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From YouTube: 3/29/2021 - Senate Committee on Judiciary
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A
A
Here
we
are
also
joined
today
by
our
staff
members,
patrick
guyan
and
nicholas
anthony
our
committee
council,
and
it
is
very
nice
to
have
him
back
with
us,
since
he
was
relegated
to
drafting
bills
for
such
a
long
time.
It's
a
joy
to
have
you
here
in
committee
with
us
today.
We
have
two
bills
to
hear.
A
I
will
actually
be
presenting
both
of
them,
so
I
will
be
turning
the
gavel
over
to
the
vice
chair
majority
of
kennezara
when
she
gets
here
and
in
the
meantime,
you
will
be
in
the
very
capable
hands
of
chair
orenshaw,
who
I
will
hand
the
proverbial
gavel
to
at
this
time.
F
Thank
you
very
much
jericho,
and,
with
that
I'd
like
to
open
the
hearing
on
senate
bill
258,
if
that's
the
bill,
you'd
like
to
start
with
church
tribal
I'd
like
to
open
the
hearing
on
senate
bill,
258
sheriff
scheibel.
Thank
you
for
presenting
this
legislation
and
please
begin
whenever
you're
ready.
A
Thank
you
so
much
members
of
the
nevada
senate
judiciary
committee.
My
name
is
melanie
schaible.
I
am
the
state
senator
from
district
nine
in
the
southwest
part
of
las
vegas,
and
it
is
my
pleasure
today
to
be
in
front
of
you
presenting
sb
258.
A
I
have
with
me
an
expert
on
the
subject:
holly
welbourne
from
the
aclu,
who
many
of
you
already
know,
and
she
will
be
walking
through
some
background
of
the
bill
and
the
portions
of
the
bills
to
better
understand
it.
And
then
I
will
be
here
as
well
as
members
of
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
to
answer
any
questions,
because
this
bill
does
indeed
affect
the
nevada
department
of
corrections.
A
The
purpose
of
sb258
is
to
require
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
to
establish
some
guidelines
and
some
rules
and
policies
to
put
in
place
in
order
to
better
serve
the
populations
that
are
in
their
custody,
who
are
transgender,
intersex
or
otherwise.
Gender
diverse.
It's
important
that
we
implement
policies
specifically
targeted
towards
these
communities
so
that
they
can
be
safe
and
treated
with
dignity
and
respect
during
the
time
that
they
are
in
the
custody
of
the
nevada
department.
Of
corrections,
they
simply
face
challenges.
A
Questions
problems
that
other
members
of
the
population,
even
within
the
nevada
department
of
corrections,
custody,
do
not
face
for
a
long
time.
They
have
been
overlooked
and
many
of
them
have
many
people
who
are
incarcerated
at
endoc,
who
identify
as
gender
diverse
as
transgender
or
as
intersex
have
experienced
espec
special
difficulties
in
adapting
to
life
within
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
that
have
not
been
able
to
receive
the
adequate
medical
care,
access
to
commissary
items
and
a
staff
that
is
properly
trained
in
their
cultural
competence.
A
A
And
so
I
am
very
pleased
to
turn
the
presentation
over
to
mrs
welborn,
who,
as
I
said,
will
give
you
a
little
bit
more
background
on
this
issue
and
walk
you
through
the
bill.
D
D
I
think
it's
important
to
talk
about
the
background
verse
and
why
we've
decided
to
go
down
the
road
of
ensuring
that
the
department
of
corrections
adopt
certain
regulations
and
to
make
that
a
statutory
requirement
with
the
imposition
of
a
deadline.
So,
let's
start
there.
So
let's
talk
about
what
it
is
to
be
transgender.
A
transgender
person
is
someone
whose
gender
identity,
their
internal
sense
of
being
male
female
or
some
other
gender
is
different
from
their
sex
assigned
at
birth.
D
D
D
We,
along
with
our
national
aclu,
lgbtq
rights
project,
our
national
prison
project
and
local
right
or
excuse
me,
transgender
rights.
Advocacy
organizations
notified
the
department
of
corrections
back
in
2016
that
their
medical
directive,
121,
which
limited
hormone
therapy
for
gender
dysphoria
to
pre-incarceration
treatment,
regardless
of
medical
necessity
necessity,
that's
known
as
a
freeze-frame
policy,
was
unconstitutional.
D
There
have
been
some
adjustments
to
that
medical
directive
and,
while
it's
improved,
the
updates
continue
to
suggest
that,
at
any
time,
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
may
discontinue
or
refuse
to
initiate
treatment
of
hormone
therapy
during
an
individual's
incarceration,
regardless
of
medical
need.
Anna
does
not
make
any
provision
for
surgical
treatment,
regardless
of
medical
necessity.
In
an
individual
case,
as
stated
before,
the
eighth
amendment
bars
a
prison
from
denying
access
to
certain
types
of
treatment
based
on
a
blanket
policy
that
does
not
allow
for
medical
judgment
based
on
the
individual.
D
D
D
It
is
helpful
to
the
state
to
avoid
further
litigation
in
the
future
and
to
bring
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
into
compliance
with
ninth
circuit
case
law
and
with
certain
litigation
settlements
that
have
already
been
imposed
upon
the
department
since
that
decision
was
rendered.
D
But
perhaps
the
most
important
component
of
this
bill
is
the
deadline
imposed
in
section
8
on
page
3
line
14
that
they
excuse
me
line
17
that
imposes
a
deadline
of
january
1st
2022.
D
It
also
provides
for
training
and
cultural
competency
for
interacting
with
transgender
individuals.
That
is
a
need
of
the
department
that
we
believe
should
be
statutory,
and
that
deadline
is
is,
is
critical
in
order
to
force
the
department
to
comply
with
ninth
circuit
case
law,
with
settlements
that
they
are
engaged
in
and
to
protect
the
dignity
and
rights
of
transgender
incarcerated
individuals.
D
F
G
Thank
you,
mr
vice
vice
chair,
and
thank
you,
senator
and
and
ms
welborne,
for
presenting
this
and
miss
welborn
since
you're
the
expert
on
this.
I
want
to
I'm
not
antagonistic
to
the
idea
here.
I
think
that
we
should
always
treat
people
no
matter
their
setting
in
or
out
of
prison
in
any
situation
with
respect
and
and
to
afford
them
the
dignity
of
of
you
know
their.
I
mean
they
have
a
right
to
to
to
that.
G
So
I
I
want
to
split
some
hairs
for
the
purpose
of
of
making
sure
the
record
is
clear.
For
example,
you
said
the
eighth
amendment
guarantees
or
prohibits
lack
of
medical
care,
and-
and
you
know
the
reality
is
the
eighth
amendment
doesn't
say
anything
about
medical
care.
That
comes
from
a
case,
and
so
I
don't
know
how
many
cases
you
have
referred
to,
because
you
just
refer
to
the
ninth
circuit
and
my
guess
is:
there's
probably
several
cases.
Can
you
tell
us
what
those
cases
are.
F
And
ms
welburn,
certainly
if
you
don't
have
them
handy,
feel
free
to
email
us
any
citations
after
the
hearing
I
know
things
are
moving
fast
and
furious
at
this
space
yeah
and
have
them
handy,
please
feel
free
to
send
them
to
us.
After.
D
Sure-
and
I
can
right
now-
excuse
me
hollywellborn
aclu,
for
the
record.
I
can
direct
you
to
some
some
case
law
currently,
and
the
case
that
is
controlling
for
the
ninth
circuit
is
edmo
versus
corazon.
It's
a
case
that
comes
out
of
idaho
and
the
idaho
department
of
corrections,
the
disposition
of
that
case.
It
made
its
way
all
the
way
up
to
the
supreme
court
and
they
denied
cert,
and
so
currently
the
standing
law
is
under
corazon
and
what
that
case
determines.
D
It
goes
through
a
very
lengthy
analysis
of
what
we
refer
to
as
the
deliberate
indifference
standard
that,
when
the
department
of
corrections
or
any
you
know,
institution
you
know
violates
it
is
deliberately
indifferent
to
a
medical
necessity
that
there's
been
a
that
the
they've
shown
that
a
course
of
treatment
is
medically
unacceptable
that
a
person's
you
know
that
it's
been
shown
that
it's
medically
unacceptable
under
the
circumstances
and
that
the
department
of
corrections
or
whatever
other
other
entity
chose
this
course
consciously
and
in
conscious
disregard
and
an
excess
sex
and
excessive
risk
to
the
plaintiff's
health.
D
Then
they
have
been
deliberately
indifferent
in
violation
of
the
eighth
amendment
and
in
the
edmo
case
when
they
applied
that
to
the
individualized
circumstances
of
this
particular
plaintiff.
The
court
found
that,
in
this
case,
surgical
treatment
was
medically
necessary
for
that
individual
that
she
was
harming
herself
and
that
the
the
circumstances
arose
to
that
type
of
care
being
medically
necessary
for
edmo.
G
All
right,
and
so
as
we
look
at
the
edmo
and
I'm
familiar
with
the
case,
not
I'm
no
expert,
but
it's
been
a
while,
since
I've
read
it,
it
was
a
while
ago,
but
my
understanding
is
that
that
had
to
do
with
an
individual
for
sex
reassignment
surgery
and
the
department
of
corrections.
There
thought
that
that
was
as
a
recall.
G
It
wasn't
medically
necessary
under
the
definition
and
that
this
is
what
I'm
driving
at
is.
What
do
we
define
as
medically
necessary,
because
the
two
things
that
I've
heard
from
the
medical
community
is
an
argument
as
to
that,
but
they
had
found
or
idaho
had
said
that
this
isn't
you
know,
there's
no
emergency,
there's
no
harm.
If
this.
G
If,
if
this
person's
gender
isn't
physically
changed,
and
yet
he
had
a
doctor
who
said
that
he
would
suffer
irreparable
harm
if
it
wasn't,
and
that
was
the
basis
for
the
ninth
circuit
so
but
there's
still
apparently
an
open
question
as
to
what
is
medically
necessary.
F
A
This
is
senator
scheibel.
I
think
I
can
address
senator
picker's
question
and
holly
wildwood
may
be
able
to
address
it
as
well,
but
I
think
your
question
boils
down
to
what
does
it
mean
for
something
to
be
medically
necessary
and
it
is
a
term
of
art,
and
it
is
a
term
that
has
definitions
within
nevada
law
already
and
within
the
broader
medical
community.
A
I
think
that
you
sit
on
commerce
and
labor,
where
I
presented
a
similar
bill
about
covering
procedures
for
people
who
are
transgender
through
their
health
insurance
policy
and
medical
necessity
has
been
defined
most
recently,
or
I
think
most
what's
what
I'm
looking
for
comprehensively
by
the
wpath
standard
and
I'd
be
happy
to
share
that
with
this
committee
and
the
wpath
standard
outlines
the
things
that
make
something
medically
necessary
in
terms
of
the
difference
between
necessity
and
convenience
and
necessity
versus
desire
and
outlines
about
five
different
factors.
A
That
say
that
a
person
who
does
not
receive
this
treatment
will
continue
to
experience
the
negative
effects
of
whatever
it
is
that
ails
them,
whether
that
be
diabetes,
heart
disease,
gender,
dysphoria,
bipolar
disorder.
Whatever
that
condition
is
what
the
treatment
that
they
need
in
order
to
alleviate
the
symptoms
of
the
condition
are
medically
necessary
within
certain
boundaries.
They
have
to
be
the
procedures
that
are
well
established
and
accepted
within
the
medical
community.
They
have
to
be
a
procedure
that
the
person
is
prepared
to
undergo.
A
In
these
cases.
Often,
when
we're
talking
about
things
like
a
gender
affirmation,
surgery,
a
surgical
intervention,
definitely
the
definition
of
medically
necessary
would
encompass
a
process
through
which
that
person
has
to
meet
with
not
just
a
physical,
a
physician
who
specializes
in
plastic,
surgery
or
general
surgery,
but
also
with
a
mental
health
professional
with
a
psychiatrist
with
a
therapist
to
determine
whether
or
not
something
is
medically
necessary.
We
also
have
a
definition
of
medically
necessary
that
almost
exactly
mirrors
the
wpac
standard
in
the
medicaid.
A
In
medicaid,
in
the
nevada,
medicaid
policy,
and
so
I
I
would
think
that
most
people
who
are
in
the
custody
of
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
would
be
subject
to
the
medicaid
designation
of
medically
necessary,
which
is
pretty
much
what
I
just
outlined
for
wpath,
requiring
those
certain
elements
be
met
and
establishing
that
they
are
undergoing
a
treatment
that
is,
for
a
specific
purpose,
has
been
scientifically
proven
and
to
some
and
that
accounts
for
the
severity
of
the
treatment
versus
the
severity
of
the
symptoms.
A
The
availability
of
the
treatment
versus
the
severity
of
the
symptoms
and
the
and
encourages
a
team
of
medical
professionals
to
come
to
this
conclusion
about
what
would
be
necessary-
and
I
do
want
to
pass
over
to
ms
welborn,
who
I
think,
can
probably
provide
a
little
bit
more
depth
on
that.
D
D
That
is
what
most
medical
professionals
who
are
treating
a
person
with
gender
dysphoria
follow,
and
this
is
a
very
long
process,
and
it
could
be
that
you
know
that
surgical
procedures
are
kind
of
at
the
end
of
the
process
that
are
considered
once
a
person
has
gone
through
all
of
these
other
benchmarks,
and
what
we're
saying
with
this
bill
is
that
the
regulation
should
reflect
that
it
should
reflect.
You
know
the
openness
it
should
reflect.
D
G
Thank
you.
One
thing
that
you
know
we
we
talked
about
in
the
the
other
hearing
in
commerce
and
labor
was
that
the
wpath
standard
hasn't
actually
been
adopted
by
the
american
medical
association
or
by
the
state
of
nevada.
We've
we've
mirrored
segments,
but
we
seem
to
be
stopping
short
of
adopting
that.
How
many
people,
though,
are
we
actually
talking
about
how
how
many
people
are
is
going
to
be
caught
up
in
this.
D
F
And
I
believe
that
there,
if,
if
you
can
and
please
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
please
if
you
could
answer
that
question
I'd
be
great.
If
not,
could
you
let
do
you
mind
letting
us
know.
H
Good
afternoon,
vice
versa,
artists,
all
for
the
record,
deborah
strickland
nevada,
department
of
corrections,
agency
pre-coordinator
right
now,
we
have
probably
about
50
inmates
who
have
self-identified
as
transgender
of
those.
I
don't
know
how
many
have
been
diagnosed
with
gender
dysphoria.
That
would
be
a
medical
question
and
I
have
to
defer
to
dr
manev.
I
don't
know
if
he's
present
today.
G
F
Thank
you
senator
pickard
and
thank
you
miss
striplin.
I
understand
you're
here
to
speak
later
on
the
bill.
I
have
a
question
from
senator
hanson.
I
Thanks
vice
vice
chair
orange
roll,
actually,
my
a
new
question:
senator
picture
actually
got
a
couple
of
them
covered
for
miss
strickland,
ms
strickland
right
now.
If
they
are
transgender
and
their
biological
sex
is
male,
do
you
guys
put
them
in
the
in
the
female
correction
facilities
and
vice
versa,.
H
For
the
record,
deborah
striplin
nevada
department
of
corrections,
agency,
pre-a
coordinator,
currently
by
the
prisoner
rape,
elimination
act
standards,
we
do
case-by-case
reveal
reviews,
as
requested
by
a
transgender
person,
to
be
incarcerated
at
this
time.
We
do
not
have
anybody
housed
at
the
women's
facility,
that
is
a
trans
female,
but
we
have
done
approximately
10
reviews
on
a
case
by
case
to
consider
them
for
housing
at
the
female
facility.
I
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
and
my
next
question
actually
goes
to
legal.
I
need
to
know
just
be
anthony,
of
course,
under
section
five
two,
can
you
tell
me
the
legal
definition
of
transgender
gender
non-conforming,
gender
non-binary
and
intersex,
so
we
can
get
it
on
the
record
and
so
in
the
future.
We
know
exactly
what
we're
talking
about.
Please.
A
F
And
I
believe
that,
as
the
chair
stated,
senator
hansen,
those
are
they
are
defined
in
the
text
of
the
legislation.
I'm
not
sure
if
there's
any
additional
information
that
mr
anthony
can
provide.
But
if
there
is
I'm
happy
to
defer
to
mr
anthony,
if
there's
any
information
that
you
can
provide,
but
I
believe
that
that
is
they're
defined
here
in
the
text
of
the
legislation.
I
I
A
I
see
intersex
in
section
four,
a
condition
in
which
a
person
is
sorry
melanie
shy
before
the
record,
a
senator
from
district
nine,
a
condition
in
which
a
person
is
born
with
external
genitals,
internal
reproductive
organs,
chromosome
patterns
or
an
endocrine
system
that
does
not
conform
to
the
traditional
gender
binary
of
male
and
female
I'd
be
happy
to
follow
up
with
a
definition
of
transgender.
I
am
guessing
that
it
is
defined
elsewhere
in
the
nevada,
revised
statutes,
otherwise
it
would
have
been
included
in
this
bill,
but
I
I
can
check
on
that.
I
Okay,
well
I'll,
be
happy
to
take
that
offline
next
question
when
when
somebody
is
incarcerated
in
the
prison
system,
right
now,
do
they
have
to
make
a
declaration
of
what
they
are
at
the
time
that
they
come
in
and
also
if
they
do
make
a
declaration
of
say
they
they
say,
I'm
gender
non-binary.
I
Is
that
binding
on
them
for
their
entire
prison
stay
or
they
or
is
it
a
fluid
situation?
I
mean
somebody
can
claim
to
be
gender
non-binary
and
then
later
say
that
they're
intersex,
or
are
these
stationary
things
once
they're
actually
incarcerated
and
when,
in
fact
do
they
have
to
make
this
declaration.
F
H
For
the
record,
deborah
strickland
nevada
department
of
corrections,
agency,
pre-or
coordinator,
currently
by
the
prius
standards,
we
do
an
assessment,
we're
required
to
ask
all
incoming
inmates
how
they
identify
whether
it's
transgender
intersex
is
more
of
a
medical
term
that
somebody
whose
chromosomal
patterns
don't
match.
So
that's
more
of
a
medical
term.
H
It's
not
that
they
identify
they're
born
that
way.
So
if
someone
identifies
that
transgender,
it
is
fluid,
they
can
change
if
they
no
longer
identify
as
transgender
and
want
to
be
identified,
as
maybe
bisexual
or
gender
non-conforming.
I
That's
interesting
and
that
doesn't
seem
you
don't
see
that
as
any
kind
of
a
major
administrative
problem
down
the
road
that
some
prisoner
can
literally
claim
one
sexual
thing
at
one
point:
six
months
later
claim
another
one
and
six
months
later
claim
another
one
I
mean
that's
the
problem
with
part
of
this
stuff
is
like
it's
it.
It's
not.
You
know
you
can't
come
into
the
prison
system
and
claim
your
white
and
then
later
claim
your
black
or
something
because
those
are
obvious
characteristics.
I
Sexual
characteristics,
it
seems
to
me,
are
in
fact
fluid.
I'm
kind
of
wondering
we're
placing
a
tremendous
burden
on
you,
ms
striplin,
frankly,
to
make
all
these
determinations
and
then
not
get
sued,
and
up
to
you,
of
course,
to
set
up
medical
teams
of
health
care
professionals,
mental
health
care
professionals,
all
of
which
have
to
come
into
the
prison
system
and
do
evaluations
on
these
people
when,
in
fact,
the
individuals
are
able
to
later
change
what
they
felt
at
the
time
that
the
original
claim
was
made
it's
frankly.
I
I
just
think
this
is
putting
way
way
too
much
burden
on
the
department
of
corrections
in
in
in
some
exceptionally
fluid
situations
so
well.
Well,
mr
vice
vice
chair.
Thank
you
very
much.
I've
got
a
ton
of
questions,
but
I
don't
want
to
tie
up
all
the
time.
Thank
you.
J
Trying
to
make
sure
I'm
unmuted
sorry
about
that,
mr
vice
verse,
cheer.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
ask
a
question.
Like
senator
hanson,
I
can't
find
a
definition,
an
nrs
anywhere
of
transgender
I'm
just
curious.
How
does
this
bill
potentially
going
to
work
with
other
legislation
that
we
have
talking
about
solitary
confinement
because
isn't
it
common
with
individuals
with
intersex
or
transgenderness?
D
Holly
well-born
policy,
director
aclu
of
nevada.
I
can
take
a
first
crack
at
this
question.
D
So,
yes,
there
are
many
transgender
individuals
who
are
placed
in
either
protective
custody,
administrative,
administrative
segregation
or
some
level
of
segregation
within
the
prison
system,
and
it's
a
major
problem
because,
especially
when
there
are
freeze
frame
policies
in
place,
it
gets
in
the
way
of
a
person
being
able
to
progress
through
their
needed
medically
necessary
therapies
in
order
to
dive
through
you
know,
whatever
they
need
from
a
therapeutic
standpoint
to
determine
whether
or
not
they
are
eligible
for
whether
it's
hormone
therapy,
whether
it's
a
surgical
procedure
and
by
stalling
that
process,
we
do
end
up
leaving
people
in
an
isolation
cell
for
extended
periods
of
time.
D
So
until
a
person
can
progress
through
that,
they
will
remain
in
isolation
until
there's
new
policies
that
are
put
in
place.
And
so
that's
why
it's
imperative
that
we
allow
a
person
to
seek
the
medical
care
that
they
need.
J
I
appreciate
that,
if
I
could
have
a
follow-up,
please
mr
advice
by
chairman
in
that
respect,
have
there
been
any
studies
done
showing
decrease
or
how
it
affects
individuals
once
they
have
the
surgery,
whether
or
not
you
know
they
have
to
have
less?
You
know
care
you
know
psychologically
or
do
they
need
more?
Has
there
been
any
studs
studies
in
that
respect?
I
mean
we've
heard.
J
A
Us
this
is
melanie
scheibel
for
the
record
to
you
senator
selanger,
through
the
chair
sitting,
chair
orrin
shawl,
and
I
can
certainly
provide
you
with
some
of
those
resources
that
do
indicate
that
people
who
receive
proper
treatment,
experience,
fewer
medical
issues
and
those
are
often
psychosocial
issues,
and
so
that's.
You
know
my
fancy
way
of
saying
that
somebody
who
is
incarcerated,
who
identifies
as
transgender
and
is
not
getting
the
treatment
that
they
need,
is
likely
very
irritable.
They
might
be.
They
might
have
issues
with
rage.
A
They
like
they're,
not
getting
along
with
other
people
who
they
are
incarcerated
with.
They
might
be
fighting
with
guards
they're,
probably
extremely
depressed.
We've
seen
cases
of
people
who
engage
in
self-harm
and
when
they
get
treatment.
Those
things
stop
they
don't
you
know
it's
not
a
180
the
very
next
day
there
are
no
more
problems,
but
by
regulating
people's
emotional
health
through
the
treatment
of
their
gender
dysphoria,
we
do
see
that
they
become
able
to
interact
with
other
people
who
are
in
custody,
they're
able
to
listen
to
guards
better.
A
They
are
able
to
engage
in
the
programming
that
the
department
of
corrections
offers,
and
so
that's
why
I
want
to
remind
the
committee
also
that
this
is
not.
First
of
all,
this
is
a
broad
mandate
to
end
off.
It
doesn't
say
you
have
to
cover
this
paul.
You
have
to
cover
this
surgery
and
you
have
to
provide
these
hormones.
It
says
you
have
to
have
a
policy.
A
Maybe
there
are
a
few
who
need
actual
surgical
sex
reassignment
or
gender
affirmation
surgery
in
order
to
treat
their
symptoms,
but
for
some
of
them
it
might
just
be
a
meeting
with
a
counselor
once
a
week.
It
might
just
be
having
access
to
tampons
at
the
commissary,
even
though
they're
housed
in
the
men's
prison,
so
that
they're
not
bleeding
into
their
garments
while
they
are
in
custody.
Things
like
that
that
we
aren't
talking
about
on
a
broad
scale.
We
can
do
at
in
at
very
low
cost
to
the
prison.
I
Thanks,
my
question
actually
goes
to
ms
striplin.
I
We
just
kind
of
got
a
perspective
that
apparently
the
nevada
department
corrections
does
not
have
a
current
policy
and
if
you
do
have
a
current
policy,
was
it
reviewed
by
any
of
these
bill
sponsors
and,
and
where
is
the
lack
of
conformity
between
your
current
policy
and
the
policy
required
in
this
new
law?
Assuming
it
passes.
H
H
So
we
do
follow
multiple
guidelines.
We
do
have
a
policy
which
is
the
prison
rape,
elimination
act
policy,
the
only
and
for
the
record
department
of
corrections
is
neutral
on
this
bill.
Currently
we
do
maintain
the
majority
of
the
definitions
that
are
listed
in
this
bill.
The
only
one
in
reviewing
this
bill
that
we
don't
have
in
current
policy
is
gender
non-binary,
which
that
that's
easy.
H
If
we
need
to
fix
that,
we
also
have
training
issue,
training
requirements
that
were
provided
to
address
communicating
effectively
with
all
inmates
to
include
to
include
lgbti
offenders,
the
prison,
rape,
elimination
act,
guidelines
came
out,
and
so
some
of
these
very
same
things
that
are
in
this
bill.
We
have
already
been
addressing
for
almost
eight
years
now.
I
Wow,
so
you've
already
been
doing
these
policies
for
eight
years
and
the
only
issue
in
this
bill-
that's
new
actually
is
binary
stuff.
Did
anybody
actually,
in
the
bill's
sponsorship,
get
a
hold
of
you
or
the
department
of
corrections
to
make
sure
that
the
bill
actually
was
not
simply
repetitive
of
policies
that
are
already
in
place.
A
F
A
Thank
you
and
again
for
the
record.
This
is
melanie
scheible
senate
district
9
and
the
sponsor
of
sb258.
I
did
reach
out
to
the
nevada
department
of
corrections.
I
have
had
several
meetings
with
members
of
the
nevada
department
of
corrections,
administrative
team.
I
have
not
had
the
pleasure
of
meeting
with
ms
striplin
one
on
one.
I
have
met
with
director
daniels
about
this
issue.
I
D
Thank
you,
senator
orenshaw
holly
welborn
policy,
director
aclu
nevada,
for
the
record.
I
want
to
point
out
that,
yes,
there
is
a
policy
administrative
regulation
494
that
used
to
delineate
every
aspect
that
we're
talking
about
today.
Since
then,
that
policy
had
been
gutted
and
then
now
refers
to.
I
believe
it's
eight
different
administrative
regulations
and
medical
directive
121..
D
So
in
our
review
of
this
and
when
we've
gone
to
the
board
of
prison
commissioners
meetings
and
have
testified
at
those
meetings,
you
know
to
ensure
that
the
policies
do
come
into
compliance
with
ninth
circuit
case
law
and
with
best
practices
standards.
They
are
still
falling
short
and
we
have
several
letters.
We
have
letters
to
the
department
of
correction
dating
back
from
2016.
D
One
is
as
soon
as
2017
and
we
testified
at
the
last
board
of
prison
commissioners
meeting
when
this
subject
was
on
the
agenda,
I'm
happy
to
send
all
of
that
correspondence
to
the
committee
for
your
records
and
for
background.
We
had
pointed
out
on
numerous
occasions
the
insufficiency
of
existing
policies.
So,
while
there
are
policies
that
exist,
there
are
issues
with
them
and
so,
for
example,
the
medical
directive
still
provides
for
skin
screenings
by
opposite
sex
correctional
staff,
without
considering
whether
or
not
that
is
appropriate.
D
For
that
particular
individual
and
from
our
perspective
that
is
pria
non-compliant
and
we've
testified
on
the
record
at
the
board
of
prison
commissioners
meetings
to
that
effect,
then
there
are
several
other
policies
that
have
not
been
updated
since
and
those
are
the
administrative
regulations
that
the
current
ar
494
refers
to
that
have
not
been
updated
since
2015
that
address
things
like
access
to.
You
know,
clothing
undergarments,
you
know
different,
you
know,
needs
that
that
particular
individual
might
have
that
need
to
be
updated
and
that
haven't
been
updated.
D
I
I
I
know
they're
in
neutral
position,
but
the
impression
I
got
is
that
they
have
a
humane
policy
in
place
now
and
that
there
has
been
no
lawsuits
by
the
aclu
or
others
to
force
them
to
try
to
reach
some
new
level
of
compliance
and,
in
fact,
they've
done
a
remarkable
good
job
under
the
circumstances.
So
anyway,
thank
you
very
much,
mr
abaya's
vice
chair.
F
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
I
do
believe
that
we
have.
We
have
one
more
question
in
the
queue
and
then
I
think
we'll
have
department
of
corrections,
also
testifying
in
the
neutral
position.
So
senator
picker.
G
The
dna
tells
you
what
the
sex
is
that
we're
not
talking
about
we're
talking
about
a
biological
fact.
Now
that
differs.
Of
course,
the
the
medical
community
also
says
that
there
is
such
a
thing
as
gender
dysphoria
we've
seen
that
it's
in
the
dsm
for
pete's
sake.
So
what
standard
are
we
going
to
make
the
doc
ndoc
follow?
G
D
Thank
you,
senator
orrin
shaw,
holly,
welborn,
aclu
of
nevada.
For
the
record.
I
I
want
to
go
back.
I
will
address
that
question,
but
I
do
want
to
address
that.
There
have
has
been
litigation
filed
against
the
department
of
correction
for
failure
to
come
into
compliance
with
ninth
circuit
standards,
and
you
know
we
can't
talk
too
much
about
that,
because
I
think
that
there
there's
some
confidentiality
provisions
in
those
settlements,
but
as
of
right
now
those
policies
have
not
been
changed.
The
last
time
medical
directive,
121,
was
updated.
D
It
was
reviewed
in
october
of
2019,
and
that
was
after
the
edmond
decision,
but
no
changes
were
made
to
the
medical
directive,
so
the
last
time
that
the
medical
directive
was
updated
was
october
17th
of
2018,
and
that
is
prior
to
the
edmo
decision.
D
So
I
want
to
to
make
clear
that
the
current
directive,
from
from
our
perspective,
is
not
in
compliance
with
this
jurisdiction's
case
law,
and
so
there
do
need
to
be
tweaks
and
updates
to
it
to
ensure
that
it
is-
and
we
have
been
very
clear
about
that
on
the
record,
with
the
board
of
prison
commissioners
at
their
meetings
when
this
has
been
on
the
agenda.
So
I
want
to
make
sure
that
that
is
clear
as
far
as
as
those
standards.
I
think
that
is
the
standard
you
know
right
now.
Edmo
is
controlling.
D
We
need
to
ensure
that
these
policies,
whether
it
be
medical
directive
121
or
whether
it
be
the
other
administrative
regulations
that
are
cited
in
administrative
regulation,
494
to
ensure
that
we
that
they're
written
in
a
constitutionally
adequate
manner-
and
you
know
we'll-
continue
working
with
the
department-
the
reason
that
the
aclu
has
not
filed
litigation
at
this
time.
We
did.
We
had
I'll,
send
those
letters
to
the
committee
prior
excuse
me
after
this
meeting,
but
we
did
issue
letters.
D
You
know
demand
letters
notifying
the
department
that
they,
you
know
that
these
these
regulations
were
out
of
compliance
and
that's
even
prior
to
the
edmo
decision,
and
then
you
know
we.
It
went
through
a
series
of
case
law.
There
were
some
other
law
firms
that
took
up
those
those
lawsuits
and
there
was
some
success
with
those
in
trying
to
push
forward
and
getting
these
ars
in
compliance
with
the
ninth
circuit.
Thank
you.
G
I
I'd
like
the
answer
to
my
question
and
that
is
what
standard
I
mean
miss
welborn.
I
I
certainly
appreciate
your
perspective.
Aclu
takes
positions
on
many
issues
and,
and
you
know
you
win
some-
you
lose
some.
Sometimes
you
get
regulations
to
comply
with
your
desires
or
your
your
interpretation
of
whether
or
not
something's
in
compliance,
and
sometimes
you
don't,
but
the
aclu
is
not
the
one
that
is
going
to
create
a
standard
that
the
ndoc
then
has
to
follow.
F
G
I
don't
know
where
you
lost
me,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
the
bill
doesn't
have
doesn't
contain
a
standard.
The
aclu
doesn't
create
a
binding
standard
on
ndoc
ndoc
under
the
commission.
Has
the
regulations
in
place
that
they
then
have
to
follow,
and
so
I
don't
see
an
end
to
this
spiral
here.
If
we've
got
to
either
have
a
standard
that
we
live
by,
which
it
sounds
like
we
have,
the
commission
has
created
the
has
promulgated,
the
regulations
created
the
standard.
G
F
And
I
I
apologize,
but
I'm
just
going
to
maybe
add
my
question
on
to
to
for
ms
welburn,
whoever
liked
to
handle
it,
but
if
we
don't
come
into
compliance
with
the
9th
circuit
case
law,
isn't
there
a
danger
that
a
federal
master
may
may
dictate
these
things
instead
of
allowing
us
to
to
decide
these
and
come
into
compliance?
I
think
that
would
be
my
fear.
So
I'm
throwing
an
additional
question.
Yeah
no.
A
Address
this,
this
is
melanie
scheible
for
the
record
state,
senator
from
district
9
and
sponsor
of
sb
258,
and
I
think
that
this
is
part
of
the
legislative
process
to
direct
the
department
of
corrections
to
meet
a
new
standard
to
develop
a
new
standard
which
is
higher
than
their
current
standard,
and
we
could
have
written
the
bill
to
adopt
the
text
of
the
edmo
decision.
But
that
would
just
not
be
good
policy
because
it
doesn't
account
for
the
uniqueness
of
nevada.
A
It
doesn't
allow
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
to
develop
a
policy
that
fits
within
their
other
policies,
and
so
I
think
that
we
have
a
an
understanding
with
nevada
department
of
corrections.
I'll
I'll
note
that
their
fiscal
note,
while
it
is
zero,
does
indicate
that
they
think
that
they
will
have
to
make
a
policy
change
in
order
to
comply
with
the
mandates
of
sb258.
A
They
will
have
to
start
training
their
staff
in
more
cultural
competence.
If
this
is
passed,
they
will
have
to
develop
a
new
medical
directive
if
this
is
passed,
and
that
is
what
I,
as
a
member
of
the
legislature,
am
asking
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
to
do
because
the
current
standards,
I
think,
are
deficient,
I
think
they're
both
deficient
legally
and
deficient
from
a
policy
perspective,
and
so
with
the
piece
of
legislation.
We
can
only
do
so
much.
I
am
not
taking
the
words
directly
from
edmo.
A
I
am
not
taking
the
words
from
the
w
path.
I
am
not
taking
the
words
from
another
state
that
I
think
do
meet
the
standards
of
the
ninth
circuit
and
telling
endoc
to
adopt
those
verbatim.
What
I
am
asking
them
to
do
is
to
raise
the
level
of
the
standards
that
they
have
for
caring
for
and
treating
people
with
gender
non-conforming
gender
non-binary
gender
dysphoria
symptoms
in
a
way
that
is
better
than
it
currently
is,
and
the
the
standards
are
set
forth
in
section
5..
A
A
E
I
don't
know
if
this
is
for
you
or
for
someone
at
the
department
of
corrections,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
this
bill
is
designed
to
raise
the
level
of
care
for
a
few
inmates,
but
I
haven't
heard
anything
on
the
record
that
this
would
be
also
simultaneously,
let's
say,
require
any
lessened
care
for
any
other
inmate
or
cause
any
harm
to
any
other
inmates,
and
I
just
want
to
be
clear
it
does
this
bill
have
any
negative
implications
for
any
current
inmates.
A
I
will
take
that
one
melanie
scheible
for
the
record
senate
district,
nine,
and
certainly
I
I
hope
ms
driplin
will
weigh
in
here
as
well.
But
I
think
that
this
is
an
example
where
it's
not
a
zero-sum
game.
So
no,
we
are
not
taking
away
care
rights,
respect
dignity
for
anybody
else
in
order
to
ensure
that
we
are
securing
it
for
the
community
identified
in
this
bill.
E
No,
if
miss
striplin
has
a
a
view.
I'd
love
to
hear
it,
but
no
follow-up.
H
For
the
record,
deborah
striplin
nevada
department
of
corrections
agency
prior
coordinator,
I
agree
with
chair
scheible.
I
think
this
enhances
our
current
policy.
It
doesn't
impact
any
other
inmates.
It
just
makes
it
better
for
those
who
identify
as
transgender
intersex
gender
non-binary.
I
I
think
it
makes
improvements
and
that's
why
we
remain
neutral
on
the
bill.
H
F
Thank
you
right.
If
there's
no
other
presenters,
I
would
like
to
move
on
to
others
in
support
of
the
measure,
and
I
don't
think
there's
anyone
else
on
zoom,
but
if
there
is
anyone
else
on
zoom,
please
turn
on
your
camera
and
I'll
take
other
other
folks
would
like
to
speak
in
support
of
the
measure
again,
two
minutes
per
speaker
and
if
there's
no
one
on
zoom,
who
wishes
to
speak
in
support,
then
broadcasting.
If
we
can
go
to
the
phone
lines
for
testimony
in
support
of
senate
bill
258.
K
K
B
Gender
diverse
inmates
deserve
to
be
treated
with
dignity
when,
under
the
custody
of
the
state,
trans
people
are
disproportionately
subjected
to
mistreatment,
neglect,
violence
and
harassment,
and
the
department
of
corrections
should
establish
interventions
to
prevent
mistreatment
while
under
custody
by
establishing
regulations
and
training
for
staff
founded
in
evidence-based
practices
in
effective
intervention
and
case
management.
With
the
addition
of
trans
cultural
competency,
we
can
improve
the
conditions
for
gender,
diverse
prisoners
and
prevent
mistreatment.
K
K
K
E
Hi
everyone,
my
name,
is
jamila
lewis,
spelled
j-a-m-e-e-l-a-h
last
name
louis
l-e-w-I-s,
I'm
a
community
advocate
activist
and
I'm
a
pre-advocate,
so
my
opinion
does
not
reflect
any
of
my
agencies
or
out
of
my
job.
I
would
just
like
to
say
that
I
do
stand
in
support
of
this
bill,
not
only
in
solidarity
with
my
trans
friends
and
inmates
who
have
returned
home,
but
also
with
my
clients
that
I
currently
do
have
within
ndoc.
E
I
think
that
this
bill
will
expand
and
bring
them
all
benefits
specifically
for
those
who
are
needing
gender
confirm
confirming
surgery
specifically
for
those
who
are
being
harassed
specifically
for
those
who
are
looking
for
services,
post
incarceration
and
looking
for
medical
attention
and
emotional
support.
Now
I
think
that
this
bill
will
do.
I
can't
even
say
it.
I
don't
have
the
words.
It
will
do
a
monumental
amount
of
great
great
great
things
for
people
who
identify
as
trans
and
gender
diverse.
E
K
K
B
A-L-L-I-S-O-N-R-O-S-A-S,
I
am
the
policy
specialist
intern
for
the
nevada
coalition
to
end
domestic
and
sexual
violence.
I'm
here
today
to
express
our
support
of
sb
258
transgender
people
face
higher
rates
of
poverty,
stigma
and
marginalization
and
whether
incarcerated
or
not
puts
them
at
greater
risk
for
sexual
assault
and
hate-motivated
violence.
B
However,
while
incarcerated
lgbtq
inmates
are
substantially
more
likely
to
face
violence
and
abuse
more
often
than
their
cisgender
counterparts,
according
to
the
u.s
transgender
survey,
transgender
people
are
10
times
more
likely
to
be
sexually
assaulted
by
other
inmates
in
the
facility
and
five
times
more
likely
to
be
sexually
assaulted
by
staff.
In
addition
to
sexual
assault,
research
has
shown
that
transgender
people
in
prison
face
a
number
of
other
challenges,
included
being
denied
medical
care,
verbal
abuse
and
lengthy
stays
and
lengthy
stays
in
solitary
confinement.
B
This
treatment
can
lead
to
higher
rates
of
depression
and
mental
illness,
self-harm
and
suicide.
Attempts.
This
spell
is
detrimental
to
the
physical,
emotional
and
spiritual
well-being
of
the
transgender
community,
currently
incarcerated,
to
protect
the
health
and
safety
of
transgender
people
in
prison.
It
is
crucial
that
the
department
of
corrections
staff
receive
adequate
and
accurate
training
to
protect
the
health
and
safety
of
transgender
people
in
prison.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
attention
to
this
matter.
K
E
L-I-S-A-R-A-S-M-U-S-F-E-N,
I'm
here
today,
speaking
on
behalf
of
nacj
and
also
on
behalf
of
my
own
law
firm.
You
know.
I've
listened
to
the
testimony
and
I'll
listen
to
the
questions,
and
one
of
the
misconceptions
seems
to
be
that
we
already
have
a
policy
and
we
don't
need
this
statute.
Let
me
tell
you
why
we
do
need
this
statute.
E
E
E
Well,
it
happens
to
be
my
trans
female
client
who
would
love
to
be
transferred
to
a
female
prison,
but
she's
been
denied
that
request
every
single
time
and
then
in
another
one
of
my
cases
I
had
a
client
request.
While
her
federal
lawsuit
was
pending
and
still
is
pending
a
kite,
she
requested
a
kite
which
is
something
you
request
so
that
you
can
say.
May
I
go
see
the
doctor?
She
was
handed
a
mock
kite.
E
That's
called
a
hurt,
feelings
kite.
It
has
a
form
and
it
requests
that
she
put
her
name
in
the
place
of
where
it
says:
winer's,
name
that
she
put
the
date.
Her
feelings
were
hurt
the
time
her
feelings
were
hurt,
the
name
of
the
real
man
who
hurt
her
feelings
and
then
it
said
reason
for
leaving
this
report.
You
could
check
a
box
that
says
I
am
thin
skinned.
I
am
a
wimp.
I
have
woman-like
hormones.
E
I
am
a
crybaby,
I
want
my
mommy.
My
feelings
are
easily
hurt,
and
then
it
says,
under
the
narrative
box,
tell
us
in
your
own
fifty
words
how
your
feelings
were
hurt
and
then,
finally,
it
cautions
that
repeatedly
filling
out
this
form
might
end
in
or
result
in
wall-to-wall
counseling
which,
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know,
is
a
military
term
for
basically
beating
people
into
compliance.
E
E
I'm
sure
that
she
would
love
to
have
the
benefit
of
a
statue
that
gives
the
department
of
correction
additional
guidance,
but
no
one
can
say
that
there's
no
problem,
there
are
lots
of
lawsuits
floating
around
and
several
of
them
happen
to
be
my
client.
What
is
happening
to
these
trans
inmates
in
the
department
of
corrections
is
a
tragedy.
K
K
B
B
Although
the
ndoc
has
made
updates
to
their
medical
directive,
it
continues
to
suggest
that
at
any
time
they
may
discontinue
or
refuse
to
initiate
treatment
of
hormone
therapy
during
a
person's
incarceration,
regardless
of
medical
need.
These
regulations
conflict
with
the
prevailing
standards
of
care
senate
bill
258,
is
a
necessary
piece
of
legislation
to
oppose
a
deadline
for
ngoc
to
adopt
regulations
that
comport
with
prevailing
standards
of
care
and
to
ensure
that
all
transgender
and
gender
non-conforming
incarcerated
people
in
nevada
have
access
to
appropriate
medical
care.
Thank
you.
K
L
Good
afternoon,
chair
melanie
schaible
and
senate
committee
on
judiciary.
Thank
you
for
this
time.
For
the
record,
my
name
is
jasmine.
Margarita
tobin
t,
as
in
tom
oh,
be
as
in
boy
and
as
a
nancy
I
go
by
jazz.
I
am
an
organizer
with
planned
parenthood
votes,
nevada,
planned
parenthood
votes,
nevada
is
in
favor
of
fb
258..
L
I
urge
you
to
think
of
the
inmates
sitting
in
our
correctional
facilities
right
now.
It
is
no
secret
that
transgender
gender
non-conforming
and
lgbtq
plus
nevadans
face
discrimination
at
the
hands
of
correctional
staff
for
their
gender
identity
and
expression,
with
little
to
no
legal
protection,
as
was
touched
on
by
a
previous
caller.
The
trauma
inflicted
upon
transgender
non-binary
and
gender
non-conforming
inmates
is
avoidable,
with
adequate
training
and
resources.
L
K
M
My
name
is
jay
burkholtz,
that's
j-b-u-r-k-h-o-l-z.
I
am
reading
testimony
from
inmate
rachel
whitted
r-a-c-h-e-l,
w.
M
This
has
been
edited
for
brevity
and
clarity.
There
is
a
lot
of
discrimination
that
transgender
and
women
in
prison
have
to
deal
with.
We
have
to
shower
around
male
prisoners.
We
also
get
harassed
all
of
the
time
by
inmates
and
staff.
They
label
us
and
put
things
in
our
file
that
cause
us
to
have
a
problem
getting
a
roommate.
They
put
us
in
a
dorm
setting
when
out
in
the
main
yard.
M
There
are
times
that
we
are
jumped
or
beaten
because
of
who
we
are
other
prisoners,
pass
us
around
and
touch
our
body
and
our
breasts.
I
was
approved
for
sex
reassignment
surgery,
but
they
told
me
it
isn't.
In
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
policies,
they
are
basing
everything
on
sex
assigned
at
birth
and
not
gender
identity.
They
refuse
to
let
us
contact
and
work
with
a
speech
therapist
and
said
we
cannot
do
virtual
sessions.
M
The
prison
does
not
consider
our
dysphoria
or
treat
it
as
a
serious
medical
condition.
I
have
no
lights
in
myself.
We
are
treated
differently
than
the
other
prisoners.
They
give
the
main
yard
regular
milk
and
give
us
some
segregation
powder
milk.
They
won't
use
our
chosen
names.
I've
had
to
tell
staff
I've
had
staff.
Tell
me
that
if
I
am
claiming
to
be
a
woman
and
if
bad
things
happen,
then
I
just
have
to
live
with
it
and
let
it
go.
I've
been
verbally
and
sexually
harassed
by
inmates
and
staff.
M
I've
even
had
inmates
tell
me
to
sell
up
with
them,
so
they
can
sexually
assault.
Me
staff
will
stare
at
us
in
our
cell
while
we're
sitting
down
using
the
restroom.
We
are
not
afforded
basic
human
rights
while
in
prison.
This
is
my
statement
that
I
want
to
be
brought
to
the
community,
so
they
know
the
truth
of
what
we
have
to
deal
with
every
day
in
a
men's,
prison
signed,
miss
rachel,
marie
wooded.
K
K
K
K
K
N
N
This
testimony
has
also
been
edited
for
brevity
and
clarity.
My
name
is
daisy
lynn
meadows
and
I
am
an
inmate
in
nevada
department
of
corrections
custody.
I
am
a
female,
as
confirmed
by
dr
marvin
alviso,
the
efforts
of
solitary
excuse
me.
The
effects
of
solitary
confinement
and
of
a
woman
in
the
males
facility
have
devastating
psychological
and
physical
effects
well
documented
by
social
scientists,
lawyers
and
activists.
You
have
to
be
a
really
strong
woman
in
a
men's
facility.
N
N
N
N
I'm
sure
some
people
think
why
can't
daisy
just
pretend
to
be
a
man
just
to
keep
herself
safe.
I
can't
pretend
to
be
a
man
any
more
than
any
other
woman.
I've
attempted
multiple
times
to
have
my
name
and
gender
marker
change,
but
have
been
refused
and
treated
with
hostility
from
ndoc
in
the
courts.
My
crimes
haunt
me
and
I
have
the
utmost
respect
for
my
victims
and
their
privacy.
They
have
been
put
through
enough
and
shall
not
have
to
relive
what
I
put
them
through,
which
is
why
I
accepted
a
plea
bargain.
N
I
am
not
in
any
way
innocent
and
take
full
responsibility
for
my
wrongdoings
and
offer
my
sincerest
apologies
and
regrets.
I
am
sorry
for
what
I
did,
however,
being
raped,
beaten,
physically
assaulted,
oppressed,
tortured,
harassed
and
forced
to
be
someone.
I
am
not
was
never
a
part
of
my
sentence
for
17
days,
a
male
cellmate
repeatedly,
raped
and
tortured
me
in
horrific
ways.
I
was
seriously
injured.
N
K
K
B
There's
definite
steps
that
need
to
be
taken,
and
this
is
a
first
step
in
the
right
direction,
or
protecting
transgender
people
behind
prison
doors.
If
we're
going
to
incarcerate
folks,
we
need
to
provide
for
their
protection,
and
all
this
bill
does
is
supplement
and
make
the
program
better.
It
provides
a
mandate,
and
after
hearing
that
last
testimony,
I
don't
know
how
we
could
not
make
a
mandate
to
protect
our
transgender
community
behind
bars.
B
K
K
E
This
bill
would
ensure
transgender
people
are
provided
an
inclusive,
gender,
affirming,
dignified,
safe
and
secure
living
environment.
We
know
that
failing
to
provide
appropriate
treatments
can
cause
can
have
serious
implications
on
incarcerated
patients,
medical
and
mental
health.
That
is
why
silver
state
equality
supports
sb
258,
and
we
respectfully
urge
you
to
do
the
same.
Thank
you
so
much.
K
E
Hello
good
afternoon,
senator
tribal
and
members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
sai
burnaby
f-y-b-e-r-n-a-b-e-I,
I'm
a
trans
masculine
person
and
the
executive
director
of
gender
justice
nevada,
which
is
a
local
community
based
organization
that
champions
the
rights,
gender,
diverse
people.
We
also
facilitate
trans
ally
training,
to
increase
awareness
about
who
we
are
as
gender
diverse
people
and
why
inclusive
care
is
literally
life-saving.
E
Anyone
who
would
like
to
know
more
about
those
trainings
could
reach
out
to
me
and
we
can
facilitate
that
conversation.
Gender
dysphoria
is
very
real,
but
also
very
different
for
all
trans
people.
For
me,
it
caused
immense
depression
and
I
chose
to
have
top
surgery,
which
is
a
removal
of
breast
tissue
to
feel
constant
in
my
own
body
as
a
trans
person,
I
am
scared
to
death
of
being
incarcerated
because
of
the
statistical
higher
probability
of
physical,
emotional
and
sexual
violence,
and
also
not
having
access
to
gender.
E
K
O
This
is
an
extremely
important
bill
and
I'm
very
grateful
for
senator
scheible
and
holly
well-born
of
bringing
this
forward.
It
has
stated
some
extremely
important
things.
O
I
think
that
it's
also
important
to
clarify
some
points
in
that
the
term
transgender
is
a
commonly
used
understood
term
by
the
greater
masses
of
the
world,
besides
just
those
in
the
legal
community
trans,
but
coming
from
the
derivative
of
the
latin
name,
meaning
crossing
over
as
in
crossing
over
gender.
When
we
use
the
term
cisgender,
it
means
the
same
as
as
in
cisgender
commonly
used
scientific
terms
from
the
latin
a
that.
O
O
When
we
look
at
intersex
people
in
particular,
we
see
xy
chromosomes
going
on
with
external
female
genitalia,
quite
often
in
terms
of
androgen
and
sensitivity
syndrome.
There
are
multiple
different
conditions.
There
are
over
70
different
permutations
of
of
x
y
or
x,
x,
y
or
x,
x,
x,
different
kinds
of
chromosomes,
so
to
come
out
with
a
statement
that
dna
is
going
to
prove
one
biology
or
a
different
biology
is
simply
fallacious.
O
You
know
again,
this
is
a
bill
that
is
to
be
able
to
provide
guidelines
for
the
for
staff
and
for
inmates
and
their
families,
so
that
there
can
be
an
expectation
of
how
treatment
is
supposed
to
be
meted
out,
not
like
the
willy-nilly.
Let's
bend
the
rules,
because
we
have
a
policy
that
goes
back
20
years
and
let's
try
to
be
able
to
bend
it
to
our
will
or
not
follow
certain
things
and
we'll
change
them
monday
from
tuesday
as
to
whether
we're
going
to
call
somebody
by
a
different
name.
O
So,
let's
get
away
from
the
hate
calls
that
are
that
have
been
happening
and
let's
concentrate
on
creating
a
consistent
message
for
the
community
and
treatment
within
the
department
of
corrections
that
meets
the
federal
guidelines
that
so
that
everyone
has
the
the
possibility
to
be
able
to
succeed
under
these
things
and
not
have
this
vagary.
That
is
con.
That
has
been
happening
for
years.
F
K
L
E
Urge
your
support
of
this
bill,
fellow
nevadans,
are
presently
suffering
under
the
current
policies.
This
bill
simply
ensures
that
the
policies
are
created
to
comply
with
constitution
and
ninth
circuit
case
law.
This
is
just
one
step
to
ensuring
that
those
policies
are
enacted
and
then
also
followed
and
ensuring
that
we
don't
have
someone
who
just
goes
ahead
and
reduces
the
requirements
or
reduces
the
humane
treatment
that
we
should
be
providing
to
every
single
person
who
is
in
custody.
E
We've
already
heard
in
this
committee
the
problems
that
arise
when
regulations
are
not
codified,
regardless
of
the
person's
circumstances.
Everyone
in
custody
is
a
person
who
deserves
to
be
treated
communally.
The
rights
of
every
man,
as
john
f
kennedy
said,
are
diminished
when
the
rights
of
one
man
are
threatened.
We
urge
your
support.
F
Thank
you
very
much
broadcasting
broadcasting.
If
there's
anyone
in
the
queue
who
would
like
to
speak
in
opposition
to
senate
bill
258,
please
we're
allowing
two
minutes
per
speaker.
K
Thank
you
senator
if
you'd
like
to
give
opposition
testimony
on
senate
bill
258,
please
press
star
nine
now
to
take
your
place
in
the
queue.
Once
again,
we
are
currently
on
opposition
testimony
for
senate
bill
258.
If
you'd
like
to
provide
opposition
testimony
at
this
time,
please
press
star
nine
now
to
take
your
place
in
the.
K
K
C
C
Chair
scheible
stated
that
the
reason
for
this
bill
is
that
we
need
a
more
robust
policy.
Holly
wellborn
from
the
aclu
stated
that
keeping
transgenders
in
isolation.
Solidarity
confinement
is
a
major
problem
and
this
will
continue
until
new
policies
are
put
in
place.
I
assume
that
means
until
this
legislation,
sb
258
is
adopted
and
implemented.
We
heard
testimony
from
an
attorney
that
represents
transgender
clients
that
transgender
clients
would
love
to
be
transferred
to
women's
prisons.
Yes,
that
is
the
goal.
C
Excuse
me,
that
is
the
goal
of
sb
258
to
house
transgenders
in
nevada,
nevada's
women's
prison
will
sp
258
mean
that
biological
men
will
be
housed
with
biological
women
in
prisons.
How
will
women
be
protected
from
rape
and
sexual
abuse
if
biological
men
are
housed
with
women
in
prison?
How
will
biological
women
be
protected
from
mental
harm
if
they
are
housed
with
biological
men
in
prison?
How
will
this
impact
the
physical
and
mental
health
of
women
in
prison
if
inmates
can
change
their
identity
identified
sex
while
in
prison?
C
Does
sb
258
give
an
incentive
for
biological
men
to
claim
to
be
transgenders
in
order
to
be
housed
with
biological
women?
We
heard
testimony
that
there
are
between
four
and
fifty
transgenders
in
nevada's
prison
system.
There
are
1200
women
as
of
in
2018
in
nevada's
prison.
How
many
women
will
be
negatively
impact
by
being
housed
in
prison
with
biological
men?
Please
oppose
sb
258.
Thank
you.
K
K
E
Yes,
this
is
karen
england,
with
nevada,
family
alliance,
k-a-r-e-n,
e-n-g
l-a-n-d,
and
I'm
calling
to
oppose
sb
258.
I
want
to
be
clear
that
I
am
not
opposed
to
inmates
getting
regular
medical
treatment
or
or
any
kind
of
medical
treatment.
I
sympathize
with
someone
who
is
struggling
with
gender
dysphoria.
By
no
means
do
I
pose
the
portion
of
this
bill
that
allows
them
to
get
medical
treatment,
but
this
bill
goes
way
beyond
that.
Ms
strickland
talked
about
this
with
senator
hanson's
questions
and
that
self-identifying
is
the
way
that
these
prisoners
get
diagnosed.
E
They
do
not
need
to
go
through
gender
reassignment
to
be
considered
transgender,
gender
non-conforming
or
gender
non-conforming,
but
this
regulation
allows
them
to
assert
to
self-identify
and
once
they
self-identify
hermes
strickland's
testimony,
they
are
allowed
housing
with
the
the
biology
with
which
they
identify
with
senator
harris
mentioned
that
she
has
not
heard
of
causes
of
any
other
inmates.
Having
harm
with
this
idea
that
a
biological
male
would
assert
himself
to
be
a
female
and
get
to
go
into
the
female
prisons
again,
I
have
compassion
for
someone
that
is
struggling
with
gender
dysphoria.
E
However,
the
answer
is
not
to
infringe
on
the
right
to
privacy
and
safety
of
the
other
prisoners,
particularly
the
female
prisoners
that
are
going
to
suffer
under
this
they've
already.
You
know
testified
that,
oh
so
far,
there
are
no
problems.
Well,
that's
because
they
haven't
really
made
this
a
far
and
widespread
policy
that
this
this
committee
is
currently
considering.
E
F
K
K
A
In
closing,
I
would
like
to
thank
the
committee
for
their
time
and
their
consideration.
I
will
also
point
out
that
this
bill
is,
as
we
discussed
during
the
question.
Question
portion
of
the
presentation
is
somewhat
broad.
It
doesn't
say
that
the
nevada
department
of
corrections
has
to
house
any
particular
person
in
any
particular
place.
A
I
also
can't
imagine
that
it
is
easy
to
contend
with
being
incarcerated
and
so
to
do
both
at
the
same
time
sounds
like
an
incredibly
challenging
time
for
any
person
to
overcome,
and
so
for
us
to
make
that
more
difficult
is
simply
simply
cruel.
F
Thank
you,
chair
scheible,
for
presenting
the
bill.
Thank
you,
ms
welborn.
I
appreciate
your
testimony
on
on
this
on
this
important
legislation.
A
Thank
you
so
much
and
we
are
going
to
change
gears
quite
drastically
to
talk
about
sb
332,
and
I
also
have
some
special
guests
with
me
to
present
this
bill.
I
am
joined
by
the
executive
director
of
the
national
association
of
structured
settlement
purchasers,
j,
brian
dear,
as
well
as
an
associate
attorney
for
the
national
association
of
structured
settlement
purchasers.
Jack
kelly.
The
purpose
of
sb
332
is
to
establish
some
regulations
and
require
registration
of
organizations
or
companies
that
purchase
structured
settlement
agreements.
A
For
those
of
you
who
don't
know
what
a
structured
settlement
agreement
is,
I
certainly
didn't
until
about
six
months
ago.
I
will
try
to
explain
it
the
best
that
I
can.
It
is
a
legal
term
of
art
that
occurs
or
that
exists
in
civil
law
generally
when
and
when
a
plaintiff
wins
their
lawsuit
and
they
are
awarded
certain
kinds
of
monetary
damages
or
certain
kinds
of
monetary
awards.
A
structured
settlement
calls
for
the
dispersal
of
those
awards
over
a
period
of
time.
A
So
perhaps,
if
you're
awarded
50
000,
you
get
ten
thousand
dollars
per
year
for
five
years.
A
company
that
buys
a
structured
settlement
has
the
opportunity
to
provide
the
person
who
would
normally
be
receiving
those
ten
thousand
dollars
per
year,
a
lump
sum
up
front,
which
is
probably
not
equal
to
the
total
sum
that
they
are
to
receive,
but
the
advantages
that
they
get
to
receive.
That
sum
earlier
than
the
end
of
that
5
or
10
or
25
year
period.
A
A
But
generally,
I
wanted
to
explain
that
the
purpose
of
the
policy
is
to
ensure
that
here
in
nevada,
we
only
encourage
or
allow
good
actors
to
participate
in
this
process
by
having
them
register
with
the
secretary
of
state
by
creating
some
guidelines
for
what
they
are
and
are
not
allowed
to
do,
and
that
way
we
can
avoid
having
bad
actors
in
the
state
who
who
exploit
people
in
need
of
quicker
cash
in
the
structured
settlement
purchase
agreements.
A
I
also
want
to
let
the
committee
know
that
I
did
speak
with
representatives
from
the
secretary
of
state's
office
this
morning
and
I'm
very
very
appreciative
to
them
for
taking
the
time
to
speak
with
me.
As
you
can
see,
the
bill
is
lengthy
and
it
is
detailed
and
we
have
not
had
the
time
to
dive
into
it
to
the
fullest
depths.
But
I
remain
committed
to
working
with
the
secretary
of
state's
office
to
work
out
any
of
their
concerns
or
questions,
and
there
will.
There
is
an
event.
A
There's
an
amendment
online
on
nellis,
which
is
relatively
small,
make
some
technical
changes
just
based
on
the
initial
language,
but
there
will
be
another
amendment
forthcoming.
I
anticipate
as
we
continue
to
work
with
the
secretary
of
state's
office
and
any
other
stakeholders
who
we
may
not
have
had
a
chance
to
convene
with,
given
the
the
abbreviated
schedule
that
we're
on
right
now,
but
we
will
certainly
continue
to
work
with
them
and
I'm
hopeful
that
we'll
be
able
to
come
up
with
a
bill
that
satisfies
the
needs
of
all
the
parties
involved.
A
F
P
Thank
you
senator
arne
shaw
and
members
of
the
committee.
I
would
also
like
to
thank
the
sponsor
the
chairman
scheible
for
her
introduction
of
this
very
well
needed
legislation.
P
Structured
settlements
were
created
under
federal
tax
law
in
the
1970s
as
a
result
of
the
challenges
that
arose
from
issues
like
thalidomide,
babies,
the
anticipation
of
the
house,
ways
and
means
committee
at
the
time
that
we
worked
on
this
was
that
we
created
a
system
whereby
we
would
allow
for
a
period
of
money
to
be
paid
over
a
long,
protracted
period
of
time
to
be
able
to
care
for
the
long-term
care
well-being
of
somebody
who
needed
long-term
care.
P
As
time
went
on
in
the
1980s
and
1990s.
This
tax
structure
was
then
used
by
by
individuals
settling
claims
to
settle
it
for
all
sorts
of
civil
litigation
and
all
sorts
of
torts.
It
was
no
longer
used
for
the
long-term
care
purpose
that
had
originally
been
written
for
and,
as
a
result,
a
cottage
industry
merged
where
people
would
have
the
opportunity
to
sell
portions
of
the
structured
settlement.
P
So
congress
examined
this
issue
in
2002
after
the
victims,
bill
of
911
was
written
and
included
in
the
victims
bill
at
9.
11
was
a
provision
that
said
that
congress
says
you
can
transfer
structured
settlements
such
as
this,
but
there
was
one
significant
requirement
that
congress
would
require,
and
that
is
that
the
transfer
must
be
approved
by
a
court
of
general
jurisdiction,
finding
that
the
transfer
was
in
the
individual's
best
interest
and
also
took
into
consideration
the
duties
of
their
dependents.
P
P
This
ensures
that
a
court
of
general
jurisdiction
review
the
case
to
make
sure
it's
in
the
person's
best
interest
in
2003
nevada
was
very
quick
in
getting
a
law
adopted
to
dress
with
this
issue,
but
in
2004
the
national
conference
of
insurance
legislators
adopted
a
model
law
that
model
law
has
been
amended
and
upgrade
updated
in
2004
2009,
2000
2012
and
sometime
in
the
near
future,
will
once
again
be
updated.
P
Those
adoptions
were
made
by
the
state
of
louisiana
by
the
then
chair
and
president
of
encoil
two
years
ago,
and
today,
as
we
speak,
the
georgia
general
assembly
has
adopted
the
model,
the
new
model,
with
the
updated
changes
you
were
considering
today
in
its
lower
house
in
the
house.
It
has
cleared
unanimously
through
the
senate
committee
and
presently
was
posted
on
the
senate
floor
agenda
for
enactment
shortly
this
week.
P
Let
me
first
walk
you
through
what
this
does.
As
I
stated,
it
upset
dates.
The
law
to
reflect
the
current
reflections
in
the
end
call
model
act.
It
provides
for
much
more
robust
consumer
disclosures,
including
showing
the
effective
annual
rate
that
the
person
receiving
the
amount
would
receive.
It
precludes
forum
shopping.
It
requires
that
the
individual's
action
be
brought
in
their
county
of
residence.
P
Presently,
because
this
is
a
judicial
procedure
and
a
civil
procedure,
it
does,
the
state
does
not
know
who's
doing
business
in
their
state.
The
court
knows
who's
doing
business
before
them,
but
the
state
does
not
know.
That
is
the
most
important
thing
that
is
here
today.
It
requires
the
posting
of
a
bond
of
50
000,
so
that
if
there
is
untowards
behavior,
the
state
has
someone
to
turn
to
to
to
achieve
it,
and
by
doing
this
it
also
impedes
what
is
known
as
poaching
or
scraping
by
getting
the
identity
of
these
companies.
P
Let
me
walk
you
through
briefly.
What
poaching
or
scraping
is
an
individual
files
to
have
their
structured
settlement
transferred,
they
could
be
doing
it
in
clark,
county
and
bad
apples
will
go
over
the
court
docket
and
find
the
name
of
the
individual
who
has
submitted
their
transfer
and
they
will
call
them
up
and
they
will
say
I
am
the
abc
company,
as
you
know,
we're
buying
your
structured
settlement,
you're
supposed
to
be
in
court
on
tuesday.
P
When
the
person
goes
to
court,
the
person
doesn't
even
know
who
they
were
doing
business
with
and
when
it
all
happens,
nobody
knows
who
did
it
or
can
find
them?
That's
what
the
registration's
all
about
and
it
gives
that
individual
the
ability
to
be
able
to
go
after
that
person
if
they
abuse
it.
That's
the
most
important
provisions
that
are
here
today,
and
I
ask
you
to
make
sure
that
when
you
consider
this
one
question
that
some
have
raised,
it
was
an
interesting
question
raised
in
both
louisiana
and
in
georgia.
P
There
are
likely
only
five
or
six
companies,
honest
companies,
true
companies
that
are
well
established
that
will
register
with
the
state.
The
bad
apples
won't
register
the
bad
apples
don't
want.
You
know
who
they
are.
The
bad
apples,
don't
want
you
knowing
who
owns
the
company
and
who
it's
all
about.
P
F
Thank
you
very
much.
I
see
senator
pickard.
G
Thank
you
vice
chair,
I
I
I
love
this
bill.
We've
been
dealing
with
structured
settlements
in
tour
cases
for
years
and
they've
always
been
difficult
to
keep.
You
know,
keep
on
track.
G
The
only
question
I
have
is
we're
requiring
registration
through
the
secretary
of
state,
and
it
seems
that
we're
leaving
it
to
the
court
to
decide
whether
or
not
the
registrant
has
followed
the
the
law
which,
in
at
least
one
of
my
cases,
required
a
separate
lawsuit.
G
P
So
that's
an
excellent
question.
Senator
and
one
of
the
things
that
I'd
like
to
note
is
that
the
technical
amendments
that
were
raised
by
the
ch
by
chair
schaible,
one
of
the
technical
amendments
says
that
you
have
to
submit
in
your
in
your
pleadings
a
certification
or
your
attestation
that
you
are
in
fact
registered
with
the
state.
So
the
court
does
not
have
to
bear
the
burden.
P
In
addition,
there
is
a
civil
remedy
here
for
a
private
right
of
action
by
the
individual
that
they
could
pursue
after
that
person,
and
if
they
do
a
transfer-
and
it
is
not
us-
they
are
not
registered
the
transfer
and
the
contract
is
void.
Avenacio
and
the
individual
will
get
all
their
money
directly
transferred.
So
the
money
that
the
the
bad
apple
might
have
shown
up
front
like
the
fifty
thousand
dollars
or
something
they
might
pay
that
fifty.
P
G
And
I
appreciate
that,
I'm
just
thinking
when
we're
talking
about
a
private
right
of
action,
you're
right
and
that's
exactly
what
and
it
already
exists,
arguably
because
they
can
go
after
them
on
a
civil
basis,
but
that
private
right
of
action
under
the
statute
still
requires
the
the
recipient
of
that
structured
settlement
to
have
to
sue.
It
would
mean
a
new
lawsuit.
G
And
so
I
I
was
thinking,
maybe
if
there
was
an
administrative
remedy
that
was
available.
That
might
speed
things
up.
But
I
understand.
P
That
that
would
be
a
burdensome
remedy.
The
civil
action
would
actually
end
up
likely
being
bought
by
the
company
that
the
case
was
stolen
from
fraud,
and
they
would
do
it
on
behalf
of
the
individual
to
gain
the
benefit
for
that
individual.
J
J
If
I
get
asked
yeah
kelly,
a
question
on
the
record,
he
indicated
that
if
they
failed
to
get
the
approval
of
local
jurisdictions
that
it
would
be
result
in
potentially
a
40
percent
capture,
potentially
capital
gains
lost
through
the
irs.
Is
that
forty
percent
of
the
total
settlement
or
forty
percent
of
the
amount
that
the
individual
was
getting
because
you
know
some
of
these
ones.
P
The
individual
doesn't
pay
the
excise
tax,
the
company
who
bought
it,
who
bought
it
without
the
court
order,
would
be
subject
to
a
forty
percent
excise
tax
for
the
amount
that
they
purchased.
So
if
they
purchased
fifty
thousand
dollars
worth
of
a
settlement,
they
would
then
be
subject
to
a
forty
percent
excise
tax
on
that
fifty
thousand
dollars.
So
they
would
then
be
subject
to
paying
twenty
thousand
dollars
to
the
federal
government,
and
that
would,
in
effect,
make
the
transaction
upside
down.
They'd
lose
money
on
the
transaction.
F
F
Okay,
I'm
not
seeing
any
additional
questions
broadcasting
if
we
can
go
to
support
anyone.
Who'd
like
to
speak
in
support
of
the
bill.
We
are
limiting
callers
to
two
minutes
per
speaker.
K
K
F
K
K
F
K
K
K
M
M
I
appreciate
I
would
like
to
thank
senator
scheibel
for
taking
our
call
this
morning
when
we
received
a
fiscal
note
on
this.
This
was
the
first
fiscal
note
request.
This
was
the
first
time
we
had
seen
this
legislation
or
had
anybody
had
reached
out
to
us
in
regards
to
this
legislation.
M
We
believe
we
understand
what
the
legislation
is
trying
to
do.
However,
we're
uncertain
if
the
secretary
of
state's
office
is
indeed
the
correct
office
for
this
to
be
whether
there
is
some
another
division
within
the
department
of
business
and
industry
or
financial
institutions
that
would
be
better
suited.
We
have
talked
with
with
senator
schaible.
I
want
to
thank
her
for
taking
our
call
this
morning,
but
we
are
uncertain
as
to
whether
it
belongs
in
the
office
of
the
secretary
of
state.
M
M
Also,
the
statute
itself
does
not
give
much
guidance
in
regards
to
the
information
that
would
be
required
in
such
a
filing
or
any
other
direction
that
way
other
basically
other
than
on
a
form
prescribed
by
the
secretary
of
state.
M
So
with
that,
you
know
we,
we
have
been
in
contact
again
with
the
sponsor
and
we
will
would
be
more
than
happy
to
continue
the
discussions
to
determine
whether
this
is
a
filing
that
does
belong
in
the
office
of
the
secretary
of
state
or
if
it
belongs
somewhere
else,
and
with
that
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
F
I
but
again
I'm
not
seeing
any
questions
from
members
and
again
I'd
encourage
you
to
work
with
the
sponsor
and
see
if
any,
if
there's
anything
needs
to
be
ironed
out
or
hashed
out
broadcasting.
Anyone
else
who
is
neutral
to
the
measure
who
wants
to
speak.
K
P
At
the
chair
of
yield,
I
appreciate
it
in
response
to
the
concerns
of
the
secretary
of
state
that
actually
was
raised
in
louisiana
and
in
georgia.
P
This
is
a
very
small
group
of
of
participants
in
this
marketplace.
P
I
would
venture
that
at
best
you
would
have
five
companies
register
the
bad
apples
don't
register
and
the
the
highly
the
companies
that
are
are
well
known
to
be
well
established
in
this
marketplace
are
very
happy
to
register.
It
is
a
very
easy
process.
Louisiana
had
the
exact
same
reaction
as
the
secretary
of
state's
office.
P
Didn't
it's
and
it's
quite
warranted
when
you
think
about
it,
if
you,
if
you
aren't
familiar
with
it,
but
louisiana,
found
it
to
be
once
very
simple
process,
and
I
feel
confident
that
if
the
two
the
secretary
of
state
louisiana,
was
able
to
share
with
the
secretary
of
state
of
nevada
how
simple
it
was
for
them,
they
will
find
it
to
be
very
easy
to
achieve.
F
Thank
you,
mr
kelly.
Thank
you,
chair,
scheible,
and
appreciate
your
willingness
to
work
with
chief
deputies
at
anderson,
and
I
will
now
close
the
hearing
on
senate
bill
332
and
I'll
virtual
gavel
back
to
our
chair.
Thank
you,
chair
tribal.
A
Thank
you
so
much
chair
pro
tem
orenshaw.
I
really
appreciate
you
bringing
us
through
this
meeting
and
in
case
the
record
does
not
reflect
that
vice
chair
canazaro
is
present.
She
is
here,
but
senator
orrinshaw
is
doing
such
a
fantastic
job
that
we
decided
to
leave
the
gavel
in
his
capable
hands.
With
that
we
will
move
to
the
last
item
on
our
agenda,
which
is
public
comment
broadcast.
Is
there
anybody
wishing
to
give
a
two-minute
public
comment.
K
K
K
A
All
right,
thank
you
so
much
for
your
help.
That
will
conclude
our
meeting.
We
do
have
another
meeting
tomorrow
at
the
same
time
1pm
until
then,
we
are
adjourned.