►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Okay,
good
morning,
everyone
it's
10
o'clock,
so
we're
going
to
start
the
meeting
this
morning.
I
would
like
to
start
by
welcoming
everyone
here.
Hopefully,
we'll
have
a
very
interesting
discussion.
Today,
we've
got
for
the
first
time.
We've
got
a
zoom
contributor
to
the
board,
so
please
bear
with
rob,
as
as
we
try
and
manage
that
technology.
A
If
you
want
to
speak
and
you're
on
zoom,
please
raise
your
virtual
hand
rather
than
just
coming
in,
so
we
can
try
and
keep
some
order.
Today's
meeting
has
been
streamed,
live
on
youtube
as
normal.
If
you're
watching
live,
you
can
find
the
meeting
papers
that
we're
all
looking
at
on
the
council's
website.
I
just
usually
put
it
into
a
search
engine
and
it
comes
up
pretty
quickly.
A
So,
let's
start
with
introductions,
if
that's
okay,
so
I'm
councillor
andrew
scopes,
I
represent
the
beast
and
holbeck
ward
and
I'm
the
chair
of
this
board
we'll
go
this
way.
Please.
F
Good
morning,
I'm
councillor
denise
reagan
from
birmingham
richmond
hill,
I'm
here
as
the
visitor
from
the
health,
housing
and
environmental.
H
K
I'm
ed
walton
business
officer,
waste
contracts.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
and
thank
you
for
the
guests
for
taking
the
time
to
join
the
meeting
here
today.
We've
got
lots
of
people
here
to
speak
about
the
joint
inquiry
which
I'm
personally
very
interested
in.
We
just
need
to
run
through
some
sort
of
business
as
usual
items
and
then
we'll
come
to
that
item
as
the
main
item.
So
if
I
pass
over
to
debbie.
A
I
think
we're
just
getting
some
noise
from
the
zoom
cool,
but
if,
if
you
guys
just
meet
yourself
for
a
minute
and
we'll
we'll
bring
you
in
in
a
minute,
okay,
thank
you.
Okay,
debbie.
B
B
Under
gender
item
4,
could
I
ask
members
to
declare
disclose
any
declarations
of
interest
I'll
take
silence,
as
there
are
none
under
gender
item?
Five
apologies
have
been
received
from
councillors,
hesselwood
firth
and
chapman.
Councillor
jenkins
is
substitute
for
council
hesselwood.
Councillor
wadsworth
is
substitute
for
councillor
firth
and
councillor
hart
brooke
is
substitute
for
councillor
chapman.
B
We
also
have
councillors
reagan
and
councillor.
Barry
anderson
was
due
to
attend
for
this
item.
Item
seven,
that's
it!
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
A
A
No,
we
can't
hear
you
very
well,
so
I'm
going
to
move
on
for
the
moment
I'll
turn
my
microphone
off
and
let
you
try
speaking
again.
A
No,
it's
it's!
It's
not
not
working
at
the
moment,
but
we'll
we'll
move
on.
Okay,
so
gonna
start
move
on
to
the
minutes
that
doesn't
look
like
they're
on
we'll
move
on
to
the
minutes
from
the
last
meeting.
Can
I
firstly
take
any
matters
of
accuracy
in
the
minutes.
A
Take
those
is
agreed,
I'm
going
to
pass
to
rob
to
run
through
mata's
horizon.
J
J
Just
just
briefly
conscious
to
people
in
room
for
the
substantive
item:
seven
minute.
Twenty
bottoms
have
been
interested
in
a
clue:
inclusion
of
a
recent
meeting
september
october
just
to
update
on
dancing
that
is
coming
back
in
january,
with
representation
from
staff
networks
to
attend
the
board
and
provide
evidence
to
us
minute
21,
which
related
to
the
leads
2023.
J
Additional
information
should
have
been
sent
to
members,
so
that
should
be
with
you
and
please
get
back
to
me
with
any
questions
on
that
minute,
25,
which
related
to
devolution
and
thoughts
of
members
wanting
to
bring
that
item
back
to
the
to
this
board.
This
year,
the
chair
and
I
are
discussing
that
with
a
view
to
planning
into
our
work
program
and
then
on
the
same
minute.
J
The
working
group
on
the
13th
of
december
is
has
been
expanded
to
take
account
of
discussion
that
we
had
on
the
work
program
last
time
to
include
an
additional
item.
We
should
hopefully
free
up
the
workload
a
little
bit
of
the
board.
As
I
know,
members
were
a
bit
concerned
about
it
being
quite
quite
full
on
at
the
minute,
so
that
hopefully
should
spread
the
work
out
a
bit
and
create
more
time
for
us
to
look
at
issues
in
more
detail.
I
think
that's
it.
Thank
you.
Chad.
A
A
L
Good
morning,
everybody
we've
been
asked
to
come
today
to
talk
about
the
key
contracts
within
waste
management
myself
from
philip
turpin.
We
represent
the
biolia
contract
and
ed
and
rosie,
look
after
the
rest
of
the
extensive
range
of
contracts
that
we
have
so
I'll
talk
through
the
residual
pfi
contract.
First
of
all,.
I
L
L
In
addition
to
the
key
targets,
there
are
an
extensive
performance
mechanism
regime
that
covers
all
aspects
of
the
service
and
which
the
contract
management
team
continues
to
continuously
monitor
against.
To
ensure
day-to-day
service
performance
standards
and
service
expectations
are
achieved,
if
not
achieved
the
relevant
association.
L
L
The
only
solution
for
persistent
breach
of
this
key
target
under
the
contract
was
termination,
but
all
parties
considered
that
this
was
was
an
otherwise
successful
contract.
Delivering
many
other
benefits
and
the
contracts
work
hard
to
resolve
the
recycling
problems.
They
increase
the
shifts
on
the
mechanical
pre-treatment
from
two
to
three
a
day.
L
L
L
Whilst
this
can't
be
counted
towards
our
recycling
targets
in
england,
as
it
is
in
other
countries
such
as
wales
and
rest
of
europe,
it
involves
further
extraction
of
post
incineration
metals.
The
bottom
ash,
which
is
approximately
23
of
the
input
tonnage,
is
also
recycled
and
used
in
the
construction
industry,
and
the
fly
ash
is
also
beneficially
used
for
neutralization
of
industrial
assets.
L
L
The
the
facility
offers
a
range
of
other
benefits.
It
supplies
11
up
to
11
megawatts
of
electricity
to
the
national
grid
and
the
newest
and
most
significant
introduction
from
an
environmental
perspective
is
that
it
provides
heat
to
the
council's
district
heating
network
for
each
megawatt
of
electricity.
If
converted
to
heat,
the
efficiency
is
multiplied
by
a
factor
of
five,
so
this
really
does
improve
the
enviro
environmental
performance
of
the
plant.
L
L
This
also
helps
to
provide
the
council's
key
messages
on
recycling
as
well.
The
contract
management
team
are
supported
by
defer
in
all
aspects
of
contract,
monitoring
and
change.
There
are
dedicated
monthly
meetings
with
an
appointed
transactor
and
they
host
quarterly
networking
meetings
for
all
council
pfi
contract
management
teams
and
periodically
offer
waste
specific
contract
management
training.
L
The
facility
and
contract
have
fundamentally
changed
the
way
that
leed
city
council
deals
with
residual
waste.
It
provides
a
modern,
safe,
efficient
facility
of
the
collection
service
has
improved
our
environmental
performance
as
a
whole.
Saving
approximately
forty
thousand
tons
of
carbon
per
year
when
compared
to
landfill,
which
is
the
equivalent
of
taking
nineteen
19
500
cars
off
the
road.
It
generates
up
to
11
megawatts
of
electricity,
which
is
enough
to
power,
22
000
homes
and
now
provides
heat
to
the
district
heating
network,
which
adds
further
carbon
benefits.
L
K
Right
so
around
26
rcv
vehicles
are
tips
per
day,
roughly
equating
to
41
000
tons
yearly
http
martins
operate
state-of-the-art
material
recycling
facility.
Parkside
learning
leads
impression
on
that,
so
the
contract
was
originally
let
in
2013..
K
The
current
contract
ends
november
2023.
We
extended
the
contract
this
this
time
using
the
public
contracts
regulation
72.
the
premise
being.
It's
currently
unclear
on
the
requirements
of
the
council
arising
from
the
environment
bill,
it's
unknown
the
potential
effects
from
the
deposit
return
scheme
and
extended
producers,
responsibility
and
also
funding
opportunities
from
the
government.
K
It
consists
of
a
processing
cost
it's
charged
per
ton
for
all
the
mixed
material
delivered
and
the
council
is
guaranteed
to
receive
at
least
market
rate
for
the
these
materials.
Any
material
sales
above
market
value
is
split,
50
50
between
the
council
and
hw
martin,
the
cost
and
the
income
is
offset
against
each
other
and
either
generates
a
cost
or
income
to
the
council,
depending
on
the
strength
of
the
markets.
K
So
due
to
the
volatile
and
international
nature
of
the
recyclable
material
market,
it's
it's
heavily
reliant
on
factors
such
as
demand.
Packaging
recovery
notes,
capacity,
oil
virgin
material
prices,
transport
costs,
international
tariffs,
all
effect,
these
material
prices,
so
the
mechanism
is,
is
current,
providing
a
net
income
to
the
council
and
we're
currently
300
000
under
year-to-date
budget
for
the
service.
K
K
B
And
the
process
at
martin's
itself,
it's
a
series
of
separate
processes
that
take
out
individual
materials
and
I
won't
go
through
them
in
too
much
detail.
But
they
include
things
like
the
trommel,
a
magnet,
an
eddy
current
and
two
picking
cabins.
B
And
this
is
the
main
picking
cabin
and
it
shows
you
how
important
the
workforce
are
at
martin's
because
they
there's
two
conveyor
belts
going
through
there
there's
paper
on
one
conveyor
and
so
the
staff
there
are
picking
out
anything.
That's
not
paper
on
the
other
conveyor
belt,
there's
a
mixture
of
material,
so
they're,
picking
out
bottles,
waste,
aluminium
cans,
and
then
the
mixed
paper
continues
through
the
cabin
and
that
picture
just
shows
you.
The
quality
of
the
paper
that
comes
out
of
the
process.
B
B
In
terms
of
the
actual
contract
martin's
report
monthly
to
us
about,
you
know
the
figures
and
that
helps
us
to
understand
the
tons
and
the
pricing
and
the
performance
of
our
green
bin
material
and
and
then
because
of
the
importance
to
the
council
of
the
contract.
It's
very
carefully
monitored
and
managed
by
by
our
team,
and
we
work
closely
with
martin's
to
understand
all
aspects
of
the
contract.
B
Martins
are
also
audited
by
our
team
on
a
six
monthly
basis
through
due
diligence
audits,
so
they'll
also
audit
their
own
contractors,
and
then
we
audit,
marketings
and
and
that's
to
ensure
compliance
both
with
the
contract
and
with
legislation.
So
it
is,
it
is
very
carefully
monitored.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
I
don't
know
if
hw
martin's
want
to
make
any
comments
at
this
point.
J
Morning,
if
I
I'll
briefly
just
I
won't,
I
won't
waste
anybody's
time.
Just
very
briefly.
H.W
martin
is
part
of
the
martin
group
accompanist,
which
was
established
in
1976.
J
myself,
and
one
of
the
directors
established
things
to
be
martin
waste,
which
is
not
a
great
name,
but
it's
we're
all
about
recyclables.
Basically,
in
1999,
our
clients
are
largely
99
local
authorities,
and
we,
if
I
described
what
we
do,
we
extract
value
recyclable
material
from
waste.
We
do
that
in
two
main
forms.
J
We
manage
household
waste
recycling
centres
which
we
do
for
eight
local
authorities
and
we
manage
through
two
murphs
material
recycling
facilities,
one
based
in
leeds
and
one
based
in
derbyshire
over
200
000
tons
annually
for
13
local
authorities,
and
that's
very
very
briefly
what
h.w
martin
does.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
I
don't
know
if
violia
want
to
try
and
speak
again.
G
So
sorry
about
earlier
an
external
speaker
on
my
the
computer,
it's
donald
mcfail
here
I
am
the
chief
operating
officer
for
violia
uk's
treatment
business.
I
look
after
all,
the
pfi
contracts
and
I'm
with
scott
francis
who's,
the
yeah.
J
G
I
think
we'd
like
to
see
that
we
we
like
we're
particularly
we're,
probably
proud
of
the
the
site.
It
leads.
It's
been
a
challenge
when
we
signed
the
contract,
some
of
the
pre
sorting
materials
was
tricky.
We
tried
to
overcome
ways
of
doing
it,
but
just
expanding
on
the
point
that
amanda
made
that
the
market
changed
as
well.
G
So
some
of
the
materials
we
were
pulling
out
for
potential
recycling
and,
unlike
the
the
martin's
plan
we
were
taking
residual
waste
and
trying
to
get
recyclers
out,
the
the
the
martin
plant
is
obviously
doing
recycling
farms
specifically
for
recycling
for
recycling,
so
the
material
we're
looking
at
is
what's
in
your
black
bin
bag,
so
we're
comfortable.
G
We
can
get
over
two
percent
recycling,
but
the
aim
was
obviously
get
higher,
but
you
may
have
read
in
the
press
the
lower
grade
recyclers
that
you
pull
out,
it's
very
restrictive
of
who
will
take
it
now
compared
to
maybe
when
the
contract
was
signed,
there
was
a
wider
range
of
markets.
The
the
even
leaving
the
uk
is
difficult
and
tricky.
G
Now
so,
despite
further
investment
in
capital
and
different
processes,
the
quality
just
wasn't
good
enough
to
get
to
a
final
end
user
who
wanted
to
reuse
the
material
which
is
the
key
part
of
the
recycling.
G
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Do
you
want
to
comment
on
anything
around
the
the
carbon
impact
of
our
strategy.
M
Not
specifically,
I
suppose
one
thing
just
for
a
government
level
is
the
fact
that
we
measure
how
we're
performing
on
tonnage
and
that
is
really
contradictory
to
the
carbon
impact.
And
just
to
give
you
an
example.
If
we
look
at
what
we
do
on
textiles-
and
let
me
just
have
a
look
at
my
figures.
So
textiles
make
up
three
percent
of
our
black
bin
but
would
make
up
30
of
the
carbon.
M
And
so
I
know
we're
going
to
be
driven
by
what
the
government
strategy
says.
But
I
think
it's
interesting
to
keep
coming
back
to
that,
and
especially
when
we're
talking
at
a
national
level
to
actually
understand
what
the
carbon
impact
is
and
where
we're
really
focusing
our
attention
and-
and
that
goes
through.
Lots
of
I've-
just
pulled
that
out
as
one
of
the
really
kind
of
clear
examples.
But
that
is
true
across
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we're
doing
and
and
also
that,
focus
on
reuse
and
what
we've
seen.
People
like.
M
Zero
waste
leads
doing
across
the
city
and
if
you
compare
the
carbon
impact
of
actually
reusing
the
material
and
again
just
looking
at
the
figure,
you
go
with
textiles.
If
we
recycle
it,
we
save
6000
kilograms
of
carbon.
If
we
were
to
reuse
it,
we
saved
21
000
kilograms.
So
it's
just.
I
think
it's
really
important
to
keep
coming
back
to
those
figures
and
the
relative
impact,
and
so
I'm
happy
to
sort
of
answer
specific
questions.
I've
got
a
list
of
different
materials
and
things
if
people
have
questions
so.
A
Thank
you
be
good
if
you
could
circulate
that
list
to
the
rob
afterwards
for
the
whole
board,
I
think,
whilst
clearly
we
are,
we
have
to
meet
government
requirements.
We
should
still
be
driven
given
our
climate
emergency
on
the
carbon
impact.
John,
do
you
want
to
comment
at
all
at
this
stage
or.
N
Not
particularly,
but
just
to
pick
up
on
polly's
point
there
that
that
that's
really
where
we
want
to
work
closely
together
and
looking
at
what
we
do
in
the
future,
trying
to
strike
that
balance
between
what
the
government's
going
to
require
us
legally,
because
that's
obviously
going
to
be
a
massive
driver
for
us.
We've
got
legal
commitment
in
the
future,
perhaps
to
collect
food
or
glass
and
or
glass,
but,
as
polly
says
some
of
the
other
materials.
Perhaps
we
don't
focus
on
as
much
now
such
as
textiles.
N
A
A
Thank
you
very
much,
councilman
fig
okay.
So
unless
anyone
I've
missed
anyone
I'll
open
it
up
for
questions,
I
can't
see
anyone
indicating
straight
away.
So
I'll
start
my
my
questions
so
the
first.
The
first
question
is
about
h.w
martin,
and
you
said
that
we
get
when
prices
are
above
market
rate.
We
split
it
50
50..
I
don't
really
understand
how
anything
can
be
above
market
rate,
because
surely
market
rate
is
defined
by
what
the
market
will
pay
for
it.
J
The
the
mechanism,
which
is
which
is
quite
common,
which
was
something
that
was
established
with
ladies
and
hwe
martin
at
the
beginning
of
this
arrangement
in
2013,
is
something
that's
been
adopted
throughout
the
country.
So
I've
actually
seen
my
own
mechanisms
come
back
to
me
and
lots
of
different
guys
as
today
and
the
the
mid
when
we
talk
about
the
mid
value
each
month,
there
are
two
industry
publications
which
are
commonly
used,
one
called
materials.
J
We
cite
them
weekly
and
one
called
let's
recital
those
those
journals
have
the
sales
figures
across
the
country
for
the
various
grades
and
material.
So
what
we
through
this
mechanism,
we
guarantee
the
midpoint
of
those
those
prices
and
any
any
uplift
or
anything
we
sell
above
that
we
share
equally
with
the
council.
J
A
Thank
you
very
much,
and
just
while
you're
talking
just
I'd
like
to
know
a
bit
more
about
the
the
glass
being
in
the
same
containers,
because
I
think
you'll
be
aware
that
other
authorities
put
glass
with
their
general
recycling.
A
And
we
don't
and
I'd
be
really
interested
in
your
take
on
that
and
how
that
would
affect
other
recycling
that
you
do.
J
J
A
J
The
the
most
extra
or
the
the
broadest
mix
is
a
full
mix
that
we
call
with
glasses,
basically
just
about
everything
you
could
put
in
the
container
of
the
curb
and
then
presented
to
a
facility.
We
we
have
our
own
glass
plant,
so
we
extract
glass
ourselves
at
leads.
We
don't
currently
take
that
into
the
mix
and
it's
something
that
we've
spoken
to
leeds
a
few
times
about,
and
it
it
is
something
we
could
talk
to
the
councils
again
about
it.
J
Does
it
will
increase
the
cost
of
processing
and
what
you
tend
to
find
is.
If
you
include
glass
products
in
the
full
mix,
you
you
devalue,
some
of
the
other
grades,
material
being
the
fibrous
gates.
So
there
are
different
grades
of
fiber
in
what
we
call
okay,
ls,
which
is
cardboard
mixed
paper,
different
grades
and
mixed
papers,
news
and
pams
they're,
all
they're,
all
a
variety
of
paper,
the
degree
segregation
of
that
isn't
the
isn't,
the
fines,
which
has
been
a
which
is
a
lot
of
problems
for
other
other
operators.
J
It's
we're
very
good
at
getting
the
glass
finds
out
the
mix.
It's
the
fact
that
you
get
moisture
and
food
which
what
that
invariably
means
is
when
you
include
glass,
you
tend
to
get
a
more
contamination
on
material
that
would
otherwise
be
recovered,
and
we
can
do
that
and
john
or
ed
may
want
to
talk
about
the
fact
we
have
we've
discussed
this
and
we've
we've
looked
at
it
previously.
J
Some
of
some
of
the
issues
historically
been
on
the
fact
that
the
the
extended
periods
have
meant
that
the
level
investment
is
is
something
that
we
have
to
look
at,
but
it's
something,
but
it
is
a.
It
is
an
option
that
we
were
quite
happy
to
discuss
again.
A
Thank
you.
I
don't
know
if
you've
looked
at
this
in
terms
of
the
carbon
impact
in
terms
of
because
my
assumption
is,
if
we
did
it
at
kerbside,
we
would
recycle
more
glass
and
leads
we
may
or
may
not
depending
on
a
number
of
factors.
I
guess:
does
the
carbon
impact
reduce
if
you
have
extra
glass
in
your
in
the
mix,
or
maybe
I
asked
polly,
I
don't
know.
M
You
might
be
stretching
my
level
of
knowledge
on
that
one.
I
know
what
the
carbon
impact
is
if
we
manage
to
recycle
glass,
not
specifically,
if
you're
taking
it
in
as
like
mixed
up
with
other
materials
as
opposed
to
independently
collected,
and
so
I
couldn't
answer
that.
A
I'm
going
to
bring
in
counselor
heartbroken,
I
assume
it's
on
this
point.
Counselor.
I
For
the
authorities,
where
you
do
recycle
glass,
obviously
you've
got
mixed
colors
in
there
to
just
does
the
sorting,
because
I
know
that
glass
is
very
is
valued.
You
know,
obviously
clear
glass
commands
a
much
bigger
premium
than
brown
or
brown
or
green
glass.
Does
your
facility
enable
you
to
sort
of
do
optical
sorting
to
filter
that
out.
J
We
we
don't
currently
know
I
mean,
I
think
it's
worth
it's
worth
just
mentioning
two
things
leeds.
As
for
the
best
of
my
logic,
knowledge
has
got
one
of
the
broadest
range
of
bring
bank
locations
in
the
country
for
the
reception
of
glass,
and
I
have
I've
looked
at
the
some
of
the
tonnages
with
with
some
of
the
officers
myself
and
I've
looked
at
some
of
our
other
contracts
of
what
is
recovered
or
what
you'd
expect
to
recover.
J
In
addition
to
what's
presently
done
and
as
a
city
you're
doing
very
well
at
recovering
a
large
amount
of
glass
as
soon
as
you
as
soon
as
you
put
glass
with
mixed
all
the
mixed
materials,
you
handle
that
glass
more
frequently
each
time
you
handle
the
glass
it
breaks
up
into
more
fragments.
J
If
it's
above
a
certain
size,
it
can
be
color
sorted
quite
easily,
and
I
won't
bore
you
with
technology,
but
the
more
more
frequently
it's
handled,
the
finer
it
gets
and
the
opportunity
to
colour
sort.
I
mean,
makes
it
more
difficult
as
well.
J
So
I
think
it's
it
would
be
an
interesting
piece
of
work
to
look
at
if
you
included
that,
within
your
own
container,
at
the
curb
at
the
moment,
actually
how
much
better
that
would
be
than
what
you're
currently
doing,
excluding
the
fact
that
the
cost
there
to
collect
it
at
the
bring
banks.
I
I
just
couldn't,
would
there
be
a
because
obviously
different
houses
may
create
different
different
colors
of
glass?
Do
you
think,
possibly
there
might
be
an
argument
for
doing
a
commingled
collection
of
brown
and
green
glass,
but
then
retaining
essentially
deposited
point
of
a
separate,
clear
glass.
Is
that
something
that
you
think
could
potentially
be
an
option.
J
It's
possible
and
I
get
the
point
that
you're
looking
at
the
values
of
the
material
and
it's
I
I
will.
I
would
personally
have
the
full
mix
available
if
it
was
something
we're
going
to
do
still
in
bring
banks.
I
would
keep
the
full
range
because
of
the
economics
and
the
under
carbon
footprint
fetching
those
material
types
and
people
are
less
likely,
I
think,
to
deposit
to
go
to
a
location,
to
deposit
one
type
of
glass.
I
think
they,
like,
generally
speaking,
we
like
recycling
to
be
easy
and
I
think
that's
the
key
thing.
E
E
Thank
you
a
couple
of
questions
in
about
the
the
roof
first,
just
around
first,
how
that
two
percent
target
was
set
because,
obviously,
last
year
it
was
achieved
at
2.3
percent,
obviously
there's
a
balance
to
be
set
by
setting
a
target
that
that
gets
the
most
out
of
the
contract,
whilst
also
being
achievable
and
a
useful
target.
So
I'd
I'd
just
like
to
understand
how
that
two
percent
was
set
out
and
and
whether
we
were
seeking
to
set
the
best
possible
target
for
free
use
to
those
materials.
E
The
second
question
on
the
roof
is
around
the
capacity.
So
at
the
moment
we
as
a
city
council,
the
only
people
using
that
for
waste,
and
how
far
do
we
get
in
terms
of
the
capacity
of
the
waste
it
could
handle
and
and
therefore
have
we
looked
at
whether
that
services
could
be
available
to
others
or
or
or
shared
across
different
authorities,
etc.
So
that's
that's
my
questions
on
the
roof.
First,
if
that's
all
right.
L
Hello
in
terms
of
the
capacity
this
this
last
12
months
or
18
months,
really
we've
seen
a
huge
increase
in
residual
waste
throughout
the
pandemic
and
last
year
that
that
figure
I
quoted
the
190
000
that
we
delivered
was
pretty
much
there's
different
capacities
at
the
roof
and
scott.
L
If
you
want
to
jump
in,
please
do,
but
the
actual
facility
can
accept
214
000
tons
under
its
permit,
but
it
can't
process
that
amount
of
waste
they
have
actually,
in
the
last
12
months,
increased
the
permit
of
the
erf
facility
to
189
950.
Is
it
scott.
L
Which
you
know
we
had
to
do
that
because
of
our
tonnage
was
so
high
during
during
that
first
year
of
the
pandemic,
and
obviously
that
what
you
can
accept
at
the
front-
and
you
know
you
have
to
take
out
elements
of
that-
to
be
able
to
to
process
so
I
mean
in
theory,
viola
could
take
214
000
and
send
some
out
for
processing
elsewhere.
L
So
that's
that's
the
sort
of
capacity
of
of
the
burner
now
and
the
main
main
facility
in
terms
of
the
two
percent.
I
think
when
we
were
looking
to
renegotiate
that
target,
we
were
looking
really
at
what
materials
we
could
find
sustainable
markets
for,
and
it
was
metals
and
and
the
makeup
of
the
the
composition
of
the
the
waste
and
the
we
call
it
the
efficiency
of
the
machinery.
L
The
two
percent
target
was
set
on
that
basis
that
it
would
be
achievable
because
we
didn't
want
to
continually
end
up
in
in
the
position
where
we
were
having
to
revisit
the
target
again
and
as
the
you
know,
recycling
performance
has
shown
this.
This
last
year,
we've
achieved
over
that
this
year,
2.3,
I
think,
was
quoted
on
the
slide.
So
it
is
it's
it's
at
that
level.
L
G
Because,
though,
as
we're
just
mentioning
about
the
the
capacities,
there's
obviously
a
a
rate
per
hour
that
we
can
burn
material
on,
but
the
availability
is
higher
than
maybe
was
originally
anticipated,
and
because
of
that,
that's
why
we
have
a
more
a
higher
theoretical
overall
capacity.
That
would
be
the
one
point
I
would
make.
I
think
another
one
is
that
the
leads
leads
get
priority
in
terms
of
the
tonnage
that
comes
to
the
site
at
the
moment.
G
E
He
said
that
two
percent
target
was
temporary
and,
and
is
that
for
seven
years,
did
you
say
at
the
end
of
that
we'll
be
looking
at
the
whole
target
again
to
see
whether
there's
a
fuller
achievement
that
we
can
get
out
of
other
materials
again
or
purely
just
looking
at
the
metals
again.
L
E
Thank
you.
I've
got
a
few,
I
guess,
based
on
just
understanding
the
overall
strategy
and
where
we
go
with
the
carbon
impact
as
well
as
the
cost.
So
those
examples
probably
be
really
useful,
because
I
really
like
examples
like
that
of
where
there's
something
that
maybe
has
been
missed,
that
could
have
a
huge
impact
that
that
people
generally
aren't
aware
of.
E
First,
I'm
aware,
when
we're
looking
at
waste,
there's
a
balance
on
on
how
much
we
ask
people
to
separate
it.
So
at
the
moment
we
do
the
one
green
bin,
as
opposed
to
many
others,
and
I
think
that's
based
on
a
balance
of
how
much
we
think
can
be
reused.
I
wonder
if
somebody
can
just
elaborate
on
the
thinking
around
the
one
green
bin
rather
than
separating
into
different
ones.
E
E
And
I
just
wonder
whether
there's
any
of
that
consideration
as
taken
into
what
we
put
in
the
single
green
bin
rather
than
others,
because
obviously,
if
we've
got
the
the
roof
as
an
option
which
some
other
local
authorities
won't
have,
then
there
may
be
some
materials
that
are
much
better
to
put
in
get
out
of
the
chain.
You're,
not
creating
new
plastic
to
create
a
tub
with
it
and
then
remove
it
entirely.
E
And
I
just
wondered
whether
there's
some
thoughts
over
over
those,
because
I
think
sometimes
for
for
people
putting
the
material
in
their
bin
they're.
Quite
often
thinking.
Why
are
not
putting
this
in
the
recycling
bin
because
it's
some
type
of
plastic,
but
actually
that
might
not
be
the
the.
I
guess.
Carbon
efficiency
is
what
I'm
thinking
of
mainly
there,
really
the
most
carbon
efficient
way
to
do,
and
then
you
touched
on
polly
really
that
the
main
aim
of
where
we
have
to
get
to,
which
is
the
reduce,
reuse
and
recycle.
E
Obviously,
what
we're
looking
at
here
is
the
end
of
the
waste
strategy.
What
we
deal
with
with
what's
left-
and
I
just
wondered:
what's
our
work
in
terms
of
trying
to
reduce
the
amount
that
ever
gets
into
a
bin
in
the
first
place,
because
that's
probably
the
the
main
aim
of
where
we're
trying
to
get
to,
and
just
what
the
council's
doing
around
that.
N
John
yep
yeah
chef,
I'll,
try
and
pick
up
most
of
those
points
and,
if
any
other
colleagues
want
to
to
add
to
what
I
say,
please
do
focusing
mainly
on
the
main
part
of
the
questions
around
the
green
bin
and
why
we
currently
have
the
the
one
single
bin
and
the
logic
for
that.
I
think
the
first
point
I'd
make.
Is
we
really
suppose
I
would
argue?
We
have
two
bins.
We
have
the
brown
bin
and
the
green
bin
in
terms
of
the
recycle
material
we
collect
in
leads
and
they're.
N
Although
we're
not
really
talking
about
the
brown
bin
much
today,
I
don't
think
we
need
to
recognize
the
fact
that
that
does
count
towards
leads
recycling
targets
and
that's
how
we've
been
measured
and
the
targets
the
government
has
set
over
the
last
few
years.
That
included
the
garden
waste.
So
leeds
had
made
a
decision
a
few
years
ago
to
to
invest
in
a
garden
bin
service
collection
service
and
has
continued
that
investment,
and
currently
leeds,
is
the
largest
collection
of
garden
waste
in
the
uk
united
kingdom
in
terms
of
households.
N
We
offer
to
it
too,
and
it's
one
of
the
main
reasons
of
that
is.
We
continue
to
make
it
free,
so
we've
invested
in
that
service
over
a
number
of
years
and,
of
course,
when
you
invest
in
a
service
like
that,
and
you
forgo
the
income
there,
it
restricts
you
to
degree
on
the
other
options
that
you
might
be
able
to
bring
forward
so
that
this
was
made
a
number
of
years
ago.
In
terms
of
that
investment
and
the
green
bin
was
a
seen
as
the
way
forward
for
recycling
and
leads.
N
I
think
the
point
I'd
make
is
that,
in
terms
of,
I
think
it's
been
said,
a
couple
of
times
already,
that
the
green
bin
and
lee's
does
take
a
huge
range
of
materials
and
as
h.w
martin's
commented
on,
the
number
of
materials
increased
the
last
couple
years,
particularly
in
terms
of
plastics.
The
pot
stops
and
trays
that
we
take
in
the
green
bin.
So
really
in
terms
of
the
three
items
that
aren't
in
the
green
bin
and
leads.
It
comes
down
to
food
glass
and
there's
polly's
highlighted
as
well.
N
N
They
have
an
additional
bin
to
take
those
materials
through
a
wide
variety
of
ways
that
that's
done
and
what
I
think
the
appendix
seven
appendix
the
appendix
number
it
was
sorry
that
was
sent
out
late,
gives
you
examples
of
the
different
councils,
local
to
leeds
and
all
sorts
of
the
core
cities,
and
you
can
see
from
that.
N
N
N
So
that's
clearly
to
us
the
the
direction
of
travel
government
to
focus
on
initially,
so
that
that's
kind
of
the
background
really
so
when
we
have
cons
consulted
and
and
spoken
to
the
environmental
security
board
in
the
past
two
or
three
years
ago,
we
presented
some
work
that
you
know
we
had
done
a
consultancy
that
we'd
employed
through
rap,
which
is
again
an
environmental
consensus,
the
government
use
and
they
looked
at
various
different
options
and
models
that
that
could
be
applied
in
the
city
likely.
N
So
I
think
it
was
about
15
or
so
different,
different
models
of
collection
with
different
permutations
of
bins
and
all
of
them
really
at
the
end
of
the
day,
if
we
were
to
include,
if
we
wanted
to
include
food
and
glass,
then
you
were
looking
at
an
extra
bin
of
some
description,
whether
that
meant
another
green
bin,
probably
colored
blue
or
another
color.
N
That
would
then
separate
out
the
recyclable
waste
into
what
we
probably
call
the
fabrics,
the
softer
stuff
and
the
harder
stuff,
the
plastics
class,
etc,
to
deal
with
some
of
the
issues
that's
being
raised
around
cross-contamination,
whatever
it
whatever
it
would
be,
it
would
mean
another
being
on
top
of
the
green
bean
and
the
brown
bin
and
the
black
bin,
and
there
was
certainly
a
feeling
that
we
got
at
the
time.
This
is
talking
about
three
or
four
years
ago.
N
I
think,
when
we
consulted
and
around
that-
and
there
was
the
thing
we
certainly
got
from
members-
was-
there-
was
a
there-
wasn't
an
appetite
at
that
time
for
an
extra
bin,
but
there
are
the
options
that
we
continue
to
look
at.
We
we
sat
on
our
own
way
strategy.
The
reason
we
are
waiting
is
because
that
we
need
to
understand
from
the
government,
as
all
councils
do,
what
the
resource
waste
strategy
will
require.
N
Legally
offers
and
and
class
is
a
classic
case
of
that
that
the
resource
waste
strategy
both
sets
out
that
glass
that
ambition,
the
glass
will
become
a
legal
requirement
to
collect
from
the
curb
side,
but
also
talks
about
introducing
a
deposit
return
scheme
for
the
country,
quoting
sort
of
similar
successes
on
the
continent
and
other
places.
N
But
we
need
some
clarity
on
that,
because
if
the
deposit
return
scheme
was
rolled
out
nationally,
that
was
successful,
then,
which
is
basically
a
little
bit
like
the
old
20p,
whatever
value
would
attach
to
a
bottle
that
could
be
then
redeemed
by
customers,
then
arguably
that
would
would
render
the
collection
of
glass
at
the
curbside
pointless
and
certainly
not
necessary.
So
we
do
need
some
clarity
on
that
deciding
on
the
best
way
forward.
Therefore,
how
we,
if
we
are
legally
required
to
class
how
we
collect,
is
it
better
in
a
separate
bin?
N
Is
it
better
collected
actually
separately
as
class?
So
that's
the
the
history.
If,
if
you
like
that,
I
hope
it's
helpful.
What's
the
final
point,
council.
E
I
think
I
think
that
it's
more
the
one
around
it
whether
there
were
materials
that
are
better
to
recover
as
energy
rather
than
being
in
the
green
bin.
So
I
guess
that's
more
motor
poly
in
yourself
and
then
what
we're
focusing
around
the
reduce
we
use,
recycle
elements
of
it
so
trying
to
get
out
of
the
stream
in
the
in
the
first
place.
N
Yeah
I'll
answer
the
last
one.
First,
then,
if
anyone
else
can
chip
in
with
the
energy
answer,
please
do
yeah,
but
we've
worked
over
a
number
of
years
now
at
trying
to
promote
the
the
the
reuse
and
reduce
agenda,
particularly
as
well
as
obviously
deliver
a
service
that
the
gust
was
released
through
the
curb
side.
So
examples
of
that
really
closely.
The
police
mentioned
that
zero
waste
leads,
for
example,
a
third
sector
organization
to
work.
N
Initiatives
can
be
supported
so,
for
example,
there's
a
really
successful
school,
uniform
reuse
campaign
and
and
underway
at
the
moment
in
leeds,
which
has
worked
really
well
in
las
vega,
supported
by
the
zero
waste
leads
and
others,
and
that's
worked
really
well
and
that
picks
up
on
police,
pointing
around
fabrics
and
textiles.
N
Particularly
we've
worked.
We
support
a
number
of
reuse
organizations,
collecting
furniture
across
the
city
and
I've
done
for
a
number
of
years
and
that's
what's
really
successfully
complementing
our
own
bulky
collection
service
and
those
that
furniture
has
been
reused,
including
in
in
some
of
the
most
needy
households
and
circumstances
across
the
city.
N
We
also
work
with
a
charity
to
operate,
to
revive
shops
in
in
our
kirchner
way,
sites
where
secondhand
and
reused
furniture
and
other
other
materials
items
are
sold
and
we
have
a
what
in
effect
is
a
profit
share
arrangement
with
those
charities
to
to
help
gain
the
council
some
income,
but
also
to
support
those
charities
work
across
the
city.
N
So
there's
some
examples
of
the
work
we
do
around
reuse.
But
what
would
be
interesting
to
see
and
again
the
the
the
I
think,
there's
there's
various
thoughts,
two
different
thoughts
on
this
is:
if,
if
food
is
introduced
as
a
way
to
collect
across
the
city
separately,
then
then
will
that
drive
down
waste
food.
N
So
there
are
examples
that
are
quoted
nationally
around
by
introducing
separate
food
collection
that
does
change
behaviors,
almost
a
shaming
factor,
I
suppose,
and
people
being
more
aware
of
the
waste
they're
producing
because
they're
actually
separating
out
and
putting
in
a
different
bin.
So
but
equally
the
arguments
to
say
well,
actually
it
can
increase
the
the
the
people's
waste
because
they
they
feel
they're
doing
some
good
and
it
doesn't
matter
so
much,
there's
so
much
waste
because
it's
going
somewhere
that's
more
directly
than
recycled
as
such.
So
again,
that's
an
area.
N
M
I'll
do
the
generic
answer
and
feel
might
be.
Phillip
might
be
able
to
be
more
specific.
So
if
you
look
at
the
rap
study,
they
talk
about
incineration,
chp,
which
is
the
energy
from
waste,
with
district
heating,
saving
30
kilograms
co2
equivalent.
What
that
won't
take
into
account
is
the
calorific
value
of
each
different
material,
so
where
you
will
have
heard
so,
plastics
will
burn
at
higher
temperature
and
produce
more
energy
versus
more
wet
materials
like
food,
so
that
that's
probably
where
that's
come
from.
M
What
I
haven't
got
is
that
that
figure
broken
down,
which
I
don't
know
there
we
go.
Can
I
just
say
on
two
other
points
so
so
on
the
glass?
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
push
really
hard
with
government
about
the
you
know
the
20p
scheme,
because
the
difference
is
about
four
and
a
half
times
between
recycling
versus
reuse.
So
you
know
we
should
be
really
pushing
for
that
as
a
city
and
and
also
just
to
say
in
terms
of
the
reduced
reuse.
M
We
also
have
our
leads
by
example,
website
and
one
of
the
messages
we
use
in
a
lot
of
our
events.
Our
green
jobs
and
skills,
our
food
event
is
about
you
know:
food
waste
for
a
country,
it'd
be
the
third
country
in
terms
of
emissions,
so
actually
getting
people
to
take
responsibility
for
what
they're
doing
working
with
people
like
fair
sha
who
actually
reuse
that
food
and
get
it
to
the
right
people.
That's
all
you
know.
We
see
them
as
a
food
poverty
charity,
but
actually
they're
really
contributing
from
a
carbon
point
of
view.
M
So
there's
lots
of
initiatives
happening,
there's
also
a
lot
of
work
going
on
with
the
fashion
industry
and
with
the
leeds
university
looking
at
how
we
make
fashion
more
of
a
responsible
industry,
and
actually
there
will
be
something
hopefully
coming
to
the
climate
emergency
advisory
committee
about
that
and
about
the
circular
economy
around
fashion.
To
start
focusing
on
that
as
a
city.
H
Just
to
quickly
add
to
what
polly
said
specifically
in
terms
of
what
is
better
to
be
incinerated
or
recycled
in
terms
of
what's
in
the
green
bins
or
black
bins.
I
suppose
it
comes
down
to
two
points,
what
the
value
of
the
material
is
and
what
the
environmental
impact
or
specific
the
carbon
impact
of
that
material
in
terms
of
recycling
or
incinerating,
and
as
paulie
mentioned
there
is
generic
information
out
there
in
terms
of
the
incineration
impact
carbon
impact
of
materials
of
generic
incinerators
with
chp.
H
Obviously,
we've
got
our
own
specific
incinerators,
its
own
technical
parameters,
and
we
are
starting
a
piece
of
work
with
the
consultancy
at
the
minute
which
is
looking
at
our
specific
technical
parameters,
and
we
should
be
able
to
have
some
information
soon
over
the
next
few
months,
which
will
specifically
say
the
carbon
impact
of
removing
a
certain
material
from
the
back
bin
to
the
green
bin
and,
looking
at
the
specific,
detailed
information
for
our
waste
streams,.
E
Sorry,
I
don't
want
to
monopolize
that.
That's
really
useful.
Thank
you
because
I
think
that
really
useful
information
when
you're
looking
at
it,
because
I
think
there's
a
lot
around.
Obviously
polly
mentioned
glass
there
and
that's
a
really
important
one,
because
it
is
even
if
you're
recycling
glass,
it's
a
high
carbon
intensive
process
to
make
it
into
another
bottle,
you're
much
better,
reusing
the
bottle
and,
in
fact,
you're,
probably
much
better
from
a
carbon
point
of
view
buying
something
not
in
glass
than
you
are
in
others.
E
So
if
you
can
get
something
in
a
tetra
pack,
that
might
in
fact
be
better
than
glass,
even
though
you
can
recycle
a
whole
bottle,
it
does
take
a
lot
of
energy
to
make
it
into
a
new
one,
and
the
revive
shops
are
really
good,
because
yet
one
person's
waste
could
be
another
person's
treasure
in
a
way
and
the
one
last
thought
that
I've
gotten-
I
don't
know
whether
it's
something
that
we
can
look
into
around
that
chair
is
when
you
go
to
the
supermarket
and
you
get
your
various
bits
home
you'll
find
that
some
yogurt
pots,
for
instance,
will
be
recyclable
and
some
just
aren't
not
that
they're,
not
types
that
we
recycle
in
leads
necessarily
because
I
think
we
do
quite
a
lot
of
the
plastic
types,
but
there
seems
to
be
no
real
onus
on
producers
to
ensure
that
their
item
is
recyclable,
and
maybe
somebody
can
add
on
that,
because
yeah,
you
can
get
two
different
types
of
margarine
or
spread
and
find
one
is
in
a
tub.
E
That's
recyclable
and
one
says
not
yet
recycled,
which
is
seeming
to
be
a
point
in
the
future
where
we
might
recycle
these,
but
I
don't
know
why
we're
just
not
creating
it
all
as
recyclable
material
at
first,
if
it's
there
and
that's
me,
don't
yeah.
Thank
you.
Apologies
for
being
monopolizing
the
meeting
somewhere.
A
No,
that's
that's
helpful
councillor
carlo.
I
understand
councillor
book
he
he
works
for
a
large
supermarket,
so
he
might
be
able
to
comment
on
that
specific
point.
I
So
yeah
in
my
day,
job
I'm
working
to
reduce
the
amount
of
plastic
that
goes
into
the
environment
and
make
what
does
go
into
the
environment
more
recent,
more
recyclable.
So
my
background
is
food
manufacturing
and
molecular
retail
the
push
yeah
I'll.
Just
answer
your
question
directly:
is
it
better
to
burn
plastic
than
to
recycle
it?
Absolutely
not
if
it
can
be
recycled
from
a
from
an
energy
recovery
facility
perspective?
They
love
plastics
because
they're
very
calorific
dense
and
they
really
help
burn
temperature.
I
So
incinerators
love
to
get
plastics
in,
however,
from
it
from
a
complete
carbon
life
cycle
perspective
burning,
something
that
could
also
be
remade
into.
Something
else
is
the
bottom
of
the
food
chain
in
terms
of
the
options
that
we
should
be
going
for
for
all
food
manufacturers
and
you're
right
to
sample
out
some
of
the
yogurt
manufacturers.
I
The
trouble
name
on
this
because
it's
public,
but
some
of
them,
are
in
a
bit
of
a
corner
to
when
it
comes
to
recycling,
because
the
yogurts
typically
use
a
lot
of
polystyrene,
which
isn't,
which
is
one
of
the
plastics
that
isn't
recycled.
Most
food
manufacturers
at
the
moment
are
working
to
go
to
what's
called
recycle
ready
specifications
which
basically
means
within
any
one
piece
of
plastic
that
goes
in
your
bin.
I
It's
pretty
much
one
type
of
plastic
that
can
either
go
down
the
polypropylene
stream
or
the
polishing
stream,
or
the
basically
the
bottle
stream.
That's
that's
the
kind
of
direction
of
travel
that
all
manufacturers
are
working
in,
so
that,
instead
of
some
of
the
mixed
types
of
plastic
that
end
up
in
the
bin,
it'll
be
more
clear
that
actually
that
can
go
in
that
and
then
the
more
increasingly
automated
sorting
processes
that
exist
can
separate
it
out,
whether
that
be
near
infrared
or
physical.
In
some
cases,
I
suppose
the
question.
I
The
question
that
I
had
because
again
the
direction
is
really
clear.
Is
that
wet
food
waste
from
a
it's
bad
to
go
into
incinerators?
Generally,
because
it's
heavy
and
before
you
can
incinerate
it
you've
got
to
drive
a
hole,
the
moisture,
so
the
amount
of
residual
energy
you
recover
from
food
waste
going
into
an
incinerator,
probably
isn't
great,
plus
you're
missing
out
on
the
opportunity
to
generate
bio
gas
from
it,
which
could
then
further
go
into
the
heating.
You
know
it
could
generate
heat
and
electricity
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
I
A
Thank
you
very
much,
counselor
I'll,
come
back
to
you
for
your
questions,
I'm
just
going
to
bring
in
the
other
people
that
came
in.
First,
that's
really
helpful.
Thank
you
appreciate
that.
Okay,
councillor
mckenna.
G
Oh
thank
you
chair.
I
think
most
of
my
questions
have
been
dealt
with,
but
I
I
have
one
or
two.
Thanks
to
john,
I
was
gonna
raise
food
waste
and
glass
obviously
has
been
exhausted
around
the
table
and
it's
certainly
useful
to
know
the
direction
of
travel
from
john,
but
I
notice
that
we're
one
of
the
two
local
authorities
that
don't
charge
for
waste
and
I
think
that's
a
cause
to
be
celebrated.
G
Maybe
it's
a
question
to
you.
James.
Is
that
likely
to
change
in
the
budget,
giving
how
tight
it
is
in
the
next
few
years
and
finally,
just
another
question:
it's
straightforward
I'll
get
out
of
the
way,
sorry
for
putting
you
on
your
spot,
but
that's
what
you're
here.
For
the
other
thing,
I've
noticed
polystyrene
was
mentioned
on
yoga
pots
and
I
noticed
wakefield
seem
to
deal
with
it
and
recycle
polystyrene.
G
If
you're
like
me,
then
your
partner
has
daily
deliveries
of
amazon
and
it
comes
with
huge
amounts
of
packaging
lots
of
polystyrene.
She
take,
she
actually
started
knitting
during
the
lockdown.
She's
got
become
quite
good
at
it,
and
sometimes
we
get
one
ball
of
wool
and
you
just
would
not
believe
the
package
is
like
that.
You
know,
but,
as
I
say,
there's
an
awful
lot
of
polystyrene
that
I
quite
frankly,
I
don't
know
what
to
do
with
it.
It
seems
a
waste
putter
in
the
black
bin.
G
You
know
on
the
if
you
get
a
new
washing
machine
or
a
new
television
or
anything
you'll
all
know
what
the
problem
is,
but
if
one
authority
can
deal
with,
it
seems
to
me
that
something
that
we
should
probably
be
finding
a
way
to
resolve.
Thank
you.
H
Yeah,
thank
you,
chair
I'll
deal
with
the
first
question.
There
are
no
plans
to
introduce
charging
and
it's
not
just
a
financial
issue.
If
you
look
at
those
authorities
where
they
have
introduced
charging,
they
collect
significantly
less
of
that
waste
because
people
opt
out
of
paying
for
it.
So
at
the
present
time,
we've
got
no
plans
to
go
down
that
route.
K
Regarding
polystyrene
yeah,
it's
something
that
we're
actually
looking
into
it
wouldn't
be
really
possible
to
put
in
the
green
bin,
because
we
compact
everything
and
it
will
just
explode
everywhere.
But
we
are
looking
into
offering
it
at
the
hwc's.
A
Could
you
just
explain
for
people
are
watching
what
hws.
K
Oh
sorry,
household
waste,
recycling
center,
sorry.
A
Thank
you
h,
w
mine.
Do
you
want
to
comment
on
that
at
all.
J
I
think
the
the
point
is
what
is
similar
to
what
we
talked
about
before,
if
it's,
if
it
goes
in
the
con,
if
it
goes
in
the
wheel
a
bit
and
goes
into
a
refuse
collection
vehicle
the
likelihood
by
the
time
it
reaches
a
facility,
it's
no
longer
one
piece:
it's
it's
a
multitude
of
pieces
which,
basically
we
will
we
and
not,
was
not
unique
to
us.
We're
really
struggling
to
recover.
That.
G
Little
one
the
chair
I
mean
wakefield
do
seem
to
have
solved
the
problem.
It's
not
a
million
miles
away
from
here.
Wakefield!
Isn't
it
and
maybe
if
we,
if
we
go
and
have
a
look,
how
they're
dealing
with
it,
we
could
save
an
awful
lot
of
expense.
It's
not
like
reinvented
the
wheel.
Is
it
they
they're
practicing
and
doing
it
so
clearly
they're
managing
it
and
they're,
overcoming
all
the
problems
that
you've
mentioned.
So
it's
not
beyond
the
bounds
of
possibilities
that
we
can
emulate
what
they're
doing
and
do
it
very
quickly.
A
Okay,
now
do
you
want
to
come
on
this
specific
point,
cancel
out?
Okay,
just.
I
A
very
quick
point
I
mean
when
we
talk
about
polystyrene,
there's
expanded
polystyrene,
which
is
but
you're
basically
packing
materials.
You're
talking
about-
and
I
think
yeah
sort
of
either
black
bin
or
household
recovery
does
make
it
make
sense
there.
There
is
also
quite
a
reasonable
amount
of
polystyrene
that
is
used
predominantly
in
things
like
yogurt
pots
and
margarine
tubs
from
what
I
know
of
the
manufacturers
that
use
that
type
of
material,
they're,
very
good
technical
reasons
why
they
feel
they
need
to
use
it
at
the
moment.
I
But
I
know
a
lot
of
work
is
going
on
in
industry
to
move
away
from
those.
So
I
think
what
we
will
see
in
general
terms,
is
a
simplified
set
of
plastics
that
are
produced
by
the
likes
of
companies.
I've
worked
for
historically
to
basically
make
make
sure
that
there
are
more
clear
streams
that
that
can
go
there.
That
can
go
there.
A
H
Why
don't
we
advertise
everything
that
martin's
can
recycle
is
my
first
question
because
I
come
back
to
my
knowledge
of
the
pan.
I
had
this
argument
with
a
war
colleague
of
mine
only
a
few
weeks
ago,
when
the
husband
had
put
the
pan
in
the
black
bin
and
she
removed
it
out
of
the
black
bin
and
put
it
in
the
green
bin,
and
he
said
it's
going
the
wrong
benefit.
H
H
And
thirdly,
just
a
comment
regarding
charges.
We
are
not
a
non-charging
authority.
Are
we
because
we
do
charge
at
our
house
or
waste
centers.
K
So
to
answer
your
first
point,
volumes
of
those
materials
such
as
scrap
textiles
and
mixed
rigid
plastics
would
cause
a
problem
for
the
process
and
and
so
yeah
it
wouldn't
be
feasible
to
collect
them
in
in
such
volumes.
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
jump
in
deck.
N
Perhaps
if
I
can
just
also
help
there
as
well
and
then,
if
somebody
matters
everything
to
add,
I
think
the
general
point
council
was
around.
Why
we
don't
was
the
question
about
do
it?
Do
we
have
do
we
advertise?
Do
we
tell
people
what
can
go
in
the
green
bin?
So
we
do
do
a
lot
of
work
around
that
in
terms
of
the
the
basement
materials
that
can
go
in
the
green
bin.
N
So,
for
example,
in
a
couple
of
weeks
time,
the
annual
leaflet
will
go
out
to
all
households
telling
them
about
the
christmas
collections
and
on
the
back
of
that,
will
be
another
easy
to
sort
of
look
at
pictorial
version
of
what
goes
in
the
green
bin,
which
we
did
last
year
and
all
that
information
is
also
regularly
shared
on
social
media
and
again
we
use
partners
such
as
zero-waste
leads
to
champion
that,
with
with
organizations,
we
can
never
do
it
enough,
so
we'll
always
want
to
do
more
and
more
and
what
goes
in
the
green
bin.
N
But
I
think
the
the
point
what
council
was
about
the
sort
of
the
the
the
more
nichey
sort
of
stuff?
Like
you
say
that
the
panzer
and
that's
what
I
think
ed's
saying
is
that
there
are
always
some
there
are.
There
are
some
materials
that
hw
mines.
If
it
is
there,
they
can
sort
and
find
a
market
for
they
won't
necessarily
throw
it
away.
N
But
what
we
can't
do
for
sub
materials
is
advertise
that
to
the
general
public,
because
the
scale
of
which
then
that
would
then
be
presented
would
mean
that
they
couldn't
then
sort
it
and
find
a
market
for
it.
So
I
think
that's
the
case
with
some
of
the
the
items
that
you're
mentioning.
If
we
suddenly
said
to
everybody,
you
could
put
all
your.
You
broke
your
your
old
pots
and
pans
and
things
and
whatever
in
your
green
bin.
Then
we
might
struggle
to
to
process
that
at
the
the
other
end.
N
So
the
things
and
textiles
is
an
example
of
that.
The
hw
martins
do
extract
some
textiles
that
are
put
in
the
green
bin
and
find
a
market
for
those.
But
if
we
said
to
people,
you
can
put
textiles
in
the
green
bin,
the
amount
of
textiles
and
clothes
that
we
would
then
get
would
be
too
difficult
to
manage
both
from
the
viewport.
It
was
collecting
it,
but
also
the
the
machinery
in
the
current
waves
at
hw
martin's
sorts
things.
N
So
what
we
try
and
do
is
focus
on
on
the
main
things
that
can
go
into
green
bin
and
and
make
that
clear
to
really
our
website
accountable
site
also
does
detail
in
quite
detail
the
the
things
that
can
go
in
the
green
bin
and
there's
a
search
facility
on
there.
The
perhaps
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
comment
on
that.
G
Yeah,
I
think
you're
right,
we
can
deal
with
it.
We
do
to
extract
those
sorts
of
materials
out.
G
I
think
there's
another
point
as
well
that
if
you
do
advertise
textiles
and
the
the
metals
you've
got
very
good
facilities
within
leads
already
to
collect
those
at
the
house,
always
recycling
sites
you
advertise
that
and
you
make
they
are
big
components:
you're
putting
into
your
green
bin
you're,
putting
those
into
your
green
bin,
there's
less
capacity,
then
for
the
other
types
of
materials
that
we
do
readily
recycle
the
plastics,
the
papers
and
the
cardboard
and
the
glass,
the
the
cans.
H
Yep
I
can
answer
that,
based
on
a
last
composition,
analysis
and
based
on
the
tones
were
delivered
to
the
incinerator
last
year,
which
were
about
190
000
tons,
composition.
Analysis
shows
that
glass
was
about
7.4
of
that
which
equates
to
about
fourteen
thousand
tons
per
year.
G
It
feels
just
worth
expanding
from
your
perspective.
We
of
course
recycle
the
the
the
aggregate
from
the
ref
process,
so
the
glass
content
will
survive
the
combustion
process
and
will
be
part
of
the
aggregate
that
goes
for
a
road
manufacturer,
different
products.
G
N
So,
actually,
is
it
just
just
a
quick
pick
on
the
point
that
phil
just
made
the
the
the
analysis,
the
composition
analysis
that
phil
refers
to
is
quite
old.
I
think
it's
2015
that
we
lasted
that
so
they're
the
figures
and
I
presume
the
figures
that
polly's
picked
up
on
as
well.
So
we
are
doing
a
a
more
recent
competition
analysis
that
we're
looking
to
do
after
christmas,
with
a
environmental
consultancy
that
specializes
in
this
this
type
of
work.
So
probably
in
that
february
time
we'll
be
doing
a
further
detailed
composition,
analysis.
N
A
I
Probably
a
question
for
amanda
or
philip:
obviously,
the
direction
of
travel
as
a
city
that
we'll
be
moving
in
will
will
be
recycling
more
at
the
moment.
Every
second
rate
is
35
percent,
which
is
quite
a
lot
below
the
national
average
and
not
you
know,
I
know
not
much
of
it's
going
to
landfill.
That's
very
laudable,
but
the
level
of
which
we
are
recycling
will
improve
some
of
that
through
government
funding,
some
of
that
through
legislation,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
I
My
question
is
obviously
we
have
a
contract
with
you
earlier
for
a
level
a
level
of
service.
If
we
start
diverting
materials
such
as
food
waste
such
as
more
readily
recyclable
plastics
through
education
and
the
stuff
that
you
know,
manufacturers
are
doing
to
make
it
more
recyclable.
L
We've
tried
to
make
the
contract
as
flexible
as
possible,
so
we
have
what
we
call
a
guaranteed
minimum
tonnage
now
we
don't
actually
have
to
deliver
that
damage,
but
we
would
have
to
pay
for
it
and
we
set
that
deliberately
at
a
relatively
low
level,
but
I
don't
think
we
have
any
concerns
that
we
would
ever
get
to
that.
Despite
you
know
all
the
new
initiatives
that
are
going
to
be
coming
forward,
so
I
mean
at
this
moment
in
time.
L
I
So,
building
on
that
from
a
strategic
level,
then
so
we
can
basically
divert
and
recycle
more
without
any
particular
fear
of
contractual
risks
there.
So
therefore,
the
direction
that
you
know,
if
you
look
at
the
government's
october
2021
net
zero
strategy,
where
there's
295
million
going
into
pay
for
food
waste
collections
in
councils
and
the
extended
producer
responsibility,
taxes
which
you
know,
let's
face
it,
we
don't
know
how
much
was
going
to
come
our
way.
But
let's
assume
that
some
is.
I
Is
it
fair
to
say
that
we
as
a
city,
we
can
start
to
think
well?
Actually,
if
we
are
bringing
in
food
waste
collections,
what
will
that
look
like
and
if
we
are
expanding
our
recycling?
How
does
that
look?
Do
we
need
to
do?
Do
you
think?
Do
we
think
we
need
to
wait
for
the
government
to
sort
of
say
here's
the
amount
of
cash
that
you're
getting
or
can
we
start
that?
Can
we
start
that
planning
now.
H
Just
point
on
that,
sorry,
that
there
is
one
thing
we
are
still
unsure
about,
as
john
keeps
saying
about,
the
national
waste
strategy
is
the
in
terms
of
the
other
elements
of
it
like
the
deposit,
return
schemes
and
things
like
that.
We
don't
know
yet
how
much
that's
going
to
take
away
from
the
way
streams
that
the
council
controls
in
terms
of
taking
food
waste
out
glass,
we're
comfortable
with
that.
But
in
terms
of
other
elements,
we
are
unsure.
I
If
we
sort
of
don't
commercialize
it
and
allow
it
to
go
to
others,
then
they
will
get
commercial
waste
stream,
so
ultimately
we're
in
a
position
where,
as
a
council,
we,
you
know,
we've
got
a
receptacle
there,
where,
if
you're,
putting
a
valuable
commodity
which
currently
we
talk
about
waste,
but
actually
it's
not
waste.
It's
it's
materials
that
have
had
one
use
and,
if
they're
going
to
go
around
again,
I
can
get
reused
and
the
way
that
the
markets
are
going
at
the
moment
and
I
especially
don't
know
how
they're
going
to
go
long
term.
I
I
But
I
don't
think
it's
personally.
I
don't
think
it's
a
big
leap
of
faith
to
assume
that
the
cost
of
not
recycling
will
be
larger
than
the
cost
of
recycling.
You
know
these
materials
have
already
gone
up
a
lot
in
the
last
12
months.
So
therefore,
as
a
city,
I
think
we
need
to
think
well.
Actually
how
do
we
get
a
share
of
that
pie?.
N
Thanks,
chad,
thanks
council
just
become
a
couple
of
points
there
best
again.
I
just
thought
that
I
could
leave
it
without
a
comment
on
the
the
national
rate
of
recycling
at
the
moment.
Leads
is
around
30
35
percent,
like
you
said
about
35
36,
they
say.
Obviously,
that's
been
affected
hugely
by
the
last
18
months
of
the
pandemic,
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
recyclable
material
can
collect
particularly
household
waste
sites.
N
So
it
would
probably,
I
think,
it's
fair
to
say
nearer
39
would
be
the
the
average
if
you
look
at
the
three
years
before
that
and
that's
reasonably
comparable
to
the
national
average
and
certainly
the
average
of
the
core
cities
across
the
country.
So
I
think
we're
probably
middling
is
probably
fair
to
say
I
would
say
on
that
recycling
rate,
but
it's
really
good
to
have
this
conversation
share
these
conversations.
N
The
debate
here
with
members
around
all
the
complexities
of
these
issues,
because
what
we
also
need
to
bear
in
mind
is
it's
not
quite
that
simple,
because,
as
we've
highlighted
a
couple
of
times
and
leads
only,
I
think,
certainly
0.3
of
a
percent
or
whatever
it
is
from
the
big
black
bins
goes
to
to
landfill
and
about
one
and
a
half
percent
in
total
across
the
city.
It
always
goes
to
landfill
and
some
of
the
authorities
that
we
might
be
comparing
high
recycling
rates
with.
N
Perhaps
don't
all
have
that
high
capture
rate
of
stuff
not
going
to
landfill.
Some
will
and
I'm
not
here
to
say
that
the
mountain
city
is
doing
better
than
leeds,
but
it's
just
it
is
it's
off.
This
is
trying
to
this
game
is
about
trying
to
work
out
comparing
apples
with
oranges
and
trying
to
compare
something.
That's
really
difficult
and
you
can
understand
the
government
from
that
viewpoint,
looking
at
the
resource
space
strategy
trying
to
focus
on
some
consistencies
collection,
so
we
can
compare
more
apples
with
apples
but
yeah.
N
So
that's
just
a
point
I'd
make.
I
thought
I
think
I
couldn't
really
let
that
go
without
coming
and
the
the
the
food
planning
absolutely
agree
in
terms
of
that's
what
we're
looking
at
at
the
moment
around
the
options
for
collecting
food
and
leads,
because
we
know
we'll
need
to
do
it.
We
should
need
to
do
it
and
that'll
be
in
the.
N
The
government
will
be
legislating
that,
and
it's
been
really
clear
in
the
budget
that
there'll
be
money
attached
to
that
around
the
new
burdens
around
that,
so
that
there
are
the
options
we're
looking
at
the
the
composition.
Analysis
of
that
thing
will
be
really
good
to
have
information
and
we'll
share
that
with
you
around
the
food,
that's
actually
in
the
black
bin.
At
the
moment,
that's
mainly
where
it's
going
at
the
moment,
so
we're
looking
at
what
options
leads
could
have
talking
that,
through
with
defra.
N
N
So
the
options
for
leads
probably
would
be
to
look
at
separate
food
waste
collection
service
where
you
collect
it
separately
from
the
curbside
or
looking
at
a
co-mingling
option
where
the
food
is
co-mingled
with
the
garden
waste,
as
happens
in
a
number
of
councils
already
so
they're.
The
potential
options.
I
So
just
you
met
from
what
I've
read
of
the
government
proposal.
Co-Mingled
isn't,
isn't
good,
isn't
the
direction
unless
it's
basically
been
worded
vaguely
it
said
separate.
Have
you
have
you
heard
anything
that
says
it
might
actually
be
the
co-mingled
method
that
councils
such
as
manchester
liverpool
use?
What
was
that.
N
Yeah
through
the
chair,
yeah
yeah
we're
the
the
way.
The
wording
at
the
moment
seems
really
clear
in
that
you
can't
co-mingle
and
they're
requiring
a
separate
food
collection,
but
the
representation
from
the
council,
such
as
you
mentioned,
and
including
hull
and
east
east
lincolnshire,
for
example,
based
riding,
for
example,
who
already
collect
co-mingled
collections.
Their
representation
has
always
been
really
strong
to
death
for
around
that
and
the
government
around
that.
So
we're
waiting
for
the
final
guidance
to
be
published
in
the
new
year.
N
We
expect
there
to
be
some
give
in
the
what
they
call
the
current
teep
regulations,
whether
something
is
technically
environmentally,
economically
practical
allows
councils
currently
to
to
negotiate
with
death
for
around
mixing
mixing
types
that
we
currently
do,
and
we
expect
there
to
be
some
flexibility
around
that
around
the
co-mingling
of
waste,
where
the
perhaps
will
be
less
chance
of
flexibility,
which
will
be
an
issue
for
us
to
consider
will
be
whether
that
will
be
weekly
or
fortnightly
so
that
that's
the
indications
we're
getting
from
deafer
in
our
continental
conversations.
N
A
Thank
you
very
much,
john
councillor,
burke.
B
Can
I
ask:
does
the
frequency
of
collection
of
green
beans
actually
impact
on
the
amount
of
recyclable
material
you
collect?
What
I
mean
by
that
is,
I
know
some
areas
of
leads
where
I
live,
for
instance,
it's
alternative
weeks.
I
know
my
friend
where
she
lives
then
they're
green
bins
once
a
month
and
the
black
beans
weekly,
but
quite
often
their
green
beans,
softball
just
don't
pick
wrapping
because
you've
got
to
put
it
somewhere.
N
Thank
you,
council
yeah,
good
question,
the
that's
one
of
the
just
very
briefly.
N
That
would
take
states
with
the
margins.
Therefore,
either
company
sorted
or
rejected,
but
that
was
a
number
of
years
ago
and
obviously
a
lot's
changed
in
that
time,
both
in
terms
of
how
more
people
are
more
responsible
and
more
willing
and
to
to
to
try
better
to
recycle
and
and
communities,
have
changed
in
that
aspect.
So
that's
something
we're
looking
at
with
the
current
root
review.
N
So
similarly,
like
as
we
did
with
the
brown
bin
collection
review,
we'll
work
with
board
members
early
on
in
that
process,
and
I
did
we'll
provide
maps
of
where
the
current
green
bin
collections
aren't
alternative
collection
and
have
those
conversations
with
yourselves
a
local
level,
with
your
local
knowledge
of
where
you
think.
We
could
perhaps
expand
that
now
and
build
and
then
factor
that
into
the
review
and
then
build
autonomous
collections
into
those
those
communities.
That's
something
we
will
be
doing
and
we'll
be
coming
out
to
board
members.
Shortly
on
that.
A
Thanks
john
I'm
just
just
conscious
that
the
review
is
in
the
other
side
of
this
joint
review,
so
I'm
keen
to
keep
away
from
that
and
stick
to
the
resources
and
strategy
elements.
I'd
see
it
probably
as
operational,
but
it
is
an
understandable
question.
Counselor
burke
did
you
have
it
another
question?
A
No,
okay.
Can
I
ask
I've
got
a
couple
of
questions
so.
Firstly,
if
we
took
all
the
food
out
of
the
incinerator,
obviously
that
that
changed
the
composition,
I'm
assuming
that
make
it
hotter
and
therefore
more
efficient.
I
don't
know
if
viola
can
comment
on
that.
Scott.
J
J
Actually,
if
we
take
that
material
out-
and
that
is
generally
low
energy
material,
but
what
we
don't
want
is
we
can
cope
with
a
range
of
energy
inputs,
but
we,
conversely,
we
don't
want
the
high
energy
input
material
either
like
the
plastics,
because
the
the
the
process
is
designed
to
operate
at
the
same
consistent
temperature.
J
J
We
are
regulated
to
very,
very
tight
emission
standards,
so
what
that
means
is
we
have
to
use
more
abatement
materials
to
get
within
our
environmental
permit?
If
we,
if
we
process
more
high
energy
plastics,
so
we
can
cope
with
our
range
of
energy
content
and
we
would
adjust
the
process
to
suit
to
make
sure
that
we
maintain
a
consistent
temperature
profile.
G
It's
possibly
worth
expanding
as
well
to
see
the
areas
that
have
had
separate
food
collection.
In
reality
they
don't
get
all
the
food,
so
the
the
impact
on
the
overall
waste
mass
isn't
as
much
as
you
might
expect
from
what
we've
seen
so
far.
Some
people
just
don't
bother.
They
leave
it
in
the
residual
bin.
Sadly,.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
That's
helpful
next
question,
john
probably
so,
we've
heard
the
300
million
or
295
million
of
investment
with
this.
It
feels
like
that's,
sounds
like
a
big
number,
but
actually
I
imagine,
building
a
whole
bunch
of
new
facilities
would
cost
a
lot
more
on
that
across
the
across
the
country.
I
don't
know
if
you
can
comment
on
that.
N
Yeah
and
perhaps
been
kevin
if
he
can
add
some
sort
of
financial
expertise
as
well
to
what
I'm
saying
yeah,
we
weren't
clear
at
the
moment.
The
the
amount
of
money
obviously
is
welcomed
and
the
investment's
welcomed
and
we'll
support
the
rollout
food.
But
we're
not
absolutely
clear
at
the
moment,
is
how
much
that
is:
capital
investment.
N
How
much
is
the
revenue
investment
we
think
that
what's
been
announced
so
far
is
mainly
around
the
capital
and
the
infrastructure
investment
that's
needed
over
the
next
two
or
three
years,
because
one
of
the
things
we're
not
really
supposed
to
cover
today
so
far.
The
discussion
is
that
to
support
all
that's
changed
with
the
country.
N
Never
mind
locally
needs
a
huge
infrastructure
change,
so,
whether
that's
ads
or
sorry,
I
never
be
digesters
aware
of
it-
is
that
the
food
waste
example
be
taken
to
where
all
this
new
glass
will
be
taken
to
to
processed
and
and
turned
into
something
useful
that
that's
an
issue
in
itself,
and
presumably
mainly
the
private
sector,
therefore
driven
by
the
markets
and
what
councils
can
provide
the
markets.
But
but
there
are
less
a
huge
infrastructure
investment
and
I
suspect
the
private
sector
is
really
welcoming
the
fact
that
they
wouldn't
have
announced
some
money.
N
So
at
least
they've
got
a
degree
of
certainty
now
about
about
going
into
the
market.
Investing
so
there's
that
bit
of
it
as
well
and
there's
our
own
infrastructure
investment.
So,
for
example,
if
we
were
to
go
down
collecting
glass
separately
or
food
separately,
then
clearly
that
would
require
more
fleet
and
more
crews,
but
the
fleet
element
of
it.
N
Let's
say,
for
example,
we
needed
another
15
or
20
vehicles
to
do
a
glass,
only
collection
or
a
food,
only
collection
that
the
current
value
of
a
vehicle
is
electric,
which
would
probably
want
to
perhaps
consider
about
four
hundred
thousand
pounds
a
vehicle.
So
you
can
start
to
see
how
quickly
it
adds
up.
That's
just
for
leads
and
then
you've
you've
got
the
whole
of
england
having
to
meet
legal
requirements
potentially
by
2025
and
have
that
investment.
N
At
the
same
time,
there's
going
to
be
a
question
about
whether
the
infrastructure
is
even
available
to
be
supplied
on
that
scale.
So
there's
loads
of
other
questions
to
go
through,
I
think,
and
which
are
good
questions
to
have
it's
good,
that
we're
having
those
discussions
about
investment
and
where
and
and
the
the
the
point
quickly,
then,
is
that
what
we're
still
waiting
for
is
the
information
around
the
revenue
side
of
it.
So
the
government's
helpfully
reiterated
the
fact
that
all
new
burdens
is
the
phrase
that's
used
will
be
fully
funded
by
government.
N
Obviously,
there's
questions
for
government
to
answer.
Suppose
I
get
the
money
from
that,
presumably
through
produce
responsibility,
tax
or
whatever
it
may
be
called,
but
also
for
us
it's
around
how
that
money
reaches
us,
because
the
devil
will
be
in
the
detail
around
that.
You
know
whether
that
comes
to
us
a
grant
how
how
the
grant
will
be
allocated
to
councils
would
it
be
on
a
per
household
basis.
How
would
that
be
worked
out?
Would
that
consider
local
circumstances?
N
Or
would
you
just
make
an
assumption
a
similar
rate
per
household
across
the
country
so
that
they're
all
boring
things
but
they're
very
they're,
very
important
in
terms
of
us
understanding
what
our
options
are,
making
some
key
decisions
now
about
what
we
do:
investment,
wise
decision-wise
and
where
we
take
the
city
and
and
and
consult
with
yourselves
and
and
residents
around,
I
don't
know
if
there's
anything,
we
can't
stop
kevin
until.
H
Yeah
thanks
john
yeah
defra
have
said
that
it's
295
million
of
capital
funding,
but
it
doesn't.
H
So,
as
john
says,
the
devil's
in
the
detail
there
and
then
the
they
have
said
they
want
to
talk
to
individual
authorities
and
consult
about
allocating
new
burdens,
because
each
authority
will
be
different,
so
the
cost
of
us
taking
out.
I
don't
know
20
30,
000
tons
of
food
waste
out
of
the
waste
stream.
H
But
if
you
compare
this
to
another
authority,
they
might
be
landfilling
that
equivalent
tonnage
and
that
would
be
a
different
cost.
So
it's
it's
understanding.
What's
government's
position
is
going
to
be
around
calculating
that
net
burdens,
so
we
couldn't
say
leads
are
going
to
get
x
million
now
for
quite
a
while.
I
think.
D
Thanks
thanks
chair,
I
mean
I
think,
apart
from
funding
and
what
john's
alluded
to
in
infrastructure-
and
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
things
we
need
as
a
nation
as
a
country
is,
is
to
have
that
conversation.
So
just
give
an
example
about
the
carrier,
banks.
You
know
if
we
go
back
a
few
years
when
we
introduce
the
carrier
back
charge,
how
many
carrier
banks
ended
up
in
the
ocean
and
the
sky
program.
You
know
plastic
in
the
ocean
and
all
that
it
raised
a
big.
D
You
know
kind
of
profile,
about
the
dangers
of
plastics
and
how
people
actually
change
our
mentality
of
not
buying
a
new
carry
bag.
Every
time
you
go
to
you
know
it's
not
because
of
five
pence
or
ten
pence.
People
can
afford
that.
If
you
buy
a
bottle
of
milk
and
do
you
need
a
carryback
or
can
you
just
carry
it
to
your
to
your
car?
D
Or
can
you
take
a
reviews,
career
bag
so
but
that's
actually
affected
the
way
we
work
and
the
way
we
think
and
we
recycle
and
reuse,
and
I
think
at
a
national
level
we
need
that,
apart
from
the
funding,
we
need
that
kind
of
conversation
that
kind
of
campaign
for
people
to
come
out.
Think
about
what
goes
in
the
green
bean.
What
goes
in
the
black
bin?
How
do
we
actually
reduce
reuse
and
recycle?
D
And
that
is
actually,
I
think,
we've
probably
lost
a
bit
focus
in
the
last
few
years
and
you
know
with
the
pandemic
and
everything,
but
I
think
until
we
have
that
the
new
sort
of
strategy
and
government
guidelines
and
then
a
massive
drive
to
say
well
actually
the
effect
it
has
on
our
environment
and
why
we
need
to
do
this.
I
think
I
think,
generally,
I
think,
will
will
you
know
out
in
the
households,
will
will
probably
struggle
until
we
kind
of
at
that
point
will
probably
struggle
to
make
that
you
know
massive
progress.
A
Thank
you,
council.
I
think
I
guess
the
the
the
question
around.
What
can
we
do
on
our
own?
It's
got
to
be
sitting
there
in
the
back
of
our
mind,
so
we've
talked
about
the
collection
return
scheme.
A
N
Socher,
you
mean
in
terms
of
almost
a
leads
version
of
a
deposit
return
scheme,
yeah
exactly
what
you
mean.
Well,
the
charges.
No,
that's
not
something.
We've
particularly
given
much
much
thought,
so
I
think,
on
the
basis
really
that
that
the
government
itself
is
sort
of
struggling
to
understand
the
practicalities
artwork
at
a
national
level
with
all
the
resources
that
can
go
there,
because
I
think
for
something
to
work:
the
amount
of
infrastructure
that
would
be
needed
and
cross
collaboration
and
working
across
supermarkets
and
other
producers.
It's
at
that
national
level.
N
N
I'd
still
point
back
to
the
fact:
we
do
a
lot.
We
do
a
lot
well,
you
know
so.
The
glass
collection
leads
is
collected
really
efficiently
well
and
the
700
sites
that
we
have
across
the
city
gathering
at
the
moment,
around
13
000
tons
a
year
of
glass.
It's
pretty
good,
and
we
have
these
conversations
the
other
week
with
h.w
martin's,
where
we
we're
having
a
session
together.
N
Looking
at
what
what
options
do
we
have
for
the
future
and
specifically
talking
around
glass
and
where
that
might
be
going
and
the
nature
of
the
mountains
were
saying
that
you
know
that
the
amount
that
we
collect
is
is
huge
and
probably
is
akin
to
a
lot
of
the
councils.
They're
collecting
it
separately
and
the
crucial
thing
for
us
is
the
glass
that
we
are
getting
these
high
quality
grade
class.
N
So
again,
it's
trying
to
equate
it
back
to
which
we
perhaps
don't
do
very
well
and
we're
trying
to
look
at
the
the
climate
impacts,
the
carbon
impact
of
what
we
collect
and
the
grade
we
collect
and
therefore
is
it.
Is
it
being
recycled
more
times
because
they've
the
better
grade
class
we
collect
than
perhaps
it
would
if
we
collect
it
separately?
So
it's
just
really
complex,
and
but
I
just
want
to
make
that
point
that
we
we're
not
do
not
doing
anything.
N
We
believe
that
what
we're
doing
we're
doing
well-
and
it
is
having
good
outcomes,
which
is
just
what
what
how
we
kick
on
now
on
the
next
steps
and
what
we'll
legally
be
required
to
do.
And
that's
what
we're
looking
at
for
to
see
what
we
can
do
in
the
next
year
or
two
around
that.
H
Thank
you
chair,
just
a
quick
one
to
go
back
to
the
roof.
Sorry
you
mentioned
it
can
generate
up
to
11
megawatts
of
electricity.
So
what
is
the
average
and
what
is
the
income
contract
with
there
and
then
obviously
the
district
heating
network?
How
much
more
can
we
get
out
of
that
system
as
well?
Thank
you.
J
Yeah,
so
the
the
way,
the
way
the
plant
works
is
it's,
this
district
energy
led.
So
we
will.
We
will
export
as
much
energy
as
the
district
energy
system
can
cope
with
and
depending
on
demand.
So
over
the
winter,
we'll
expect
export
more
energy
as
heat
as
opposed
to
electricity,
so
the
demand
profile
will
will
alter
on
a
daily
basis
and
a
seasonal
basis
depend
depending
on
the
demand
on
the
heating
network.
J
Following
with
extra
after
we've
extracted
the
heat
energy
and
in
terms
of
capacity
we
we've,
we've
got
up
to
20
megawatts
of
installs
heat
capacity
at
a
peak
at
the
moment,
we're
seeing
about
six
megawatts,
but
there's
new
connections
coming
on
board
all
year
round.
So
so
we're
expecting
that
to
increase
significantly.
A
Thank
you,
council
did
you
have
another
question.
I
Yeah
going
back
to
the
food
waste
and
the
funding
talking
around
the
uncertainty
that
exists
around
funding
at
the
moment
and
going
back
to
what
we're
talking
of
on
the
merits
of
separate
food,
genuinely
separate
food
waste
collection
versus
co-mingled,
I
think
as
a
from
strategic
level.
What
we
need
to
do
is
look
at
the
the
science,
the
science
behind
it.
You
know.
I
Clearly
the
funding
stream
as
to
what
we
can
deliver
is
uncertain,
but
from
a
from
a
technical
and
an
ecological
point
of
view,
are
there
clear
benefits
or
is
there
a
clear
gap
between
a
separate
food
waste
collection
going
to
biogas?
And
you
know,
biodigestion
versus
a
commingle
going
to
compost
and
venting
off
to
the
environment?
Is
that
is
that
science
clearly
understood.
N
So,
for
example,
a
commingled
collection
provides
a
lot
of
logistical,
a
much,
much
easier
logistical
solution
to
to
us,
because
it's
one
set
of
materials
that
you're
collecting
from
one
well,
two
sets
of
zeros
from
one
bin,
with
one
set
of
crews,
taking
him
to
one
place
and
therefore
has
a
lot
of
easier
ways
to
be
managed,
but
you're
absolutely
right.
N
What's
there
for
the
environmentally
better
solution,
in
terms
of
whether
that
be
more
biogas
or
whatever
it's
measured
in
terms
of
carbon
impact
of
the
two
suggestions
and
that's
what
we're
looking
at
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
that
trying
to
understand.
First
of
all,
we
need
to
understand
better
what
what
the
potential
tonnage
is
like.
I
said
that
that
composition,
analysis
is
crucial
to
that,
but
then
we're
looking
at
different
ways.
N
We
could
perhaps
involve
the
market
as
well
in
those
sources,
because
another
key
thing
I
can't
reinforce
enough
is
at
the
end
of
the
day.
Whatever
solution
we
come
forward
with,
that
has
to
be
a
market
and
a
an
infrastructure
that
can
that
can
deal
with
whatever
we
collect.
So
there's
no
point
in
us
collecting
food
separately
if
there's
there's
nowhere
to
take
it
in
the
next
three
or
four
years.
Similarly,
there's
no
point
in
going
down
the
commingled
route.
I
And
what
what's
the
time
skills
for
answering
that-
and
I
guess
you
know
what
you're
confirming
is
that
we
will
understand
at
a
detailed
level,
the
environment,
because
clearly
you
know
the
cost
and
the
crewing
and
the
staffing
issues
you
can
you
can
you
can
project
those
with?
I
suppose
comparatively
you
know,
you
know
what
resources
are
needed
to
collect
an
extra
bin.
I
I
guess
the
you
know
I
was
I
was
looking
at
in
my
own
world,
which
did
have
food
west,
obviously
collection
here
we
did
736
tons
collected
in
2019
so
rolled
out
across
which
from
the
numbers
are
worked
out,
based
on
the
wrap
data,
it's
roughly
at
the
time
about
50
of
what
theoretically
could
be
collected.
So
not
too,
you
know
not
not
too
by
the
number,
but
I
guess
do
you
have
a
time
scale
for
when
we
will
have
the
ecological
comparison
between
doing
one
versus
the
other.
N
N
We
need
to
be
to
be
getting
to
the
bottom
of
really
to
divide
to
to
be
clear
what
our
own
way
forward
is,
but
I
would
hope
as
well,
because
clearly,
the
the
type
of
discussion
stage
should
be
happening
across
the
whole
of
the
country
and
that
sort
of
information
should
be
relevant
for
almost
every
council
in
the
country
to
better
understand,
so
we
would
hope
as
well
nationally
we
get
some
better
quality
information
and
analysis
provided
to
us
as
well.
N
It's
just
interesting
to
know
at
the
moment
it's
slightly
puzzling
and
I
assume
it'll
be
changed,
but
the
resource-based
strategy
still
states
the
reason
for
going
for
separate
food
waste
collection
to
be
to
reduce
landfill
and
to
reduce
the
methane
from
landfill,
which
is
it's
a
bit
strange
really
because
elsewhere
in
other
government
strategies,
it
does
talk
clearly
around
the
need
to
increase
bio
gas
collection
from
things
such
as
ads.
So
I
I
assume
at
some
point.
The
government
will
join
those
two
things
up,
but
it
is
interesting
at
the
moment.
N
That's
that's
what
the
government
is
saying
that
the
strategy
is
purely
to
reduce
food
going
to
landfill,
which
is
it
does
seem
a
bit
strange
but
but
yeah
I
would
hope
with
the
next
five
or
six
months,
but
that
would
like
to
say
will
rely
to
allow
you
to
be
on
government
and
national
work
on
this
as
well.
A
Okay,
I
think
we
are
against
the
end
of
this
agenda
item.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
I've
I've
heard
several
times
which
is
worth
emphasizing
is
the
need
for
a
coherent
national
strategy
on
waste,
and
we
know
it's
due
in
the
new
year
and
I
think
we
all
here
will
be
hopeful
that
there's
an
increased
focus
on
the
carbon
impact,
not
just
the
tonnage
of
recycling
and
that
that
goes
through
the
waste
stream,
whether
it's
further
up
on
reducing
the
use
before
we
get
to
recycle.
A
So
I
think
that's
something
that
we
need
to
as
a
scrutiny
board,
make
sure
we
keep
aware
of
and
make
sure
that
that's
high
on
the
agenda
of
us
and
pass
on
that
agenda
to
anyone
who
will
listen
to
us.
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
close
this
agenda
item,
but
I
would
like
to
thank
everyone.
Who's
taken
the
time
to
come
and
attend.
I
know
it's
been
a
long
item.
I
know
there's
lots
of
work,
that's
gone
on
behind
the
scenes.
A
I
thank
violia
and
h.w
martin's
for
taking
the
time
to
join
us
as
well.
I
do
appreciate
it
and
your
input
has
been
helpful.
I'm
gonna
let
council
defeat
come
in,
but
after
that
I'm
gonna
just
give
because
there's
a
big
change
over
before,
because
everyone
here
is
before
the
next
item.
I'm
just
going
to
have
a
five-minute
pause,
so
anyone
can
use
the
facilities
before
next
item
I'll.
Let
councillor
feek
just
make
a
final
comment.
D
Thanks
cher,
I'm
really,
you
know
helpful
to
have
scooped
his
input
into
this
and
and
for
us
to
kind
of
kind
of
move
forward
with
the
ways
how
we
can
increase
our
recycling-
and
I
think
leeds
is
you-
know
very
well
placed
to
make
further
progress
as
a
city,
in
particular
how
we
manage
our
house
waste
to
best
meet
the
climate
change
objectives.
D
So
I
mean
there
are.
There
are
some
really
good
initiatives
in
terms
of
seven
years
mentioned?
You
know,
glass
banks,
we've
got
recycling
undergo,
which
is
a
very
unique
initiative
which
we
started
here
in
leeds,
but
it's
been
expanding
to
other
cities,
but
it's
not
just
about
how
we
what
we
do
through
recycling
on
the
go,
but
I
think
it's
how?
Actually
we
raise
the
campaign
about
recycling,
how
people
take
that
message
home
as
well,
and
that
has
impact
on
what
goes
in
our
bins.
D
You
know
at
home,
and
then
you
know
ports,
trays
and
tubs.
You
know
something
we,
you
know
we
actually
introduced
the
last
two
years,
but
also
that
we
got
one
of
the
largest
number
of
household
recycling
centers
in
the
in
the
city.
As
well
so
there
are
some
really
good
initiatives
and-
and
we've
already
heard
about
the
largest,
serve
free
garden
waste
collection.
D
I
think
we
as
a
city
we
are,
and
the
administration
we're
very
keen
to
kind
of
move
forward,
and
particularly
you
know,
the
gardener,
sorry
food
waste,
how
how
actually
manage
that,
but
until
we
like
john
said
until
we
have
a
clear
kind
of
guidance
and
how
it'll
be
funded
and
what's
probably
the
best
way
forward-
or
you
know
nationally,
I
think
I
think
I
think
would
probably
have
to
explore
our
options.
Probably,
but
we'll
have
to
wait
for
that
to
happen.
D
But,
finally,
I
like
to
really
you
know
thank
our
contractors,
so
we
don't
often
get
the
chance
to
do
that
for
all
the
hard
work
they
do
and
in
particular
staff
with
the
last
20
months
you
there,
but
you
will
put
in
you
know
if
you
can
pass
on
our
gratitude
to
everybody
involved.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Councillor
feig.
I
echo
your
comments
and
thanks
and,
as
I
said,
we'll
just
have
a
five
minute
break
as
we
all
switch
around
our
seats.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
everyone,
I
think
we've
had
more
than
more
than
five
minutes,
so
I'm
gonna
start
back
up.
If
that's
okay,
I
think
we've
just
got
a
couple
of
more
colleagues
out
and
I'm
sure
they
can
join
us
as
as
we
get
going
so
on
the
next
agenda
item.
I
know
we've
got
mark
and
graham
can
you
introduce
yourself
before
you
start,
but
we've
also
got
councillor
cooper.
You
can
just
introduce
yourself
as
well.
Please.
F
Yeah
good
morning,
everybody
councillor
deborah
cooper,
I'm
the
exec
board,
member
for
resources
and
deputy
leader
lee
city
council.
Can
I
just
say
before
we
start
chair.
Unfortunately,
I've
got
to
leave
at
half
past
12.
and
I
know
you
you
do
like
to
spend
a
decent
amount
of
time
on
each
inquiry.
So
I
have
been
sat
in
the
background
since
quarter
past
10
waiting
to
come
on
with
the
agenda
items.
So
please
don't
think
it's
not
I'm
not
giving
enough
time
to
scrutiny.
F
I
am
it's
just
getting
it
to
be
timetabled
right
for
when,
when
I
can
be,
I've
got
cabinet
and
I've
got
to
go
for
a
half
12.
So
apologies
for
that.
A
Okay,
thank
you
councillor,
cooper,
malcolm
graham,
do
you
want
to
introduce
us.
P
Yeah
thanks
chair
mark
mills,
head
of
asset
management
for
the
city
council,.
A
Thank
you
very
much
so
item
eight
is
about
estate,
realization
management
and
employee
well-being.
Just
so
you
know,
we've
all
read
the
papers,
so
you
don't
need
to
go
through
them
in
detail,
but
if
there's
anything
in
particular,
you
want
to
draw
out
before
we
start
and
then
we'll
move
into
questions.
Thank
you.
P
Thank
you,
yeah
I'll
I'll,
give
a
very
quick
overview.
I
suppose,
and
just
draw
out
a
few
a
few
key
points.
So,
as
you
say,
council
scopes,
the
the
the
paper
itself
is
around
three
key
issues.
One
is
around
the
estate
management
strategy
from
2021
through
2025
and
the
estate
rationalization
program
and
and
where
we
are
with
that
and
particularly
reporting
back
on
and
what
we
achieved
in
the
last
financial
year
and
where
we
are
this
financial
year
and
then
a
point
on
them.
Employee
wellbeing.
P
I
think
one
of
the
key
things
that
I
would
probably
just
draw
out
is,
and
particularly
around
our
estate
management
and
strategy,
and
the
approach
that
we're
taking
is
that
we
last
approved
had
an
approved
estate
management
strategy
or
asset
management
plan,
as
it
was
then
back
in
2014,
and
obviously
the
world
has
moved
on
quite
a
lot
since
then
it
was
moving
on
anyway
and
then
the
pandemic
hits
and-
and
that
has
accelerated
a
number
of
things
that
were
already
happening
in
terms
of
the
way
that
we
were,
that
services
were
changing
and
becoming
more
digitally
focused
and
then
clearly
and
the
pandemic.
P
With
the
the
enforced
work
from
home,
requirements
has
really
moved
on
the
way
in
which,
as
an
organization,
not
just
ourselves
but
other
organizations
as
well,
now
balanced
and
and
brought
forward
a
more
hybrid
approach
to
to
delivery
and
and
employee
working
arrangements
and
and
that's
really
informed,
as
well
as
other
pillars
such
as
the
climate
emergency.
P
That
has
really
informed
the
estate
management
strategy
and
is
set
out
in
the
paper
the
there's
five
key
areas
that
that
strategy
covers,
but
really
focusing
on
the
fact
that
we
need-
and
I
suppose
underpinning
it
is
the
need
for
us
to
have
an
efficient,
well
utilized
estate
and
also
be
being
able
to
afford
that
estate
and
then
have
the
right
management
and
maintenance
requirements
and
and
practices
and
ultimately
budgets
around
that.
I
suppose
moving
on
to
the
estate
rationalization.
P
That
was
again
something
that
we
were
working
on
anyway
and-
and
I
think,
if
you
you
look
back
over.
Certainly
the
last
10
years,
there's
been
some
substantial
shifts
in
in
the
way
in
which
we
use
our
estate,
but
also
the
size
of
the
estate.
So
you
know
going
back
to
2010.
P
We
had
seven
17
buildings
in
the
city
centre
and
now
effectively
we've
got
three
and-
and
you
know
those
buildings
look
vastly
different
to
how
they
were
used
pretty
well
or
what
they
look
like
previously
and
how
they
were
used
previously.
P
I
think
that
again
is
something
that
is
really
is
really
again
and
moving
forward
and
progressing
and
changing
all
the
time,
and
so
one
of
the
key
things
that,
through
the
staff
surveys
that
have
been
undertaken
and
understanding
how
people
want
to
work
in
the
future
and
how
services
will
be
delivered.
P
It
is
around
that
need
for
our
estate
to
to
really
fulfill
that
face-to-face
interaction
requirement
that
that
we
have
in
order
to
be
able
to
and
deliver
effectively
and
that's,
therefore,
moving
away
from
just
the
rows
and
rows
of
desks
that
you've,
probably
traditionally
seen
so.
We've
been
working
across
with
facilities
management
and
with
colleagues
in
hr
and
ids,
and
to
ensure
that
there's
the
role
out
of
appropriate
digital
equipment
to
support
hybrid
working,
as
well
as
to
get
the
most
out
of
them.
P
Employees,
when
they're
in
the
office,
but
also
looking
at
the
and
changing
the
way
that
the
the
workspace
is
laid
out
so
creating
more
collaboration,
spaces,
more
meeting
spaces,
and
certainly
it's
not
a
point
in
time.
It's
a
continual
journey
and
we're
we're.
We've
delivered
some
pilot
spaces,
we're
getting
feedback
from
staff
who
are
using
those
spaces
and
that's
going
to
their
then
inform
their
strategy
for
rolling
those
spaces
out
further
across
the
estate
to
to
support
the
the
the
new
way
of
working
that
we're
all
going
to
see.
P
I
I
think
one
of
the
key
things
and-
and
one
I
suppose,
just
really
drawing
on
the
estate
rationalization
or
realization
process
is
that
last
year
we
came
out
of
a
number
of
properties
which
which
set
out
in
in
the
paper,
there's
a
huge
amount
of
hard
work
behind
coming
out
of
each
one
of
those.
But
I
think
what
the
the
what
we
are
looking
at
is
opportunities
not
just
to
generate
savings,
but
it's
really
around
how
we
can
support
service
delivery
improvements
moving
forward.
P
So
looking
at
ways
in
which
we,
the
services,
can
really
define
how
they're
going
to
deliver
in
the
future,
how
their
the
the
digital
world
may
it
may
change
their
their
way
of
delivering
and
and
then
looking
at
what
the
estate
requirements
may
be
around
that
and
one
of
the
things
that
we,
I
suppose,
we're
getting
to
a
stage.
Now,
where
we
have,
we
we've
probably
picked
the
low-hanging
fruit.
P
So
we've
made
the
easy
moves
in
many
ways
in
terms
of
the
the
the
estate
and
the
particularly
the
office
accommodation
that
we
have
and
I
think
we're
moving
forward.
It's
going
to
be
we,
we
are
going
to
be
needing
to
look
much
more
of
it,
how
services
are
being
delivered
in
communities
and
localities,
and
that
then,
underpinning
what
the,
how
we
use
the
build
our
buildings
differently
and
that's
reflecting
the
fact
that
the
majority
of
buildings
that
we
now
have
provide
some
sort
of
front-facing
service
function.
P
Now
that
might
only
be
a
small
proportion
of
the
building
because
there
might
be
then
back
office,
function
or
storage
or
whatever
in
the
remainder
of
the
building,
but
nevertheless
or
many
of
the
buildings
that
we're
now
going
to
be
looking
at,
do
have
some
an
element
of
that
front.
P
Facing
service
delivery,
and
so
part
of
our
challenge
is
not
necessarily
about
seeing
those
services
closing
it's
about
looking
at
how
we
can
maybe
bring
them
into
different
buildings,
and
that
might
improve
the
customer
experience
and
and
the
the
way
in
which
residents
can
can
access
services.
But
it
will
also
ultimately
support
how
we
can
make
best
use
of
of
our
estate.
P
And,
like
I
say
it's
not
all
about
savings,
it's
also
about
income
generation
as
well,
and
we
do
a
lot
of
work
with
partners
to
to
allow
them
and
bring
them
into
our
estate,
but
also,
I
think,
notably
last
year,
saint
george
house
was
a
building
in
the
city
center.
That
was
an
office
building
and
we
looked
to
to
release
that
and
pure
primarily,
because
we
didn't
need
the
space
anymore
and
we'd
got
the.
P
We
we've
got
the
potential
to
to
bring
in
savings,
but
what
we
did
was
flip
that
into
our
investment
portfolio
and
lease
the
building
out
to
the
global
banking
school
so
actually
collectively,
communicatively
and
the
saving
and
the
additional
income
totaled
about
a
million
pounds
per
and
just
over
a
million
pounds
per
annum.
So
we
are
really
looking
at
how
we
can,
I
suppose,
leverage
our
estate
to
to
meet
the
financial
challenge,
but
also
support
service
delivery.
So
I
think
they're,
the
key
things
I
would
just
draw
out.
P
I
suppose
the
the
final
point,
I'd
probably
say,
is
that
you
know
this
is
something
that
that
an
area
of
work
that
we
do
do
a
lot
of
engagement
around
with
staff
with
services
with
trade
unions
and
with
members,
and
so
it
you
know
when,
when
we
do
start
to
to
look
at
how
we
can
shape
the
estate
moving
forward,
it's
not
just
a
purely
officer
driven
academic
exercise.
P
It
really
is
something
that
we
need
to
bring
people
along
with
us
and
so
there's
a
huge
amount
of
engagement
that
goes
on
behind
it.
Q
I'll
just
mention,
whilst
the
report
predominantly
focuses
on
the
estate
this
time
round,
scrutiny
has
received-
and
you
know
three
previous
reports
around
employee
well-being
and
the
results
of
our
survey-
the
the
results
for
the
fourth
server
you
can
see
in
the
the
report
today,
and
that
was
a
survey
that
was
conducted
in
in
august
earlier
this
year.
So
it's
a
snapshot
in
time
for
around
august.
Q
The
good
news
is
that
the
the
results
in
terms
of
well-being
and
support
that
people
receive
and
are
improved
on
what
we
saw
from
october
2020,
and
one
of
the
issues
that
gets
raised
consistently
by
our
staff
is
around
workload
pressures
and
that's
particularly
in
light
of
having
lost
number
of
people.
You
know
between
september
2020
and
march
21
through
eli,
but
also
in
response
to
service
changes
that
we're
seeing
too.
So
since,
since
we've
received
these
results,
an
awful
lot
of
effort
has
gone
into
in
in
reemphasizing.
Q
So
so,
whilst
the
focus
is
on
the
estate
today,
scrutiny
we're
keen
to
see
the
results
of
the
latest
survey
and
the
summaries
in
the
pack
today
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
around
that
as
we
go.
F
Yeah,
thank
you
just
just
a
few
comments
really
before
any
scrutiny,
member
questions
and-
and
I
would
say
actually
that
just
to
add
to
what
mark
said
about
the
work
on
on
our
estate
really
has
been
ongoing.
Now
for
many
years,
I've
got
to
say
so
it's
not
all
down
to
the
pandemic
as
to
as
to
you
know
why
we're
we're
looking
to
do
things
differently.
F
We
had
a
program
of
change
in
the
workplace
which
has
been
has
been
ongoing
for
five
years
and
more
now
so,
and
also
there
has
been
a
program
of
digital
improvement
and
and
progress
as
well.
That's
been
ongoing
for
a
long
time
too.
Of
course,
the
pandemic
has
had
an
impact
not
just
financially,
but
also
an
impact
on
the
way
that
we
need
to
use
our
estate
in
a
different
way.
F
But
it's
not
the
only
thing.
That's
had
an
impact,
many
other
things
have
too,
and
we
have
to
consider
that
also
that
our
estate
is
aging
and
we
have
got
a
lot
of
our
estate,
which
is
very
old
and
very
much
in
need
of
improvement,
to
bring
up
to
what
we'd
want
it
to
be
in
terms
of
its
own
carbon
footprint
and
and
to
be
the
best
that
those
buildings
can
be
as
well.
F
So
there's
a
number
of
things
to
consider,
but
the
the
work
being
undertaken
is
underpinned
by
five
principles
and
you'll,
find
I'm
sure.
You've
read
your
papers
that
they're
they're
in
there
please
rest
assured
that
we
are,
you
know,
abiding
by
those
five
principles
and
talking
to
everybody
as
we
go
along
with
with
this
proposal
of
work
as
well.
Thanks
chair.
C
Just
to
say,
with
regards
the
selling
off
of
properties
and
the
leasing
of
properties,
which
you
know
obviously
I
understand
have
we
looked
at
any
that
could
be
converted
into
flats.
You
know
because
we've
got
26
000
on
the
waiting
list.
You
know
I'm.
C
Obviously
I
I
don't
know
exactly
where
those
properties
are,
but
have
we
considered
those,
especially
in
the
community,
because
if
we're
looking
at
bringing
some
services
on
the
one
roof
from
the
the
minor
ones,
and
so
that's
what
I
just
wanted
to
ask
that
have
we
considered
looking
at
converting?
C
Yes,
we
have
to
spend
money
to
bring
it
up,
but
then
we
will
be
getting
an
income
from
from
renting
so
and
also
just
to
go
on
to
say
that
you
know
open
up,
rushing
and
selling
off
the
properties
that
we
own
and
then
later
on,
going
back
to
education,
leads
closing
all
the
schools
and
then
look
where
we
are.
Obviously
I
do
understand
things
of
change.
We
do
it
hybrid
working
etc.
C
So
you
know
as
long
as
we're
ensuring
that
we're
not
rushing
to
sell
off
all
our
properties
and
then
end
up
in
a
few
years
time.
The
workforce
has
changed.
You
know
so
and
then,
just
with
regards
to
looking
at
converting
some
into
flats
because
we're
desperate
houses.
P
Thanks,
council,
hamilton
and
I'll
say
your
second
point
first
and
then
I'll
come
back
to
the
the
first
point,
so
I
think
in
terms
of
excuse
me
time
and
speed
and
decision
making,
and
we
are
really
mindful
that
we're
still
in
a
period
of
uncertainty,
you
know
over
over
the
course
of
the
summer.
We
we
were
encouraging
staff
back
into
the
estate,
albeit
recognizing
that
people
may
still
be
fearful
of
coming
into.
P
You
know
maybe
traveling
on
public
transport
or
coming
into
to
buildings,
but
we
we
have
seen
people
gradually
returning
now
clearly
and
we
were
heading
or
headed
into
the
winter
period,
and
and-
and
you
know,
the
the
covid
19
pandemic
situation
continues
to
evolve.
So
I
think
what
we
recognize
is
that,
while
we,
what
we
do
know
is
that
the
estate
as
council
cooper
has
said
is
not
necessarily
fit
for
purpose.
It's
probably
a
bit
too
big.
It's
probably
you
know.
P
Certainly
it
needs
to
be
the
size
that
we
can
invest
in
appropriately,
and
what
we
equally
understand
is
that
it's
going
to
take
us
some
time
to
be
able
to
understand
how
services
will
use
our
estate.
How
staff
will
want
to
use
our
estate
and
therefore,
what
is
the
optimum
size
so
you're?
Absolutely
right?
It's
not
about
knee
jerk
reactions.
This
is
about
a
planned
approach
and
and
thinking
geographically,
where
we
need
buildings
and
the
types
of
buildings
that
we
need.
So
so,
yes,
I
think
rest
assured.
P
You
know
this
isn't
just
about
us
thinking
right.
We
need
to
we.
We
need
to
close
x
building,
so
so
we'll
close
it
in
terms
of
the
point
around
looking
at
particularly
council
housing
or
the
opportunities
for
conversion
of
our
properties.
P
I
think
there's
a
number
of
things
that
we
look
at
so,
first
of
all
when,
when
we're
considering
the
closure
of
a
building-
and
we
would
look
and
consider
what
the
either
redevelopment
or
conversion
potential
of
that
building
or
site
is
because
the
last
thing
we
want
to
do
is
cause
a
further
problem
down
the
road
whereby
we
close
a
building,
decommission
something
and
then
find
that
actually
we
we're
going
to
really
struggle
to
bring
that
back
into
use
or
sell
it
or
or
or
redevelop
it
in
some
way.
So
that's
that's.
P
We
also
work
very
closely
within
the
wide
drastic
management
and
regeneration
service,
which
includes
the
council,
housing
growth
team
and
they
we
we
ensure
that,
as
part
of
us,
considering
the
closure
of
any
buildings
that
that
that
team
are
cited
on
those
and
have
the
opportunity
to
have
that
that
cursory
look
at
them
and
and
and
that's
both
about
looking
at
the
conversion
potential,
but
also
the
redevelopment
potential
of
those
sites.
P
So
we
we
have
that,
as
in
in
terms
of
an
in-house
solution
for
those
buildings
now,
ultimately,
in
some
cases
either
because
of
demand
in
those
localities
or
because
of
the
the
specific
nature
of
the
site,
maybe
too
small-
and
it's
not
appropriate
to
be
used
for
for
that
program
and
then
clearly
that
is
when
we
would
look
to
then
any
other
requirements
that
the
council
may
have
or
release
and
threaten
disposal
through
the
capital
receive
program.
P
C
Thanks
for
that,
with
regards
to
conversion
you're
saying
that
it's
in
the
housing
team
and
they're,
looking
at
that,
my
question
is:
is
it
in
a
what
in
the
ward
area
and
as
the
council
has
been
involved,
because
you
know
they
might
be
saying
that
or
we
don't
think,
but
we
might
think
it
could
be
right
for
conversion
and
also
just
to
ask,
is
any
listed
buildings
involving
those
selling
off
that
draining
to
to
the
council?
C
You
know
because
obviously
the
private
sector
might
want
those
and
and
obviously
they
can
convert
them
thanks.
P
No
problem,
so
so
so
yes,
I
I,
I
think,
council
you,
you
make
a
very
valid
point
about
ensuring
that
there's
local
engagement
there,
I
think,
there's
a
few
a
few
stages.
I
suppose
that
from
a
council
housing
growth
team
that
they
have
to
go
through
when
they're
looking
at
a
site.
First
of
all,
it's
I,
I
suppose
the
demand
that
can
be
supported
through
housing,
leads
and
and
just
understanding
the
demographics
and
the
nature
of
accommodation
that's
required
in
in
different
localities.
P
I
think
the
second
point
is
then
obviously
around
what
the
capabilities
of
a
specific
building
being
converted
or
the
the
site
being
developed,
but
I
think
you're,
absolutely
right.
As
ward
members,
you
know
your
area
better
than
anyone
and
and
therefore
that
consultation
does
does
take
place.
P
What
once
there's
there's
an
awareness
of
the
schemes
that
could
come
come
forward
and
I
think
what
I'll
take
back
from
today
is
I'll
link
that
with
them
mark
denton,
who
heads
up
the
council,
housing
growth
team
and
and
just
make
sure
that
we
get
that
time
in
right
and
dovetail
it
together,
because
I
think
that's
then,
that
that's
really
important
and
in
terms
of
heritage
buildings.
P
They
we
as
a
council,
we,
we
have
a
large
number
of
listed
or
heritage
or
sensitive
buildings,
and
you
know
everyone
jumps
to
some
of
the
big
ticket
items.
But
we
have
a
lot
of
other
buildings
and
structures.
I
think
you
know
they.
P
They
do
require
more
careful
consideration
in
many
ways
and
I
think,
as
as
part
of
that
process,
we
we
have
to
acknowledge
that
we
may
not
necessarily
be
the
best
custodian
of
some
of
those
buildings
and
therefore
we
we
have
to
think
about
what
hap,
whether
one
we
have
a
use
for
them,
but
also
whether
there
would
be
interest
that
would
actually
sustain
those
buildings
into
the
future,
because
clearly,
what
we
don't
want
to
see
is
just
them
being
vacant
and
derelict
and
left
to
deteriorate.
P
So
we
certainly
need
that
they
do
require
further
consideration.
P
Work
very
closely
with
colleagues
in
the
council's
conservation
team
and
we
are
actually
doing
a
review
of
all
of
our
listed
buildings
at
the
moment,
because
I
think
they
you
know
in
in
some
cases
it
may
be
more
appropriate
for
us
to
find
a
use
for
for
those
buildings
and
given
some
of
the
sensitivities
so
and
and
in
return,
maybe
release
all
the
buildings
that
may
not
be
so
sensitive,
locally
or
and
and
not
necessarily
have
quite
the
same
attachment
from
a
local
resident
perspective.
P
So
the
there's
you
know
the
the
it's
definitely
a
consideration.
We
take
there's
a
balance
to
be
had
because
those
buildings
are
often
very
difficult
to
bring
up
to
the
the
right
environmental
sustainability
standards
and
they
all
also
often
require
additional
resources
in
terms
of
any
refurbishment
and
long-term
ownership
of
those
properties.
So
it's
certainly
something
that
has
to
be
really
really
considered
carefully,
because
you
know
if
we
get
it
wrong,
they
become
such
a
burden
on
the
local
authority.
F
Thank
you,
chad.
I
wonder
if
I
could
just
offer
some
reassurance
to
council
hamilton
and
other
scrutiny
board
members
around
the
the
housing
growth
team
and
the
work
that
they
undertake
to
ensure
that
we
do
have
consistently
numbers
of
new
council
housing
being
built
in
the
city
and
in
terms
of
the
work
of
asset
management,
whether
that
be
through
buildings
or
through
land.
F
We
try
and
assist
that
process
as
as
efficiently
as
we
can
and
and
offer
you
know
to
them
whatever
it
might
be,
that
they
need
to
get
in
place
to
make
sure
those
houses
can
be
built,
and
if
there
is
land
or
buildings,
that's
suitable,
then
then
I'm
sure
that
they
take
up
that
offer.
As
I
know
they
have
done
in
the
past
around
land
in
particular.
I
think
the
other
reassurance
I'd
just
like
to
give
is
about
the
time
the
the
that
you
talked
about.
F
So
are
we
rushing
in
to
sell
off?
You
know
our
buildings
and
I
can
just
give
you
some
absolute
assurance
that
there
is
no
rush,
that
this
process
takes
its
due
process
and
and
the
fullest
of
time
that
it
needs
to
some
buildings
take
longer
than
others
for
us
to
get
to
the
stage
when
that
it's
actual
either
a
decision
about
keeping
it
and
improving
it
or
whether
it
is
disposable
at
one
end
or
the
other.
But
some
of
the
that
process
can
take
a
number
of
years.
F
You
know,
and
so
and
quite
a
few
years
I've
got
to
say
so
it's
not
something
that
that
we're
rushing
to
lightly
at
all.
I
think
the
other
thing
I'd
say
is
you
know
when
we
we're
looking
and
we're
talking
about
these
buildings
that
we're,
if,
if
we
could
start
with
a
blank
sheet
of
paper
on
a
map
and
decide
where
what
we
want,
what
we
need
as
a
council
and
plot
out
where
those
buildings
would
be.
You
know
that
would
be.
F
You
know
a
great
place
for
us
to
to
make
a
start.
But
we
haven't.
We've
got
these
buildings
and
we
have
to
try
and
make
the
most
of
them,
not
just
for
the
council,
but
for
the
city,
our
partners
and
for
our
residents
too.
So
you
know
it's
not
an
easy
ask.
I've
got
to
say,
but
you
know
the
team
are
doing
the
best
on
that.
One.
A
Thank
you
counselor
con,
so
conrad
heart,
brook
art,
sorry,
heartbroke
story,
counselor.
I
That's
absolutely
fine.
A
couple
couple
of
questions.
I'm
aware
there
is
a
bit
of
a
sort
of
not
dichotomy
but
there's
a
sort
of
there's
two
separate
things
pulling
pulling
here.
There
is
a
lack
of
certainty
around
ways
of
working
in
in
in
time
ahead.
There's
also,
let's
face
it.
You
know.
Government,
council,
financial
constraints,
which
are
real
and
do
needs,
do
need
to
be
faced
up
to
the
it
doesn't.
I
Is
the
council
looking
to
identify
properties
in
each
of
its
kind
of
worlds
or
areas
that
might
be
suitable
for
that,
and
the
other
question
is
and
is
I
apologize?
It
is
slightly
loaded
to
the
local
situation,
but
if
there
is
no
rush
to
sell
council
properties
for
the
property
in
my
world,
the
russell
council
offices,
I
think
it's
a
deadline
of
the
10th
of
december
for
submission
that
doesn't
quite
square
with.
What's
just
being
said,.
F
Yeah,
if
I
could
just
answer
the
first
point
about
a
rush
around
rothwell
council
offices
or
the
building
there,
which
has
been
empty
now
since
2017,
I
think
and
has
been
on
the
surplus
buildings
list
since
then.
So
if
you
call
that
russian
councillor
heartbroke,
I'm
afraid
I
don't
agree
with
you.
P
I
think
the
only
thing
I
was
going
to
say
it
was
the
point
I've
previously
mentioned
really
about
you
know
we
we
are
in
that
an
evolving
world,
and
I
think
that
is
where
we
we
do
need
to
see
how
services
will
be
delivered
moving
forward,
and
I
think,
in
that
respect,
what
we're
not
doing
is
going
around
word
by
ward
and
saying
we've
got
to
make
x
number
or
come
out
of
x
number
of
buildings,
because
different
worlds
have
different
numbers
of
buildings
and
and
and
equally
different
demands,
and
so
this
is
where
I,
I
suppose,
we've
had
and
it's
grown
over.
P
The
last
two
three
years
is
that
we've
got
directorate
leads
within
the
asset
management
service
who
work
with
each
of
the
directors
and
through
that
process,
we've
really
been
focusing
on
getting
the
directorate's
understanding
to
each
direction.
It's
understanding
to
a
level
a
consistent
level
around
what
they're
they're
occupying
as
a
director
and
as
you
can
imagine,
some
directors
have
many
more
properties
than
others,
so
communities,
environment
and
housing.
Clearly,
you
know
with
all
the
parts
and
countryside
prophecies
the
the
the
waste
depots
and
and
waste
facilities,
etc,
etc.
P
They
occupy
a
large
number
of
buildings,
that's
not
to
say
that
you
would
want
to
come
out
of
the
mall,
but
it's
looking
with
the
services
around
how
they
can
how
they
will
want
to
work
in
the
future
and
how
they
will
want
to
deliver
now.
That
will
then
inevitably
come
down
to
have
it
having
to
say
well.
P
Actually,
we've
probably
got
too
many
buildings
in
a
certain
geography
and
then
looking
at
how
we
can
improve
the
utilization
of
the
buildings
that
we're
going
to
retain
long
term
and-
and
that
might
mean
that
that
we
have
to
relocate
service
delivery,
including
maybe
some
frontline
service
delivery
in
the
future
from
one
building
to
another.
P
But
you
know
that
that's
in
the
past,
I
think
we
we
we
could
have
potentially
been
criticized
for
being
very
building-led,
and
that's
certainly
not
where
we,
where
the
the
new
strategy
and
certainly
how
we're
working
is
now
it's
very
much
around
the
the
services
informing
us
about
how
they're
going
to
work
and
then
we'll
come
up
with
a
state
solution
around
that.
I
Yeah
I
just
like
to
come
back
to
councillor
cooper.
I
believe
the
officers
were
closed
in
2017,
but
I
don't
think
they
were
identified
for
potential
disposal
in
2017
and
obviously,
we've
had
a
pandemic
in
that
time
and
an
active
group
working
working
to
find
out
a
proposal
to
do
exactly
what
the
council
does
so
yeah,
I'm
not
looking
to
kind
of
you
know,
get
any
sort
of
politics
into
it.
I'm
just
trying
to
get
to
a
solution
where
you
know
a
valuable
community
asset
can
be.
A
Can
can
I
just
come
in
so
conscious
that
that's
probably
almost
case
work,
so,
can
I
ask
councillor
cooper
and
cancer
heart
book
to
discuss
this
outside
of
that
meeting?
Your
point
is
is
a
good
example
as
as
one
example,
but
we
do
need
to
make
sure
that
the
genetic
things
that
we
say
happen
on
individual
individual
projects
is
that
unconscious
also
accounts
for
er
cooper
needs
to
leave
at
half
12.
F
Yeah,
if
I
can
just
say
actually,
it
has
been
on
the
surplus
list
since
2017
on
the
surplus
list,
doesn't
mean
that
we're
putting
them
to
disposal.
Actually,
it's
where
we
start
active
engagement
with
the
community
to
see
what
that
might
be
in
terms
of
need
going
forward
and
other
directorates
as
well.
So
all
that
work
has
been
undergone
since
2017
chair
just
so
that
other
scrutiny
board
members
are
clear
about
that
too.
But
I'm
happy
to
take
the
discussion
outside
of
scrutiny
on
that.
B
Thank
you
chair.
Can
I
just
ask
a
question
about
community
asset
transfer,
and
I
know
that
it's
happened
for
years
and
and
some
of
the
groups
that
have
managed
to
secure
that
are
quite
big
or
they're
already
in
receipt
of
council
funding.
Just
wondered,
I
mean
as
world
members
we
all
know,
there's
kind
of
smaller
groups
who
perhaps
as
standalone
groups
wouldn't
be
able
to,
but
is
there
a
consideration
perhaps
to
build
up
consolia
in
a
world
which
which
would
strike
me
that
you
could
then
cover
lots
of
what's
needed
in
that
world?
B
You'd
obviously
have
a
lead
partner,
but
I
just
wanted
to
consideration
because
we
as
world
members,
I'm
sure
we
all
know
who
they
are
and
we
could
work
together
with
them
to
build
that
consortium
approach.
P
Yeah
good
question
and
I
think
community
asset
transfers
have
demonstrated
on
in
some
buildings
that
very
successful.
Actually,
so
you
know
things
like
bramley
baths,
eden
town
hall,
some
of
the
community
centres,
so
kent
mayor
community
center,
where
these
community
spaces
have
coordinated
some
of
that
work.
P
So
I
think
what
we're
open
to
is
a
variety
of
models
as
to
how
things
can
come
forward
and
clearly
what
what
we're
very
keen
to
to
understand
and
when,
when
people
come
forward
with
proposals,
is
that
they've
really
they've
got
the
capacity
both
in
terms
of
resources
on
the
ground
as
well
as
and
the
financial
resources
to
be
able
to
to
deliver
a
sustainable
community
asset?
P
Chancellor,
because
there's
one
thing
about
being
able
to
just
put
put
something
right
if
you've
and
if
you
can
get
past
that
stage,
it's
how
you
then
sustain
it
into
year.
One
year
two
year,
five,
etcetera
and-
and
so
we
and
and
recognizing
that
it's
very
it
is
often
very
difficult
for
smaller
groups
to
come
forward
with
proposals.
P
We
are
working
with
the
the
the
communities
team
at
the
moment
to
look
at
how
we
can
we.
We
can,
maybe,
as
a
council,
provide
more
support
for
some
of
those
groups.
P
I
think
it's
worth
saying
that
there's
a
number
of
organizations
out
there,
though
such
as
locality
and
who
can
provide
support
to
community
groups
as
well
if
they
are
looking
at
community
asset
transfers,
and
so
so
you
know,
if
there's
specific
cases
that
you
want
to
discuss
more
than
happy
for
you
to
contact
me
outside
of
of
scoops
me,
and
we
can.
We
can
look
at
what
that
that
might
look
like
in
the
support
that
that
may
be
required.
P
But,
like
I
say,
ultimately,
what
what
we're
really
interested
in
is
making
sure
that
communities
are
able
to
to
sustain
a
building
and
but
also
that
they're
not
overexposing
themselves,
because
I
think
people
can
become
very
wrapped
up
in
the
vision
which
is
really
really
good.
But
you
you
know
it.
We,
we
have
got
to
be
mindful
that
you
know
in
owning
a
building
and
running
a
building.
You've
got
so
many
statutory
obligations
to
protect
health
and
safety,
etc.
B
Thank
you.
I
would
welcome
a
conversation
outside
of
there
and
it's
kind
of
dependent
on
the
size
of
the
building.
Isn't
it
as
well
like
the
one
at
rothwell's,
the
council
offices
and
huge,
I
know,
there's
some
small
pockets
where
a
consortium
of
small
people
could
perhaps
take
that
over
much
more
easily.
So
it's
almost
too
teared
in
my
head,
which
is
a
strange
and
wonderful
place.
Sometimes
thank
you.
A
E
Thanks
jer,
just
a
comment
really.
I
think
one
of
the
things
I've
talked
about
is
those
people
working
in
different
communities,
because
for
some
of
us
we
have
to
come
a
fair
way
into
the
city
center,
but
also
there
are
people
that
won't
want
to
be
necessarily
won't
have
the
suitable
environment
to
work
at
home.
E
I've
got
two
young
kids
and
I
don't
necessarily
want
to
spend
every
day
working
in
that
environment
and
I'm
sure
there
are
many
people
that
work
for
the
council
that
may
not
have
office
in
their
house
or
they've
got
a
few
of
them
working
at
home.
E
So
I
think
that
pilot
project
around
that's
mentioned
in
the
report
around
looking
at
the
community
hubs,
is
really
valuable
and
I
think
it
an
aside
on
that
is,
I
think,
we've
seen
over
the
last
18
months
how
valuable
that
that
community
hubs
program
has
been
the
fact
that
we've
been
looking
at-
and
I
know,
asset
management
have
been
involved
in
this.
Quite
a
lot.
E
Looking
at
bringing
services
to
people
rather
than
out
so
selling
some
buildings
or
disposing
of
some
buildings
in
the
city
centre
has
led
to
actually
ingrained
services
within
neighborhoods,
and
I
think
that's
really
valuable
and
a
really
really
good
way
forward,
and
I
know
that's
based
on
the
principles
that
come
out
of
this
approach.
So
just
to
comment
to
say.
Thanks
for
that,
chair.
A
D
Yes,
just
to
follow
on
from
through
your
chat,
what
counselor
cahill
said
so
on
saturday
I
was
at,
and
I
think
this
the
scheme
of
using
community
assets
and
and
so
on
is
really
good.
But
I
was
at
the
the
library
in
seacroft
on
saturday
and
we
were
faced
with
this
dilemma
of
heating
the
building,
but
also
having
all
the
windows
open
and
and
the
the
drawers
open
and
everybody's
dying
of
hypothermia
at
the
same
time
as
trying
to
protect
themselves
from
covert.
D
So
because
I
think
it's
gonna
it's
that
this
winter
is
going
to
be
quite
cold
and
the
library
is
somewhere
where
people
who
can't
afford
to
heat
their
own
homes
perhaps
can
go.
But
it's
gonna
be
a
slight
problem.
If
you
can
have
if
the
place
is
actually
too
cold
to
sit
in.
D
So
it's
only
a
comment
in
a
way,
but
I've
taken
it
up
with
the
library's
star
section
to
see
what
can
be
done.
Health
and
safety,
wise.
A
I
I
don't
know
if
you
can
comment
on
that
specifically
mark,
but
keep
I
mean,
we've
had
it
in
this
building
ourselves.
Our
last
meeting,
I
think
it's
councillor,
venna,
was
here
and
wasn't
happy
with
the
temperature
in
the
room.
Understandably,
it
was,
it
was
really
cold,
but
the
the
circulation
system
can
actually
do
that
for
us.
So
I
think
there
is
a
piece
around
our
buildings.
P
Yeah,
it's
not
something
that
comes
under
my
remit,
so
slowly,
but
and
we
are
working
very
closely
with
facilities
management
who
are
who
are
doing
a
lot
of
monitoring
of
air
quality
within
the
buildings
and
and
obviously
then
working
through
how
some
of
the
some
of
the
dilemmas
there
counselor
jenkins
that
you've
just
talked
about.
A
Some
of
it,
I
think,
is
probably
about
sharing
knowledge,
making
sure
we
know
which
systems
bring
in
external
air
anyway,
but
I
think
you're
right.
It's
not
probably
not
direct
to
your
department,
I'm
gonna
bring
in
councillor
flynn
next.
R
Thanks
andrew
yeah,
a
couple
of
things
it
covers
both
of
both
of
the
subjects
you're
on
about,
but
just
as
a
starter
sort
of
ten.
I
was
just
wondering
why
no
one
from
my
team
was
here,
he's
gone.
R
A
I
mean
we
have.
We
have
had
that,
but
they're
not
here
today,
they're
not
here
today,
you're
right
bob.
Do
you
ever
comment
on
that.
J
R
I
I
I
asked,
because
it
took
me
two
hours
to
get
here
this
morning.
Talking
about
public
transport,
three
buses
never
turned
not
going
home
and
digging
my
car
out
to
get
here
to
find
out.
My
ipad
isn't
working.
I
can't
access
the
the
council
server
and
neither
can
the
lead
member,
so
the
lead
member
and
the
shadow
lead
member
can't
actually
read
the
papers
for
this,
which
is
why
there's
crap
all
over
my
sort
of
table
here.
R
I've
been
working
working
from
home,
agile
working,
I've
got
another
expression
for
it,
which
you
won't
use
here,
and
working
in
an
office
basically
depend
largely
on
I.t,
so
the
papers
actually
talk
in
terms
of
I
think,
meeting
rooms,
hybrid
meeting
rooms
having
to
be
tested
and
reviewed
and
various
other
things,
a
lot
of
money
going
into
it
infrastructure
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
If
we
haven't
actually
got
the
it
in
place,
working
and
tested
on
all
the
rest
of
it.
I
accept
that
we're
not
rushing
to
re.
R
F
I
don't
think
it's
really
for
matt
swanstrozzi,
you
know
he's
not
from
ids,
but
I
do
understand
that
there's
been
different
kind
of
focuses
to
the
different
meetings
that
you've
had
a
scrutiny
and
ideas
of
form
part
of
the
previous
meeting
and
did
attend
and
and
spoke
around
their
work.
F
This
really
was
around
the
the
estate
looking
at
our
estate
and
buildings
and
ways
that
we
need
to
look
at
that
going
forward,
as
well
as
the
staff
hr
to
do
with
the
staffing
and
their
their
responses
to
the
surveys
and
how
we
might
look
to
agile
working.
F
I
accept
councillor
flynn
that
there's
a
there's
a
huge
element
of
of
it
expertise
needed
within
that,
but
that's
the
reason
that
that
they're
not
here
today,
because
I
think
that
there
are
slightly
different
focuses-
and
I
do
I
accept
that
we
have
issues
with
I.t
but
we're
on
a
transformational
program
with
our
ids
work
and
that's
still
ongoing
at
the
moment.
F
So
you
know
occasionally
we're
going
to
have
blips
where
we
can't
access
it
and
and
need
to
use
other
means,
such
as
the
paper
that
you've
got
today.
I
relied
on
previous
emails
to
to
get
my
papers,
so
you
know
that
there
are
the
different
ways
of
doing
it,
but
yeah
apologies
that
it's
not
in
the
right
format.
For
you
today,
councillor
flynn.
R
I
I
understand
that
debbie
and
I
I
fully
understand
it's
nothing
to
do
with
you.
I
was
I
was
hoping
to
see
it
here
this
morning
for
obvious
reasons,
but
they're,
not
obviously
here,
but
just
one
of
the
issues.
One
of
the
things
that's
actually
in
the
report,
talks
about
and
I'll
read
it
out.
R
A
I
take
it
as
a
comment,
but
I
I
would.
I
would
say
that
it's
interesting,
that
it's
not
working
when
you're
in
the
office,
and
so
the
issue
isn't
necessarily
around
agile
working,
it's
an
issue
with
the
it
system.
More
generally,
I
was.
R
A
Well,
this
this
question
is
about
estate
management
estate,
rationalization
and
employment,
well-being,
risks
and,
and
it
is
a
risk
and
it
come
in
ids-
are
coming
in
february,
because
this
is
one
element
of
the
inquiry.
R
Okay,
I
I've
passed
that
one
I'll
go
on
to
on
to
the
the
staff
surveys
now,
where
graham
you've
quoted
a
lot
of
statistics
and
61
being
happy
or
fairly
happy
or
whatever.
But
that's
based
on
a
very
small
percentage
of
surveys
returned.
Is
that
right.
Q
Yeah,
what
we've
found
over
the
the
year,
the
years
that
we've
been
doing
the
surveys,
probably
in
the
region
of
25,
to
a
third
of
staff?
You
know,
take
part
in
the
well-being
surveys,
but
you've.
R
Extrapolated,
you
know
those
figures
out
which
is
not
really
scientific.
To
do.
Have
you
any
way
of
knowing
whether
the
four
surveys
of
you've
got
the
responses
from
the
same
people
or
are
they
different
people?
And
if
you
have
any
way
of
knowing
how
many
surveys
came
in
from
the
people
who
are
using
new
ways
of
working
or
the
people
who
are
actually
coming
into
the
office
or
working
where
they
normally
work?.
Q
Yeah
I
can,
I
can
provide
the
of
data
for
your
council
flynn
in
terms
of
answering
some
of
these
questions,
but
you're
right.
The
majority
of
people
who
do
tend
and
have
completed
the
surveys
have
been
those
working
from
home.
Mostly,
but
increasingly,
we
have
had
a
greater
proportion
of
people
in
front
line
roles
who've
also
taken
part.
Q
So
so
we
work
in
we're
working
on
that
all
the
time
to
get
the
response
rate
up
and
also
to
make
sure
that
there's
a
full
full
completion
by
all
the
different
staff
types
that
we
we
we
have
in
terms
of
the
question
about
do,
I
know
if
it's
the
same
people
completing
the
survey
because
we've
had
between
you
know
three
and
a
half
thousand
four
five
thousand
people
completing
the
service
time.
R
Yeah,
I
just
cautioned
against
using
the
statistics
from
a
relatively
small
sample
which
isn't
scientific.
We
all
know
the
reasons
why
it's
not
scientific
as
a
basis
for
you
know
for
producing
sort
of
any
further
work.
Just
in
closing
mark,
you
start
off
by
saying
that
it
was
all
based
around
providing
quality
of
service
to
the
public
and
you'll
know
both
of
you'll
know,
because
that's
a
thing
I
bang
on
about
all
the
time.
R
How
do
you
know
that
we're
actually
providing
a
high
quality
of
service
to
the
public?
We've
got
lots
of
surveys
from
members
of
staff
lots
of
people
moving
around
the
vast
majority
of
every
port
that
I
see
is
about
how
it
affects
staff
or
how
it
affects
the
estate
or
this
that
the
other
there's
a
there's,
a
recognition
that
there's
a
quality
of
service
that
happens
to
be
given
to
the
custody
continues
to
be
given
to
the
members
of
the
public.
R
P
I
I
can
come
back
in
on
that
initially,
I
suppose,
so
I
I
suppose
in
terms
of
that
quality
of
service
question,
that
is
one
for
the
individual
services
to
really
consider,
and-
and
I
think
that
is
the
reason
why
we've
got
the
arrangements
now
that
we
do
have
between
my
asset
management
service,
I
suppose,
and
each
of
the
directorates,
to
ensure
that
that
we
have
that
and
that
I
suppose
the
estate
is
a
facilitator
and
and
therefore
you
know,
the
the
services
can
focus
on
thinking
about
how
they
deliver
the
services,
whether
those
services
are
right
and
whether
they're
achieving
the
outcomes
that
they
want
to
achieve
and
then
clearly
we
need
to
fit
in
with
with
how
the
estate
works.
P
I
suppose,
if
I
can
just
pick
up
on
two
two
other
points
I
think
in
terms
of
service
delivery,
we
we've
inevitably
as
part
of
these
conversations,
get
very
focused
on
the
office
accommodation,
and
I
think
what
we've
also
got
to
be
really
mindful
of
is
we.
P
We
have
a
wide
variety
of
other
buildings
and
sites
right
across
the
city,
particularly
depots,
which
have
probably
not
even
seen
levels
of
investment
that
we
we've
seen
in
in
offices
such
as
the
civic
and
marion,
and
I
think
that
very
much
comes
back
to
that.
Frontline
service
delivery
and
now
we're
delivering
the
right
services
or
of
and
good
quality
services
to
people
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
going
to
be
well.
P
We're
not
going
to
be,
we
are
looking
very
closely
at
is
how
we
can
ensure
that
our
depot
sites
are
a
see
in
the
same
site,
same
type
of
consideration
that
we
we
see
and
have
been
undertaken
around
our
offices
and
that
might
well
be
about
looking
at
one.
Whether
we've
got
too
many
depots.
P
But
then
it's
also
about
making
sure
that
those
depots
and
other
facilities
are
fit
for
purpose
and
unable
to
support
that
that
service
delivery
and
the
other
point
I
don't
want
to
pull
along
the
it
and
point
council
flynn,
you
you're
right.
It
is
it's
absolutely
fundamental
in
terms
of
and
making
sure
that
the
the
the
workspace
that
we
have
works
and-
and
the
key
component
of
that
is-
is
around
the
it,
but
also
the
wider.
P
It
infrastructure
and
and,
as
you
has
been
has
been
alluded
to,
there's
been
a
lot
of
investment
and
change
over
the
course
of
the
last
year,
18
months
into
microsoft,
365
ms
teams
etc,
and
that
has
really
improved
the
the,
albeit
not
today
improved
the
the
environment
that
that
we
all
work
in.
P
I
suppose
the
point
that
you
were
picking
up
from
the
report
was
specifically
really
talking
about
our
estate
management
systems
because
we're
actually
what
we've,
what
we
have
is
quite
a
present,
quite
a
disparate
range
of
of
different
I.t
systems
that
support
the
investment
portfolio,
the
land,
gazetteer
or
lanternia
system.
P
And
then,
unfortunately,
we
have
a
lot
of
spreadsheets
and
what
we
have
been
doing
and
and
continuing
to
do
is
work
with
our
colleagues
in
ids
to
bring
forward
and
explore
what
what
we're
terming
at
the
moment,
an
enterprise
estate
management
system,
which
is
trying
to
bring
each
of
these
disparate
components
into
a
single
system,
not
just
for
asset
management,
but
something
then
that
other
services,
such
as
legal
finance
facilities,
management
and
and
and
others
beyond
those
can
can
then
access
for
real-time
live
data
and
information
about
the
estate
rather
than
us
having
to
go
searching
through
a
spreadsheet.
P
A
I'm
can
I,
just
just
in
terms
of
the
data
that
counselor
flynn
is
talking
about,
is
the
point
around
the
data
in
terms
of
service
delivery
does
feel
like
there
is
a
challenge
for
a
state
management
team
yourselves
to
get
some
kind
of
data,
at
least
some
base
data
from
the
directorate,
so
we
can
look
at
whether
it
has
improved
or
otherwise
services
over
time.
So
I
just
put
that
as
a
comment
and
a
and
a
challenge
and
council
cooper,
you
want
to
come
in
as
well.
F
Yeah
sorry,
china
and
I
am
going
to
have
to
go
after
this
comment,
unfortunately,
but
but
just
to
say
about
the
the
service,
the
impact
on
the
service,
and
is
it
of
any
of
this,
and
also
what
that
quality
of
service
might
look
like.
I
suppose
it
depends
on
the
purpose
of
the
building.
So
if
the
building
is
a
service
frontline
service
forecast,
then
it's
the
work.
That's
done
with
the
directorate
around
that
that
service.
F
So
perhaps
that
data
then
needs
to
come
here
or
that
information,
at
least
around
the
point,
the
purpose
of
the
building
and
its
history
and
how
that
service
delivery
has
compared
in
terms
of
quality
and
and
also
in
terms
of
p,
if
it's
front
facing
in
terms
of
people
and
residents
using
it
as
well,
and
what
that
experience
has
been
like
as
well,
but
often
we
may
be
talking
about
buildings
that
are
not
service
focused.
F
So
in
that
case,
then,
you
know
there's
a
there's
two
two
types
of
building
that
we're
looking
at
in
in
in
those
terms
really,
but
can
I
thank
scrutiny
for
that
inquiry
into
into
this?
I
think
it's.
It's
really
important
that
scrutiny
members
have
sight
and
of
all
these
issues
that
it
is
transparent
and
open.
The
work
that's
ongoing
at
the
moment
within
asset
management
around
all
of
this,
but
if
there's
one
play
I'd,
ask
you
just
to
remember
that
we
need
to
be
flexible,
especially
in
these
challenging
times.
F
You
know
of
difficult
financial
times,
but
also
within
within
terms
of
the
pandemic.
Who
knows
where
we're
going
to
be
in
three
weeks
time
at
the
next
prime
minister's
you
know,
press
conference
and
what
we
might
be
asked
to
do
at
that
point
in
time.
So
we
also
as
a
local
authority,
need
to
remain
flexible
in
terms
of
our
use
of
buildings
as
well,
but
I
apologize.
R
It's
all
right,
debbie,
you
can
shoot
off.
It
was
really
honest
to
say
I
I
absolutely
agree
with
the
rationalization
of
the
estate
program
and
if
anyone
can
work
anywhere
other
than
the
workplace
and
do
it
efficiently
and
effectively
and
in
the
same
ways
they
do
if
they,
if
they
were
in
the
workplace,
then
I'm
more
than
happy
with
it.
R
I
won't
mention
bins
once
something
else
emptied
or
anything
else
empty
and
all
the
rest
of
it,
and-
and
you
know,
if
I'm,
if
I'm
struggling
to
get
a
hold
of
somebody-
and
I
am
trying
to
get
hold
of
an
officer
on
a
friday
afternoon-
it's
like
finding
a
needle
in
a
haystack.
It's
absolutely
impossible,
don't
talk
to
me
about
teams
or
skype
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
They
all
disappear.
R
A
You're
done
okay!
Thank
you.
Okay,
just
just
thank
you
for
the
raising
those
points
and
the
other
point
I
think,
you're.
Probably
thinking
of
counselling,
is
that
actually
all
us
all
the
work
we
do,
whether
it's
specifically
front
line
or
even
if
it's
back
office
accounting
functions
actually
is
about
service
delivery
for
our
residents.
Everything,
and
if
it's,
if
it's
not,
we've
probably
got
our
focus
a
little
bit
squiffy.
A
So
just
just
a
question
for
graham,
I
think
probably
I
just
want
it's
around
our
strategy
for
hr
policies
for
homeworking,
and
I
guess
the
questions
we've
asked
about
before
around.
How
do
we
support
junior
staff
so
things
like?
Can
we
require
people
to
come
into
the
office
to
do
support
and
team
building
stuff
and
have
we
or
are
we
doing
something
around
training
our
managers
for
managing
people?
A
Who
you
only
see
once
a
month
once
every
other
month,
and
I
think
that's
a
really
key
element
of
the
management
structure,
which
is
sometimes
probably
easier
to
do
when
you
can
see
someone.
Q
Yeah,
thanks
to
our
counselor,
we
are
currently
working
up
some
proposals
which
we
can
bring
back
here
to
scrutiny
around
training,
not
just
of
manageable
teams
in
terms
of
new
ways
of
working
that'll
cover
a
whole
range
of
things.
Q
You
know
in
terms
of
performance,
getting
the
best
from
the
team
getting
the
best
from
the
80
you'll,
be
the
full
suite
of
different
angles
that
we'll
address
we're
in
conversations
with
trade
unions,
as
we
speak
around,
why
the
policy
areas
and
there's
national
negotiations
taking
place
around
future
work
and
policies,
and
particularly
that
bit
around
how
training
has
changed
and
needs
to
train
change,
to
support
new
starters,
those
people
who
are
early
in
their
careers.
Q
B
Thank
you
chair.
It's
just
a
couple
of
comments
for
me
when
I
think,
whilst
resident
satisfaction
and
happiness
should
be
at
the
forefront
of
everything
we
do.
I
think
sometimes
we
assume
what
that
looks
like,
because
some
residents
would
never
want
to
come
into
one
of
our
buildings
and
queue
and
stand
in
line
with
other
people.
B
B
I
think
that's
about
what
suits
the
resident,
and
I
think
we
just
need
to
be
mindful
of
that
and
and
not
assume
that
change
is
always
bad
without
doing
perhaps
a
wide,
a
bit
of
consultation
just
to
comment
on
the
staff
satisfaction
survey.
I've
got
to
disagree
with
you
because
I
think
a
77
return
is
is
one
of
the
highest
satisfaction
surveys.
I've
ever
seen,
and
I've
kind
of
been
involved
with
lots
and
lots
of
them.
So
I
just
wanted
to
say
well
done
for
getting
that
many
back.
B
Q
And
I,
if
I
can,
I
just
want
to
offer
some
reassurance
around
that
in
terms
of
our
decision-making
going
forward.
Remember.
That
survey
is
just
one
aspect
of
a
much
fuller
and
broader
communication
engagement
piece.
We
do
and
have
been
doing
since
the
spring,
so
things
like
our
our
team
team
engagement,
one-to-one
check-ins
with
all
staff
building
into
the
appraisals
where
we
know
we
get
98
completions,
where
wellbeing's
a
real
focus.
So
that
is
just
one
element
of
a
much
broader
engagement
piece.
That's
informing
all
of
our
decisions
going
forward.
A
Thank
you
graeme
and
just
on
the
point
about
how
we
contact
or
people
contact
the
council,
the
contact
center
coming
to
a
a
members
meeting
first
in
december
and
then
to
a
public
meeting
in
february.
So
we
had
to
talk
about
the
different
aspects
and
different
ways
of
contacting
the
council.
A
Okay,
I
can't
see
anyone
else
indicating
so
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
we'll
note,
councillor
flynn's
comments
about
ids
and
the
system
to
make
sure
they're
aware
of
that
before
they
turned
up
in
february.
A
A
I
A
Waiting
patiently
alex
well
speak
for
yourself,
counselor
have
more
time,
okay,
alex.
If
you
can
assume
we've
all
read
the
paper
if
you've
got
anything
specifically,
you
want
to
highlight.
Please
do
that
and
then
we'll
move
into
questions.
O
O
Some
of
the
progress
that's
been
made
and
some
of
the
further
work
that
needs
to
be
done,
and
I
suppose
what
we
were
sort
of
stressing
is
that
our
patterns
of
demand
have
been
distorted
still
by
the
effects
of
the
pandemic,
in
terms
of
not
so
much
the
pandemic
itself
now,
but
the
sort
of
the
recovery
work
and
the
backlogs
that
services
are
dealing
with,
and
I
think
it's
probably
worth
saying
as
well-
live
at
the
moment,
some
of
the
winter
pressures
that
are
affecting
especially
social
care,
but
nevertheless
taking
all
that
into
consideration.
O
The
the
spend
looks
as
if
it
will
be
about
the
same
as
it
was
last
year.
At
the
mid-year
point,
there's
some
comments
on
some
of
the
larger
services
and
I
think
in
venice,
some
of
the
frontline
services
they're
the
areas
that
we
do
need
to
do
some
more
work
with,
but
yeah
I
will
mention
ideas.
Ids
is
an
example
of
I've
shown
where
they've
reduced
some
of
their
reliance
on
agency
workers
by
bringing
some
of
that
work
in-house.
O
So
there's
a
positive
note
there
around
some
of
the
spend
in
terms
of
the
the
use
of,
I
guess
very
specific
technical
experts
that
come
in
and
support,
and
I've
also
mentioned
highways
which
actually
have
a
very
low
agency
in
overtime
spend,
but
as
a
service,
they
do
commission
quite
considerable
sort
of
large-scale
capital
infrastructure
programs
and
there's
an
example
there
of
the
flood
alleviation
scheme
where
there
is
quite
a
high
spend
on
consultants.
O
So
it's
not
always
just
agency
workers
as
individuals
coming
into
our
workforce,
sometimes
we're
buying
a
whole
package
of
the
service
to
to
support
us
with
a
you
know,
a
big,
one-off
program.
O
So
there's
some
comments
on
the
services
and
then
the
report
goes
on
and
identifies
some
of
the
issues
that
still
need
to
be
looked
at
with
services,
with
some
budget
proposals
that
we're
now
preparing,
which
would
provide
for
some
reorientation
of
some
of
the
hr
team
to
work
with
services
in
a
much
more
targeted
way
to
look
at
some
of
the
things
that
we
know
can
help
reduce
some
of
the
cover
requirements
that
would
save
money
in
terms
of
I
guess
cash.
O
So
one
of
the
aspects
of
work
is
to
look
at
things
like
sickness
and
attendance.
Whether
or
not
there
are
any
backlogs
in
terms
of
processing
that
and
to
support
managers
around.
That
you've
heard
a
little
bit
already
today
about
some
of
the
well-being
initiatives,
but
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
do
is
to
make
that
relevant
to
the
front
line
workers.
So
you
know
if
people
are
working
part-time
and
remotely,
we
need
to
be
able
to
sort
of
make
sure
that
that
reaches
everybody
to
look
at.
O
Maybe
things
like
leave.
There
is
still
a
carryover
of
leave,
that's
still
affecting
certain
services
and
whether
or
not
we
could
be
a
bit
smarter
with
some
of
the
lead
booking
and
to
look
at
some
of
the
recruitment
processes
to
see
whether
they
can
be
a
little
bit
slicker,
especially
in
a
tightened
recruitment
market,
and
to
look
at
some
of
the
sort
of
underlying
questions
about
whether
or
not
the
road,
the
rotors,
that
we
have
robust
enough
to
alleviate
the
need
for
extra
cover.
O
And
in
doing
all
this,
we
don't
want
to
want
to
go
in
and
do
a
sort
of
a
lot
of
support
for
managers.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
managers
are
equipped
to
to
deal
with
it
in
the
future
and
then.
Finally,
the
report
talks
a
little
bit
about
the
eli
program,
because
I
understand
the
board
we're
interested
in.
O
I
guess,
have
we
got
enough
controls
in
place
to
to
prevent
a
rehiring
of
staff,
so
we
had
around
800
staff
leaving,
and
the
report
goes
into
some
of
the
processes
in
terms
of
how
business
cases
for
eli
were
scrutinized
to
ensure
that
not
only
they
saved
enough
money,
but
they
were
sustainable
in
terms
of
we
weren't
letting
staff
go
where
we
knew
we'd
have
to
replace
them,
and
then
it
talks
about
some
of
the
control
measures.
O
In
terms
of
you
know,
where
posts
are
deleted,
how
budgets
are
adjusted
to
reflect
the
savings
that
need
to
be
generated
through
eli
and
how
we
have
checks
both
in
terms
of
post
releases,
but
also
when
restructures
occur,
to
to
make
sure
that
that's
in
place,
and
I
think
the
the
proof
of
the
pudding
is
that
we're
probably
at
the
starting
level
that
we
forecast
would
we
expect,
with
a
large
number
of
staff
leaving
in
in
the
back
end
of
last
year
and
that
now,
both
showing
in
terms
of
there
hasn't
been
a
growth
in
head
count
and
equally
that
we
are
still
saving
money
on
the
on
the
staffing
budget.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
A
Just
a
comment
waiting
for
people
to
indicate
it's
interesting,
eight
point,
paragraph
eight
a
and
we
can
see
the
sickness
levels
creeping
up
and
I
don't
know
if
that's
a
an
indication
to
over
well
being
about
assuming
you're
working
with
graham
on
that
sort
of
item
I'll.
Leave
that
as
a
comment
and
bring
in
councillor
carlyle
who's
indicated.
E
Thanks,
chad,
I
guess
it's
more
of
a
comment
really
or
or
a
question
of
what
the
best
focus
is
here,
because
we
had
a
discussion
over
agency
workers
in
overtime
previously
and
there's
always
this
difficulty
of
what's
the
right
number
in
which
service,
because,
as
alluded
to
in
the
report,
and
probably
quite
timely,
some
of
the
services
we're
talking
about
expertise
and
specialist
consultants,
that
would
cost
a
lot
more
money.
Were
we
to
pay
them
all
year
round
and
and
it's
much
better
to
bring
in
that
when
you
need
it.
E
E
So
I
think,
when
we
look
at
the
figures
on
this
report,
it's
really
hard
to
know
what
is
an
incredibly
valuable
service,
that
our
teams
are
providing
or
we're
building
in
expertise
in
order
to
provide
that
and
what
is
additional
overtime
or
agency
spend.
That
is
an
issue
with
being
able
to
deliver
what
what
residents
and
leads
could
expect
without
them,
and
I
think
that's
what's
really
hard
about
these
numbers.
We
may
be
able
to
look
at
them
and
say:
oh
in
highways,
that's
that's
perfect!
E
That's
where
we'd
expect
it
to
be,
because
we
know
that
it
will
be
for
these
particular
areas,
whereas
in
other
services
that
might
not
be
the
same.
So
it's
a
really
difficult
model
there
and
a
difficult
one
for
us
to
scrutinize,
really.
O
It's
data
that's
difficult
to
get.
I
think
what
I'd
say
from
working
on
this
quite
a
while
is
it's
always
a
moving
feast
that
often
the
needs
in
a
particular
service
require
agency
workers
to
come
in,
and
then
that
gets
resolved
and
then
something
else
comes
up
which
requires
different
types
of
agency
workers
to
come
in
or
different
overtime,
and
even
the
things
that
perhaps
because
of
their
seasonality,
are
predictable.
O
It's
still
better
to
have
the
flexibility
to
use
overtime
than
to
have
a
permanent
crew.
So
you
know
we
know
that
there's
going
to
be
days
and
evenings
when
we
need
to
need
to
do
gritty,
we
just
don't
know
when
they
are
so.
The
best
way
is
to
have
staff
on
an
on-call
road
to
and
pay
them
over
time
when
they,
when
we
need
their
expertise-
and
you
know
the
great
job
that
they
do
so
it's
it's
very
hard.
I
think
to
give
you
some
overall
permanent
position.
This
is
the
equation.
O
I
think
what
we
can
do
is
we
can
keep
coming
back
and
saying
this
is
what's
going
on
at
the
moment,
and
this
is
what
we're
doing
to
make
sure
it's
optimized
and
if
it's
you
know
it
requires
some
changes
in
terms
of
how
services
are
resourceful,
work
on
it,
and
I
think
that's
what
I've
tried
to
get
across
in
the
report,
and
I
think
it's
one
that
you
just
need
to
check
in
every
so
often
and
ask
asking:
have
we
got
the
right
resources
in
the
right
place,
doing
these
things,
and
is
it
the
most
efficient
way
of
doing
it?
O
A
Thank
you
very
much
councillor
siri.
N
Yeah,
it's
a
good
question
really
service.
H
Peter,
so
you
know
you
look
at
the
top-line
figure,
20
million
agency
overtime
work,
but
when
you
go
into
that
the
gritting
overtime,
that's
key
and
hit
highways.
You
know
some
of
that
is
is
spend
that
you
know.
If
we
employ
them
full
time
it
would
be
wasting
stuff.
So
I
think
a
little
bit
more
detail
would
be
useful
from
some
of
the
departments
about
about
where
it's
gone
into.
O
Absolutely
yeah,
I
mean
obviously
for
conciseness
this
sort
of
picked
up
a
few
of
the
issues
that
they
said
they
were
facing
at
the
moment,
but
yeah
I'm
happy
to
go
back
and
talk
to
a
number
of
the
services
and
get
more
detail
on.
You
know
which
what
what
is
overtime
used
for,
could
they
give
more
examples
and
what
they're
doing
about
it?
So
there's
no
problems
with
that
at
all.
A
Yeah
thinking,
I
think
the
point
that
counselor
carlo
made
around
well,
you
made
to
council
carl's
point
around
it
changing,
so
it
might
be
one
issue
this
year
and
another
issue.
Next
year's
worth
making
sure
you
highlight
that
okay,
I'm
gonna
bring
in
council
mckenna
next.
G
Thank
you
chair.
It's
basically
all
the
same
question
all
the
time
I'm
reluctant
to
actually
raise
a
chair,
because
in
my
former
life
I
was
a
trade
union
convener
and
I'm
I'm
actually
raising
issues
regarding
workers
manual
workers
within
it
within
the
organization.
G
I
don't
want
to
give
too
much
detail
alex,
but
if
you
would
like
to
talk
to
me
afterwards,
I'm
willing
to
have
that
conversation,
but
I
recently
come
across
an
individual
who
talked
about.
He
was
earning
400
pounds
a
week
in
overtime,
1600
pounds
a
month
well
to
my
way
of
thinking,
I'm
afraid
that's
a
job.
There
he's
doing
that
he's
doing
two
jobs,
and
I
I
didn't
think
that
we
would
allow
that
level
of
employment
over
time,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
there's
something
very
basically
wrong
when
that's
happening.
G
I
can't
give
you
details
and
I
think
I'll
leave
it
there
chair.
If
you
don't
mind,
thank.
A
You
thank
you,
I
think
we'll
take
that
as
a
comment
and
it
might
be
worth
feeding
that
into
any
data.
You
provide
us
alex
in
terms
of
over
time,
particularly
whether
there's
individuals
that
are
working
effectively,
two
jobs.
O
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
an
important
point.
There's
there's
an
absolute
minimum
standard
that
we
expect
in
terms
of
health
and
safety
and
the
working
time
regulations
to
apply
and
beyond
that.
There
are
sometimes
occasions
in
certain
services
where
patterns
of
absence
and
vacancies,
and
things
like
that
have
necessitated
certain
workers
to
you
know,
come
forward
and
do
that
because
the
other
alternative
is
to
get
agency
workers
in
which
also
has
certain
consequences.
O
But
the
work
that
we
said
we'd
do
to
look
at
some
of
the
rotors
and
make
sure
that
they're
robust
enough
should
actually
sort
of,
I
think,
tease
out
whether
or
not
we
have
got
people
that
are
working,
two
jobs
which
shouldn't
be
the
case.
Should
it
if
that's
a
continuous
arrangement,
but
from
time
to
time,
people
do
find
themselves
in
positions
where
they
do
put
a
lot
of
overtime
in
because
of
certain
situations
in
teams.
A
Thank
you,
councillor,
mckenna
and
alex
councillor
jenkins.
D
Yeah,
my
question
is
about
whether
the
council,
particularly
in
adult
social
care
and
maybe
children's
services,
has
looked
at
setting
up
an
in-house
bank.
This
may
be
ongoing,
but
any
information
will
be
useful.
Thank
you.
O
Yeah
thanks,
I
think
that
was
covered
in
the
previous
scrutiny
meeting.
Where
we
talked
about
how
this
might
operate.
I
think
setting
up
a
bank
is,
in
theory,
quite
easy
to
do
in
practice.
It's
quite
hard
that
you
have
to
keep
in
contact
with
lots
of
people.
You
have
to
provide
enough
work
to
keep
people
interested,
which
is
why
we
use
agencies,
because
they've
got
a
much
wider
pool
of
people
that
they
can
call
on
and
a
much
wider
pool
of
work
that
they
can
offer
people.
O
So
I
think
something
that
you
know.
We
perhaps
may
need
to
consider
as
some
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
around
the
winter
pressures,
but
we
looked
at,
I
think
it
was
york
city
council
we
previously
cited
where
they'd
spent
quite
a
lot
of
time,
developing
an
in-house
service,
but
it
was
very,
very
small
and
when
we
talked
to
them
it
really
did
so
well
down
to
a
number
of
recurring
pieces
of
work
where
it
really
was
perhaps
simpler.
Just
to
give
someone
a
job.
O
A
Yeah,
we,
I
think
it
is
worth
looking
at
again.
I
think
the
question
around
whether
we
can
just
employ
people
to
feel
gaps
that
we
have
permanently
is
is
one
that
we
should
also
be
taking
really
seriously,
and
I
think
that's
the
point
back
to
council
mckenna's
question
where
you're
saying
is
this
a?
Is
this
another
job?
Thank
you,
councillor
jenkins.
Eric.
Do
you
want
to
go
back?
No,
no
counselor
flynn.
R
It's
really
just
to
compliment
what
the
question's
just
been
asked.
How
close
a
watch
is
the
council
keeping
on
social
workers
in
in
in
general,
in
in
terms
of
their
the
people?
Look
after
the
most
vulnerable
people
in
the
in
the
city?
I
think
in
october
that
there
were
reports
of
high
levels
of
children's
social
workers
leaving
because
of
better
pay
elsewhere
and
because
they
they
were
required
to
work
in
a
hybrid
manner,
and
they
didn't
want
to
do
it.
R
That's
the
first
one
and
the
second
one
is
just
going
back
to
the
point
you
made
at
the
start,
andrew
about
sickness.
Have
you
any
idea
why
the
sickness
levels
have
gone
off?
Is
it
covert
related?
I
noticed
that
it's
higher
in
front
line
staff
rather
than
doing
a
little
bit
more
information
information
on
that.
If
you've
got
it,
please.
O
Okay,
certainly
I'm
I'd
probably
need
to
get
some
information
separately
around
turnover
and
retention
of
social
workers,
which
I've
been
happily
share
with
you,
but
I
haven't
got
any
sort
of
information
in
my
head
at
the
moment
on
that.
In
terms
of
the
sickness,
it
will
tend
to
be
the
same
reasons
that
that
we
we
normally
have
for
sickness,
which
will
relate
to
stress
in
particular,
and
so
working
around
well-being
and
a
focus
there,
but
also
things
like
musculoskeletal
disease
as
well,
which
affects
a
lot
of
our
frontline
staff.
O
So
we
are
looking
into
into
how
we
can
address
and
turn
that
round
more
effectively.
It
probably,
I
think
the
statistics
that
we're
quoting
here
won't
include
some
of
the
covid
related
absences
in
the
council,
but
I
think
it
does
include
long
covered,
which
is
a
small
underlying
trend,
but
nevertheless
something
that
we're
conscious
of.
A
Could
you
make
sure
you
clarify
that
and
feedback
to
the
board,
whether
it
does
or
doesn't
include
covert
adsenses?
Certainly
thank
you
and
thanks
for
raising
at
that
point,
council
finn
about
care
workers.
I
think
that's
something
we'd
all
be
interested
in
keeping
an
eye
on
to
ensure
we
have.
We
have
a
strategy
to
make
sure
we
have
enough
carers
in
our
in
our
city.
Thank
you.
So
are
there
any
other
questions?
A
No
okay!
So
thanks
for
coming
alex,
I
think
we've
given
you
quite
a
few
jobs
to
take
away
of
you,
so
we
look
forward
to
hearing
from
you
in
the
near
future.
Thank
you,
alex,
okay,
okay,
so
now
we're
moving
on
to
the
work
schedule.
I'll.
Just
let's
see
if
rob
wants
to
say
anything
before
we
move
thanks.
J
Counter
scopes,
conscious
of
time
really,
I
covered
most
of
it
in
the
introductory
section
on
the
minutes,
key
things
to
note
the
working
group
in
in
december,
which
is
now
expanded.
As
I
said
earlier,
and
then
the
work
program
appendix
one,
provides
the
latest
update
in
terms
of
the
items
that
are
coming.
Council
schools
also
referred
to
the
economic
income
and
spend
section,
which
is
another
piece
of
work,
we're
working
on.
In
the
background,
I
think
that
would
that
will
be
a
chat.
A
D
A
R
I
I
just
want
to
give
them
that
we
we
talk
quite
a
lot
about
the
quality
of
service
to
the
public,
whether
we
we
could
get
some
kind
of
a
report
from
someone
there's.
A
regular
report
goes
to
the
corporate
leadership
team
from
each
of
the
directorates,
explaining
what
their
work
pressures
actually
are
at
present
and
what
the
reasons
are
for
it.
R
That's
where
I
got
the
issue
about
the
children's
social
workers,
leaving
the
leaving
this
council
not
quite
sure
how
it
fits
into
our
remit,
but
you
know
if
we're
not
delivering
a
high
quality
of
service.
What's
the
point
of
any
of
us
being
here,
you
know.
A
Thanks
for
that
counselor
and
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
talk
to
her
about
whether
it
fits
in
our
emit
and
if
it
doesn't
where
it
would
fit,
because
everything
that
exec
board
does
should
fit
in
someone's
scrutiny
remit
in
my
opinion,
and
did
someone
else
indicate
on
this
side,
and
I
didn't
see:
no
does
anyone
else
want
to
comment?
No
okay.
So
with
that,
thank
you
very
much
evan.
For
your
time,
I
think
we've
had
a
really
thorough
debate
on
a
few
items,
all
of
them
that
we've
had
on
the
agenda.