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From YouTube: 2022-11-03 Governance Committee private meeting
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A
B
B
C
A
E
I
I'm
in
the
office
today
so
I
had
to
look
a
little
bit
more
presentable.
A
E
D
D
E
Welcome
Trask,
I
guess
this
is
your
first
governance
meeting.
We.
D
E
C
D
B
I
did
I
did
so
should
I
start
should
I
should
I
give
an
introduction
to
the
problem
and
go
for
it
all
right.
So
I'm
not
I'm,
not
quite
sure
that
I,
so
here's
the
thing
I
think
we.
We
are
all
here
representing
vendors,
and
that
is
a
reflection
of
of
the
past
experiences
of
us
as
individuals
right.
So
many
of
you
build
distributed
tracing
debugging
systems
before
most
people
had
even
had
this
problem,
but
I
think
that's
that's
really.
B
Nice
is
this,
shows
the
quality
of
the
tools
that
we
have
today,
but
I
think
right
now
we
if
we
have
a
poor
representation
of
users
at
the
board
and
it's
it's
not,
and
it's
not
an
easy
prompt.
So
it's
not
just
like
we
tell
your
users
to
run
for
the
board.
B
I
continue
on
that.
I
have
to
say
that
there
are
two
people
on
the
board
representing
end
users.
I
think
Yuri
ran
last
year
and
part
of
his
proposal
was
to
represent
end
users
but
at
the
same
time
he's
also
a
tool
developer.
So
it's
not
like
you
know
the
usual
end
user
in
from
my
perspective
and
alolality,
is
also
representing
end
users
and
was
just
reelected
so
I
think,
but
even
before
you
know
she
was
not
representing
end.
B
Now,
going
back
to
to
my
main
argument
and
I
think
that
it's
not
easy
to
to
ask
for
end
users
to
just
run
for
the
board
and
expect
to
get
elected,
because
the
people
who
are
voting
are
mostly
folks
who
make
GitHub
contributions
in
some
way,
either
by
making
comments
or
pull
requests
and
so
on
and
those
folks.
They
have
a
closer
connection
to
us
because
we
are
part
of
the
project
on
a
daily
basis
as
well,
and
we
we
collaborate
mostly
on
GitHub.
B
So
we
just
kind
of
you
know
it
is
our
circle
of
influence
and
I.
Think
we
really
as
a
project.
We
really
need
to
get
more
end
users
sharing
their
voices
at
the
board
level,
and
it's
just
so
that
kind
of
problem.
B
What
I
so
I
guess
the
problem
is
known
to
all
of
us
and
I
was
really
trying
to
get
feedback
from
other
folks
and
on
how
to
get
it,
which
kind
of
solution
would
be
acceptable
and
I
think
the
one
that
I
like
the
most
right
now
and
I'm
open
to
other
suggestions,
but
the
one
that
I
like
the
most
right
now
is
having
dedicated
seats
for
end
users
and
then
having
a
broader
voting
or
a
voter
or
voter
role
or
for
voters
for
those
two
seats
and
then
having
the
other.
B
Seven
seats
has
been
elected
just
like
they
are
today.
So
if
that
results
in
mortgages,
there's
been
elected
in
two,
that's
good
or
you
know
that's
okay,
but
we
ensure
that
we
have
at
least
two
end
users
being
elected.
Now
there
is
another
can
of
worms
problems
and
what
is
an
end
user
and
are
they
representing
companies
or
themselves
and
so
on
so
forth.
B
But
then
I
think
this
is
for
the
beginning
of
the
discussion.
I
think
that's
that's
a
that
should
be
enough.
I
think
not.
D
Direct
I
apologize
for
not
directly
responding
to
what
you're
saying
maybe
I
should,
but
first
of
all,
I,
don't
like
having
these
strenuous
objections
to
that.
But
a
couple
I
don't
remember
if
it
was
one
year
or
two
years
ago,
but
right
after
one
of
these
GC
elections,
we
had
like
a
longer
meeting
where
we
wrote
down
a
list
of
like
problems
affecting
open
Telemetry
as
a
project
and
then
some
sort
of
voting
system
to
stack
rank
them
in
some
way.
D
There
are
lots
of
problems
you
might
be
trying
to
solve
with
this
proposal,
which
again
I'm
not
like
opposed
to
exactly,
but
in
some
ways
I
almost
want
the
GC
to
like
a
line
around
that
first,
before
we
figure
out
what
problem
we're
solving
like
I
mean
I
could
speculate
about
what
problem
you're
trying
to
solve.
D
I
have
a
few
of
my
own
that
might
be
helped
by
having
I
do
just
on
the
GC,
but
we
talked
about
like
before
just
before
the
election
I
think
Alita
brought
up
the
idea,
or
maybe
it
was
Theory
brought
up.
Video
of
just
like
fusing
the
GC
and
TC
together,
for
instance,
like
also
a
very
reasonable
idea.
D
D
A
Just
as
like
a
not
really
a
sidebar,
necessarily
just
something
some
color
on
it,
because
you
know
I
think
this
is
one
thing
you
see
at
the
sea
at
the
foundation
level
with
the
cncf
end
user
POC
and
the
end
user
governance
parts
of
that
org,
the
line
between
end
user
and
implementer
gets
pretty
hazy
like
it's
kind
of
I
mean
like,
for
example,
I
think
all
of
us.
Actually
all
of
our
employers
are
end
users,
because
we
are
the
end
users
of
kubernetes,
rightly
We,
Are
and
some
of
us.
A
You
know
GitHub
is
a
great
example
right.
They
have
a
someone
on
the
one
I
think
with
the
GitHub
one
of
the
TOC
members,
the
end
user
ctuc
members
is
from
GitHub
right
now
and
it's
like
well.
They
have
a
like
legit
financial
interest
in
kubernetes
and
stuff
right
because
of
the
Microsoft
connection
because
of
the
Azure
connection.
A
You
know
and
I
think
that
the
definition
of
that
would
end
up
being
like
really
really
hard
and
while
I
don't
disagree
with
you,
I
kind
of
agree
with
Ben
about
the
figuring
out
like
what
are
we
trying
to
solve
here
and
also,
if
it's
just
that,
we
don't
feel
like
actual
people
that
end
up
using
the
code
that
the
project
puts
out
have
enough,
say
or
influence.
Then
maybe
there
are
better
ways
to
do
that
by
sort
of
empowering
like
the
end
user
or
working
group.
E
Yeah
also
an
end
user
seat
on
the
board
we
would
have
to
Define.
Is
this
somebody
elected
by
end
users?
And
if
so,
then,
how
do
we
decide
who
gets
a
vote?
Because
that
is
not
necessarily
easy
to.
You
know,
not
necessarily
who
contributes
on
GitHub
and
stuff
like
that
much
harder
to
find
out.
B
I
guess
I,
don't
know
how
critical
it
is
well
so
to
the
Ico
problems
here.
So
first
is
how
to
how
do
we
Define,
integers
and
I?
B
Think
I
would
use
this
form
intelligence
in
letting
people
just
vote
for
what
they
think
represent
their
voices,
and
the
second
is
what
is
then,
who
are
part
of
the
swarm
intelligence
so
who
are
the
voters
and
again
I
would
just
say:
have
it
wider
or
have
it
very
wide
and
publicize
it
on
our
official
channels
and
so
on,
and
just
let
anyone
vote
who
thinks
that
they
would
be
an
angel,
therefore,
or
a
someone
with
interests
in
in
open
telemetry.
B
D
D
It's
I
think
the
vendors
are
actually
behaving
very
well
together
and
we're
all
being
really
nice
genuinely,
which
is
good,
but
we're
still
not
really
optimizing
for
the
out
of
the
box
experience
with
hotel
to
my
liking
like,
and
it's
just
we're
not
taking
a
product
lens,
and
if
we
were
to
bring
end
users
in
honestly
the
ones
is
opinions
I
care
about
the
most
are
the
ones
who
care
the
least
but
Hotel.
D
D
The
idea
of
the
of
the
project
being
more
product
focused
and
more
end
user,
focused
for
sure
and
one
potential
way
to
fix
that
we
have
end
user
on
the
GC,
but
the
DC
isn't
even
really
doing
roadmap
work
like
you
all
know
that
at
least
maybe
trust
isn't
aware.
But
like
we
never
talk
about
that,
the
TC
might,
but
not
with
a
very
you
know,
strong
fist
right
so,
like
I,
don't
know
if
that
makes
any
sense.
D
But
it's
like
it's
again:
I,
don't
really
have
an
objection
to
it,
but
in
terms
of
the
problem,
I
would
want
to
solve
with
end
users
having
people
who
are
willing
to
devote
the
time
are
the
ones
who
won't
give
us
the
right
feedback,
which
is
like
I.
Don't
care
about
hotel
I
just
want
my
stuff
to
work.
I
don't
know.
C
B
So
I
think
I
can
think
of
one
situation
where
having
and
visitors
would
have
helped,
which
is
basically,
you
know
the
query
language
which
thing
that
we
had
now
I,
don't
agree
with
what
all
that
is
said
and
I
think
it
is
a
problem
that
I
haven't
thought
about
before,
but
it
did
make
me
it
just
made
me.
B
It
just
makes
me
think
about
what
are
and
I
think
it
ties
back
to
what
UD
has
asked
a
couple
of
weeks
ago.
So
what?
What
is
the
main
purpose
for
us
in
here
right
now?
If
we
look
at
the
charter,
the
first
two
or
three
items
are
bootstrap
AGC.
B
So
the
the
role
for
the
first
GC
is
tribute
strategy
C
and
then
establish
the
perfect
missions
and
emission
Direction
and
so
on.
What
is
the
current
role
for
the
GC?
Can
we
spell
it
out
and
in
that
document
in
that
Charter,
that
we
have
right
now
and
then
see
if
the
end
users
inputs
would
benefit
in
achieving
those
goals?
B
D
F
E
E
E
I
guess
the
question
is:
should
the
GC
be
more
of
a
like
a
guiding
role
to
to
to
respond
to
what
gerasi
just
said
about
the
query
language
that
seems
like
like
that
decision
is
a
TC
decision
by
the
way
that
we've
sort
of
drawn
that
line
in
the
past
I
know
we
did
talk
about
it
in
the
GC
and
we
had
our
opinion
there,
but
the
TCF
is
the
body
that
makes
those
decisions
at
the
end
of
the
day.
A
F
A
I,
don't
think
they
I,
don't
think
they
either
know
or
care
about
that
difference
and
I,
don't
think
it.
A
F
Yeah
I
mean
that
was
my
sense
right,
like
it
both
the
unplugged
event
and
the
project
meeting.
If,
if
I
didn't
like,
if
people
hadn't
asked
like
you
or
me
like,
are
you
contributor
and
you
user
and
had
people
raise
their
hands
I,
don't
think
anyone
would
have
known
or
cared
to
make
that
distinction
yeah.
F
Yeah
they're
far
more
than
I
expected,
but
certainly
if
you
had
that
meeting
two
years
ago,
yeah
would
have
been
the
other
way
around,
but
no
yeah
in
the
in
the
project
meeting
I
think
it
was
almost
like
a
two-thirds
end
users
to
one-third
contributors,
split
and,
of
course,
a
number
of
those
contributors.
Some
of
them
were
also
and
users.
A
Yeah
I
think
really.
You
know
again.
This
I
I
feel
like
for
the
questions
that
need
end
user
feedback.
Then
there
are
probably
other
ways
that
might
be
easier
to
actually
like
spin
up
and
test
out
by
working
with
sort
of
the
end
user
working
groups
and
trying
to
establish
more
of
a
you
know,
Community,
but
also
to
be
able
to
have
more
actual
feedback
right
like
to
Ben's
point
I,
don't
feel
like
there's
a
great
feedback
loop
from
end
users
to
maintainers
to
the
GC.
A
E
I
think
this
is
also
a
specialization,
or
instance,
of
a
much
larger
problem,
which
is
that,
if,
if
you
take
for
granted
that
the
TC
sets
most
of
the
general
direct,
the
the
technical
Direction
and
makes
most
of
the
technical
decisions,
the
ability
and
the
path
for
any
outside
voices
to
get
in
at
all
is
extremely
limited.
And.
D
Would
it
be
good
to
try
and
set
aside
an
hour
in
one
of
these
next
couple
of
Thursdays
instead
of
half
an
hour
to
have
this?
You
know
we
I
actually
thought
the
mechanism
we
did
last
time
whenever
that
was
I,
don't
know
Morgan
Ogden.
Do
you
even
remember?
Was
it
two
years
ago
it
was
two
years
ago
it
was
right
when
I
joined,
oh.
D
So
I
thought
that
mechanism
was
fine.
It
was
basically
like
some
async
work
ahead
of
time,
putting
stuff
into
the
spreadsheet,
ranking
things
and
then
sort
of
just
talking
about
them
in
priority
order.
I
thought
it
was
useful
and
it
was
a
nice
way
to
kind
of
kick
off
a
new
GC
season
or
whatever,
and
we
could
do
that
and
drawsi
I
think
it.
It
might
be
like
a
helpful
input
into
the
actual
decision
around
adding
end
users
to
the
GC
or
whatever
I
react.
I
realized.
F
Thought
it
was
an
effective
exercise
then,
and
we
did
a
similar
exercise
at
kubecon.
We
were
mostly
focusing
on
like
project
roadmap.
The
items
like
like
what
do
people
want
to
ship
but
still
I,
think
the
inputs
from
that
are
probably
valuable
for
this
yeah.
D
C
D
Like
it
wouldn't
be
so
much
oh
yeah,
we
need
to
ship
this
thing.
That
would
be
more
like
got
it
okay,
you
know
last
time,
I
remember
the
top
one
is
like
there
aren't
enough
maintainers
correct.
C
To
address
is
the
original
question
about
adding
end
users
I
wonder
if
it
would
be
more
effective
to
to
allocate
to
seats
in
the
GC
sort
of
for
people
who
represent
end
users,
because
I
think
of
like
it
may
be
more
useful
to
get
somebody
like
ashar
from
New,
Relic
or,
like
you
know,
somebody
who's.
You
know
really
working
with
the
community
like
Austin.
You
know
that
could
pull
in
aggregate
more
of
that
end,
user
feedback.
A
I
mean
if
we
want
to
add
more
Community
managers
that
is
up
to
you
all
I,
probably
I,
don't
think
I
would
complain
necessarily,
but
it's
still
somewhat
a
broad
and
underspecified
role.
So.
E
A
C
But
I
I
drew
also
really
like
the
proposal
of
starting
with
the
spreadsheet
I
had
looked
through
some
history
of
the
GC
stuff
and
seen
that
spreadsheet
from
two
years
ago
and
I
thought
that
looked
really
useful
to
me,
also
just
for
even
understanding
what
it
is
that
the
GC
is
really
responsible
for
so
I
think,
starting
with
that
and
then
going
into
that
I
think
will
lead
into
other
questions
of
like
tcgc
split
those
things
which
I
agree
with
Yuri's
kind
of
original
question
on
the
tcgc
split
I
had
that
same
thought
when
I
was
running,
I
was
reading
through
the
GC
Charter
and
I
was
like
okay.
C
These
aren't
exactly
what
like
First
of
all,
there's,
not
really
that
much
there
that
the
GC
is
responsible
for
and
some
of
the
things
that
I'm
interested
in
trying
to
influence
and
help
in
the
project
aren't
really
there
they're
officially
under
the
TC
Charter.
G
I
I
believe
that
GC
based
on
the
rules,
if
I'm,
not
a
mistake,
it
still
has
the
power
of
influencing
the
direction,
but
it's
actually
not
happening
in
reality.
In
the
past
three
three
years,
I've
never
seen
initiatives
coming
from
GC
and
say:
hey
TC.
You
have
to
focus
on
doing
this,
I
mean
we
were
in
the
TC
a
couple
of
times
we
heard
from
GCA.
We
have
to
focus
on
finishing
metrics.
We
have
to
focus
on
this
work
coming
and
we
deliver
on
our
Pace.
G
Let's
say
sometimes
we
will
slow
doesn't
matter
that,
but
in
general
and
I
haven't
seen
too
many
initiatives
coming
from
GDC
and
say:
hey
I,
believe
hotels
should
focus
on
supporting
a
query
language,
for
example,
I,
don't
know
the
right
thing
to
do
or
like
query
language
per
se,
but
I
would
like
to
see
now
with
my
TNT
hat.
I
would
like
to
see
from
GC
coming
in
some
some
list
of
initiatives,
priorities
for
the
project
in
their
opinion
that
the
TC
can
focus
on.
G
G
G
B
Yeah,
so
dgc
has
a
part
where
it
says
the
role
of
the
series
to
set
the
overall
vision
for
the
project
and
so
on.
But
that's
pretty
much
the
only
thing
that
that
the
GC
would
do.
G
But
if
we
do
that,
I
mean
I,
don't
know
if
GC
has
to
say
guys.
You
should
use
the
blog
for
j
or
slf
or
J
like
I
I.
Think
it's
it's
more
or
less
like
you
should
focus
on
supporting
whatever
Integrations
or
focus
on
Integrations
instead
of
logs
or
things
like
that
or
or
some
some
high
level
things
that
I
would
like
to
see
from
GC
coming
and
suggesting
to
the
PC
to
to
to
focus
on.
B
G
Know
something
like
yeah
yeah:
that's
how
how
GC
so
so
I
was
trying
now
to
establish
the
contract
between
GC
and
TC.
How
GC
achieves
that?
It's
it's
on
this
group
to
to
determine
how
how
we
achieve
that
list,
but
but
I
think
this
is
how
I
see
the
contract,
and
maybe
if
this
is
not
the
case,
let's,
let's
clarify
between
the
two
groups,
that
this
is
the
expected
contract
between
the
groups,
and
this
is
the
working
model
that
we
want
to
adopt
and
then
start
focusing
on
on
building
this
working
model.
F
B
I'm
going
to
create
a
Google
doc
and
share
with
you
all
from
the
GC
Channel
on
with
the
current
text
of
the
charter,
and
then
we
can
start
making
suggestions
on
how
it
should
look
like,
ideally
from
today
or
not.
You
know
so,
removing
the
bootstrapping
parts
and
living
the
vision
statement,
and
then
we
iterate
from
that
and
with
the
final
outcome.
We
can
then
see
whether
it
makes
sense
to
either
join
the
GC
with
agency
or
keep
it
as
it
is
or
extend
it
to
CS4.
D
D
Think
we
do
an
independent,
it
is
I.
Think
people
seem
to
think
that's
a
good
idea.
If
we
do
this
GitHub
thing
in
parallel,
I
think
I
will
object.
Anything.
That's
like
a
huge
scope,
change,
I'm,
happy
to
like
remove
the
bootstrapping
and
all
that
stuff,
but,
like
I,
don't
see
why
we
would
do
that
in
front
of
having
discussion
about
the
problems
we're
trying
to
solve.
It
just
seems
like
putting
the
card
for
the
horse,
not
because
I
think
the
changes
are
bad,
just
like
just
seems
like
the
wrong
sequencing.
E
B
D
The
first
that's
available
really
and
I
think
we
just
we
didn't
probably
need
like
an
hour
to
have
the
meeting
and
then
I
would
suggest
you
do
it.
Two
weeks
from
now,
although
I'm
realizing
I
think
I'm
on
vacation
in
two
weeks.
Maybe
that's
what
I
said
we
can
I,
don't
know
like
yeah.
D
All
right
sounds
good.
I'll,
take
an
item
to
start
that
process.
So
I've
got
the
template
from
before
all.