►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Everyone
welcome
to
today's
air
scrutiny
board
meeting.
This
is
screening
board
meeting
for
the
strategy
and
resources
board.
As
you
already
know,
it's
a
special
meeting.
It's
called
a
call-in
there's
a
special
process
that
we
need
to
go
through
and
Rob
the
principal
screen
advisor
will
run
through
that
in
in
due
course
and
shortly.
A
We
also
will
note
some
apologies
for
this
meeting,
including
councilor
Chapman,
Council,
Almas,
councilor,
mayor
France
and
councilor
Flynn,
who
is
here
and
the
details
of
why
he's
not
going
to
be
a
voting
member
today
will
be
explained
shortly.
I
just
want
to
be
really
clear
today
that
this
approach
is
to
be
gone
through
and
our
job
is
to
look
at
the
facts
before
us
and
scrutinize
those
fairly,
but
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
focus
on
the
requirements
of
us.
A
So,
in
this
case
again,
Rob
will
explain
this
in
more
detail
but
specifically
about
the
executive
report
that
went
to
to
executive
board
on
the
21st
of
September
in
the
item
on
suitability
and
convictions,
policy
and
so
I'm
quite
Keen,
to
keep
to
that
remit.
Because
of
the
legal
nature
of
this
discussion,
we
have
a
legal
advisor
in
the
room.
A
We
don't
normally
have
that
for
a
scrutiny
board,
but
we
do
today,
okay,
so
with
that,
let's
do
some
introductions,
so
I
managed
Scopes
I'm,
a
counselor
for
the
Beast
and
Albert
Ward
I'm,
the
chair
of
the
strategy
and
resources,
scrutiny,
board
and
I'll
be
chairing
today's
meeting.
If
we
go
this
way,
everyone
on
the
table,
please
introduce
yourselves.
B
D
I
Good
morning,
Billy
Flynn,
I'm,
councilman,
Warfare
award
and
I've
arranged
the
call
in
today
and
just
a
quick
explanation.
I
didn't
think
it
would
be
appropriate
for
me
to
be
voting
on
my
own
call
in,
which
is
why
we,
we
thought
it'd
be
more
appropriate
for
a
deputy
to
stand
in
for
me.
Okay,
thank
you.
F
K
F
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
chair
item.
Six
is
the
briefing
paper
on
how
the
Collins
operate
and
the
procedures
that
we
follow
I
mean
in
in
summary,
chair
fairly
brief
summary.
The
strategy
resources
board
have
received
a
calling
request
which
adheres
to
the
measures
set
out
in
the
executive
and
decision-making
procedure
rules
the
calling
relates
to
minute
43
of
the
executive
mod
held
on
the
21st
of
September,
which
is
taxing
private,
hire,
licensing,
results
of
consultation
on
suitability,
minor
motoring
convictions,
I
think
and
the
document
covers
the
sorry.
F
The
report
covers
a
number
of
procedure,
items
which
I
think
you're
going
to
come
to
chair
as
well.
I
think
the
key
one
of
the
key
areas
is
that
the
calling
meeting
is
specific
to
this
to
the
report
before
us.
The
one
I've
just
referred
to
and
other
related
decisions
may
not
be
considered
as
part
of
the
board's
decision
making,
process,
I.
Think
and
then,
once
we've
gone
through
the
procedural
elements,
so
the
chair
will
talk
about
about.
F
The
board
will
eventually
come
to
two
options
of
voting
which
option
one
would
be
to
release
the
decision
for
implementation
option.
Two
would
be
to
recommend
that
the
decision
is
reconsidered
and
if,
for
any
reason,
neither
of
those
options
are
are
chosen
or
for
whatever
reason
that
may
be,
then
option
one
would
be
the
adopted
approach.
A
A
Okay,
so
just
in
terms
of
how
I'm
going
to
manage
the
meeting
today,
I
know
it's
in
your
pack,
but
it's
just
worth
saying
for
people
watching
and
for
Calamity
councilor
Flynn
is
going
to
be
able
to
present
his
paper
and
his
reasons.
Why
and
then
the
board
will
be
able
to
ask
him
questions
after
that
section
is
over
councilor,
Cooper
and
or
those
around
obviously
I'm,
sorry
about
your
throat.
A
But
so
anyone
else
in
your
team
who
wants
to
present
is
very
welcome
to
and
then
we'll
ask
questions
of
you
and
then
councilor
Flynn
will
get
no
sorry,
Council
Cooper
will
get
to
sum
up
and
then
councilor
Flynn
will
sum
up
and
at
the
end
those
two
summing
ups
are
going
to
be
timed.
So
so
we
don't
go
through
everything.
We've
just
gone
to
again.
A
In
my
head,
it's
going
to
depend
on
how
the
time
at
that
point
so
if,
if
it's
later
on,
I'll
have
a
shorter
period
but
I'll
tell
them
both
and
they'll
both
get
the
same
summing
up
time,
just
to
be
really
clear
and
then
we'll
move
to
a
vote
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
be
really
clear
on
that
process.
We
need
to
make
sure
we
do
that
that
properly.
Okay,
so
are
there
any
questions
from
the
board
about
that
or
any
questions
before
we
sort
of
start
the
the
process?
A
I
Thank
you
Andrew
and
good
morning.
Everybody.
First
of
all,
thank
you
for
for
coming.
In
this
morning.
I
know
it
was
very
short
notice,
but
unfortunately,
the
the
timetable
for
call-ins
is
very
tight,
so
we
had
very
little
alternative,
particularly
as
I'm
on
leave
anyway,
from
from
from
Monday
I've
also
been
asked
on
behalf
of
the
trade
to
pass
on
their
apology.
I
This
is
a
holy
day
for
many
of
our
drivers
and
they
would
have
liked
to
have
been
here,
but
obviously
for
for
religious
reasons.
They
can't
be
here
so
I
think.
As
you
can
see,
there
are
a
few
representatives
of
the
trade
behind
me
right,
I.
Don't
think
anyone
would
disagree
that
the
the
taxi
and
private
hire
trade
are
an
essential
part
of
the
city's
economy
and
particularly
the
nighttime
economy.
I
Do
one
of
the
hardest
hit
parts
of
the
economy
during
the
lockdown
and
least
supportive,
because
of
their
self-employed
status
and
since
they've
come
back
to
work.
They've
been
faced
with
a
number
of
other
complications
around
the
city.
You
you
will
know
all
the
various
improvements
may
be
made
to
the
hedrow
and
bus
Gates
and
all
of
various
other
things.
What
you
may
not
know
is
that
Hackney
carriages
are
allowed
to
drive
into
bus
lanes
and
and
other
restricted
areas.
I
The
private
high
trade,
which
is
by
far
the
higher
the
higher
of
the
two,
are
not
the
number
of
drop-off
and
pickup
points
have
all
be
also
been
reduced
significantly
and
for
the
Hackney
Carriage
part
of
the
trade.
The
number
of
stands
that
they
have
have
been
reduced
significantly
on
the
size
of
the
statins
have
been
reduced
significantly
as
well
people
working
from
home.
I
You
will
know
the
reduced
passenger
loads
on
on
buses
Etc
exactly
the
same
thing.
That's
happened
to
the
taxi
trade
and
they've
also
lost
hundreds
of
drivers
like
many
other
parts
of
the
economy
as
well.
So
I'd
like
you
to
see
that
in
in
the
call
in
the
context
of
that,
because
it's
almost
been
a
perfect
storm
for
for
the
drivers,
a
low
licensing
itself
is
quite
complex.
I
In
my
view,
the
only
issue
you
need
to
consider
today
is
safeguarding,
and
particularly
the
safeguarding
of
children
and
vulnerable
adults,
but
also
every
passenger.
That
goes
in
one
of
our
licensed
vehicles,
but
bear
in
mind
that
the
only
thing
we're
talking
about
today
are
minor
motoring
convictions.
I
That's
all
it
is.
It
doesn't
involve
injury,
it
doesn't
involve
damage
to
vehicles
and
various
other
things
and
they're
quite
separate
and
more
severe
penalties
for
serious
offenses
and
quite
rightly
you'll,
be
hearing
about
safeguarding
this
morning
and
about
department
for
transport,
guidance,
statutory
guidance
or
statutory
practice
and
the
Institute
of
Licensing
guidance
from
there.
I
If
you've
read
the
executive
board
papers,
you
will
see
that
dozens
of
local
authorities,
while
implementing
sort
of
parts
of
the
guidance,
have
gone
their
own
way
in
in
various
sort
of
various
aspects,
and
that
includes
the
the
other
West
Yorkshire
authorities
that
you'll
also
be
hearing
about
later
on
this
morning
and
as
I
understand,
it's
six
authorities
have
adopted
a
red,
Amber
and
green
approach.
To
this,
don't
ask
me,
because
it
doesn't
make
any
sense
at
all
to
me
to
qualify
for
a
license
in
Leeds.
I
You
might
ask
why
officers
are
trying
to
try
to
change.
A
very
successful
system
has
been
in
place
for
nine
years,
because
that's
the
length
of
time
it's
been
in
and
he
might
even
ask
whether
there
is
even
a
problem
since
the
current
policy
came
into
Force
about
nine
years
ago,
only
six
of
our
drivers,
six
of
our
drivers,
have
had
their
licenses
revoked
because
of
an
accumulation
of
points.
That's
the
very
important
thing
to
remember
here,
because
we're
talking
about
Minor
motoring
convictions.
I
There's
an
old,
saying
and
I
think
it's
very
appropriate
here
this
morning.
If
it
ain't
broke,
don't
fix
it.
Those
of
you've
been
around
for
a
while
will
have
seen
the
number
of
demonstrations
the
drivers
have
had
both
in
industrial
action,
but
also
outside
this
particular
building.
Here,
I
I
really
should
emphasize
and
sorry
about
your
throat
this
morning,
Debbie
or
maybe
not
as
the
case
may
be,
I
have
to
emphasize
this.
With
this
calling
is
no
reflection
on
Debbie
Cooper.
Far
from
it.
I
I
Following
that
meeting
the
following
day.
In
fact,
I
wrote
to
the
then
chair
of
the
licensing
committee,
Ben
Garner,
I
wrote
to
James
Lewis
and
I
also
wrote
to
the
leader
of
the
council
to
warn
them.
I'll
do
a
major
concerns
within
the
trade,
the
quicker
they
were
addressed.
The
better
I
have
to
say
there
wasn't
a
great
deal
of
reaction
to
that,
which
is
why
we're
here
today,
as
I
said
before,
the
current
policy
has
been
in
place
for
around
nine
years
and
has
never
been
challenged.
I
Just
bear
that
in
mind.
It's
never
been
challenged
by
anybody.
It's
quite
right
that
these
policies
should
be
reviewed
and
they
are
required
to
be
reviewed
on
a
fairly
regular
basis,
but
it
doesn't
mean
they
have
to
be
changed
in
that
time.
As
I
said
before,
only
six
drivers
out
of
six
thousand
have
had
their
licenses
revoked
for
an
accumulation
of
points
which
equates
I,
think
to
about
0.1
percent
of
the
number
of
drivers
and
just
over
one
percent
of
our
drivers
have
seven
points
or
more
on
their
licenses.
I
I
The
drivers
are
particularly
agreed
that
other
Public
Service
drivers
are
not
subject
to
the
same
strict
criteria
that
they
are
or
they're
being
asked
to
be
subject
to,
although
they
also
carry
passages.
Members
of
the
public
includes
bus
drivers,
ambulance
drivers,
NHS
generally,
even
our
own
LCC
drivers
who
carry
very
vulnerable
adults
and
extremely
vulnerable
children.
They
are
not
required
to
stick
to
the
same
criteria
and
you
might
ask
why
the
taxi
drivers
are
being
treated
in
a
different
way
to
our
own
employees.
I
I
would
suggest
that
the
points
threshold
that
you're
looking
at
today
were
predetermined
by
officers,
because
there
is
no
evidence
that
those
points
or
others
all
have
been
changed
or
been
attempted
to
be
changed
or
whatever,
despite
any
number
of
consultation
meetings
since
the
end
of
the
consultation
process,
which
finished
almost
12
months
ago.
Incidentally,
you
need
to
ask
yourself
if
94
of
the
drivers
and
Trade
union
reps
were
opposed
to
this
policy
that
wrote
Into
the
the
consultation
process.
I
I
The
consultation
documentation
made
no
mention
of
the
tiny
number
of
licensed
revocations
in
Leeds
under
the
current
policy,
which
I
feel
would
have
been
far
more
appropriate
to
include
insufficient
accounts
has
been
taken
to
the
almost
total
opposition
of
the
trade
and
the
representatives
to
propose
evictions
element
of
the
suitability
policy,
as
I
said
before,
94
of
them,
the
statutory
guidance
on
consultation
indicates.
It
should
not
only
include
taxi
and
private
higher
trades,
but
also
groups
likely
to
be
the
trades
customers.
I
If
you've
read
the
results
of
the
consultation
itself,
you
will
see
that
almost
100
responders
were
very
clear
that
they
had
nothing
to
do
with
the
taxi
trade,
nor
did
they
use,
taxis
or
private
hire
vehicles.
In
my
view,
their
view
should
have
been
discounted
because
they
do
not
fit
the
criteria
for
consultation.
I
I
mean
what
do
they
know?
Do
they,
even
you
know,
have
any
appreciation
of
the
issues
in
handy
if
they've
never
used,
taxi
and
they're
not
likely
to
use
a
taxi,
a
further
61
would
Undeclared.
So
you
could
argue
that
almost
150
of
the
Consultants
that
responded
were
not
in
favor
or
lease
base
had
no
contact
or
no
context
at
all,
with
a
taxi
or
private
hire
trade,
and
that
would
significantly
reduce
the
proportion
of
the
consultees
that
voted
against
this
change
in
the
in
in
the
convictions
policy.
I
A
J
Thank
you
very
much
Sharon.
Thank
you
for
that
presentation.
Council
of
Finn
you
mentioned
about
the
situation
with
regards
to
other
neighboring
authorities,
and
it
is
clear
to
me
with
some
providers
there
are
other
licensed
operators
in
from
other
authorities
working
within
our
city.
Can
you
confirm
what
the
situation
is
in
regards
to
how
the
other
authorities
in
particular
apply
certain
standards
in
their
authorities
that
then
pursue
the
trade
in
Leeds.
I
Yeah
I
mean
I,
can't
comment
on
the
on
the
standards
that
they
use
in
their
in
their
particular
sort
of
Licensing
areas.
What
I
can
comment
on
is
that
there
are.
There
are
hundreds,
if
not
thousands,
of
drivers
that
are
licensed
elsewhere
like
come
into
leads,
and
if
you
look
you
know
it's
not
something
you
would
normally
notice.
But
if
you
look
at
any
taxi,
that's
driving
through
leads.
You
will
see
very
quickly
whether
or
not
that
vehicle
was
licensed
in
Leeds
or
not.
I
Now
it's
the
law,
but
if
a
vehicle
is
picking
up
or
letting
down
in
the
Leeds
area,
irrespective
of
where
they're
licensed
they
can
do
so,
what
they're
not
allowed
to
do
is
to
apply
for
hire
in
the
leads.
It's
not
they're
not
allowed
to
to
apply
for
hire
in
Leeds.
Now
it's
a
particular
annoyance
of
the
drivers
here
that,
while
they
have
a
very
strict
criteria
to
actually
qualify
for
a
license
and
also
the
vehicle.
Similarly
other
authorities
don't
have
the
same
kind
of
restrictions.
I
I
know
that
these
drivers
are
challenged
because
I've
seen
videos
of
of
enforcement
officers
actually
challenging
them,
but
the
simple
fact
of
the
matter
is
because
of
the
introduction
of
apps
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
which
nobody
would
have
anticipated
three
or
four
years
ago
effectively.
It's
decimated.
J
No
thank
you
for
that
and
I
hope.
If,
if
obviously
you
can't
give
that
clarification,
that
could
be
reflected
on
if
Council
officers
are
able
to
provide
that
information.
That
would
be
helpful
because
I
do
know
from
personal
experience.
For
example,
we
have
certain
standards
about
the
vehicle
quality
as
well,
for
example
that
also
are
different
to
or
are
significantly
higher
standard
than
that
of
other
neighboring
authorities
that
potentially
through
the
apps.
They
may
then
still
work
in
the
city,
whether
they're
playing
a
trade
or
not.
As
a
result
of
that.
J
Obviously,
we
are
in
a
situation
whereby
we
are
looking
at
these
opposition
that
was
brought
forward
by
the
number
of
license
holders
and
others
in
the
city.
Has
there
been
any
attempts
in
your
view,
or
has
there
been
otherwise
any
feedback
that
you've
heard
from
the
trade
about
how
they've
tried
to
influence
the
opinion?
Given
you
feel
that
this
is
not
being
listened
to
as
a
result
of
the
consultation.
I
Yeah
I
think,
as
I
said
before,
Debbie
Cooper,
once
she
took
over
this,
the
licensing
portfolio,
I
think
I've
got
your
throat
Debbie,
so
apologies
for
that
she's
had
a
series
of
meetings
with
with
the
trade,
both
the
private
higher
side
and
the
acne
Carriage
side,
but
I
think
it's
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
there's
not
been
an
awful
lot
of
progress
made
in
terms
of
the
of
this
particular
issue.
The
minor
motrin's
conviction
element
consultation,
yes,
Communications
much
better.
J
Sorry,
thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
well,
no.
The
reason
I
asked
that
is
because
of
the
fact
that,
obviously,
as
part
of
the
guidance
that
you
mentioned,
that
there
needs
to
be
conscientious
consideration
for
the
results
of
the
consultation,
and
it
just
seems
that
potentially
that
before
the
well,
the
number
of
points
that
was
judged
to
be
relevant
was
predetermined
and
hasn't
changed
despite
the
overwhelming
opposition,
and
it
doesn't
seem
to
have
been
any
change
or
even
discussion
of
a
change
or
consideration
after
the
consultation.
J
I
I
A
F
F
Isn't
it
the
case,
though,
that
most
public,
however,
hiring
taxi
drivers
are
covered
by
statutory
guidance,
passenger
vehicle
drivers
or
not?
So
it's
isn't
it
rather
erroneous,
and
rather
inflammatory
suggests
that
taxi
drivers
have
been
singled
out
in
some
manner.
I,
just
I
think
that
should
be
made
clear.
F
I!
Think!
Isn't
it
also
the
case
that
West
Yorkshire
councils
are
actually
being
more
stringent
than
Leeds
would
be
even
with
the
new
system
in
place?
I
think
that's
an
important
point
to
consider
and
isn't
this
also
the
case
that
the
city
council
is
interpreting
statutory
governmental
guidance.
So,
given
its
governmental
guidance,
have
you
made
any
representations
to
members
of
parliament
or
ministers
given
that
you're
a
representative
of
the
governing
party,
and
also
during
your
analysis
of
the
consultation?
F
I
I'll
finish:
I'll
start
with
the
the
last
one,
the
requirement
to
actually
approach
the
people
in
concern
is
part
of
the
statutory
guidance
for
consultation
in
terms
of
taxi
drives
being
singled
out.
Well,
they
are,
who
else
is
is
being
asked
to
you
know
to
have
this
kind
of
approach
by
their
statutory
sort
of
authorities
our
own
drivers
aren't
asked
to
do
it,
so
you
might
ask
if
it's
good
enough
for
taxi
drivers
who
are
driving
just
as
vulnerable
and
in
some
cases,
more
vulnerable
passengers?
F
Isn't
it
the
case
that
this
is
the
government
interpreting
the
council,
interpreting
strategy
government
guidance
and
isn't
it
the
case
that
we're
sure
councils,
otherwise
councils
are
actually
being
more
stringent
either
in
the
new
system?
And
just
on
your
point
that
you
said
those
Public
Service
Vehicle
drivers.
As
far
as
understanding,
we
can
clear
this
up
chair
with
with
questions
with
officers
and
not
subject
to
the
same
strategy
guidance.
So
they
it's.
It's
an
erroneous
point
to
make.
I
It
is
statutory
guidance,
but
the
key
word
is
is
guidance
and
within
it
there
is
flexibility
in
the
same
way
as
sort
of
planning
is
flexible
and
when
you
mentioned
about
leads
having
a
very
stringent
sort
of
licensing
process.
I
actually
commented
on
that
during
my
presentation.
In
fact,
we
are
I
think
quite
proud
of
the
fact
that
the
the
standards
we
have
for
taxi
drivers
and
private
hire
are
better
than
most.
I
B
A
couple
of
queries
really
based
on
them
the
points
around
taxis
coming
in
from
other
areas
and
then
they're
kind
of
not
broke,
don't
fix
it
approach
that
you're
laid
out.
Obviously,
I
represent
an
area
on
the
border
where
the
borders
are
lines
in
the
sand,
but
they're
not
lines
in
the
sand
in
how
anyone
lives
their
life.
B
B
It's
my
understanding
so
that
that
not
broke
don't
fix.
It
approaches
looking
at
our
current
policy
and
then
obviously
the
policy
that
that
you
were
looking
to
bring
in.
But
it's
my
understanding
that
Bradford
adopted
the
the
more
Fuller
and
less
adapted
as
we've
tried
to
do
through
consultation
mode
of
the
the
guidance
came
from
The
Institute
of
Licensing.
B
Obviously,
there
we've
got
evidence
to
see
how
that's
working
I
wondered
whether
you'd
looked
at
any
of
those
other
authorities
in
West
Yorkshire,
who
have
already
adopted
this
to
see
whether
it's
caused
issue,
because
I
think
we're
basing
a
point
here
on
whether
the
existing
policy
causes
an
issue
and
whether
this
new
one
will
I
I,
haven't
heard
anything
from
drivers
that
live
in
in
my
ward,
but
work
in
a
licensed
in
Bradford.
That
there's
been
any
concerns
and
I
just
wondered.
B
If
you
had
raised
questions
with
those
other
councils
that
had
taken
this
aboard
to
see
whether
there's
actually
a
problem
with
this
guidance
when
it's
implemented,
which
I
know
you're
implying,
will
be
the
case.
But
obviously
there
should
be
evidence
there.
If,
if
this
policy-
and
in
fact
a
more
stricter
version
of
this
policy,
is
in
place
in
other
authorities,.
I
I
But
what
we're
discussing
here
this
morning
is
the
Leeds
one
and
the
fact
that
we
we
have
a.
We
have
a
convictions
policy
in
place
that
has
not
caused
any
problems
whatsoever
and
only
six
drivers
have
had
their
licenses
revoked
in
the
nine
years
or
so
that
the
the
current
policy
has
actually
been
in
place.
But
I
mean
I've
seen
newspaper
headlines
recently
about
Wakefield
demonstrations
in
Wakefield
about
this
particular
sort
of
element.
I
I
do
know,
I
think
from
what
Andrew
has
said
to
me
recently
that,
although
the
West
Yorkshire
authorities
may
have
adopted
the
the
seven
point,
sort
of
element
of
it,
because
there
are
variations,
you
know
I,
don't
think
they've
all
stuck
entirely
to
what
you
know.
What
we've,
in
fact,
the
one
that
we've
suggested
is
different
from
what
the
other
West
yorkshire's
authorities
are
actually
doing.
If
it's
worked
here
previously
and
with
no
reason
to
suspect
it
won't
work
properly
in
future,
why
would
we
change
it?.
B
Council
just
come
back
briefly:
I
mean
I'll,
come
back
with
the
same
I,
always
believe
in
asking
the
same
questions
of
yourself
as
I.
Will
then,
when,
when
we
hear
from
offices
as
as
well
I
think
the
difficulty
is
trying
to
compare
two
policies,
the
existing
one
and
obviously,
as
you've
mentioned,
we
have
adapted
this
from
speaking
to
the
trade
and
coming
up
with
with
a
variant
that
we
feel
will
work
better
in
leads,
but
it's
very
hard
without
that
evidence
from
authorities.
B
Who've
put
this
in
to
compare
the
two
policies
like
for,
like
you
can
say,
there's
a
not
broke.
Why
fix
it?
The
the
policy
that
we're
recommending
here
may
not
be
broke
and
and
it
from
from
my
evidence,
I
haven't
seen
drivers
in
in
Bradford
who
live
in
my
ward,
of
which
there
are
many
coming
back
to
me
to
say:
they've
had
problems
with
the
the
policy
that
has
been
adopted
in
Bradford.
B
So
that's
what
I'm
trying
to
get
to
just
comparing
those
two
like
for
like
because
I
think
there's
there's
the
policy
we
know,
and
there
is
this
one.
That's
the
unknown
that
I
can
understand.
Drivers
will
have
will
have
queries
around
because
it
hasn't
been
put
in
place
yet,
but
we
do
have
that
evidence,
because
there
are
authorities
where
it's
been
put
in
place
and
and
it
would
just
be
useful
to
understand
that
difference
of
how
it's
worked
there
in
order
to
help
us
make
that
decision.
I
Well,
I,
don't
know
at
what
stage
the
other
authorities
are
at
in
terms
of
implementing
whatever
policy
they've
got
in
place.
Andrew
will
probably
be
able
to
give
you
that
sort
of
information,
but,
just
to
you
said
something
right
at
the
very
start
about
the
consultation
with
the
trade.
You
know
they're
totally
opposed
to
this.
You
know
you
look
at
the
results
of
the
of
the
consultation.
94
of
the
responders
are
against
this
policy.
I
A
E
It's
also
about
the
drivers,
so
I
don't
think
we
should
be
using
anything
as
a
tool
that
makes
it
look
like
we're
over
egging
it
and
I
certainly
would
Advocate.
Perhaps
we
can
do
some
work
looking
at
safeguarding
the
trade,
because
I
think
that's
equally
important,
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
that
point
now.
I
was
telephone.
E
Last
night
by
a
member,
a
taxi
driver,
a
member
of
the
trade
who
and
the
things
he
wanted
to
do
because
with
me
horrified
me,
because
I
think
the
trade
has
been
incredibly
misled
around
this
whole
process.
So
if
we
could
just
put
some
clarity
around
it,
I
don't
know
if
anybody's
watching,
but
certainly
for
the
people
in
this
room
happy
to
be
contradicted
by
any
of
the
officers
are
by
councilor
Cooper.
E
There
has
been
a
consultation
and
in
any
consultation
there
will
always
be
some
bias.
Where
you
have
a
vested
interest,
always
will
be.
That's
just
that's
just
fact.
Isn't
it
I
believe
that
that
consultation
was
carried
out
fairly
and
that's
born
out?
Isn't
it
by
the
large
number
of
responses,
because
if
it
wasn't
carried
out
fairly,
if
it
was
carried
out
covertly
then
we
wouldn't
have
had
the
huge
amount
of
responses.
We've
had
Wakefield
adopted
a
policy
of
seven
points
and
then
you're
out
this.
E
This
local
Authority
have
said
seven
points
or
eight
points.
You
will
undertake
training
if
you
are
working
in
that
trade.
That's
much
more
I
know
you're
shaking
your
head,
but
I'm
reading
what
I'm
reading
and
that's
all
I
can
go
on.
What's
written,
that's
that's
much
more
generous
than
in
other
policies,
and
it's
actually
being
it's
taking
people's
views
into
consideration.
E
There
is
a
limit,
isn't
there,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
this
Authority
has
the
responsibility
to
carry
out
licensing.
They
have
the
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
passengers
are
safeguarded
and
I've
heard
the
argument
on
several
occasions.
Why
don't?
Our
drivers
have
to
do
it.
Why
don't
that?
E
And
it's
a
it's
quite
an
emotive
thing
to
say:
isn't
it,
but
the
hard
fact
is
bus
drivers,
they're
covered
by
PCB
regulations,
completely
different,
we're
comparing
apples
and
pears,
and
it's
not
fair
to
the
trade
to
do
that,
because
we're
raising
their
expectations
and
I'm
saying
things
that
they
won't
like.
But
I'm
saying
in
the
in
the
Realms
of
fairness.
E
But
they
will
also
be
subject
to
disciplinary
policies,
and
that's
why
we
have
trade
unions
who
will
work
with
managers
to
make
sure
that
those
disciplinary
policies
are
applied
fairly,
so
to
compare
them
to
a
separate
licensed
trade
is
simply
not
right
and
it's
simply
not
fair,
because
it
raises
expectations
within
the
trade.
Now
I
think
that
the
trade
does
have
issues
but
they're,
not
these
ones
in
here,
I
I
think
there's
things
about
people
crossing
borders
which
actually
is
not
part
of
this
calling.
E
Is
it
so
we
shouldn't
even
be
discussing
it
and
I
think
there's
a
whole
part
of
work.
We
could
work
with
the
trade
and
I
know
for
a
fact.
From
the
conversation
I
had
last
night,
people
have
been
talking
to
the
trade
and
telling
them
things
that
are
quite
simple:
I,
don't
mean
you
Billy
I
just
want
to
clarify
that
quite
simply,
not
true.
So
this
calling
I'm
going
to
repeat
the
process
and
I
know
it's
already
said
we
convert
it
through
it,
which
okay,
so
it'll
just
go
through
unamended.
E
We
can
refer
it
back
to
our
executive
team
and
they
will
make
a
decision,
but
in
all
honesty,
they've
spent
a
long
time
making
that
decision
and
I
can't
speak
for
what
they'll
do,
but
they've
already
made
a
decision
and
we
can
not
do
anything.
It'll
go
through
it's
unfair
to
the
trade
to
be
raising
expectations
and
using
spurious
arguments
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
the
hard
facts
and
the
hard
facts
is
taxi.
Driving
is
a
standalone,
discrete
operation.
E
This
Authority
it
has
responsibility
to
carry
out
that
to
the
best
of
their
ability
and
in
the
safest
ways.
I'm
reading
this
I
think
we've
done
that
I
would
also
add
I.
Think
there's
a
huge
chunk
of
work.
We
need
to
do
to
support
the
trade
to
look
after
their
livelihood,
but
it
needs
to
be
done
on
a
totally
honest
footing.
E
I
think
the
consultation
was
and
I
don't
think
that
this
and
other
conversations
that
have
taken
part
since
then
are
doing
anybody
any
favors,
and
we
need
to
get
this
implemented
and
carry
on
working
with
that
trade
to
make
sure
that
they
can
carry
on
earning
a
living
that
what
turned
into
a
bit
more
monologue.
Didn't
it
sorry.
A
I
I
I
can
tell
you
from
the
trade
and
a
lot
more
emails
as
well,
but
I'm
not
saying
you
know
effective
what
the
trade
are
telling
me
to
say
far
from
it
and
so
far
as
the
assistance
that
you've
asked
for
for
the
trade
to
help
them,
you
know
get
on
from
where
they
are
now.
That's
exactly
what
Debbie
Cooper
has
been
trying
to
do
since
he
took
over
licensing
but
to
come
back
to
the
original
Point.
I
What
we're
talking
about
here
today
is
a
is
a
is
a
an
element
of
the
of
the
suitability
and
convictions
policy
which
is
dealing
with
minor
motoring
convictions
and
nothing
else.
Now.
I
I
I'm
rather
agreed
that
you
said
what
you
know.
I
was
talking
about
something
emotive
that
that
was
not
my
intention
at
all.
I
The
whole
point
of
statutory
guidance
and
practice,
which
again
you
may
be
hearing
about
later
on,
is
to
ensure
safeguarding
and
I
made
that
point
right
at
the
very
start
and
I
just
made
the
point
that
you
know
that
there's
no
question
of
safeguarding
being
endangered
here,
we're
talking
about
one
element
of
the
suitability
and
convictions
policy,
which
is
just
a
minor
motoring
convictions.
Nothing
else.
I
That's
all
that
was
discussed
by
the
executive
board
and
that's
all
we
should
be
considering
here
today
and
I
accept
it's
your
opinion
on
all
the
rest
of
it.
I'm
doing
this
because
I've
been
involved
in
this
for
three
years,
I've
been
to
meeting
after
meeting
after
meeting
after
meeting
I
was
part
of
the
the
working
group
with
Hannah
Bethel.
Actually
it
was.
I
It
was
Hannah
and
I
that
actually
suggested
the
seven
eight
and
nine
points,
and
we
suggested
it
at
the
working
party,
because
it
was
clear
that
the
trade
would
not
accept
what
the
what
the
council
was
trying
to
do.
We
came
up
with
it
completely
separately
as
as
a
way
of
getting
through
to
the
second
stage
of
consultation,
because
that's
all
that
was
we.
I
We
we
had
an
agreement
that
they
would
look
at
the
seven
eights
and
nine
points
regime
as
a
starting
point
for
the
consultation
it
took
us
months
to
get
to
that
stage
that
that's
how
difficult
it
was,
and
your
point
well
made
about
the
number
of
people
who
came
back,
I
didn't
say
the
consultation
wasn't
fair.
I
said
the
one
or
two
aspects
of
it
that
I
felt
you
know
weren't
quite
right
and
post
the
consultation
as
the
statutory
guidance
requires.
I
As
everybody
keeps
reminding
me,
you
know
you
have
to
take
account
of
the
significant
amount.
The
huge
amount
of
opposition
to
this
from
the
trade,
94
and
I
think
I'm
right
in
saying
that
the
the
percentage
of
people
against
the
proposal
rather
than
for
it
you
know,
was
in
favor
of
against.
So
thanks.
E
Thank
you,
Billy
I
just
want
to
stress.
It
certainly
wasn't
directed
at
yourself.
But
but
it's
comments
like
you
know.
If
it's
not
broken,
why
fix
it?
We
want
to
be
the
best
Authority
in
the
country.
We
want
to
have
the
best
trades
in
the
country
so
that
people
are
proud
of
we're
talking
about
taxi
drivers,
so
I'm
gonna
say:
we've
got
the
best
taxi
drivers
in
the
country
and
but
that
doesn't
involve
the
rest
at
bottom.
E
Does
it
it
involves
pushing
so
that
we
get
better
and
better,
and
sometimes
that
involves
parameters
around
it.
Sometimes
it
involves
having
to
say,
doesn't
it
well,
it
needs
to
be
X
or
it
needs
to
be
Y
and,
as
we've
already
said,
in
Wakefield
seven
points
she's
done,
but
in
leads
you're
gonna
get
training,
there'll
be
supported
and
we
can
all
Monitor
and
make
sure
that
that
happens
because
I'm
just
reading
what
I'm
told
and
I
have
no
reason
to
believe
that.
That's
not
true,
but
I
just
want
to
stress.
I
E
Billy
we're
talking
about
a
minuscule
percentage,
aren't
we
which
actually
says
that
the
taxi
drivers
in
Leeds
are
very
good.
If
there's
only
six
and
only
one
percent,
and
perhaps
we
need
to
look
at
what
that
one
percent
was
about
I
haven't,
got
the
details,
so
I
can't
comment
and
how
we
can
prevent.
E
A
You
councilor
I'm
gonna,
move
the
conversation
on
I
accept
the
points
to
be
made
from
both
sides
will
be
made
well.
Thank
you,
I.
Just
it's
this
question
and
answer
not
debate.
I'm,
afraid
I
know
normally
allow
lots
of
debate
in
my
scrutiny,
board
and
I
I
am
enjoying
the
debate,
but
I'm
gonna
move
it
on
okay,
I'm
gonna
bring
in
Council
Richie.
C
C
Also
on
Council
walshaw
asked
the
question
I'm
going
to
ask
but
I'm
going
to
ask
it
again
because
I
don't
think
you
answered
it
properly
and
I
may
have
misheard
you
in
your
presentation,
but
you
did
indicate
that
some
West
Yorkshire
I
thought
he
did
anyway,
that
some
Western
authorities
had
a
lower,
less
strict
policy
of
the
nose,
but
on
bullet
point
11
on
page
24.
It
makes
it
clear,
but
we
align
now
on
the
starting
point,
seven
points
for
for
new
applicants,
but
we're
less
strict
on
the
others.
So
could
you
could
you?
C
Let
me
know
which
local
authorities
in
West
Yorkshire
are
less
strict,
Thanos
and
in
terms
of
a
comment
I
picked
up
in
your
last
response.
When
you
talked
about
your
working
group
with
councilor
Bethel
and
yourself-
and
you
talked
about
seven
eight
and
nine
points-
I
think
that's
what
we've
kind
of
moved
to.
So
you
know
I'm,
not
I'm,
surprised,
you're,
not
happy
with
that.
So
perhaps
you
just
like
to
explain
why
you're
not
satisfied
with
that
and
the
final
thing
on
the
old
it
ain't
broke,
don't
fix
it.
C
The
work's
been
done
now
the
policies
being
passed
by
exec
board
and
you've
made
the
point
that
saw
a
few
drivers
have
been
affected
under
the
current
policy.
I,
don't
think
it's
going
to
affect
again
on
the
statistics
that
we've
been
given
that
it's
it's
going
to
negatively
effective
us.
You
know
the
vast
vast
majority
of
drivers
who
who
don't
have
any
points
on
there.
So
again,
you
know
I,
ask
you:
why
are
you
sort
of
banging
the
drum
on
it?
I
I
The
points
I
was
making
about
the
consultation
sort
of
process
was
that
where
they
aware
in
the
consultation
that
so
few
drivers
had
actually
had
their
licenses
revoked
under
the
current
policy,
if
they
weren't
aware
of
that,
then
they
did
have
a
full
picture
of
of
what
we
were
heading
to,
because
if
you
ask
someone
quite
today,
do
you
want
to
do
you
want
to
make
you
know
things
more
safe
or
whatever
answer's
going
to
be?
Yes,
of
course
it
is,
but
what
they
need
is
is
to
make
an
informed
choice
and
I.
I
I
The
789
thing,
the
the
whole
point
of
the
working
party,
was
to
try
and
get
an
agreement
with
the
trade
about
a
proposed
policy
that
would
go
out
for
consultation.
They
were
refusing
to
accept
what
the
council
wanted
to
do,
and
Hannah
and
I
came
up
with
the
the
alternative
of
a
789
point
system,
but
they
should
consider
that's
all.
It
was
that
that
was
all
that
was
going
to
go
out
to
consultation.
I
C
I
Yeah
but
the
the
the
the
the
eight
fixed,
if
it
ain't
broke,
it's
the
current
policy.
The
current
policy
has
been
in
place
for
almost
nine
years
and
a
handful
of
drivers
I've
had
the
licenses
revoked.
So
what
was
the
point
of
changing
that
particular
element?
This
is
only
one
element
of
the
suitability
and
convictions
policy
and
a
small
element
involving
minor
motoring
convictions.
That's
all
that's
all
we're
talking
about
today.
I
I
mean
essentially
it
ain't
fixed
because
you
wouldn't
be
having
demonstrations
outside
of
the
Civic
Hall
on
a
fairly
regular
basis.
I,
don't
know
how
many
of
you
got
emails.
You
know
during
this
particular
week,
but
I've
I
certainly
didn't
ask
for
them,
but
I've
certainly
got
them
and
I've
had
a
number
of
phone
calls.
If
well
got
my
intention
about
it
too
it.
It
certainly
hasn't
gone
down
well
with
the
trade,
many
of
whom
are
citizens
of
Leeds.
I
A
Thank
you
very
much
so
from
from
my
perspectives,
I've,
probably
well,
I
am
just
I
disagree
with
some
of
my
colleagues
in
that
I
do
think
that
the
bigger
picture
about
how
we
treat
drivers
in
the
city
as
a
whole
is
is
relevant
to
the
discussion
and
on
that
note,
I
know
that
one
of
the
the
consorties,
the
GMB
believe
there
should
be
a
driver's
chart
and
that
would
bring
in
some
of
the
welfare
elements
of
being
more
like
an
employee
into
play.
What's
your
view
on
a
driver's
Charter
foreign.
I
I,
don't
have
the
length
of
sort
of
knowledge
spread
some
knowledge
that
you
know
taxi
drivers
would
need
and
all
the
rest
of
it
I
do
know
that
the
GMB,
along
with
a
lot
of
other
unions,
have
been
involved
in
the
in
the
communications
consultations
with
with
Debbie
over
the
last
12
12
months
or
so
so.
I
think
that
may
well
be
in
hand
but
I'm
not
in
a
position
to
sort
of
comment
on
it.
Okay,.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
so
everyone
who's
indicated
has
asked
questions
so
I'm
gonna
close
this
part
of
the
meeting,
so
we'll
move
on
to
councilor
Cooper.
Hopefully
your
voice
will
hold
out
before
this
and
then
we'll
move
into
to
questions
for
you,
councilor
Flynn.
You
can
be
excused
until
they're.
Summing
up.
Thank
you.
D
This
policy
has
been
the
subject
of
cross-party
discussion
and
consultation
throughout
its
many
years
of
development.
Licensing
committee
is
a
cross-parter
committee,
and
the
working
group
that
was
asked
to
look
at
a
revised
proposal
for
consultation
was
a
cross
party
as
well.
The
licensing
committee
considered
the
results
of
the
consultation
and
made
recommendations
to
the
executive
board.
No
one
at
licensing
committee
voted
against
those
recommendations.
D
It
should
also
be
noted
that
when
the
original
proposals
to
consider
revocation
at
seven
points
were
brought
before
Executive
Board
in
October
2019,
councilor
Carter
was
in
full
support
of
the
proposals
and
critical
that
there
did
not
go
far
enough.
Executive
board
passed
the
recommendations
unanimously.
D
Councilor
Flynn
says
that
he's
concerned
that
his
policy,
this
policy
will
have
a
disproportionate
effect
on
taxi
and
private
high
drivers
to
be
clear.
The
aims
and
objectives
of
the
policy
how
to
maximize
safety
of
the
public
as
paragraph
three
five
and
nine
of
the
executive
board
reports
there,
the
criteria
would
apply
to
all
applicants
and
to
all
existing
license
holders,
although,
as
paragraph
12,
the
report
shows
only
a
small
number
71,
the
drivers
have
seven
or
more
points
on
their
license
and
therefore
would
be
directly
affected
by
the
policy.
D
Only
48
on
9
to
11
points
would
receive
training
and
could
be
revoked
if
they
incurred
further
endorsements
following
attending
that
training.
This
is
not
this
proportionate
approach.
Far
from
it,
the
policy
increases
safety
standards
for
all.
The
travel
in
public
applies
to
all
drivers
and
will
only
affect
those
who
have
the
poorest
driving
standards
by
providing
further
training
to
support
them
to
improve
those
driving
standards,
revocation
will
only
be
considered
as
a
final
result
in
the
most
serious
of
cases
where
drivers
persistently
fail
to
maintain
satisfactory
driving
standards.
D
D
However,
the
number
of
licenses
Revolt
for
motoring
offenses
is
not
the
only
indication
of
the
effectiveness
of
the
policy
to
revocation
or
refusal
to
renew
is
used
as
a
final
Resort.
Only
the
risk
of
losing
a
license
often
serves
to
help
Focus
the
attention
of
the
driver
on
improving
their
driving
standards.
D
As
set
out
in
paragraph
32-34
of
the
executive
board,
report
Leeds
contacted
all
of
the
licensing
authorities
in
England
to
seek
their
current
policy
or
minor
monitoring
convictions,
and
the
majority
who
responded
had
either
implemented
the
seven-point
threshold
recommended
by
The,
Institute
of
Licensing
and
others,
or
a
position
very
close
to
that
agreed
by
executive
pod.
Only
three
of
the
80
plus
who
responded
returned
a
position
which
said
drivers
can
continue
to
work
if
they
have
fewer
than
12
points,
which
is
the
original
standard
Council
of
Flynn
suggests.
We
should
return
to
counselor
flame
questions.
D
These
significant
changes
in
the
recommendations
to
executive
board
and
shows
quite
clearly
how
licensing
committee
conscientiously
considered
the
outcome
of
the
consultation
Council
of
Flynn
suggests
that
insufficient
account
had
been
taken
of
the
opposition
of
the
trade
to
the
proposals,
which
was
greater
than
the
number
of
public
responses
received
in
support
of
the
policy.
It's
certainly
true
that
the
council
received
more
responses
from
the
trade
than
the
public
to
the
consultation.
As
paragraph
21
of
the
executive
board
report
shows
twice
as
many
license.
D
Holders
responded
to
the
consultation
as
members
of
the
public
yet
effective
and
meaningful.
Conscientious
consideration
of
the
outcome
of
the
consultation
would
require
the
council
to
give
appropriate
and
proportional
way
to
comments
from
the
public,
the
safety
of
which
are
the
principal
objective
of
the
policy,
as
well
as
considering
the
view
of
license
holders
against
it.
D
D
D
As
paragraph
5
and
19
of
the
executive
board
report
details,
the
consultation
in
Autumn
2021
was
deliberately
simple.
Do
you
agree
with
the
proposals
and,
if
not,
why
not?
We
feel
the
report
shows
that
the
council
has
repeatedly
communicated
and
clarified
the
way
a
proposal
would
work,
and
there
is
no
lack
of
clarity
from
the
council
in
the
reports
to
licensing
committee
and
executive
board.
D
The
council
has
worked
hard
to
harmonize
the
approach
to
mine
immortaling
convictions
across
the
region
and,
as
conscientiously
considered
the
outcome
of
the
consultation
which
has
led
to
the
development
of
a
revised
policy
with
a
correct
balance
for
leads
which
meets
the
requirements
of
the
government's
department
for
transports
statutory
guidance.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
councilor
Cooper.
Well,
don't
forget
to
do
that
before
we
go
into
other
questions.
I
just
think
it'd
be
helpful
for
officers
just
to
address
different
things
that
were
actually
addressed
to
councilor
Flynn,
which
he
wasn't
able
to
answer.
No
I'm
not
don't
mean
that
disparaging
me
at
all.
Accounts
left
Flynn
in
terms
of
what
other
authorities
are
doing
in
both
West
Yorkshire
and
and
maybe
of
course,
cities
would
be
interesting
as
well,
but
primarily
what
our
neighbors
doing,
including
Bradford,
which
has
been
been
raised.
Thank
you.
G
Thank
you
chair.
So
in
terms
of
minor
motoring
convictions,
the
five
other
authorities
in
the
West
Yorkshire
and
York
Group,
which
we
call
wimy
in
the
reports,
have
all
implemented
a
policy
of
refusing
applicants
at
seven
points
for
minor
motoring
convictions
and
refusing
to
renew
license
holders
at
seven
at
seven
or
more
points
and
I.
Think
the
policy
says,
consider
revoking
a
policy
at
seven
points,
so
they've
all
adopted
the
points
level
contained
in
the
Institute
of
Licensing
guidance.
G
Their
implementation
differs
from
The
Institute
of
Licensing
in
that
the
authorities
only
look
at
the
current
points
on
the
driving
license.
So
that's
pointing
the
last
three
years
and
would
only
refuse
a
license
for
three
years
and
not
for
five
years,
which
is
contained
in
the
Institute
of
Licensing
guidance.
So
we
have
to.
They
have
departed
from
the
Institute
of
Licensing
Guidance.
The
department
for
transport
statutory
guidance
does
not
continue
with
the
seven
point
indicated
by
The
Institute
of
Licensing.
G
So
this
is
where
there
is
a
there's,
a
definitely
a
degree
of
difference
between
local
authorities
when
I
contacted
the
other
local
authorities
in
West
Yorkshire
to
ask
about
the
implementation
of
the
suitability
policy
and
in
terms
of
how
they've
applied
it.
We
formally
reported
in
2020
and
I
think
it
might
be
useful
to
find
out
again
to
see
from
the
other
authorities
in
terms
of
how
many
licenses
they
have
refused
or
revoked.
G
My
understanding
is
it's
a
handful
per
Authority,
but
I'll
get
the
I
I
can
get
the
exact
figures
in
terms
of
what
the
implications
are.
I
also
specifically
asked
the
question:
if
they'd
had
any
of
their
decisions
to
revoke
a
license
overturned
at
magistrates
court-
and
the
answer
is
no
so
the
magistrates
Court
have
also
accepted
the
findings
of
those
authorities
in
terms
of
implementing
the
suitability
policy
applying
specifically
for
minor
motoring
convictions,
I
think
just
in
terms
of
suitability,
I'll
come
on
to
the
the
core
cities
in
terms
of
suitability.
G
I
think,
one
of
the
reasons
why
there
was
a
a
difference
between
the
different
authorities
in
West.
Yorkshire
was
exactly
as
Council
Flynn
says.
Leeds
was
already
adopting
many
things
that
were
in
the
suitability,
policy,
things
like
DBS
checks
and
so
on,
which
was
hard
to
work
for
other
authorities
to
do
and
I
think
that
may
be
where
the
West
Yorkshire
or
West
Yorkshire
New,
York
consultation
didn't
reveal
that.
G
So
it
was
something
where
again,
the
the
movement
was
less
so
in
leads
than
it
would
have
been
for
for
other
licensing
authorities
turn
into
the
core
cities.
I
I
looked
at
the
I
tried
to
find
the
suitability
policy
for
each
of
the
core
cities.
I
think
we've
got
about
11
in
the
in
the
UK
and
it's
probably
split
three
ways.
So
three
three
of
them
have
got
something
exactly
like
The
Institute
of
Licensing.
G
So
it's
six
points
or
seven
points,
and
then
three
have
got
something
that
is
is
left
left
to
its
own
devices,
which
might
be
seen
to
be
avoiding
disqualification,
and
then
three
have
got
something
in
the
in
the
in
the
middle
around
that
they've
got
eight
or
nine
points
or
I.
Think
one
of
them
has
got
exactly
as
Council
Flynn
said:
they've
got
a
it's
not
about
the
number
of
points,
but
it's
how
many
occasions
and
that
that
may
be
similar
to
where
authorities.
G
That
said,
we
use
a
red,
Amber,
green
status,
I
think,
importantly,
for
core
cities.
The
statutory
guidance
only
applies
to
England,
so
we've
got
a
number
of
course,
cities
that
aren't
in
England
and
therefore,
which
maybe
shouldn't
be
seem
to
be
holding
into
account
to
statutory
guidance
for
which
they
don't
really
have
to
have
have
regard
to
and
they'll
be
specific
provision
in
Wales,
Northern,
Ireland
and
Scotland.
For
those
authorities
that
helped
you.
A
A
A
Secondly,
I
think
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
there
has
been
some
tensions
between
the
trade
and
the
the
council.
We've
seen
that
we've
all
seen
that
at
various
demonstrations
and
I
guess
in
my
mind,
there's
a
question
about.
Can
we
put
more
clarity
in
in
the
policy
because,
when
you're
worried
about
discretion
is
when
there's
there's
a
lack
of
trust,
there's
I
do
think.
There's
a
there's,
a
question
around
I'm
gonna.
A
Ask
all
my
questions
in
one
go:
if
that's
okay,
so
I
do
think,
there's
a
question
around
around
the
consultation.
In
terms
of
where
are
we
do,
do
we
have
any
sort
of
feeling
for
where
the
trade
is
on
the
new
proposals?
So
the
consultation
was
early
on,
not
after
the
the
proposals
made
by
the
licensing
committee,
I
think
yeah,
so
I'll
start
with
those
please
thank
you.
D
D
It's
the
other
point
that
you
made
about
how
how
what
is
the
view
of
the
trade
since
the
licensing
committee
I
have
to
say
that
I've
spoken
to
quite
a
lot
of
the
trade
who
were
very
pleased
with
the
way
that
the
council
have
listened
to.
The
consultation
have
changed
their
options
that
were
put
forward
to
licensing
and
then
license.
D
It
listened
to
that
and
brought
about
their
recommendations
to
Executive
Board,
which
were
different
to
what
was
originally
and
consulted
upon,
and
the
reason
they
were
different
is
because
the
council,
the
licensing
committee,
have
listened
to
the
feedback
from
that
consultation
from
both
the
trade
and
members
of
the
public
and
adapted
that
policy.
Accordingly,
and
then,
indeed,
some
of
our
most
vehement
criticize
criticism
from
this
policy
actually
posted
on
Facebook
what
a
success
and
they
had
had
with
the
revision
of
this
policy.
D
G
Yeah,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
chair
yeah,
so
it's
a
question
you
asked:
could
we
put
more
clarity
in
the
policy
and
I
think
to
be
clear
in
terms
of
responding
from
the
last
round
of
consultation,
it
was
evident
that
some
people
either
misunderstood
or
had
been
told.
Something
would
would
be
applied
disproportionately
around
that
so
as
part
of
the
licensing
committee
report
and
then
part
of
the
and
then
for
the
executive
board
report,
we
provided
a
flowchart,
so
very
visually
demonstrate
exactly
what
would
happen
at
each
stage.
G
G
Once
we've
got
approval
on
the
the
the
version
of
the
the
policy
or
the
Criterion,
we
would
turn
those
into
cards
that
we
would
that
we
would
share
to
people
and
just
try
just
to
try
and
work
out
where
different
drivers
with
different
points
or
operators
or
associations
and
so
on,
trade
unions
and
so
on,
could
actually
discuss
with
their
members
and
say.
Look
let's
just
see
exactly
where
you
stand
on
here
and
see
what
would
happen
from
the
point
of
view
of
a
new
policy
going
forward.
So
something
now
where
I
think.
G
We've
definitely
responded
in
terms
of
the
consultation
to
explain
ourselves
better,
more
Clinton.
In
some
cases,
more
visually
I
do
think
it's
difficult
to
write
a
policy
that
caters
for
every
possible
eventuality
and
I.
Think
this
is
where
people
hear
the
word
discretion
or
every
case
on
its
own
merits.
The
reality
is
we
have
we,
the
council
probably
refuses
or
revokes,
not
more
than
30
or
35
licenses
a
year
in
terms
of
that
and
considers
for
revocation.
G
So
you
it's
actually
we're
actually
talking
about
a
very,
very
small
number
out
of
all
the
licenses
that
we
hold
and
therefore
there's
often
going
to
be
very
specific,
individual
reasons
that,
whatever
you
do
by
way
of
a
flow
chart
or
a
procedure
there
will
be.
There
will
be
some
occasions
where
you
can't
deal
with
every
eventuality,
the
one
that
I
draw
attention
to
would
be
around
the
points
level
and
particularly
where
points
come
on
to
or
come
off
a
license
and
I.
G
Think,
particularly
if
you
look
at
the
the
profile
of
the
number
of
points
that
drivers
have
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
that
position,
changes
every
week
in
terms
of
that,
so
it's
very
possible
for
drivers
to
accumulate
points
very
quickly,
but
also
those
points
accumulated
come
off
and
for
the
purposes
of
the
policy
that
we
would
look
at,
they
would
come
off
after
three
years,
not
five
years
as
per
The
Institute
of
licensings
guidance.
So
so,
yes,
we
I
think
we've
all.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
just
a
comment
and
then
another
question
to
the
comment.
I'd
say
is
that
the
people
I've
spoken
to
this
week,
taxi
driver
has
spoken
to
six
Hackney
Trade
union
reps
this
week,
amongst
other
people
and
five
out
of
the
six
of
those
were
very
negative
about
the
current
proposals.
A
Clearly,
that's
not
a
formal
survey,
but
it's
different
conversations
to
what
what
others
have
had.
That's
the
second
question,
the
question
I
have
is
I.
Think
for
me,
I
do
think
Article
13
talks
about
which
is
the
principles
of
decision
making
of
the
council.
One
of
the
decision
principles
is
natural,
Justice
and
and
I
guess
that's
a
layperson
view
of
is
this.
Is
this
a
fair
policy
and
I
guess
the
the
question?
A
We've
we've
touched
something
with
councilor
Flynn
but
I
think
it'd
be
useful
to
hear,
hear
your
perspective
on
this
around
other
other
drivers,
so
lead
city
council
has
some
influence
over
policies
across
the
city
in
in
this
area.
We've
got
specific
responsibility
around
licensing
rules
in
other
areas.
We've
got
responsibility
around
employment
rules
and
so
I
guess
there's
a
there's,
a
question
for
me
around
about
decision-making
process
on
on
the
natural
Justice
element.
Are
we
treating
different
parts
of
the
city
fairly
I
just
want
your
comments
on
that.
D
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Chad
and
I
know
it's
it's
a
point
that
has
been
raised,
my
councilor
Flynn
and
also
about
the
trade
first
of
all.
I
would
just
really
like
to
stay
that
this
is
a
policy
from
the
Lee
city
council
as
a
licensing
Authority,
and
we
actually
have
to
have
a
duty
as
a
licensing
authority
to
license
private
hire
and
taxi
drivers.
D
D
We
do
have
some
control
over
tax
improv
higher
licenses,
because
we're
a
licensing,
Authority
and
so
therefore-
and
in
doing
so
in
all
the
determination,
is
that
we
make
as
a
licensing
Authority.
It
is
always
within
regard
of
ensuring
Public
Safety
and
that
that
person
is
a
fit
and
proper
person
to
have
a
license
and
to
drive
a
taxi
on
a
private
hire
within
the
regulations.
J
J
If
I
was
to
play
a
devil's
advocate,
I
did
watch
back
the
executive
board
meeting
and
councilor
Carter
did
state
that,
when
in
2019
he
approved
or
voted
for
it
was
because
it
was
subject
to
a
consultation
that
then
took
place
in
2021
and
that
it
was
due
to
the
results
of
the
consultation.
Also
that
also
influenced
his
decision
so
that
it
was
actually
a
decision
that
was
taken
before
and
that
when
it
comes
to
cross-party
comments.
J
The
fact
is
that
this
calling
is
also
brought
forward
cross
party
and
not
just
by
one
party,
given
we've
mentioned
about
the
fact
that
other
authorities
in
West
Yorkshire
have
already
implemented
this.
It
doesn't
mean
at
the
same
time
that
Leeds
then
has
to
then
look
at
whether
it
then
follows
suit,
but
actually
whether
it
is
appropriate
to
bring
it
in
at
that
time.
So
can
I
ask
what
would
happen.
J
In
your
opinion,
if
we
were
to
take
this
ahead-
and
we
were
to
continue
with
the
current
policy
and
can
I
also
ask
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
conscientious
consideration
that
has
further
discussions
with
the
trade
taken
place
to
discuss
their
comments,
officially,
whether
it
not
be
on
Facebook
but
actually
officially
about
their
opinion
to
the
12-month
pilot.
Thank
you
chair.
G
I'll
respond
first
one
and
what
would
happen
if
we
didn't
Implement
a
revised
minor
motion
convictions
and
carried
on
with
the
with
the
Criterion
that
we
had
held
over
from
the
2014
convictions
poll?
We
would
apply
that
policy.
It
might
depend
on
the
the
decision
or
discussion
executive
board
about
what
further
research
or
consultation
or
engagement.
We
would
do
I
do
think.
G
One
of
the
challenges
for
us
is
we're
responding
in
2022
to
consultation
that
took
place
in
2021
part
of
the
delay,
for
that
was
checking
and
triangulating
with
285
authorities
in
England
to
see
what
to
see
what
they've
done
and
I
think
we
can.
We
can
always
check
and
see
what
other
authorities
have
done
as
well.
So,
in
terms
of
what
would
happen
if
we
didn't
implement
the
policy,
we'd
carry
on
applying
the
previous
policy
and
we
would
have
that
policy
of
refusing
people
with
a
very
high
level
of
points.
G
I.
Think
in
terms
of
the
the
follow-up
consultation
communication,
engagement,
I
think
it's
really
important
for
people
for
the
members
of
the
the
security
board
to
understand.
When
the
council
does
consultation
or
engagement,
we
consult
not
just
with
tax.
Taxing
and
private
hire
license
holders.
As
Council
Richie
said
we
consult
as
well.
We've
got
a
network
of
about
90,
plus
I
would
call
them
passenger
groups,
but
they're,
just
Community
groups
they're
different
groups
of
different
interests.
G
We
work
very
closely
with
older
people
to
say:
disabled
people,
access
committee,
women
and
girls,
help
and
so
on,
and
so
on.
So
for
us
particularly
I,
think
in
in
terms
of
that
feedback
and
that
consultation
and
communication
we
could,
we
can
continue
that
discussion
with
people
I
think
what
we've,
what
we've
had
to
deal
with
in
the
the
consultation
is
a
very
different
view
from
license
holders
and
from
members
of
the
public.
G
D
And
I
just
answer
that
please
chair,
so
just
to
say
that
the
the
whole
of
social
military
policy
out
from
the
minor
military
connections
element
of
it
was
already
implemented.
The
reason
that
we
didn't
implement
the
main
immortary
convictual
side
of
the
policy
was
because
of
the
the
the
feeling
from
the
trade
that
they
wanted
further
consultation
on
it,
and
that
is
why
we,
we
aren't
only
implemented
the
whole
policy
without
it
and
agreed
to
do
further
consultation
with
the
dread.
D
We
were
the
only
Authority
in
West
Yorkshire
that
did
that
the
rest
of
the
West
Yorkshire
councils
implemented
the
suitability
policy
in
full.
At
that
time,
we
have
continued
to
engage
and
consult
with
the
trade,
but
also,
as
Andrew
says,
with
the
members
of
the
public,
but
also
stakeholders
who
are,
we
need
to
engage
with
and
consult
in
terms
of
licensing
policy
and
so
I
think
that
as
a
council,
we
have
got
the
extra
mile.
D
We
have
listened
to
the
trade
and
to
other
public
responses
around
this,
and
this
has
resulted
in
the
policy
being
brought
forward.
So,
options
being
brought
forward
to
licensing
committee
who
made
a
recommendation
to
Executive
bard,
who
then
executive
board
agreed
with
on
the
21st
of
September
future.
J
Therefore
they
shouldn't
be
considered,
but
also
at
the
same
time,
I
think
that,
just
generally,
we
should
also
say
the
fact
that
we're
in
the
situation
where
we're
also
then
looking
at
how
others
shouldn't
then
be
considered
or
compared
when
it
comes
to
other
ranges
of
disciplines
and
employment
that
we're
looking
at
in
terms
of
other
areas
of
the
council
and
their
drivers.
That
they've
got
so
an
interesting
comparison.
A
J
Thank
you,
chair,
no
I
think
that
the
main
reason
was
just
simply
to
ask
to
add
the
context
to
the
current
market,
because
I
appreciate
that
what
one
of
the
officers
was
saying
was
the
fact
that,
should
we
Implement
that
not
implement
this
policy,
there
could
be
a
situation
where
drivers
that
were
previously
licensed
elsewhere
in
West
Yorkshire
could
then
come
to
Leeds.
So
the
question
was
what
is
the
current
situation,
but
if
we
don't
have
that
information
I'm
happy
to
receive
it
separately
and,
if
not
appropriate,
to
this
particular
item
yeah.
D
Yes,
just
just
on
a
modern
General
Point
in
response
to
councilor.
First,
that
I
do
think
that
you
raise
a
couple
of
issues
there.
That
may
well
be
outside
of
the
scope
or
what
we're
discussing
today,
but
actually
the
trade
have
have
been
engaged
in
talking
to
us
about
these
issues
and
also
other
issues
that
they
have,
that
they
want
us
to
talk
to
them.
About
and
I
can
just
reassure
scrutinibald
that
that
engagement.
B
B
But
around
that
fairness
aspect.
That
was
something
I
wanted
to
come
up
on.
Fairness
is
is
very
important
to
the
reasons
why
I
came
here
and
why
we
do
the
jobs
that
we
do
and
there's
a
couple
of
points
I
want
to
raise
on
that.
One
is
around
well
one
way,
I
think
it's
so
important
to
have
that
harmonization.
So
in
a
border
area
like
mine,
many
people
live
their
lives
on
either
side
of
the
border
and
many
people.
B
In
fact,
in
certain
communities
in
my
area
live
their
lives
on
the
Bradford
side
of
the
Border
live
their
entire
lives
there,
however,
their
house
happens
to
be
in
Leeds,
and
that
is
just
how
these
borders
have
come.
So
I
think
it
is
incredibly
important
that
we
do
harmonize
across
West.
Yorkshire
Bradford
have
obviously
implemented
a
policy
of
seven
points.
We've,
given
some
understanding
around
there
of
working
with
the
trade
and
and
doing
that,
training,
which
I
think
is,
is
really
welcome
to
try
and
improve
the
quality
of
standard
of
driving.
B
B
The
other
angle
of
the
fairness
that
I
think
was
the
point
that
was
raised
most
in
comments
that
came
from
Taxi
and
private
hire.
Drivers
was
around
how
it
doesn't
apply
the
same
policy
to
different
types
of
drivers.
Well,
in
a
way,
I
have
a
unique
perspective
there,
because
I'm
chair
of
the
bus
Alliance
at
West
Yorkshire
level.
So
a
key
part
of
that
is
improving
the
quality
and
the
standard
of
buses
within
the
West
Yorkshire
area.
B
It's
not
necessarily
for
this
decision,
as
as
you've
said
about
other
drivers
that
we
may
have
an
influence
on,
but
the
local
Authority,
as
not
the
transport
Authority,
doesn't
have
the
influence
on
those
drivers.
The
West
Yorkshire,
combined
Authority,
does
in
some
degrees,
but
the
private
bus
operators
have
the
most.
In
fact,
I
know
that
some
of
the
and
and
I
assume
most
of
the
private
operators
keep
to
the
same
standard,
which
is
six
points
or
fewer
for
a
new
bus
driver
in
the
city.
B
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
look
at
that
as
chair
of
the
West
Yorkshire
bus
Alliance
and
make
sure
that's
there,
because
I
think
the
fairness
angle
you
raise
is
one
that
that
we
do
understand.
However,
I
don't
feel
it.
It
necessarily
is
in
terms
of
whether
we
implement
this
policy.
It's
then
making
sure
that
if
this
policy
is
implemented
that
then
we
have
a
look
to
see
that
that
fairness
is
is
attributed
to
drivers
in
my
ward,
that
may
be
licensed
elsewhere,
but
also
other
drivers
that
are
in
that
position
now.
B
I
believe,
with
the
conversations
I've
had
with
bus
operators
previously
on
issues
similar
to
this,
that
they
do
have
incredibly
high
standards
in
this
area
and
are
looking
at
those
points.
But
that's
something
we'll
take
on
and
I
know
it's
not
necessarily
in
terms
of
this
inquiry,
but
based
on
the
contact
I've
had
from
Taxi
and
private
hire
drivers
in
the
last
week
or
so
so
that
has
been
a
really
key
issue
and
I
think
the
only
point
across
all
of
them
that
has
come
out.
A
D
You
I
just
think
that
it's
important
to
say
that
the
the
work
on
West
Yorkshire
harmonization-
it's
not
over,
it's
still
ongoing.
So,
although
we've
worked
together
on
on
this
policy
and
the
consultation,
the
original
consultation
happened.
We
continue
to
work
with
them
on
other
issues
around
the
trade
and
other
concerns
around
the
trade
to
do
with
private
and
taxi,
and
indeed
we
are
meeting
with
the
Russian
York
authorities
to
discuss.
What's
all
that,
we
can
come
together
and
continue
to
work
in
that
way.
D
I
think
the
point
that
you
made
about
the
fairness
around
drivers
absolutely
absolutely
but
I
think
the
councilor
Burke
made
the
most
relevant
comment
when
she
said
this
is
not
arrested
the
bottom.
Actually,
we
should
be
raising
all
standards
and
the
fact
that
we
have
influence
of
taxi
and
private
higher
licenses
and
that
we
need
to
implement
due
to
statutory
guidance
on
this.
That
actually
gives
us
an
opportunity
to
look
at
other
driving
standards,
not
only
within
the
authority
but
also
outside
the
authority.
So
thank
you
for
those
comments.
F
Thank
you
chair.
A
lot
of
good
contributions
from
colleagues.
I
won't
want
to
go
over
those
that
have
already
been
covered,
but
I
think
in
the
clarities.
We
mentioned
a
couple
of
times
so
far
during
this.
This
scrutiny,
board
and
I
think
it'd
be
really
helpful
for
myself
as
a
someone
who's
relatively
new
to
this
as
an
overall
issue.
F
If
perhaps
it
could
be
explained
for
clarity,
what
would
happen
to
drivers
at
seven,
eight
and
nine
plus
points
for
that
Clarity
and,
whilst
I
very
much
look
forward
to
councilor
Cooper's
new
career
as
a
jazz
singer,
it
might
be
advantageous
if
officer.
Colleagues
just
give
that
practical
explanation,
because
you're
most
welcome
to.
If
you
want.
G
G
G
We
would
so
that
would
be
new
new
offenses
new
endorsements
new
speeding
new
occasions.
If,
however,
people
have
failed
to
report
them
and
then
they
disclose
them,
we
would
have
a
question
mark
about
what's
the
date
of
the
offense
and
what's
the
debt,
what's
the
date
of
that,
that's
where
things
like
explaining
exactly
how
the
policy
would
would
be
complicated.
What
I
think
we
would
also
do
is.
G
We
would
then
have
a
plan
to
work
through
providing
the
driver
training
for
those
drivers
with
more
with
seven
or
more
points
and
two
and
to
request
them
to
attend
training
as
well
and
again.
That
would
be
something
that
we
would
discuss
with.
Counselor
Gibson
is
chair
of
Licensing
committee
and
Council
Cooper
executive
member
to
discuss
exactly
step
by
step.
G
G
C
The
the
issue
that
really
concerned
me
was
some
of
the
abuse
that
they
get
from.
Customers
that
are
often
drunk
and
sometimes
racist,
abuse
and
I
get
the
feeling
that
they
don't
get
investigated
properly
by
the
police.
So
I
hope
that
you'll
you'll
keep
that
on
the
agenda.
I'm
sure
the
drivers
will
as
well,
because
that
that
was
the
one
thing
that
really
stuck
out
to
me
that
these
public
servants
shouldn't
be
having
to
put
without
abuse
whatsoever.
C
I
find
it
abhorrent
so
on
to
the
calling
paper
again
recognizing
that
you
reopen
the
consultation
and
and
you
you
certainly
had
pressure
from
your
own
colleagues
to
do
that,
I
recall
being
being
one
of
them
actually
and
as
part
of
that,
you
obviously
made
the
recommend.
The
other
recommendations
came
forward
which
changed,
but
also
they've,
been
augmented
by
the
licensing
committee
without
recommendation
to
have
member
involvement.
C
Now,
that's
something
that
I've
put
in
my
responses.
That
particularly
assures
me
and
I
think
we've
already
seen.
Have
we
not
in
the
minor
defects
that
member
involvement
has
made
a
more
a
fairer
and
more
understanding
implementation,
implementation
of
that
policy,
so
I'll
get
into
my
question
is
what
will
happen
at
the
end
of
that
12
months?
Could
that
be
extended
if
it
worked?
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
councilor
Richard,
for
those
for
the
comment
and
the
question
and
I
can
assure
you
that
the
safeguarding
of
drivers
is
high
on
the
list
of
my
priorities
and
I.
Do
think
that
some
work
around
the
toxic
taxi
Charter
might
well
help
on
that,
and
it
is
something
that
gets
raised
with
me
by
by
members
of
the
trade
and
you're
quite
right.
D
There
should
not
have
to
put
up
with
some
of
the
abuse
and
behavior
that
they
do
have
to
put
with,
and
while
ever
I'm
exact
member
for
resources,
I'll
continue
to
work
on
that
Safe,
Garden
and
safety
of
our
drivers,
together
with
them
in
to
the
best
of
my
ability,
I
think
the
there's.
The
second
point
that
you
raised
around
sorry
remind
me:
Castle
Richie,
the.
D
Those
remembering
absolutely
so
so
far
with
the
the
minor
defects
and
their
members
engagement
around
that
has
absolutely
made
a
difference
in
the
the
trust
from
the
trade
to
the
authority
and-
and
they
have
told
us
in
those
engagement
sessions
that
things
have
improved
massively
because
of
that
because
of
the
member
involvement.
They
feel
that
they
it's
given
them
more
transparency
or
openness,
more
freedom
to
come
and
say
anything
around
what
might
be
occurring.
D
I
think
that
the
licensing
committee
were
inspired
to
take
on
that
option
and
for
12
months
to
run
it
as
a
pilot.
I
wouldn't
like
to
second
guess
what
might
occur
during
that
12
month
period.
So
therefore,
I
wouldn't
really
like
to
lay
down
well
I'd,
expect
this
to
happen
or
that
to
happen
after
12
months,
but
I
feel
really
reassured
and
that
with
councilor
Gibson
as
chair,
he
will.
You
know
ensure
that
that
panel
is
run
in
the
correct
Manner
and
give
forward
recommendations
for
the
committee
as
to
its
future.
A
H
I
think
the
only
point
to
add
councilor
Richie
from
the
point
that
councilor
Cooper
raised
is
that
the
provision
the
recommendation
from
the
licensing
committee
was
that
there
was
a
provision
that
the
licensing
committee
would
make
the
decision
itself.
Whether
or
not
it
would
continue
with
the
subcommittee
provision
after
12
months.
Okay.
So
that
reassures
you
that
it
would
be
a
decision
by
the
licensing
committee.
A
E
Thank
you,
chair
and
I
want
to
ask
a
very
direct
question
of
Council
Gibson,
Council
Cooper
and
the
officers.
Forgive
me,
I
can't
remember
everybody's
surname
and
the
question
I'm
going
to
ask
you
the
question
then
I'm
going
to
clarify
why
I'm
asking
it
if
that's
okay,
so
my
question
to
you
all
is:
have
you
operated
this
policy
free
of
bias?
E
Fair
and
given
everybody
concerned
the
chance
to
respond
and
I
know
you
we've
covered
a
lot
of
that
and
the
reason
I'm
asking
that
is
because
natural
justice
has
been
mentioned
today
and
that's
another
kind
of
throwaway
statement.
So
natural
Justice
means
that
people
are
not
penalized
without
validrees
in
our
grounds
that
they
have
it's
a
rule
against
bias.
Isn't
it
and
it's
it's
now
enshrounding
law.
So
it's
really
important.
It's
really
important
and
I'm,
not
making
accusations.
E
I
just
think
that
the
people
in
this
room
should
have
the
right
to
reply
to
that
and
the
trade
in
the
room
need
to
know.
It's
not
my
belief
that
that's
happened.
I
believe
that
everything
has
been
done
fairly
until
somebody
can
show
me
differently,
but
I
think
you
need
to
respond
to
what
I'm
asking
because
we've
mentioned
natural
Justice.
E
That's
not
my
decision.
I'm,
sorry
I'm
addressing
it
to
my
my
colleagues
in
the
room,
so
you
knowledge
of
the
case
the
right
to
respond,
procedural
fairness
and
if
you're
looking
article
6
at
European
convention,
it's
now
enshrined
in
La,
so
I
think
because
it's
been
mentioned
in
this
room,
you
should
have
the
right
to
reply
to
that.
So,
if
you
could
answer
my
original
question,
do
you
think
you've
operated
natural
Justice
and
and
perhaps
a
reason
why?
Thank
you.
D
The
the
theme
of
their
objections
were
gone
through
at
length
and,
given
you
know
the
hearing
that
they're
needed
to
have
a
licensing
committee
before
they
came
up
with
their
recommendations
or
executive,
oh
I,
think
as
an
authority
we've
gone
above
and
beyond
anything,
that's
being
laid
down
in
statutory
guidance
legislation
or
any
anything
else
may
be
written
down
around
it.
I
think
that
we
we
have
consulted
with
further
consulted.
F
On
this
particular
aspect
of
policy
we've
We've
consulted
We've,
listened
We've,
amended
we've
consulted
again:
we've
worked
with
the
trade
I
know
there
are
different
perspectives
and
opinions
on
the
policy,
and
we've
proposed
a
policy
which
we
think
is
proportionate
and
appropriate
in
the
context
of
what
we're
trying
to
do
as
the
regulator
of
taxi
and
private
hire.
Licensing
within
leads.
K
Council
Burke
I'm,
just
gonna
cop,
just
follow
up
on
the
the
points
that
have
been
made
by
the
witnesses
on
the
decision.
That
subjects
call
in
you're
all
aware,
as
Council
making
decision
makers
that
the
the
rule
of
law
and
the
position
of
bias
is
a
serious
one
and
you've
got
to
take
into
account
all
the
comments
that
have
been
made
by
accounts
for
Cooper
and
James
and
officers.
K
A
You
may
cancel
the
book
just
just
on
that.
I
just
just
want
to
be
clear
that
there's
not
a
decision
that
is
because
of
the
process,
because
Witnesses
weren't
invited
before
this
meeting
we
can't
have
extra
people.
Speaking
and
I
appreciate
your
desire
to
speak
okay.
Yes,
you
can
of
course,
respond.
Accountants.
Thank.
E
You
very
much
for
for
the
legal
clarification
it's
out.
I
would
completely
agree
and
the
reason
the
sole
reason
I
mentioned.
It
is
because
it
had
been
mentioned
in
this
meeting
today
and
it
creates
an
image.
Doesn't
it
and
people
go
away,
perhaps
with
misconceptions?
So
I
thought
once
we've
mentioned
natural
Justice,
it's
only
fair.
The
people
and
all
the
influence
is
perhaps
Target
have
the
right
to
respond,
but
thank
you
for
clarification
and
and
I
apologize.
If
I
give
the
wrong
impression
about
you
speaking.
J
F
H
Thank
you
for
that
question.
So,
as
I
mentioned
previously
with
my
previous
answer,
so
this
is
going
to
be
reviewed
as
part
of
the
licensing
committee
process,
so
it
will
be
reviewed
by
the
entire
licensing
committee,
which
is
obviously
cross-partians
part
of
that
discussion.
There
will
be
a
debate
as
to
the
efficacy
of
the
policy
and
then
we'll
make
a
decision
as
to
whether
or
not
to
carry
it
on,
extend
it
or
inhabit
as
a
habit
in
perpetuity
thanks.
A
J
You
chair
I,
just
want
to
ask
one
question
which
is
further
to
what
council
Gibson
Cassandra
said,
which
is
given
that
there
aren't
any
particular
metrics
that
we're
going
to
be
assessing
it
by
or
any
of
the
particular
views
to
whether
it's
going
to
continue
or
implement
the
policy
or
revoke
it.
Is
there
any
way
in
which
the
trade
will
particularly
be
able
to
be
part
of
that
discussion
to
ensure
that
they
can
give
an
opinion
on
that?
Or
could
you
elaborate
from
the
licensing
process?
Thank
you.
H
So
we
do
have
trade.
Thank
you,
councilor
Perth.
We
do
have
trade
meetings,
which
is
our
quasi-state
statutory
way
of
meeting
with
and
Consulting
with
the
trade,
and,
of
course
they
will
continue
to
be
ongoing
throughout
the
next
year.
Whilst
this
pilot
is
running
and
that's
that'll
be
the
formal
forum
for
the
trade
to
feedback
on
how
they
think
that
this
particular
pilot
is
going
that
will
be
for
any
licensing.
A
F
A
D
A
Okay,
I
can't
see
anyone
indicating
so
we're
gonna
draw
draw
a
line
under
questions,
so
the
next
stage
of
this
process
is
for
summing
up
and
given
the
time
I'm
gonna
give
five
minutes
to
both
councilor
Cooper.
If
you
can
talk
for
five
minutes,
councilor
Cooper,
but
you
can
hand
over
your
time
at
any
point
to
someone
else.
If
your
voice
gives
out
and
then
five
minutes
for
Council,
then
I'll
be
really
strict
on
the
five
minutes.
D
D
Think
that
we've
had
we've
heard
from
Council
of
Flynn
today
for
the
reasons
that
further
calling
I
think
that
that
I
and
officers
have
responded
in
full
and
in
detail
as
to
why
the
policy
that
we
believe
should
be
implemented
and
released
by
scrutiny.
Mart
for
implementation
today,
I
will
continue
to
work
with
the
trade
and
meeting
them
engaging
with
them
and
to
ensure
that
this
policy
and
others
continue
to
be
implemented
in
a
fair
and
reasonable.
D
A
I
What
I'm
going
to
say
is
that
the
consultation
came
out
against
this
proposal
and
if
more
people
were
against
it
in
The
Proposal
more
people
were
against
the
proposal.
There
were
four
is
why
we're
proceeding
with
it?
What
was
the
point
of
the
consultation,
the
executive
board
in
2019
passed
this
and
it
went
out
again
for
consultation
because
of
issues
with
the
trade
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
I
Going
back
to
what
I
said
at
the
very
start
of
this,
we've
covered
a
wide
range
of
sort
of
issues,
but
this
meeting
and
the
executive
board
meeting
was
about
one
item:
the
minor
motoring
convictions.
That's
all
it
was
about,
and
that's
all
we're
discussing
here
today
and
as
I
think
I've
said
that
at
length
the
current
policy
has
been
in
place
for
almost
nine
years.
It's
worked
extremely
well.
I
I
A
Yes,
thank
you
very
much
for
that.
That's
within
time
as
well.
So
that's
very
positive
I'd
also
like
to
just
Echo
the
thanks
to
everyone.
Who's
coming
today.
I
know
it's
a
short
notice.
Meeting
we
will
have
to
me
include
that
to
rearrange
another
meeting
to
make
it
here
because
of
the
short
notice,
and
also
thank
you
to
the
trade
for
coming
to
listen
to
the
debate.
A
I
do
appreciate
that.
So
what
we're
going
to
do
now
is
move
to
the
vote
and,
as
you
know,
you've
got
two
well
I
guess:
you've
got
three
options.
You've
got
two
option,
one,
which
is
the
release
of
the
decision
for
implementation
option
two,
which
is
to
recommend
the
decision,
be
reconsidered
and
I
guess.
The
other
option
you
have
is
to
abstain.
B
A
A
Did
you
did
you
want
to
ask
a
question
so
so,
as
I
as
I
I
thought,
I
said
option
one
is
to
release
the
decision
for
implementation,
which
is
what
it
says
on
tin
option.
Two
is
recommend
that
decision
be
reconsidered,
which
is
what
it
says
on
the
tin.
If
we
choose
chose
option,
two
we'd
then
have
to
agree
a
statement
about
our
reasons.
Why
so
that
would
be
another
process,
but
right
now
or
you
can
abstains
right
now,
option
one
two
release
option:
two:
to
recommend
the
decisions
reconsidered.
A
A
A
A
I
am
optimistic
from
councilor
Cooper's
comments
today
that
she
will
keep
keep
the
consultations
open
and
I
appreciate
those
comments
very
much
and
in
terms
it's
the
other
thing
in
terms
of
some
of
the
comments
about
the
work
program
that's
been
made
today.
What
we'll
do
is
we'll
talk
about
that
in
our
next
sort
of
schedule.
Meeting
under
the
usual
work
items
schedule
so
again,
thank
you.
Everyone
for
coming
thanks
for
your
time
and
thank
you
for
giving
that
your
time
and
energy.