►
From YouTube: THE VAULT - Day 2 - Panel: DeFi on NEAR - Q&A
Description
Host: David Morrison
1. Kendall - Proximity Labs
2. Claudio Cossio - Metapool
3. Oliver Gale - Panther Protocol
4. Richard Tuitiun - QUID.io
5. 0xdom - Trisolaris
Follow the latest from NEAR Protocol on:
Website: https://near.org/
Discord: https://near.chat/
Blog: https://near.org/blog/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NEARProtocol
GitHub: https://github.com/near https://github.com/nearprotocol
#Blockchain #FutureIsNEAR #NEAR #nearprotocol
A
Welcome
to
the
d5
panel
on
nia
yeah,
we
did
it,
we
did
it
guys
we're
nearly
we're
nearly
closed
up
near
khan,
so
we've
got
a
bit
of
a
buzz
in
the
air.
Everybody's
really
excited
to
go
drinking
again,
except
if
richard
of
course,
because
you
know
he's
yeah
he's
done
he's
done
he's
done
so
I
was
actually
half
considering
if
I
could
open
it
up
with
a
what's.
That
was
a
was
that,
but
then
I
thought
that
might
be
treading
the
line
a
little
bit.
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
big
connect.
A
No,
I
want
you,
I
want
it.
So
my
name
is
david.
I'm
on
the
community
team,
my
mother,
in
the
panel
today
we
are
joined
with
a
wonderful
kendall
from
proximity
labs.
You
might
have
caught
his
talk
yesterday.
We're
gonna
grill
him
on
everything.
He
said.
No,
we're
not
gonna.
Be
that
bad,
the
wonderful
claudio
from
metapool
one
of
the
only
men
who
can
outdrink
me
somehow
we
have
got
oliver
gail
from
panther
protocol
richard
from
quidd
and
don
from
tri
solaris
right.
A
B
C
D
A
Awesome
guys
awesome,
look
so
we're
going
to
get
into
some
broad
defined
topics
and
then
something
a
little
bit
more
niche
more
towards
nia.
But
I
think
an
interesting
one,
because
you
guys
mentioned
boro's
building
on
near
direct
and
you
guys
are
building
on
aurora.
So
so
can
you
dive
into
a
little
bit
about
why
you
chose
aurora
or
why
you
didn't
choose
aurora
and
what
the
benefits
of
egypt.
C
Yeah,
so
we
can
start
with
why
we
chose
aurora
key.
One
of
the
key
reasons
is
a
it's
a
evm
compatible
which
makes
the
user
onboarding
journey
significantly
easier,
because
everyone
is
used
to
meta
mask
the
d5
experience
on
mainnet
ethereum
and
on
other
layer
ones
that
are
evm
compatible.
So
it's
a
great
gateway
drug
into
the
near
ecosystem.
C
That's
how
we
like
to
call
it!
So
it's
you
start.
You
know
bridging
over
you,
with
the
with
the
great
aurora
bridge
into
aurora
play
around
with
d5
and
aurora
and
then
essentially
you're
using
near
anyways,
because
aurora
is
on
on
top
of
near.
So
you
have
the
same
experience
and
hopefully
we
can
build
a
good
user
experience
to
start
to
onboard
users.
B
So
we're
on
both
actually
layer,
one
and
aurora,
but
we
want
to
make
the
party
as
big
and
fun
as
we
can
for
everybody
and
a
lot
of
people
that
are
familiar
with
money,
legos
they're,
going
to
bring
that
experience
to
aurora
first,
and
we
want
to
be
there
when
they
do
that.
So
we
want
to
be
agnostic
as
to
the
playground
we
play
in.
Just
let's
make
the
party
as
big
as
we
can.
D
Yeah
so
for
boro
we
had
one
main
goal,
and
that
was
to
make
it
as
easy
as
possible
to
borrow
an
engineer
so
building
natively
on
near
that's
where
most
of
the
new
york
community
is
today.
So
that
was
the
biggest
part
of
the
reason
that
we
chose
native
near
I
think
longer
term
we're
big
believers
in
native
near
you
know
a
native
new.
D
D
E
You
so
we
live
in
an
age
of
surveillance,
capitalism
and
public
blockchains.
Don't
make
that
any
better.
In
fact,
they
make
it
100
fold
worse
with
immutable
ledgers
and
so,
of
course,
we're
building
on
aurora
as
well.
So
panther
is
deploying
the
mvp
on
polygon
and
we've
been
really
impressed
with
the
experience
of
the
ner
team
and
just
from
top
to
bottom
marketing.
Business
development
vision,
support,
it's
been
fantastic
technology
is
super
strong
in
terms
of
the
near
protocol
itself,
and
so
you
know,
I
see
this
as
a
long-term
play.
E
Panther's
strategy
is
ready
to
deploy
as
many
shielded
pools
onto
evm
compatible
chains
in
the
short
term
as
possible
and
then
bridge
that
liquidity,
together
with
an
interchange,
private
decks
and
so
there's
something
of
a
master
plan
at
play.
But
I
rarely
see
that
the
the
near
partnership
is
is
a
long-term
partnership.
E
A
F
Yeah,
so
so,
for
us
is
the
big
vision
behind
it
is
we
want
to
build
the
two
by
four
for
d5
and
near.
We
believe
that
that
should
be
a
native
token.
Our
our
bet
is
for
that
to
be
s
t
near
so,
basically,
when
you
go
to
ref
or
to
any
other
decks,
you
will
use
that
as
the
main
peg
for
any
farming.
So
that's,
that's
our
bed
right!
It's
a
it's
a
it's!
We
believe
that
that's
also
a
very
powerful
asset
to
use
as
collateral.
F
D
Yeah
I
mean
st
is
really
exciting:
the
concept
of
taking
derivatives.
You
know
removes
that
choice
of
securing
the
network
and
using
your
asset
and
d5,
which
is,
I
think,
really
important,
yeah.
I
think
it
can
be
used
anywhere
that
near
is
used
and
enables
a
lot
of
really
interesting
things,
some
of
which
yeah
you
know
just
being
able
to
borrow
against
your
effectively
your
future
staking
rewards,
and
if
you
want
a
little
get
a
little
bit
crazier
there's
this
idea
of
leverage
sticking.
C
A
A
little
bit
yeah
like
actually
speaking
of
djinn
players
right
so
kendall
in
your
talk
yesterday,
you
mentioned
about
how
can
you
can
deposit
x
into
this
protocol
and
then
deposit
y
into
that
protocol
and
then
move
over
here
and
deposit
that
into
that
protocol
now
nia,
for
me,
at
least,
is
all
about
usability
and
user
experience
right.
So
how
do
you
guys
think
that
the
d5
world
is
going
to
evolve
in
terms
of
that
user
experience
like
do?
D
Hopefully,
one
click
and
done
when
possible.
You
know,
I
think,
a
good
example
of
teams
that
are
doing
good
jobs
here.
You
know
like
zapper,
phi
or
or
like
for
a
combo
if
you're
familiar
with
ethereum,
basically
what
they
do
is
they
create
a
ui
that
makes
it
really
easy
to.
You
know,
pick
some
end
goal
and
then
they
sort
of
build
out
the
transaction
or
series
of
transactions
you
need
to
get
to
accomplish
that
goal.
D
You
know,
I
I
think,
whenever
possible,
we
should
be
thinking
of
how
do
we
just
you
know-
and
this
is
any
kind
of
software
experience-
minimize
the
number
of
clicks
maximize
the
amount
of
information
that's
relevant
to
the
user
and
what
they're
trying
to
accomplish
so
yeah,
hopefully,
hopefully,
that's
what
we
can
accomplish.
I
think
it's
a
little
tricky
right
now,
but
you
know
at
the
wall
layer-
and
you
know
at
the
even
at
the
application
layer
we
can.
D
A
That'd
be
awesome
right,
I
mean
I
mean
one
of
the
goals
of
nia.
I
mean
it's
it's
to
on
board
the
next
one
billion
people
on
chen
right,
which
is
which
is
excellent.
It's
gonna
happen.
It's
gonna
happen.
How
will
d5
be
when
there's
a
billion
people
on
chin?
Can
we
still
get
these
420
apys,
these
crazy
d-gen
opportunities,
or
do
you
think
it's
going
to
settle
down
and
it's
going
to
be
a
little
bit
more
like
track
fight.
B
So
this
actually
builds
on
top
of
the
last
question.
Interestingly,
once
you
have
so
much
more
money
coming
in
it's
more
of
a
competitive
landscape,
so
what
happens
in
finance?
It's
not
the
same,
quite
in
d5,
but
in
finance
to
race
to
the
bottom,
and
you
have
very
heavy
competition
and
in
d5
it's
more
of
a
collaborative
thing
where
it's
like
neural
neural
networks
and
machine
learning.
E
Yeah
I
mean
the
yield.
I
agree.
The
yield
can't
can't
continue
in
that
way,
but
there
are
two
forces:
there's
of
course,
the
the
competitive
forces
of
of
competing
for
the
arbitrage
and
then
there's
the
network
effect
which
scales
the
value
and
so
there's
tremendous
network
effects
to
grow
across
these
protocols.
So
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
growth,
a
lot
of
yield
real
value
to
be
generated
over
the
long
term
as
blockchain
continues
to
fulfill
this.
This
vision,
the
question
is
like
what
does
the
interface?
Look
like
sure?
E
E
Who
are
you
and
who
needs
to
know?
And
so
you
know,
we've
seen
the
emergence
of
nfts,
but
people
are
being
fingerprinted
and
identified
by
their
art,
collectibles,
their
crypto
punks
or
whatever
else
it
is
today.
So
you
know
there's
this
major
consideration
around
alpha
protection
as
well
like
when
you
find
alpha
in
the
blockchain
world.
It's
very
quickly
competed
away,
and
that's
because
you,
you
can
front,
run
the
trades.
You
know
you
can
see.
E
A
You
have
to
get
it
in,
you
have
to
get
it
in.
You
have
to
get
it
in
nice,
nice
yeah.
So
I
guess
I
guess
this
is-
is
kind
of
a
little
bit
related
right.
So
we've
been
hearing
a
lot
about
about
regulatory
oversight
about
governments
around
the
world
sort
of
breaking
their
areas
up
at
crypto
right,
not
d5.
So
what
do
you
think
about
the
upcoming
regulatory
oversight?
And
what
does
that
mean
for
diva
in
the
next?
You
know
five.
Ten
years.
E
I've
been
in
it
for
a
long
time
and
working
with
regulators
as
well,
so
the
you
know,
I
think,
they're
overreaching
right
now
with
attempts
to
call
software
developers,
financial
service
providers
or
protocol
operators,
there's
a
big
distinction
between
freedom
of
expression
and
speech
and
writing
software
and
then
operating
a
business.
So
there
will
be
convergence
on
you
know
what
regulators
are
seeking
to
do
is
find
who
to
point
the
finger
at
and
so
it
maybe
it's
the
validator
notes.
E
Ultimately,
though,
there's
going
to
be
they're
going
to
be
major
trade-offs
and
benefits
to
certain
aggregators
and
those
aggregators
are
going
to
compress
their
margins
down
and
improve
their
experiences
and
like
people
will
be
very
happy
to
pay
fees
which
are
100
times
cheaper
than
what
they
pay
in
the
in
the
trad
fight
world
today
and
that's
a
win
for
everyone.
You
know
so,
I
think
that's
a
realistic
answer.
Awesome.
B
So
I
think
a
pattern
we
saw
this
year,
especially,
was
that
even
though
regulation
has
become
a
hotter
issue,
people
are
not
necessarily
mad
at
that.
We
want
to
all
feel
safer,
so
concurrently.
At
the
same
time,
everyone
became
more
interested
in
risk
management
and
that's
exactly
the
regulator's
job,
to
make
sure
that,
like
a
bank,
for
instance,
doesn't
lend
out
all
of
the
money.
You
know
a
little
bit
needs
to
be
in
reserve,
so
questions
like
that
are
becoming
a
subject
of
like
research
and
experimentation
more
so
than
they
were
in
2019
or
2018.
B
Maybe
when
it
was
too
early,
it
was
all
about
who's.
Gonna
be
the
first
one
to
you
know,
take
the
best
shortcuts
and
make
it
all
like
seize
the
moment
now
it's
about
like,
let's
take
it
slow,
let's
hire
some
quants,
you
know,
let's
sit
down
in
a
lab
and
stress
test
it
and
regulation
is,
is
kind
of
driving
that.
So,
if
we
do
have
that
and
we
are
forced
to
be
regulated,
then
we'll
be
prepared.
D
A
F
So
so,
and
latin
america
is
a
whole
other
thing
right.
We
we
have.
We
have
the
other
side
of
the
coin
in
the
sense
that
we're
not
going
to
wait
for
the
government
to
give
us
permission
or
or
or
give
us
licenses
right,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
community
has
a
need
that
we're
covering
right,
and
so,
if
we
wait
for
them
to
have
the
right
structure,
legal
whatnot,
then
you're
just
not
going
to
be
on
time
and
it's
a
global
market
as
well.
F
I'm
just
I
take
it
with
a
grain
of
salt
right.
It's
like
I
don't,
because
it's
not
in
their
best
interest
the
community.
Their
best
interest
is
always
themselves
right,
even
though
they
work
for
us
supposedly.
But
but
that's
that's
that's
just
our
bet.
Our
bed
is
in
the
community
and
the
community
will
take
care
of
itself
right
there.
F
Yes,
there's
people
taking
risks,
yes,
there's
people
doing
aping
and
there's
scammers
as
well,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
the
community
needs
to
take
care
of
their
own
right,
and
I
think
here
is
where
I
believe
that
the
new
ecosystem
is
really
healthy.
Right.
Yes,
there's
been
bad
actors,
yes,
there's
been
this
and
that,
but
we
take
care
of
our
own
as
well.
So
so
as
long
as
we're
betting
on
the
on
the
ecosystem
and
the
protocol
itself,
I
think
the
regulators
can
go
and
themselves.
A
Okay,
gladio's
throwing
can
we
can
okay
cut
the
stream
up?
I'm
kidding
I'm
good
okay,
awesome.
So
going
back
to
that
that
next
one
billion
people
on
chain
thing
like
there's
a
couple
of
centralized
decentralized
finance
services
out
there
like
cd5,
they
call
themselves
which
tends
to
offer
a
more
web
to
fintech
experience.
A
G
D
I
do
think
so
I
think
most
users
right
now
do
not
care
at
all
about
decentralization.
The
tide
is
certainly
shifting.
You
know,
I
think,
especially
as
privacy,
and
you
know
things
like
that-
become
more
part
of
just
the
conversation
for
just
about
everybody.
You
know
it
is
I'm
optimistic
that
it
will
become
more
of
a
core
value,
but
it's
really
about
the
experience.
First,
certainly
for
the
you
know
the
98
of
people
out
there,
so
I
think
for
a
while
those
services
are
going
to
continue
to
do
better.
D
Now,
I
guess,
what's
interesting,
is
that
you
know
decentralization,
it's
a
trade-off.
You
know
it.
It
has
certain
properties,
like
you
know
the
you
know
the
non-custodial
aspect
of
it.
It's
like
a
lot
harder
to
kind
of
capture
from
many
different
perspectives,
and
you
know
I
think,
that's
going
to
shine
depending
on
the
product.
So
if
we,
if
we
continue
to
focus
on
you
know,
how
do
we
build
products
where,
like
they
really
actually
need
to
be
decentralized?
And
we
need
this
this
this
type
of
pattern?
D
You
know
people
are
going
to
be
willing
to
bear
the
cost
and
you
know
we're
going
to
enable
things
that
weren't
even
possible
on
the
cfi
aspect
of
it.
But
the
the
experience
is
tough
to
get
right
and
it's
tough
to
compete.
You
know
if
you're,
just
getting
into
crypto
it's
a
much
friendlier
experience
on
coinbase
than
trying
to
I
mean
you
don't
kind
of
have
to
go
through
coinbase
to
even
get
to
d5
in
many
cases.
D
E
Yeah,
I
think
key
management
is
the
private
key
management.
Specifically,
is
the
major
differentiation
between
traditional
fintech
and
d5,
and
just
the
ability
of
users
to
lose
their
private
keys
is
a
real
problem.
It's
also
the
source,
a
huge
source
of
the
innovation
and
enables
peer-to-peer
transactions.
So
you
know
one
of
the
interesting
things
about
nir
is
the
approach
that
they
take
to
key
management
and
account
recovery
and
just
simplifying
this
idea
of
making
a
transaction.
E
But
if
you
look
at
you
know,
look
at
binance
binance
is
both
a
fintech,
and
it's
enabled
this
massive
d5
ecosystem
through
binance
smart
chain
and
their
dex,
which
was
the
precursor
to
that,
and
you
know
when
I
look
at
the
role
of
d5
and
traditional
fintech
or
tradfi
or
you
know,
cd5
is
the
intersection
between
those
really
d5
acts
as
like
an
on-ramp
and
it's
a
massive
customer
acquisition
tool.
There
are.
There
are
costs
and
frictions
now,
but
we're
really
innovating
those
away.
E
So
I
I
don't
think
cost
is
going
to
be
a
prohibiting
factor
when
you
extrapolate
where
we
are
with
with
smart
contract
protocols
today.
So
it
comes
down
to
like
who's
going
to
crack
that
nuanced
key
management
system
and
allow
people
to
maintain
custody
of
their
assets,
which
you
know,
allows
a
statement
like
the
regulators
to
actually
be
viable.
E
Otherwise,
it's
not-
and
you
know
even
to
that
statement
like
there's
a
lot
to
that.
You
know
you
can
really
unpack
that.
What
we're
really
talking
about
is
restoring
the
balance
of
power
between
citizens
and
authorities
and
and
that's
the
conversation-
that's
been
happening
since
satoshi
released
his
white
paper.
A
Okay,
so
so
I
think
the
future
is
multi-chain
right.
I
think
we
can
all
pretty
much
agree
on
that.
So
so,
where
do
you
guys
see
the
role
of
amms
and
d5
protocols
in
in
a
multi-chain
future
when
liquidity
is
a
little
more
fragmented?
It's
here
and
here
how
do
you?
How
do
you
think
it's
going
to
operate.
E
I'm
holding
the
mic
so
I'll
start,
so
bridges
are
getting
better
and
better
liquidity
moves
very
quickly.
You
know
the
network
effects
that
matter
are
our
user.
Well,
there
are
a
few
of
them,
but
two
of
the
important
ones
are
users
and
and
that
liquidity-
and
we
see,
like
tens
of
billions
of
dollars
rapidly
move
between
protocols,
that's
going
to
end
up
being
hundreds
of
billions
of
dollars.
So
there's
this
really
healthy
competition
game
and,
as
bridges
again
become
more
efficient.
E
It's
just
going
to
be
easier
to
eliminate
arbitrage
across
chains
and
then
ultimately,
they're
going
to
be
they're
going
to
be
adversarial.
Attacks
on
multiple
protocols-
and
you
know
inefficient
or
sub-optimal
designs
will
be
weeded
out,
but
it
is
a
multi-chain
future.
Undoubtedly,
and
there's
specialization
that's
already
taking
place,
so
you
know
it's
up
to
protocol
builders
to
be
assessing
what
that
looks
like
and
and
making
design
choices.
Now
that
say.
E
Well,
you
know
we
like,
for
example,
in
panther's
case,
like
privacy
has
to
be
a
multi-chain
endeavor,
because
institutions
and
their
users
and
users
themselves
need
to
be
able
to
privately
purchase
an
asset
on
the
near
ecosystem
or
whether
it's
the
native
chain
or
aurora
or
ethereum,
or
you
know
arbitrary,
and
they
don't
really
care.
Nor
should
they
have
to.
It
just
needs
to
work
so.
C
Yeah,
I
think,
there's
kind
of
two
big
problems
to
be
solved
from
a
for
from
a
multi-chain
perspective
in
d5,
which
we're
very
focused
on
solving
one
is
interoperability
of
tokens.
Aurora
is
doing
a
great
job
of
that
transferring
tokens
across
different
layers
even
across
near
to
aurora.
We
need
to
have
interoperability
and
making
sure
that
they're
fungible
right
and
secondly,
with
what
kendall
is
working
on,
it's
actually
a
huge
opportunity,
a
huge
problem
on
d5.
C
Now,
when
you
have
like
11
l1s
and
quite
a
few
l2s
is
when
you
have
collateral
on
one
of
these
l1.
You
can't
borrow
against
it
on
another
l1
right,
so
you're
fragmenting
liquidity
unnecessarily,
which
is
a
huge
problem
right
now,
and
it's
an
open
area
of
innovation
to
solve
and
like
that.
Those
two,
I
think,
are
the
key
for
any
any
d5
ecosystem
to
to
grow
on
multiple
l
ones.
C
You
know,
majority
of
your
time
is
being
spent
in
a
bridge
when
you,
if
you're
moving
funds
between
different
l1s
to
capture
arbitrage
opportunities
to
capture
yields,
as
you
were
saying
like
how
does
an
l1
actually
differentiate
itself
when
you
have
11
of
them
right,
you
can't
just
rely
on
yields.
Yields
are
going
to
go
away,
you're
going
to
have
rotator
ores,
who
rotate
to
a
different
chain
right.
So
you
know
sustainable
differentiation
relies
on
on
bridges
and
interoperability.
I
think.
B
Yeah
thanks
for
mentioning
alex's
thing,
because
my
favorite
part
of
it
was
exchanges.
So
actually
you
want
currencies
on
l
ones
to
stay
there
because
they
are
attached
to
the
security
of
the
chain.
The
more
tokens
are
staked
in
the
proof
of
stake,
pools
the
more
secure
the
chain.
But
what
happens
when
you
need
to
do
all
of
this
cross
chain
like
money
flow?
A
F
F
Don't
don't
think
yourselves
you're,
not
so,
but
then
the
other
billion
no
they're
not
going
to
be
in
a
position
of
privilege,
right
and
so
they're
going
to
be
risking
their
life
life,
livelihood
right
and
that's
who
we
need
to
on
board.
So
we
need
to
be
really
really
conscious.
What
we're
doing
and
educating
and
risk
management.
F
That's
going
to
be
the
name
of
the
game,
how
good
the
protocols
extrapolate
that
in
in
plain
english
or
spanish,
or
taiwanese
or
chinese,
in
order
for
them
to
understand
the
risk
that
they're
taking,
but
also
the
rewards
right.
So
it's
it's
kind
of
like
and
and
then
you
click
you
create
that
flywheel.
F
Yes,
the
yields
and
then
extrapolating
to
traveling
and
then
yeah.
That's
fine
right!
That's
for
us,
but
for
the
next
one
billion
it's
just.
This
is
the
risk
right
and
as
the
better
that
we
get
to
explain
it
and
the
better
that
we
get
at
understanding
how
they
can
also
be
part
of
this
right.
Not
only
guess,
I'm
taking
the
risk,
but
then
put
it
there
and
us
and
then
no,
we
don't
want
that.
We
want
that
capital
flow.
We
want
capital
efficiency
from
onboarding
this
next
one
billion.
F
D
Yeah,
I
think
I
think
it's
for
me.
It's
definitely
on
boarding,
and-
and
that
means
a
few
things
like
like
claudio-
is
saying.
Education
and
communication
is
a
really
important
part
of
that.
Then
there's
also
kind
of
the
you
know
operational
and
technical
challenges
of,
like
you
know.
How
do
we
get
people
onto
these
platforms
without
having
to
go
through
coinbase?
D
You
know,
maybe
that's
something
like
actually
doing
a
great
job
of
kind
of
the
play
to
earn
type
of
model
or
like
learn
to
earn
or
just
earn
doing,
work
whatever
it
is,
but
you
know
even
more
than
that.
It's
it's
actually
creating
products
that
really
do
serve
these
people
in
these
communities.
I
mean
you
know
we're
sort
of
yeah
again
in
the
privileged
position.
D
Now,
where
you
know
a
lot
of
us
have
some
assets
of
some
crypto
assets,
even
if
it's
only
a
little
bit-
and
you
know
over
collateralized
lending
is-
is
a
product
that
makes
sense
to
you,
maybe
because
you
want
to
take
leverage,
maybe
because
you
want
to
you,
know,
buy
a
house
or
buy
a
car
or
something
like
that.
But
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
work
being
done
in
under
collateralized
or
uncollateralized
lending,
because
that's
the
product
that
really
serves.
D
You
know
the
majority
of
people,
and
so
you
know
we
still
have
a
lot
of
work
to
do
to
actually
create
these
products
that
are
even
going
to
fit
into
the
lives
of
you
know
the
next
billion
users,
and
especially
the
users
that
we
created
this
technology
to
serve,
which
are
the
ones
who
are
not
being
served
by
the
traditional
financial
system.
So
yeah.
C
Yeah
kind
of
add
on
to
both
of
your
points:
d5
today
is
catered
for,
degens
right
and,
and
it's
it's
definitely
not
catered
for.
You
know
people
without
assets,
as
kendall
was
saying.
So
that's
the
biggest
problem
we
see
right
now
is
like
how
do
you
make
it
sustainable
so
that
you
you
you're
not
just
coming
for
the
yields?
C
C
B
And
I
think
that
would
come
down
to
thinking
fast
but
slow,
so
we
all
come
to
realize
that
what
comes
quick
leaves
quicker
and
d5
degens
are,
if
they're,
going
to
teach
people
who
never
dealt
with
finance,
how
to
deal
with
finance.
They
still
have
to
master
finance
better
than
the
financiers
of
today,
and
that's
like
really
our
challenge
that
and
the
journey
and
the
real
reason
that
we're
all
in
this
is.
B
Can
we
really
go
through
everything
that,
like
the
past
hundred
years
of
finance,
has
gone
through
but
10x
through
the
power
of
exponentiality
and
technology
and
experimentation
and
move
fast
and
break
things
and
still
teach
them
something
because
they're
afraid
of
us
for
a
reason
like
what
do
we
know
that
they
don't?
You
know,
because
they
know
they're
masters
of
the
universe.
They
know
everything
and
yeah.
We
have
to
be
really
open-minded
and
kind
of
collegiate.
For
that.
A
Awesome
guys
so
we've
got
about.
We've
got
about
10
minutes
left,
I'm
going
to
fire
a
couple
more
questions.
Then
we
can
open
it
up.
If
anybody
else
has
any
questions
feel
free
to
shout
out.
So
I've
been
hearing
a
lot
of
we
a
lot
of
us
a
lot
of
djans
here
today.
That's
the
community
as
it
is
now
and
and
what
role
do
you
think
the
community
plays
in
terms
of
ushering
in
this
future?
France
right
this
future
finance.
B
Be
excited
about
it,
wake
up
in
the
morning
and
be
like:
how
can
I
make
this
the
day
when
it
was
better
than
yesterday's
yesterday,
you
know
how
can
I
keep
like
stacking
and
stacking
and
stacking
because
compound
yield?
It's
it's
the
eighth
wonder
of
the
universe,
so
you
get
from
nothing
to
something.
B
C
E
E
Worthiness,
I.e,
you've
identified
them,
whether
it's
explicitly
or
implicitly-
and
I
think
one
of
the
main
dangers
is
that
we
start
offering
these
defy
2.0
under
collateralized,
ai,
informed
financial
services
and
users
are
just
selling
their
credentials
onto
an
immutable
ledger
in
perpetuity,
and
so
you
know
it's
really
important.
I
mean
this
is
a
an
issue
that
pertains
to
democracy
and
the
functioning
of
a
democracy
is
data
protection.
You
know
we're
we're
talking
a
lot
about
d5
products,
but
what
we
really
need
is
private,
digital
identity.
We
need
self
solver
and
data
storage.
E
E
Of
course,
they're
like
infrastructure
problems
around
scalability
and
and
other
constraints,
but
I
think
those
are
challenges,
not
obstacles
they're,
going
to
be
resolved,
they're
already
halfway
there,
if
not
more,
and
so
you
know,
we
need
to
start
thinking
about
the
social
constructs
that
these
financial
products
and
toolkits
are
built
upon.
What
does
that
mean?
For
what
does
that
mean
for
future
generations?
What
does
it
mean
for
kids,
who
are
playing
oxy
infinity?
Now,
it's
like
a
six-year-old.
E
You
know,
like
all
of
that
data
resides
on
chain
it.
It
means
a
lot
and
it's
accessible
to
anyone.
So
I
think
that
the
next
wave
of
device
is
going
to
see
a
lot
of
data
sovereignty,
data
protection
and
like
the
social
interface
between
who
the
actor
is,
whether
it's
a
machine
or
a
human
and
how
they're
interacting
with
these
financial
products.
E
A
G
I
have
like
maybe
two
questions,
but
I'll
just
start
with
with
one
in
case
someone
else
will
have
another
ones.
You
managed
sorry.
You
mentioned
that
ethereum
like
and
cryptocurrency.
In
general,
they
have
like
a
new
kitchen
like
key
holding
strategy,
which
is
different
from
centralized
exchanges
which
hold
your
keys
for
your
keys,
for
you
like,
for
instance,
binance
holds
keys
for
for
all
your
funds
and
they
can
steal
them
if
they
want
to,
but
have
a.
I
have
a
question.
Is
that
really
like
convenient
for
users?
G
Do
you
really
think
this
is
convenient
if
all
users
have
to
like
remember
all
the
seed
phrase
and
when
they
like
open
metamask,
it
says
them
if
you
in
any
case
like
if
this
passphrase
gets
stolen,
you
like
instantly,
lose
all
your
money
and
I'm
not
quite
sure.
This
is
a
good
experience,
especially
for
old
people
and
near
introduced,
email,
best,
email
based
registration.
G
E
I
I
can
comment
quickly
on
the
key
management
component.
You
know
the
the
means
in
which
you
store
your
private
keys
is
improving
and
you
know
the
thought
that
came
to
my
mind
was
like.
If
you
own
your
house,
do
you
want
to
store
the
title
deed
and
how
you
frame
that
as
a
matter
of
convenience
or
inconvenience?
E
Now,
of
course,
if
it's
five
dollars,
maybe
it's
not
so
important
that
you
manage
your
key,
but
if
it's
five
hundred
thousand
dollars,
I
think
it's
absolutely
a
priority,
and
the
friction
as
it
is
today
is,
is
simply
a
matter.
It's
a
function
of
education,
so
people
in
the
ecosystem.
Today
we
do
delegate
key
management
to
exchanges
and
other
entities,
but
I'm
sure
that
everyone
in
the
room
has
a
hardware
wallet
or
some
offline
key
management
system,
and
why?
E
Because
we
were
educated
on
the
importance
of
it,
so
the
friction
is
a
necessary
one
and
the
civil
liberties
and
the
empowering
nature
of
it
are
just
like
orders
of
magnitude
greater
than
the
cost
of
of
remembering
it.
So
that's
that
comes
down
to
like
a
user
experience
component.
As
for
near's
tactics-
and
I
can't
comment
on
that-
maybe
someone
else
wants
to
speak
on
that.
D
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
in
key
management
in
general.
You
know
fortunately
there's
some
very
intelligent
people
working
on
it
coming
up
some
very
creative
solutions.
That
being
said,
I
you
know,
I
don't
think
that
custodians
are
ever
maybe
ever
is
not,
but
like
no
time
soon
are
they
gonna
go
away,
and
you
know
there's
some
cool
patterns.
Now,
where
you
know
you
can
give
custodians
a
role
in
the
way
you
can
manage
your
keys,
but
without
giving
them
all
the
power.
D
You
know
arjun's
a
great
example
of
doing
this,
where
they
can
sort
of
act
as
a
you
know,
a
guardian
for
you.
If
you
lose
your
key
and
you
have
you
know
you
have
some
kind
of
ways
to
circumvent
that.
If
you
know
if
they
were
being
malicious,
so
I
think
that's
that's
quite
fascinating,
and
you
know
I
I
envision
a
world
where
yeah
we
have
a
mix
of
custodians
and
self-custody,
and
you
know
probably
the
most
interesting
thing
about
the
existence
of
self-custody.
D
Is
that
now
you
actually
have
a
pretty
feasible
way
to
store
potentially
large
amounts
of
money
yourself
in
a
way?
That's,
you
know
not
crazy,
like
keeping
you
know
a
ton
of
cash
under
your
bed
and
that
that
does
sort
of
you
know
almost
forces
these.
These
actors,
these
custodians
to
to
be
better
and
better
and
to
provide
better
and
better
services,
which
you
know
alone,
might
be
enough
of
an
impact.
D
So
specifically,
on
the
near
question
yeah
I
mean
that
you
know
right
now,
there's
just
a
lot
of
trade-offs
and
there's
basically
a
trade-off
between
on
one
side.
You
have
you
know
like
usability
and-
and
you
know,
almost
security
of
you
know
being
able
to
get
this
like
key,
find
this
key
versus
actual
security
and
someone
being
able
to
find
this
key
at
rest.
You
know,
I
mean,
in
the
near
wallet
they're
pretty
upfront
that
that
is
not
the
most
secure
way
to
manage
your
money.
Ideally,
you
don't
have
that
much
in
there.
D
It's
super
convenient,
but
you
know
there's
that
trade-off
being
made.
So
I
think
you
know
short
term
and
when
people
are
getting
onboarded,
you
know
you
might
expect
that
a
lot
of
people
will
choose
that
option
because
they're
still
learning,
they
probably
don't-
have
many
assets
in
there
and
it
doesn't
matter
that
much
they
care
more
about
the
the
ease
of
access
than
the
actual
real.
D
Like
you
know,
security
of
somebody
getting
access
to
those
funds,
but
as
users
kind
of
progress-
and
you
know
either
acquire
more
assets
or
whatever
or
more
things
they
care
about
or
even
just
become
more
sophisticated.
You
would
expect
that
they're
going
to
choose,
you
know
they're
going
to
shift
along
that
curve
towards.
I
actually
may
want
to
make
sure
that
only
I
can
access
my
funds.
B
So
crypto
is
a
very
optimistic
scene
and
in
security
audits.
The
phrase
you
often
hear
is
it's
a
feature
not
a
bug.
So
it
sounds
like
it's
really
really
a
poor
experience,
but
actually
now
you
think
about
it.
If
you're
getting
a
wallet,
you
don't
just
want
your
friends
to
also
get
wallets,
so
you
can
send
them
money,
but
you
want
your
mom,
your
grandma,
your
brother,
your
ex
whatever
to
have
a
piece
of
your
key
in
case
yeah.
B
A
G
Okay,
I
also
like
thought
about
what
do
you
think
about
that,
for
instance,
some
large
amounts
of
money
they
maybe
actually
like,
better
and
not
be
stolen,
stored
in
crypto
because,
like
while
the
government
can't
take
them
away
generally
like
if
you
are
rich,
if
you're
really
really
rich,
the
government
can
anyway
come
to
you
and
they
can,
like.
I
don't
know
they
can
make
you
give
that
that
crypto,
but
because
there
is,
for
instance,
there
was
some
like
interesting
situation
in
california.
There
was
some.
G
I
don't
know
there
was
some
hacker
he
like
did
some.
He
created.
He
wanted
a
ransom
and
the
government
actually
like
paid
them.
But
then
the
fbi
made
him
pay
him
by
made
him
pay
him
back,
pay
the
ransom
back.
So
I
was
thinking
that,
if
you
have
like
really
small
amounts,
it
might
not
work
because,
like
it's
just
not
really
that
convenient.
Well,
actually
it
might
work
within
here
because
it's
cheap
okay,
but
if
you
have
like
billions
billion
billions
of
dollars,
not
millions
millions,
I
think
it's
fine,
but
billions
of
dollars.
G
They
are
better
to
be
protected
by
the
government
because
in
case
someone
like
a
bad
actor
kidnaps
you
and
tries
like
to
destroy.
You
is
still
your
crypto
like
that
and
you
may
and
they
make
you
send
it.
It's
lost
it's
forever
lost,
but
the
government
can
at
least
use
like
its
power
of
printing
money
to
print
it
back
to
you
or
like,
or
maybe
just
use
this
force
to
to
get
the
money
back.
G
G
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
I
think
I
think
what
you're
saying
is
like
how
do
you
protect
against
the
20
wrench
attack
right,
like
you've
got
all
your
crypto.
It's
on
your
computer.
You've
got
your
ledger
there.
Somebody
could
just
come
around
put
a
rent
to
your
head
and
say
send
me
all
that
crypto
right,
but
whereas
yeah,
if
you
have
your
cash
in
fear,
you
have
a
certain
amount
of
protection.
What
with
regulatory
oversight-
and
you
know
the
government
yeah.
B
It's
it's
hard
to
not
have
something
stolen
if
you
don't
really
know
whose
it
is
because
you
can't
like
enforce
that
right
of
claim
in
court.
If
someone
knows
who
you
are
and
what
you
own
and
how
much
money
you
have
well,
the
majority
of
billions
in
crypto
are
actually
and
that's
not
how
they
got
there.
The
people
who
bought
in
ethereum
when
it
was
like
a
few
cents.
B
You
know
and
went
to
like
thousands
of
dollars,
that's
where
the
majority
of
the
billions
come
from,
so
their
question
is
kind
of
flip
the
table
backwards.
How
do
I
legalize
my
income
now
without
declaring
how
much
I
actually
made
on
it
and
the
question?
There
is
well
yeah,
that's
a
useful
thing,
because
you
don't
want
a
gun
to
your
head
and
all
of
a
sudden
to
miss
your
lucky
ticket
in
life.
So
it's
kind
of
like
a
custody
problem,
many
institutions
that
want
access
to
the
billions
in
crypto.
They
need
a
regulated
entity.
B
That's
a
custodian
that
has
contracts
for
every
transaction
for
every.
So
everything
has
a
paper
trail.
They
need
that
a
person
who
wants
to
legalize
their
crypto
gains.
They
just
want
a
one-time
deal
like
a
one-time
service
and
there
are
brokerages
that
do
that
for
people
they
also,
if
you
are
part
of
a
crypto
startup
and
you
you
want
to
disappear
and
just
sell
your
equity.
B
They
also
do
that
they
do
over-the-counter
sales,
so
there's
a
whole
service
industry
forming
around
crypto
and
it's
kind
of
like
the
financial
services
industry,
where
there's
a
million
ways
to
simplify
someone's
life
and
make
a
little
bit
of
a
spread.
So
it's
becoming
a
cottage
industry,
essentially.
C
Yeah,
I
mean
simple
things:
use
a
multi-sig.
You
physically
can't
wrench
attack
a
multi-sig
person
because
you're
not
gonna,
get
the
money
unless
you
wrench
attack
five
of
them
right,
and
the
second
thing
is:
it's
not
quote
is
not
law.
If
we've
learned
anything,
it's
social
consensus
that
drives
it.
If
there's
a
token,
that's
been
hacked
or
someone
forces
money
off
of
you.