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From YouTube: Built Heritage Sub-Committee - October 21, 2019
Description
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
Welcome
to
our
built
heritage
subcommittee
meeting
for
October
21st.
We
have
regrets
today
from
Vice,
Chair,
Quinn
and
member
Conforti.
Are
there
any
declarations
of
interest
this
morning
I'm?
Seeing
none
confirmation
of
minutes
are
the
minutes
for
the
meeting
of
Tuesday
September
10th
confirmed
confirmed.
Thank
you.
A
A
A
Second,
item
is
application
for
demolition
and
new
construction
at
7377,
giggs
Avenue,
a
property
designated
under
part
5
of
the
Ontario
Heritage
Act
and
located
in
the
Lower
Town
West
Heritage
Conservation
District,
and
we
have
staff
here
to
give
a
quick
overview
of
this
report
behind
it.
Over
to
you.
B
Thank
You
mr.
chair
good
morning.
Everybody,
the
application
before
the
committee
today,
is
an
application
for
demolition
and
new
construction
in
the
Lower
Town
West
Heritage
Conservation
District.
The
application
is
also
subject
to
a
zoning
bylaw
amendment,
which
will
be
considered
by
planning
committee
concurrently
with
this
report
on
October
the
24th.
B
So,
as
I
said,
the
property
is
located
in
the
Lower
Town
West
Heritage
Conservation
District
at
the
corner
of
gieg
and
Powell.
The
HCD
was
designated
in
1995
for
its
importance
as
the
oldest
resin
neighbourhood
in
Ottawa.
It's
significant
for
its
evolution
over
time
and
its
association
with
generations
of
Ottawa's
working-class
people,
both
English
and
French.
B
Immediately,
oh
sorry,
the
property,
the
subject
property
is
here
at
the
corner:
it
is
a
two
storey
flat
roof
three
door
row
and
immediately
across
the
street,
is
a
large
red,
brick
house
with
several
additions
that
has
been
converted
into
a
multi-unit
residential
building
to
the
north.
At
the
end
of
parallel,
you
can
see
the
brew
year,
hospital.
B
B
The
row
house
was
reviewed
and
evaluated
during
the
Lower
Town
West
Heritage
Conservation
District
study
and
is
a
category
4
building
in
the
Heritage
District,
meaning
that
it
has
limited
heritage
value.
Despite
its
age,
the
building
has
been
heavily
altered
over
time
and
retains
little
of
its
original
character.
B
The
Lower
Town
West
HCD
plan
has
guidelines
related
to
demolition
that
discourage
demolition
of
buildings
of
heritage
significance.
Further,
they
state
the
buildings
of
little
significance
can
be
considered
for
demolition,
where
an
appropriate
replacement
building
is
proposed,
as
this
building
is
of
little
significance
in
the
HCD
the
end,
the
end
staff
believes
the
proposed
building
is
appropriate
to
the
HCD.
We
have
no
objections
to
the
proposed
demolition.
B
The
proposed
development
is
a
7
unit,
townhouse
row
with
one
unit
facing
on
to
Gig
and
the
remaining
six
fronting
on
to
peril.
The
setback
is
similar
to
other
buildings
on
both
gieg
Pera.
You
will
see
here.
This
is
the
adjacent
building
on
gig.
You
can
see
this.
The
building
is
set
back
slightly
further
than
the
building
on
gig,
and
then
this
is
the
adjacent
building
that
fronts
on
to
st.
Andrew
Street
and
it's
it
back
is
similar
to
these.
B
B
The
top
elevation
is
the
gig
elevation.
The
bottom
elevation
is
the
parallel
there's
a
corner
Tower
feature
at
gegen
Perot,
echoing
other
corner
buildings
in
the
district
there's
a
varied
material
palette,
including
brick,
stone,
stucco,
metal,
wood
panels,
sorry
metal
panels,
wood
and
purging,
and
there
is
a
proposed
rooftop
terrace
for
one
of
the
units
with
two
access
points.
One
is
an
elevator
to
provide
barrier
free
access
and
the
other
is
a
stair.
So
you
can
see
these
here.
B
B
Lowertown
west
HCD
has
guidelines
regarding
infill
buildings
that
require
new
buildings
to
respect
the
scale,
setbacks,
architectural
design
and
materials
of
neighboring
buildings.
The
proposed
building
as
a
contemporary
interpretation
of
the
flat
roof
doubles
and
row
houses
found
throughout
the
neighborhood
in
terms
of
scale
Lower
Town
West
is
characterized
by
one
and
a
half
to
three
story:
building
heights,
with
both
historic
and
more
recent
buildings
in
the
HCD
that
are
taller
than
this
height.
B
The
area
adjacent
to
the
subject
property
as
I
showed
in
the
photos
earlier,
is
consistent
with
this,
with
Heights,
ranging
from
approximately
to
two
and
a
half
to
three
stories.
This
northeastern
section
of
the
HCD
is
also
defined
in
part
by
the
Basilica
and
the
rear
hospital,
both
of
which
are
in
the
vicinity
of
the
subject
site
and
are
significant,
nineteenth-century
historic
buildings
that
are
taller
and
larger
than
most
buildings
in
the
neighbor
from
a
scale
perspective
at
three
stories
with
the
rooftop
projection.
B
B
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
the
Lower
Town
West
HCD
has
streets
a
streetscape
guidelines
regarding
infill
that
require
that
the
front
yard
setback
be
established
by
neighboring
historic
buildings.
The
proposed
building
respects
the
setback
of
the
neighboring
buildings
at
seventy
nine
gig
and
seventy
two
st.
Andrew
Street.
It
has
set
slightly
further
back
than
its
neighbors
and
includes
a
landscape
yard
on
both
gig
and
peril.
B
The
HCD
also
requires
that
in
field
buildings
respect
the
architectural
design
and
materials
of
neighboring
buildings.
The
HDD
study
notes
that
the
architectural
character
of
Lowertown
consists
of
a
rich
collection
of
buildings
and
Street
scapes
that
are
that
are
heterogeneous,
as
opposed
to
homogeneous.
The
richness
of
the
heritage
character
of
the
HCD
is
derived
from
the
variety
of
buildings,
the
variety
of
scale,
the
variety
of
form
and
the
variety
of
materials.
B
Overall
staff
believed
that
the
proposed
building
fits
well
with
the
overall
Architectural
variety
of
the
HCD.
Its
form
and
massing
reflect
the
vernacular
flat-roofed
row
houses
found
throughout
the
HCD,
and
it
incorporates
design
elements
that
are
clearly
inspired
by
nearby
buildings,
including
porches,
the
corner
element
and
the
cornice.
B
These
photos
show
some
examples
of
the
type
of
building
that
I'm,
referring
to
when
I
talk
about
the
condition
related
to
the
cornice.
There's
a
strong
Jewish
tradition
of
flat
roof
row,
houses
and
semies
in
Lower
Town,
and
these
buildings
are
typically
characterized
by
strong
straight
cornice
staff
believe
that
refining
the
cornice
line
along
the
parallel
elevation
would
make
the
proposed
building
more
compatible
with
the
HCD.
B
B
A
C
Thank
You
mr.
chairman
I'll,
be
very
brief.
You
have
a
copy
of
our
of
our
brief
on
it.
I
guess
we
we
do
support
the
recommendations
quite
strongly
and
we're
we're
very
pleased
to
see
something
like
this
come
along
and
we've
had
a
lot
of
time
to
comment
on
this
I
think
they
went
back
to
early
summer
when
we
got
the
advance
notice
of
it
and
we
were
able
to
comment
on
it
prior
to
the
recommendations
coming
from
staff.
C
A
A
C
So
mr.
chairman,
if
I
may
first
just
provide
some
introductory
comments,
we're
here,
obviously
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
and
strongly
support
the
recommendations
that
are
before
you
from
staff
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
to
members
of
this
committee.
You
don't
have
the
benefit
of
some
of
the
other
comments
that
were
provided
on
this
application
in
response
to
the
site
plan
application.
C
So
there's
a
report
on
the
planning
committee
agenda
for
Thursday,
including
recommendation
to
approve
the
site
plan
for
this
project
and
I
just
wanted
to
highlight
for
you
some
comments
that
are
provided
in
that
report,
which
have
not
been
provided
to
you,
because
they
were
comments
in
response
to
the
site
plan
circulation
and
not
the
Heritage
permit
application.
But
some
of
the
comments
are
as
follows:
one
we
support
this
project.
It
is
an
exciting
start
to
revitalizing
Lowertown
to
the
three-story.
Seven
unit
massing
is
a
welcome
addition
to
the
neighborhood.
C
C
Five,
the
style
of
architecture
is
appropriate
for
the
neighborhood,
as
it
does
not
seek
to
replicate
historic
buildings
or
jarringly
contrast
with
the
historic
buildings,
I'm
losing
counts,
I
think
I'm
up
to
six
wrapping
the
development
around
the
corner
of
panel
and
geek
Avenue
is
nice
and
lastly,
the
property
has
been
in
disrepair
for
some
time
and
the
redevelopment
is
welcome.
News.
Thoughtful
design
will
enhance
the
neighborhood.
C
Mr.
chairman,
members
of
the
committee,
I
think
you've
got
strong
support
for
this
application
from
staff
you've
just
heard
from
heritage
Ottawa
who
indicate
that
they
see
this
project
as
a
positive
contribution
to
the
Lowertown
Heritage
Conservation
District
I
would
subject
to
additional
comments
that
mr.
Stewart
will
make
with
as
our
heritage
consultant.
It
strongly
recommended
the
committee's
support
the
staff
recommendation
and
approve
the
application
subject
to
the
conditions
as
set
out
in
the
staff
report.
Thank
you
very
much.
I.
D
Really
don't
have
a
lot
more
new
information
to
add,
but
I
thought
the
one
thing
that
I
was
sort
of
intrigued
with
when
working
with
the
the
architect
is
that
Jacques
was
originally
a
chairman
of
the
original
Lac
acts
in
this
area
and
probably
25
years
ago.
But
in
fact
he
in
the
process
of
developing
the
design.
D
He
has
undergone
a
number
of
iterations,
including
reducing
the
number
of
units
introducing
larger
porches
reduction
of
the
material
palette,
with
accents
at
the
windows
and
doors
and
cornice
line.
The
facade
materials
are
set
on
a
foundation
and
do
not
extend
below
the
ground
level
floor
level.
The
units
are
set
on
a
base
foundation
that
is
continuous
and
provides
a
prominent
visual
feature
that
is
common
to
residences
in
the
area.
The
design
and
material
vocabulary
varies
between
groupings
of
units
indicating
property
lines,
as
illustrated
on
the
site
plan
and
the
elevations.
D
Where
possible,
there
are
canopies
and
porches
at
fund
entrances
overlooking
the
street.
A
full
expression
was
not
possible
due
to
the
setback
requirements
of
hydro.
The
fenestration
pattern
is
broken
up
to
provide
some
visual
variety
between
Bank
townhouse
units
and
the
ground-floor
windows
along
Avenue,
where
increased
and
set
lower
as
they
do
on
the
facades.
I.
Think
what
you?
D
What
you
see
here
today
is,
in
fact,
Jacques
he's
gone
through
23
iterations
of
this
design
in
order
to
come
up
with
something
that
he
was
comfortable
with,
and
the
the
recommendations
to
you
for
to
have
a
look
at
the
cornice
and
to
have
a
look
at
the
palette
are
more
than
reasonable
and
I
think
we're
prepared
to
do
work
within
those
requirements.
Thank
you.
Okay.
E
Thank
You
mr.
chair
and
good
morning,
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I'm
clear
that
recommendation
to
a
and
B
direct
staff
to
work
with
you
and
it
says
the
applicant
to
simplify
refine
the
material
palette
for
the
building
and
to
be
the
applicant
reconfigures.
The
cornice
line
of
the
building
to
better
reflect
the
straight
cornice
lines
that
characterize
the
flat
roof
buildings.
Are
you
in
agreement
with
these
recommendations?
We've.
E
F
Yes
times
the
rock
intense
questioned
was
the
same
as
buying
a
few
agreed
with
the
stack
recommendation.
I
noticed
that
in
the
current
design
number
23,
you
probably
missed
some
materials
in
the
in
the
exterior
design
and
simplifying
and
reducing
the
number
might
be
okay,
you
can,
the
architect
can
use
them
and
another
project.
We.
G
Like
my
colleagues
here,
I'm
impressed
at
the
number
of
iterations,
this
has
gone
through.
I
had
a
couple
of
smaller
questions
that
were
brought
up
by
the
Lower
Town,
Community,
Association
and
actually
in
the
cultural
heritage.
In
fact,
statement
in
the
CH
is
it's
suggested
that
photography
during
deconstruction
may
be
used
to
document
the
material
types
and
construction
methods
in
case
there's
anything
of
the
I
believe
it
was
1878.
Building
that
may
be
of
interest
to
the
community
is
that
is
that
a
mitigation
measure
that's
still
being
looked
at
or
it's.
D
G
D
A
H
Sorry
about
that
before
I
have
questions
before
I
share
questions
to
staff.
I
just
want
to
inform
committee
as
to
where
I'm
at
and
where
what
I've
heard
from
my
community
relating
to
this
application
so
obviously
generally
everyone's
very
happy
to
see
us
the
site
being
activated
and
and
the
improvements.
H
We
did
get
very
positive
comments
relating
to
the
fact
that
there's
no
garage,
as
specifically
you're
in
the
heart
of
you're,
right
on
the
edge
of
the
bio
market,
very
accessible
to
to
fresh,
fresh
food
and
you're
so
close
to
the
LRT.
So
people
are
favorable
to
that.
At
the
same
time,
there's
two
issues
that
arose
from
that.
If,
if
garages
were
provided,
the
appropriate
garbage
and
recycling
locations
would
be
in
place
because
there
is
no
such
locations.
H
I
will
be
going
to
planning
committee
on
Thursday
to
try
and
bring
more
certainty
to
the
site
plan
relating
to
recycling
and
garbage
locations.
And
that's
often
a
disconnect
I
find
with
the
Planning
Department
is
that
they
don't
use
a
fullness
of
their
authority
and
then
we
spent
$300
every
three
one.
H
One
call
to
send
by
law
to
try
to
resolve
the
issues
afterwards,
so
I'll
try
to
I'll
try
to
work
with
the
applicant
and,
if
not
bring
a
motion
on
Thursday,
specifically
for
location
of
garbages,
so
that
it's
not
an
issue
into
the
community,
but
specifically
for
your
authority
today.
My
concern
has
been
relating
to
the
projections
so
as
you've
seen,
it
is
a
proposed
rooftop
patio.
On
the
north
side,
it's
on
the
screen
now
on
the
north
side
of
the
property.
H
I,
don't
believe
it
to
be
typical
of
the
the
neighborhood
when
I
when
I
asked
planning
staff
specifically,
they
said
that
the
other
projection,
that's
nearby,
is
the
Berea
Hospital
in
a
very
different
use
in
an
institutional
use.
So
I
continue
to
be
worried
about
the
projection
and
what
that
would
mean
in
terms
of
the
Heritage
Conservation
District.
So
I
would,
with
your
indulgence
mr.
H
There's
nothing
that
stops
it
for
us
now
and
the
applicant
does
not
appear
to
be
open
to
reconsidering
those
projection
and
planning
staff.
Don't
have
don't
have
anything
to
that
would
prevent
it.
So
won't
want
to
hear
from
staff
specifically
for
that
for
the
record
and
then
would
move
that
as
part
of
the
HC
DS.
The
reviews
of
both
the
by
would
one
in
the
Lowertown
one
that
we
consider
the
impact
of
adding
such
such
element
to
the
H
CDs.
H
B
You,
mr.
chair,
we
did
consider
the
impact
of
the
rooftop
projection
as
part
of
this
application,
not
specifically
it
as
a
rooftop
projection,
but
the
sort
of
cumulative
impact
of
the
additional
height
on
the
district
and
in
looking
at
the
district
one.
There
are
no
guidelines
within
the
district
plan
that
prevent
this,
but
to
the
character
of
Lowertown,
as
I
mentioned,
is
very
mixed,
very
varied
in
terms
of
heights
and
scale
and
uses
and
the
way
in
which
rear
yards
were
used
and
rooftops
were
used
and
and
so
in.
B
In
our
opinion,
at
this
stage
there
is
no
negative
impact
of
these
proposed
rooftop
projections
on
the
character
and
the
Heritage
value
of
the
Lower
Town
West
HCD.
That
being
said,
we
recognize
the
councillors
concerns
and
we
would
be
happy
to
consider
this
going
forward
as
we
study
and
review
the
Lower
Town
West
Heritage
Conservation
District
plan
in
the
next
couple
of
years.
Okay,.
A
I
B
Through
you,
mr.
chair,
yes,
they
are.
We
have
specific
guidelines
related
to
them
in
the
Rockland
Park
Heritage
Conservation
District
plan
their
new
plan.
I
would
say
it's
slightly
different
context
in
that
there's
not
very
many
flat
roof
buildings
in.
If
so,
they
have
more
of
an
impact,
but
we
would
have
to
consider
it
as
part
of
an
overall
study.
Okay,.
H
Councilor
flurry
so
I
just
want
to
ask
legal
staff.
What
because
I
like
is.
Are
we
providing
this
direction
as
part
of
the
minutes
of
this
item
like
what's
the
what's
the
appropriate
format,
to
ensure
that
the
direction
I
respect
that
staffer
are
in
favor,
but
just
for
for
records
sake?
What
is
the
appropriate
legislative
like?
Where
do
we
land
this?
So
we
have
a
direction
to
staff.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
it
dulls
on
record.
J
A
H
Just
as
a
wrap-up
to
this,
for
me,
it's
new.
It's
it's
great
to
see
new
buildings,
it's
too
bad
that
we
couldn't
get
the
applique
the
applicant
to
consider
that
it's
you
don't
need
to
have
everything
in
every
tool
like
there's,
impacts
of
this
projection.
It's
in
my
mind,
not
typical
outside
of
the
institution
of
the
hospital
to
have.
Projections
in
this
area
will
correct
it
through
HCD.
H
Over
time
that
said,
I
did
have
neighbors
contact
us
as
part
of
this
application
who
wanted
to
add,
grab
existing
heritage
buildings
and
wanted
to
have
add
a
third
floor
patio
and
were
denied
by
the
Planning
Department
in
the
I'm
talking
to
three
very,
very
nearby
neighbors.
So
I
find
it
odd
that
in
one
way
we
on
an
existing
property,
we
would
create
those
limits.
I
B
F
So
my
only
contribution
to
questions
and
staff
is
about
the
quality
of
language
and
meaning
I.
Think
the
use
of
the
term
projection
is
a
technical
word
that
is
lost
on
the
public
and
I
think
that,
if
we're
talking
about
small
tent
houses
that
alter
the
visual
profile
of
the
district,
that's
one
issue,
but
this
I
think
the
meaning.
The
intent
of
this
discussion
is
about
the
use
of
flat
roofs
as
terraces
with
implications
on
privacy.
F
B
Sorry
I
thought
that
was
a
comment.
I
would
say
we
don't
regulate
the
use
of
rooftops
through
the
Heritage
Act.
So
from
my
perspective,
when
we
assess
this
application,
it
was
about
the
visual
impact
of
the
physical
portion
of
the
building
that
is
higher
than
the
rest
and
not
the
use
of
it
as
a
rooftop
terrace.
Just.
A
Carried
thank
you,
and
this
will
be
considered
from
a
different
perspective,
a
planning
committee
on
Thursday,
okay.
The
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
creation
of
a
new
heritage
tax
rebate
program
for
building
restoration
and
the
2020
user
fee
schedule
for
heritage
application
fees.
We
do
have
staff
here
to
give
us
a
overview
of
the
report
and
I.
Don't
think
we
have
any
speakers
signed
up,
but
there
is
a
letter
on
file
from
Heritage
Ottawa
in
support
of
the
report
recommendations
over
to
you,
okay,.
K
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
This
report
was
actually
written
by
Ashley
Catawba
she's,
not
here
she's,
traveling
Europe
right
now,
so
I'm
gonna
give
the
presentation.
This
is
a
good
news
heritage
report.
The
proposals
to
see
today,
floette
of
the
mayor's
Task
Force
on
heritage
and
they're,
designed
to
strengthen
heritage
in
Ottawa
generally
before
we
get
into
the
proposal.
I
think
we're
going
to
do
a
quick
review
of
the
existing
financial
incentives.
So
we
don't
confuse
the
two
of
them.
K
We
have
an
existing
matching
grant
program
that
was
increased
this
past
year
up
to
three
hundred
thousand
dollars
from
one
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars,
and
it
was
our
most
successful
year
ever
in
terms
the
number
of
applications
that
we
received
in
terms
the
types
of
work
that
this
program
offers.
If
you
take
a
look
at
the
screen,
you
can
see
its
majority
of
the
MuRF
of
things
like
porches
and
windows
and
repointing,
or
the
vast
majority
of
our
application,
so
there's
small
scale
and
tend
to
be
focused
on
residential
building
types.
K
This
is
actually
an
example
of
three
images
that
received
restoration
grants
under
the
existing
program
from
cedar.
Shake
replacement
to
port
restoration
to
window
restoration.
It's
very
important
for
these.
These
buildings
to
you
know
renovate
themselves
and
restore
themselves
back
to
the
original,
and
that's
what
the
program's
designed
for
in
terms
of
where
these
grants
currently
are
going
today.
It's
no
surprise
that
there's
a
number
of
them
all
across
boards.
K
The
number
of
wards
in
the
city
where
designate
properties
exist,
but
the
majority
are
focused
in
Ward's,
12,
13,
14
or
the
vast
majority
housing
stock
exists
parish
buildings.
So
the
new
new
CIP
for
heritage
CFP
is
a
Community
Improvement
Plan
and
the
intent
of
this
is
to
augment
the
existing
program.
It's
not
to
change
the
existing
program
and
it's
really
targeted
to
larger
heritage
structures
such
as
institutional,
commercial
and
multi-unit
residential
buildings.
K
Think
of
two
three
four
storey
buildings,
and
particularly
we're
trying
to
offset
that
at
costs
of
heritage,
restoration
of
a
major
project,
so
building
has
been
restored
to
a
new
use
or
a
building.
That's
been
incorporated
into
a
larger
redevelopment
project,
so
here's
some
visual
examples
of
what
we're
talking
about.
So
it
could
be
vacant
buildings
there's
these
are
probably
familiar
to
you.
K
So
the
proposal
is
to
create
a
community
improvement
plan
under
the
Planning
Act
to
apply
to
heritage
buildings.
This
type
of
plan
is
well
known
to
the
city.
We
have
one
for
brownfields
today
and
we
also
have
it
for
certain
areas
that
we're
targeting
reinvestment
across
the
city,
but
this
will
be
specific
just
for
heritage.
If
you
think
of
the
brownfields
plan,
you
can
think
of
right.
Now,
development
is
encouraged
to
go
there.
We
give
the
money
to
clean
up
the
soil
to
allow
development
occur
because
the
soil
cleanup
is
very
expensive.
K
The
thinking
behind
this
is
fairly
simple
and
it's
based
in
a
project
once
complete
being
reassessed
at
a
higher
assessed
value
and
we're
taxes
that
were
existing
before
are
now
substantially
increased
because
of
the
redevelopment
the
overall
development
occurred,
and
so
some
of
those
costs
me
captured
and
put
back
into
the
Heritage
I'm
gonna
get
to
an
example.
In
a
couple
seconds.
The
program
is
intended
to
be
limited
to
$500,000
per
year,
and
also
any
individual
project
had
exceed
$500,000.
K
We've
run
this
by
a
number
of
heritage
professionals
within
a
city
also
the
mayor's
Task
Force
and
the
ministry
and
we're
getting
positive
results.
Some
performance
and
some
individuals
would
prefer
a
municipal
tax
break
over
a
program
like
this,
but
it's
fair
to
say
that
this
was
received
with
positive
feedback.
K
So
here's
that
example
I'm
talking
about
it's
a
lot
of
numbers
before
you,
but
perhaps
this
is
actually
really
a
legitimate
priced
example
from
a
heritage
architect,
and
so
in
this
case
it's
we're
in
a
vacant.
Building
is
being
restored
and
expanded
and
the
cost
is
overall.
Project
is
16
million.
The
heritage
component
is
1.8
million.
So
there's
a
lot
of
money.
That's
put
into
that.
So
under
this
program,
they'd
be
eligible
for
a
half
billion
dollars
in
rebate
and
the
way
it
works
is,
if
you
take
a
look
at
the
the
slide.
K
The
orange
line
at
the
bottom
is
really
the
tax
is
paid
by
that
current
vacant
under
your
looser
sized
building
right
now
about
$15,000
a
year
and
the
line
at
the
top
is
really
what
the
new
taxes
would
be
once
it's
restored
and
occupied
and
built.
So
it's
kind
of
the
I'm
not
sure
if
you
can
see
here
so
it's
this
chunk
of
area
here
that
helps
to
fund
this
program.
So
it's
to
use
some
of
that
increase
in
taxes
and
put
it
towards
this
program
for
a
grant.
K
K
So
it
can
ask
questions,
answer
questions
without
a
sec,
so
the
other
aspect
of
today's
report
is
an
increase
in
a
creation
of
some
heritage
fees
and
so
part
of
this
report
we're
looking
to
salvage
fees
for
certain
types
of
heritage
applications,
not
all
demolition
of
our
designated
building
new
construction
for
certain
types
of
buildings,
as
well
as
additions
for
certain
types
of
buildings.
The
fees
would
be
ten
thousand
five
thousand
two
thousand
respectively.
K
What
we
want
to
do
with
these
fees
is
to
actually
fund
a
new
FTE,
so
a
new
heritage
planner
would
be
funded
out
of
these
fees
directly.
So
it's
not
like
the
fees
go
into
the
greater
city
coffers.
It
goes
specifically
to
the
Heritage
Program
and
that's
the
intent,
don't
break
your
recommendation
so
really
what
we're
recommending
here?
K
A
L
Thank
You
chair
Thank,
You
staff
for
the
report.
It's
it's
encouraging.
We
have
far
too
many
vacant
heritage
buildings,
some
of
them
much
more
egregious
than
others.
So
you
probably
know
what
I'm
going
with
this
just
before
I
get
to
what
I
think
is
the
most
egregious
the
Heritage
I
just
want
to
I
just
want
to
confirm.
So
they,
when
you
say
this,
augments
the
Heritage
Grant
Program
for
building
restoration,
the
25,000
max.
It
means
you
can
add
on
to
that.
So
you
could
apply
for
both.
Is
that
correct?
No.
K
L
Okay
and
obviously
the
the
empty
building
that
well
there's
probably
about
three
or
four
that
are
really
standout
in
the
city
and
are
actually
quite
an
embarrassment
really
for
for
the
entire
city,
but
the
one
in
my
ward,
obviously
is
Somerset.
House
and
I
actually
have
a
meeting
this
week,
I
believe
with
staff
looking
at
what
we
can
do
to
actually,
if
not
get
some
action
on
this
building
immediately
then
to
to
take
more
direct
action
with
the
owner.
When
you,
when
you
were
considering
this
this
plan,
did
you
talk
to
any
of
the
owners?
L
Did
you
have
a
conversation
say
with
the
owner
of
Somerset
house?
Do
you
know
if
this
is
something
that
would
compel
the
owner
to
to
you
know
fix
up
I
mean
he
would
actually,
this
Somerset
House
would
fall
into
all
three
I
believe
you
know,
vacant
building
that
would
have
to
probably
be
further
development
to
it.
An
adaptive,
reuse,
I.
L
K
Figure,
mr.
chair,
we
did
not
have
a
specific
conversation
with
the
owner
of
Somerset
house,
so
I
can't
speak
for
that,
certainly
that
that
development
scenario
would
qualify
for
the
CIP
if
it
was
in
effect,
but
whether
it
makes
a
difference
for
him
to
to
save
and
restore
that's
a
personal
question
that
I
can
answer.
Do.
K
Yeah
we
did,
we
did
best
practices,
research
for
a
number
of
mis
pollos
across
Ontario,
and
it's
probably
fair
to
say
that
the
vast
majority
of
them
actually
focused
on
a
different
program
on
the
Municipal
Act
program,
where
you
can
get
up
to
forty
percent
of
your
tax
back,
be
matched
through
the
province
for
the
education
fees
as
well,
and
so
a
lot
of
them
focused
on
that
program.
Very
few
focused
on
the
CIP.
K
There
was
one
or
two
that
have
good
success
with
this
type
of
program,
but
this
was
really
the
reason
we
went
to
this.
One
was
really
because
of
the
types
of
buildings
and
issues
that
we
were
dealing
with
under
the
mayor's
task
force,
and
we
think
it's
the
most
appropriate
program
to
help
offset
those
costs
for
that
type
of
development.
That's
not
saying
a
municipal
Act
program
the
future
couldn't
occur,
but
for
right.
L
L
And
just
last
question
and
again
I'm
being
a
bit
myopic
and
tort
towards
Somerset
Ward,
but
3:30
Gilmore,
the
old
school
board,
building
which
I'm
witnessing
deteriorating
I'm,
hoping
that
it's
on
the
task
force
watchlist
but
we're
seeing
the
you
know.
We've
got
graffiti
on
it.
Windows
have
been
boarded
up,
the
the
chimney
is
starting
to
deteriorate
and
I
see
it
going
into
the
same
type
of
disrepair.
B
L
Okay
I
mean
I,
appreciate
that
chair
and,
but
you
know,
the
Somerset
house
has
been
on
the
mayor's
task.
Force,
watch
and
I
believe
that
it's
deteriorated
much
further
since
then,
so
I
just
want
to
I
just
want
to.
You
know,
put
it
on
the
public
record
that
3:30
Gilmore
is
another
important
heritage.
L
Building
it's
empty
it's
at
empty
for
years,
and
I
am
quite
concerned
that
it's
that
it's
being
treated
much
the
same
as
Somerset
House,
so
I
would
you
know
I
would
like
to
get
some
assurance
that
that's
not
the
case
that
it
is
fully
winterized
that
the
bricks
are
not
deteriorating
the
way
they
are
for
Somerset
House.
We
know
that
the
owner
is
trying
to
argue
that
the
bricks
need
to
actually
can't
even
be
replaced,
which
I
don't
believe,
but
but
I
know
that
it
has.
L
F
Yes,
I
very
much
welcome
the
Community
Improvement
Plan
program
and
the
granting
that
will
be
involved
in
that
betting.
It's
been
a
long
time
coming
and
it's
very
gratifying
to
find
it
here
at
the
floor.
The
builders
opportunity
today
I
had
one
question
which
had
to
do
with
the
fees
that
would
now
be
charged
for
demolition
and
new
construction
and
alterations.
I
think
that
we
understand
that
it's
important
to
be
able
to
self-finance
the
additional
staff
member
that
would
be
involved
in
CIP
and
other
activities.
A
A
K
Correct
the
way
the
program
would
work
is
that
it
would
be
established
in
January
basically,
and
then
we
actually
budgets
don't
get
and
required
until
such
time
as
an
applications
been
submitted,
the
development
actually
takes
place
and
is
reassessed.
So
it
could
be
two
years
to
construct
and
renovate
a
building,
so
it
would
be
at
minimum
two
years,
possibly
three
years
from
January.
Ok,.
A
And
can
you
just
give
us
a
bit
of
a
bit
of
an
overview
of
the
process,
so
there'll
be
some
kind
of
application
process
where
property
owners
can
send
in
a
request
to
be
eligible,
I
assume,
there's
some
delegated
authority
to
staff
here,
where
you're
looking
at
and
doing
a
review
once
you've
decided,
which
projects
make
the
cut?
What
happens
next?
Does
this
committee
review
it?
Is
it
another
committee
of
the
city
or
how
does
that
process
happen?
It.
A
First
of
all,
the
mayor's
Task
Force
heritage
task
force
came
up
a
little
bit
earlier
in
the
conversation
we
did
meet
last
week
with
that
group
and
as
part
of
that
meeting,
we
have
an
overview
of
all
of
the
at-risk
heritage,
properties
and
I
think
you
know
from
quarter
to
quarter
as
we
have
that
meeting.
Usually
things
moving
from
high
risks,
a
medium
risks
and
things
are
meeting
moving
from
medium
risks
to
low
risk
and
there's
always
one
or
two
properties
that
come
off
of
that
list.
So
we're
going
in
the
right
direction.
A
But
there
are
a
number
of
big
problem
buildings,
larger
problems.
It
just
seemed
to
linger
on
that
list
and
I
hope
that
a
program
like
this
gives
us
more
options
to
incentivize
the
property
owners.
I
know
we're
getting
more
aggressive
in
the
enforcement
and
using
the
limited
tools
we
have
to
enforce
the
bylaws
and
you
know
enforce
the
powers
that
we
have
under
the
Heritage
Act.
But
this
is
another
incentive
that
we
can
offer
as
well
and
I
hope
that
we
see
more
of
the
at-risk
buildings.
Move
off.
A
I
was
also
glad
to
see
that,
under
the
criteria
that
you're
using
you've
called
it
specifically
housing
and
housing,
affordability
I
think
it's
an
important
criteria.
You
know
for
we're
looking
at
a
serious
issue
in
our
city
around
housing.
If
there's
projects
that
can
help
them
can
make
that
contribution
as
a
public,
good
I
think
that's
a
positive
as
well
and
yeah.
I,
remember
back
in
2015,
actually
attending
a
lecture
from
dr.
A
Bruce
Ellie
and
her
Carleton
University
Heritage
Ottawa
hosted
it
and
he
was
giving
us
an
overview
of
different
programs
of
municipalities
across
the
country
and
what
they're
doing
to
incentivize
heritage
property
owners
and
at
that
time
Ottawa
was
clearly
in
the
back
part
of
that
pack
and
I.
Think
programs
like
this
helped
move
us
up
into
the
the
leaders
so
I'm
pleased
to
see
the
work
that
staff
have
done
on
this
and
I
appreciate
your
work
in
the
recommendations
in
front
of
us.
Thank
you
are
the
report
recommendations
carried
carried?
Thank
you.
A
We
were
going
to
receive
a
report
on
the
property
at
nine
ten
March
road
known
as
Susan's
house,
and
this
was
initially
going
to
be
a
report
recommending
designation
of
property.
Unfortunately,
over
the
weekend
the
building
was
demolished,
so
we
are
going
to
receive
a
verbal
report
and
remember:
Podolski
has
a
motion.
F
Thank
you
I'm
pleased
to
move
that
the
result
that
the
built
heritage
subcommittee
suspend
the
rules
of
procedure
to
receive
and
all
up
date
from
staff
with
respect
to
the
scissors
house,
9:10
marked
Road,
and
to
dispense
with
the
requirements
for
staff
to
provide
any
further
written
report
on
this
update,
so
that
the
committee
may
receive
timely
information
on
this
matter.
There's.
B
Thank
You
mr.
chair
I'll
go
back
a
little
bit
in
time
before
the
last
few
days,
just
to
give
a
little
bit
more
background,
so
the
property
at
910
March
Road,
was
identified
on
this
former
City
of
Canada's
heritage
reference
lists
as
a
building
of
interest
at
the
time
of
amalgamation
in
2001,
it
would
have
been
added
to
the
city
of
Ottawa's
heritage
reference
list,
as
all
the
lists
from
the
former
municipalities
were
combined,
so
it
has
been
listed
as
a
building
of
interest
for
some
time.
B
In
the
spring
of
this
year,
it
was
identified
as
part
of
the
heritage
inventory
project
as
a
property
to
be
added
to
the
city's
Heritage
Register
due
to
the
spring
flooding.
All
the
properties
that
were
located
in
Ward
5
were
deferred
to
the
fall.
So
there
were.
This
building
was
to
be
added
to
the
register.
In
November
of
this
year,
we
received
an
application
to
demolish
under
the
building
code
act
in
September.
B
A
M
M
We
were
only
designating
the
house
and
the
modest
front
yard,
but
there
was
no
interest
in
in
discussing
that
option
so
up
until
this
weekend.
Certainly
the
conversations
were
not
leading
to
any
positive
outcome,
which
is
why
we
brought
for
the
designation
on
an
urgent
basis
using
the
authority.
We
have
an
official
plan
for
such
extenuating
circumstances.
J
E
The
heritage
staff
are
consulted
as
part
of
the
circulation
and
they
indicated
that
this
property
would
be
recommended
to
be
added
and
it
was
deferred
only
because
of
a
weather
event
this
year,
so
am
I
correct
in
saying
this
would
have
been
before
the
subcommittee's
attention
earlier
this
calendar
year
had
there
not
been
flooding
flooding
issue.
Yes,.
J
Mr.
chair,
but
it
was
not
before
this
committee
and
had
not
been
issued
a
notice
of
intent
to
designate
it's.
Therefore,
it
was
not
applicable
law
for
the
chief
building
official
to
act
independent.
Although
comments
had
been
received
by
staff,
there
was
a
lawful
process
followed
here
with
respect
to
the
issuance
of
the
demolition
permit
under
the
Building
Code
Act.
E
It
just
seems
that
there
needs
to
be
greater
teeth
if
we
know
this
property
is
coming
and
already
has
some
history
with
the
former
City
of
Ottawa
or
sorry
on
on
the
new
city
of
Ottawa's
Heritage
reference
list.
Since
2001
and
I
appreciate
the
information
it's
just
disappointing.
I
certainly
recognized
the
historical
significance
of
some
of
these
buildings
in
the
old
March
Township,
and
some
of
the
great
efforts
with
other
buildings,
particularly
when
March
Road
was
widened
to
save
and
preserve.
J
J
L
J
L
I
may
I
get
requests
for
a
demolition
regularly,
not
frequently,
but
regularly
and
often
what
I
do
is
I
I,
don't
hold
it
up
on
purpose,
but
I
certainly
hold
it
up
until
I
understand
what
is
going
to
be
rip.
It's
going
to
be
replaced
with
so
I'll
give
you
an
example:
I'll
just
pull
one
out
of
my
hat
here:
Norman
Street
the
developer
owned
five
or
six
homes.
They
were,
you
know,
ready
to
come
down,
but
and
they
had
an
application.
I
had
been
approved
for.
L
High-Rise,
but
before
they
took
down
those
homes,
I
met
with
them.
I
met
with
the
community.
We
said
no,
not
until
we
have
a
plan
in
place.
That
shows
what
is
going
to
replace
it,
so
they
weren't
ready
to
build
right
away.
So
we
worked
with
them
to
ensure
that
there
was
going
to
be.
You
know
some
soft
landscaping
that
nothing
there
would
be
no
parking
in
the
you
know
on
the
site,
a
couple
benches,
so
these
sorts
of
things
take
some
time
and
I.
L
Certainly
in
this
case
wasn't
doing
it
just
to
hold
up
the
process,
but
I
was
certainly
doing
it
to
ensure
that
we
had
a
plan
going
forward.
So
I
just
you
know
wonder
why
something
like
that
couldn't
have
been
applied
in
in
this
case
and
I'm
I
haven't
been
involved
in
the
whole
process,
so
I'm
asking
that
honestly
I'm
not.
N
That's
it's
already
been
noted,
it's
a
it's,
there's
no
opportunity
or
no
ability
for
the
chief
building
official
to
withhold
the
issuance
of
the
permit
unless
the
technical
requirements
of
the
entire
Building
Code
are
met
and
all
applicable
law.
There
are
actually
seven
criteria
they're
in
play.
But
having
said
that,
with
respect
to
applicable
law,
the
example
that
you've
provided
brings
up
another
applicable
law
and
that
is
demonstra
control,
so
in
that
case
the
application
was
not
in
a
position
to
issue
because
of
demolition
control.
L
And
yet
we
couldn't
say
that,
because
it
didn't
have
designation
it
just
anyway
I'm
I'm
flabbergasted
that
this
happened.
I
think
that
well,
obviously
it
was
done
purposely
and
it
does
show
you
the
need
for
at
least
a
registry,
so
I
take
it
that
this
property
was
not
on
a
registry
anywhere.
It
didn't
have
that
six-month.
L
Wait
time
applied
to
it
yeah,
so
it
does
show
the
the
need
for
a
heritage
registry
for
buildings
that
are,
you
know,
could,
in
the
future
be
designated
or
are
some
you
know
historical
heritage
interest,
so
it's
it
really
is
I
know
that
I
actually
know
the
house
well,
I
actually
used
to
live
out
that
way,
I
work
for
the
council
now
that
area
many
many
years
ago.
So
it's
it's
really
a
quite
a
sad
day
for
heritage
here
in
the
city.
G
Yes,
I
just
wanted
some
clarification
on
the
timeline
for
residents
who
file
demolition
permits,
applications
for
them.
That
is
my
own
understanding
is
that
you
know
there
is
always
the
goal
to
get
them
within
I
believe
it's
ten
days,
but
there's
often
or
sometimes,
delays
that
can
push
it
back
three
weeks
or
or
more
I'm,
just
yeah.
It's
that
three
days
that
we
keep
coming
back
to
the
difference
between
Thursday
and
Monday
and
I.
G
Guess
in
addition
to
what
the
the
actual
timeline,
if
we
were
up
against
one
to
issue
a
demolition
permit
and
I'd,
follow
that
with
a
question
on
whether
we
see
this
final
addition
to
the
Heritage
Register,
this
last
group
that
are
coming
in
November.
If
this
is
going
to
be
resolving
this
issue
or
if
we
should
be
looking
further.
N
My
apologies
are
just
seeking
clarification,
another
matter
with
respect
to
the
Building
Code.
Yes,
it's
a
mandatory
obligation
for
demolition
permits
for
a
process
of
this
nature
for
10
business
days
to
be
completed.
In
this
case,
the
application
was
received
deemed
complete.
We
did
undertake
that
application
review
within
the
timelines
and
there
was
some
minor
outstanding,
minor
matters
that
had
to
be
fulfilled.
Those
were
fulfilled
and
the
application
was
proved
on
that
basis.
M
And
chair
I'll
follow
up
on
the
Heritage
Register
question.
Certainly,
as
you
can
appreciate
this,
isn't
this
isn't
a
positive
for
any
party
in
the
situation
not
for
the
owner?
Not
for
not
for
you
not
for
city
staff.
So,
yes,
I,
firmly
believe.
As
councillor
McKenna
said,
when
we
have
the
Heritage
Register
a
complete
as
complete
as
a
register
ever
is
at
the
end
of
this
year.
J
F
I
mean
it's
a
very
sad
state,
given
that
we've
had
a
Heritage
Program
in
Ottawa,
since
the
mid
1970s,
and
this
threat
of
being
able
to
exploit
the
loopholes
in
the
city's
system
has
certainly
shown
that
we
are
still
vulnerable
to
that
when
we
have
a
property
that
staff
was
bringing
forward
for
for
designation,
I
have
two
questions.
One
relates
to
the
intention
to
designate.
Was
there
a
letter
that
was
sent
by
staff
to
the
property
owners
that
indicated
the
intention
to
designate
now
not
talking
about
the
council
intent,
but
staff
intent
chair.
M
I
can
advise
that
on
Friday,
when
this
report
came
live,
I
did
reach
out
to
the
owners
up
agent,
mr.
palawan
Michael
palawan,
to
advise
that
that
we
were
pursuing
designation,
that
the
report
was
live.
A
subsequently
sent
an
email
Friday
night
as
well
looking
to
further
conversations
that
I'd
had
earlier
in
the
week
with
mr.
palawan
about
exploring
other
options
up
into
including
moving
the
property
on
the
site,
and
my
correspondence
was
not
acknowledged.
M
M
This
fall
and
yes
during
that
time,
the
owners
agent
did
acknowledge
that
there
were
interests
in
in
having
the
house
removed
from
this
property
and
that
the
property
was
subject
to
a
sale,
and
at
that
time
we
did
encourage
them
to
pursue
other
options.
We
did
not
believe
that
the
house
was
that
close
to
being
demolished
or
that
there
an
application
we
put
in
that
fast.
Otherwise,
we
would
have
brought
a
report
forward
to
this
committee
sooner
rather
than
today.
F
Just
let
not
a
question
but
a
comment
like
many
others
around
this
table.
I
think
that
it
appears
that,
with
a
good
lawyer,
a
property
owner
that
is
intending
to
demolish
something
simply
seem
to
have
outmaneuvered
the
city
in
this
case,
and
the
result
is
the
demolition
this
weekend
and
I
hope
we
can
learn
something
from
that.
I
Sure
just
to
seek
further
clarity
on
one
thing
you
said
the
lawyer
for
the
applicant
Michael
Paul
Owen
was
well
aware.
The
city
was
going
to
designate
this
property
so
from
a
heritage
perspective
from
a
heritage
conservation
perspective,
Michael,
Paul
Owen
was
well
aware
that
the
city
was
going
to
try
to
protect
this
property
and
it's
still
got
torn
down.
A
Just
wanted
a
staff
for
clarity.
What
a
this
isn't
the
last
time
something
like
this
may
happen.
We
will
have
our
Heritage
Register
in
place
with
nearly
3,000
buildings,
which
gives
a
longer
period
to
consider
solutions
in
the
past
and
going
forward
when
wood
staff,
you
know,
move
in
aggressively
like
they
have
done
in
this
case.
What
are
the
criteria
are
looking
for?
That
would
lead
you
to
begin
that
designation
process.
Does
that
make
sense.
B
I'll
give
it
a
try,
and
you
can
tell
me
if,
if
I've
got
it
right,
if
a
building
is
in
the
past,
when
a
building's
been
on
the
heritage.
Reference
list,
there's
only
been
one
instance
in
the
last
say,
15
years
where
we
have
brought
forward
a
similar
report
and
that
was
in
2013
when
a
building
had
there
was
a
demolition
permit
applied
for
it
was
referred
to
staff
because
it
was
on
the
Heritage
reference
list.
B
We
evaluated
it
and
determined
that
we
felt
that
it
met
the
criteria
under
the
Heritage
Act
and
was
significant
enough
that
it
warranted
this
type
of
urgent
action
because
it
met
the
criteria
under
the
Heritage
Act.
That
building
was
ultimately
designated
and
we
worked
with
the
property
owner
to
incorporate
it
into
a
plan
of
subdivision
going
forward.
We
will
have
additional
time
any
time
we
receive
an
application
or
sorry
a
notification
of
demolition
under
the
register.
A
Thank
you.
Yes,
there
any
other
questions
from
committee
members
I
mean
this
really
came
down
to
over
the
last
few
days,
a
race
against
time.
Had
this
committee
decided
to
designate
this
building
or
recommend
designation,
it
would
have
gone
to
City
Council
on
Wednesday,
and
then
there
would
have
been
a
bylaw
in
effect,
as
of
Thursday
as
a
race
against
time,
and
we
law
it's
unfortunate,
because
these
along
March
Road
and
in
a
lot
of
the
while
communities
in
old,
Huntley,
Township
Goulburn,
Township,
March
Township.
A
There
aren't
many
of
these
buildings
left
and
they
do
add
a
lot
to
the
the
fabric
of
the
community
and
of
urban
life
there.
If
you
go
down
March
Road,
there's
three
or
four
stone
buildings
that
are
still
there
and
they're
being
used
in
part
of
the
community
and
and
certainly
add
a
lot
to
the
to
the
urban
there
beloved
building.
So
it's
an
absolute
shame
that
this
one
was
lost
over
the
weekend.
I
want
thank
you
to
staff
for
the
efforts
that
you
you
did
take
in
order
to
save
this
building.
It's
unfortunate.
A
E
B
A
Okay,
because
it's
a
verbal
update,
we
don't
need
any
motion
to
accept
it,
but
we'll
end
the
conversation
there.
This
was
supposed
to
be
a
a
good
news,
built
heritage
with
the
Community
Improvement
Plan
and
the
incentives,
and
unfortunately,
we
have
to
end
on
a
on
a
negative
note.
But
are
there
any
in-camera
items
today
any
notices
of
motion
for
consideration
at
a
subsequent
meeting,
any
inquiries,
any
other
business
and
then
on
a
German?
Is
the
motion
carried
all
right?
We're
journey
thanks
everyone?
Our
next
meeting
is
Tuesday
November,
12th.