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From YouTube: Leeds city council - Scrutiny Board Strategy and Resources Consultative Meeting - 19th July 2021
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A
Okay,
I
think
we're
live
okay
good
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
today's
meeting,
I'm
council
andrew
scopes
and
I'm
the
chair
of
the
strategy
and
resources
scrutiny
board.
Just
for
clarity,
I
need
to
tell
you
that
this
is
technically
a
consultative
meeting,
because
we're
not
meeting
in
person
which
means
that
any
decisions
would
need
to
be
ratified
at
the
next
formal
meeting.
A
Just
for
those
who
are
watching
who
are
not
members,
all
the
papers
are
on
line.
If
you
just
search
for
lead
city,
council
scrutiny,
board
meetings,
you'll
be
able
to
find
the
papers
relatively
easily,
except
for
one
small
confidential
appendix
which
is
confidential
for
commercial
reasons,
but
members
have
had
sight
of
that.
So
with
that,
I'd
like
to
invite
members
to
introduce
themselves
because
we're
on
zuma
read
out
your
name
and
then
ask
you
to
introduce
yourself
so,
starting
with
councillor
anderson.
A
Thank
you
very
much
councillor
burke,
council
sharon,
berg
middleton
park
ward.
Any
new
counsellor
welcome
to
the
board
councillor
carlill.
G
Morning,
everybody
councillor
hutchinson
molly
north.
A
Ward
councillor
siri.
A
J
Morning,
everyone
rob
clayton
principal
screening
advisor
to
the
board.
A
J
A
You
very
much
and
offices
other
officers
who
are
here
for
paper.
Can
you
introduce
yourselves
at
the
start
of
your
papers?
So
then
it's
fresh
in
our
mind.
If
that's
okay?
A
A
J
Thank
you,
council
scopes.
Yes,
so
there's
a
few
items
just
to
to
update
board
members
on
at
the
last
meeting.
It
was
quite
extensive
discussion
of
a
number
of
issues
regarding
the
workforce,
it
being
representative
of
of
the
wider
city,
so
that
is
a
piece
of
work.
That's
going
to
come
back
in
september,
so
just
to
update
members
on
that
and
to
ensure
that
they
know
it's
coming
back
and
that
will
be
part
of
a
substantive
report.
J
Our
september
meeting,
in
addition
to
that,
there
was
and
there's
an
ongoing
issue
regarding
a
letter
concerning
long-term
adult
social
care
funding
with
it
with
as
council,
further
indicate
yeah.
E
Thank
you,
chair
and
sorry
to
intervene.
Rob
I
understand
that
the
letter
was
sent
in
the
last
week
by
councillor
robinson
has
agreed.
He
would
do
for
the
board.
J
Rob
yeah,
in
addition
to
the
the
workforce
stuff
that
I've
mentioned,
there's
also
a
few
items.
I
am
chasing
up
in
terms
of
issues
that
were
raised
and
information
being
saw,
and
I
will
get
that
to
the
board
as
soon
as
possible,
in
particular
with
talk
of
mental
health
issues
and
a
breakdown
of
sickness
during
in
the
period
of
the
pandemic.
J
That's
information
that
I'm
chasing
and
there's
also
something
relating
to
ell,
eli
and
staff
in
desk
based
roles,
which
I
will
be
getting
out
to
members
this
week,
hopefully
so
just
to
cover
those
two
issues
off.
Thank
you.
Chad,.
A
A
I
can't
see
anyone
indicating
we'll
move
on
then
to
right
agenda
item
three.
The
report
is
from
rob,
but
it's
probably
victoria's
substantive
item,
so
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
speak.
First
rob.
J
Just
briefly,
thank
you,
chair,
yeah
and
yeah
victoria
is
here
to
as
the
to
provide
more
expertise
than
I
could
on
these
matters
and
but
the
it's
introducing
the
budget
service
reviews
and
financial
challenges,
an
issue
for
for
the
board
this
year.
J
So
there's
a
number
of
appendices
included,
one
with
the
out
turn
from
the
previous
financial
year
and
an
appendices
that
has
service
reviews
and
the
details
linked
to
them
and
also
the
financial
health
report
that
is
going
to
executive
board
later
this
week,
so
that
those
are
substantive
appendices.
The
the
angle
from
scrutiny
is
around
robustness
and
long-term
sustainability
of
the
budget,
and
that's
really
what
the
report
from
for
me
does
do,
but
any
questions
I
think,
should
probably
go
to
to
victoria.
Thank
you.
Chad,.
L
Thank
you,
chair
and
victoria
bradshaw,
I'm
the
chief
finance
officer
for
the
council,
and
I
was
going
to
quickly
just
go
through
the
main
points
of
the
reports.
If
that,
please
do
so.
As
robert
said,
these
three
reports
for
scrutiny
to
look
at
today.
First
is
the
financial
outcome
report
and
that's
on
page
15
of
your
pack.
L
So
this
relates
to
the
financial
year
2021,
which
we
have
now
closed,
and
the
financial
statements
have
just
been
finalized
at
the
moment
for
external
audits
and
corporate
governments
will
consider
those
this
week,
so
we
reported
an
underspend
of
1.134
million,
which
is
an
improved
position
on
where
we
were
forecasting
throughout
the
year.
L
The
improved
position
is
across
all
directorates
and
reflects
that
there
has
been
a
slight.
There
has
been
an
improvement
across
those
areas
and
they
are
detailed
in
the
report.
But
the
main
things
that
we
want
to
consider
is
around
some
improvements
in
the
forecasting
on
the
cost
of
running
the
services,
some
reductions
in
ppe
and
the
contributions
that
we've
received
from
from
health,
etc.
L
It
is
detailed
in
the
report,
but
what
I
would
say
is
that
2021
was
an
unprecedented
year
for
a
number
of
areas,
but
especially
it
was
very
difficult
to
forecast
around
the
finances
and
I
think
we're
seeing
that
in
the
projections
that
are
going
forward
for
20
for
this
financial
year,
21
22,
which
I'll
I'll
go
on
into
in
a
moment.
L
The
other
item
that
covered
that
contributed
to
the
improved
position
was
around.
We
received
a
number
of
capital
receipts
in
this
in
last
financial
year,
which
meant
that
we
could
increase
the
amount
of
those
that
we
used
against
the
budget,
which
meant
that
the
reliance
on
the
miriam
house
reserve
wasn't
required.
L
We'd
also
was
enabled
some
government
funding
around
covid
pressures,
which
we've
budgeted
for
in
the
forecast
that
we've
projected
and
we've
been
able
now
to
to
move
that
base
budget.
That
we'd
set
aside
into
a
strategic
contingency
reserve
which
enables
us
now
that
we're
going.
L
We
have
got
a
challenging
budget
for
the
next
three
years,
based
on
the
information
we've
got
at
the
moment,
and
that
will
that
strategic
contingency
reserve
will
enable
us
to
be
able
to
identify
savings
over
that
three
years
and
buy
us
some
time
to
make
sure
that
we
can
implement
those
savings
and
in
a
timely
fashion,
rather
than
having
to
make
one
year
very
quick
decisions.
So
I
think
those
are
the
main
points
from
that
financial
out
turn
position.
L
Do
you
want
me
to
pause
there
counselor
scopes
and
take
or
jump
to
carry
on
with
the
other
two
and
then
we'll
take
them
in
total?
Okay.
So
the
next
report
is
on
the
action
plans
for
21
22,
which
start
on
page
71,
and
these
were
the
savings
that
were
put
forward
as
part
of
the
budget
setting
process
and
came
to
scrutiny
in
september
october
and
november,
and
then
once
they'd
gone
through
scrutiny,
gone
back
to
executive
board.
L
They
went
through
full
council
and
for
approval,
and
this
is
where
we
are
now
on
implementing
those
savings
proposals.
At
the
moment,
we
are
forecasting
that
they're
on
target
to
be
achieved
and
that
and
we'll
be
bringing
those
regularly
to
scrutiny
to
to
monitor.
L
Excuse
me,
the
final
report:
that's
in
your
supplementary
papers,
which
is
on
in
appendix
in
your
supplementary
papers,
which
is
classed
as
appendix
3,
is
to
do
with
the
current
financial
health
monitoring
report,
which
is
at
may.
So
this
is
just
the
first
two
months
of
the
year
and
obviously
it's
very
very
early,
and
so
at
the
moment.
L
Okay,
thank
you
so
at
the
moment
we're
forecasting
small
overspend.
Sorry,
I
just
lost
it
actually.
So,
on
the
it's
on
a
net
revenue
budget,
435
thousand
435
million.
L
And
we're
forecasting
at
the
moment
sorry
an
overspend
of
on
the
due
to
codeword
pressures
of
18.4
million,
and
but
we
are
funding
that,
through
some
funding
that
we
got
from
central
government
on
the
to
do
with
the
kobe
reserve,
24.6
million.
So
that
means
that
we
would
have
a
balance
of
nine
million
on
the
on
the
on
the
kobe
precious
reserve.
L
However,
what
I
would
say
is
that
we're
doing
further
forecasting
at
the
moment-
and
there
are
further
pressures
coming
through
and
that
will
be
reported
to
executive
board
in
september
and
therefore
it
is
very
early
in
the
day
for
us
to
understand
what
actually
is
happening
around
the
ongoing
impact
of
covet,
especially
as
the
business
rates
release,
reduced
furlough
stuff,
come
off,
furlough
and
and
the
universal
credit.
L
So
each
of
the
directorates
within
the
report
have
provided
their
latest
forecast
of
where
we
are
and
and
as
we
can
see
in
children's
and
families,
there
has
been
an
increase
in
children.
Looked
after
and
non-children
looked
after
placements,
inactive
leads
were
actually
forecasting
losses
of
income
and
also
around
our
city
centre,
sales
rooms,
markets
and
advertising
in
housing.
L
We're
looking
at
losses
from
car
parking
income
and
enforcement
and
some
from
some
of
the
visitor
attractions
and
then
also
from
resources
service
we're
looking
at
reductions
in
income
from
court
fees
because
obviously
was
going
to
cut
over
council
tax,
etc.
There
were
pressures
there
and
also
reductions
in
meals
and
through
lbs.
L
However,
the
housing
revenue
count
is
forecasting
a
balanced
position
at
this
point
and
the
collection
fund
is
forecasting
lower
than
we
had
in
in
month,
or
two
collection
rates
in
the
1920
we've
not
compared
it
to
2021,
because
obviously,
as
I've
said,
that
was
an
unprecedented
year,
but
we
do
feel
that's
the
ongoing
impact
of
covert.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Do
members
any
members
have
any
questions
if
you
just
raise
your
hand
with
directions,
button
that'd
be
good
I'll
bring
in
council
hesswood
first
place.
F
Hi
victoria,
thanks
for
the
the
the
run
through,
I
was
reading
the
the
report
and
it
does
where
it
talks
about
children
looked
after
non-children
looked
after
and
obviously
it
does.
It
does
cover
children
who
are
well
young
people
should
I
say
who
are
18,
who
are
you
know
and
the
the
difficulties
of
them
being
able
to
to
move
on
and
because
of
the
current
situation
over
the
last
18
months,
and
obviously
the
pressure
that
that's
applying
on
budgets.
F
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
any
obviously
we've
had
a
third
level
of
government
funding
to
offset
some
of
the
issues
that
covered
have
thrown
up,
and
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
anything
under
that
which
could
which
could
help
alleviate
that
that
pressure,
because,
obviously,
in
regular
circumstances,
those
young
people
would
have
been
able
to
you
know,
would
have
been
able
to
to
move
to
to
independent
living
or
supported
living.
F
And
I
just
wonder
if
there's
any
any
any
government
funding
to
alleviate
that
pressure,
which
is
obviously
a
pressure
which
has
arisen
because
of
coving.
L
However,
within
that
24.6
million
is
funding
for
all
the
directorates,
who
are
experiencing
kobe
pressures,
and
at
the
moment
it
is
18.4
million
what
we
are
doing
in
regard
to
the
looked
after
children
who
are
in
the
semi-independent
part
of
the
process,
the
system
we
are
looking
at,
what's
what's
preventing
those
those
children
moving
into
more
permanent
accommodation,
etc,
and
some
of
that
surround
us
having
the
turnover
of
the
flats
becoming
available.
L
So
we're
looking
at
how
we
can
manage
that
to
get
that
to
flow
through
better,
so
that
those
children
can
move
into
more
permanent
residents,
which
is
better
for
them
as
well.
And
so
that's
where
it's
ongoing.
But
we
have
got
that
fund
but
the
to
be
honest.
The
way
that
forecasts
are
going
that
that
fund
is
virtually
forecast
to
be
spent,
so
we
will
be
looking
to
government
for
further
funding
for
the
rest
of
the
year.
Thank
you.
F
No,
no
and
thank
you
for
the
the
explanation
it's
obviously
out.
The
funding
is
obviously
all
wrapped
up
into
the
one.
You
know
what
one
payment
that
we've
discussed
you
know
for
all
directors.
So
thank
you
for
that
explanation
and
then
yeah
abs.
Absolutely,
as
you
say,
we
need
to
go
back
to
government
and
look
at
funding
for
the
the
pressures
that
are
impacting,
as
you
know,
past
the
first
quarter
of
the
year.
Definitely
thank
you.
Victoria.
B
It's
in
respect
of
appendix
2,
which
sets
out
the
various
proposals
etc.
Now
one
of
the
issues
that
I
had
at
my
scrutiny
board
was
fine,
but
it
doesn't
actually
set
out
the
options
at
the
top
line.
It
says
options
considered
and
justification
for
proposal
now.
I'll
give
you
one
example:
on
page
83
reduce
contribution
to
lead
city
council,
credit
union
options
considered
reduction,
reflects
savings
requirement
of
the
council.
Well,
that's
hardly
an
option.
B
It's
stating
the
obvious,
and
it
doesn't
I
mean
the
amount
is
63
000
pounds.
So
would
it
would
it
not
be
an
idea
to
set
out
a
number
of
options
so
that
scrutiny
can
look
at
that
and
decide
which
is
pro
and
give
their
views
and
then
leave
the
exec
board
to
make
the
final
decision?
Would
it
not
be
an
idea
so
that
we
can
see
and
then,
when
it
says,
risks
possible
impact
on
service
delivery
of
credit
union?
Well,
what
are
the
possible
impacts
on
services?
L
Sorry,
councillor
anderson,
I
do
apologize.
That
heading
is
in
amazing,
is
incorrect.
It
should
just
be
the
proposal
more
detail
on
the
actual
saving.
I
think
the
proposal
and
the
options
considered
needs
to
change,
because
actually
these
were
approved
at
full
council
in
february
21.
they're,
not
options
anymore
they've
been
approved
to
go
forward.
They
came
through
scrutiny
in
1420.
L
L
A
You
thank
you
thanks,
council
anderson
and
you
make
a
fair
point
that
the
the
impact,
if
it's
going
to
be
detrimental,
is
different
to
if
it's
going
to
be
catastrophic,
and
so
that's
an
important
thing
to
differentiate
between.
A
I
can't
see
anyone
else
indicating
at
the
moment,
so
I
just
asked
a
couple
of
questions
victoria.
So
just
on
page
17,
the
auditors
are
due
to
look
at
our
accounts
on
by
the
end
of
august.
A
L
The
external
auditor
on
with
their
audit,
but
they
have
reported
to
our
corporate
governance
and
audit
committee
that
and
they
won't
be
completing
the
audit
for
september
and
it
will
be
more
likely
to
be
the
end
of
november,
which
is
the
date
that
they're
working
towards
and
they
have
got
the
they
have
got
identified.
Resources
to
complete
that
order.
But
because
I've
covered
last
year,
everything's
got
pushed
on
and
that
unfortunately
had
a
detrimental
impact
on
on
when
the
audit
will
be
completed.
A
D
L
Yeah
I'll
I'll
have
to
come
back
to
you
with
that
detail.
Counselor
chapman
and
I
haven't
got
that
at
the
moment
and
but
yes
I'll
find
out
where
the
vacancies
are
and
then
what
the
impact
is.
Thank
you.
A
L
Yes,
I
think,
that's
the
very
fair
conclusion:
we've
got
and
it's
very
early
in
the
month
in
the
year
at
the
moment,
but
from
what
we're
seeing
there
are
significant
pressures
coming
through
still
on
the
basis
of
covid
and
the
ongoing
implications
of
that
we've
also
got
challenges
for
next
year,
which
will
obviously
come
to
this
scrutiny
committee
around
the
medium-term
financial
strategy
and
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
around
becoming
more
resilient
and
sustainable
for
future.
Thank
you.
A
J
E
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
I
just
wanted
to
say
in
terms
of
the
role
of
scrutiny
that
I
do
think
it
is
concerning
the
way
in
which
messaging
has
been
put
out
by
the
administration
in
recent
week
about
the
kovy
grant.
E
It
has
become
apparent
throughout
the
curve
pandemic
that
children
and
young
people
living
in
poverty
are
not
a
priority
for
this
government.
Now,
whatever
the
politics
of
that
and
what
has
happened
in
the
past.
That
is
simply
not
true
and
there's
a
role
for
scrutiny.
I
think
we
need
to
be
careful
in
terms
of
the
words
that
this
council
administration
is
using
in
the
future,
but
I
don't
want
to
get
into
a
political
debate
about
that.
A
I
think
I'll
take
that
as
a
comment
rather
than
a
specific
question.
I
would
I
would
say,
though,
councillor
firth.
I
find
that
difficult
to
stomach
when
councillor
carter
at
the
last
full
council
meeting
said
this
council
was
up
to
its
neck
and
money
and
we've
just
had
the
chief
financial
officer
here
saying
the
financial
position
is
challenging,
so
I
think
maybe
we
should
try
and
keep
politics
out
of
the
points.
The
points
going
out
of
this
committee
and
and
carry
on
with
our
business
of
scrutiny,
councillor
firth.
E
Thank
you
now.
I
fully
appreciate
your
point
there
and
I'm
trying
not
to
make
a
political
point.
I'm
just
saying
that
the
scrutiny
has
a
role
to
establish
the
facts
and
the
context
in
which
we
work
and
in
terms
of
actually
holding
the
account.
The
the
essence
of
scrutiny
is
to
hold
the
administration
to
account
on
what
it
says
and
what
it
does
and
therefore,
as
a
result,
I
thought
it
was
a
point
that
needed
raising,
but
take
your
point
chair.
Thank
you
very
much.
E
A
I
think
we
will
move
move
on
to
the
next
agenda
item
at
that
point,
so
I
think
go
on
to
page
89
of
the
packs.
This
is
about
future
work
enrollment
at
leeds
city
council.
I
think
those
new
members
and
substitute
members
we've
discussed
this
in
quite
quite
some
detail
at
a
number
of
meetings.
A
The
idea
of
this
is
to
have
a
interim
sort
of
position
report
about
some
of
our
recommendations.
So
offices
know
where
we
stand
just
to
be
clear.
This
isn't
saying
we
won't
come
back
to
it
and
I
I
do
think
this
is
a
really
live
issue,
and
so
I
think
we
will
keep
coming
back
to
to
this
particular
item
as
we
settled
into
the
new
normal
as
it
were.
How
do
we
work
in
the
future?
How
do
we
work
as
a
council?
How
do
we
work
with
our
partners
etc?
A
And
I
also
think
another
key
element
of
this
whole
agile
working
piece
of
work
is
it's
around
the
the
computer
and
software
infrastructure
that
we
have
and,
and
whilst
it's
linked,
is
I'm
trying
to
differentiate
it
a
little
bit.
So
we
can
make
some
some
formal
recommendations,
so
hopefully
of
that
context
I'll
just
hand
over
to
rob
just
to
introduce
the
report.
J
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
chair
yeah.
You
covered
a
fair
bit
there,
but
indeed
in
the
interest
of
that
pre-decision
scrutiny
this.
This
has
been
brought
forward
for
for
comment
from
the
from
the
board
members
and
and
agreement.
Ultimately,
there's
a
slight
wrinkle,
and
then
it's.
This
is
a
consultative
meeting,
so
it
will
unfortunately,
to
come
back
in
september
for
that
formal
sign
off.
Regrettably,
so
it
will
be
returning,
but
this
this.
The
aim
of
this
is
really
is
to
get
views
of
the
board
members
and
that
would
then
feed
into
that
september
item.
J
Then
we
can
finalize
that
and
and
put
it
through
the
normal
process
and
get
comments
from
the
director
and
the
directorate
yeah.
Thank
you.
Jeff.
A
E
Thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
chance
to
speak
again.
I
think
the
the
only
the
concern
I
just
want
to
raise
again,
as
I
raised
at
the
previous
meeting
I
think
colleagues
did
as
well
is.
E
We
need
to
have
a
flexible
approach,
but
that
is
30
percent,
which
I
think
personally.
We
need
to
make
sure
and
restate
constantly
as
a
board
that
we
are
looking
to
the
future
rather
than
and
actually
the
needs
of
everybody
to
make
sure
that
we
are
ultimately
maintaining
the
mental
health
and
improving
the
work
of
other
people
on
the
on
the
on
the
council,
and
I
just
wanted
to
confirm
that,
in
terms
of
where
we
were
when
we've
last
had
a
meeting.
E
Are
there
any
further
comments
that
step
that
council
officers
can
provide
to
measures
that
have
been
put
in
place
to
improve
the
ability
of
those,
particularly
who
are
at
the
earliest
stages
of
their
career
in
the
council,
to
get
more
support
and
also
progress,
as
everyone
should
be
able
to
within
the
council?
Thank.
A
You
chair
thanks
councillor
firfn.
I
certainly
echo
the
the
comments
around
the
most
junior
staff
and
that's
something
that
rob
will
attest
to
me
bring
an
honor
to
him
about
since
I've
become
chair
of
this,
this
scrutiny
board
and
I
feel
like
they're,
the
ones
that
need
the
most
or
benefit
most
from
the
face-to-face
soft
contacts.
A
H
Neil
neil
evans,
director
of
resources-
so
I
think,
alex
is
on
from
hr
as
well,
but
I
mean
throughout
this.
We
by
taking
these
surveys,
we've
been
encouraging
people
to
get
in
contact
with
us
if
they
are
struggling
at
home
and
then
through
a
blend
of
hr
directly
doing
calls
actually,
where
certain
services
have
been
struggling
for
capacity
themselves.
H
We've
been
offering
that
support
through
through
hr,
but
also
ident,
also
making
sure
that
managers
are
made
aware
of
staff
who
are
struggling
so
that
they
are
getting
some
personal
support
and
counselling,
and
you
know,
with
with
the
return
to
work
for
people
who've
been
working
from
home
over
the
next
couple
of
months.
H
We
are,
I
am
very
keen
and
we've
been
putting
out
a
message
across
all
managers
to
make
sure
that
actually,
there
is
a
a
personal
one-to-one
meeting
where
you
can
still
sort
of
try
to
get
underneath
the
surface
of
whether
people
have
been
experiencing
problems
at
home,
where
they've
got
issues
about
coming
back
to
the
office,
so
that
we
can
take
all
those
things
into
account,
and
so
what
we'll
probably
try
and
you?
H
E
No
thank
you
very
much
and
I
think,
as
you
say
chair,
I
think
the
biggest
thing
for
that
we
all
care
about
is
actually
making
sure
that
we
do
get
back
or
adapted
to
the
new
normal,
but
ultimately
the
same
time
as
well
as
looking
at
the
progress
of
those
individuals
who've
just
joined
us
is
also
making
sure
that
the
progress
of
the
council
in
serving
its
residents,
who
obviously
fund
the
work
that
we
do
is
actually
continued,
and
I'm
really
glad
to
see
that
that
statement
about
delivery
is
also
mentioned
in
there
as
well.
A
A
Sorry,
councillor
carliel,
oh
it's
on
mute.
I
apologize.
C
Thanks
cher,
I
had
two
points.
One
actually
is
is
quite
similar
to
council
of
first
point.
Certainly
what
we've
raised
quite
a
lot
is:
is
those
newer
members
of
staff
or
people
more
junior
in
their
roles,
just
starting
a
new
role,
etc,
but
also
we've
mentioned
those
on
apprenticeships
as
well,
and
obviously
the
council
has.
It's
got
some
really
positive
plans
and
promises
to
apprentices
in
the
city,
and
I
just
wonder
whether
actually
the
statement
should
make
specific
mention
to
those
in
training,
because
we've
got
a
lot.
C
We
can
do
within
the
council
around
around
bringing
apprentices
in
to
help
us
with
with
services,
but
also
more
wider
across
the
city
and
them
coming
in,
and
I
know
we
mentioned
support
for
all
staff,
but
I'm
I'm
considering
whether
something
around
those
staff
in
training
or
or
in
apprenticeships
with
us
should
a
warrant
specific
mention
in
in
the
statement
and
the
second
one
I
was
going
to
raise
is
more.
C
It
might
be
a
question
for
rob
actually,
because,
obviously
our
our
scrutiny
board
has
a
set
remit
to
look
at
when
we're
looking
at
the
more
flexible
working
policy.
A
number
of
members
have
raised
the
issue
around
where
that
puts
us
in
terms
of
climate
impact.
As
a
council,
you
know
if
staff
are
working
from
home.
C
Obviously
they're
still
counted
as
as
our
impact
as
the
council,
and
is
it
a
positive
impact
if
they're
not
getting
on
transport
into
the
city,
or
is
it
in
fact
that
that
their
houses
are
less
sustainable
and
in
fact
they
may
end
up
using
more
power
than
previous
etc?
And
that's
a
question
we've
had
now.
Obviously
that
might
step
outside
this
scrutiny
board's
remit.
However,
it's
in
terms
of
our
our
staff
and
our
and
our
particular
strategy.
J
Yeah
thanks
councillor
cal
illinois,
I
think
of
it.
It's
a
it's
a
valid
comment
and
it
is
an
issue
linked
to
this,
the
balance
between
reduced
transport
and
then
obviously,
people
at
home
are
using
energy
as
well,
but
in
terms
of
remit,
I
think
you've
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
to
some
extent
in
that
it
that,
specifically,
that
element
would
sit
outside
of
our
work
and
would
be
for
the
environment,
housing
communities
committed
to
to
pick
up
in
terms
of
their
areas
of
responsibility.
J
It
has
come
up
in
discussion,
though
I
take
that
point,
and
the
statement
could
indeed
cover
that
angle.
But
if
there
were
to
be
substantive
work,
I
think
it
would
need
to
move
on
to
the
other.
Other
screening
board
that
I've
mentioned.
H
Yeah
I
mean
just
as
for
councillor:
kyle's
benefit,
an
assessment
has
been
made
and
the
overall
net
effect
was
actually
beneficial
on
carbon
actually
of
a
great
working
from
home.
Obviously
it
depends
on
how
far
people
are
traveling
and
how
generous
people
are
with
their
central
heating,
but
overall
the
net,
the
their
impact
was
was
beneficial
and
polly
cook
and
her
team
have
done
some
work
on
that.
If
you'd
like
to
see
that.
A
Thank
you.
It
might
be
worth
sending
it
to
members
outside
of
the
meeting
if,
if
you've
got
something
you
can
share
easily
now.
B
Thank
you,
chair,
mine
is
more
or
less
a
a
comment
really,
but
I
think
neil
did
touch
on
it.
It's
regarding
the
thirty
percent
or
currently
on
epic.
You
know
sometime,
we
we
think
it's
great
being
at
home
all
the
time
and
the
novelty
can
easily
soon
wear
off
after
a
while.
B
So
I'm
glad
when
neil
said
that
they'll
be
having
their
one-to-one,
because
we
all
think
it's
great
being
at
home
and
working
from
home,
probably
popping
in
now
and
again
into
the
office,
you
know,
but
sometimes
those
novelty
can
wear
off.
So
just
I've
been
the
one-to-one
if
they
wanted
to
come
back
full-time.
There
won't
be
any
barriers
and
and
stuff
like
that.
Apart
from
picking
up
on
other
issues
and
that's
30,
we
must
remember
there's
a
lot
more.
B
People
are
quite
happy
to
provide
service
for
our
for
the
public
and
that's
what
they're
there
for
it's
not
about
being
at
all
and
also
with.
I
think
it
was
raised
last
time
we
don't
want
issues
raising
with
regards
insurance,
etc,
so
for
them
to
consider
the
officers
as
have
picked
up
all
that
with
regards
to
insurance,
extra
eating
gas,
electric,
etc,
and
why
I'm
mentioning
this
because
working
in
the
nhs?
This
did
come
up
about
some
office
staff
working
from
home
and
the
novelty
show
were
wear
off
quite
easy.
F
Thank
you.
It's
just
in
relation
to
the
working
from
home,
and
I
I
in
in
another
role
at
council.
I,
I
am
a
women's
champion
and
I
attend
some
of
the
staff
network
meetings
and
there
are
concerns.
Obviously,
during
the
pandemic,
working
at
home
place
an
enormous
amount
of
pressure
on
particularly
women,
I'm
not
sitting
on
men,
but
a
lot
of
reports
have
been
written
on
how
it
it
placed
that
additional
that
additional
burden
on
women
we've
had
reports
of
women
getting
up.
F
You
know
it's
at
5am,
doing
a
couple
of
hours
work
before
children
go
up
and
then
having
to
home
school,
then
doing
some
more
work.
Then
you
know
working
until
11
o'clock
at
night,
balancing
children
work
running
a
home,
all
those
kind
of
things
and-
and
some
people
are
concerned
that,
although
for
some
people-
and
you
know
that
working
at
home
works
better
for
them
and
their
caring
responsibilities
for
others,
it
places
an
extra
burden,
and
so,
if
we
can
just
you
know
just
because
it
won't,
you
know
the
the
burden
of
caring.
F
It
suits
people
better,
some
people
better
working
at
home.
It
doesn't
suit
everybody.
F
Better,
so
if
we
can
just
be
mindful
of
that
and
that
one
size
doesn't
fit
all
and
that
we
really
do
need
to
you
know,
we
really
do
need
to
have
those
individual
conversations
with
people
to
make
sure
that
we
are
helping
people
as
much
as
we
can
and
not
placing
an
extra
burden
just
by
you
know,
asking
them
to
work
at
home
or
doing
that
blended
working
because
we're
each
person
is
individual
and
we
need
to
take
that
into
account.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
council
has
this
point
very
well
made,
and
I
know
you
made
a
point
recently
in
another
context
around
ensuring
protection
against
the
domestic
violence
type
situations,
and
I
just
think
that's
worth
pointing
out
here
as
well.
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
say
anything
on
that
as
well.
Please,
council,
es
wood.
F
Yes,
thank
you.
We,
we
have
seen,
obviously
in
the
last
18
months,
a
a
significant
rise
in
in
domestic
violence
incidents,
because
everybody
or
not
everybody
most
people
have
been
working
at
home
and
we've
found
that
people
who
have
been
who
have
suffered
domestic
violence-
and
this
has
increased
during
lockdown,
because
people
have
been
you
know
in
houses
together,
isolating
or
working
from
home
and
they've
been
spending.
F
You
know
their
whole
24
7
at
home,
and
this
has
increased
domestic
violence
for
both
men
and
women,
and
we
know
that
stuff
has
had
a
significant
impact
and
going
forward.
Obviously,
that's
gonna
as
we
come
out
of
lockdown,
that's
going
to
become
more
prevalent
and
and
we're
going
to
see
the
impact
of
that
as
we
come
out
of
lockdown.
F
So
again,
people
who
have
been
working
from
home
and
need
to
be
given
the
option
to
come
into
the
office,
because
that
may
be
the
the
the
route
they
need.
You
know
if
they
have
been
suffering
this
domestic
violence
over
the
last
18
months.
Because
of
being,
you
know,
trapped
in
a
ho
in
a
home,
basically
with
a
perpetrator,
they
need
to
be
able
to
come
into
the
office
and
hopefully
get
the
help
they
need.
F
F
You
know,
look
at
that,
but
we
also
need
to
understand
that
there
are
a
lot
of
people
that
working
from
home
has
had
a
detrimental
impact
on,
and
thank
you
for
letting
me
raise
that
issue,
because
both
the
issues
I've
raised-
and
you
know
I
have
a
detrimental
impact
on
people,
and
we
really
do
need
to
take
account
of
that.
When
we're
looking
at
the
home
working
policy.
A
Thank
you,
council
s,
wood.
Neil,
do
you
want
to
comment?
I
assume
the
one-to-ones
is
the
way
that
will
come
through
and
and
I'd
just
emphasize,
the
the
the
need
for
that
to
be
taken
seriously
counselor.
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
come
in
on
this
point
or
is
it
something
else.
A
E
I
think
I
think,
there's
just
a
general
point
here,
which
I
think
is
to
note,
which
is,
I
hope,
council
honestly,
which
is
that
I
think
that
there's
a
board.
We
have
all
reiterated.
I
think
this
meeting
more
than
most
it's
been
more
cross-party,
I
think
in
the
past.
E
It's
been
certainly
something
that
I
feel
has
not
been
looked
into
enough,
which
is
ultimately
that
our
staff
need
to
be
looked
after,
whether
they're
at
home,
or
whether
they're
in
the
workplace
and
be
this
today
that
the
restrictions
have
eased
and
therefore,
as
a
result,
the
guidance
is
work
from
home,
if
possible,
etc.
That
we
need
to
make
sure
that
going
forward.
E
We
have
a
strategy
not
only
just
in
our
office
space,
but
also
more
generally,
so
that
when
people
want
to
work
in
the
office,
they
can
work
in
the
office,
because
there
will
hopefully
come
a
time
when
we
can
get
back
to
normality,
whatever
that
normality
does
look
like,
and
I
do
want
to
make
sure
that
we
haven't
gone
too
far
down
the
line
of
being
too
flexible
in
terms
of
more
flexible
workplaces,
rather
than
actually
having
deaths.
E
B
All
I
was
going
to
say
is:
is
there
any
way
you
can
change
your
statement
to
actually
ask
me
to
do
something
on
my
scrutiny
board?
You
know
literally
put
it
in
the
statement
say
you
know
the
board
recommend
that
this
paragraph
be
passed
to
the
environment
scrutiny
board
to
reflect
the
the
concerns
that
have
been
expressed
by
people
today,
and
then
that
makes
me
have
to
do
something,
not
that
I
wouldn't
do
it
anyway.
B
But
what
I
mean
is
I've
got
a
formal
minute
that
says
it's
like
something
when
it
comes
when
you
were
governance,
when
you
needed
something
done
you,
you
formally
sent
it
to
me
rather
than
just
asking
you
formally
sent
it
to
me
and
it's
a
way
of
making
sure
it
goes
on
the
agendas.
That's
the
only
suggestion.
Well,.
D
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
echo
the
points
that
have
been
made
around
flexibility.
I
mean
people
may
well
change
their
minds
over
the
course
of
the
next
year.
It's
okay
thinking!
You
want
to
work
at
home
now.
D
You
may
not
want
to
do
that
when
you've
done
it
for
another
year,
so
we
we're
going
to
have
to
have
some
sort
of
flexibility
as
to
whether
people
can
change
their
minds
and
also
maybe
a
bit
more
information
on
what
touchdown
spaces
we're
going
to
have
and
where
they're
going
to
be
so
that
people
can
maybe
work
locally,
but
not
necessarily
at
home
all
the
time.
So
you
can
get
out
get
out
when
you
need
to
and
just
see
somebody
else,
that's
different
to
the
house.
D
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
I
think
thanks
for
that,
councillor
chapman,
and
I
think
that
the
point
you're
making
generally
around
flexibility
and
is
really
well
made.
I
think,
there's
also
an
issue
around
life.
Life
changes.
Life
circumstance
changes.
A
I
can't
quite
think
of
the
right
phrase,
but,
for
example,
if
you
were
saying
seeing
you
moving
with
someone
else,
your
lifestyle
circumstances
might
mean
or
you're
in
a
different
situation,
or
you
were
living
with
a
family
and
now
you're
living
by
yourself
again,
that
might
change
whether
you
want
to
work
at
home
or
not,
and
I
also
accept
we
do
need
to
get
more
information
about
these
touchdown
points.
A
E
Thank
you
chair.
I
just
wanted
to
ask
if
it's
okay,
what
plans
we
have
in
the
future
to
address
this
particular
issue
in
our
work
program
going
forward,
and
especially
looking
at
more
generally,
I
know.
Obviously,
we
have
the
regular
staff
surveys,
but
in
terms
of
bums,
on
seats
etc
in
the
future,
and
also
looking
at
those
seats
being.
A
Available
rob:
do
you
want
to
comment
on
that?
I
know
we're
discussing
the
work
program
later,
but
if
you
just
briefly
comment
on
that,
thanks.
J
Chair
yeah,
so
in
terms
of
bringing
this
this
item
back,
that
there's
a
there
are
two
well,
there
are
a
number
of
elements
to
it.
Council
scopes
has
mentioned,
there's
the
technology
side.
J
I
t
there's
the
hr
side,
which
I
think
we're
talking
about
here
substantively
in
this
statement
and
then
there's
also
the
estate
side,
which
I
think
you
know
is
still
it's
still
in
the
works,
and
it's
not
a
final
picture
so
in
terms
of
a
work
program
and
bringing
it
back
in
the
autumn
to
me
seems
like
a
reasonable
suggestion
with
the
agreement
of
the
board
and
the
chair,
and
certainly
in
the
back
of
my
mind,
I
was
thinking
that
so
I
you
know,
I'd
be
happy
to
formalize
and
put
it
on
on
the
work
program.
A
So
so
what
I
do
is
I
talk
to
offices
and
others
about
when
when's
appropriate
in
terms
of
when
works
can
be
completed.
So
we
have
an
input
before
final
decisions
are
made.
Council
hamilton.
B
Yeah
and
just
one
last
thing,
I'm
going
to
say
with
regards
to
this
I
mean
all
this
stuff.
We're
talking
about
is
mostly
based
around
office
stuff,
but
you
know
we
haven't,
got
anything
really
in
place
for
those
stuff
who
asks
them
to
be
out
there
and
on
the
ground
all
the
time
they
have
no
choice,
whether
they're
coming
to
one
day
or
two
days,
etc.
So
I
just
hope
we're
looking
at
the
elf
and
being
as
much
as
the
same,
because
this
is
based
mostly
around
office
stuff.
B
It's
not
based
around
the
the
the
what
they
call
been
they're,
not
called
bin
men,
but
I'll,
say
big
men
and
carers,
etc.
So,
while
we're
looking
at
this
for
all
the
stuff
which
is
mostly
office
based
and
can
we
also
look
at
the
security
stuff
and
and
others
ensure
that
whatever
hr
do
their
health
and
well-being
is
taken
into
account
as
well,
because
they
don't
have
a
choice
whether
coming
one
day
or
two
day
or
stay
at
home
or
work
at
home
or
whatever
you
know.
So
this
is
mostly
about
office
stuff.
A
A
So
in
terms
of
this,
I
guess
what
I'm
hearing
is
that
we
want
to
specifically
add
a
comment
about
apprentices
and
apprenticeships,
and
people
are
training.
A
A
What
I'm
going
to
propose
is
that
we
agree
this
subject
to.
I
guess
two
things,
one,
these
tweaks,
which
myself
and
rob
would
agree
and
two
that
this
agenda
doesn't
fall
off
the
radar
of
our
scrutiny
board,
and
so
we
keep
keep
going
in
the
future.
That's
that's
the
proposal
I'll
put
on
the
table.
Are
the
board
members
happy
with
that
as
a
as
a
way
forwards.
A
Take
silence
as
a
yes
just
to
be
clear:
yep,
I'm
seeing
nods.
So
okay,
let's
do
that.
Just
really
thank
every
member
for
their
comments
on
that.
I
think
this
is
really
important
issue
and,
as
we
know,
balancing
all
the
different
pressures
of
welfare
of
our
staff
and
delivering
services,
especially
at
a
time
when
some
teams
are
shrinking,
makes
it
paid
very
challenging.
Okay,
let's
move
on
to
agenda
item
five
and
we've
got
bev
and
leonardo.
A
Do
you
want
to
introduce
yourselves
first
and
then
give
us
an
overview
of
your
report?
Please.
G
G
So
in
the
report
which
we
have
submitted,
you
find
on
section
four,
a
part
which
talks
about
the
prioritization
of
projects
and
also
gives
the
overall
prioritization
criteria
which
is
currently
used
in
the
digital
function.
As
you
can
see,
we
prioritize
projects
by
urgency
and
also
strategic
importance,
and
we
determine
four
different
priorities
with
the
first
one
being
the
highest
and
the
fourth
one
which
we
serve
straightaways
and
with
priority
number,
four
being
the
one
which
has
least
importance
or
will
be
fulfilled
after
property.
G
One
two:
three:
it's
fair
to
say
that,
as
you
can
see
from
the
table,
we
have
tried
to
put
the
emphasis
on
strategic
importance
and
the
urgency.
You
see
things
and
if
you
look
at
the
table-
and
you
see
things
like
consideration
around
the
strategic
savings
and
service
failure,
particularly
if
a
project
is
trying
to
dealing
with
a
critical
failure,
a
critical
need-
which
of
course
can
impact
the
services
that
we
provide
to
our
citizens.
But
it
also
looks
at
things
like
corporate
resolution,
legislative
and
compliance
and
even
unforeseen
events.
G
As
we
know,
as
you
know,
we
have
we
had
the
coffee
90
as
an
14
invent,
but
we
also
look
at
urgency
in
terms
of
how
deadlines
can
be
moved
and
if
there
are
flexibility
or
not.
So
that
is
what
you
see
on
priority
number
one
and
as
you
move
from
that
priority
to
the
number
four,
there
are
different
gradients
in
terms
of
how
the
flexibility
in
terms
of
time
and
strategic
and
person
changes,
and
it's
fair,
also
to
point
out
that
we
will
fulfill
once.
G
We
have
defined
priorities,
resources
to
project
based
on
the
skills
as
well,
that
we
have
available,
because
certain
projects,
of
course,
will
demand
the
different
skills.
And
additionally,
we
will
have
to
make.
We
make
regularly
pragmatic
decision
in
terms
of
where
current
projects
are
in
the
life
cycle
as
well.
So
that
gives
you
an
important
point
in
terms
of
how
the
s
digital
function
prioritize
projects.
G
I'm
personally
reviewing
the
prioritization
by
each
directorate
in
the
council,
and
I
have
a
meeting
schedule
with
each
of
their
slt
and
in
terms
of
reviewing
the
priorities
and
see
if
they
agree
as
well
with
our
scoring
and
then
I
will
bring
the
result
also
further
to
clt
if
there
are
any
further
need
or
conversation,
I'm
also
working
on
a
five-year
plan
to
understand
better
and
plan
on
how
rationalization
of
applications
in
the
council,
because
it
consumes
a
lot
of
our
resource
capacity.
G
Later
on.
In
the
report
you
find
that
mentioned
a
statement
regarding
seven
percent
of
our
resources
are
located
to
support
and
gives
the
light
on,
leaving
a
very
small
capacity
dedicated
to
actually
new
project.
New
project
works,
which
is
fundamental,
particularly
as
we
want
to
move
to
the
new
digital
world
so
prepared
in
a
five
years.
Plan
is
fundamentals
when
it
comes
to
actually
see
how
we
can
rationalize
that
estate.
G
We
have
more
than
600
application
and
the
council
with
something
like
1600
1700,
different
access
to
the
basis,
so
it's
quite
a
complex
environment,
so
reducing
that
the
number
of
applications
will
give
us.
Also.
The
ability
to
free
up
people
to
work
on
new
project,
new
processes
and
also
digitizing
and
and
the
third
string
which
we
are
working
on
is
retraining
as
well,
which
is
part
of
redirecting
also
the
capacity
to
new
technology
in
your
project
and
without
going
through
line
by
line.
G
G
G
Those
challenges,
of
course,
in
fulfilling
post
in
the
digital
team,
are
acting
created
or
increased
as
technology
progresses.
Our
technology
changes.
Just
to
give
you
an
example
again
in
the
report
we
highlighted
that
if
we
look
for
a
solution
architect,
which
is
focused
on
cloud,
then
you
can
see
the
market
rate
jumps
even
higher
to
90
000
instead
of
the
average
of
75
000,
and
that
is
just
one
example
of
of
one
type
of
resource
that
when
it
is
focused
on
a
particular
technology,
how
that
demand
differential,
solid
salaries.
G
Of
course,
we
have
an
ng
in
an
njc
scales
which
has
a
minimum
salary
which
we,
which
needs
to
be
reviewed
as
well,
and
we
also
asking
that
we
review
the
importance
of
technical
versus
leadership
as
well
in
terms
of
fulfilling
those
roles
and
assign
the
right
grade
and
salaries.
G
We
have
done
some
work
on
agency
staff
and
we
will
we
have
committed
to
as
much
as
possible
to
move
away
from
contractors
or
age
or
temporary
agency
staff,
which
have
been
imposed
for
longer
than
two
years
and
to
focus
on
the
contractor
coming
in
or
temporary
agency
stuff
to
come
in
and
transfer
the
skills
that
we
currently
don't
have
in
place.
That,
hopefully,
will
help
us
with
retraining
our
staff
and
also
will
help
us
to
focus
those
temporary
agency
staff
on
the
skills
that
or
things
that
perhaps
we
can.
G
We
don't
have
currently
in
the
teaching
in
the
digital
team.
So
there
are
other
things
as
well,
which
we
are
doing.
We
are
definitely
looking
at
retraining
stuff,
but
we're
also
looking
at
a
different
arrangement
when
it
comes
to
having
a
and
perhaps
a
supplier
that
can
provide
border
body
shop
as
a
service
which
will
enhance
incredibly
and
the
ways
we
manage
sorry
not
managing
the
way
we
actually
provide
the
resources
to
fulfill.
The
request
of
that
is
coming
through
to
the
digital
team.
G
It's
fair
to
say
that
the
demand
is
our
stripping
significantly
at
the
capacity
that
we
currently
have.
So
in
conclusion,
we
are
looking
at
workforce
planning
in
terms
of
retraining
in
terms
of
market
rate,
in
terms
of
the
different
arrangement
that
we
have
with
agency.
We
are
also
looking
at
overtimes
and
supplier
capacity
in
that
body
shop
style,
which
I
just
mentioned
about,
so
we
will
continue
to
use
scams
like
apprentices,
students,
placement
trainee,
development
scheme,
etc,
etc.
E
Thank
you
very
much
indeed
chair
and,
and
thank
you
for
that
introduction
leonardo.
I
just
want
to
ask
one
particular
question:
there
was
a
mention
there
about
training
coming
from
from
agency
staff,
and
I
know
there's
a
commitment
to
hold
agency
staff
for
up
to
two
years.
Don't
get
me
wrong?
I
think
it
is
concerning
our
reliance
on
agency
staff,
but
I
appreciate
that
that
won't
be
a
concern
that
other
people
don't
have
as
well.
E
I
just
wanted
to
ask
how
we
securing,
as
it's
mentioned
in
their
contracts,
according
to
the
report
that
training
staff
etc
will
be
kept
within
that.
But
how
can
skills
transfer,
for
example,
between
different
members
of
staff
be
actually
enforced
or
we'll
leave
the
council
and
potentially
take
their
skills
elsewhere?.
G
We
allow
a
line
for
that
andover
to
happen.
So
that's
the
first
thing
that
we
have
put
in
place
as
well.
Additionally,
we
are
looking
for
any
additional
training
that
we
are
doing
to
ask
staff
to
repay
back
the
cost
of
the
training.
That's
what
we
are
looking
to
do
if
they
leave
it
before
two
years.
G
Inevitably,
in
a
market
where
we
struggle
with
some
technical
resources,
particularly
as
we
move
more
to
the
cloud
that
competition
will
always
be
that
and
after
two
years
we
may
still
find
people
which
wants
to
move
anyway,
but
unless
there's
a
list
that
will
give
us
enough
period
to
actually
retrain
or
pass
over
those
skills
internally,
as
well.
E
A
E
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
I
just
my.
It
is
interesting.
This
idea
of
enforcement
through
a
contract
because
effectively
it
would
be
very
interesting
to
see
how
that
actually
happens
in
reality.
Can
I
ask,
is
it
already
in
place
and
how
is
it
currently
working?
Is
it?
How
well
is
it
working
and
has
there?
K
Okay,
okay,
thank
you!
Thank
you
councillors
and
yeah.
It's
not
something
we
have
in
place
at
the
moment,
because
we've
obviously
got
a
number
of
agents
and
staff
who've
been
with
us
for
some
time.
But
what
we
do
with
our
agency
staff
is
write
us
a
scope
of
what
we
want
them
to
deliver
as
part
of
their
contract
with
us.
So
that
will
be
something
that
we'll
add
in
as
part
of
that
delivery.
So
therefore
they
are
obliged
to
deliver
that
in
order
to
fulfill
their
contract
with
us.
K
So
that's
something
we
will
talk
to
the
the
framework
of
agency
partners
that
we
use
at
the
moment
about
building
that
in
so
absolutely
something
we
need
to
move
forward
and
then
picking
up
on
councillor
first
points,
yeah
being
able
to
measure
that
and
make
sure
that
that
is
legally
enforced
is
something
we'll
be
talking
to
our
legal
colleagues
about.
G
And
also,
I
would
add
them
to
complete
the
answer
as
well,
that
coming
from
a
private
sector
that
is
normal
because
even
in
the
private
sector,
where
salary
are
higher,
actually
they
demand
that
the
person
will
repay
back,
for
example,
training
if
they
leave.
You
know
within
the
two
years
from
the
date
where,
for
example,
they
had
the
training,
so
that's
something
that
other
organizations
are
already
doing.
So
we
welcome,
we
will
definitely
move
towards
it.
I
think
neo
wants
to
come
here
or.
H
I
was
just
going
to
say
I
think,
there's
also
a
bit
of
a
distinction
between
those
roles
which,
let's
say,
have
been
taken
on
to
deliver
a
particular
project,
and
then
we
want
somebody
to
hand
over
on
that
on
a
permanent
basis
and
those
roles
frankly,
which
should
be
permanent
anyway,
which
we
are
currently
just
employing
contractors
for
because
we're
not
actually
competitive
in
the
market,
and
actually,
I
think
we
do
and
and
leonardo
has
raised
this
in
the
report
and
it's
a
tricky
one,
but
we
do
need
to
actually
rethink
what
we
are
offering
for
some
of
these
specialist
skills,
because
we're
ending
up
paying
more
for
a
contractor
than
we
would
be
if
we
were
playing
close
to
the
market
rate
and
that
that's
it's
a
difficult
one.
H
H
I
think,
with
legal,
but
about
a
couple
years
ago
now,
looking
at
legal
salaries,
we
did
increase
our
senior
legal
pay
and
we'd
had
something
like
about
15
vacancies.
For
quite
some
time.
We
were
able
then,
to
fill
that
and
then
ended
up
actually
spending
less
than
on
legal,
because
we
weren't
using
so
much
external
advice.
A
And
I
think
that's
the
point
that
we
need
to
make
here
is
around
the
overall
cost.
So
if
you're
saying
a
contractor,
I
don't
know
is
that.
However,
many
hundred
pounds
per
day
having
a
full-time
employee
is
beneficial
for
two
reasons:
one
it's
cheaper
and
we
all
rehearse
the
arguments
about
the
financial
challenges
we
have
as
a
council
and
two
it's
more
sustainable
for
the
council.
You've
got
more
security
around
who
you've
got
and
they've
got
a
proper
notice
period
and
all
that
sort
of
stuff
which
means
transition.
A
If
someone
leaves
it's
much
easier
and
then
you
move
on
to
a
third
point
around
around
their
their
well-being
in
terms
of
proper
sick
leave,
proper
holiday
leave,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
arguments
to
be
made
around
bringing
in
full-time
employees
or
permanent
employees
where
that's
possible
council.
Third,
did
you
want
to
come
back
again.
E
Thank
you
chair
and
echoing
those
comments,
I
think
that
that
neil
mentions
about
the
likes
of
the
taxpayers
alliance
coming.
I
think
scrutiny
is
not
a
bad
thing
and
that's
the
great
thing
about
having
this
as
part
of
the
process,
and
we
should
never
dumb
down
that.
But
at
the
same
time
I
appreciate
you
don't
want
to
pick
figures
out,
but
that
means
that
maybe
we
need
to
then
talk
about
the
strategy,
that's
in
place
to
bring
that
down
and
the
reason
why
I
take
that
is.
E
For
example,
many
people
have
seen
the
article
on
yorkshire
even
in
post
about
the
increase
of
circa
1.3
million,
as
is
in
the
report
over
the
past
two
years
in
terms
of
agency
work,
and
I
just
wanted
to
ask
obviously
neil
mentioned
about
competitiveness
in
the
market.
E
What
sort
of
priority
is
the
council
putting
on
its
digital
workforce
in
terms
of
one?
Are
we
looking
at
any
benchmarking
exercises
to
potentially
look
at
the
competitiveness
of
our
offer?
More
generally,
specifically
tailored
to
the
council
and,
and
also
more
generally
is?
Is
it
a
point
that
actually,
we
are
leaving
ourselves
incredibly
vulnerable
in
a
financial
situation,
but
also
in
terms
of
our
technology
capability?
E
Just
simply
because
of
the
fact
if
the
market
changes
and
we
lose
that
capability,
we
could
certainly
be
vulnerable,
especially
given
how
large
an
organization
we
are
in
comparison
to
other
councils
and
and
how
does
that
fit
into
the
priorities
as
much
in
terms
of
my
questioning.
Thank
you
very
much
indeed,
chair.
H
So,
actually
in
the
appendix
there
is
actually
that
some
quite
good
benchmarking
material
actually
and
there's
some
of
the
reference
to
it
in
the
report.
So
we
are
very
much
looking
at
that.
I
I
do
think
you
know
having
leonardo
coming
in
at
this
new
chief
officer
has
kind
of
freshened
up
our
approach.
I
think
what
I
was
indicating
was,
I
think
we
for
various
reasons.
H
I
think
we've
struggled
a
bit
to
get
our
heads
around
paying-
let's
say
more
for
a
specialist
than
we
might
pay
a
chief
officer
in
certain
departments,
because
that's
what
they're
worth
in
the
market,
it's
not
something
which
it
is
an
easy
step
for
local
government
to
take,
but
I
do
think,
for
the
reasons
you're
indicating
really
the
importance
of
this
agenda
to
actually
meeting
actually
our
long-term
strategic
financial
goals
actually
in
terms
of
organization
and
also
what
actually
the
public
expect
now
in
terms
of
actually
some
types
of
services
that
they
that
they
want
how
they
can
access
services.
H
C
Thanks
joe,
I
get,
I
guess
it's
more
of
a
comment,
but
I
have
the
experience.
Obviously
that
doesn't
equate
to
some
of
the
experience
our
officers
have.
C
But
I
worked
as
a
director
in
the
digital
agency
for
several
years
before
joining
here,
and
I
also
I'm
a
freelance
web
developer
and
I
think
the
problem
seen
at
the
council
are
problems
that
many
businesses,
especially
small
businesses,
have
seen
for
some
time
with
obviously
the
requirement
for
digital
skills
being
quite
quite
a
premium
at
the
moment
and
with
a
lot
of
large
companies
with
very
deep
pockets
able
to
to
pay
whatever
they
wish
for
some
and
also
on
the
other
side.
C
You've
got
a
number
of
people
with
those
technical
skills
who
are
offered
either
a
chance
to
work
for
a
few
weeks
on
one
project
and
get
more
more
money
in
their
salary
than
we
probably
earned
throughout
a
year
in
a
number
so
they're
able
to
pick
and
choose.
So
I
think
it
has
been
a
really
difficult
time
for
the
digital
agencies
and
for
the
digital
world
throughout
that
you
end
up
with
companies
paying
what
may
look
above
the
odds.
C
But
it's
for
specific
skills
that
that
are
very
rare
and,
unfortunately,
education
didn't
maybe
keep
up
with
demand
for
in
the
in
the
speed.
But
also
then
there
are
many
people
who
may
work
in
the
digital
sector
who
quite
enjoy
that
flexible
time
and
the
flexible
working
that
possibly
the
the
council
may
be
able
to
offer
and
may
be
able
to
make
a
real
offer
too.
And
there
are
many
that
that
may
not
want
to
work
for
some
employers.
That
would
want
to
work
for
maybe
a
small
agency
or
maybe
the
council.
C
So
I
think
that's
a
real
bonus.
We
have
so.
There
have
been
many
employers
in
the
city
of
large
digital
employees
that
that
many
of
us
wouldn't
work
for
for
various
principles,
and
actually
the
council
is
one
that
I'm
sure
many
people
would
be
proud
to
work
for.
But
I
think
it
is
we're
finding
ourselves
in
the
same
position
as
many
others.
Unfortunately,
our
pockets
aren't
quite
as
deep
as
some
of
the
companies,
but
hopefully
our
offer
rounded,
and
what
you
get
to
work
as
part
of
working
for
the
council.
C
I
think,
hopefully
should
should
help
us
on
that
way.
I
think
it's
completely
right
that
we
should
look
for
for
permanent
staff
wherever
possible
and
unfortunately,
we
are
going
to
have
to
compete
with
where
many
other
companies
are
in.
What
is
an
incredible
challenge
in
time.
A
D
Yeah,
that's
just
to
echo
really
what
counselor
carlos
just
said.
I
actually
do
work
for
a
big
company
when
I'm
when
I'm
not
doing
this
and
they
have
deep
pockets
and
we
still
struggle
to
get
eddie
data
analytics
people
in
at
a
senior
level.
So
it's
not
just
unique
to
the
council
or
small
companies.
It's
there
are
scarce
resources.
It's
not
even
just
technical
skills,
either
we're
struggling
with
pay
inflation
across
the
board
generally.
At
the
moment,.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
councillor,
chapman
thanks
for
those
comments.
Neil
is
your
hand
up,
because
you
want
to
make
a
comment.
No
okay,
so
I
think
I
think,
there's
if
there's
a
few
things
there
leonardo
and
I
think
I'd
come
back
to
the
five
year
plan
that
you
mentioned,
and
it's
just
on
top
of
page
101,
and
I
think
what
would
be
good
is
maybe
to
to
circulate
sort
of
an
outline
of
what
that
might
look
like
to
the
board.
A
And
then
we
could
have
a
discussion
about
when
next
to
bring
this
agenda
item
on
this
particular
aspect
back
to
scrutiny.
So
we
can
just
keep
an
eye
on
progress
because
I
I
think
I
think
you'll
recognize
that
there
is
a
challenge
and
I
think
the
the
point
is
made
about
significantly
more
demand
than
capacity
is
a
real
concern
for
this
scrutiny
board
and
so
seeing
how
you
manage
that,
because,
obviously
significant
more
demand
isn't
a
sustainable
position
and
so
we're
keen
to
see
how
that
develops
and
keep
an
eye
and
scrutinize
that
progress.
A
So
that's
that's
the
recommendation.
I'd
make
to
for
the
board
to
move
forward
with
council
hamilton.
Do
you
want
to
comment
your
hand,
went
up
it's
back
down,
I
don't
know
sorry.
Yes,.
B
No,
I'm
just
we're
going
to
ask.
I
know
it's
a
very
competitive
market
etc,
and
these
vacancies
that
we
have
are
they
advertised
as
full
time
or
could
have
we
considered
like
part-time,
because
you
know
they
might
look
at
this
as
a
part-time
salary.
You
know
it
might
be
a
silly
question,
but
I
just
thought
I'd
ask
because,
if
we're
having
problem
getting
people
to
take
them
on
if
they're
full-time-
and
we
know
well,
I
can
see
how
much
most
of
them
earn
would
have.
We
considered
maybe
part-time.
K
Yeah
I
apologize
as
well.
I
had
to
disconnect
I'm
having
terrible
home
broadband
connection
issues
this
morning,
so
I
missed
some
of
that,
but
but
yeah
absolutely
counselor.
We've
we've
offered
part-time,
flexible
working,
obviously
remote
working
as
well
as
something
that's
quite
suitable
for
digital
skills.
So
we've
tried
a
number
of
those
things
over
a
number
of
years
and
we
do
have
people
who
take
us
up
on
those
options,
but
it's
just.
K
It
is
an
increase
in
a
competitive
market,
and
it
is
that
balance,
as
I
think
was
being
talked
about
earlier
on-
that
we
need
enough
staff
with
enough
skills
that
we
we
can
do
the
bulk
of
the
workload
and
yes
from
time
to
time.
We
may
supplement
those
with
agency
workers
but
part
of
the
dilemma
as
well,
but
we'll
be
having
enough
permanent
staff
to
take
on
those
skills
from
from
the
agency
workers
at
the
end
of
those
contractors.
K
A
A
G
Yeah
I
just
wanted
to
to
expand
on
the
point
that
mentioned,
because
we
have
a
actively
recently
looking
at
some
roles
where
working
from
home.
I
know
I've
been
since
I've
been
on
the
scrutiny
meeting
this
morning
from
the
beginning.
A
Help
thank
you,
leonardo.
So
if
I
go
back
to
just
what
I
was
saying
around
a
five-year
plan,
if
we
could
to
circulate
that
and
we'll
I
work
with
rob
on
when
best
to
bring
that
back
in
terms
of
monitoring
progress,
our
board
members
happy
as
that
as
a
way
way
forwards
on
this
item.
I
think
it
sounds
like
we
all
agree.
A
It's
an
important
item
that
we
need
to
keep
an
eye
on
now
more
than
ever,
our
digital
infrastructure
is
as
important
as
it
possibly
could
to
the
effective
working
of
the
council
and
the
delivery
of
services
that
we
provide
the
residents
of
leeds
okay,
good.
I
think
I've
taken
silences
agreement
just
to
be
clear.
A
I
Okay
thanks
good,
thank
you
chair
good
morning,
everybody
yeah,
I
suppose
what
the
reports
the
points
that
the
report's
making
really
is
that
agency
workers
are
always
going
to
sort
of
feature
in
our
staffing
mix
and
really
I
don't
to
see
a
situation
where
we
would
have
no
agency
workers
at
all
in
a
large
organization
like
leeds
city,
council,
and
you
know,
with
the
experience
of
other
councils,
is
going
to
be
similar.
I
However,
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
demonstrate
that
we
are
getting
good
value
from
what
we
spend
and
that
that
level
of
spend
is
appropriate.
So
the
report
sort
of
details,
the
spend
and
think
one
of
the
points
I'd
make
is
that
there
has
been
a
significant
reduction
in
the
last
10
years
around
the
use
of
agency
workers
emanating
from
her
initial
financial
challenges.
I
But
the
spend
has
gone
up
and
I
think
some
of
the
some
of
the
stuff
that
you've
talked
with
leonardo
about
is
is
probably
an
area
where
that
that's
increased.
Nevertheless,
you
know,
whilst
it's
only
two
percent
of
our
staffing,
spend
overall,
it's
it's
it's
it's
it's
it's!
You
know
it's.
It's
eight
and
a
half
million
pounds
on
this
this
area.
I
So
the
report
sets
out
where
we
have
workers
what
roles
they
do
when
the
sort
of
spend
across
directorates
and
typically,
we've
got
around
110
agency
workers
in
as
full-time
equivalent
support
in
our
overall
workforce.
I
We've
stressed
the
reasons
why
we
why
we
benefit
from
having
agency
workers,
which
fundamentally
reasons
of
about
flexibility,
but
also,
I
think,
to
cover
skills
gaps
where
we
have
them
and
again,
I
think
you've
discussed
that
quite
a
length
with
leonardo,
but
we,
you
know,
we
probably
like
to
experience
other
gaps
in
the
near
future.
Maybe
construction
or
something
like
that.
Maybe
an
area
where
there's
this
difficulties
recruiting.
I
But
what
we've
also
stressed
is
that
there
is
a
premium
on
that
flexibility.
When
you
employ
agency
workers,
you,
you
add,
on
a
number
of
overheads
to
the
hourly
rate
that
an
agency
worker
would
be
paid
and
when
you
look
at
that,
it
tends
to
be
that
it
would
be
cheaper
to
employ
someone
directly.
Even
if
you
include
the
the
pension
costs
and
the
other
overheads
that
we
have
in
terms
of
our
employment
package,
but
nevertheless,
those
agency
workers
are
cheaper
than
when
we
pay
people
premium
rate
overtime.
I
So
there's
something
there
about.
You
know
having
that
mix
in
terms
of
having
the
the
right
number
of
car
staff,
and
then
how
would
you
supplement
it
with
staff,
perhaps
earning
overtime,
but
nevertheless,
there'd
be
skilled
and
experienced
staff
who
know
how
to
do
the
job
versus
bringing
in
an
agency
worker
to
provide
some
cover,
given
all
of
that,
what
we
would
recommend
really
is
is
a
closer
look
at
what
is
actually
going
on
and
particularly
to
look
at
the
things
that
drive
the
demand
for
agency
workers.
I
It's
been
difficult
to
do
that
because
of
covid
for
a
number
of
obvious
reasons
in
terms
of
working
with
services,
but
I
think,
as
we
as
we
start
to
sort
of
understand
what
demand
will
be,
we
can
revisit
some
of
the
things
that
drive
demands.
A
lot
of
cover
is
in
relation
to
short-term
needs,
so
it
requires
us
to
look
at
things
like
sickness.
I
How
well
people
plan
for
other
other
cover,
whether
that's
anticipated
or
not,
anticipated
another
area?
That's
probably
worth
looking
at
is
that
tenure
of
agency
workers
which
again
links
to
the
points
that
leonardo's
made.
But,
generally
speaking,
if
we
have
people
staying
more
than
12
weeks,
we
start
to
question
whether
or
not
if
it
isn't
flexibility
do.
I
Could
we
recruit
people
instead
into
either
temporary
or
permanent
roles,
and
I
think
that's
a
piece
of
work
that
we
will
need
to
do
especially
looking
with
services
at
the
length
of
time
that
people
have
been
here
and
what
their
plans
are
to
remove
the
their
agency
workers.
Really,
if,
if
they
are
permanent,
like
neil
said
we
need
to,
we
need
to
make
them
part
of
the
core
workforce
and
we've
done
that
before
as
a
method
of
reducing
our
spend
and
getting
the
the
staffing
mix
right
beyond
that.
I
There
are
a
number
of
other
recommendations
which
would
concern
some
of
the
controls
that
we
have
in
terms
of
the
hiring.
But
I
think
one
of
the
points
I
would
make
is
that
we
want
to
be
able
to
enable
services
to
make
informed
choices
and
to
able
to,
I
suppose,
have
sort
of
key
operational
flexibility,
but
part
of
that.
I
I
think
one
of
the
lessons
that
we
have
learned
from
kovid
is
that
we've
very
successfully
remodeled
our
workforce
when,
when
we
needed
to-
and
I
think
there
are
some
opportunities
there
about-
perhaps
multi-skilling
and
offering
people
other
other
chances
to
do-
do
things.
So
you
know
some
of
the
changes
that
we're
making
around
administration
may
be
an
area
where
that
that
could
be
looked
at
and
equally
we
have
got
examples
where,
where
this
happens,
so
hgv
drivers
from
one
service
can
work
in
another.
I
So
those
points,
I
think,
are
important
and
then
finally,
I
think
the
point
about
skills
and
workforce
planning
and
the
point
that
leonardo
made
around
you
know
you
can
pay
to
see
this.
Perhaps
some
something
is
not
only
just
getting
work
done
but
see
it's
part
of
your
training
budget.
So
if
there
are
specialists
who
can
teach
us
again,
I
think
we
could
look
at
applying
that.
A
little
bit
more
broadly
in
other
areas
to
see
how
that
would
work.
I
So
the
recommendations,
I
guess
for
the
board-
are
for
some
work
to
be
done
to
give
assurances
that
services
are
on
top
of
this
and
because
of
the
I
guess,
the
all
of
the
disruption
of
kovid
it
probably
is.
There
probably
needs
to
be
an
understanding
that
some
of
the
use
that
we've
got
in
the
plants
of
use
aren't
necessarily
the
ones
that
we'd
want,
but
we
need
to
see
how
we
can
work
with
services
to
to
get
things
back
onto
an
even
kill.
A
Thank
you
alex
and
just
to
be
clear
that
when
you
see
somewhere,
what
I'm
after
is
like
a
firm
commitment
to
go
through
the
proper
process
with
each
director
around
the
agency
and
overtime
work
and
look
at
whether
full-time
people
could
be
like
permanent
staff
could
be
a
cheaper
alternative
and
better
alternative
is.
I
I
C
Thanks
chet,
I
guess
I
I
was
just
reflecting
a
bit
on
the
report
and
some
of
the
some
of
the
comments
we
had
there,
because
actually
it's
not
when
looking
at
the
agency
workers,
looking
at
the
difference
between
1819
and
then
on
to
to
1920
to
2021,
I'm
actually
quite
surprised
that
things
haven't
got
worse
than
than
they
are
in
the
scale
of
there
and
things
haven't
increased
the
amount
of
upset
and
unrest
that
many
of
us
have
found
in
our
homes
over
the
last
little,
while
I'm
sure
has
meant
that
many
on
frontline
services
of
a
very
short
notice
not
been
able
to
appear
for
work
and
and
then
obviously,
we've
had
to
try
and
find
alternative
members
of
staff
to
to
make
sure
those
services
can
continue,
and
actually,
I
think,
for
many
of
those
services
which
are
essential
we'd
have
to
at
some
point
then
rely
on
some
agency
staff
coming
in
in
order
to
make
sure
they
go
after.
C
You
know
that
there'll
be
services
that
are
acting
at.
You
know,
with
that
with
20
fewer
staff
than
they've
had
previously
etc,
and
you
know
at
nine
o'clock
this
morning.
I
couldn't
leave
my
house
and
had
a
small
child
at
home
and
then
by
10
o'clock
this
morning.
Luckily,
we
had
a
negative
test
result
back
and
I
ran
him
off
to
school
just
before
our
meeting,
but
that
that
kind
of
unrest,
I
think,
is
understandable
where
the
changes
come
from
in
the
numbers
in
these
couple
of
years.
C
I
wouldn't
necessarily
want
them
the
use
of
the
pandemic
to
conflate
that
at
all
and
us
to
be
looking
very
short
term
in
time
which
we
urgently
needed
to
keep
services
running
and
that
somehow
affects
the
view
that
we
have
of
obviously
making
sure
that
all
the
services
have
permanent
staff
ready
to
do
their
jobs
and
getting
the
benefits
that
they
can
get
from
from
working
at
the
council.
C
So
I
think
that's
that's
an
important
point
on
there,
how
we,
how
we
make
sure
we
look
at
this,
so
we're
not
seeing
a
snapshot
of
what
could
be
the
worst
situation
and
they're,
seeing
actually
what's
going
to
be
day
to
day
going
forward.
I
guess
that's
more
of
a
comment
chair,
but
but
I
don't
know
if,
if
alex
has
any
thoughts
on
when
the
right
timing
for
that
work
then
might
be.
A
So
I
totally
accept
that
comment
and
you
think
about
the
refuse
team,
for
example,
and
I'm
sure
they've
probably
had
more
agency
than
normal
because
of
bubble
closures
within
the
teams.
That's
not
necessarily
to
say
that
it's
always
going
to
be
like
that
when
we
don't
have
bubble
closures
in
the
same
way
alex.
Do
you
want
to
comment
as
well.
I
Yeah,
I
think
the
the
likelihood
is
that
we
will
see
some
increases
and,
if
you
think
back
to
the
position
we
were
in
last
year,
a
lot
of
our
cover
came
from
our
own
staff,
who
were
involved
in
services
that
were
closed.
So
a
good
example
would
be.
You
know,
lots
and
lots
of
refuse
need
was
covered
by
recreation
assistants
who
worked
in
sports
centres
who
were
retrained
and
re-mobilized
to
cover
that
we
haven't
got
that
resource
anymore.
So
it
is
likely
that
we
may
see
some
increases,
especially
to
provide
that
back
cover.
I
So
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
timing,
that's
that's
really
important
that
we
do
consider
that
and
I
think
in
terms
of
counselor
carl's
point
I
think
you
know
part
of
the
discussion
with
the
services
sort
of
say.
Well,
what's
what's
the
current
exceptional
need
and
what's
the
underlying
need
and
trying
to
identify
the
two
a
little
bit
more
effectively
than
perhaps
we've
done
at
the
moment.
A
Thank
you
alex
councillor,
hamilton.
B
Oh
gangster,
I
think
alex,
might
have
answered
my
question.
Actually.
My
point
was
regarding
the
deploying
offering
alternative
work.
I
would
also
asking
which
training
is
also
included
in
that
you
know,
because
sometime
when,
when
you
deploy
stuff,
people
expect
them
to
be
able
to
know
the
job
etc.
B
You
know
so
when,
when
they've
been
deployed
or
offered,
is
training
included
in
that
to
bring
them
up
to
where
you
know
where
I
think
you
might
have
answered
them
it
with
regards
to
you
said
about
the
park
stuff
and
helping
out
elsewhere,
but
that
wasn't
gonna
be
my
question.
You
know
straining
included
in
the
redeployment
and
the
offering.
I
Yes,
it
is,
and
it's
also
it
will
be
to
a
degree
included
in
some
of
the
sort
of
very
basic
induction
that
you
would
give
an
agency
worker.
So
they
know
what
they're
doing
in
terms
of
you
know
absolute
essentials
around
health
and
safety,
if
they're
only
coming
in,
for
you
know
a
shift
or
something
through
to
having
to
understand
sort
of.
I
I
don't
know
rit
systems,
and
things
like
that,
so
there
is
a
premium
again
on
agency
workers
when
they
come
in
the
other
thing
that
might
be
worth
mentioning
as
well.
Council
scopes
is.
We
are
interested
to
see
how
we
can
use
this
opportunity.
I
guess
with
agency
workers
to
find
people
better
work
that
I
use
this
phrase
a
lot.
I
I
think,
there's
a
danger
that
you
see
our
agency
workforce
is
a
kind
of
commodity
that
you
just
buy
and
plug
into
your
workforce,
actually
they're
doing
a
lot
of
frontline
work,
they're
people
that
aren't
necessarily
highly
paid.
I
know
we've
talked
about
the
highly
paid
ones,
but
there's
a
lot
of
people
working
in
you
know
blue
collar
jobs
and
sometimes
that
agency
work
isn't
something
that
they
want
to
do.
A
Thank
you
alex
and
that
I
know
when
we've
discussed
this
before
you
said
that,
with
our
agency
supply,
there's
been
capacity
to
bring
them
in
to
full
time
to
to
permanent
employment
as
part
of
the
contract
with
the
agency
of
suppliers.
Is
that
right.
I
That's
right,
yeah,
basically,
all
agencies,
because
they
have
to
work
hard
to
find
people
who
short
notice
charge,
what
they
call
a
finder's
fee
and
in
our
contract
we
have
to
pay
a
finder's
fee,
which
I
I
think
is
about
a
third
of
a
year's
salary
unless
we
employ
someone
after
12
weeks.
So
if
we,
if
the
agency
gets
three
months
business
out
of
us,
they'll
waive
that
fee,
if
we
recruit
them
into
the
job
that
they're
doing
and
if
they're
getting
a
different
job
in
the
council,
that's
a
different
matter.
A
Yeah
we'd
have
to
just
be
screwed
about
not
not
paying
that
fee
two
weeks
before,
where,
after
10
weeks,
I
think.
A
E
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
I
wanted
to
ask
a
particular
question
about
overtime,
because
obviously
it
mentioned
the
report
that
9.64
million
has
been
spent
on
overtime
just
for
agency
workers.
Can
I
ask
more
generally
if
we
could
have
some
more
meat
on
the
bone
about
why
that
is
there
anything
being
done
to
mitigate
those
particular
costs,
given
the
fact
that
those
individuals
are
obviously
being
contracted
for
particular
projects
and
also
what
kpis
are
in
place
to
make
sure
that
those
are
being
actually
delivered?
E
I
appreciate
that
across
a
variety
of
different
departments,
but
it
is
concerning
that,
potentially
there
is
such
a
significant
amount,
which
is
actually
potentially
even
more
than
the
cost
for
agency
workers
themselves.
So.
A
I
think
just
to
to
clarify
my
understanding
is
that
over
time
is
permanent
staff
being
paid
overtime
rates
and
the
agency
staff
is
so
it's
it's
separate.
So
when
you
have
a
shortage
of
service,
you
have
a
choice
between
bringing
in
an
agency
member
of
staff
or
paying
our
regular
staff
over
time.
A
E
Well,
if
that
be
the
case,
no
problem-
and
I
think
the
biggest
thing
is-
I
do
know
that
there
is
a
a
further
discussion
that
maybe
councilor
anderson
would
like
to
come
in
on
to
do
with
his
particular
board
in
relation
to
particularly
the
refuse
department
and
the
amount
of
agency
workers
that
are
required,
and
also
more
generally,
the
service
provision.
But
I
do
think
there
is
a
general
concern
here.
E
I
think
there's
one
further
point,
then
to
add:
do
we
have
any
particular
data
that
could
be
shared
with
the
board
to
show
whether
there
has
been
any
correlation
between
the
amount
of
staff
that
have
left
on
the
early
levers
scheme
or
have
left
the
authority
over
the
previous
year
and
a
half
and
the
increase
in
number
of
agency
workers.
A
Just
can
you
answer
the
question
around
the
eli
point?
I
think
if
council
anderson's
board
is
looking
at
something
separate,
let's
part
that
and
leave
it
for
his
his
board
and
if
he's
going
to
talk
about
agency
for
refuse
specifically,
I
I
can
bring
you
in
in
a
minute.
If,
if
you
have
a
keen
to
comment,
counselor
anderson
come
on
alex.
I
Well,
yes,
councillor
firth,
we
can
provide
some
detail
on
the
breakdown
of
that
overtime
spend
probably
by
servicing
chief
officers,
so
you
can
get
a
sense
of
what
it
was
used
for
and
probably
I
I
need
to
check
with
the
people
that
will
get
me
the
information,
but
we
can
probably
show
how
much
of
that
is
plane
rate
over
time
and
how
much
of
that
is
premium
rate
of
terms
or,
if
that's
helpful,.
A
Yeah-
and
I
just
think,
there's
the
point
worth
making
that
there's,
even
if
directorates
that
have
had
eli
because
of
the
flexibility
requirement,
you
might
need
at
some
agency
anyway,
whatever
size
department
you
have,
it
comes
to
fairfax.
E
E
Yeah
this
obviously
the
role
of
scrutiny
here
is
to
ask
difficult
questions.
Yeah,
absolutely
and
that's
the
reason
I
want
to
ask
that
question
is
the
fact
that
I
appreciate
100
having
worked
for
well,
I
don't
need
to
declare
an
interest,
but
having
worked
for
a
major
recruitment
agency,
I
do
understand
the
work
that
obviously
they've
done
with
the
authority
etc
and
that's
been
declared
in
the
past.
But
I
think
the
biggest
thing
for
me
is
the
fact
that
it
is
asking
whether
the
well
it
would
be
very
helpful
as
a
board.
E
A
H
He
was
related
to
the
council
first
question
I
mean
clearly,
as
alex
said,
we
can
provide
the
information.
I
just,
I
suppose,
caution
the
board
a
little
bit
about
taking
too
much
out
of
this
last
year,
because
it's
been
such
an
unusual
pattern,
you
know
so,
for
example,
you
would
ordinarily
see
some
overtime
within
things
like
sport,
but
actually,
given
that
it's
been
closed
most
of
the
time
it
won't
be
there
and
equally,
you
know
thing
teams
like
the
teams
that
have
been
putting
out
all
the
grant
to
businesses
and
so
forth.
H
They
normally
wouldn't
be
getting
overtime,
but
they
have
because
of
the
particular
pressures
that
have
been
there
and
and
alex
has
also
mentioned
some
of
the
things
which
we've
done
about
redeployment
of
staff
as
well.
So
the
pattern
will
be
unusual
this
year,
albeit
there
are
some.
You
know,
general
lessons
which
have
been
brought
out
in
the
report
itself.
A
Thanks
thanks
neil
and
that's
the
point
I
think
councillor
carlyle
made
as
well.
Isn't
it
okay,
councillor
chapman.
D
Thank
you
chair.
I
was
going
to
suggest
that
would
it
would
it
be
useful
for
us
to
have
a
report
that
looks
at
both
direct
labor
or
directly
employed
staff
and
the
agency
workers
with
budget,
so
we
can
see
where
we've
got
vacancies
and
the
directly
employed
people
and
how
much
of
those
being
filled
by
agency
and
get
a
full
picture
of
the
resourcing
in
each
area.
D
I
you
know
there
are
lots
of
vacancies
at
the
moment
and
we
seem
to
have
a
reasonable
number
of
agency
staff.
It
would
be
good
to
see
how
they
match
up
and
the
other
question
I
had
and
actually
victoria's
gone,
but
in
the
financials
that
we
looked
at
earlier
for
the
exec
board
when
it
talks
about
employee
costs
being
under
budget
or
the
projection
is
they'll
come
under
budget
is.
Does
that
include
the
agency
cost
or
not?
A
We
can
definitely
ask
victoria
outside
the
meeting.
If
that's
as
we
don't,
we
probably
don't
have
the
person
who
can
answer
that
on
online.
I
think
that's
a
really
valid
question.
I
think
your
point
about
this
agency.
This,
I
think,
that's
gonna.
I
don't
know
if
alex
has
the
answer
on
his
fingers,
but
it's
probably
gonna
have
to
be
in
a
follow-up
report,
along
with
the
other
points
we're
making
as
he
as
he
goes
to
each
directorate
almost
at
one
at
a
time.
That's
going
to
come
up
with
that
sort
of
information.
I
I
Would
be
a
better
way
of
doing
it?
I
think
we
could
understand
the
position
of
vacancies
better,
and
I
think
one
of
the
issues
that
we've
got
is
the
speed
at
which
you
recruit
people,
sometimes
where
you've
got
someone
who's
left.
You
need
to
get
the
cover
in
because
you've
got
to
get
the
refuse
wagon
out
or
something
so
that
can
feature
as
part
of
that
work.
If
that
suits
the
board.
D
A
D
Yes
again,
I'm
speaking
from
from
my
own
experience
at
work,
and
you
know
it
can
take
a
long
time
to
recruit
somebody.
You
know
you
can
be
talking
two
or
three
months
and
you
don't
always
know
if
someone's
you
know,
if
they
notice
periods
a
month
that
doesn't
give
you
you
haven't,
got
enough
time
to
get
people
in.
So
there
will
be
gaps.
I'm
just
wondering
how
long
we
do
actually
take
well.
A
I
A
I
Just
make
the
point
that
neil
made
the
it
was
unusual,
the
last
18
months,
so
some
of
the
length
of
time
to
recruit
and
all
sorts
of
additional
vacancy
controls
and
budget
pressures
will
not
give
you
a
normal
picture.
But
we
can
try
and
tease
out
some
information
and
the
correlations
with
the
use
of
overtime
and
agency
work.
A
Yeah
and
I'm
sure
you'll
be
able
to
comment
on
where
it's
unusual
and
where
it's
been
a
long-term
trend
as
well.
I
think
I'm
sure
that
there'll
be
that
experience
in
the
council
and
your
team
alex
counselor
anderson.
B
Yeah,
I'm
just
going
to
come
back
from
council
first
point.
I
would
argue
that
the
memorandum
for
one
of
a
better
phrase
of
understanding
that
you
and
I
have
agreed
on
for
joint
working
on
the
refuge
collection
service,
would
cover
the
points
that
council
first
has
been
made
and
that
you-
and
I
are
already
on
with
going
down
those
particular
thoughts.
A
Thank
you,
council
anderson
just
for
members
and
the
public
who
are
listening.
Council
anderson
and
I
have
been
discussing
how
we
can
do
some
joint
work
together
on
the
recycling
agenda
from
a
resources
perspective,
but
also
as
a
council
anderson's
board
in
terms
of
an
environment
perspective
just
to
see,
if
there's
any
scope,
to
improve
collection
and
or
direction
of
resources
to
in
in
terms
of
the
environmental
impact
of
us
as
a
city,
and
so
hopefully
in
in
the
future
meetings.
There'll
be
some
joint
work
between
the
the
two
boards.
A
Okay,
your
hands
still
up
council
anderson,
but
I
I
don't
think.
A
That's
all
right!
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
so
I
can't
see
anyone
else
indicating
so
I
think
what
we're
saying
if
we
go
to
page
161,
I
think
it's
paragraph
is
it
that
one
recommendations?
A
I'm
not
quite
sure
what
time
scale
that
will
be,
but
I'll
ask
alex
to
liaise
with
rob
in
terms
of
space
on
the
agenda,
but
also
I
recognize
it's
quite
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done
before
before
you
can
just
tick
that
box.
So
that's
the
recommendation,
I
think
we'll.
Unless
anyone
is
dissenting,
I
think
we'll
move
forward
with
that,
taking
silence
as
agreement
good,
okay.
A
So
moving
on
to
page
165
agenda
item
seven
work
program
I'll
pass
on
to
you
rob
just
to
talk
through
this.
J
Thank
you,
chair,
yeah,
just
just
briefly
introduce,
so
this
is
a
updated
work
program
which
reflects
discussion
at
our
june
meeting,
where
a
number
of
suggestions
were
made
as
to
areas
of
work
that
board
members
are
interested
in
council.
J
Scopes
just
mentioned
the
recycling
which
does
feature
in
the
report
there's
stuff
around
the
cult,
the
culture
and
the
work
we
talked
about
earlier,
involving
suggestions
from
council
firth,
and
actually
this
meeting
has
possibly
moved
some
of
the
goalposts
to
some
extent
in
terms
of
the
timings
that
we've
got
there
appendix
one.
So
I
think
I
will
need
to
go
away
and
discuss
with
the
chair
around
that
and
see
how
that
the
autumn,
the
autumn
work
program
see
how
that
big
change
is
as
a
result
of
discussions
today.
J
I
think
that
probably
summarizes
chair.
Thank
you.
A
Are
there
any
questions
or
comments
on
the
work
program
at
this
point
really
happy
to
discuss
anything
in
particular
outside
the
meeting
as
well?
If
that
is
that,
if
that's
helpful,
I
can't
see
any
hands
going
up.
A
So
I'd
like
to
just
thank
offices
for
your
time
and
your
comments,
I'd
like
to
thank
members
of
the
board
for
attending
and
your
very
valuable
input,
it's
always
available
to
bring
scrutiny
from
different
perspectives,
and
I
appreciate
that
and
with
that
I
formally
close
the
meeting
and
ask
rob
to
turn
off
the
live
stream.
Thank
you.
Bye
thanks.