Open Source Ecology OSE Chapters, 24 Jul 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Working on OSE Chapter - South Africa

Description

Working with Lesego on bill of materials for the OSE 3D Printers to determine feasibility of producing 3D printers locally in South Africa. Sourcing of parts is a prerequisite for an enterprise that revolves around 3D pritning, education, and production - the usual OSE package.

There are several considerations for BOMs in different countries:
1. First, price must make it feasible to replicate what is doable in the USA to within 50% of cost off the shelf.
2. If the price is not within 50% overrun, then this may be a no-go.
3. To get price to comparable to the USA cost, there must be design changes, part substitutions, or further ability to produce additional parts in house. This is doable once the full open source microfactory is avvailable, but in the meantime, we must work with existing supply chains.
4. For parts - sticker price is only one half the story. What is the shipping cost, for example for Ebay or Amazon or Aliexpress?
5. To substitute parts - what machinery is required to build parts in-house?
6. OSE Chapters can fill a role of developing the part substitution, so that more parts are produced in house. This is one part that will be pursued through the immersion training program: if some parts are too expensive, we develop the tools to produce those parts. This is a way to make this feasible throughout the world: by leapfrogging on the supply chains.

Chapters mark the evolution to full time engagement with OSE work. Read more information on OSE Chapters at https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Chapters_Proposal/

See Lesego's work at https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Lesego_Log

-----------------
What you see here at Open Source Ecology is an ambitious open source project for the common good. Join our development team:

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Developers

We run One Day Extreme Build workshops in many locations. Please put yourself on our map if you'd like us to host a workshop near you:

https://microfactory.opensourceecology.org/request-a-workshop/

Take a minute to subscribe to our email newsletter (updates, workshops, etc): http://bit.ly/1LtcM44

A

Start recording.

A

Okay, yeah good job on. uh Can you still hear me.

B

Yeah, no perfectly, I can hear you yes.

A

Is everything okay.

B

A

All right, I think it's good, uh so I'm looking at the let me see, let me maybe share my screen with you. Okay,.

A

But yeah so I've been looking good job, but now so you got pretty much all the all the parts which is pretty good now.

A

So the first first comment is um as.

B

A

A that's a high price, so we want to discuss it's.

B

A very high price.

A

Yes, I just just noticing, through some of this, like, for example, in item number, this one here, like usage cost, you put, we just need one of those. So it's like three you, you have 398.

C

Way above you ones,.

A

So little details like that. um I didn't go through the whole thing in detail. uh There's.

C

A

Like, um for example, the rods here, you've got 10 mm, we need eight, okay, all right um on the stepper motors. Yes, yes, uh they might be uh they're a little smaller than what we have. We have to look at that in detail, converted to what we think and is.

B

Which is 55 inch each.

C

A

We use 72 ounce inch.

C

A

You know like actually testing that, for what the limits of good function are, we we've always did the 72 ounce inch, but we can maybe do what you have there. We have to look at it.

D

A

So beyond that, I haven't gone down down the road, so.

B

Into the yeezys, so the big idea.

A

Is uh I think we can probably get this get this down to uh no true a reasonable number, uh so some questions about that. So, let's talk about first of all, uh because this is kind of like you know for perspective. This is kind of like we got to make.

C

A

The first thing like what are your supply chains? They're like right.

B

A

True um before we build all the open source micro factories around the world, we're going to need to get supplies right and that's definitely where we're going towards, but right now we're depending on other sources. um Regarding the sources from china. Do you have access to aliexpress.

B

Yes, we can ship from aliexpress and uh we can do ali. Yes, it does ship to south africa. It does.

A

Ship, um how come you haven't um included any aliexpress possibilities? You just didn't look that far yet.

B

No because you already have them so what you have, in fact, it also has the option where, if you want to order ship them to south africa, I can just use your your current uh as you've got them the. So it will be just a matter of shipping yeast as per what you have on there on the list. So there was really no need to to do that. So it just gives you the option on one of the drop down options you just have to change from maybe deliver it to south africa of the us.

B

A

C

E

Let's take a look at an example.

A

Just to convince ourselves here.

E

A

For example, if you take a look at um okay, I know the controller part.

C

Let me see if I.

A

Can get that pull that up? Well, let me share my screen, so you can see what I'm doing here.

A

Yes, um but if we take a look at controller I know that's, you know, that's a big deal, so I have okay, that's yours.

C

B

C

Do you ebay as well? Yes, you have ebay as well. We.

B

Can also do ebay. Yes, I've bought a few things from the uk through ebay previously.

B

uh Well, I I had a connection in the uk they used to do I used to deliver an address in london. Then they will. They will come through that person. So obviously it wasn't a big package at that time, uh so it was affordable in that way at that time. But for now I can just check what it will come down to versus maybe something locally here.

A

C

A

So, let's see so if you've got aha, so something like that, it's a little different because the screen has to be a little. It's not this.

B

Is I think, I think the second on the second row is the kind of the right lcd the screen was the right one. Just the second link that I have. I actually looked at that I saw the uh if you go to the other one. I think they the one next to that, is that looked a bit more like a yes that one that looked like more. It conformed with what.

A

You have the easiest and that's.

B

Even cheaper yeah, so I just didn't use so I also need to uh because I also still needed to do a bit of my uh sort of refining on the on the.

A

No, that's good! That's good.

E

uh So we're seeing.

A

Some little changes and.

C

Then, for example,.

A

Let's, let's see what happens not this one, but if we do to this one, if we say so, let's see, can I.

A

No, it doesn't allow me as shipping. How can I do like.

B

Hey, can I just try it on my side? Maybe you can see yeah going.

E

B

South africa, with that option, yes, I think I can. Let me also try and share the screen, I'm just trying to look for the option. Okay,.

D

Open, oh no, I'm just.

C

A

What have you been up to this week? Are you doing? uh Are you doing work with your.

B

That's correct. Yes, I was seeing a few clients this week. uh In fact, there was just some work that I I was uh working on now I was doing more presentations and all that for the clients.

E

B

Ease I'm just trying to share my screen because I've got the.

B

uh I don't know if you're able to see my my screen on your end question.

A

Yeah, let me see here.

D

A

C

Need to snapchat.

A

Okay, let's see, can you share yours.

B

Yes, I'm trying to share it from my end.

D

B

It keeps on taking me to so I'm looking for my desktop more than.

D

B

Me try sorry for that. I'm just trying to because when I scream.

D

B

Yes, I don't know if you can see it, I should have the amazon I just opened randomly just the, for example, there are lap table yes. So if you look on the top right, uh sorry top left corner yeah.

E

B

Is the option we deliver to to sa so but the price I see it's still in dollars, uh because I I know ali was was in fact. Let me just try and open ali was showing in rents already.

A

B

I think the last time it was showing in in rents.

B

Okay, no, I don't see it in rents, uh but it did give me an option. I just have to look down way. uh I'm not seeing your.

A

Screen I'm seeing the amazon still.

B

Is it still the amazon okay? Maybe maybe I'm.

D

Sharing the wrong screen.

B

This is the ali.

C

B

But then it's still showing the the dollar, but I know it does have the ship to say.

A

So take a look at the one like the controller ramps, controller.

B

Let me oh okay. Okay, let me go to the rams controller. Just.

D

Okay, I'll just have to reshade the.

E

B

Okay, this one says I don't know something went wrong there with the website just trying the other one.

D

D

A

B

Here we go okay, but it doesn't show any other price, but then on top there then there'll be an option to ship to sa. Show me one that doesn't show the price.

B

I just want to try and convert it to the south african rent and there we go. Then it should then automatically upgrade to okay. This one doesn't have a price. Can I just go to yeah yeah.

E

B

Okay, all right; okay, all right, no problem.

B

Okay, I'm just gonna share the other.

D

D

A

Since we talked last, I started looking into solar container ships because I think we might have to.

C

B

Oh, is it for the with with so I did also as a bit of an update my partner.

B

He was trying to arrange the the just the price and everything for the for the code fm code to deliver the chrome, so I'm just gonna kindly link you up with hey yeah, yeah yeah, then it's with regards to the chromite, because I think they they were asking a few questions that I thought. Maybe it's better. If you deal with them, daddy, yeah that'll be great, hey minis by the end of the call I'll just link you up with her and then she'll just take you to there because the guys are already does shipping.

B

So it looks like it's not a problem to go to the states, so they just wanted more details in terms of if we go kansas city and all those kind of grades and all the other things.

E

B

They want more information, okay, all right. Okay, just still converting. I think that will be, for example the uh okay. I think I don't know because it does show the price, but then on this one, particularly it doesn't give it says, cannot deliver to sa. I don't know what is the reason for that?

B

The supplier or shipping company also, I think, maybe it might be itemized what can be delivered the site. I.

D

B

Know if you can able to see that message there, because it came back with that note to say that the supplier or the shipping company doesn't deliver to this well. Take.

A

A look, for example, the controller. So let's, let's take a look at the controller.

B

At the controller.

D

B

Okay, I've got I've, got it on ebay. I'm just gonna share the.

D

D

I think that's the.

B

One yep should be up the screen.

A

B

Yes, so that's more like, I think. Obviously it's an estimate now and then yes.

A

Does it tell you, can you see what the shipping would be.

B

uh The cost, I think, for that I'll, have to add more sort of advances in like buy now. That's how I normally will do it just to see at the end of it how, because this is more of a female code. I think, if I do it that way,.

A

Can you make it show the price or you'd have to see.

B

Yes, I I think you have to register, but let me just try and advance and see if what I'm trying to do as if I'm buying something from them and then see what what yes.

B

So it wants me to create an account first. So that's what it's saying, but I'm just trying to see if yeah, I think I'll need to create some sort of an account.

A

So is: um do people regularly buy things from aliexpress on in south africa.

B

Yes, some of the things, but I I myself, I know I'm more familiar with ebay, but I know aliexpress needs a lot.

D

I think even amazon.

B

Even amazon, the us is amazon, so.

A

When you looked at.

B

Yes, myself, all right.

A

The ali x or sorry the ebay before.

C

A

Prices are reasonable kind of similar to what you get on aliexpress, because aliexpress.

B

I guess because they sell in the big volumes, it would make sense, because.

A

But the price you think like, for example, that's the you know like the shipping on this would be affordable. I mean we need to find out some of those details.

B

Some of those things yeah, my thinking is that obviously, with this kind of things, uh probably when you buy in volumes, uh it becomes cheaper because you pay for probably a single a shipping shipment, whereas instead of buying.

A

Yeah, it depends, I mean.

B

E

Things changed.

A

For the us, but before even.

E

The small volumes.

A

From china you had very affordable shipping still.

D

C

A

It depends um maybe okay, let's go through. I just want to go through the list. Then.

C

I'll just go through this just.

A

A little bit here, so maybe okay, okay, let me share my screen, then please! um So if you take a look at my screen. Okay,.

B

So I highlighted just as a node, I highlighted also the big ticket items just to also see if I can get them elsewhere. So I was hoping to get a chance. Those ones that I've highlighted were sort of the bigger priced items uh on the on the on the spreadsheet.

A

B

Okay, no problem, please.

A

A

See 18 bucks for that.

A

Yeah some things are quite a bit.

B

What I can quickly do, maybe just divide all the rows by 17, because I think the exchange rate is about 17. yeah.

C

A

Yeah, okay, so we definitely want to go through this.

C

A

Maybe what I can ask you to do, I can look at this in a little more detail to see if.

C

A

Any parts like, for example,.

C

A

You have to be careful about these bearings like if we're doing, for example, this one I.

B

Saw the note, yes, it says plastic for the for certain axis and then uh you are saying. Oh, this is the flame experience. Okay, that's not gonna have.

A

um That's gonna be six, for example, so just make sure.

C

Okay, yes, I don't know, I think, maybe it's similar, but.

A

It's critical because uh yeah so just little details like that, I was looking at.

C

A

B

uh I just provisionally put there because I think if you go back to the spreadsheet, it was more like a a. I just want to see if it did show.

A

Angle: um well, yeah, I'm looking at the one you have the 161.

A

For six meters.

A

Is that a local supplier that you get.

B

This is the local suppliers, because some of these things you buy directly from the hardware or more like a steel supplier, it's cheaper even.

A

So you, you would actually go to the you know where this place is or that's.

B

This place yes physically. Yes, I go to their physical address. Okay, okay, so they'll be not apart from where I stayed.

A

Well, that's good! That's pretty decent! That's uh just a little more but and then you know some of the details like, for example, if you have 40 millimeters yeah, we actually have to change the 3d printed pieces from one and a half inch to 40 millimeter, which is a little different, but.

E

A

We actually have a we have a designer within freecad which we can generate those new corners actually, so we can work on that. Okay, okay, yeah, okay, well,.

B

Yes, so there's still a bit of homework because obviously it needs to be really refined yeah, because I also been in optimization for the price. So this was more like a rough a. I think, the sort of the rough order magnitude in terms of the cost yeah so obviously I'll, do a bit more refined.

B

Over the weekend I was just a bit held up. My week was very tight, so exist from tomorrow, where I can start working more on the refinement of the of the prices.

C

Okay, so that's why.

B

I'm really optimistic that we will I'll be able to at least knock down a few things uh because they want to approach or to transition your source from some of the diy shops. I realize there's quite a few guys that do a little bit of diy, especially on the cnc side, so they've incorporated 3d printing into their into their offense, so their websites are not necessarily all up to date in terms of the things that they they have.

B

So my intention was to also go into the sports uh for some of those guys to have physical addresses and see if they do have practice that I can also sort of use uh just to see. If I can knock down the the pricing on the list.

A

Yeah yeah like, for example, let's take a look at one like, for example belt for me, is.

B

I mean yes, it's I don't know what the.

A

Cost cost is much different, so actually take a look at. Can you search on this for the belt timing belt on aliexpress see if it gives you a real price.

B

A

You have is like.

B

I mean I remember.

A

It's like eight times more from this place,.

B

No, it shouldn't be easy.

A

Yeah yeah, it's out of control, expensive, so yeah take a look at ali.

A

I want to see, show me like one that we can actually see the price, so we have hope that yeah they actually do have very affordable shipping.

C

Otherwise, we would have to.

A

Start our solar shipping container line first.

B

Oh okay, all right yeah! That might be in fact better because yeah, it's cheaper to source from the state and then deliver elsewhere. I.

C

Think that will be even better.

A

But I mean that's not yet we're we're not ready for that.

C

Yeah, that's maybe in.

A

Five or ten years.

B

Maybe two years more.

A

Like five to 10., that's that's big. That's big things!.

A

B

Yeah, because I see it's with adi, if it's just on the the legends projected what they are estimating uh it's a coastal shipping site.

D

So they're talking about 94.

B

A

Yeah show me show me your screen.

C

I think it's this one yeah, so this is how much it took for 10 meters. Yes,.

B

So it does get shipped to sa, but is that expensive to ship? This is how much the cost for shipping would be.

A

A

uh What are the other options under shipping? Go down a little bit and go right under the shipping.

A

So one one thing we need to verify is that no, that's that knocks it out of the ballpark, so.

C

We would be really.

A

Stressed for that those kinds of prices so yeah, so we definitely have to make a case that after shipping we are still affordable because yeah the price is right here, but no with the shipping we're talking about large. Yes, yes,.

B

Because I don't know if this takes into account.

C

A

Right, no, those.

E

Yeah those issues.

A

We need to resolve um yes, but.

C

I just tried more for the refinement. I I.

D

Believe, maybe I'll try to really.

B

Work on it, I just believe, especially those big ticket.

D

B

So these three items yeah all together.

D

And these are like tools.

B

They're not really so I.

C

A

If you look at my screen the other option they do have uh in america, usps has a flat rate international box. Let's see if that.

C

A

Usps., okay, usps shipping.

C

D

A

Let's see if they have a library box.

E

So shipping rates.

A

B

So yeah that's.

C

A

E

A

um Yeah yeah, we have to.

B

Yeah, I think the only way is just to refine but find better suppliers and think we yeah.

A

Or like once, we get the final list we can. You know this actually would be an interesting case for certain redesign for, for example, if we have like those well. First of all, we want to be printing, the linear bearings soon, so.

A

That requires a high temperature printer that.

D

A

Like if we talk about the greater program uh in the.

C

A

Term it's about developing the much larger and the high temperature printers. So that's near term within like six months or so. Yes, so if you are in the osc chapters, replication program like after.

C

B

A

We would have access to it because the concern here is um okay, so uh share yeah stop sharing. So I can see you again. Let's.

C

Talk a little bit about.

A

Kind of like a greater.

C

East greater plan, okay, all right, peace.

A

Yeah, can you stop sharing your screen at the bottom there, so I can see you again.

B

Oh sorry knees, I don't. uh Let me see.

A

Yeah there you.

B

Go there, you go.

A

C

A

So the program is, I mean the concern. That's on my side, it's like when, when we get you going after one year or or two years old,.

C

School, you want to make.

A

Sure that you're up and running- and you have a way to make a living doing this right. So it's a vehicle, viable business.

C

A

So I think some of the things on the cost of producing.

C

A

Printer, we can address.

C

A

Such as some substitution, like I, I I've struggled with those m six by 12 by four flanged bearings, like those are hard to get a little.

B

Okay, to be honest, yeah, that's what.

A

I appreciate that part because I've struggled with that myself, but for there we can, for example, use a regular bearing and just.

C

A

Flange for the bearing, so we can.

C

We can't do that, it will.

A

Be a little, you know we have to rework the production engineering just a little bit.

C

But it's a definite.

A

Feasible definitely doable so maybe like as we go. International like part of the strategy is to simplify the tool chain, the the production parts, even more, which is good, because that makes it more accessible to everyone. So it makes us work a little harder.

C

A

That's part of it why we want to do the chapters, because then we are forced.

C

A

Make these improvements, I call those improvements.

C

Those tiny bearings.

B

Man, that's such a specialized.

A

B

I saw that it looks like they're only made in china or something.

A

Yeah, like um I can only get them like it seems like.

E

A

Like one shop in hong kong, that makes them or something I don't know.

B

A

But we can definitely do better, like, for example, we have 3d printed small bearings like we have done that with balls. Okay, you use the metal balls.

E

A

Print the rest, so that kind of stuff actually works really well, uh we've done it um so yeah there's there's ways to do and then, of course you have to optimize that so you can completely reproducible.

C

Results every time.

A

um All of that yeah, um so, okay, so we definitely need a little bit more. We have some leeway in terms of some of the parts that we can start producing ourselves like more 3d printed parts. Definitely.

E

A

As far as the controller.

C

A

And power supply, I think we.

E

A

uh If we talk about a one-year time scale.

C

A

Do also believe that that's one of those things where we can actually make the make the controllers ourselves from.

C

Common components.

A

So basically, the circuit board, like the the arduino, uh the mega, the power supply, so those are a little. You know that gets us into.

B

A

But it's doable and it's definitely worthwhile if we want this.

D

A

Yeah to be something that like, if you don't have those supply chains like in south africa, you can just go.

C

And go ahead and.

A

Make them anyway, because you can go at the deeper level of the supply chain. You can get, for example, circuit boards and components instead of the finished boards. That now we're kind of like.

E

A

Getting them from manufacturers manufacturing.

A

Yeah, china or manufacturers that you know may.

C

A

Them forever, you know.

C

E

C

A

The lifetime design.

C

A

Where it doesn't matter, if the suppliers stop producing it, we can do it ourselves, and that way we have a complete advantage in terms of the kind of warranties and service we can provide, which really reduces the price to very, very low, which is a very unique value proposition compared to anyone like. Even if you look.

C

A

I was looking at suppliers of tools like cordless power tools. Nobody.

B

Warranties, their.

C

A

For like more than a few years, because they can't it's like you're depending on electric motors, that break maybe gears that break and nobody makes that themselves they're depending on other people. So it's a big cost if you've got to supply it and get other people to do it. But if you're doing that in-house with say, 3d printed, electric motors 3d printed gears made from acetal.

C

A

Is a good material for gears? We can do a lot of that kind of stuff, but it requires a different kind of thinking which is really.

C

A

Circular economy, empowering local communities distributed manufacturing a complete.

C

A

Pretty much correcting the industrial system from its current state.

B

No, I I do follow, because it then becomes more like a loop manufacturing where you continuously it's more sustainable.

A

Yeah absolutely and then, when the things break, you don't throw them out. You recycle all the components, because you know how to do it. There's no waste. That's the beautiful part like the life, we're.

C

A

In the end of life, stewardship into what we're doing.

C

So yeah, that's no! It's.

B

A yeah, it's it's! It's more of a perfect model. Nice, yes, yeah.

A

Absolutely, and for you guys, it becomes makes even more sense because it's harder to get those parts and you can't just throw them out at such a waste we're here I mean people just throw those things out like you know such a throwaway society, but that's very much irresponsible. It's not the way to go.

B

So yeah, I think yes, yes, no, but it's really interesting machine, because now I mean it is so because when one around it then the whole so you're, basically in control of the whole value chain and you supply your own needs and then you still run your own production and it becomes more like a loop, a sort.

E

B

A model business model years, which makes sense it makes sense.

A

Yeah, absolutely absolutely um so, I think we could be okay in terms of what we can.

C

A

We can make some improvements.

A

If you are competing with so say, you're running the operation in south africa, just thinking about it like I'm looking at the economic feasibility of it, I think, even if you cannot get the prices as low.

C

A

You're also competing with others who also have limited access to supply chains as well.

B

Supply chains- that's that's the problem here. Yes, in fact, it's more of an advantage because yeah it's the same thing, because.

A

It's the same thing: in other words, it should be even if the price, maybe of the 3d printer in south africa may be higher. It may still work because nobody can deliver it for a lower cost. You know.

B

In fact, funny enough, can I just maybe google how much an average printer I don't know what size uh I just want to see. Maybe just value there what it would cost to buy one off shelf. Can I do that.

A

Yeah just to see, let's take a look at, for example, south africa 3d printer companies. I looked at that before. Okay.

B

Well, because I know what they do, they also sell the printer without really the the software and stuff. So you still have to do a lot of buying, so you're not just shopping for the printer itself, but you have to buy a lot more stuff.

A

Well also, if the printer breaks, you don't have it's main.

C

Way to replace.

C

A

See do these guys.

B

I just want to show my screen just to show you an average. uh I don't know I've got the options there. I just wanted to show you no not this. Oh.

A

Wow they actually have the lulzbot mini. Let's see, 32 000.

B

Oh, are you able to see my screen? Sorry, I don't know if.

A

Yeah yep, okay,.

B

I just wanted to show you.

A

Only the ounce inch conversion screen.

B

Oh sorry, I was just yeast, I think I opened yeah. This is the one I wanted to share. Yeah.

A

Well, anyway, you have the, for example, the lows about mini or lows.

D

A

A

That's 3, 000 united states dollars. Yeah I mean. Basically, their prices are a little higher than in the united states. Okay,.

B

That's all kind of crazy is that the equivalent of it. So it's about 53, 000 yeah. That's that's right!.

A

That's got a 12 inch bed, which is one of the versions that we can definitely build. So yeah.

E

A

I don't know, I think, because also you have less less competition. That's the yes, because everyone is in the same boat. They all have access to a little more.

B

Limited e-resources needs yeas, so obviously they're relying on somebody in europe or in the u.s or china to supply them with a patent. Even I think, more costly. It's like they have to pay for maintenance, for whatever regular updates and whatever on the the new versions and stuff like that. So it becomes a never ending cost because you, you always.

A

Look at that yeah and the cheapest, like the ones you're showing on your screen. Yes,.

B

I mean the cheapest, I don't know how, but it looks tiny. It looks very small yeah.

A

Those are yeah, those are kind of like the.

B

Easiest because I think we're looking at this meaning industrial scale we're not looking at this household kind of sizes, so I think the entry level there will be yeah just.

A

Yeah entry level, you still get the cheap stuff, but tell me I mean if you go so you can actually buy these things without so like, for example, xyz davinci, junior 5000.

B

Yeah like, for instance, this one.

A

Is that online.

B

Yeah, you can it's it's online. Let me just go to the website.

A

See how much shipping is.

B

And this now I just want to see if that's online definitely so I think I just want to see.

B

Just want to try and see what the shipping cost would be.

A

So so you're definitely going to have competition from the cheapo chinese printers, but that's not the space we're in we're in industrial production zone more.

C

A little different.

B

Yeah because I think also the chinese shipment everybody's questioning you know, because in china you get a different kind of qualities. So sometimes I'm just trying to see so you you, the.

D

E

Not really much.

B

Support there you know from china and the likes, so it actually becomes more of a bed in dealing with those guys as well. uh I I'm not winning with the shipment. uh I was trying to put it in a cart and see if proceed to check out there. We go nah.

B

Well, I need to create an account to see exactly how much it will come to.

E

B

A

Mean I think I think the case is just like anywhere else it's about if we're starting.

C

A

You know it's it's developing the product and marketing, and all of that I mean if we have the product it's going to be, I think, as a startup, it's going to be a struggle, but I think that's the kind of risk you would be taking.

A

um Do you think you could make it work.

B

Yeah, it's doable! That's why I believe I I first I can. I should be able to knock down those prices once I've done that, obviously, uh I'm sure it should be just like the normal uh stuff to overcome, but it should be doable yeah.

A

And then, as far as the features or the industrial qualities that we have, I mean we're selling we're in a different market. So it's it's once again, it's it's, showing your value, proposition and being able to sell it, and I think we have.

C

A

Whether we're in the.

C

A

Which I think it's easier people just have more there's more money in the.

E

States, but when south africa.

C

You have to work at it of course means yes,.

A

Yeah, so that does that part as an entrepreneur? How do you feel about that part.

B

uh Which parts are my channel? I might have missed.

A

The part that it that is a as an entrepreneur, there is no guarantees and you have to make it work.

B

Yeah, obviously you have to look for the markets because, uh like I say, I haven't really been much into this, uh but like an entrepreneur, you just have to sort of chat into. You know ways that you haven't really chat that into and see what what happens, obviously calculating the risk, and I think that's why the approach is right.

B

We first try and source and see what it comes to the feasibility of it and then uh at this point I think, if just a little bit of refining on the capex side, I think it should be able to to be viable or feasible, because the rest really becomes a part of marketing and sort of trying to introduce the technology into the sort of the the people or consumers uh out there. You know ease yeah and then I think my biggest question.

B

What, because I see 3d printing is quite big in the states, uh china as well, I would say, maybe the first world countries and then what I just wanted to find out. uh I saw it on the on the spreadsheet. There was a bit of the patents so uh sort of the the yeah some some development that you have printed as part of the ose. Was this the linear bearings?

B

I know you mentioned earlier on that you've done the the bearings and then uh and any uh any other things that you've also done on the on that list uh I just wanted. I just saw that note. I think somewhere there was a point on the spreadsheet.

B

Yeah the unique I think, kittens and all that so that does it translate to something that it's been done already, that you've done on your site.

A

uh um I'm sorry, I'm missing the question. What is the question.

B

Oh okay, all right, sorry, I was saying on the spreadsheet, uh the the bomb, the bill of material yeah.

B

This way it talks about the parts that have been developed, the unique patterns and all that is that something that is what yes, yes, is this the bearings and all those that we've printed before.

A

uh Those parts know they're, primarily the 3d printed.

C

A

And axis pieces and the extruder: that's not talking about the bearings that.

D

A

All right, I was doing uh actually um just to show you that okay, uh I want to share my screen for the bearings that I'm talking about.

A

Let me share the screen now, because this is very interesting and that is the shredder open source shredder. So look at the look at this so, for example, printing. These belts and bearings like this for one inch, that's one inch shaft right there, so this was actually a gear down a large gear down for a shredder.

A

So little bearings like what you see that, where you have the metal balls and you do the 3d printed bearing housing that works great, like for example, there you can make use hex, shaft and print your bearings for like a dollar or two, it would otherwise be like 10 or 20 dollars.

C

A

C

A

Is I'm actually in the process of doing this? So that's uh just to show you a little more detail here.

C

A

One inch hex shaft.

C

One years just.

A

Yeah, this is actually a thousand.

B

A

Like this is interesting, it's a small motor, that's geared down three thousand times, so it is still working on it. This is like huge gear.

B

Yes, I can see that right here, but at the end.

A

You cannot stop this from that tiny motor. You know.

A

That's a that's a great application of use, because there you have like very custom components that you can print to whatever geometry.

D

And that's actually.

A

In progress work on the shredder, so you get very huge gear down for a shredder application using a tiny motor which can still work. It will be, it will work, but it will be slow, but you can just let it.

C

A

And shred all your plastic so that you can use a tiny motor, it's essentially one human power, it's 100 watts, but that's how much uh that's how much like a full-time person would be able to do that. Little motors.

C

B

A

Okay, so I think um to go forward: let's, let's do a little bit more work on uh just try to.

B

No definitely, yes I'll do the refinement and then yeah that should be quicker, because now, at least I've got the the gist of it. I think it should be a quarter of the time now, because, obviously the first time was a bit more. uh You have to look more into details, but yeah. It should be easier now and quicker.

A

Yeah yeah, that sounds good.

B

And then one one, what I'll do is just to to make a a bit more quicker interactions once I finish I'll, just keep you up to date and then just send you a drop in mail for you to just have a look and then yeah. It should be at least once I get it to the level where I think uh I've pushed it really to where I think it's really the optimal point uh per se, then I'll, just let you know and say: no. I've pushed it to this point. Yeah.

A

And then let's talk about that, let's talk right after.

C

A

Where we go because I think I think it looks promising, so I think we can.

B

No, it definitely is yes, yes, yes, I I I'm one person I believe on making it work. I don't think it will make itself work yeah, so I just got to make it work. Yeah, yeah,.

A

That's the spirit. Otherwise, how do you feel like, after our conversation regarding the potential of the chapter in south africa,.

B

No still looking forward yeah great, I think the outlook looks really promising and yeah, so just got to make it work machine. I don't think yeah yeah, because you can't really be yeah. You know yeah, so I think it's an opportunity. So obviously uh it's just a matter of myself. Just maybe aligning my my schedule. That's my biggest challenge right now is a bit of on my on the time side because I still have like I explained the last time. I still have a bit of more work that I do yeah on there.

B

So at that time that I have yeast, but other than that, I don't think it should be workable. Yes, obviously, I'm also trying to get myself to be the first to know on my team side as well before I can maybe sort of involve my the guys that I maybe I'm intending to go forward with so that I can also just be in front and then just understand everything, but so far.

A

B

A

Yeah that would be important, because then you can teach teach your guys on your side, so you'll be there. Yes, they're.

C

B

Yes, yes, yes, but I'm happy. Yes, I don't know from your side. If how? How does it look because.

A

Yeah, you know, I think I think I look forward to exploring further so we can move forward.

C

A

um Yeah yeah, I think I think that's good, that's good. uh As far.

B

As right now so I mean.

A

As far as your your work with the consulting I mean, that's pretty much 40 hours a week or more or.

B

Yes, it's about 40 plus years, yes just depending on because it gets busy. It saves us a lot one moment you're busy, because you get called to side. You have to do this and that, but other than that and interesting enough, I was looking at the the one thing that I wanted to ask you that I also use a lot, uh but it was just something that I saw a on the osc chapter, the 3d scanners I saw somewhere. You spoke about 3d scanners. uh Those obviously are in future workings.

B

C

B

To ask you yes what? What is the plan yeah? Is it something that, uh because it aligns quite quite well with the the printers as well yeah, I I use a lot even on my my wife, when I design when I develop my 3d drawings and all those kind of things I do use that a lot you.

A

Use the streams.

B

Yes, for us builds uh applications, uh and sometimes we do a bit of modeling when we do improvements on the, because that line does have plans that we sort of optimize and all those kind of things. So we do use a lot of scanning applications and all that kind of thing to sort of uh ease.

A

What do you use for the scanner.

B

The scanner the company is meta metapod. I think it's matapod, I think it's a u.s company is, I think, it's matapot or something like that. They.

D

B

Part of a autodesk, which is these guys who do this- is a autocad autodesk. I think they they work together, but the company is called metaporties.

A

So for our side, there's open source.

C

A

Like there's others there's some software, yes, that if you can process the image processing of a bunch of pictures, then you can get that to sdl files and you have to learn the workflow in terms of processing it. So you clean it up and make it proper.

C

A

Far as the actual physical device, I think that would just be the phone, the cell phone or.

C

A

So you take a bunch of pictures and process them, so developing those tool chains uh would be.

D

A

What we would want to do.

C

As far as the workflow.

A

That you use with matterport, do you have to do like a lot of post-processing and cleanup work or.

B

I don't do it myself, I outsource, so we normally go to somebody who would own. So what happened is that I think somebody, the guys, would have an agreement between themselves and autocad and they they bring the stuff from the state. So we don't really get to. But what I know they do. They put it on cloud and then they do a bit of cleaning up and then they process the model, and then they issue it to us. Then we work on the on the model, so they.

C

A

The refinement.

B

On their site,.

A

Uh-Huh yeah like, for example, so so on our side, it's more about photogrammetry, which is.

D

Okay, all right, which.

A

Is processing images to do that? Let's see, um let me show you an example like take a look.

E

A

Like, for example like on prusa printers, they show you how to do that. um So this is known technology, but someone needs to really refine it, and you know.

D

A

A look at the link I put in the chat box. um Okay, so that's on a prusa printer's blog like they have some information on that. If you want to take a look at that, what they're doing.

D

A

Like, for example, scanning a statute like like that, but there's.

C

A

Like as far as the lighting and everything.

D

A

To make it proper, you have to have good shots and good kind of lighting.

C

So that you can do it properly.

A

They use call map, uh there are others, there's a bunch of open source software that does.

B

It is this kind of application. Yes,.

C

That's so interesting, wow.

A

But it would take somebody to sit down at it and and work out the dvds yeah yep.

B

Great stuff, yeah, obviously yeah, it's it's work, we'll we'll see. Yes, it comes obviously under your guidance ease just to see. What's what's what's happening, there yeah.

D

B

Interesting that I picked up and then I just wanted to ask you to say: oh so it is part of the uh is it on the 50th uh which.

D

Is because I know that.

B

They always the 50 that we outcome is initially and then obviously outgrowing, that refugees.

A

Yeah definitely that's one of the 50 machines and as far as the fifth, the the immersion program- that's not specifically in there because we're focusing on getting the.

C

B

A

Running and getting to the torch table and filament making and all of that, but I mean that's something you can explore on the side a little bit, but as far as the former former formal program, it's not not really in there at.

C

This point for the understanding: yes, yes,.

B

All right, I think yes, I'm I'm happy okay and then what I'll do is I'll. Just uh I just send you maybe an email with my partner's contact details.

E

B

And then hey name is my time and then she'll just hook you up with the guys that can do the supply the shipment for the chrome, because I think they're asking if you, if the ones of a kind of arrangement or you want it on a continuous basis and all this yeah. But I said to her that probably you want to hear first, the code and then you'll make yeah.

E

A

I don't think we're ready right now to to buy right now, but it's just for uh for seeing like the feasibility of that in the first place.

C

B

E

A

We would save this as something for the future yeah.

B

Yes, yes, no because it would be very interesting yeah to actually also so you know, I think the interview talking about getting the aluminum from the client, the the normal play, yeah yeah. It's quite interesting news. It's quite interesting because it will now make things a change a bit.

B

Sometimes in my spare time I look at flu sheets and just think these crazy things how I can also sort of go about. You know not the normal base processes and all those kind of things just try and look for other alternative ways. So it's very interesting back on the normal place.

A

B

All right, all right, okay, so uh I don't know on my side. uh Is it enough that we'll speak then? Maybe during the week I I think, maybe no late on wednesday. I should have it done and I'll just let you know, and then I don't know how flexible, because I know you're quite busy, I'm sure you're dealing with a lot of people, so I also just prefer to at least come in when you are a bit free. So I don't know when is the best time to maybe speak.

A

B

After years,.

A

Yeah as soon as you, let me know what you got I'll, take a look at it and.

C

A

Set up a time to talk yeah.

B

All right no problem, then, okay, because.

C

B

Even during the week, I'm okay, but I'll also just give you a heads up. If I'm I am not, I can't really talk, but normally anytime. I should be able to uh to to speak to you for a few minutes. If you need to.

A

B

A

Excellent, thank you so we'll be in touch and.

D

Look forward to too much all right next.

B

Iteration, okay, okay, no great stuff, then I'll yeah thanks. Likewise, okay.

A

Take care then.

B

B