►
Description
Provide the best UX with the right design is crucial for the new products and services, and even more important for new products striving to succeed in a new industry. We discussed with two experts who will share their experience and opinions:
Henry Doe - Head of Design at Maker Foundation
Lili Feyerabend - Freelance Designer, https://www.impermanence.co/
A
A
Welcome
to
our
guest
here
lily
for
our
friday
die
branch
number
three,
and
this
is
a
very
special
edition,
because
we
will
deal
with
a
new
topic
which
is
the
ux
and
design
in
the
web3
space
and
in
particular
in
the
and
so
as
usual,
we
will
start
with
the
the
first
section
of
this
panel
with
this
interview
by
presenting
our
guest
by
letting
our
guests
present
themselves
with
some
icebreaker
questions,
so
I
will
go
ahead
so
present.
Please
guys
present
yourself
in
the
first
place,
your
name
and
your
role,
eri,
please.
C
A
B
I
I
was
working
in
kind
of
fintech
for
like
five
or
ten
years
as
a
designer
in
london
and
really
like
the
the
chance
to
work
in
crypto
and
blockchain
it.
I
was
working
on
a
project
before
maker
to
do
with
lloyds
of
london
and
they
were
considering
moving
like
significant
portions
of
commercial
insurance
paper.
C
Cool
and
for
me,
actually
it's
by
it's
almost
by
accident,
so
me
and
my
my
former
co-founders.
We
pivoted
into
these
days
from
my
last
start-up,
building
an
on-boarding
application
for
hr
and
yeah.
So
I
guess
the
more
interesting
question
would
be
why
I
stayed
right.
It's
also
because
I
would
say
two
points
like
first
my
background.
Apart
from
design,
I
studied
law
and
I
focused
on
cyber
security
law
and
online
privacy
rights.
C
C
A
Question
is
this
thanks
for
your
presentation,
yeah,
your
story
is
very,
it's
very
interesting.
So
is
there
anything
or
anyone
since
I
mean
I
think,
about
designers
like
artists
a
bit
you
know,
so
I
thought
about
these
questions,
which
is
a
is.
Is
there
anything
or
anyone
that
inspires
you,
while
you're
you're
doing
your
job.
C
B
It's
for
me,
the
like,
since
joining
the
space,
the
thing
that
has
definitely
stood
out
and
inspires
me
every
day
of
the
other
people
that
are
in
this
space.
Like
I'm,
I
cannot
believe
like
how
intelligent
passionate
some
of
the
people
are,
who
kind
of
built
some
of
these
projects
and
when
I've
got
to
meet
them
in
person,
it's
remarkable
really.
They
they
do
really
inspire.
B
Inspire
me
to
do
my
job
as
well
as
I
can
and
kind
of
try
and
really
stay
on
the
cutting
edge
of
technology
and
what
is
possible
and
what's
not
possible.
So
yeah,
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
creative
geniuses
that
are
kind
of
around
the
d5
space
and
crypto
space,
and
I
think
like
for
me,
you
see
I've
seen
at
least
this
evolution
where
I
was
like
exposed
to
bitcoin
really
early
on,
and
I
got
to
kind
of
know
the
community
there
and
it
had
this
very
same
ethos.
B
C
Yeah,
I
have
to
agree
with
henry
yeah,
so
my
answer
would
be
that
the
whole
ethereum
community
basically
inspires
me
like,
although
it
is
like,
of
course
inspiring
community,
but
it
is
not
without
flaws.
Right
like
how
many
hacks
and
scandal
we
have
gone
through
and
yeah
we're
still
here.
So
I
think
we
are
like
a
resilient.
Like
you
know
enough,
I
would
say
right
and
also,
for
example,
I
think
this
is
kind
of
like
a
space
of
opportunity
as
well.
A
B
So
it's
probably
because
of
coronavirus,
but
I
was
watching
this
documentary
of
the
day
about
hyenas
and
it
turns
out
they
have
like
the
strongest
social
connection
of
any
animal
and
they
have
like
really
strong
interperso
personal
relationships.
So
perhaps
it's
because
of
like
socially
distance
times,
but
I
definitely
feel
like
I'd,
be
a
hyena
right
now.
C
Okay,
I'd
definitely
be
a
cat,
because
I
have
two
cats
and
I
spend
so
much
time
with
them.
So
I
would
say,
cats
that
are
like
at
least
my
cats.
I
mean
they're,
gentle
and
they're
affectionate
and
you
know
at
the
same
time
they're
super
curious
and
you
know
christian
and
active
and
so
on.
So
I
just
think
I
or
maybe
I
would
say
like
I
want
to
be
a
cat.
C
A
C
A
Yeah,
okay,
so
now
we
can
go
into
the
discussion.
The
main
discussion
with
which,
as
I
told
the
in
the
beginning,
will
be
around
the
importance
of
ux
and
and
design
in
the
web
3,
and
how
these
two
are
some
some
kind
of
weapons
to
to
foster
the
the
success
of
the
five
projects.
So
the
first
question
will
be
for
lily
and
it
is
a
very
general
and
it
is.
How
do
you
think
ux
is
fundamental
for
web
3
and
in
particular
for
defy
a
project.
C
Yeah,
I
think
ux
is
like
it
is
the
fundamental.
I
would
say
it
shouldn't
be
a
feature
right.
It
should
be
the
core,
like
principle
when
you
think
about
building
an
app
and
also
I
have
this
supporting
evidence.
So
from
my
small
research
I
did
earlier
in
2019
on
the
user
perception
of
ethereum
ux,
and
so
the
result
was
clear.
So
back
then
I
was
using
like
a
simple
method
called
best
words
best
word
scaling.
C
So
basically
I
use
it
to
calculate
the
relative
preferences
rather
than
absolute
preferences
from
users
answers
so
that
we
can
realistically
understand
their
opinions
right.
So
the
result
was
quite
like.
According
to
the
survey,
it
was
that,
according
to
users,
perception
the
most
important
reason
that
keep
them
from
using
product
based
on
web3.
C
More
often
is
you
know,
irrelevant
features
and
complicated
ux
rather
than
speed
and
effort
to
kyc,
or
you
know,
afraid
of
losing
private
keys,
which
was
to
me
super
surprising
right,
because,
because
the
the
other
you
know
the
the
last
three,
for
example,
like
a
technical
problems
where,
where
there
are
you
know,
people
are
really
kind
of
focused
on
improving,
but
not
so
many
people
are
not
enough.
People
like
talking
about
the
ux
itself
right,
but
anyway
I
mean
that
that
research
did
like
a
while
ago.
C
So,
however,
like
you
know
now,
there
is
a
problem
of
gas
price.
I
would
be
quite
like
interested
to
also
learn
again,
but
I
mean
even
now,
right
after
this
gas
price
is
super
high.
There
are
still
so
many
people
buying
to
the
network
right.
So
this
is.
This
is
super
clear
that
you
know
yeah
maybe
technical
problems
is,
is
the
least
thing
that
they
would
care
about.
A
C
B
C
I
mean
I
like
distributed
also
on
twitter,
but
also
on
you
know
like
from
person
to
person
like
from
a
friend
or
friend
and
so
on.
So
there
are
also
groups
of
people
at
least
like
some
of
them.
I
don't
know,
like
maybe
10
at
least
who's
like
quite
new
to
crypto.
They
know
a
little
bit,
but
not
very
much
yeah,
but
I
mean
it's
still
kind
of.
B
A
Know
they
don't
know
technicians,
so
this
would
be
even
more
relevant,
and
this
is
very
interesting.
Okay,
then,
I
will
step
a
bit
further
and
I
want
to
ask
harry
this.
So
defy
is
kind
of
a
new
is
a
new
product,
it's
a
new
concept,
and
is
there
some
way
in
which
defy
is
reshaping
the
ux
and
design
paradigms
in
a
meaning
that
you
can't
use?
Obviously,
the
ideas
and
partings
that
you
used
for
web
2.
A
B
But
one
thing
I
think,
that's
really
important
to
bear
in
mind-
is
the
the
fundamental
change
that
goes
when
you
go
from
centralized
to
decentralized
essentially
means
almost
all
of
the
established
or
well-established
patterns
or
a
lot
of
them
from
web
2
are
essentially
out
of
the
window
so
that
they
don't
apply
to
crypto,
or
at
least
perhaps
they
do,
but
you
have
the
ability
to
rethink
the
way
in
which
you
implement
them.
So,
let's
take
like
one
of
the
most
standard
web
to
patterns
right.
B
It's
like
email
and
password
to
log
into
an
application,
but
with
with
with
defile,
see
that
that's
gone
right,
and
if
we
look
again
at
web
2
like
I'm,
I
personally
think
that
the
rate
in
which
design
is
happening
at
d5.
Do
I
want
it
to
go
much
faster.
Of
course
I
do,
but
I'm
also
very
realistic
and
I've
spent
time
studying
and
researching
kind
of
the
different
patterns
and
how
they
emerged
in
both
web
1
and
web
2
and
the
time
they
took.
B
B
But
if
we
look
at
that
as
a
pattern
right
that
now
is
almost
pretty
standard
on
any
application
that
you
use,
but
that
really
took
20
or
30
years
for
that
to
kind
of
get
any
traction
until
facebook
kind
of
adopted
it
and
rolled
it
out.
So
you
know
from
the
birth
of
the
internet
really
to
to
to
the
creation
of
that
pattern
that
we
now
will
take
for
granted.
Is
this
big
leap
up
in
ux
for
the
whole
internet
that
took
a
long
time
to
come
around?
B
So
what
I
see
today
personally
in
d5
is,
I
see
all
of
these
different
projects,
different
wallets,
they're,
all
innovating
and
us
included
on
different
ideas,
trying
out
new
and
different
ways.
So
I
think
that
that
is
like
how
d5
is
reshaping.
Ux
is
that
you
have
this
blank
slate,
so
I
think
anything
is
really
possible
and
I
don't
know
in
five
years
time
I
couldn't
say
with
a
high
degree
of
confidence
like
it
will
be
this
building
block
this
building
block
and
this
building
block.
That
will
be
the
ones
that
will
get
mass
adoption.
B
But
what
I
do
know
is
like
I
was
designing,
obviously
web
2
prior
to
to
jumping
into
d5,
and
it
was
you
know,
you're
really
just
doing
the
same
thing,
but
with
different
colors
and
different
button
shapes
it's
like
here's.
The
login
form,
here's
this
and
with
dfi.
It
really
is
like
this
kind
of
with
d5
design,
this
experimental
phase,
where
it's
like,
hey,
let's
try
and
do
this
for
the
login.
B
Let's
try
and
do
this
or
this
and
yeah,
I
think
we're
seeing
this
kind
of
experimentation
phase,
and
I
think
these
patterns
will
just
take
a
long
time
to
get
established
and
yeah.
So
so
in
that
sense,
I
do
think
that
d5
is
massively
reshaping,
that
the
way
that
we
think
about
design
and
the
way
that
we
think
about
structuring
the
product.
A
Yeah
and
yeah,
as
you
tell
as
you
told
the
also
now
some
web
to
partings
paradigms,
are
not
yet
you
know
fix
the
so
I
mean
also
what
two
is
in
continuous
development
and
what
three
even
more
so
you
you
have
a
lot
of
challenges
in
your
job,
because
you
will
need
to
invent
no
from
scratch.
Basically,
so
I
want
to
ask
you
eric,
which
is
the
the
most
I
mean
the
the
best
challenge
in
your
opinion,
in
your
current
role
that
you
will
face
faced
so
far.
B
Yeah
so
easily
the
biggest
challenge-
I
guess
for
me,
coming
from
web
2
to
into
d5,
has
been
over
the
last
few
years.
The
amount
of
holistic
information
you
need
to
understand
and
know
to
really
execute
your
job.
Well.
So
in
web
2,
again,
we
take
for
granted
a
lot
of
the
problems,
whether
they
be
technical,
economically
incentivized
ones.
They've
already
been
solved
once
you're
at
the
design
phase,
so
really
you're
just
dealing
with
how
to
get
a
user
from
a
to
b
and
help
them
solve
their
problem.
B
But
in
d5
right,
like
I
think,
to
be
a
good
d5
designer
product
builder
engineer,
you
don't
just
need
to
know
what
it.
What
what
it
is
that
you'll
be
contributing.
You
need
to
understand,
like
the
economic
incentives,
you
need
to
understand
like
the
technical
side
of
how
things
work,
and
I
don't
I
don't
program
personally,
but
I've
done
some
deep
dives
into
kind
of
understanding
how
a
lot
of
that
world
works
and
spending
time
with
the
smart
contract
developers.
B
So
I
think
for
me:
that's
that's
the
most
challenging
thing
and
something
that
I
think
you're
really
suited
to
if
you're
passionate
for
the
space,
because
you'll
spend
the
time
learning
those
things
like,
I
don't
see
it
as
like
a
challenging
and
difficult
thing.
I
I
enjoy
doing
that.
I
enjoy
reading
like
books
about
things
that
fall
outside
of
my.
You
know
circle
of
comfort
and
learning
those
things,
but
I
think
if
you're
yeah,
if
you're
passionate
for
the
space,
then
then
you'll
learn
those
things
really.
B
A
I
mean
in
whichever
area
you
work,
you
need
to
be
informed
and
you
need
to
always
learn
something.
Every
day
I
mean
it's
a
continuous
learning,
and
this
is
the
challenge,
what
the
challenge
and
the
and
the
fascinating
thing
of
working
in
this
space.
I
think
so
next
question
is
for
lily
and
and
is
related
to
the
discussion,
because
it's
do
you
think
that
working
in
the
blockchain
as
a
designer
is
harder
than
working
as
a
designer.
In
another
space
like
web
2,
or
I
mean
fintech
in
general.
C
So
yes,
because
the
products
build
on
blockchain
are
like
henry
already
mentioned,
like
kind
of
usu,
usually
more
complicated
and
for
designers,
we
need
to
constantly
update
ourselves
right
and
also
one
of
our
goals
is,
I
would
say,
to
make
users
like
use
it
like.
You
know
as
less
effortlessly
as
possible,
and
we
also
want
them
to
understand
the
whole
concept.
And-
and
perhaps
you
know
like
all
these
pros
and
cons
like
going
through
the
app
right.
So
we
try
to
protect
that
privacy
and
we
try
to
not
hide
like
anything
like
weird.
C
You
know
yeah
and
no
also,
because,
basically
I
I
have
a
friend
like
my
very
good
friend
she's,
currently
working
for,
like
some
health
tech
applications
and
it's
also
very,
very
difficult,
so
she's
been
you
know,
doing
all
the
tests,
because,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
red
tapes
around
it
and
so
on
so
forth,
so
she's
been
doing.
I
think
the
test
for,
like
I
don't
know,
learning
studying
for
like
two
three
months
in
a
job
already.
C
A
And
I
mean-
and
I
think
it's
again
if
you
are
passionate
of
of
something
it's
even
it's
easier
you
know
to
to.
I
mean
it's
also
funny,
so
it's
easy
to
to
work
for
something
that
you
you
love.
So
as
harry
said
before,
and
I
I
would
I
wouldn't,
I
would
not
enjoy
to
do
marketing
for
fridges
or
I
don't
know
trucks,
because
I
don't
care
about.
B
A
A
B
A
B
Yeah
100,
I
think
I
think
also,
though,
to
bear
in
mind
with
that.
I
think
I've
seen
a
lot
of
people
in
this
space
also
burn
themselves
out
on
that
narrative.
So
it's
like
you,
end
up
spending
so
much
and
committing
so
much
time
and
effort
to
these
projects
that
you
don't
you
don't
ever
get
any
kind
of
you
don't
get
any
time
to
kind
of
step
away
and
really
reflect
on
the
stuff
that
you've
built
and
yeah.
B
I
have
also
seen
a
lot
of
people
just
kind
of
work
too
hard
in
a
sense
and
burn
themselves
out.
So
I
think
that's
also
important
to
bear
in
mind.
Is
that
again
I
see
this
as
a
marathon,
not
a
sprint,
and
it
if
we
really
want
this
this
space
to
evolve.
The
way
we
want
to.
I
think
we
need
to
be
here
for
the
long
run
so
yeah.
A
Yeah,
I
agree
completely
in
italy.
This
mentality
is
not
existing,
but
fortunately
I
don't
work
anymore
for
an
italian
company.
Okay,
then,
the
the
another
question
is
in
my
in
my
mind,
it's
very
interesting
because,
as
I
said
before,
I
think
about
you
guys
as
a
like
a
an
art
artist.
No,
so
I
want
to
know
which
is
your
mental
process
for
when
you,
when
you
receive
a
task,
you
know
design
these.
A
B
Do
two
things
I'll,
firstly,
have
to
understand
like
a
lot
of
the
different
stakeholder
requirements
so
like
what
are
the
smart
contract
limitations
or
what
can
we
do
there
and
what
considerations
do
we
have
there?
So
it's
understanding,
firstly,
that
any
legal
implications,
but
then
the
third
thing
and
most
important
is
go
and
talk
to
the
customers
which
problem
we're
going
to
solve
for
so
really
understanding
what
their
kind
of
problem
is
and
what
their
pain
point
is
and
how
we
can
address
that.
B
Like
the
background
information
talking
to
customers
and
really
I'm
not
structuring
this
in
any
particular
way
like
I'll,
do
it
on
chat
with
just
various
different
people,
who,
I
think
would
be
stakeholders
in
in
these
projects,
then
the
third
thing
I
do
yeah
is
then
sketch
out
some
different
ideas
and
wireframe
things,
and
then
only
at
that
point
will
I
then
go
and
look
at
the
competitive
landscape
and
decide
how
other
people
are
treating
this
problem,
because
I
always
think
there's
this
like.
Like
follow
a
leader
mentality.
B
It
always
happens
in
design
like
one
person
creates
one
thing
and
it
has
like
a
high
degree
of
execution
and
it
looks
nice.
Everyone
is
then
drawn
to
that
like
for
what
they
should
be
doing
themselves,
and
I
think
it
leaves
this
big
gap
where
it's
like.
You
can
actually
experiment
a
lot
more,
but
you
need
to
not
look
at
what
someone
else
is
doing
before
you
kind
of
get
your
ideas
out
there
first.
B
A
Good-
and
you
mentioned
that,
of
course
you
would
take-
I
mean
you
look
around
for
inspiration
by
other
other
projects
or
but
my
question
is
I:
I
will
ask
it
to
really
when
you,
when
you
look
around
for
competitors
or
the
market
in
general,
do
you
only
look
at
designs?
From
the
same
I
mean
blockchain
space
blockchain
projects,
or
they
were
three
projects
or
in
general.
You
can
get
inspiration
also
from
completely
different.
For
example,
I
don't
know
a
makeup
website
or
something.
C
Like
this
yeah
me
right
yeah,
I
definitely
I
look
beyond
blockchain.
Definitely
because
also
I,
I
would
also
totally
agree
with
henry
with
all
the
process
that
he
did.
Basically,
I
also
did
kind
of
very,
very
similar
yeah
and,
I
would
say,
like
there
are
also
a
lot
of
things
that
we
could
learn
from
from
web
2
right
also
like
good
things
and
bad
things
that
we
that
we
could
kind
of
you
know
bring
it
over
and
think
about
it
and
prove
it.
C
Is
that
this
ux,
that
they
call
the
dark
pattern
right?
So
basically
it's
the
kind
of
ux
where
it's
it's
coming
from
the
book.
I
think
also
kind
of
the
whole
paradigm
from
from
this
book
that
this
guy
wrote
called
steve
krug.
I
think
his
book
is
called.
Don't
make
me
think
right.
So,
basically,
don't
don't
make
me
think
so
it's
a
kind
of
like
you
know
how
the
designers
should
design
ux
where
people
don't
actually
think
about.
C
Like
you
know,
you
can't
just
do
it
instinctively,
which
is
sometimes
it's
also
quite
kind
of
you
know
it's
handy
right,
it's
easier
to
use
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
but
it's
also
taking
away
some
sort
of
some
certain
level
of
realization
that
you
say:
okay,
you
need
to
also
you
know
not
just
giving
your
data.
You
also
need
to
know
what
it
is
working
behind
right
or
you
know.
C
How
can
you,
like,
I
don't
know,
be
more
conscious
about
your
decision,
for
example
and
yeah,
so
I
mean
I
would
say
that
I
I
usually
look
like
both
like
bad
and
good
examples,
and
I
and
I
try
to
apply
it
here
and
try
to
somehow
make
it
better.
But
of
course
it's
also
not
just
depending
on
me
right
as
a
designer.
It's
also
depending
on
the
the
technology
like
like,
underneath
this
like
as
well
so
yeah.
B
I
think
there's
an
interesting
point
as
well.
There
like,
when
I
think
about
inspiration
for
the
for
the
space
and
where
I
draw
it
from
to
me
like
there's,
there's
this
area
where
it's
like
blockchain
isn't,
like
anything,
that's
existed
before
right,
so
the
the
analogies
that
we
can
pull
and
the
analogous
as
we
can
look
at
they
they
aren't
relevant.
I
don't
think
always
so
if,
if
let's
say
I'm
going
to
create,
I
don't
know
a
website
for
a
coffee
shop
or
something
the
aesthetic
like
there's
a
very
clear
aesthetic.
B
You
would
have
like
some
random
person,
sipping
a
coffee
outside
a
shop
like
a
lot
of
that
brand.
Aesthetic
is
kind
of
built
into
the
space
that
you're
already
in
and
a
lot
of
spaces
are
very
well
defined
in
the
sense
that,
like
you,
would
use
certain,
like
imagery
certain
patterns,
certain,
like
textures,
to
kind
of
indicate
the
space
that
you're
in
right,
but
with
with
blockchain
we're
really
not
we.
B
We
don't
have
that
and
that's
great
like
we
have
this
like
wide
open
field,
where
I
think
like
again,
exploration
and
experimentation
is
like
really
the
driving
thing.
So
I
don't
want
someone
to
come
to
a
d5
project
and
look
at
it
and
go
oh
that
looks
like
a
bank
or
like
oh,
that
looks
like
x,
because
it
really
is
like
this
new
thing.
B
So
when
I
draw
like
when
I'm
looking
for
inspiration
when
we're
thinking
in
terms
of
brand
and
stuff,
I
tend
to
draw
more
inspiration
from
like
the
art
world
I've
this.
I
just
posted
a
link
to
an
illustrator
who
we
really
love
at
maker
and
there's
actually
this
artist,
I
really
like
who's
cuban,
it's
like
really
into
nature,
but
yeah.
B
So
really
for
me,
it's
about
yeah,
not
not
having
my
not
being
too
rooted
in
any
one
kind
of
brand,
aesthetic
and
really
thinking
more
exploratory
about
it.
I
think
a
lot
of
the
ai
projects
that
execute
very
well
also
do
a
good
job
of
this.
If
you
go
to
like
open
ai's
website,
for
example,
you
don't
arrive
there
and
think.
Oh,
this
looks
like
x,
you
just
go.
This
is
weird.
A
The
first
one
I
mean
you
guys
here,
then
the
first
one
is
when
design
designing
a
fortified
products.
So
do
you
take
inspiration
from
fintech
products
that
are
already
doing
a
great
job
in
ux,
and
this
is
from
nayat?
I
don't
know
who
guys
want
to
answer
to
this.
I
think
maybe
heavily,
because
I
already
asked
about
inspiration
to
lily.
B
Yeah
for
sure
so
so
I
think
I
think,
on
the
brand
thing,
as
I
mentioned,
like
we
don't
tend
to
take
too
much
inspiration
from
fintech,
because
we
don't
want
to
be
overlaid
the
fintech,
but
for
sure
design
is
not
just
about
creating
aesthetic
right.
It's
also
about
the
actual
practicalities
of
of
the
ux
and
getting
people
through
applications.
B
So
in
that
sense,
yes,
we
take
a
lot
of
inspiration
from
fintech
and
I
think
specifically,
one
area
that
that
they
do
a
good
job
in
is,
like
this
hand,
holding
process
so
once
you're
on
boarding
into
a
fintech,
whether
it
be
like
a
new
bank
or
some
like
investment
thing
like
robin
hood.
They
do
do
a
good
job
of
two
things,
firstly,
being
very
direct
and
very
clear
about
what
it
is.
B
B
A
C
Yeah
yeah,
I
can't
answer
this.
I
think
yeah
I
mean
it
yes
and
no
again
right.
It's
it's
basically,
yeah,
of
course
it's
it's
unfriendlier
when
you
compare
to
the
web
tool,
but
it's
also
because,
like
henry
said
right,
web
2
is
now
super
user
friendly.
Now
it's
just
because
it's
it's!
You
know
this
kind
of
like
a
fruit
of
all
this
experiment,
and
you
know
development
in
the
past.
I
don't
know
two
decades
at
least
right,
two,
three
two
and
a
half
decades,
for
example
yeah.
C
C
So,
basically,
you
have
something
that
exists
before
teach
you
that
oh
it's
okay,
100
to
rely
on
the
company
that
you
know
build
the
app,
which
is
I
mean
it
makes
sense,
because,
because
all
these,
like
big
institutions,
like
banks
or
even
governments
or
you
know,
a
lot
of
all
these
also
big
apps
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
they
exist
because
they
there
is.
There
are
a
solution
to
fix
this
information,
asymmetry
right
between
users
and
people.
Let's
say
in
the
sense
of
you
yeah,
let's
say:
let's
say
back
right.
C
Like
I
mean
I
want
to
invest
something,
but
I
have
like
very
limited
amount
of
money,
and
then
there
are
some
companies
that
would
like
to
get
more
money,
like
you
know,
like
fund
their
companies
right.
But
like
me
as
an
individual
person
who
has
like
a
job-
and
you
know,
I
have
to
take
care
of
my
cats
and
everything.
How
do
I
have
enough
time?
You
know
to
check
all
the
the
choices
available.
So
I,
of
course
relying
on
this
intermediary
to
kind
of
help
me
right.
C
Also,
facebook,
as
well
like
I've,
been
moving
like
living
in
in
many
countries,
so
I
would
like
to
keep
in
touch
with
friends
you
know,
but
who
are
those
friends
who,
like
more
relevant
in
the
feed
that
I
supposed
to
know
right?
I
have
like
about
a
thousand
friends,
so
I
should
see
all
of
them
happening
at
once,
for
example,
so
they
kind
of
do
kind
of
distill
diligence
for
us,
but
then,
but
then
one
thing
that
has
gone
wrong
right.
C
It
was
because
they're
actually
providing
this
service,
which
is,
of
course,
very,
very
useful,
but
then,
but
then
now
you
know,
since
we
kind
of
like
rely
on
them
hundred
percent
they're
like
abusing
that
our
trust
right,
because
they're,
like
you,
know,
start
doing
something
under
the
hood.
Without
our
consent
selling
our
information,
we
didn't
even
know-
or
you
know
it's
kind
of
opaque-
they
have
this
tnc,
which
would
take
me
a
lifetime
to
read
all
of
them.
C
You
know
also
all
these
things
that
is
kind
of
coming
from
this
friendliness
that
we
thought
right
that
we
thought
oh
this
is
this:
is
the
standard
right
there's
something
that
is
going
beyond
it,
especially
if
you
know
like
make
us
you
know,
making
more
effort
on
doing
something
is
is
considered
unfriendly,
but
then
I
would
say,
like
you
know,
taking
extra
responsibility
for
something
that
actually
matters
to
you.
Maybe
the
process
could
be
slower.
C
Maybe
you
have
to
do
a
few
more
clicks,
but
if
it's
kind
of
slow
things
down,
you
know
it's
actually
not
bad.
I
would
have
to
say,
like
one
thing,
that
I'm
really
kind
of
get
a
little
bit
scared.
These
days
are
like
there's
this,
I
think
also
on
paypal
or
several
apps,
where
you
can
do
like
one
click
and
you
can
buy
stuff,
you
can
buy
stuff
like
so
easily
online
right
before
I
have
to
like
kind
of
confirm,
maybe
two
times
and
stuff
like
that.
A
C
A
Yeah
but
okay,
thanks
guys
for
your
answers.
There
are
two
more
questions
and
then
we
will
show
your
works
live.
So
let
let's
answer
to
these
questions
from
amy,
both
one
of
them.
We
already
covered
a
bit,
but
maybe
we
can
answer
again.
So
what
are
some
of
the
common
ux
patterns
that
more
the
five
products
should
adopt
and
what
are
some
that
you
wish
would
would
go
away.
A
B
Yeah,
I
think,
there's
I
think,
there's
definitely
an
opportunity
for
more
projects
to
get
a
lot
of
traction
by
really
experimenting
with
different
ways
of
doing
stuff.
And
what
I
mean
by
that
is
the
space
is,
is
obviously
like.
I
said,
really
early
right.
So
if
we
adopt
on
some
of
our
projects,
some
quite
drastic
ux
changes
that
might
not
necessarily
be
so
great
for
our
users,
because
we
have
like
a
decent
chunk
of
them
already
used
to
doing
things
a
certain
way.
B
So
I
think
there's
this
opportunity
for
smaller
projects
to
really
kind
of
really
experiment
with
like
just
crazy
ideas
and
see
how
things
work
in
production
so
like
when
we're
talking
about
logging
into
a
d5
app,
like,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
that
can
be
done
there,
a
lot
that
can
be
kind
of
explored
and
experimented.
And
I
don't,
I
think,
we'll
all
look
back
in
like
five
years
when
some
of
these
patterns
are
more
established
and
they'll
look
obvious
at
the
time,
but
I
think
now
they
don't
look
obvious
going
forward.
B
So
I
think
what
I
would
like
to
see
is
just
more
open
exploration
in
the
space
on
kind
of
design,
ideas
and
design
patterns,
and,
like
I
mean
like
weird
stuff
like
I
don't
I
don't.
I
can't
think
of
anything
on
the
top
of
my
head,
but
yeah
like
I
know.
I
know
this.
Isn't
that
weird,
but
I
know
cleo,
one
of
the
the
stable
coin
projects
are
doing
something:
tethering
your
mobile
phone
to
your
your
mobile
phone
number
to
your
your
wallet,
so
that
becomes
kind
of
your
link.
B
A
B
I
think,
in
order
to
be
successful
in
doing
it,
it's
not
it's
not
the
effort
of
a
designer
really
it's
it's
a
combination
of
designer
smart
contracts,
team,
a
marketing
team,
because
you
really
need
to
understand
like
the
full
stack
of
like
how
is
someone
going
to
interact
with
this
like?
What
can
we
innovate
on
the
back
end?
What
can
we
innovate
on
the
front
end?
How
are
we
going
to
communicate
this?
What
real
world
analogous?
Can
we
pull
in
so
that
people
understand
what
this
pattern
is?
So
I
do
think
yeah.
A
Yeah
yeah,
I
agree.
I
completely
agree.
I
mean
if
the
design
is
super
cool,
but
then
it
doesn't.
If
I
click
it
doesn't
work,
then
I
mean
this
is
not
the
the
the
cure
for
success,
and
the
next
question
is
okay
from
nyat.
How
can
we
bring
mass
adoption
to
define
if
we
don't
take
similar
mental
models
that
people
currently
have
request
2.,
so
I
think
yeah.
The
question
is
people
just
got
used
to
web
2,
designs
and
ux?
A
C
Yeah
I
can
take
that.
I
think
it's
really
possible
right.
I
think
what
we
are
discussing
right
now
is
perhaps
a
speed.
I
mean
if
you
use
the
exact
same
pattern,
the
thing
that
I
already
know.
So,
of
course
I
would
say
that
option
will
be
faster,
but
on
the
other
hand,
when
you
really
look
around,
I
think
the
you
know
the
people
who
made
up
the
society
nowadays
and
20
years
ago.
They
are
initially
different
right.
C
Also
the
mindset
and
everything
like
now
people
travel
so
much
more.
They
have
more
exposure
and
you
know
we
basically
have
like
a
record
in
in
the
whole
human
civilization
that
the
the
poverty
is
becoming
less
and
less
right
like
there
are
like
bigger,
like
middle
class.
People
which
comes
with
you
know
all
like
better
education
and
people
kind
of,
like
you
know,
kind
of
know
more,
and
especially
all
this
they're
more
like
digital
literate
right.
C
So
I
think
I
I
think
actually
define
is,
is
definitely
gonna
gonna
stay,
but
then,
of
course,
that
could
be
also
the
thing
where
we
can
kind
of
speed
up
the
process.
Right
I
mean
if
we
kind
of
involve
some
of
the
patterns,
I
don't
know.
I
think
it
would
make
like
kind
of
the
barrier
like
a
little
bit
lower,
for
example,
but
I
don't
think
I
don't
think
like
I
don't.
I
don't
think
in
order
for
us
to
to
you,
know
kind
of
guarantee
the
mass
adoption.
C
A
Yeah,
I
agree,
I
agree
and,
as
eric
said
before,
this
is
a
marathon
and
yeah
keep
running
yeah
it
will.
It
will
be,
I
mean,
as
it
was
for
web
2
and
internet
adoption.
It
would
be
the
same
here.
I
mean
it's
not
a
two-month
pro
process,
but
we
will
get
get
to
it.
Okay,
I
think
guys
we
can
before
answering
the
the
last
question
by
amy,
which
is
which
is
regarding
tips.
A
C
What
I'm
doing,
maybe?
Okay,
maybe
in
the
past
yeah,
I
think
they're
cool,
like
I,
okay,
so
all
my
clients,
if
they're,
if
you're
here.
So
all
the
projects
that
I
have
been
working
with
were
like
super
awesome,
and
I
love
all
of
them
right.
I
think
one
particular
project
was
probably
so.
Our
beef
website
was
also
pretty
cool,
but
perhaps
like
ethereum.org
in
early
2019.
C
C
An
entity
website
that
has
you
know
has
been
there
since,
like
2016,
I
think,
and
so
the
key
was
that
at
that
time,
so
ethereum
launched,
like
kind
of
soft,
launched
the
new
website.
But
then
there
are
also
a
lot
under
the
hood
like,
for
example,
they
had
this
project
of
translating
the
documentation
into
many
languages
right.
C
So
what
I
did
was
so
I
talked
contacted
my
friends
who
are
cultural
artists
like
another
four
of
them
and
they
basically
we
come
together
and
then
okay,
maybe
we
could
like
each
of
us
have
our
own
version
of
you
know
how
the
ethereum
identity
should
look
like
in
this
new
era.
You
know,
and
then
we
did
that
and
we
animate
that
and
then
we
also
kind
of
have
this
a
morph,
like
effect,
to
show
like
ethereum
written
in
so
many
languages.
I
I
think
I'm
sharing
the
screen.
C
Yeah
and
I'm
originally
from
thailand
right
so
it
was.
I
don't
know
like
the
first
time
that
I
wrote
the
word
ethereum
in
thai
and
it
feels
kind
of
very
foreign
to
me,
but
but
on
the
other
hand,
I
also
feel
like
very
close
to
me.
You
know
because
it's
that
it's
my
native
language
and
I
also
ask
people
also
on
twitter,
like
okay,
if
you
want
your
language
to
be
included
in
this,
you
know
please
send
so.
There
are
also
the
guy
from
serbia.
C
Also
people
from
russia,
that's
in
and
we
included
them
all
and
I
think
it's
pretty
cool
to
kind
of,
like
you
have
this
collective
ownership
of
of
this
whole
project,
somehow
right,
because
we
all
somehow
either
work
on.
You
know
the
network
or
we
either.
You
know
wanted
to
invest
in
something
or
there
are
so
many
use
cases
and
yeah.
I
think
I
think
like
just
by
presenting
it
in
in
your
own
language
right,
it's
it's
the
very
simple
but
yet
powerful
way
to
visualize.
You
know
this
kind
of
ownership,
yeah.
A
B
B
Yeah
cool
okay,
so
I
think
an
interesting
point
to
ponder
is:
there's
literally
no
better
way
to
get
feedback
on
your
product
than
to
put
it
live,
and
I
think
this
is
evident
with
the
governance
product
that
we
put
live
so
when
we
put
vote.makerdale.com
live
some
years
ago,
maybe
18
months
or
two
years
ago.
Now
there
was
a
lot
of
assumptions
going
into
that
that
that
we
had
were
yet
to
unpack,
and
we
didn't
know
how
a
lot
of
things
were
going
to
play
out
on
the
original
governance
interface.
B
B
It
was
an
issue
and
then
one
of
the
probably
the
largest
bits
of
feedback
that
we
get
on
the
governance
product
is
people
don't
know
where
governance
happens
right
and
we
weren't
too
sure
either
at
the
start,
outside
of
some
of
the
calls
specifically
where
governance
would
happen
right
and
those
areas
have
cropped
up
in
in
several
different
locations.
So
we
set
to
kind
of
address
some
of
those,
some
of
that
feedback
in
updating
governance.
B
So
the
first
thing
we'll
we'll
be
launch-
and
this
is
not
live
yet
this
is
going
to
be
going
live
in
the
next
few
months
is
we're,
firstly,
creating
a
governance
landing
page,
which
does
a
couple
of
things.
It
will
firstly
point
people
to
the
different
areas
at
which
governance
happens.
So
the
forum,
I
think,
probably
emerged
in
the
last
six
months
and
perhaps
things
that
new
things
emerge
in
the
future.
Where
governance
happens,
so
we
wanted
to
create,
like
a
single
entry
point
for
governance.
B
B
I
can
kind
of
jump
off
into
the
different
layers
of
governance,
so
I
can
jump
into
the
actual
portal
itself
or
I
could
go
and
catch
up
on
some
of
the
forum
posts
or
I
could
listen
to
some
of
the
recordings
and
then
one
of
the
second
issues.
We're
wanting
to
address
is,
as
I
mentioned,
about
the
governance
cycle.
So
what
we're
noticing
is
there's
a
lot
of
polls
happening
at
the
moment
in
governance
and
and
obviously
the
ux
of
that
is
not
ideal.
B
And
then
it's
just
one
transaction
at
the
end
and
the
the
smart
contracts,
team
and
josh
have
rebuilt
a
lot
of
the
back
end
of
this.
So
the
the
live
version
is
extremely
quick
so
to
actually
go
through
this
process
to
be
able
to
submit
your
vote.
It's
I
think
it's
I
think
it'll
probably
reduce
it
from.
A
A
Last
question,
which
is
also
our
closing
for
today,
is:
if
you
have
guys
any
tips,
or
I
mean
advice
for
anyone
entering
the
space.
With
your
background,
I
mean
for
like
a
fresh
designer
which,
which
kind
of
resources
would
you
recommend
if
you
have
any
tip
or
something
like
this,
we
can
start
with
lily
and
then
I
think.
C
Okay,
I
think
for
new
designers
like
coming
to
this
web3
space.
I
would
say
the
best
advice
that
I
have
received
earlier
in
2018
was
that
you
have
to
be
a
user.
You
have
to
try
to
use
all
the
different
apps
really
right
and
yeah
like
I
mean
it's,
not
the
actual,
like
design
advice,
but
I
mean
as
a
designer
and
if
you're,
not
a
user
in
this
complicated
kind
of
you
know
app
space,
it's
very
difficult
to
go
anywhere,
because
it's
not
just
about
how
it
looks
right.
It's
not
just
about.
C
Oh,
it
looks
amazing
or
the
shadow
is
right,
but
it's
about
like
whether
this
works,
not
whether
this
improved
experience
or
not-
and
you
cannot
know
at
all,
if
you're,
not
a
user,
if
you,
if
you
use
it
one
time,
I
think
it's,
it's
not
the
same
as
you
use
it
like.
Quite
often
you
know,
and
then
then
you
become
a
user,
and
then
you
know
exactly.
Oh
my
god.
You
know.
If,
if
I
were
in
this
position,
I
would
do
something
yeah.
B
Yeah,
I
would
just
follow
on
from
what
lily
said,
and
I
think
one
thing
that's
really
important
is
to
just
immerse
yourself
in
in
the
communities.
I
think,
if
you're
a
designer,
an
aspiring
designer,
if
you
just
immerse
yourself
in
the
different
d5
communities,
there's
always
stuff
to
be
done
right.
So
before
I
joined
maker,
I
was
a
a
community
member
at
maker
trying
to
understand
how
the
how
the
protocol
worked
and
trying
to
get
up
to
speed
with
various
different
things,
and
that's
how
I
got
into
this
into
the
maker
project.
B
I
I
got
in
contact
with
someone
who
worked
at
the
foundation
and
we
went
back
and
forth
and
I
understood
the
project.
I've
been
participating
and
asking
questions,
but
we
see
that
like
make,
is
obviously
a
lot
more
established
now
than
when
I
joined,
but
we
see
new
projects
almost
popping
up
daily
that
that
I
think,
have
a
lot
of
promise
and
are
doing
a
lot
of
interesting
things
in
d5
and
the
communities
are
big
and
they're
vast
and
that
that
they're
screaming
for
designers
to
join
them.
B
One
of
the
designers
maker
who
joined
just
after
I
did
it
was
his
first
design
job,
but
he
came
to
to
us
he'd
drawn
loads
of
different
prototypes
for
maker
in
his
free
time,
just
because
he
was
passionate
about
it.
He
understood
everything
about
the
the
project
in
the
protocol
and
he
just
said:
hey
is
there
anything
I
can
do
to
help
out
and
we
were
like
wow.
This
is
incredible.
B
He's
actually
gone
off
and
solved
a
lot
of
the
kind
of
interesting
problems
and
taking
a
stab
at
stuff,
so
we
ended
up
hiring
him
and
he's
still
with
us
today.
So
yeah.
I
think
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
for
for
designers
in
the
space
just
to
immerse
yourself
in
the
community,
the
communities
that
interest
you
in
d
fire
and
there's-
certainly
plenty
of
them
and
yeah.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity.
A
Yeah
definitely,
and
also,
I
would
add
something
for
everyone-
don't
need
new
to
the
spaces.
No,
no,
don't
get
scared,
because
everything
is
amazing
and
also
the
people
surrounding
in
this
space
are
super
helpful.
So
you
can
ask
everywhere,
and
I
mean
don't
get
scared.
If
you
want
to
start,
it
seems
very
complicated,
but
it
is
but.