►
From YouTube: Focus On #11 | AMA with New Silver
Description
Forum Post: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/focus-on-11-navigating-real-estate-investment-markets-with-new-silver/14646
On the 11th episode of Focus On, we hosted Kirill Bensonoff @prankstr25 from New Silver for an AMA on Real Estate Investment Markets.
For the newer community members at the DAO, New Silver was the first ‘real-world’ asset voted in by MakerDAO Governance, and celebrated the 1 year anniversary of minting the first Dai backed by RWAs on 21-April.
Following up their recent March 2022 update 1, New Silver joined Focus On to discuss the current macro and micro economic trends affecting the US real estate markets. We discussed how inflation & rising interest rates may affect real estate investors.
A
B
Awesome,
thank
you
so
much
for
the
introduction.
So
my
name
is
kirill
bensonov,
I'm
the
ceo
of
new
silver,
also
on
the
call
with
us
from
the
new
silverton
team.
We
have
john
curry
who's,
the
head
of
capital
markets
and
alex
schweizky
who's.
The
head
of
risk
so
they'll
be
able
to
answer
questions
if
there
are
some
for
them,
but
I'm
gonna
share
my
screen
and
go
through
a
quick
presentation
and
then
take
questions
afterwards.
A
B
Excellent,
okay,
cool
so
just
a
quick
overview,
we're
gonna.
Do
a
quick
company
update,
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
real
estate
trends
and
what's
happening
in
the
macro
in
the
micro
economic
world
and
we'll
talk
about
what
new
silver's
future
planning
looks
like
and
then
we'll
do
the
questions,
as
I
mentioned,
so
yeah
we've
turned
one,
so
I
remember
doing
this
ama
a
little
bit.
I
believe
it
was.
It
was
in
april
of
last
year,
sometime
around
the
first
die
was
minted.
I
believe
year
flew
by.
B
Obviously
it
was
you
know
there.
It
was
not
an
easy
year
necessarily
for
for
the
world
in
general,
but
the
markets,
you
know
in
the
us
and
in
general,
were
favorable
for
part
of
the
time.
And
now
things
are
things
are
changing
we're
we
were
excited,
we're
still
excited
to
to
be.
You
know
the
first
real
world
asset
and
and
the
first
pool
on
central
fusion,
the
first
real
world
asset
to
partner
with
maker
down.
B
So
essentially,
you
know,
we've
done
a
lot
of
things
together
in
the
past
year.
We're
still,
I
believe,
the
largest
real
world
asset
pool
at
the
moment.
We've
had
no
defaults
since
we
started
the
current.
I
believe
revenue
that
I
was
able
to
check
last
week
was
was
north
of
five
five
hundred
thousand
die
per
year.
B
B
So,
as
of
I
think,
I
created
the
presentation
a
few
days
ago.
It
may
be
slightly
different
today,
but
we're
using
somewhere
around
17
million
of
maker
debt
ceiling
out
of
the
20
million
available,
so
around
85
percent
or
so
debt
utilization
in
the
makers
currently
holding
about
69
70
of
the
drop
share.
B
So
we
have
a
number
of
other
co-investors
holding
the
senior
the
senior
shares
so
kind
of
start.
Talking
about
the
real
estate
markets
in
general,
in
the
us
and
and
probably
in
a
lot
a
lot
of
the
world,
we've
seen
obviously
a
lot
of
inflation.
Over
the
past
year
there
was
a
lot
of
liquidity
created
by
the
fed
during
covid
and
and
and
you
know,
I
guess,
the
arthro
alcovet
and
that
resulted
in
or
continued
to
result
in
inflation.
B
You
know,
as
of
april
21st,
probably
even
higher
as
of
today,
I
have
not
checked
today
and
so
that
pushed
the
overall
consumer
mortgage
rate
on
the
average
in
the
us.
This
is
the
30
more
30-year
conforming
rate
for,
let's
say
an
average
price
home,
which
is
about
350
000
to
somewhere
around
the
six
percent
in
some
cases
above
a
six
in
some,
you
know
well
highly
qualified
borrowers,
perhaps
a
little
bit
below
six,
but
but
it's
it's
right
around
six-
and
here
I
have
a
graph
this.
B
This
is
from
like
a
sort
of
a
historical.
I
wanted
to
find
a
historical
graph
of
how
the
mortgage
rates,
which
are
shown
by
the
sort
of
the
the
dark,
the
grayish
colored
line
here
and,
as
we
could
see
like
in
the
the
2000s,
it's
it's
somewhere
very
close
to
zero
and
in
the
80s,
it's
you
know
it's
it's
higher
up
to
like
15,
20
percent
and
how
that
you
know
compares
to
to
the
to
the
to
the
fed
rate.
B
So
so,
yes,
I
think
we'll
talk
we'll
talk
a
bit
about
that
going
forward.
So,
as
far
as
you
know,
what
what
do
the
numbers
look
like
so
from
2008?
You
know,
because
I
think
kind
of
to
take
a
step
back
here.
We've
had
a
number
of
real
estate,
specifically
real
estate
crisis
or
other
crises
that
have
kind
of
resulted
in
real
estate
price
changes
right
in
the
last
one.
B
B
I
guess
I
don't
like
the
start
really,
because
it
has
changed
a
lot
since
then,
but
some
refer
to
it
as
hard
money
right
because
it,
I
think
the
the
space
originated
in
in
the
90s
with
people
lending
out
actual
cash.
I
mean
we
don't
lend
out
actual
cash.
I
mean
the
process
has
institutionalized
and
turned
into
something
very
different
today,
but
in
you
know,
the
research
that
I
did
was
on
like
hard
money
lenders
and
how
did
they
perform
from
2008
to
2013?
B
And
so
you
know
the
the
research
that
I
found
and
there's
not
a
huge
amount
of
you
know.
This
data
does
not
necessarily
get
reported
anywhere
on
the
research
that
I
found
that
I
have
links
to.
I
believe
I
put
it
on
the
forum,
and
I
could
share
it'll-
be
shared
in
this
presentation
as
well-
is
that
the
overall
defaults
were
averaging
around
one
percent
in
in
that
time
frame
in
the
hard
money
lenders
that
were
able
to
find
through
the
research.
B
However,
also
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
the
situation
is
quite
different
today
than
it
was
in
2008
and
the
crisis.
The
situation
that
precipitated
that
crisis
in
2008
was
rap.
You
know:
speculation
in
the
real
estate
market,
bad
underwriting
and
various
processes
like
appraisals
that
were
communicating
directly
with
the
borrowers
and
and
sort
of
increasing
price.
You
know,
based
on
the
demand
of
the
borrower
and
underwriters
and
and
brokers,
kind
of
all
playing
the
same
game
to
increase
price
and
continue
to
originate
mortgages.
B
Much
much
looser,
underwriting
standards,
they're
quite
different
today,
right
again
in
the
consumer
world,
these
types
of
mortgages
for
the
most
part
don't
exist.
Appraisers
no
longer
talk
to
talk
directly
to
borrowers.
Everybody
uses
an
appraisal
management
company
as
we
do
as
well,
and
so
you
know
the
situation
is
quite
different
and
also
on
the
housing
supply
right
at
the.
B
During
that
crisis
I
found
the
housing
supply
was
around
nine
to
12
months,
whereas
today
it's
way
below
six
months,
so
it's
probably
around
two
to
three
months
on
the
average,
so
the
supply
is
much
much
tighter.
You
know
that
is
not
necessarily
a
good
thing.
How
so
I'm
just
trying
to
paint
a
picture
that
the
situation
is
very
different
today,
but
even
with
the
the
defaults
that
occurred
in
2008
to
2013,
our
research
shows
that
we're
they
were
right
around
one
percent.
B
So
we
think
you
know
at
the
moment
that
the
lack
of
supply
will
continue
to
drive
price
appreciation
or
price
stability
right.
So
you
know
we
don't
necessarily
think
that
prices
are
going
to
continue
to
go
up
like
they
did
last
year,
but
they
will
and-
and
you
know
most
predictions
show
that
they're
going
to
continue
to
go
up.
B
You
know
a
little
bit
more,
but
we're
hoping
for
a
slow
down
on
price
appreciation,
and
you
know
sort
of
price
stability
coming
in
towards
the
latter
part
of
the
year
and
housing
certainly
has
become
a
lot
less
affordable
and
especially
with
the
rising
mortgage
rates.
It
is
you
know
it's
even
less,
affordable
right,
because
you
know,
I
believe,
for
every
hundred
thousand
dollars.
The
average
is
something
like
like
I'm
sorry
for
every
one
point
increase,
I
want
to
say
it's
something
like
250
dollars
for
extra
per.
B
You
know,
banks
have
also
loosened
some
of
their
underwriting
standard.
We
keep
a
close
eye
on
that
and
they
have
loosened
some
of
their
underwriting
status.
However,
they're
still
not
even
close
to
where
they
were
in
the
pre-2008
levels.
We
also
pay
attention
to
the
remodeling
activities.
So
this
is
something
that
the
harvest
joint
center
for
housing
studies
puts
out
once
a
quarter.
B
So
this
is
the
chart
to
the
right,
and
we
see
the
projections
from
you
know
q1,
which
just
ended
here
into
you,
know
q2
3
and
four.
So
we
see
that
you
know
things
are
starting
to
slow
down
towards
at
least
the
expectation
of
things
starting
to
slow
down
towards
the
latter
part
of
the
year.
There's
two
different
types
of
projections,
redline
and-
and
the
charts
here-
are
two
different
types
of
projections
and
I'll
have
a
link
over
to
the
study.
B
It's
it's
actually
right
here,
but
you
know
you
guys
could
check
that
out
as
well.
So
we
we
think
about
the
the
remodeling
projections
as
a
sort
of
a
leading
indicator
of
where
things
may
stand
with
the
construction
activity
that
our
borrowers
undertake
and
when
when
when
and
if
there's
a
slowdown
expected.
B
So
so
what
are
our
thoughts
and
actions?
And
what
have
we
done
and
what
are
we
thinking
about
doing
so
again,
as
I
mentioned
before,
we,
we
don't
necessarily
anticipate
real
estate
prices
to
decrease
over
the
next
12
months.
So
we're
not
you
know,
because
our
our
loans
are
typically
12
months
in
duration.
The
average
payback
is
is
right
around
five
months
as
of
right
now,
so
we're
kind
of
projecting
for
the
next
12
months
months
out.
B
We're
not
in
the
subprime
category
we're
we're
in
the
prime
category,
but
we're
tightening
this
up
even
even
more
to
you
know,
to
to
sort
of
anticipate
any
potential
issues,
we're
also
decreasing
the
loan
to
cost
on
heavy
constru
on
heavy
rehab
loans
from
285
percent
from
90
for
for
non-institutional
level,
borrowers,
so
institutional
level
for
us
means
when
someone
has
done
10
or
more
projects
in
the
past
36
months.
So
you
know
so
this
is
going
to
affect
the
vast
majority
of
the
borrowers,
so
we're
going
to
go
down
85.
B
We
also
have
this
profitability
test
that
we
we've
been
using.
You
know
from
day
one,
but
we're
now
kind
of
tightening
up
a
little
bit
as
well
and
putting
in
a
five
percent
potential
correction
on
the
pricing.
So
the
profitability
test
is
essentially
us.
Looking
at
the
project,
the
loan,
the
construction
costs
and
the
after
rehab
value
that
the
appraisers
give
us
and
then
figuring
out,
if
there's
enough
cushion
in
there
for
the
project
to
be
profitable
right.
So
we
want.
We
want
our
borrowers.
B
The
ability
to
you
know
to
make
at
least
you
know
ten
thousand
dollars,
or
you
know
hopefully
higher.
I
mean
I
think
the
average
is-
is
around
60
70
000
throughout
the
country
put
out
by
adam,
which
is
a
data
analytics
company
in
the
real
estate
space,
but
we
want
we
want
them
to
be
able
to
have
a
profit
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
when
we
look
at
this
profit
we're
putting
in
this
five
percent
potential
correction
and
that's
kind
of
how
we
look
at
it.
B
You
know
going
forward
we're
also
paying
close
attention
to
material
pricing.
Obviously,
some
of
the
materials
have
doubled
in
in
price.
The
price
per
square
foot
is
has
gone
up
significantly.
The
borrowers
provide
us
budgets.
We
review
those
closely
to
make
sure
that
there
is
the
materials
are
priced,
approximately
correct
and
we
can't
price
it
to
the
exactly.
But
we
look
at
the
budgets
and
we
make
sure
that
the
pricing
is
is
valid
and
then
there's
some
cushion
in
there.
B
You
know
we
want
to
see
a
line
item
that
says
you
know
unanticipated
costs
and
then
there's
some
percentage
and
alex
can
probably
expand
on
that
a
little
bit
more.
He
has
those
numbers,
if
you
guys
have
questions
there
and
then
last
last,
but
not
least,
and
the
changes
that
we're
making
is
we're.
Thinking
about.
You
know
other
ways
that
our
potential
borrowers
can
exit
right.
So
traditionally
we
land
for
12
months
they
do
their
renovations
and
they
resell
to
a
consumer,
or
sometimes
they
resell
to
to
another
real
estate
investor.
B
That's
gonna
essentially
convert
that
property
into
a
rental
unit,
or
sometimes
they
refinance
themselves
and
then
convert
that
property
into
a
rental
unit
that
they
can
get
tenants
and
and
make
money
that
way
and
by
the
way,
when
we
look
at
the
profitability
test.
If
we
know
that
they're
going
to
be
doing
that,
then
we
look
to
make
sure
that
they
can
get
that
kind
of
a
loan.
B
You
know
an
investment
property
loan
potentially
and
then
that
the
investment
property
makes
sense
that
there's
some
kind
of
a
capitalization
return
on
that
property
when
they
turn
it
into
a
rental
unit.
We
know
the
average
rental
prices
for
this
type
of
property
in
the
marketplace.
So
we
look
at
that.
But,
aside
from
this
we're
also
talking
to
a
couple
of
partners,
one
of
them
is
lofty
ai
and
the
other
one
is
roof
stock.
B
They
have
slightly
different
models,
but
lofty
essentially
fractionalizes
and
sells
those
fractions.
You
know
as
essentially
fractional
ownership,
so
they
take
single-family
homes
around
the
country.
I
think
they've
done
over
a
hundred
or
hundreds
of
these
types
of
properties
and
they're
they're
also,
you
know
blockchain
enabled
I
think
they
work
on
the
on
the
algorithm
blockchain,
and
so
they
take
those
properties
and
they
turn
them
into
fractional
ownership
shares
and
they
sell
those
tokens
to
investors,
and
then
they
provide
them.
B
A
return
from
the
rental
income
on
those
properties
and
the
roof
stock
essentially
takes
the
whole
property
and
they
sell
them
to
one
investor,
and
then
they
can.
They
do
property
management
and
and
other
things
so
we're
talking
to
these
two
and
then
we
have
a
couple
others
on
the
horizon.
That
will
provide
sort
of
a
quote,
unquote
wholesale
channel
for
our
borrowers
us
even
at
the
start
of
the
loan.
B
We
could
give
this
borrower
a
potential
pricing
on
the
property
that
they
may
sell
and
even
go
as
far
as
to
sign
a
purchase
and
sale
agreement
for
a
finished
product
before
they
even
start
their
work.
Obviously,
there's
going
to
be
conditions,
time
frames
things
like
that,
but
they'll
give
them
some
certainty
to
exit
you
know.
B
That
so
I'll
touch
on
just
sort
of
the
new
silver
planning
for
future,
and
then
we
could
take
questions.
So
we
we
signed
a
20
million
dollar
term
sheet
for
a
mezzanine
facility,
with
an
institutional
investor,
2
billion
plus
aum
investor.
That's
going
to
help
us
essentially
scale.
Our
you
know,
our
our
our
pool
and
hopefully
increase
the
debt
ceiling
would
make
her
down
they're
going
to
come
in
as
at
the
mass
level.
B
So
we're
we're
still
structuring
that,
but
that
we've
done
this
quite
recently
we're
continuing
to
grow
our
team.
I
think
we're
up
to
15
people
now
we're
hiring
for
key
roles
and
underwriting
and
low
management,
loan
processing,
post,
close
things
like
that.
So
we'll
have
you
know
we're
continuing
to
institutionalize,
and
you
know
improve
the
process
that
we
have
today
we're
also
working
on
some
green
initiative
initiatives
still
kind
of
in
in
fairly
early
stages.
B
A
Yeah,
thank
you
for
the
the
wide
overview.
There
is
very
interesting
to
see
how
your
team
is
proactively
looking
at
the
market
and
and
making
those
corrective
changes.
The
the
first
question
that
I
have
would
be
related
to
the
credit
score.
Tightening
that
seems
to
me,
like
a
you,
know,
good
indicator
that
you
guys
are
maturing
as
the
market
improves.
Do
you
see
the
opportunity
to
take
on
more
risk,
then?
Is
that
time
frame
12
months
out
that
you're,
seeing
and
or
would
that
potentially
be
longer?
A
B
So
how
long
is
that
gonna?
Is
that
gonna?
Last
I
mean
our
salaries
are
our
disposable
income?
Is
gonna
gonna
increase
and
catch
up
a
little
bit
with
what
the
housing
costs
are?
We're
not
certain,
but
I
think
for
the
for
the
short
term
right.
We
want
to
be
where
we
are
today.
I
think
that
you
know,
with
the
new
credit
scores.
B
I
think
that
our
vision
is
to
be
as
competitive
as
possible
on
the
rates
and
thus
drawing
the
best,
the
most
qualified,
the
most
experienced
borrowers,
and
you
know
and
kind
of
compete
that
way,
rather
than
you
know,
sort
of
continuing
the
downward
trajectory
and
taking
on
more
and
more
risk.
Right,
though,
again
fico
score,
it's
it's
a
great
it's
a
great
indicator.
B
You
know
it's
been
used
for
many
many
years
and
has
gone
through
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
transition,
and-
and
you
know
everybody
in
in
the
in
the
us
still
uses
it,
for
you
know
to
to
offer
credit
when
making
credit,
but
it
could.
It
could
also
change
very
very
quickly
right,
like
if
someone's
got
a
700
score
today
and
they
miss
a
payment.
B
C
Yeah,
I
you
know
just
to
add,
I
mean
not
all
credit
scores
are
created
equal
as
they
say,
so
we
do
a
little
bit.
We
dig
a
little
bit
deeper.
We
look
at
the
actual
credit
report
because
different
agencies
have
different
algorithms.
There
they
score
scored
differently.
We
do
a
tri-merge
pool
which
has
all
three
credits.
C
Sometimes
the
credit
gets
dropped
down
because
of
high
debt
utilization,
which
we
see
a
lot
from
the
contractors
that
use
their
own
credit
cards
to
kind
of
buy
materials
up
front
and
then
pay
at
the
end
of
the
month.
So
you
can
have
a
100
point
swing
from
the
beginning
of
the
months
until
the
end
of
the
month
when
the
bills
get
paid.
So
we
look
at
that
also,
but
you
know
we
look
at
other
things
in
combination
to
make
a
decision.
C
You
know
experience
project
itself
and,
and
you
know,
location,
many
other
factors
will
pull
a
lot
of
data
in
every
project,
including
the
the
location
and
the
even
the
census
data,
so
that
all
plays
part
in
the
decision
making.
But
you
know
there
have
been
so
many
studies
done
on
credit
analysis
and
you
know
categorizing
these
credit
scores.
I
I
mean.
I
think
that
that
650
is
anywhere
from
620
to
650
is
where
the
the
prime,
you
know.
B
Yeah
and
one
other
thing
I
want
to
mention
the
650
credit
score,
the
studies,
I've
seen
and
again
it's
difficult
because
there's
different
asset
classes,
you
know
an
unsecured
loan
is
very
different.
Right
like
it
is
someone
going
to
repay
an
unsecured
loan
over
a
collateralized
loan
that
they
may
lose.
You
know
a
lot
of
money
that
they
put
into
it
a
lot
of
work
as
well.
You
know,
we
don't
know
right,
we
don't
know
each
individual
is
thinking,
but
the
650
credit
score
seems
to
be
like
where
things
drastically
change
right
so
like.
B
If
you
look
below
650,
the
repayments
are
very
different,
like
the
default
rates
tend
to
go
up
like
10
to
almost
double
from
the
650
and
above
so
we
think
650
is
that
is
that
floor
and
again
you
know
there
might
might
be
some
some
cases
where
in
you
know
this
650
can
be
can
be.
You
know
there
could
be
an
exception
done
for
for
a
specific
borrower,
but
that's
we
think.
That's
where
the
the
average
should
be.
A
D
What's
up
guys
thanks
for
the
presentation
that
was
really
well
done
to
kind
of
follow
up
on
retro's
question
regarding
credit
scoring,
I
agree,
love
to
see
that
things
are
tightening
a
bit
as
kind
of
risk
and
volatility
increases.
That's
the
way
to
do
it
in
terms
of
this
line
in
the
sand,
between
quote
unquote,
borrowers
with
experience
and
without
what's
the
science
behind
that.
B
Yeah
I
mean
I
I
can
I'd
say
a
few
words
I
mean
I
it.
There
is
not
hard
science
honestly
behind
that.
You
know
we've
kind
of
looked
at
what
our
competition
is
doing
and
what
we've
done
through
the
past
couple
years-
and
you
know
experience-
does
play
a
part
in
in
in
how
people
can
potentially
execute
these
projects
right,
but
it's
also
kind
of
subjective
right.
So
somebody
was
a
you
know,
a
subcontractor
on
a
specific
project.
You
know,
but
they
they
have
an
overall
business
sense.
B
Maybe
they
they
started
business
in
school
or
maybe
they're
just
business
savvy
right.
Are
they
able
to
execute,
as
well
as
somebody
who
has
built
10
projects
themselves
very
likely
so
right,
but
we've
kind
of
chosen
to
delineate
anyone
that
has
done
two
or
more
projects,
and
you
know
counting
them
as
experience
right.
Anyone
with
a
zero
and
one
counting
them
as
not
experienced
and
just
kind
of
being
a
little
bit
more
careful.
B
C
Yeah
I
mean
yeah
like
real
mention
that
it's
very
subjective.
It's
also
based
on
our
experience
with
the
borrowers,
because
we've
seen
you
know
thousands
of
them
already.
We
also
differentiate
between
the
rehab
level
right.
It's
not.
You
know,
rehabbing,
a
property
and
flipping
a
house.
It's
not
rocket
science.
Really
I
mean
most
people
with
the
property
have
done
some
level
of
rehab
in
their
lives
and
they're
very
familiar,
but
it's
a
it's
a
different
type
of
project.
C
If
you're
just
doing
cosmetic,
rehab
or
just
changing,
you
know,
you
know
kitchen
cabinets
or
whatever
from
like
a
full
down
to
the
stud.
You
know
flip
or
a
very
significant
construction.
So
we
do
differentiate
between
those
we.
We
do
have
experience
requirements
for
every
ground
up
construction,
whereas
we
can
work
with
the
first
time
quote-unquote
investors
on
a
lighter
rehab,
but
we
also
look
at
overall.
C
You
know
level
of
you
know
I
I
guess
you
know
success
potential
success.
I
mean
we
even
ask
borrowers
their
education
level
when
they
complete
applications.
I
mean.
If
someone
has
experience-
and
you
know
in
finance
for
example-
then
chances
are,
they
will
be
successful,
but
we
also
on
bigger
projects.
C
We
always
ask
for
contractors
licenses
if
they
work
with
an
outside
contractor,
to
make
sure
the
contractor
has
experience,
because
you
know
you
can
have
investment
experience
on
the
management
side
and
can't
you
know,
use
a
hammer
and
that's
totally
fine
right.
I
mean
we
have
different
level
levels
of
borrowers.
We
have
smaller.
D
C
With
the
husband
and
wife
team,
where
my
wife
is
a
real
estate
agent
and
a
husband
is
a
contractor
and
they
can
do
you
know
one
or
two
side
projects
a
year.
We
have
institutional
level
borrowers
with
like
multiple
crews
that
do
like
five
projects
at
the
time,
and
this
is
their
full-time
business.
So
we
do
look
a
little
bit
deeper
at
this
but
yeah
I
I
haven't
really
seen
any
institutional
level
studies
on
the
data.
D
Yeah
yeah,
that
that
makes
sense
to
me
there's
only
so
much
of
especially
with
something
like
real
estate,
where
it's
it's
really
driven
by
the
people
executing
right
and
part
of
it
is
underwriting
how
those
people
will
execute.
And
that's
just
that's
a
that's
a
human
thing.
It's
not
a
science
thing.
I
guess
the
other
piece
is.
It
strikes
me
that
you
know
when
we
think
about
our
our
leverage
levels
right
with
this
sort
of
loan.
C
Right,
so
I
can
take
that
one
so,
the
we
we
look
all
loan
structured.
The
ltc
really
reflects
to
us,
the
the
skin
in
the
game
for
the
borrower
right,
the
ones
that
are
very,
very
experienced
and
know
what
they're
doing
and
can
budget
better.
We
need
at
least
10
percent
equity
from
the
project.
Cash
equity
up
front,
the
others.
This
is
where
the
85
ltc
reduction
to
comes
in
place.
C
You
know
we
want
more
skin
in
the
game
from
them,
so
that
they're
more
involved,
but
overall,
the
loans
are
structured
based
on
the
arv,
which
is
the
as
repaired
value
for
the
appraisal.
So
we
don't
go
above
75
generally
of
the
arv,
meaning
that
the
total
loan
amount
with
the
construction
cannot
be
above
75
percent
of
the
finished
value.
I
think
our
average
is
below
70
potentially,
but
75
is
the
absolute
max.
So
we
have
a
25
cushion
on
the
valley
built
in
into
the
loan.
C
We,
which
means
that,
even
if
the
market
drops
20
percent,
which
in
reality
on
the
short
short-term
loan
like
this,
it's
very
very
low
probability
of
that
happening.
We
could
still
be
above
water
and
the
loan
amount.
When
then,
we
also
use
the
5
profitability
test
to
make
sure
that
it's
still
profitable.
C
Even
if
you
know
the
the
prices
drop
even
five
percent,
more
from
where
we're
anticipating.
So
I
I
think,
as
far
as
the
risk
we're
well
protected
with
that
75
percent
arv
again,
these
are
not
long-term
consumer
loans.
I
mean
30-year
loans,
10
15-year
loans.
A
lot
can
happen
in
that
time,
but
with
the
you
know,
five
six
months
average
and
the
12
months
max
term.
If
even
if
the
price
is
reduced,
you
know
dropped
by
10
okay,
so
we
still
have
a
15
cushion
left.
C
So
this
is
why
the
kirill
cited
those
statistics
that
you
know:
we've
looked
at
the
big
short-term
bridge
loan
aggregators
with
the
billion
dollar
a
year
volume
and
during
the
very
stressful
time,
even
during
corvette,
they
had
less
than
one
percent,
I
think
defaults
and
they
they,
the
actual
principal
loss,
was
a
fraction
of
that
very
very
little
because
of
those
75
percent
arb
leverages
on
the
short
term
bridges.
So
I
think
I
think
we're
protected
in
those
cases.
D
A
No
questions
currently
in
queue.
If
there
are
any
other
hands,
please
feel
free
to
raise
them
I'll
cut
in
line
real,
quick
before
tiege
unloads.
I
just
want
to
ask
about.
You
said
that
loans
are
typically
about
12
months,
we're
about
at
that
12
month
period,
since
your
first
onboarding.
How
are
you
guys
seeing
borrowers
re-engaging
with
your
team?
Are
you
starting
to
build
a
client
base?
That's
consistently
coming
back
and
yeah
any
comments
about
that
pipeline.
Then.
C
Yeah,
that's
that's
a
big
part
of
of
the
business,
you
know
repeat:
customers.
We
have
a
lot
of
them
and
that's
kind
of
what
the
focus
is
on,
because
this
is
competitive
business.
We
we
built
originally
we've
built
a
process
to
make
it
easier
and
faster
and
more,
you
know
user-friendly
and
that
we
got
a
lot
of
feedback
originally
that
this
is
what
the
borrowers
like
the
most
and
then,
of
course,
the
rates
we
want
to
be
as
competitive
as
possible.
D
C
It's
all
about
how
comfortable
you
are
with
the
process
and
it
the
whole
process
plays
spartan
and
how
fast
we
can.
You
know,
do
the
inspections
for
the
draws
and
release
the
funds.
You
know
in
this
in
this
business
everything
matters,
because
when
the
contractors
have
to
be
paid,
you
can
tell
them.
You
know
tomorrow
tomorrow,
tomorrow
they'll
walk
off
the
job
and
go
somewhere
else
right
now,
especially
so
all
of
that
plays
a
role
in
this,
but
we
do
have
a
lot
of
repeat
customers.
That's
definitely
a
big
part
of
it.
B
C
Yeah
this
this
statistic
really
shows
the
out
of
the
current
batch.
You
know
that,
right
now
how
many
borrowers
with
multiple
loans
are,
I
think,
our
repeat
repeat-
borrow
ratios,
that's
higher
than
20
overall,
like
I
said
not,
everyone
does
multiple
loans
within
a
12
month
period.
They
can
come
back,
you
know
after
12
months,
so
which
a
lot
of
them
do
that,
because
this
is
not
a
full-time
job
for
a
lot
of
our
borrowers.
You
know
they
just
do
it
as
a
side
project
type
of
deal.
A
Got
it
yeah
and
then
a
quick
follow-up
before
happy
to
hand
the
mic
back
over
to
tiege?
Do
you
see
that
as
a
driver
of
increasing
the
surface
surplus
buffer
and
borrowing
from
maker,
or
is
that
just
more
of
something
that
you
count
on
for
stability
and
confidence,
knowing
that
the
the
pipeline
will
be
there?
Is
that
pushing
for
future
growth.
A
B
Probably
both
I
mean
I
would
definitely
like
to
do
business
with
repeat
borrowers,
because
we
get
a
sense
of
how
they
execute
fairly
quickly
right
once
the
loan
is
originated.
Then
they
go
to
us
for
construction
draws.
We
do
inspections,
so
we
immediately
get
a
sense
of
how
well
well
they're
building
how
quickly
are
they
turning
things
around?
How
well
they're
they're
communicating
that
kind
of
stuff?
So
this
is
all
sort
of
you
know,
subjective
relationship,
type
of
stuff
that
is
still
place
heavy
into
into
our
business.
B
So
we
definitely
love
to
do
business
with
repeat
borrowers,
because
if
you
know
we
only
take
on
obviously
ones
that
are,
I
don't
think
we've
had
any
issues
with
with
borrowers.
Coming
back
that
we
weren't
able
to
to
lend
to,
I
think
all
of
our
vp
borrowers
are
ones
that
are
like
really,
you
know
hard
working
and
really,
you
know
understand
what
they're
doing
goal
oriented
and
things
like
that,
but
but
we
also
obviously
have
to
go
out
after
you
know,
go
after
new
business
as
well
to
continue
to.
B
C
Yeah,
no,
we
we
love,
repeat
borrowers,
of
course,
because
it
also
drives
our
costs
down.
We
don't
have
to
spend
money
on
new
new
customer
acquisition
and
we
spend
less
money
on
underwriting
because
we
have
most
of
their.
You
know
documents
on
file
already,
so
it's
a
faster
process
for
us
that
requires
less
money
spent.
But
you
know
when
we
go
after
new
areas
and
advertise
more
than
with
the
hopes
of
create
repeat
borrowers
in
those
areas
as
well.
You
know
so
yeah,
it's
it's
both
of
those.
D
B
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think
we
haven't
studied
the
variable
rate
model.
To
be
honest,
I
think
the
all
of
our
competition
that
we
know
of
the
one-year
loan
is
typically
fixed
right.
So
in
its
interest.
Only
so
you
know,
people
want
to
kind
of
have
a
certainty
of
what
their
costs
are
going
to
be
for
that
one-year
duration.
B
B
Yeah,
it's
just
yeah
yeah
and
then,
as
far
as
the
second
part
of
your
question,
we
like
the
resi
space.
I
think
we,
you
know
we
have.
We
touch
a
little
bit
of
like
multi-family,
slightly
larger
than
40
units.
We
don't
think
that's
going
to
be
the
majority
or
the
driver
of
our
growth.
I
think
what
will
drive
our
growth
is
the
ability
to
execute
quickly
and
efficiently
having
that
certainty
to
execution.
B
So
when
someone
applies,
then
there
you
know,
there's
a
high
certainty
that
they'll
get
what
they
see
that
they're
getting
you
know
we
give
them
the
term
sheet
online
and
things
like
that.
That's
the
technology
that
we
built
and
people
really
love
that
and
obviously
having
you
know,
having
a
very
competitive
rate
and
then
being
able
to
attract
the
best
borrowers
and
the
the
least
risky
business
is,
is
the
other
part
of
it.
C
Yeah
just
to
add
to
that
really
quickly
I
mean
the
the
single
family
per
se.
I
think
it
refers,
and
you
know
in
lending
more
to
like
one
to
four
families.
This
is
all
in
the
same
category
I
mean
we
like
the
space
because
a
it's
a
lot
easier
to
appraise
and
b.
I
think
it's
it's
a
lot
more
predictable
than
some
of
the
others.
I
mean.
I
have
some
commercial
real
estate
experience.
C
A
lot
of
it
actually,
and
I
mean
not
only
commercial
properties-
are
a
lot
harder
to
appraise,
but
there's
a
lot
more
volatility
there.
You
can
have
a
retail
anchor
tenant
that
moves
out
and
you
lost.
You
know
60
of
your
income
for
five
years,
so
it's
impossible
to
appraise
quickly.
We
like
to
use
technology,
we
look
at
a
lot
of
data.
C
B
B
You
know,
and
sometimes
we
can
turn
a
potential
borrower
away
for
you
know,
because
they
don't
communicate
well
or
they're
rude
or
you
know
I
mean
that
could
happen
as
well.
Right
like
we,
but
again
we
want
to
try
to
remove
the
subjectivity
of
our
lending
decisions
and
give
the
in
and
use
as
much
data
as
possible
and
provide
that
certainty.
B
B
Yeah
yeah
we've
chatted
about
this
before
you're
you're.
You
mentioned
you're
familiar
with
that,
so
I
think
that
we,
we
actually
had
a
conversation
on
this
subject.
I
think
just
yesterday,
is
that
you
know
as
we
grow
because
blackstone,
so
I
think
like
as
we're
thinking
about
like
what
are
some
of
these
other
channels
that
we
can
partner
with
to
enable
our
borrowers
to
wholesale
these
properties.
B
In
case
you
know
in
case
they
they
want
to,
or
in
case
the
markets
kind
of
turn
against
them
during
the
time
of
the
construction
right.
So
then
we
have
like
lofty
and
roof
stock
as
a
great
opportunity
for
potential
wholesale,
but
then
you
know
maybe
going
right
up
right
up
the
chain
because,
as
as
we
all
know,
you
know
in
the
financial
markets,
it's
rarely
it's
rarely
that
the
the
counterparties
you
work
with
is
especially
in
real
estate,
and
these
large,
you
know,
multi
you
know,
million
or
multi-billion
dollar
deals.
B
There's
there's
many
people
involved
and
the
money
is
ultimately
usually
not
the
party
that
you're
dealing
with
right.
So
there's
many
many
layers
to
to
the
ultimate.
You
know
the
the
lender
or
the
ultimate
owner
of
those
funds,
so
as
we
grow
our
portfolio
we'll
be
able
to
grow
the
relationships
and
to
the
likes
of
blackstone
or
others,
potentially,
not
our
again,
not
our,
not
necessarily
our
goal
to
wholesale
everything
to
blackstone
and
have
our
fix.
B
Some
flippers
kind
of
you
know
be
be
the
workers
for
for
blackstone,
but
as
a
potential
opportunity
that
that
does
exist
and
continues
to
to
be
there.
I
think
that
you
know
just
personally
for
me
if
I
can
add
one
of
the
reasons
I
like
this.
This
specific
area
of
lending
is
because
we
enable
essentially
mom
and
pop
small,
very
small
businesses.
B
Really
our
borrowers
are,
for
the
most
part,
you
know
blue
collar,
mom
and
pop
type
of
people
that
are
doing
this
either
on
the
side
are
doing
this
as
a
full-time
job
and
and
are
really
able
to
make
a
living.
You
know
by
kind
of
learning
the
business
in
some
cases
trying
you
know
and
kind
of
doing
it
the
right
way,
and
so
that
really
motivates
me
when
I
think
about
this
business,
that
you
know
we're
able
we're
enabling
some
families
to
thrive
and
and
do
better.
B
D
A
You
know
to
say
that
was
a
quick
16
questions,
but
no
in
the
spirit
of
time
we
are
at
the
top
of
the
hour.
I
know
we
started
a
little
late
here,
but
if
there
are
no
other
burning
questions,
what's
the
best
way
for
the
maker
dow
community
to
reach
out
and
engage
with
the
team
if
they
have
any
follow
up.
B
Sure
I
mean
the
forums-
oh
I
I
don't
know
if
you
guys
will
post
the
recording
I'm
happy
to
post
the
presentation
you
know
so
we
could.
I
can
I'm
happy
to
answer
questions
right
in
the
forums
my
contact
is.
I
could
post
my
direct
contact
if
somebody
wants
to
email
us
privately.
Happily
answer
that
way
as
well
and
for
real.
I
think
we
were
talking
about
possibly
doing
a
version
of
this
for
the
century
future
community
sometime
later
in
an
adapted
form.
So
if
there
are.
A
Appreciate
that
shout
out
janiece
so
best
way
to
keep
up
to
date
is
at
forums.
Forum.Makerdow.Com
keep
an
eye
out
for
future
calls
and
engage
with
the
team.
As
questions
pop
up
I'd
like
to
thank
everybody
for
joining
today
and
finding
the
right
call
link
and
we'll
see
you
in
the
forums
thanks
everyone.
Thank
you.