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From YouTube: Leeds City Council Environment, Housing and Communities Scrutiny Board 25th March 2021
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A
Thank
you.
Okay,
welcome
to
the
strategy
board,
environment,
housing
and
communities
for
march
2020.
This
is
the
last
meeting
or
the
last
at
least
planned
meeting
of
the
scrutiny
board
in
the
current
council
year.
So
welcome
to
that,
and
hopefully,
if
you've
not
been
to
one
of
our
meetings
beforehand,
you
find
the
agenda
quite
stimulating
in
terms
of
the
subject
matter
that
we've
got
before
us
today.
A
A
But
there
may
be
occasions
when
you'll
get
a
signal
to
say
that
your
strength
of
signal
isn't
good
and
fine.
That's
okay!
At
that
point,
to
take
your
your
video
off,
because
we'd
far
prefer
you're
in
the
meeting,
rather
than
having
difficulties
when
it
comes
to
trying
to
get
my
attention.
If
you
can
re
use
the
raise
hand
button
or
if
you
can't
find
the
raised
hand
button
or
it's
difficult
to
to
use
again
just
wave
at
me,
and
I
will
try
and
catch.
A
What's
happening
now,
if
I
experience
technical
difficulties
in
the
first
instance,
councillor
graham
will
take
over
cheering
the
meeting
and
then,
if
councillor
graham
has
to
be
is
knocked
out.
The
meeting
as
well
then
councillor
gruen,
will
then
take
over
so
that
we've
got
a
succession
plan
in
place
if
absolutely
necessary.
A
A
A
A
A
D
Thank
you
chair.
So
under
agenda
item
number
one.
There
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents,
a
gender
item.
Two
there
are
no
exempt
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
and
public
agenda
item
3.
We
don't
have
any
late
items
of
business
today.
Agenda
item
4!
Please
can
ask
members
to
declare
any
disposable
pecuniary
interests,
I'll
take
silence
as
none
agenda
item.
A
E
A
Yeah,
thank
you
and
the
other
comment
that
has
been
made
is
that
the
information
appeared
to
be
based
on
the
old
word
structure,
and
so,
if
we
could
get
another
set
of
information
based
on
the
new
word
structures
as
well,
but
becky
atherton,
who
supports
this
board,
has
got
a
copy
of
all
of
these
comments
and
will
be
taking
that
forward.
So
in
that
case,
can
we
approve
the
minutes?
A
A
D
H
M
A
N
A
E
J
So,
just
as
a
a
bit
of
context,
we
we
had
a
focus
on
this
about
it
a
year
ago
and
then
that
meeting
we
went
through
quite
a
bit
of
detail
around
the
overview
of
the
housing
stock
and
the
overall
approach
that
we're
taking
to
affordable
warmth
in
in
leeds
and
then
the
historic
approach
to
an
energy
efficiency
improvement.
So
I'm
not
intending
to
go
over
that
same
old
ground
instead,
this
time
around.
The
next
slide.
J
Please
becky
this
time
around
we're
just
going
to
pick
up
very
briefly
on
the
fuel
poverty
statistics
and
then
I'll
focus
a
little
bit
on
the
policy
context.
So
some
of
the
positive
and
negative
changes
over
the
last
year
or
so
and
just
highlight
some
of
the
impacts
on
our
work
and
then
nahim
will
pick
up
on
council
housing
and
mark
will
focus
on
the
private
rented
sector.
J
J
The
trend
over
the
last
four
years
has
been
positive,
where
we've
been
seeing
we've
seen,
the
rates
in
leads
come
down
and
they're
now,
almost
exactly
the
same
as
the
national
average.
We
know
that
over
the
last
year
there
will
be
significant
impacts
as
a
result
of
covered
with
changes
to
income
levels
and
a
number
of
people
spending
a
huge
amount
more
time
at
home.
J
It's
been
it's
been
due
for
about
18
months
or
so
I
think
the
consultation
closed
about
18
months
ago.
It's
a
broadly
positive
strategy
in
that
and
they've
taken
on
board.
Quite
a
lot
of
the
learning
points
from
the
previous
work
and
kept
in
place
a
lot
of
the
the
good
good
initiatives
that
are
in
the
past
strategy.
J
So
as
one
or
the
other
change
people
would
move
in
or
out
of
the
definition
of
fuel
poverty
without
their
actual
circumstances,
changing
which
was
clearly
not
a
sensible
way
to
monitor.
You
know
the
depth
of
fuel
poverty
in
particular
areas,
so
this
one
has
changed
that
definition.
So
it's
based
around
60
income
against
the
median
income,
it's
being
seen
as
a
lower
income
and
then
focusing
on
the
worst
property.
J
But
it's
also
added
in
two
new
principles:
one
around
vulnerability,
so
looking
at
people's
own
particular
circumstances
or
whether
they're
particularly
old
or
vulnerable,
due
to
ill
health
or
other
factors,
and
then
a
sustainability
principle
where
this
is
now
tied
very
closely
to
the
drive
net:
zero
net
zero
carbon.
So
all
these
things
help
to
make
the
fuel
property
strategy
a
more
rounded
document,
and
then
there
is
a
promise
of
significant
investment
within
the
strategy
as
well.
J
J
So
back
in
2020.
At
the
last
scrutiny
board,
we
estimated
a
range
of
about
1.1
to
2.4
billion.
To
achieve
this,
we've
been
working
with
a
number
of
other
bodies
since
then
to
try
to
refine
the
figures,
and
the
range
is
pretty
broad
arab
in
2020
estimated
that
the
cost
would
be
between
9
and
15
billion.
J
To
achieve
that
same
standard,
the
leeds
climate
commission,
led
by
andy
goldson,
has
come
up
with
a
much
more
refined
estimate
at
5.4
billion
and
arab
have
revisited
their
work
using
much
better,
better
evidence
and
estimated
that
for
housing
leads
homes
only
it
was
862
million
for
about
54
000
properties,
so
that
there
is
still
quite
a
wide
range.
But
we
think
that
it's
fair
to
say
it's
likely
to
be
over
five
billion.
J
There
are
some
quite
significant
new
funding
rounds
available
and
so
we've
seen
the
announcement
of
the
green
home
grants
around
2
billion
pounds
was
announced
in
the
summer,
primarily
to
help
deal
with
with
povid
and
get
people
back
into.
Work
was
the
aim
of
that
fund
and
then
in
the
election
manifesto
there
was
a
a
promise
of
3.8
billion
for
the
social
housing
decarbonisation
fund
and
62
million
of
that
has
been
awarded.
J
An
announcement
has
been
made
that
they'll
be
60
million
made
available
this
year,
and
then
the
remainder
will
be
delivered
over
10
10
years
over
the
next
10
years
and
bays
are
currently
consulting
very
very
quietly
in
an
initial
stage
for
a
follow-up
to
the
the
green
green
home
grants.
I
mean,
I
said
that
there
are
some
caveats
to
this
I
mean.
J
I
think,
though,
everyone
will
be
very
aware
of
the
criticism
in
the
press
around
the
green
home
grant
vouchers,
where
only
ten
percent
of
the
six
hundred
thousand
properties
that
were
targeted
have
actually
been
been
helped
and
there's
been
some
impacts
on
the
industry,
some
very
negative
impacts
on
the
insulation
industry
and
then
social
housing
decarbonization
fund.
The
initial
manifesto
commitment
was
to
spend
that
over
this
current
parliament-
and
now
that's
been
extended
for
a
full
10
years.
J
So
next
slide
please
so
then
the
other
big
change
that
has
come
about
is
something
called
past
2035
and
it's
a
it's
a
technical
standard
that
has
built
on
ones
that
have
come
come
before.
It's
something
that
the
insulation
industry,
the
energy
efficiency
industry,
is
required
to
meet.
This
one
is
a
very
significant
departure
from
the
previous
sets
of
pas
standards,
and
it
was
basically
developed
with
very
honorable
intentions.
J
The
focus
is
very
much
on
getting
the
detailing
right,
so
you
build
tight
ventilate
right,
make
sure
there
aren't
cold
bridges
which
cause
potential
potential
damp
and
mould
issues,
and
it's
all
about
trying
to
focus
on
getting
the
the
building
fabric
right
before
you.
Then
retrofit
active
active
renewables.
J
J
There
there's
some
criticism,
we're
kind
of
putting
put
in
place
in
terms
of
the
risk
assessment
as
soon
as
a
property
has
more
than
one
measure,
and
so
so
it's
having
loft
and
cavity
wall
insulation.
It
immediately
becomes
high
risk,
whereas
we
don't
think
that's
necessarily
the
case.
Once
you
get
down
a
high
risk
route,
then
it's
there's
a
lot
of
intervention.
That's
required
from
professionals
and
a
lot
of
hassle
factors
for
the
householders
and
a
lot
of
upfront
costs
just
go
to
the
next
slide
as
well.
J
Please
so
we're
just
currently
working
with
government
to
try
to
working
working
locally
with
contractors
to
understand
the
real
world
implications
for
ourselves
and
then
pass
that
information
onto
governments.
But,
in
summary,
our
view
on
past
2035
is
that
it
is
complex
and
it's
time
consuming
particularly
up
front
and
we're
aware
that
there
aren't
enough
trained
professionals
and
particularly
retrofit
coordinators,
who
are
seen
as
the
linchpin
for
any
retrofit
project.
J
It's
quite
a
quite
a
time,
consuming
qualification
to
get
where
a
portfolio
of
essays
need
to
be
submitted
once
you've
been
on
the
training
course,
there
are
high
transaction
fees.
We
look
at
a
minimum
of
about
500
pounds
of
property
to
over
a
thousand
pounds
for
some
of
the
high
risk
properties,
which
is
any
victorian
terrace.
It's
much
more
costly
and
we're
seeing
the
costs
for
cavity
and
lot
insulation
being
two
to
three
times
higher
than
pre-pads
and
for
external
wool
insulation.
J
Typically,
it's
adding
between
three
to
six
or
more
thousand
pounds
onto
a
property
just
to
deal
with
the
the
detailing.
That's
that's
required,
and
some
of
the
some
of
the
interventions
that
are
required
through
this
are
very
disruptive
and
off-putting
for
customers,
and
we
are
struggling
at
the
moment
to
deliver
some
of
the
grants
that
have
been
made
available
to
us
because
of
the
changes
to
pass.
J
Next
slide,
please
and
then
just
to
finish
off.
We've
got
some
recommendations
around
past
20,
35
and
how
it
could
be
improved.
We
think
the
principles
are
broadly
right
and
it
is
absolutely
right
to
get
the
detailing
right
and
to
drive
out
low
quality
finishes
to
make
sure
they
exacerbate
problems.
But
our
concern
is
that
the
standard
as
it's
currently
written
is
very
inflexible.
It
doesn't
allow
us
to
use
any
kind
of
empirical
evidence
about
the
approach
we've
been
taking
to
demonstrate
that
it
doesn't
cause
issues.
L
L
At
the
moment,
the
value
of
those
projects
is
31
million,
and
I'm
hoping
that
demonstrates
the
very
real
commitment
that
we
we
have
on
this
agenda
and
the
inward
investment
secured
primarily
through
the
work
in
george's
team
is,
is
also
specified
there
at
just
over
21
million.
And
what
we
really
want
to
do
is
try
and
harness
any
future
funding
opportunities,
because
any
money
that
we
can
bring
in
will
reduce
the
pressure
on
the
hra
program,
which
is
also
responsible
for
all
the
key
priorities.
L
L
So
the
the
second
slide
covers
one
of
the
main
areas
that
we've
been
focusing
on
now,
like
it's
not
to
say
that
this
is
the
only
area
of
decarbonization.
We
have
lots
of
schemes
underway
that
are
delivering
external
wall
insulation,
for
example,
and
and
a
number
of
other
measures,
but
I
thought
it
might
be
of
interest
if
I
shared
what
we're
doing
specifically
around
the
replacement
of
electric
storage
heating
within
high-rise
blocks.
L
This
is
a
source
of
of
quite
high
levels
of
customer
dissatisfaction,
as
is
illustrated
by
our
star
survey,
results,
it's
quite
an
outdated
type
of
heating,
it's
expensive
to
run
poor
levels
of
control,
and
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
it's
very
unpopular,
and
so
we
we
wanted
to
really
have
a
concentrated
effort
in
in
this
area.
We
have
already
successfully
installed
renewable
heating
to
35
high-rise
buildings
and
that
of
the
64
that
are
remaining.
We.
L
We
now
have
very
firm
plans
in
place
for
52
and
and
that's
activity
that
will
be
delivered
over
the
next
five
to
six
year
period
and
we
we
will
be
putting
a
plan
in
place
for
the
remaining
12
as
well
and
the
the
benefits
are
outlined.
Then,
if
I
can
just
have
a
couple
of
minutes,
I'd
like
to
just
read
a
couple.
L
Since
the
onset
of
their
tenancy
in
in
1995.,
we
installed
renewable
energy
in
october
2020
and
the
space
that's
been
taken
up
physically
within
the
within
the
actual
flat
is
less
than
that
taken
up
by
a
traditional
hot
water
cylinder.
The
contractor
synergists
have
years
on
team
and
they
met
with
the
tenants.
They
provided
instructions
and
demonstrations
on
how
to
operate
the
new
system,
because
that's
key
to
success.
L
They
also
offered
advice
on
tariff
changes
to
maximize
savings.
I'm
just
going
to
read
a
short
testimonial
from
from
that
from
that
couple,
and
when
we
had
storage
heaters,
only
the
living
room
really
got
warm,
but
now
all
the
flat
gets
warm.
It's
really
nice
to
have
the
option
to
just
turn
it
on
when
you
want
it
like
on
an
evening
when
we
start
watching
tv,
the
storage
heat
heaters
didn't
give
out
much
heat
on
an
evening,
so
it's
great
to
have
that
it's
a
bit
colder
today.
L
So
I
might
turn
it
on
for
a
bit
later
on.
It's
a
lot
easier
to
use
the
storage
heaters
and
it's
a
lot
easier
to
use.
The
storage
heaters
were
awkward
and
I'm
really
happy
with
the
work.
The
new
systems
have
definitely
made
a
marked
and
welcome
difference
to
the
heating
in
my
flat
just
in
time
for
the
winter
months,
and
the
second
care
study
is
from
a
family
living
in
in
the
westerlies.
L
This
household
comprises
of
two
adults
in
their
mid-30s
with
a
young
child
age.
Six
they
moved
into
the
property
in
2016
and
tenants,
working,
full-time
and
they're.
Currently,
working
from
home
and
their
change
to
renewable
energy
happened
in
february
of
the
students
are
very
recent
and
their
feedback
was
the
electric
storage
heaters
were
a
pain,
uncontrollable
hard
to
set
to
the
desired
temperature
and
too
hot
overnight,
causing
disturbed
sleep.
The
new
system
is
a
dream
really
happy
with
it.
I
was
worried.
L
It
was
worth
every
minute
of
the
disruption
I
would
have
happily
paid
for
the
system
if
I
had
to
there
wasn't
minor
disruption
for
a
couple
of
days
during
the
works,
but
the
guys
were
really
helpful
and
I
was
amazed
at
the
speed
they
worked.
They
would
efficient,
clean
and
made
as
little
mess
as
possible.
L
I
just
thought
it
might
be
useful
for
you
to
hear
that
aim
of
the
direct
feedback
from
tenants
becky
next
slide,
please.
Thank
you.
This
next
slide
just
captures
some
of
the
carbon
savings
that
have
been
generated
from
not
all
of
the
projects
that
we're
delivering,
but
just
four
key
ones
that
I've
picked
out.
L
The
toefl
carbon
savings
there
at
just
under
15
000
tons
per
annum.
I
am
informed
by
the
specialist
contractor
that
that
is
equal
to
having
three
commercial
wind
turbines
or
fitting
over
half
a
million
led
light
bulbs
or
planting
a
quarter
of
a
million
new
trees
and
the
benefits
that
generates
over
a
ten
year
period
and
then,
just
on
my
last
slide,
I'm
just
going
to
cover
a
little
bit
of
information
that
we've
gathered
using
a
new
model
as
as
mentioned
earlier,
developed
in
collaboration
with
the
university
of
leeds.
L
L
They
get
to
be
tested,
the
the
the
value
generated
from
running
that
that
query
is
that
it
would
cost
a
1.1
billion
to
upgrade
to
a
b
and,
interestingly,
only
58
of
our
stock
currently
would
really
lend
itself
to
raising
to
that
standard,
and
that's
because
of
the
difficulties
it
would
involved
in
bringing
the
other
42
up
to
standard.
So
just
to
explain
what
I
mean
there
in
the
high-rise
blocks,
we've
got
to
a
level
c.
L
A
M
You
counselor
yeah
private
sector.
I
think
this
agenda
is
one
of
the
biggest
challenges
that's
actually
facing
it.
I
think
gavin
dick
last
time
when
we
were
discussing
private
rented
sector
in
general,
raised
the
challenges
that
not
just
the
private
landlords
but
also
earner
occupiers
face
it
isn't
an
easy
thing
for
people
to
do.
It
is
a
big
challenge.
M
M
Come
thank.
You
put
it
in
perspective.
The
main
tenure
in
the
city
is
private.
It's
not
social.
It's
not
something
we
have.
Control
of
the
biggest
tenure
is
owner
occupation.
That's
around
58,
59,
private,
rented
sectors,
around
21
22
in
terms
of
all
private
homes,
25
percent
of
them
you'll
find
in
the
pre-1919
stock
in
terms
of
the
private
rented
sector.
Over
50
percent
of
it
is
found
in
the
pre-1919
stock,
so
the
hardest
to
treat
properties
are
probably
in
the
lowest
sector
in
terms
of
energy
efficiency
being
the
private
rented
sector.
M
What
compounds
this
further
is,
whilst
50
of
the
private
rented
stock
is,
is
in
that
most
of
it
is
actually
in
the
inner
cities.
It's
in
the
general
in
the
lower
value
rental
markets,
the
lower
value
property
markets.
It's
now
found
to
be
the
prominent
tenure
in
the
majority
of
these
areas,
so
places
like
her
hills,
pierston
holbeck,
the
main
or
the
most
dominant
tenure
is
actually
the
private
rented
sector.
M
M
I
think
another
issue
that
we
have
is
that
energy
efficiency
or
energy
usage
is
not
seen
as
a
major
selling
point
or
a
major
market
advantage.
People
don't
generally
buy
houses
because
their
energy
efficiency
levels
are
higher.
They
buy
them
big
for
the
reasons
price
location,
access
to
other
services
such
as
schools.
M
Similarly,
when
people
rent
properties,
whilst
energy
efficiency
may
be
something
they
do
consider
in
some
areas,
it's
not
something
that
in
general
is
some
a
consideration.
We
have
seen
niche
markets
like
greenhouse
in
beeston
and
the
development
on
along
east
street,
but
in
general
that
it's
not
something
that
is
taken
to
is
a
major
reason
for
people
when
they
buy
it
or
rent
properties.
M
M
What
people
need
to
do?
There's
pieces
of
work
being
done
to
look
at
the
different
types
of
properties
looking
at
producing
help
and
guidance
and
advice
as
to
how
to
upgrade
different
archives,
how
to
make
how
to
invest
when
you're
doing
your
business
planning?
What
is
it
you
need
to
do
to
help
people
make
sure
that
when
they
do
invest
in
their
homes,
they
do
it
in
a
sensible
way.
That's
not
going
to
come
back
and
having
to
redo
it.
M
So,
for
example,
if
you're
going
to
plaster
a
wall
internally
put
insulation
on
the
wall,
don't
just
plaster
it
work.
We
can
do
to
help
with
the
smart
meter,
roll
out
advice
and
help.
Similarly,
with
prepaid
meters,
one
of
the
issues,
especially
in
the
inner
city,
is
the
predominance
of
pre-paid
meters
and
it's
to
work
with
landlords
and
tenants,
and
hopefully
the
energy
companies
to
try
and
reduce
their
usage.
M
We
work
with
people
like
the
green
doctor,
where
we
work
in
partnership
with
others
and
we're
going
into
houses
and
crossing
the
threshold
to
help
with
an
understanding
of
how
better
to
use
their
the
energy
input
into
the
properties
finance
available.
George
has
mentioned
the
sums
that
are
that
are
out
there.
It's
not
going
to
be
a
single
means
of
finance.
That's
going
to
crack
this.
M
There
are
loans.
We
have
got
grants
we've
very,
very
fortunate.
We've
got
another
3.7
million
scheme
in
holbeck.
We
got
money
from
get
building
fund
to
allow
us
to
do
that.
Options
available
include
tax
incentive.
The
the
tax
system
already
encourages
energy
efficiency
in
by
using
the
v80
system,
if
you're
putting
energy
efficiency
in
it's
five
percent,
whereas
normally
it's
20,
we've
of
course
got
enforcement.
M
We
have
the
housing
act
which
under
part
one
there's
issues
around
excess
cold,
and
so
we
can
actually
enforce
standards.
Obviously,
there
is
a
limit
to
what
we
can
do
in
terms
of
ensuring
that
that
is
a
decarbonized
heating
source.
At
the
moment,
most
landlords
and
probably
owners
will
actually
install
gas
because
it's
the
cheapest
option
we
can
enforce
minimum
energy
stat
efficiency
standards.
That's
the
pcc,
where
people
where
landlords
are
failing
to
to
to
come
up
to
that
standard.
M
I
think
what
is
what
is
something
that
we
can
do
is
this
especially
in
the
private
rented
sector,
there's
a
lack
of
awareness
of
what's
coming,
so
we
can
campaign
to
support
the
change
we
can
send
out
email
alerts.
We
have
twitter,
we
can
raise
awareness
that
way,
but
ultimately
I
think
it
needs
a
behavior
change.
M
As
I
said
earlier,
one
of
the
things
that
is
not
a
priority
when
buying
and
selling
a
house
is
the
current.
Is
energy
efficiency?
It's
something
perhaps
the
financial
institutions
could
look
at
in
terms
of
when
you
buy
a
house
if
something's
missing,
they
can
withhold
the
part
of
the
mortgage
until
that's
done.
A
G
G
That's
the
work,
that's
being
done
by
neil
and
paulie's
team,
george
and
others
to
secure
funding
for
leads
to
make
these
investments,
which
is
great.
I
think
the
question
I've
got
really,
though,
is
the
way
that
that
funding
is
delivered
doesn't
enable
us
to
make
the
sort
of
long-term
investment
that
we
want
to
make
in
the
housing
stock
to
deliver
the
employment
and
apprenticeship
opportunities
that
we
need
to
see
from
the
city.
G
J
First,
stand:
you're,
absolutely
right:
councilman
heron,
it's
it's
immensely
frustrating
at
the
moment,
and
I
was
just
thinking
about
it.
Thinking
about
it
last
night,
you
know
what
what
are
the
key
asks
that
we
that
we
want
and
what
do
we
actually
want
to
achieve
and
what
we
really
want
to
achieve
is
how,
having
the
time
to
plan
something
to
engage
with
the
community
to
work
with
our
supply
chain.
So
we've
got
something
which
is
delivered
really
effectively
with
the
community
and
giving
contractors
enough
time
to
come
and
do
the
work.
J
M
M
The
other
thing
that
we
found
when
working
with
the
private
sector,
especially,
is
to
have
a
product
that
works,
but
is
simple.
A
lot
of
things
that
are
put
on
or
proposed
to
be
put
on.
Buildings
are
quite
complex
when
you
talk
to
owners
when
you
talk
to
landlords,
what
they
want
is
something
that's
that
works,
that's
simple,
but
when
it
comes
to
things
like
maintenance
and
the
long-term
costs,
so
it's
gonna
that
they're
going
to
inherit.
M
They
want
something,
that's
simple,
that
you
don't
need
a
technical
company
or
some
technical
skill
to
do.
They
want
simple
things
that
the
normal
builders
can
actually
do,
and
what
the
lessons
we've
learned
from
from
the
work
we've
done
in
holdback
is:
if
you
provide
people
with
the
right
product
and
you
provide
them
with
something
that
will
work
for
them
in
their
homes.
M
I
I
Actually,
a
huge
amount
of
money
was
made
available
in
the
private
sector
and
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
household
assistant
vouchers,
there's
a
danger
of
something
like
95
of
that
not
being
spent
so
because
of
the
the
the
scale
of
the
the
because
of
the
time
which
was
which
was
put
on
it
and,
I
think
really.
Maybe
it
is
a
something
for
the
screening
board
to
kind
of
have
a
look
at
in
terms
of
the
lobby.
I
Is
you
need
that
that
same
amount
of
money
spread
over
a
longer
period
of
time,
which
actually
would
have
given
firms
confidence
that
they
could
actually
build
up
a
supply
chain
that
they
could
actually
take
staff
on?
Because
they
knew
that
they'd
be
needed
for
for
more
than
six
months
that
that
actually,
that
would
feed
into
fe
so
that
you
could
actually
have
apprentices
which
ran
over
the
period
of
the
time.
I
That
would
have
been
a
much
more
constructive
way
of
not
only
going
about
the
the
work
on
climate
change,
but
actually
about
economic
recovery
in
in
terms
of
a
response
to
the
downturn
through
covid.
So
I
I
think
that
is
that
that
is
a
you
know,
really
important
point
at
this
at
this
moment
in
time,
and
you
know,
I
think
what
all
firms
in
a
way
are
crying
out
for
is
being
able
to
plan
over
that
period.
I
I
Incredibly
short
notice
and
the
sort
of
dedication
and
the
skill
of
the
staff
involved
is
immense
and
we've
been
really
and
we're
really
fortunate
in
leeds
to
have
those
teams
who
can
draw
that
money
in
and
and
we're
talking
about,
tens
of
millions
pounds
which
have
been
drawn
into
the
council
and
for
the
city
to
benefit
from,
and
I
and
I
think
there
is
I'm
being
because
we're
gonna
can
always
kind
of
get
a
bit
negative
about
how
this.
What
scale
of
the
challenge
is.
I
But
I
think
some
of
the
things
which
nahim
laid
out
is
showing
that
actually,
there
is
a
real
transformation
going
on.
At
the
moment
I
mean
that
125
million
pounds
worth
of
of
investment
is
enormous.
It
is
going
to
really
transform
our
multi-storey
stock,
which
is
some
of
which
you
know
has
the
worst
issues
around
around
energy
and
it's
representing
a
real
shift.
I
Actually
so
we're
going
from
a
few
percent
three
four
percent
of
maybe
money
being
spent
on
that
a
number
of
years
ago,
when
we
were
putting
all
our
money
into
rightly
into
decency
and
addressing
things
like
30
year,
old
bathrooms
and
so
forth.
Now
it's
almost
about
25
of
our
spending
has
begun
being
actually
directed
in
in
in
this
way
within
the
hra.
I
G
A
Yeah
yeah,
you
know
I
it's
difficult
to
work
this
because
we
don't
know
who's
going
to
be
doing
what
in
the
new
year.
But
if
I
am
around
at
that
time,
I
think
what
we
need
to
do
is
look
to
get
the
exact
member
for
climate
change,
the
exec
member
for
housing
and
myself,
along
with
officers
to
try
and
get
in
touch
with
civil
servants
and
government
ministers.
To
make
this
clear,
because
I
get
a
lot
of
this
information
passed
to
me
in
terms
of
individual
briefings.
A
But
it's
how
we
get
it
out
into
the
public
domain
so
that
the
civil
servants
can
understand
what
it
is
they
are
actually
doing
and
when
they
are
advising
ministers
the
impact
that
they
are
having
in
terms
of
what
we
can
do.
So
you.
The
points
you
may
constantly
have
are
correct
and
I
do
think
we've
got
to
actively
lobby
across
party
to
be
quite
frank,
so
that
we
can
get
the
point
across
and
so
far
council
cooper.
And
I
have
done
that
on
one
or
two
occasions
already.
So
you
know
there
is.
A
B
A
L
I
I'm
happy
to
try
and
pick
it
up.
I
don't
have
the
specifics
on
exactly
which
properties
we're
connecting,
but
I
can
certainly.
I
can
certainly
look
into
that
and
come
back
to
you
councillor
khan.
We
are
taking
every
opportunity
to
connect
absolutely
as
much
as
we
can
to
to
the
to
you
know
to
the
leeds
pipe
scheme
and
in
terms
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
now
on
the
remaining
clusters
and
the
ground
source
heat
pumps.
L
A
D
Thank
you
chair.
Oh
excuse
me.
Thank
you,
chair
yeah.
I
think
I
think
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
put
my
thanks
on
record,
especially
to
mark
who's,
been
very
responsive
with
a
lot
of
questions.
I've
had
regarding
the
private
rented
sector
sort
of
well
outside
of
this
meeting,
but
so
so
so
mark
on
your
on
your
presentation,
you,
you
said
something
about
withholding
a
mortgage.
Did
you
mean
withholding
rent
on
that.
N
M
M
There
are
options
for
tenants
allowed
to
do
that
as
part
of
current
legislation,
fitness
for
human
habitation,
where
we
serve
notice
and
works
out
done,
they
can
get
rent
repayment
orders,
but
I
suppose
my
my
point
was
is
if
we
are
going
to
see
this
change,
that
we
need
to
get
to
the
level
that
we
need
to
do.
Enforcement
alone
is
it's
more
than
just
things
that
are
within
our
control.
There
are
other
other
partners
who
could
possibly
help
in
in
terms
of
forcing
the
agenda.
If
you
like.
C
C
Thanks
chair,
and
can
I
sort
express
my
thanks
for
the
excellent
presentation
and
and
the
amount
of
work
that's
gone
into
that
and
the
amount
of
work
that
the
team
does
all
year
round
very
specific
question?
Really
it
and
it's
about
storage
heaters,
which
probably
in
terms
of
complaints
and
comments
I
get
from
from
tenants,
is
fairly
high
on
the
list
and
as
the
letter
that
that
nahim
read
out
sort
of
very
succinctly
put
it.
C
C
I
know
there
is
a
program
to
replace
them
eventually,
but
when
they
break
down
or
when
there's
a
problem
with
them,
is
that
the
opportunity
to
put
something
different
in
because
what
I'm
seeing
is
we
are
still
replacing
storage
heaters
like
for
like
when
when
they
need
replacing.
So
I
just
wonder
if
you
could
have
some
comments
on
that.
Please
check.
A
L
Thank
you.
The
first
brown
sauce
heat
pump
that
went
in
was
as
a
consequence
of
the
numbers
of
repairs
that
we
were
undertaking
within
a
particular
high-rise
block
and
that
triggered
the
need
for
us
to
look
at
the
entire
system.
It's
just
getting
a
balance.
Really.
We
are
trying
to
accelerate
as
much
of
as
much
activity
as
we
can.
It's
ordinarily,
an
80
million
pound
program.
We
deliver
annually
this
coming
financial
year,
21
22.
C
C
But
I
think
my
question
really
is:
if,
if
we
have
a
breakdown
and
a
repair
done
to
knight
to
a
storage
heater
out
of
that
out
of
that
scheme,
and
it's
a
one-off,
we'll
be
spending
money
on
repair
or
even
replacement,
could
we
be
looking
at
a
short-term
alternative
to
storage
heaters
on
a
case-by-case
basis
within
individual
flats?
Until
all
the
flats
are,
you
know,
know
the
full
scheme
comes
in
because
you'd
be
having
to
spend
money
on
the
new
storage
cheaters
or
on
the
repair.
C
L
Nahim,
yes,
I
fully
appreciate
the
question
that's
been
asked
and
I
think
we
can
we
probably
already
do,
but
I
can
make
absolutely
certain
that
we
are
looking
on
a
case-by-case
basis
as
to
whether
you
know,
we've
got
the
best
solution
for
the
individual
at
that
point
in
time,
but
ultimately,
replacing
an
entire
system
is
a
very
different
activity
to
looking
at
an
individual
flat.
What
might
be
happening
for
one
particular
tenant,
but
we
can.
A
F
You
for
that
chair
can
I
also
thank
all
the
officers
tickles
award
counselor
for
holbeck.
I
can't
tell
you
the
difference
that
that
improvement
has
made
back-to-back
houses
that
should
never
have
been
built
in
the
first
place
and
a
hundred
years
later,
they've
still
got
one
brick
to
keep
between
them
and
the
outside
world
to
keep
them
warm.
It's
actually
improved
the
lives
of
those
people
tremendously
on
a
different
issue.
F
Recently,
in
beeston
a
group
all
something
has
popped
up
called
leeds
climate
emergency
community
action
project,
which
has
been
funded
by
national
lottery
community
fund,
as
I've
got
a
lot
of
experts
in
front
of
me.
This
was
done
without
any
consultation
with
ward
members
or
the
community.
I
wondered
if
people
knew
about
this
group.
K
Yes,
it's
basically
a
group
that
was
primarily
sort
of
third
sector
organizations,
so
it's
basically,
it
was
sort
of
aimed
at
climate
change,
but
it
was.
It
was
aimed
at
third
sector
organizations
to
improve
sort
of
communities,
sort
of
resilience
to
climate
change.
Essentially,
so,
whilst
as
a
council,
we
gave
them
some
support
in
putting
together
a
bid,
it
was
we
very
much
left
them
in
the
driving
seat
in
actually
getting
the
funds.
G
He
was
really
it
was
on
that
issue.
It
was
funding
bid
through
the
big
lottery
spot
through
voluntary
action
leads
and
our
future
leads
they're,
all
kind
of
obsolete
third
sector
organizations.
A
number
of
other
third
sector
organizations
applied
together
for
that
funding
and
they
did
get
a
significant
money
to
bring
into
the
city
to
work
on
community
projects,
and
I
think
they've
got
three
sites
initially
we're
looking
at
six
local
areas
to
work
in
with
different
geographical
demographic
makeup,
they
were
encouraged
by
us
to
work
with
local
war
members.
F
Nothing
at
all
lisa,
and
I
don't
even
know
of
any
community
groups
that
were
involved.
It
came
completely
out
of
the
blue
now
that
I'm
complaining
but
interfering
just
to
know
for
future
that
you
know
you
can't
say
that
you're
ground
you
you're
working
from
the
ground
upwards,
but
when
nobody
on
the
ground
knows
anything
about
it.
So
that
was
my
comment
for
that
one.
So
thank
you
for
that.
A
G
A
F
And
the
other
thing
is,
and
quite
a
selfish
interest.
One
is
that
I
live
in
a
in
a
city,
ward,
in
a
four
bedroom,
single
brick
pre-1900
house
and
in
our
neighborhood
we're
getting
quite
a
lot
of
people
knocking
on
our
doors
and
putting
leaflets
through
our
doors,
saying
we
can
help
you
improve
the
the
quality
of
your
house
and
people
are
coming
to
me
saying:
is
this
a
genuine
thing?
Angela?
F
Is
this
council
approved
and
nobody
seems
to
know
and
they're
asking
for
quite
large
amounts
of
money
because,
as
I
say,
I
can't
ca
I've
covered
through
all
installation,
because
I
am
also
a
single
brick.
I've
got
four
bedrooms
and
gas
central
heating,
which
must
be
over
what
25
years
old
and
other
people
are
coming
saying.
You
can
have
your
house
sealed
from
the
outside
at
a
cost
of
two
thousand
pound
and
you
won't
need
to
put
your
heating
on
anymore
and,
and
you
can
do
and
people
think.
Oh
yeah,
that's
a
wonderful
idea!
F
So
we
need
some
sort
of
service
that
people
can
say.
Is
this
genuine
because
people
do
want
to
improve
the
properties?
You
know
people
are
interested
in
climate
change
and
they're
willing
to
start
putting
the
money
up
now,
because
they
don't
want
to
wait
till
they
get
to
my
age
when
they've
got
no
more
income
coming
in
other
than
the
state
pension,
and
we
are
the
ones
that
are
living
in
those
little
properties.
So
it's.
Where
do
we
go
for
that
sort
of
information
that
we
can
say
that
whoever's
dealing
with
it
is
kosher.
K
Yes,
well
certainly
with
private
sector
properties.
I
know
we
give
guidance
on
what
are
actually
our
schemes
but,
as
I
say,
obviously,
with
with
a
sort
of
the
private
sector
sort
of
industry,
there
are
sort
of
private
sector
companies
which
are
potentially
accessing
some
element
of
eco
funding
from
the
energy
companies
that
are
doing
their
sort
of
sort
of
basically
operating
on
an
individual
private
basis.
K
K
K
A
So,
presumably
then,
in
that
case,
that's
a
gap
that
maybe
a
future
scrutiny
board
should
look
into
it
because
we
don't
want
residents
spending
whatever
small
amount
of
money
they've
got
on
something
where
it
might
not
be
as
straightforward
as
is
being
presented
to
them.
So
again,
michael
have
taken
a
note
of
that.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Councillor,
smith,.
E
Thank
you
chair.
First
of
all,
I'd
like
to
congratulate
the
officers
on
excellent
reports
really
user-friendly
other
than
one
block
of
figures
that
you
have
been
clarified
now
in
the
in
the
presentation.
So
thank
you
for
that.
It's
great
to
see.
There's
lots
of
work
already
done
and
plenty
more.
That's
ongoing.
E
E
I
think
that
the
successor
board
should
lobby
government
in
some
format,
because
I
do
think.
Having
heard
what
we've
heard
today,
you
know
we
we
could
possibly
make
them
aware
of
the
issues
that
are
being
faced,
which
they
probably
aren't
aware
of.
They
may
not
understand
fully,
so
I
think
we
should
bring
that
to
their
attention.
E
I
agree
with
councillor
mull
heron
that
this
would
help
with
job
job
creation
and
apprenticeships,
I'm
very
hot.
On
apprenticeships,
I
think
you
know
we
should
grow
our
own
talent.
I
think
things
like
this
are
here
for
ever,
and
I
think
that
we
we
should
future
proof
the
city
as
much
as
we
can
possibly
do
so.
I
would
welcome
any
help
from
anybody
to
to
do
that.
E
H
Yes,
thanks.
Council
anderson
really
really
interesting
discussion.
One
one
element:
I've
just
got
a
question
around
and
it
relates
to
fuel
poverty.
Clearly,
the
cost
of
fuel
is
one
of
the
big
big
issues
and
I
welcome
the
work.
That's
been
done
around
tariffs,
but
I
think
we
know
that
there's
also
pre-paid
meters
and
often
those
prepaid
meters
are
much
less
cost
effective
than
than
those
of
us
who
have
it
via
direct
debit
charges.
H
K
So
that
is
something
we
will
point
to.
If
you've
got
someone
who's
on
a
low
income
and
struggling
and
needs
a
bit
of
assistance,
so
that
we
would
definitely
point
people
towards
that,
but
more
generally,
yes,
certainly
the
new
generation
of
smart
meters
should
make
it
easy
for
people
to
sort
of
switch
between
sort
of
prepayment
tariffs
and
sort
of
credit
tariffs,
for
example,.
D
D
A
A
E
Thanks
chair
sorry,
I
was
assuming
you
normally
bring
me
in
at
the
end
of
the
item
to
see
if
I've
got
anything
to
to
add
really
to
what's
being
said.
But,
but
I
just
I
really
do
want
to
show
my
thanks
for
the
officers
that
are
here
today
and
have
done
a
wonderful
presentation,
but
also
to
the
teams
that
are
behind
those
offices
and
all
the
great
work
that's
going
on
outside
in
all
of
the
worlds
in
the
city
around
this
agenda.
E
E
How
do
we
bring
those
really
up
to
the
21st
century
and
and
also
not
just
for
the
the
builders
themselves,
but
actually
for
the
people
who
live
in
them?
Because
that's
what
it's
really
all
about?
Isn't
it
that's?
What
we're
trying
to
achieve
and
we,
as
I've
said
we're
trying
to
do
that
with
our
council
stock.
We
are
encouraging
the
private
rented
stock
to
do
so
and
also
owner
occupiers
as
well,
but
yeah.
E
Just
thanks
to
scrutiny
board
members
who
have
been
on
board
with
all
of
this
work.
I
know
you
have
been
aware
of
it
for
a
couple
of
years
now,
and-
and
hopefully
you
can
agree
this
time,
actually
that
that
the
council
have
got
the
commitment
right
on
this
and
are
actually
delivering.
So
thanks
chair.
A
Yep
no,
no,
I
would
endorse,
what's
just
been
said,
thank
you
very
much
council
cooper,
so
to
remove
it
if
people
who
normally
would
leave
at
this
point,
I
think
just
remain
for
a
few
minutes,
because
I
do
want
to
say
a
number
of
thank
yous,
but
I
want
to
get
through
work
schedule.
First
of
all,
so
becky
has
prepared
a
note
of
what
we're
suggesting
to
the
successor
board
that
they
may
wish
to
consider
in
terms
of
work
and
that'll
be
getting
added
to
all
the
time.
A
But
the
major
item
that
we've
got
here
is
the
river
cleanliness
inquiry
report,
which
was
written
by
helen
gray,
and
you
know
this
was
an
excellent
piece
of
work.
Well.
Organized
well
set
up
a
lot
of
research.
Helen
did
a
lot
of
research
behind
the
scenes
to
make
sure
that
as
members
we
had
links,
we
had
people
giving
us
reports.
A
A
A
I
would
like
to
thank
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
thank
becky
atherton
for
the
work
that
she's
put
in
behind
the
scenes,
as
well
organizing
things
and,
as
anybody
knows
me
keeping
me
on
the
right
side
and
prodding
me
when
I'm
to
do
the
right
thing
at
the
right
time
and
to
challenge
me
on
a
number
of
things
as
well,
and
I
think
we've
had
an
excellent
scrutiny
board
this
year
as
a
result
of
the
work
that
becky's
done.
I
would
reiterate
the
thanks.
A
I've
just
passed
to
helen
who
has
been
involved
with
this
board
for
the
last
two
to
three
years
by
taking
on
tasks
and
you
know,
is
a
welcome
addition
to
the
team,
but
most
of
all,
I'd
like
to
start
thanking
you
as
a
scrutiny
board
for
the
way
that
you
have
conducted
ourselves
this
year.
I
think
we've
done
some
excellent
work.
We've
looked
at
a
lot
of
good
things
that
affect
our
residents
on
a
day-to-day
basis
and
in
the
main
I
would
probably
say,
the
council
are
moved
well
in
the
right
direction.
A
A
I
said
goodbye
to
council
gruen
last
year,
because
at
that
point
we
were
going
to
say
goodbye
to
councillor
gruen
at
that
point
after
his
years
and
years
and
years
of
service,
but
covered
has
meant
that
I'm
repeating
myself.
I
can't
remember
exactly
what
I
said
yesterday
last
year,
but
what
was
interesting
at
council
yesterday
was
all
the
people
who
congratulated
peter
and
wished
him
all
the
best,
and
I
think,
without
exception
all
said.
We
disagree
with
peter
on
a
lot
of
things,
but
outside
of
the
meetings
he's
a
really
nice
chap.
A
A
But
can
I
thank
councillor
khan
for
his
diligence
and
hard
work
on
the
scrutiny
board
and,
yes,
he's
got
a
difficult
act
to
follow
in
terms
of
the
current
lord
mayor,
but
knowing
council
can
how
I
do.
I
think
we
are
in
safe
hands
the
city
that
we're
going
to
be
equally
well
led
in
the
future,
and
I
wish
you
every
success
and
a
fantastic
year.
Thanks
for.
N
N
Seeing
that
neil
is
in
front
of
me
now,
I
have
no
idea
how
he
held
on
to
housing
for
so
long
having
moved
into
the
center,
but
he's
been
a
fantastic
director
of
housing
and
I've
really
enjoyed
working
with
his
wisdom,
his
patience,
his
good
humor,
and
only
occasionally
did
he
feel
did
he
fail
to
keep
beyond
the
straight
and
narrow,
but
he
tried
ever
so
hard
to
do
so.
So,
thank
you
all
very
much
indeed.
I
wish
you
all
the
very
best.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you,
chad.
Just
briefly,
I'm
going
to
say
thank
you
to
you.
It's
been
my
pleasure
to
be
on
the
scrutiny
board
and
you've
been
a
fair
chair
and
I've
been
on
the
scrutiny
for
a
long
time,
especially
in
the
housing
environment,
communities
and
it's
you
know,
we've
done
fantastic
work
together
and
I'm
not
going
nowhere,
but
I'm
going
to
go
away
for
one
year,
hopefully
fingers
crossed
and
just
want
to
say
it's
been
a
pleasure
to
be
on
this
group
and
really
enjoyed
every
bit
of
it
as
well.