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From YouTube: College Disrupted: The Great Unbundling of Higher Education — Oplerno ◐ Woodblock 2015
Description
College Disrupted: The Great Unbundling of Higher Education, Discussion with Author Ryan Craig and Oplerno Founder Rob Skiff
A
A
So
let
me
first
introduce
Ryan
Craig
he's
the
author
of
college
disrupted.
The
great
unbundling
of
higher
education
he's.
Also
the
founding
managing
director
of
university
ventures
is
an
investment
company
focused
on
the
global
higher
education
sector.
Ryan
leads
the
firm's
investments
in
university
now
in
the
C
portfolio,
Ryan
also
founded
and
built
wellspring,
the
largest
and
leading
organization
of
treatment,
programs
for
overweight
and
obese
children,
adolescents
and
young
adults.
A
He
began
his
career
as
a
consultant
with
McKinsey
&
Company
and
received
his
Bachelor
degrees
in
literature
and
economics
from
Yale
University
and
his
law
degree
from
Yale
Law
School
he's
a
member
of
the
board
of
directors
of
Claremont
Lincoln
University
and
is
on
the
advisory
board
of
the
UCLA
Extension
he's
the
author,
like
I,
said
before
of
college
disrupted
the
great
unbundling
of
higher
education,
which
is
published
by
Palgrave
Macmillan
in
March
of
this
year,
so
welcome
to
woodlock.
We
really
appreciate
your
calling
in
and
talking
with
us.
A
B
A
So
you
know
we'll
let
some
jump
in
and
talk
a
little
bit
about
about
college
disrupted
and,
let's
start
it
off
with
a
question
you
know
higher
education
is
changing
in
your
book,
argues
for
a
very
dramatic
transformation
in
the
way
we
think
access
and
deliver
education.
So
what
event
or
insight
did
you
have
that
made
writing
of
this
book?
Important
to
you.
B
It
would
be
a
currency
that
you
could.
You
could
break
down
into
more
discrete
units
than
a
degree,
so
not
not,
but
not
at
the
course
level,
not
at
the
MOOC
level
for
sure,
but
at
the
level
of
the
competency,
if
we
actually
could
communicate
one
to
another,
namely
employers,
job
seekers
and
education
providers
in
the
language.
In
the
lexicon
of
competencies
we
would
go,
we
would
go
a
long
way
to
address
it.
B
I
think
many
of
the
challenges
of
facing
a
higher
higher
education
and
that's
the
the
notion
of
of
unbundling,
if
you
think
of
a
degree
as
a
bundle
of
many
different
things,
its
general
education.
It's
your
major!
If
distribution
requirements,
it's
it's
a
bundle
and
what
do
students
and
job
seekers
actually
need
and
want?
It
may
not
be
the
full,
the
full
bundle
it
may
be.
It
may
be,
you
know
a
few
core
in
an
assessment
it
may
be
a
year
or
two.
It
may
be
a
certificate.
B
So
in
the
same
way
as
we've
seen,
unbundling
occur
in
music
or
it's
happening
now
and
in
cable
television.
No
longer
are
you
going
to
be
required
to
buy
the
full
cable
package
of
300
channels.
You
don't
watch
you'll
be
able
to
buy
the
show
the
channels
you
want,
and
probably
just
the
shows
you
you
want
so
I.
B
You
know
the
question
was:
if
you
could,
if
you
could
create
a
language
of
of
competencies
likely
through
using
using
technology
to
do
so,
what
what
could
the
impact
be
on
the
on
the
bundle,
the
degree
bundle
and
what
would
that
mean
for
the
future
of
higher
education?
So
that
was
the
the
basic
impetus
and
well
in
the
book.
I
cover
a
lot
of
ground,
leading
up
to
what
I
call
the
grade
on
bundling.
That
is
probably
the
focal
point
you.
A
Know
it's
it's
interesting.
You
know
you're
mentioning
the
yahoo
group
that
came
together
to
think
about
this
in
in
technology
and
computer
programming,
I
think
in
large
cases,
that
unbundling
has
occurred
in
trying
to
identify
really
good
computer
programmers
or
people
who
can
work
on
projects
in
some
ways,
it's
much
more
valuable
to
look
at
what
they've
done
on
github
and
their
portfolio
than
it
is
to
look
at
where
what
degree
they
got
to
what
courses
they
took.
You
know
from
a
particular
institution.
Do
you
agree
with
that?
A
B
So
actually,
you
know
this
morning
on
that
last
point:
there
was
an
article.
They
talked
about
the
fact
that
both
Ernst
and
Young
and
price
Waterhouse
Coopers
in
the
UK
are
no
longer
going
to
filter
applicants
to
interview
based
on
their
education,
they're,
going
to
filter
them
based
on
their
performance
and
online
tests.
So
amazing,
so
I
tweeted
this
morning
that
as
a
currency
degrees,
are
having
about
as
good
a
year
as
the
euro.
B
I
think,
but
for
sure,
there's
no
question
that
that
technology
companies
are
leading
the
way
in
skills
based
hiring
Google
has
been
hiring
students,
who've
completed
courses
in
Udacity
without
regard
to
their
educational
background.
As
you
say,
you
know
we
we
own
a
company
called
galvanize,
which
is
one
of
the
leading
coding
boot
camps
and
they
have
a
ninety-eight
percent
placement
rate
and
most
of
their
students
today
still
come
in
with
with
degrees.
A
B
Quality
of
their
of
their
work,
so
I
mean
we.
We
we're
big
believers
in
that,
and
certainly
there
are
you
know
some
professions
where
seeing
the
work
you
know
coding
for
sure
most
technology,
technology,
jobs,
certainly
art
and
design
work,
really
lend
itself
to
kind
of
an
e-portfolio
approach
and
employers.
They
can
evaluate
the
portfolio
that
that
will
dwarf
the
degree
in
terms
of
a
hiring
criteria.
B
A
B
I
mean
make
no
mistake
here:
what
we're
not
we're,
not
talking
about
employers
literally
hiring
someone,
because
they
see
their
work.
What
we're
talking
about
is
the
filtering
function
right,
so
today,
technology's
actually
made
hiring
more
challenging
more
complex
for
employers
than
that
then
easier,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
that
for
every
job
opening
they
get
hundreds
of
applications
submitted
online
that
are
very
difficult
to
distinguish
one
from
another.
B
Most
applicants
will
have
similar
education,
similar
qualifications
and
the
way
they're
actually
filtering
right
now,
employee,
large
employers
will
have
application
tracking
systems
that
will
filter
those
applications
and
if
they're
filtering
them
based
on
keywords,
keywords
map
to
the
Job
Description
right.
So
in
the
book,
I
talked
about
this
phenomenon
of
resume
spam,
where
you
have
applicants
and
literally
will
be
copying
the
job
description
in
white
font
into
their
resume
or
their
cover
letter,
so
that
you
can
pass
the
application
tracking
system
filter
and
that's
not
a
very
good
filter.
B
What
it
means
is
that,
as
the
employer
is
selecting
which
10
or
20
candidates
candidates,
they
actually
want
to
interview
they're
going
to
end
up
with-
probably
you
know,
20
false
negatives
they'll
be
excluding
20
people
from
the
set
who
actually
are
qualified
and
of
the
20.
They
select
that
probably
have
you
know,
10
or
15
false
positives.
So
the
likelihood
that
you're
going
to
hire
the
wrong
candidate
or
an
unqualified
candidate
is
actually
pretty
high.
B
So
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
that
is
the
filtering
function,
where
employers,
on
the
basis
of
using
what
I
call
competency,
marketplaces
or
e-portfolios
are
evaluating
the
work
they're
not
doing
it
themselves
right.
Employers
are
never
going
to
actually
get
to
the
level
of
looking
at
the
work
that
some
candidate
has.
What
they're
going
to
use
there,
that
they're
going
to
rely
on
algorithms
and
intelligent
systems
to
filter
those
those
competencies
and
that
those
portfolios
for
them
identify
what
competencies
are
demonstrated
as
a
result
and
and
and
and
then
select
from
that
filtered
set.
B
A
How
do
you
evaluate
a
degree?
What
does
a
degree
really
mean?
How
did
it
serve
a
social,
a
social
function,
a
social
sorting,
function,
yep,
and
you
know
how
much
you
know
as
a
as
a
person
who
started
a
private
school
who's.
You
know
taught
it.
You
know
the
K
through
twelve
and
then
into
college.
Sometimes
it's
very
difficult
to
evaluate
well,
how
much
did
I
teach
the
student
and
how
much
did
I
just
get
out
of
the
way
of
the
student
learning
that.
B
Is
a
there's
a
lot
found
out
than
what
you
just
what
you
just
said.
Keep
in
mind
that
when
American
colleges
and
universities
started,
they
really
did
start
almost
exactly
as
a
socialist
social
selection
function
right.
It
was
for
the
wealthy
merchants
of
the
American
colonies
to
send
their
send
their
children,
so
their
children
could
essentially
be
distinguished
in
society
as
leaders
right,
education
leaders
and
in
the
in
the
20th
century.
Our
system
of
higher
education
became
a
democratic
system
for
the
entire
population
and
a
merit-based,
an
American
based
system.
B
The
challenge
is
that
46
percent
of
students
who
attempt
to
start
a
food
to
attempt
degree
programs-
don't
complete
them
at
this
point,
so
we
really
have
a
one-size-fits-all
system.
At
this
point,
it's
what
I
call
isomorphism
right.
Everyone
is
trying
to
emulate
the
excellent
institutions,
and
we,
you
know,
we
know
what
excellence
is.
B
Excellence
is
the
Ivy,
League,
plus
Stanford,
plus
MIT
and
so
forth,
but
that
doesn't
mean
that
you
know
that's
the
optimal
way
to
provide
post-secondary
education
for
an
entire
population
of
320
million
people,
let
alone
a
you
know:
global
population
of
seven
billion
people.
We
are
very,
you
know,
enthusiastic
about
a
multiplicity
of
different
credentials
and
post-secondary
education
opportunities.
The
challenge
is
that
that
vision
tends
to,
you
know,
yield
if
you
will
sort
of
an
alphabet
soup
of
badges
and
certificates
where
it's
sort
of
you
know.
What
does
that
mean?
I
mean
I,
think
you'll.
B
You
know
we
believe
that
that
will
be
sorted
by
competency,
marketplaces
that
will
emerge
where
algorithms
will
be
able
to
extract
and
parse
competencies
from
your
resumes
from
your
transcripts
match
them
with
the
competencies
that
are
required
by
job
descriptions
and
really
provide
a
much
more
effective
filter
filtering
system
than
we
have
than
we
have
today.
I
do
want
to
speak
to
your
question
about
you
know.
What
does
this
mean
about?
The
value
of
you
know
degrees
in
the
appeal
of
you
know
our
top
universities.
B
Presumably
the
employer
is
going
to
continue
to.
You
know,
modify
that
job
description,
so
they
get
more
of
those
LinkedIn
candidates
and
fewer
degree
candidates,
and
at
that
point
I
think
that's,
that's
really
what
that's?
What
triggers?
What
I
call
the
great
unbundling,
where
the
signal
from
degrees
becomes,
if
you
will
you
know,
is,
is
a
lower
signal
than
the
signal
that
employers
begin
to
get
from
these
competency
marketplaces
right.
B
A
Do
you
have
that
yeah
yep?
The
analogy
is
that
you're
making
me
nerds
that
debutante,
it's
slash
finishing
school
or
you
know,
I,
think
right
on
the
money
you
know
did
it's
that
it's
that
seventy
five
percent
in
the
middle
you
know,
like
you,
said
two
or
three
billion
people
who
want
access
to
better
education,
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
reproduce
the
you
know
lead
small
liberal
arts,
residential
living
community
for
those
numbers,
and
so
we
have
to
come
up
with
some
solution
that
helps
to
maximize
human
potential.
B
It's
not
just
simply
a
resource
issue
right
its
effect.
We,
you
know
we
are
trying
to
do
that
right
now,
for
you
know,
20
million
students
in
the
US
and
almost
half
of
them
aren't
succeeding.
So
we
have
to
keep
that
in
mind.
You
know
when
Arne
Duncan
Secretary
of
Education
says
he's
not
concerned
overly
concerned
about
the
fact
that
students
are
graduating
with
bachelor's
degrees,
with
30,000
in
debt.
I
agree
with
them.
I
think
that's
absolutely
right.
The
bigger
concern,
much
bigger
concern
are
the
students
who
were
graduating.
B
Excuse
me,
who
are
not
completing
with
10
20,
30
$40,000
and
that's
the
problem
because
they
get
nothing
for
that.
It's
not
valued
in
the
market
in
an
unbundled
world.
You
know
if
you've
taken,
you
know
two
years,
60
credits,
you
don't
have
it.
You
won't
have
a
degree,
but
the
competencies
that
you
gained
will
be
measured
and
valued
in
the
in
the
market.
So
at
you
know,
unbundling
is
good
for
pretty
much
everyone,
except
for
perhaps
the
universities
that
don't
don't
begin
to
change
so.
A
If
you're
a
student
today
with
good
grades
and
a
work
ethic,
what
kinds
of
factors
should
you
be
thinking
about
when
you're
choosing
the
higher
education
institution?
Are
you
talking
about
reputation
of
the
institution
cost?
You
said
you
know
you
mentioned
a
little
bit
about
the
amount
of
debt
they
pay
for
the
education
on
the
quality
of
the
instruction.
You
know
you're
a
junior
senior
in
high
school.
Well,
where
would
you
start
looking
well?
How
would
you
start
to
assemble
your
your
education,
given
what
the
environment
is
like
today,
yeah.
B
So
I
think
you
know
again:
III
cannot
predict
the
timing
of
this
I
think
you
know.
Unbundling
will
probably
see
the
start
of
it
in
five
years.
A
decade
from
now
I
think
we'll
be
well
into
it,
but
I
think
that
it
would
be
foolish
to
tell
you
know
a
high
school
student
today
that
you
know
a
degree
doesn't
I
think
yes,
that's
sort
of
where
Peter
Thiel
comes
out
or
not
I
disagree
with
them.
I
think
it
matters
for
the
foreseeable
future,
at
least,
and
certainly
brands
matter.
B
If
you
can
get
into
a
top
of
you
know
a
brand
name
institution
that
will
have
a
high
value
for
you
well
beyond
the
academic
program.
Obviously
it's
been
documented,
I
think
beyond
that,
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're
choosing
from
among
sort
of
non
elite
non
brand-name
institutions,
the
most
important
element
of
your
choice
is
actually
what
you
major
in.
If
you
can
major
in
stem
oriented,
subject
matter
you're
much
more
likely
to
to
be
employed
at
a
good
salary
starting
out,
which
is
really
the
key
step.
B
B
I
think
that
in
a
couple
of
years,
we'll
be
in
a
place
where
you
know
what
I
call
these
just-in-time
providers
like
these
coding
boot
camps
really
become
viable
alternatives
to
a
degree
program,
for
you
know,
18
19
year-old
students-
and
you
know
they
they'll
they'll
be
able
to
go,
and
you
know
take
a
course
or
two
for
three
or
three
to
six
months
and
go
right
into
a
job
and
I.
Think
it's
not
just
technology
I
think
we'll
see
other
other
sectors
emerge
with
just-in-time
options,
probably
in
healthcare,
maybe
even
financial
services,
energy.
B
It's
a
it's
a
model
where
you
know
for
sure
you're,
not
getting.
You
know
the
broad
liberal
arts.
You
know,
distribution
requirements
taken
care
of,
and
it's
hard
to
argue
that
students
are
going
to
be
as
well-off
in
terms
of
those
core
cognitive
functions,
critical
thinking
and
so
forth
that
are
so
predictive
of
career
performance.
But
it
is
hard
to
argue
that
you
need
alt.
You
need
to
get
all
that
done
at
you
know
in
a
you
know,
two
to
four
year
stretch
from
between
the
ages
of
18
to
22
right.
B
Why
can't
you
take
a
three
months
experience
to
work
for
a
year?
Come
back.
Do
you
want
to
do
another
three-month
course?
Maybe
even
value
the
experience
to
a
to
a
greater
degree
than
you
would
if
you
were
just
going
straight
through
so
you
know,
I
think
that
sort
of
you
know
just-in-time
model
or
you
know,
sort
of
a
lifetime
learning
model.
It
is
you
know,
that's
sort
of
a
lot
of
people
in
higher
education
have
been
focused
on.
How
do
we
get?
How
do
we
get
there?
B
A
So
you
know
a
player
knows
a
startup
we're
in
the
educational
were
in
the
educational
sphere,
working
to
gain
traction.
So
if
you
know
so
what
strategies
and
and
what
sort
of
growth
areas
do
you
think
there
are
for
startups
to
deal
with
this
disruption?
That
is,
you
know
what
you
you
say
that
it's
about
five
to
ten
years
out.
What
would
you
get
involved
in
where,
where
do
you?
Where
do
you
see
the
opportunity
sure.
B
A
B
Education
process
and
the
hiring
process
right
I
know
one
large
employer
has
said
that
they
only
actually
refer
to
the
transcript
in
the
hiring
process
as
a
honesty
test.
The
last
questions
about
it
to
make
sure
that
the
student
actually
is
is
being
honest
about
the
transcript,
but
it's
not
has
nothing
to
do
with
actually
what
they've
learned
or
trying
to
measure
what
they,
what
they,
what
they've
learned
or
what
their
competencies
are.
B
So
it's
a
it's.
It's
a
fairly
opaque
device
right
now,
but
we
have
we
their
schools
like
Elon
and
Stanford
that
are
trying
to
develop
a
transcript,
that's
actually
dynamic
and
meaningful
for
employers.
We
call
it
a
double-click
degree
where
you
can
literally
double
click
on
a
course
and
based
on
the
level
of
achievement.
The
student
exhibited
in
that
course
ascertain
what
competencies
that
student
has
has
obtained.
It
should
be
able
to
to
demonstrate
so
you
know
that
that
is.
B
That
is
something
that
universities
can
do
themselves,
but
I
think
more
likely
they'll
do
with
partner
in
partner
entity
entities
we're
looking
at
a
number
of
companies
that
try
and
get
at
that
in
different
ways.
From
an
e-portfolio
standpoint
from
a
curriculum
management
standpoint,
you
know
I
think
that's
I,
think
that's
interesting.
I
think
that
I
think
that
companies
that
try
to
bridge
the
gap
between
higher
education
and
the
labor
market
are
extremely
interesting.
B
We
just
made
a
small
investment
in
a
company
called
Pro
Sky,
which
provides
ten
week-long
wholly
online
courses
in
specific
skills
based
areas
like
digital
marketing,
SEO
sales
to
students,
while
they're
still
in
college
students
are
doing
these
courses,
the
courses,
the
curriculum,
our
projects
that
are
provided
by
employers
that
are,
on
the
other
end.
Looking
at
the
student
work,
looking
at
the
students
working
together
in
teams
and
are
hiring
students
right
out
of
those
courses,
they
have
about
a
50
percent
placement
rate
after
a
10-week
online
course.
So
talk
about
a
great
capstone.
B
You
know
there
are
even
staffing
staffing
companies,
traditional
staffing
companies
that
are
getting
into
the
business
of
reaching
out
into
colleges
and
universities,
doing
some
training,
just
like
the
type
I
described
of
college
and
university
students,
while
they're
still
in
college
by
having
them
graduate,
have
them,
come
to
sort
of
a
boot
camp
type
thing
and
then
placing
them
in
in
companies.
So
those
businesses,
we
think
are,
are
interesting.
The
gap
that
has
existed
from
time
immemorial
between
higher
education,
the
labor
market,
is
closing
up.
It's
closing
up
because
we
have
the
data.
B
If
you
think
about
it,
it's
really.
It's
really
a
data
problem.
What
do
employers
need?
What
should
hire
educate,
which
idea?
What
should
education
providers
be?
Delivering
that
data
increasingly
increasingly
available
and
I
think
is
likely
I?
Think
the
big
winners
are
not
going
to
be
universities,
they're
not
going
to
be
employers
but
they're
going
to
be
intermediaries
that
emerge
to
help
bridge
that
bridge
that
gap,
so.
A
You
know
one
of
the
largest
movements
that
has
happened
in
the
last
five
years
is
sort
of
the
MOOC
movement,
and
you
know
why
do
you
think
the
the
MOOC
movement
failed
in
some
ways?
And
what
do
you
think
the
long-term
prospects
are
for
companies
based
on
the
on
the
model?
Basically
they're
sort
of
companies
that
are
providing
content
to
colleges
and
universities
in
terms
of
their
for
their
education,
yeah.
B
Well,
I
mean
just
on
that
last
point:
you
know
higher
education
tends
to
operate
on
a
you
know
the
principle
that
if
we
didn't
create,
if
we
didn't
create
it
or
more
likely,
if
I
didn't
create
it,
it's
not
worth
it.
It's
not
worth
it's
not
worth
appropriating,
and
so,
if
there
are,
there
are
very
few
examples
of
content
providers
to
universities
that
are
successful
in
having
university
sort
of
adopt
a
curriculum.
Wholesale
universities
are
much
much
more
fond
of
you
know
if
you
will
recreating
the
wheel,
no.
B
The
wheel
and
they
and
they
do
I-
think
that
that
was
certainly
one
element
of
some
of
the
MOOC
companies
business
plans.
You
know
the
hoping
that
unity,
other
you
know
smaller
non
elite
colleges
would
adopt
these
courses
I.
Think
they've
since
come
off
of
that.
Whether
what
they're
now
hoping
to
do
is
put
the
courses
together
in
some
sort
of
sequence
that
becomes
meaningful
for
for
prospective
employees
and
and
employers
Vanessa
to
back
up
one
second
I
mean
we
were.
B
We
were
the
first
public
skeptic
of
MOOCs
when
they
came
out
in
February
of
2012.
We
said:
we've
seen
this
movie
before
we
know
how
it
ends.
You
know,
I
wish
I
lived
in
a
world
where
people
were
willing
to
pay
for
lifelong
learning,
but
I
don't
think
I
live
in
that
world.
Unfortunately,
people
enroll
in
secondary
education
because
they
expect
some
sort
of
economic
return
from
it
and
sure
enough.
You
know
three
years
later,
MOOCs
you
know,
traffic
is
stalled
or
declining.
Eighty
percent
of
students
already
have
degrees.
B
B
A
B
B
Is
that
that
happens
when
unbundling
happens
right
so
when
employers
are
able
to
rely
on
a
signal
from
a
third
party
like
a
LinkedIn
competency
marketplace
that
someone
who
takes
a
Udacity
nano
degree
actually
has
the
competencies
but
they're
looking
for
as
provided
for
in
their
job
description,
then
they'll,
you
know,
they'll
you'll
make
it
into
the
filtered
set
and
you'll
be
interviewed
right.
Otherwise,
you
won't
be
because
they're
not
gonna,
know
what
to
make
of
it.
So
I
think
it's
a
bit
of
a
fool's
errand.
A
Moocs
were
targeted
also
a
lot
on
the
outside
the
US
market.
You
know
thinking
that
you
know
that
was
a
great
way
to
get
students
and
from
outside
the
United
States
and
outside
of
Europe,
creating
a
more
level
playing
field,
and
in
your
book
in
the
chapter
America's
next
great
export,
he
talked
about
the
potential
of
u.s.
higher
learning
as
a
economic
engine
in
this
country.
Can
you
just
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
idea?
Why
do
you
think
in
a
in
a
system
that
people
describe
as
being
so
screwed
up
domestically?
B
Sure
sure
so
you
know,
as
Churchill
famously
said,
you
know,
democracy
is
the
worst
form
of
government,
except
for
all
the
other
kinds.
So
you
know
I
certainly
have
we've
been
in
this
conversation
in
the
book.
I've
been
quite
critical
of
our
system
of
higher
education,
but
it
should
be
said
that
it's
you
know
the
worst,
except
for
all
the
other
kinds
which
are
worse
so
I
think
that
you
know.
On
the
whole
we
have
a
you
know.
B
Our
system
is
viewed,
as
you
know,
the
top
system
of
higher
education
in
the
world
and
I
think
it's
not
just
because
of
the
top.
You
know
50
or
100
institutions
which
you
know
are
you
know,
dominate
the
global
rankings,
but
it
is
because
you
know
we
we
do
attempt
on,
unlike
any
other
country,
to
serve.
You
know
a
very
broad
swath
of
the
population.
You
have
students
here
who
participate
in
in
post-secondary
education
who
and
almost
any
other
country
wouldn't
have
access
to
to
higher
education.
So
that
is.
That
is
a
very
good
thing.
B
You
know
over
the
next
decade,
or
so
we're
gonna
have
about
a
hundred
million
additional
enrollees
in
colleges
and
universities
around
the
world,
and
there
just
isn't
the
capacity
in
those
emerging
markets
to
handle
those
students
and
and
and
even
if
there
were
there's
such
a
thirst
to
attend.
You
know
a
lead
or
quasi
elite
brand-name
institutions
and
in
the
u.s.
I
would
qualify.
B
So
you
know
they're
just
you
know,
there's
a
there's
a
there's
just
going
to
be
a
huge
shortfall
in
terms
of
terms
of
places,
and
so
you
know
we're
already
seeing
that
you
today
is
our
of
our
22
million
enrolled
students
in
higher
education.
Only
about
4%
come
from
outside
the
u.s.
that
compares
with
about
20%
in
the
UK
and
even
higher
in
in
Australia
and,
of
course,
Australia's.
International
education.
Business
is
driven
on
the
basis
of
its
proximity
to
those
large
markets
in
in
Asia,
and
you
know
today,
the
model
is
literally
you
import.
B
The
students
right,
Australia
imports,
the
students,
the
UK
imports,
the
students.
You
know
hundreds
of
thousands
of
them
a
year,
and
you
know
it's
a
huge.
It's
a
huge
business
in
Australia
right
now,
it's
1%
of
their
GDP
is
driven
by
serving
international
students.
So
you
know
fast-forward
to
you
know,
10
years
from
now,
if
we
can
figure
out
how
to
use
technology
to
serve
and
attract
international
students
and
I.
Think
that's
not
going
to
be
entirely
online.
B
Delivered
I
think
will
be
a
blended
solution
in
almost
every
case,
because
in
in
emerging
markets
online
degree
programs
are
viewed
as
synonymous
with
a
traditional
correspondence
or
distance
education
courses
which
connote
low
quality
and
therefore
only
command
a
very
low
price
point.
So
it's
very
difficult
to
to
reach
them
with
a
wholly
online
model,
but
with
a
blended
model
and
with
blended
models
that
are
sort
of
a
purpose
purpose-built
for
those
markets.
B
So
it's
not
just
simply
a
matter
of
taking
your
MBA,
making
it
a
blended
program
and
you
know
putting
it
into
China
or
India.
It's
a
it's,
probably
redeveloping
the
curriculum
to
make
it
relevant
and
probably
doing
it
in
conjunction
with
the
local
university
there
and
maybe
a
dual
degree
program.
Something
like
that.
B
So
it's
a
huge
economic
opportunity
and
it's
one
that
we
just
actually
wrote
a
piece
in
Forbes
where
we
talked
about
the
fact
that
Australia
and
Canada
are
you
know
they
actually
have
a
sort
of
national
strategy
for
how
to
approach
this.
The
u.s.
not
only
doesn't
have
a
strategy
by
requiring
a
couple
years
ago.
The
Obama
administration
requires
state
authorization,
which
meant
that
we
took
a
national
market
and
online
education
and
effectively
balkanized
it
so
any
provider
hoping
to
offer
online
degree.
B
Programs
now
has
to
get
approval
effectively
in
50
states,
although
with
with
lacerum.
That's
that's
now.
You
know
ameliorated
to
some
extent,
but
you
know
so
so
so
not
only
doing
out
of
a
strategy
we're
actually
being
counterproductive
in
that
regard,
it's
important,
I
think,
economically
and
strategically
for
the
u.s.
to
recognize.
This
is
a
huge
opportunity
for
our
colleges,
University
and
in
particular,
as
we
face
unbundling,
which
is
going
to
be
incredibly
disruptive
to
so
many
institutions
being
able
to
enroll
thousands
or
tens
of
thousands
of
international
students
in
our
existing
degree.
B
A
You
want
in
your
description,
you're
saying
you
know
you
US
national
strategy,
but
you
know,
in
terms
of
there
are
people
all
over
the
world
with
expertise
in
all
kinds
of
subjects
who
are
also
great
teachers.
So
do
you
see,
does
this
sort
of
export
opportunity
to
be
centered
around
US
institutions?
Or
do
you
see
the
creation
of
some
sort
of
you
know
transnational
organizations
or
transnational
corporations
that
they
will
be
able
to
do
this
better
yeah.
B
No
I
mean
I
think
as
long
as
we
have
a
bundle,
it's
going
to
matter
where
you
get
the
bundle
from
right,
and
so,
if
you
can
get
the
bundle
from
a
brand
name,
US,
University
or
a
university
that
even
has
the
name
of
an
American
state
and
it's
like
southern
New,
Hampshire
University.
One
reason
they've
done
so
well.
People
think
it's
a
it's
a
state
institution
which
around
the
rest
of
the
world
by
the
way
the
elite
institutions
are
all
state
right.
Insurance,
yeah.
A
B
You
know
I
think
that
I
think
that
that's
the
that
that's
that's
the
focus
for
sure
students
are
going
to
be
drawn
to
institutions.
They
know
it's
interesting.
One
of
the
most
successful
transnational
education
stories
in
the
UK
is
the
University
of
Manchester
right
and
you'd
say
well.
Why
is
that?
Well,
Manchester
United
at
Manchester
City
are
two
of
the
most
recognized
global
football
clubs
know
in
Asia,
and
so
you
know,
Manchester
just
has
a
huge
huge
advantage
in
that
and
I.
Don't
think
many
US
universities
are
thinking
about
that
right
now.
So.
A
You
would
recommend
for
start-up
like
a
plain-out
to
be
partnering
with,
in
terms
of
it
wants
to
go
into
the
overseas
more
outside
the
US
markets.
You'd
say
a
partner
up
with
some
universities
and
state
universities
or
state
colleges.
That's
going
to
be
a
much
better,
that's
going
to
attract
much
more
interest
than
if
you
go
with
some
private
private
colleges,
except.
B
Yeah,
unless
you
have
a
as
a
recognizable
brand
for
sure
I,
definitely
today
keep
in
mind.
The
model
is
very
much
still
anymore.
The
student
model
right
so
we're
seeing
a
huge
growth
amongst
pathway
providers.
You
familiar
with
these
are
companies
that
partner
with
universities
and
recruit
source,
the
students
from
the
agent
and
then
operate
a
parallel
program,
often
on
the
University's
campus,
which
combines
the
English
language
training
and
probably
some
general
academic
preparedness
may
be
some
sort
of
alliteration
to
the
American
University
system
of
living
and
living
in
the
US.
B
And
then,
after
six
to
twelve
months,
the
students
are
guaranteed
progression
to
the
universities
program.
Universities
like
these
programs,
because
it
means
that
they
know
they're
getting
students
who
actually
are
not
only
capable
of
the
the
England
college-level
English
but
capable
of
doing
college-level
work.
Now.
B
The
answer
is
its
it's
through
technology,
and
you
know
certainly
I
mean
we
we're
we're
investors
in
one
institution
which
is
on
lines
called
patent
University
online
self-paced
competency-based,
where
literally
there's
no
barriers
to
scaling
it's
almost
as
easy
to
run
the
institution
with
a
hundred
thousand
students
as
it
is
with
1000
students.
Now
you
know,
I,
don't
think
that
those
kinds
of
programs
are
going
to
be
appealing
in
emerging
markets
anytime
soon.
B
But
you
know
you
can
combine
those
kinds
of
online
experiences
with
you
know
whether
it's
60/40
online
on
ground
or
8020
online
on
ground,
and
if
you
can
partner
with
local
institutions
or
enterprises
to
to
do
the
on
ground
delivery,
you
have
a
very
scalable
model.
So
again,
it's
certainly
not
an
elite.
You
know
US
residential
college
experience,
but
it's
probably
better
than
the
alternative
that
those
students
have
in
their
local
markets
today.