►
From YouTube: Committee on Public Safety 11-14-2022
Description
The Committee on Public Safety of the Council of the City of Philadelphia will hold a Public Hearing on Monday, November 14, 2022, at 9:00 AM to hear testimony on the following items:
220884
Resolution authorizing the City Council Committee on Public Safety to hold a public hearing examining the true cost of crime on Philadelphia residents.
Speakers interested in giving testimony on any of these legislative matters must call 215-686-3416, or send an e-mail to anthony.glass@phila.gov by 3 p.m. the day before the hearing and submit the following information:
A
B
B
A
You
Mr
chairman
I,
understand
the
state
law
currently
requires
that
the
following
announcement
be
made
at
the
beginning
of
every
remote
public
hearing
as
follows.
Due
to
the
current
Public
Health
Emergency
city
council
committees
are
currently
meeting
remotely,
we
are
using
Microsoft
teams
to
make
these
remote
hearings
possible
instructions
for
how
the
public
May
View
and
offer
public
testimony
at
public
hearings
of
council
committees
are
included
in
the
public
hearing,
notices
that
are
published
in
The,
Daily,
News,
Inquirer
and
legal
Intelligencer
prior
to
the
hearings.
It
can
also
be
found
on
phlcouncil.com.
A
Everyone
who
has
been
invited
to
the
meeting
to
testify
should
be
aware
that
this
public
hearing
is
being
recorded
because
the
hearing
is
public.
Participants
and
viewers
have
no
reasonable
expectation
of
privacy.
By
continuing
to
be
in
the
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
being
recorded
additionally
prior
to
councilman
Jones
recognizing
members
for
the
questions
or
commentary
they
have
for
the
witnesses.
I
will
note
for
the
record
at
this
time.
A
B
B
B
B
Thank
you
I'd
like
to
say
a
few
words
before
we
get
started,
and
the
first
thing
that
comes
to
my
mind
is
that
there
was
a
article
that
I
wrote
a
long
time
ago
before
I
was
elected
and
it
talked
about
a
young
person
who
stole
a
car
and
that
individual
stole
the
car.
And
we
began
a
exercise
to
Chronicle
everyone
that
was
impacted
by
that
crime
from
the
person
whose
car
that
was
stolen.
B
The
people
that
sold
the
food
that
they
incarcerated
individual
ape
to
the
defense
attorney
to
the
prosecutor,
to
the
judge,
to
the
stenographer,
to
the
people
that
sat
on
the
jury
and
what
they
were
paid
and
we
went
through
a
long
litany
of
the
economics
of
crime
and
its
impact.
That
was
the
first
kind
of
incentive
for
this
hearing.
Second,
one
was
Reverend
Holstein
brought
me
to
a
block
in
my
district
and
I'll,
never
forget
how
he
showed
that
that
block
cost
all
of
us
a
million
dollars
a
year.
B
I'm
gonna
say
it
again:
one
million
dollars
a
year
because
of
people
that
might
have
been
incarcerated
on
probation
on
parole
people
who
were
victimized
by
the
crime
that
lost
time
from
work
and
the
true
cost
of
crime
that
we
all
pay
for,
and
we
need
to
monitor
why
not
so
that
we
can
do
more
punishment,
but
that
we
can
understand
what
it
cost
us
not
to
solve
this
problem,
but
what
it
cost
us.
If
we
don't
invest
early
I
want
one.
B
So
how
often
said
in
many
different
hearings
and
some
almost
to
nauseam
from
some
of
my
members-
that
if
it
ain't
measured
it
ain't
managed
and
I
went
to
public
school
I
know
that's
broken
English,
but
it
makes
the
point
that
if
we
don't
look
at
the
cost
of
crime
in
its
many
different
aspects,
then
we
cannot
begin
to
manage
our
budgets
effectively
to
make
the
proper
Investments
early
on
that
came
in
the
long
run.
Save
us
money
to
be
a
penny
wise
and
a
pound
foolish.
It's
not
the
way
that
we
should
go.
B
B
B
So
we
want
to
take
a
look
at
this
so
that
we
can
better
appropriate
so
that
we
can
better
invest
so
that
we
can
better
understand
what
the
true
cost
of
crime
is
to
Philadelphia
and
its
citizens,
and
with
that
Mr,
are
there
any
other
members
on
the
Public
Safety
Committee?
We
would
like
to
make
comments
at
this
time.
E
Good
morning,
council
member
a
good
good
morning,
everyone,
my
name,
is
Erica
Atwood,
a
deputy
and
managing
director's
office
and
senior
director
for
the
office
of
policy
and
strategic
initiatives
for
criminal
justice
and
Public
Safety,
and
before
I
begin.
My
my
formal
testimony.
Thank
you,
council
member
challenge
for
one
giving
me
this
opportunity
to
speak
on
gun
violence
in
Philadelphia
on
the
work
of
the
cluster
that
I
manage
the
cost
of
gun
violence
in
our
city
to
the
individual,
but
also
our
communities
as
a
whole.
E
Cjb
cjps
is
the
city
of
Philadelphia's,
coordinating
Agency
for
five
individual
departments
that
make
up
the
city's
non-law
enforcement
response
to
gun
violence.
Our
agency
includes
the
office
of
violence
prevention,
the
office
of
the
victim
Advocates,
the
office
of
Criminal
Justice,
the
officer
we're
into
Partnerships
and
time
watch,
integrate
integrated
services
prior
to
my
role
as
senior
director
I
served
the
city
of
Philadelphia
and
developing
the
cities,
we're
about
to
say
for
communities
our
public
health
approach
to
reducing
gun,
violence
and
incubating
safe,
healthy
and
hopeful,
safe,
healthy
and
hope
for
Philadelphia.
E
The
road
map
is
our
comprehensive
plan
to
establish
and
Implement
a
gun,
violence
prevention
strategy
that
will
reduce
the
rising
gun
violence
rates.
The
strategy
is
focused
on
four
Central
pillars
that
inform
all
of
our
approaches
to
gun
violence
in
the
city
connected
and
thriving
youth,
young
adults
and
families,
coordinated
city
services
and
planning,
strong
Community
engagement
and
Partnerships.
The
safe
and
healthier
neighborhoods.
E
Our
programs
include
Outreach
Services
for
individuals
at
the
most
risk
of
committing
or
being
exposed
to
gun
violence
interventions,
Food
Services
for
young
people
already
involved
in
the
cycle
of
violence,
re-entry
services
for
individuals.
Returning
from
the
incarceration
system,
training
for
community
members
interested
in
becoming
more
involved
in
their
own
neighborhood
safety.
E
E
This
means
hundreds
of
families
going
to
sleep
every
night
without
a
member
or
sometimes
members
of
their
family.
The
cost
of
gun
violence
in
our
communities
is
infinitely
complex
and
nearly
immeasurable,
but
I'm
gonna
try
to
paint
a
picture
for
you.
First
I'd
like
to
note
that
Philadelphia
has
the
third
largest
High
third
highest
poverty
rate
in
the
nation
gun.
Violence
is
a
symptom
of
this
poverty.
E
When
people,
especially
young
people
whose
emotional
mental
states
are
still
developing,
are
faced
with
life
or
death
challenges
of
extreme
poverty,
it
stands
to
reason
that
they
may
react
irrationally
or
even
violently,
on
an
individual
family
level.
When
a
Philadelphia
becomes
a
victim
of
gun
violence
or
loses
a
member
to
gun
violence,
they
can
also
face
financial
difficulties
that
hamstring
a
family.
Some
of
these
challenges
face
some
of
the
challenges
facing
survivors
of
gun.
Violence
include,
first
and
foremost,
a
death
is
a
measurable
in
an
Irreplaceable
laws.
E
Individuals
who
lose
someone
to
violence
are
faced
with
the
reality
of
trauma,
of
never
being
able
to
see
that
person
again.
This
trauma
can
lead
to
mental
health
challenges
and
possibly,
and
the
possibility
of
self-harmor
harm
to
others.
Hospital
visits
are
costly
in
the
United
States
and
an
emergency
room
visit
for
gun
violence
incident
is
no
different.
In
2022,
philadelphians
have
been
charged
over
roughly
206
267.4
million
in
hospital
fees.
Today,.
E
In
2022,
philadelphians
have
been
charged
267.4
million
dollars
in
hospital
fees
to
date.
Furthermore,
families
at
Lucille
wants
a
gun.
Violence
often
have
to
relocate
or
become
dependent
upon
assistance
to
cover
potential
Financial
losses.
Financial
losses
as
long
such
as
long-term
disability
limitations
on
Mobility
child
care
for
replacing
a
missing
spouse
or
parent
transportation
and
emotional
support.
These
individual
challenges
trickle
up
to
the
community
in
the
following
ways.
Communities
lose
a
sense
of
cohesion
and
safety
due
to
a
new
or
increased
sense
of
danger.
E
Neighborhoods
often
experience
increased
mental
Wellness
challenges
as
a
as
their
sense
of
physical
insecurity
increases
due
to
Violent
incidents
in
their
neighborhood
property
value,
decreases
in
neighborhoods,
more
vulnerable
to
gun
violence,
increasing
poverty,
Financial
vulnerability
and
leading
to
Future
incidents
of
violence.
Communities
face
generational
trauma
due
to
years
of
violence
throughout
many
levels
in
the
family,
but
gun
violence
doesn't
stay
local.
It
radiates
outwards
to
a
greater
societal
level.
E
Gun
violence
is
an
issue
that
disproportionately
impacts
communities
of
color
and
is
therefore
an
issue
of
racial
Justice.
Non-Hispanic
Black
philadelphians
and
Hispanic
philadelphians
generally
make
up
over
90
percent
of
the
shooting
victims
in
our
city.
Our
communities
are
Under
Siege.
One
of
my
greatest
challenges
in
this
role
is
reaching
media
about
the
work
of
our
office.
Too
often
media
reports
on
violence
occurring
in
community,
but
it
rarely
covers
the
resources
available
to
victims
of
gun
violence.
E
E
Despite
all
of
these
challenges,
the
criminal
justice
and
Public
Safety
Costa
continues
to
work
tirelessly
on
the
issue
of
gun
violence
this
coming
year,
we're
finally
poised
to
launch
a
ready
program,
a
pilot
modeled
after
a
successful
violence
prevention
program
in
Chicago
ready,
provides
Professional,
Services
mental
health
supports
and
transitional
Sports
to
individuals.
Excuse
me
who
have
experience
or
are
at
risk
of
committing
violence,
but
also
very
resistant
to
services.
E
E
This
is
the
highest
priority
for
my
cluster
and
why
we
developed
the
world
map
to
safer
communities
and
the
Kenny
Administration
in
order
for
us
to
do
the
vital
work
of
meeting
our
communities
most
vulnerable
to
gun
violence
where
they
are
and
providing
them
with
the
best
service
as
possible.
We
need
to
continue
the
support
of
all
branches
of
our
government,
I
hope
to
continue
to
receive
your
root,
support
and
collaboration
in
the
future.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
into
for
speaking
today
and
I'll
be
happy
to
respond
to
any
questions.
Thank.
B
You
so
much
for
your
testimonies
so
much
to
unwrap
in
what
you
once
you
present
it
things
that
jumped
out
at
me
was
the
actual
medical
cost
and,
and
it's
a
staggering
figure
in
200
million,
plus
that
that
people
are
charged
with
and
someone
at
the
end
of
the
day
has
to
pay
that
bill,
and
so
that's
number
one.
The
other
thing
that
I
remember
in
other
testimonies
you'll.
B
When
we
do
this
work,
we
hear
things
from
different
sectors,
one
of
the
things
that
I
remember.
That
is
a
cost.
Someone
said
and
I
quote
and
I'm
paraphrasing
that
when
a
black
man
goes
to
jail,
a
black
woman
wind
up
in
the
shelter
and
what
did
that
mean
to
me
was
that
when
someone
is
incarcerated,
they
may
have
been
a
contributor
to
the
rent.
They've
been
contributed
to
the
household.
B
Yes,
if
we
don't
quantify
in
a
way
to
know
the
true
cost
and
that's
the
purpose
of
this
hearing,
as
we
start
to
look
and
I
want
to
thank
you
publicly
for
the
work
you
do.
It
is
not
the
kind
of
work
where
you
get
Awards
you're,
not
gonna
you
this.
This
is
the
this
is
the
nitty-gritty
boots
on
the
ground.
B
Work
literally
boots
on
the
ground
work
that
will
not
necessarily
offer
all
the
answers,
but
they
were
damn
sure,
give
us
more
of
the
questions,
and
that
is
as
important,
I
guess,
one
of
the
other
things
that
you
talked
about
I,
don't
know.
If
we've
ever
taken
a
hard
look
at
the
victims
and
what
their
cost
are,
when
they
miss
work
and
do
do
you
have
in
your
in
your
work,
have
you
ever
found
any
of
those
figures.
E
We
haven't
but
we're
because,
with
the
establishment
of
the
office
of
the
victim
Advocate,
we
are
able
to
now
really
focus
on
them,
and
the
one
thing
I
will
say
that
we're
that
I
have
been
really
trying
to
needle
in
on
is
often
when
we
talk
about
or
when
we,
when
we
meet
with
survivors,
we
often
meet
with
the
co-victims.
We
also,
we
often
meet
with
the
mothers
the
relatives,
but
there
is
a
whole
demographic
of
individuals.
E
There
are
thousands
of
individuals
in
this
city
that
have
survived
being
shot
that
we
don't
often
hear
from.
They
are
young
black
and
predominantly
young
black
men.
The
figure
is
one
in
seven
are
living
with
some
sort
of
irreputable
injury
and
so
a
paralysis,
a
colonoscopy
bag
or
something
that
has
changed
their
lives
permanently.
And
then
we
really
need
to
calculate
that
cost
when
it
comes
to
to
what
is
happening
in
our
nursing
homes
and
how
they're
being
populated
by
young
black
men.
E
When
we
talk
about
mothers
who
should
be
looking
to
retirement
but
they're,
giving
care
to
their
adult
children
because
they
can't
take
care
of
themselves
because
of
victims
of
because
they've
been
a
shooting
victim,
and
so
those
are
the
voices
and
those
are
the
costs,
measurable
and
otherwise
that
we
want
to
begin
to
to
lift
up.
So
we
can
address
it.
B
One
of
those
costs
is
when
people
actually
and
I'm
looking
at
the
victim
side
and
I'm,
looking
at
the
perpetrator
and
or
accused
side,
all
of
them
are
different
columns,
but
they
all
wind
up
in
the
same
bottom
line
of
what
it
costs.
Society
and
I
want
us
to
start
to
look
at
measuring
these
things.
That
way,
and
and
one
of
them
is
that
when
there
and
I
want
it
as
I
go
through
this
hearing,
I
think
of
more
cost
centers.
What
a
colloquy!
B
B
B
So
if
I
was
a
doctor
and
I
got
in
trouble,
for
you
know
a
violent
act,
let's
say
you
know:
I
got
into
it
with
you
know,
irate
patient
I
could
never
be
a
I,
can
never
practice
medicine
again,
and
so
those
kinds
of
things
have
a
cost
as
well.
So
I'm
gonna
stop
and
ask
any
of
my
fellow
committee
members.
If
they
have
questions
for
this
Witness
Mr.
A
B
D
D
G
D
As
you
know,
recently,
the
evaluation
that
was
conducted
on
ccip
laid
out
a
number
of
concerning
issues
with
the
program,
including
difficulty
around
coordination,
a
lack
of
support
staff,
a
little
involvement
with
Community
stakeholders
and
the
lack
of
clear
measurable
goals
for
the
program
other
than
the
general
goal
of
reducing
violence.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
your
office
is
addressing
the
concerns
laid
out
in
the
evaluation
and
specifically
whether
your
office
is
developing
clear,
measurable
goals
right
now,
what
they
entail
and
how
you
actually
will
measure
them
sure.
E
Thank
you
for
that
question,
council,
member
Kim,
and
so
with
regard
to
our
community
Crisis
Intervention
Program.
It
was
established
in
2018
as
a
violence
interrupter
program
what
we
have
done
in
response
to
the
evaluation.
Actually,
let
me
back
up
a
little
bit
and
say
this:
while
what
we
perceive
from
the
process.
Evaluation
was
not
necessarily
a
a
gold
star.
What
we
do
realize
is
that
it
gets
us
on
the
right
track
and
so
I
was
asked
by
a
reporter.
Is
it
a
gut
punch?
E
No,
it's
not
a
gut
punch.
It
gets
us
on
the
right
track.
We
have
a
corrective
action
plan
now
and
in
that
corrective
action
plan
is
we
are
hiring
a
director
internal
to
the
city
that
will
work
with
will
not
just
rely
on
the
contractor
to
be
chiefly
in
charge
of
facilitating
the
program,
but
we
will
have
stronger
oversight
of
that
program
in
that
position
actually
should
be
posted
within
the
next
three
to
four
weeks.
E
With
the
hiring
of
that
position,
we
will
now
be
able
to
coordinate
now
our
three
providers
for
this
program,
because
we
can
develop
shared
outcomes
and
have
a
benchmark
of
measuring
I'm.
Not
we
have
democratized
the
work
and
hired
providers
that
specialize,
and
so
we
have
we've
always
had
Philadelphia
anti-drug
anti-violence,
Network
pan.
So
now
we
also
have
Eddie's
house
in
west
and
southwest
Philadelphia
and
We
additionally
added
a
day,
and
so
our
day
is
really
going
to
focus
on
juvenile.
E
So,
as
we
were
seeing
that
uptick,
how
are
we
specializing
our
supports
and
services
for
that?
How
are
we
utilizing
a
different
Geographic
approach
because
of
the
the
nuances
and
personalities
of
our
neighborhood
and
that?
How
are
we
across
our
providers,
strengthening
our
training
program,
really
implementing
a
program
for
professional
development
for
the
Outreach
workers,
building
up
Partnerships
with
organizations
like
our
trauma,
one
centers
across
the
city
and
Community
Community
College
of
Philadelphia
to
be
able
to
support
these
these
violence
Interrupters?
E
We
have
already
set
a
table
with
our
other
interrupter
models
and
Dr
Arisa
Baya
has
set
that
table
where
we
are
coming
together.
So
you
have
Temple
at
the
table.
You
have
Presbyterian
at
the
table.
You
have
the
city
of
Philadelphia
at
the
table
and
others
who
have
violence,
interrupter
programs
and
how
we've
been
developing
not
just
share
the
outcomes
for
the
city,
but
share
the
outcomes
for
all
communities
that
have
violence
interrupted
work
happening.
Is
that
get
at
your
your
question.
D
D
Another
key
issue
that
was
raised
in
the
report
was
the
difficulty
of
staff
to
quickly
provide
resources
to
people
they
need
to
need
them.
We
know
that
this
has
long
been
a
problem
around
access
to
mental
health
services,
employment,
other
types
of
things.
So
could
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
is
being
done
to
coordinate
the
timely
delivery
of
resources.
E
Yeah,
so
part
of
that
is
strengthening
our
our
case
management
and
our
coordination
Services,
the
other
Nuance
that
I'm
saying
this
is
not
an
excuse,
but
just
a
highlight.
This
evaluation
was
happening
in
the
midst
of
covet,
and
so
the
connections
with
providers
were
not
there
in
the
way
that
they
they
are
now,
and
so
we
are
re-strengthening
those
relationships
we
had
with
Behavioral
Health
supports.
E
D
You
know
during
covid
we
created
the
most
successful
rent
assistance
eviction
prevention
program
that
the
city.
You
know
that
the
country
had
seen
during
covid.
We
were
able
to
deliver
Mutual
Aid
figure
things
out,
I
mean
I.
I
know
that
that
was
a
challenging
time,
but
as
crisis
is
about
needing
it
and
then
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
fitting
individuals
into
something
that
we
create
but
adapting
our
systems
to
meet
the
needs.
D
E
But
we're
prioritizing
hiring
a
director
and
in
training
and
professional
development
of
the
of
the
current
workers
and
increasing
the
capacity
of
the
program
across
the
city.
Those
are
the
things
that
we
know:
we've
we've
gotta
we've
got
to
take
the
training
a
lot
more
seriously
and
I've
expressed
that
and
I've
communicated
that
to
my
team
and
the
providers
and
having
someone
who
is
at
their
full-time
job
is
to
manage
this
program.
E
D
E
D
I
just
need
to
emphasize
that
hiring
the
executive
director
cannot
be
a
priority
for
phase
two
evaluation.
It
just
can't
it
is
like
basically
a
responsibility.
It's
it's
a.
It
is
the
job.
My
questions
were
really
about
the
core
questions
identified
with
the
evaluation.
We
are
not
coordinated.
We
do
not
have
enough
support
for
staff.
That
doesn't
necessarily
is
not
necessarily
the
result
of
the
executive
director
I'm.
It's
inconceivable
that
there
isn't
a
permanent
director,
but
that
being
said,
you
know
like
I,
understand
how
difficult
many
of
these
challenges
are.
D
I
just
want
to
emphasize
that
my
core
concerns
about
phase
two
evaluation
have
nothing
to
do
with
whether
the
administration
hires
an
executive
director
and
sounds
like
it
gets
the
program
off
the
ground.
It's
got
to
fundamentally
deal
with
the
you
know:
the
coordination
of
services,
the
ability
of
of
significant
and
strategic
support
for
staff,
Beyond,
an
executive
director
occupying
a
seat,
and
you
know
the
engagement
that
the
community
stakeholders
that
we've
got
right
now,
so
you
know
we
will
be
paying
close
attention.
D
You
know
we
want
you.
This
is
a
deep
investment
by
our
Council.
We
cannot.
We
have
already
heard,
as
you
know,
from
the
chair,
one
out
of
every
three
dollars
is
already
spent
on
institutions
that
we
have
not
gone
further
in
ccip
is
the
unknown
part
of
it?
The
part
that
is
outside
of
the
traditional
measures
of
dealing
with
violence.
That
is
not
solving
the
issues,
and
so
we
want
to
know
that
it
can.
It
is.
D
It
has
the
kind
of
priority
supports
attention
and
a
firm
commitment
to
the
outcomes
that
we
desperately
believe
that
we
need
to
have
otherwise
it
won't
be
one
out
of
three
dollars:
it'll
be
one
out
of
two
dollars,
it'll
be
so
much
more,
and
it's
not
giving
us
the
outcomes
that
we
need.
So
ccip
is
something
that
you
know
that
we
need
a
lot
of
attention
to
right
now,
because
if
we
can't
figure
it
out
through
ccip
and
other
cities
have
to
be
clear.
Other
cities
have
done
this
work.
D
E
B
B
B
And
there's
going
to
be
an
expectation
that
we
do
that
in
a
second
round,
but
each
time
we
do
that
we
should
be
making
cost
considerations
of
return
on
investment
considerations
to
say
that
we
like
this
program,
but
does
it
does
it
meet
what
the
outcomes
we
need
did
shootings
go
down?
Did
crime
go
down,
dude
did
murders
go
down
and
to
evaluate?
If
we
do
more
of
this,
will
that
Trend
continue,
but
it
doesn't
happen
if
we
don't
know
how
much
things
cost.
E
E
Who,
then
is
is
really
paying
attention
to
it,
and
so
I
I
understand
that
folks
have
concern
about
positions.
But
if
there
is
not
oversight,
then
what
the
second
thing
I
will
say
in
regard
to
our
grants,
we
are
we,
we
have
launched
an
evaluation.
At
the
same
time,
we
began
our
grants
to
be
able
to
understand
the
importance
of
investing
in
community-based
organizations
that
have
the
trust,
relationship
and
familiarity
with
communities,
because
often
in
the
same,
the
same
Erica's
saying
it's,
it's
something
I've
heard
over
the
years.
E
It's
those
who
are
closest
to
the
problem
are
closest
to
the
solution,
but
also
have
the
least
access
to
resources
and
power,
and
so
how
do
we
change
that
Paradigm?
So
we
can
truly
build
an
equal
system
around
vulnerable
communities
that
get
out
the
short
and
the
long-term
issues
they
are
experiencing,
including
gun
violence
like
quality
education,
lack
of
support
for
behavioral
health
issues,
lack
of
economic
Mobility
and
just
just
general
quality
of
life
issues.
B
A
H
H
G
G
We
are
deployed
to
crime
scenes
throughout
the
city
of
Philadelphia
from
6
A.M
to
10
pm,
so
we
are
providing
Crisis
Support
to
those
mothers
to
those
fathers,
the
grandmothers,
grandfathers,
family
members,
cousins,
Neighbors
to
anyone
who
was
present
on
a
crime
scene
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
again
from
6
a.m,
to
10
P.M.
We
are
there,
giving
them
Crisis
Support,
giving
them
information.
G
Giving
them
information
on
how
they
can
make
it
through
the
very
next
day
which
is
so
traumatic
and
while
we're
there
speaking
to
these
family
members,
their
deceased
loved
one,
is
still
on
the
scene.
The
work
that
we
do
is
extremely
heavy,
we're
working
hand
in
hand
with
the
detectives
that
are
on
the
scene,
we're
working
hand
in
hand
with
the
officers
that
are
on
the
scene.
The
very
next
day.
G
But
while
we're
walking
with
these
families
for
these
first
45
days
is
crucial,
it
is
extremely
crucial
a
lot
of
these
families.
They
do
not
have
life
insurance
for
their
babies,
so
we're
offering
these
the
funeral
directors
that
we
know
where
the
money
is
not
an
initiative
and
they
may
wait
to
get
their
money
off
the
back
end
when
filing
the
claim,
through
victims,
compensation
we're
we're
walking
with
them
when
they
have
to
contact
the
medical
examiner's
office.
Because
I
don't
know
if
you
know,
but
the
medical
examiner's
office
procedure
has
changed
since
covet.
G
They
cannot
go
down
to
the
medical
examiner's
office
and
identify
their
loved
one.
They
have
to
do
that
by
phone.
They
may
have
to
do
that
by
email,
which
a
lot
of
them
think
this.
This
is
not
empathetic,
so
we
listen
to
them
and
we
love
on
them
and
we
offer
them
the
supports
that
are
needed.
We
are
speaking
to
these
families
when
they
can't
get
in
contact
with
the
homicide
detective
because
they
want
to
know
what's
going
on
with
their
their
loved
one.
They
want
to
know.
G
Has
there
been
any
updates
in
their
case
and
then
they
will
contact
us?
So
not
only
are
we
deployed
to
the
crime
scenes
we're
also
with
hospitals,
we're
at
the
hospitals
where
the
families
are
gathered
in
that
room
and
the
doctor
is
giving
that
death
notification
at
that
time,
we're
there
to
offer
Crisis
Support.
G
G
We're
contacting
them
by
phone,
we're
doing
home
visits,
we're
going
out
to
their
house
to
sit
there
and
speak
with
them
and
again
love
on
them.
Even
during
covet
No
Interruption,
we
ask
them.
Do
you
have
a
porch?
Do
you
have
a
patio
where
we
can
sit
down
and
we
can
speak
with
you
and
still
offer
those
space
to
face
needs
that
they
have
so
we
do
not
miss
a
beat,
even
though
we
are
in
in
the
covet
stage.
G
G
One
of
our
greatest
needs
is
relocation
for
those
mothers
who
have
lost
a
loved
one,
maybe
in
her
house,
maybe
in
front
of
her
door,
but
relocation
is
huge.
So
the
cares
unit
collaborates
with
the
community-based
agencies
to
ensure
that
all
needs
are
met
and
then,
of
course,
we
lean
on
the
other
important
units
within
the
Philadelphia
District
Attorney's
office
to
ensure
that
safety
is
first
and
foremost
for
the
co-h
homicide
survivors.
Thank
you
so
much
thank.
H
H
H
B
You
find
your
next
person
to
testify.
Can
you
tell
us
in
this
process
the
cost
we
want
to
kind
of
focus,
I
I
know
the
good
work
I've
been
involved
in
many
of
our
members
on
this
committee
have
been
there
when
those
services
are
utilized
and
needed
at
a
at
a
crime
scene
at
a
homicide,
but
also
what
it?
What
does
it
cost
to
provide
that
I
I?
We
want
to
drill
down
on.
You
know,
you
know,
there's
an
emotional
cost,
but
there
is
actual
costs
involved
too.
B
G
You
speak
about
the
emotional
cost,
the
beautiful
part
about
what
the
community
base
offers
that
all
services
are
free.
What
cares
offers
is
free
and-
and
please
forgive
me-
I
forgot
to
mention
therapy
therapy
is
huge,
but
the
cares
unit
has
a
partnership
with
ABP
and
we're
able
to
provide
free
therapy
with
them,
which
again
therapy
is
huge.
A
lot
of
the
community-based
agencies
throughout
the
city
of
Philadelphia
has
a
waiting
list,
and
then
sometimes
you
have
those
cool
homicide.
G
Survivors
that
may
utilize
therapy,
through
their
health
insurance,
I'm,
not
sure
about
that
cost,
but
the
therapy
cost
they
can
be
reimbursed
through
victims
compensation,
as
you
know,
they
can
be
reimbursed
for
up
to
6
500..
You
and
I
know
that's
not
enough
to
bury
a
loved
one.
We
do
have
some
family
members
that
have
a
gymnastic
that
6500
will
cover
that,
but
some
other
funerals
that
you
know
that
the
funeral
costs
goes
well
over
6
500..
So
so
you.
B
G
That
is
correct.
Obviously
this
councilman,
when
you
spoke
about
crime
scene,
cleanup
through
Victor's
compensation,
they
can
be
reimbursed
for
up
to
five
hundred
dollars
for
a
crime
scene
and
the
through
pccd
they've
added
a
vehicle
before
a
vehicle
wasn't
included
in
those
charges.
It
was
just
a
home,
but
but
councilman
the
issue
is
reimbursement.
G
People
don't
have
that
money
up
front
to
be
reimbursed
the
beautiful
part
about
the
the
cares
unit
and
our
responders
and
how
we
work
so
hard.
We
try
to
find
those
resources
for
people
who
are
not
in
it
just
for
the
money.
We
try
to
find
those
resources
for
people
who
are
in
it
because
they're
empathetic,
because
they
love
people
and
they
know
that
if
we're
working
with
this
family,
they
will
get
their
money
on
the
back
end.
So
we
do
have
a
resource
for
Crime
Scene
cleanup.
G
B
B
Let
me
say
that
again
what
you
do
to
a
grieving
family
for
a
grieving
family
is
priceless,
but
there
is
a
cost
and
we
have
to
kind
of
start
in
society
figuring
out
what
those
costs
are
and
how
to
reinvest
more
in
in
certain
aspects
of
it
and
kind
of
redirect
in
other
aspects
of
it
and
that's
the
hard
part
of
this
work.
That's
the
hard
part
of
this
work.
H
I
I
Of
course,
we
have
to
make
sure
that
all
of
those
families
file
for
lease
reports,
because
we
work
directly
with
our
police
department
and
we
receive
referrals
from
the
police
department
as
well
as
our
prosecutors,
will
refer
to
our
our
program
to
make
sure
that
their
victims,
Witnesses
and
the
families
are
safe.
It
is
very
imperative
because
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we're
ensuring
their
safety
to
the
best
of
our
ability,
because
they
are
actually
those
who
are
testifying
in
many
of
our
court
cases
against
the
perpetrators
of
crime.
I
I
Of
course,
if
you
have
to
provide
more
than
one
room
because
they
may
have
multiple
family
members,
especially
the
children,
we
want
to
make
sure
our
children
are
safe.
We
make
sure
that
they
are.
There
are
more
rooms
that
we
need
to
get
to
maybe
three
rooms.
We
try
to
accommodate
those
things.
Also.
We
have
to
make
sure
that
we
are
not
oh
they're
fed
they
have
to
eat.
I
The
great
thing
about
this
program
is
that
we
do
have
staff
that
are
there,
they
are
available
and
where
they're
moving
they're
actually
making
certain
that
these
families
are
receiving
the
same
type
of
care
that
they
receive
if
they
were
actually
in
their
own
homes.
So
we
are
really
supporting
them
thoroughly.
We
know
that
the
current
funding
for
the
AG's
office
is
approximately
1.2
million
dollars,
however,
Philadelphia
being
a
large
County.
I
Of
course,
we
are
really
the
ones
that
are
using
most
of
their
budget
and
then,
of
course,
our
city
funding,
which
has
been
over
time
260
000
per
year,
and
we
are
very
grateful
of
for
any
additional
funding
that
we
have
received
to
support
this
program.
Of
course,
the
cost
again
includes
hotel
stays
of
parking
transportation
to
and
from
especially
if
they
have
to
go
to
and
from
court,
and
also
to
make
sure
that
we
are
supporting
them.
I
Of
course,
as
the
crime
has
upticked
in
Philadelphia,
we
have
had
increased
referrals
for
relocation.
Our
funded
support
would
also
help.
Of
course,
additional
funding
support
would
help
us
to
include
housing
Specialists
to
work.
Alongside
of
those
who
are
already
serving
and
relocating
these
families.
Our
housing
Specialists
then
provide
case
management
which
will
assist
with
longer
term
support
the
state
of
our
families
to
receive
stabilized
housing.
So
we
do
not
want
to
have
people
that
are
in
our
relocation
program.
I
Unfortunately,
going
out
of
the
program
and
still
are
not
able
to
sustain
housing,
they
we
want
to
make
sure
that
they
have
stabilized
housing.
So,
in
order
to
to
do
that,
we
would
absolutely
want
to
include
case
managers
or
housing
Specialists
to
assist
with
that
process.
We
can
never
assume
that
families
are
able
to
navigate
systems,
because
we
find
that
many
of
our
families
unfortunately,
are
not
educated.
They
don't
have
the
capacity.
Some
of
them
may
have
maybe
even
a
sixth
grade
education
level.
I
So
we
have
to
make
sure
that
they're
able
to
navigate
these
systems
because
they
have
other
challenges,
and
we
may
have
to
also
include
the
fact
that
they
are
not
able
to
go
through
the
process.
Without
someone
someone
some
additional
support,
which
is
important
again,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
not
now
creating
people
that
will
become
homeless
later
on
and,
unfortunately
have
to
return
to
the
program.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
they
will
have
secure
housing
in
the
long
term.
I
So
again,
this
is
really
important
to
all
of
us
to
make
sure
that
these
things
are
in
place
to
support
these
families
and
with
that,
of
course
it
comes
costs.
So
we
said
we
hope
to
to
increase
and
include
services
and
supports
in
our
relocation
program
again,
as
the
need
is
greater
and
the
referrals
are
absolutely
increasing.
B
I
Is
all
the
above?
We
locate
folks
for
our
non-tables
as
well
as
our
publicycle
survivors.
We
certainly
look
out
for,
of
course,
the
children,
because
we
have
to
recall
relocate
families
so
oftentimes,
there
are
a
number
of
people,
and
it's
even
thinking
about
if
the
person
who
is
a
witness
or
a
victim
or
Survivor,
sometimes
they
have
family
members
that
are
elderly
that
they
care
for
so
not
only
do
we
have
to
relocate
the
children,
we
also
may
have
to
relocate
the
elderly
person
in
which
they
are
providing
care
for.
I
So,
if
there's
any
threat
imposed,
whether
it's
shooting,
whether
it's
homicide
or
whether
it's
other
circumstances,
we
we
make
sure
that
these
families
are
well
taken
care
of,
they
could
be
stabbings,
it
could
be
other
threats.
But
if
there
are
threats
of
danger,
we
certainly
want
to
make
sure
that
they're
relocated
and
getting
them
to
safety.
I
Unfortunately,
when
I
mentioned
five
per
week,
five
referrals
and
that's
potentially
five
per
week
for
the
most
part,
we
are
relocating
the
majority
of
these
people
to
safety,
even
if
they're
already
in
public
housing,
we
are
actually
helping
them
to
get
in
other
safe,
safe
areas
outside
of
the
danger
zone.
So
relocation
is
happening
constantly
and
most
of
the
referrals
because
they
are
coming
from
our
Police
Department.
So
we
have
documentation
on
the
record
that
there
is
some
form
of
intimidation
occurring
for
that
family.
H
What
I
can
share
with
you,
council
member,
as
as
my
colleague,
Robert
Maxwell
mentioned?
We
receive
260
000
annually
from
city
council
that
comes
through
the
managing
director's
office
to
our
office.
For
now
we
did
get
an
increase.
D.A
krasner
made
a
requests
through
our
Finance
unit.
We
asked
for
additional
funds,
we
receive
that
in
February,
but
we
weren't
able
to
we.
We
requested
it
at
the
end
of
last
year.
H
B
H
We
can
get,
we
can
get
those
numbers
and
I'll
ask
our
victim
support
services,
division
to
provide
those
specific
numbers
as
to
how
many
families
we
relocated.
As
far
as
the
number
over
the
last
you
know,
year,
two
or
five
years,
we
we
can
get
those
specific
numbers
to
you
in
an
expeditious
fashion,
because
again
that
that
that
varies
one
family,
we
may
be
relocating
20
people.
H
B
What
was
helpful,
what
would
be
helpful
is,
if
you
said
out
of
I,
know
how
much
money
we
allocated
I
know
how
much
you
spent
that's
fine,
how
many
people
knocked
on
the
door
and
said
move
me
off
at
his
block
and
then
what
is
the
average
cost
of
that
move,
not
in
every
case?
But
what
is
the
average
cost
to
provide
that
service
to
a
victim
or
a
witness
understood,
trying
to
put
our
arms
around
the
true
cost
of
this,
and
then
the
question
I
would
have.
B
B
H
C
Of
course,
so
we
have,
we
currently
have
26
Adas
in
our
homicide,
non-fatal
shooting
unit,
we
prosecute
all
homicides
and
any
case
where
a
shooting
victim
was
hit
by
a
bullet
for
the
DA's
office.
We
will
be
going
down
to
25
Adas,
as
one
of
our
attorneys
is
retiring
in
January
of
2023,
so
that
number
of
currently
26
going
to
25
includes
three
supervisors
myself,
our
chief
of
the
unit
Joanne
Pescatore,
and
our
second
assistant
chief
Bob
Foster.
C
So
in
terms
of
lion
DA's,
where
we're
primarily
assigning
cases,
that
number
is
going
to
go
currently
from
23,
excluding
the
supervisors
down
to
22
as
of
January,
and
our
current
caseload
is
approximately
1100
open
cases.
It's
almost
an
even
split
550
homicides,
550,
non-fatal
shootings,
and
we
are
all
on
trial
constantly.
C
There's
one
on-call
position:
that's
exclusively
for
vehicular
homicides
and
that
ADA
works
with
the
accident
investigation,
Division
and
then
the
other
position
rotates
one
week
at
a
time,
Friday
at
5
PM
until
the
next
Friday
at
5
PM,
where
that
attorney
is
on
call
for
all
other
types
of
murder,
and
that
is
in
addition
to
and
not
instead
of
the
regular
Court
load,
so
in
other
words
they're
in
court
all
day,
they
finish
their.
You
know
their
their
job
at
the
office.
C
B
It's
usually
cost
this
much
to
prosecute
and
if
it
ends
in
a
plea
agreement,
it
costs
this
much
if
I
have
to
go
to
trial
for
a
shooting
or
a
murder
case,
the
average
time
it
takes
to
do.
That
is
why
and
it's
longer-
and
it
costs
this
much
if
that
makes
sense
that
I
know
how
many
cases
you
per
Ada
have
to
do.
What
I'd
like
a
breakdown
and
not
not
today,
but
I,
want
you
to
think
about
how
much
does
a
murder
case
cost
and
somebody
somebody
has
this
number
and
I.
B
The
reason
I
know
is
because
when
we
start
to
do
plea
agreements,
there's
a
reason,
time
and
cost,
and-
and
so
that's
why
that
that
is
the
preferred
outcome
at
times
for
a
case,
let's
play
it
out
and
let's
get
it
moved
on,
but
how
much
when
somebody
says
no
I
want
to
go
to
trial.
How
long
does
that
average
murder
trial?
Take
and
how
much
does
it
cost?
Somebody
has
that
number.
C
If
you
lose
it's
a
mandatory
life
sentence.
Are
you
sure
you
don't
want
the
offer
you've
been
saying
for
the
past
11
months?
You
don't
want
and
I'll
give
you
more
time
to
talk
to
your
attorney
about
it,
and
then
they
accept
it.
So
just
to
keep
that
in
mind,
as
well
as
a
distinction
between
it,
quick
for
lack
of
a
better
term
get
guilty,
please
and
ones
that
might
take
the
same
trial,
prep
right
up
until
the
last
minute.
B
B
C
C
So
these
attorneys,
who
were
in
the
units
throughout
our
office
in
the
trial
Division,
and
particularly
in
this
unit,
they
are
handling
every
type
of
case
they're,
making
on-call
decisions
or
making
Court
decisions.
They're,
trying
every
type
of
bench,
trial,
jury,
trial,
pre-trial
motions,
post-trial,
ocean,
sentencings
and
they're
really
valuable
additions
to
the
to
the
prosecution
of
these
violent
cases
for
the
city.
And
so
we
just
appreciate
any
consideration
of
all
the
testimony
that
I've
given
today
and
thank
you
very
much
for
your
time.
B
B
B
B
H
B
And,
and
also
the
answer
to
the
question:
how
much
does
a
plea
to
a
shooting
case
cost
versus
a
shooting
case
that
goes
to
trial
or
the
same
for
a
murder
case,
and
how
long
do
they
last
and
how
much?
How
much
do
they
actually
cost
those
kinds
of
quantifying
cost
centers
allow
us
to
know
where
we
are
and
what
your
true
budget
needs
to
be.
J
Record
good
good
morning,
again:
Mike
Lee,
chief
of
staff
for
the
District
Attorney's
office,
and
thank
you
for
calling
this
very
important
hearing
and
including
the
District
Attorney's
office.
As
we
try
to
work
through
this
solution
together
and
to
your
last
question
about
what
would
the
difference
be
between
a
plea
and
a
trial?
J
It's
negligible,
because
so
much
of
the
fiscal
cost
is
in
the
discovery
and
the
analysis
of
evidence
and
witness
preparation.
And
things
like
that.
So
there
would
be
some
things
like
Transportation
costs
or
an
expert
testifying
again
as
to
what
we
already
paid
them
to
prepare
in
a
report.
But
we'll
gladly
get
that
information
to
you.
But
I
just
wanted
to
temper
some
of
the
expectation
that
there
would
be
a
tremendous
amount
of
fiscal
saving
to
a
guilty
plea
and
that's.
J
Why
there's
so
much
importance
in
our
continued
investment
into
the
caseload
and
the
technology
so
that
we
can
help
better
understand
the
cost
of
our
decision
making,
both
in
terms
of
economics
and
outcomes
in
terms
of
making
sure
we're
actually
helping
people
change
their
behavior,
but
also
in
terms
of
our
own
performance
measurements,
so
that
we
know
that
what
we're
doing
is
measured
and
right.
So
thank
you
again
for
the
opportunity
to
allow
us
to
speak
and
I
just
wanted
to
touch
very
briefly
on
that
particular
cost
piece.
Thank
you.
Thank.
B
K
I've
stated
this
previously,
but
I
think
this
is
a
data
point
that
is
so
critical
for
this
conversation
and
for
our
Solutions
here
over
80
percent
of
our
clients,
over
80
percent
of
our
clients
accused
of
gun,
violent
crimes
are
victims
of
violent
crimes.
Themselves
are
victims
of
violence,
so
right
away.
We
need
to
dispel
the
notion
that
the
current
gun
violence
crisis
is
made
up
of
static
groups
of
victims
and
perpetrators.
The
reality
is
today's
witness
for
the
prosecution.
May
well,
be
tomorrow's
defendant
when
it
comes
to
gun
crimes.
K
K
In
fact,
if
we're
talking
about
economic
impact,
there's
a
mountain
of
research
to
suggest
that
these
tactics
are
exacerbating
economic
destabilization
in
the
communities
where
they
are
most
often
used
for
decades.
In
Philadelphia,
traditional
law
enforcement
practices
and
racialized
mass
incarceration
has
had
a
disproportionate
negative
impact
on
relatively
small
sections
of
the
city,
predominantly
in
poor
black
and
brown
communities
in
communities
vulnerable
to
violence.
There
are
numerous
factors
that
contribute
to
individuals
becoming
even
more
likely
to
participate
in
or
be
the
victim
of
violence.
K
These
include
disruption
of
the
family
unit
city
of
Philadelphia
currently
leads
the
nation
in
the
placement
of
black
and
brown
children
outside
of
the
home.
We
leave
the
nation
in
that
statistic:
economic
and
housing,
instability
and
school
disengagement.
Not
only
do
these
factors
have
the
biggest
impact
on
children,
they
have
long-term
consequences
for
them
as
individuals
and
members
of
the
larger
society.
They're
often
both
cause
and
consequences
of
incarceration,
even
relatively
brief
periods
of
pre-trial
detention
were
presumptively.
K
Innocent
people
are
held
prior
to
their
trial,
have
enormous
impact
on
the
clients
we
serve
and
their
families
per
the
Court's
research
and
data
analysis
funded
by
MacArthur
initiative.
30
of
the
jail
population
in
September
of
2022
were
their
pre-trial.
They
had
no
detainers,
they
were
there
simply
because
they
could
not
afford
bail
jail
stays
of
three
days
or
more,
even
if
the
charges
are
ultimately
dismissed
or
the
client
is
found
not
guilty
are
linked
to
poorer
life
outcomes.
K
K
For
example,
the
mass
incarceration
of
men
has
contributed
to
an
equally
devastating
eviction
crisis
families
become
unable
to
afford
housing
due
to
the
loss
of
the
incarcerated
person's
income.
It
leads
one
researcher
to
conclude
that
poor
black
men
were
locked
up
and
poor
black
women
were
locked
out.
That's
just
one
example:
criminal.
K
The
defender
Association
will
be
shared
its
own
gun,
violence
policy,
where
we
outline
some
of
the
causes
and
conditions
of
violence,
but
we're
also
offering
the
result
of
our
own
internal
analysis
and
ways
to
plan
to
improve
our
practice
to
better
serve
our
clients
and
communities.
These
improvements
include
changes
to
our
representation
model
to
stay
in
better
contact
with
our
clients.
I'm
proud
that,
just
recently,
our
children
in
youth
Justice
unit
has
moved
to
vertical
representation.
Our
youngest
clients
now
have
one
attorney
from
the
start
to
the
end
of
their
case.
K
We
want
to
embed
victim
Services.
We
want
to
increase
social
service
support
in
our
office.
I
mentioned
the
earlier
data
about
our
clients
who
have
themselves
been
victims
of
violence
or
trauma
or
have
been
removed
from
their
family
home
at
an
early
age
and
placed
in
foster
care
or
who
age
out
of
the
foster
care
system
and
it
and
have
nowhere
to
go.
These
are
the
clients
we
see,
arrested
and
charged
for
adult
crimes,
including
gun
violence.
K
So
we
want
to
provide
more
dedicated
social
service
support.
Our
clients
need
wraparound
services
and,
as
public
defenders
who
sometimes
spend
a
year,
there
are
two
or
three
working
on
their
case.
If
we
can
provide
those
dedicated,
wrap-around,
Social
Service
report
supports
our
clients
will
do
better.
K
Many
of
our
clients
are
going
to
come
home,
and
so
what
will
they
come
home
to
if
we
do
not
also
work
with
the
community
to
ensure
that
when
they
are
released,
we
can
minimize
barriers
to
re-entry
and
I'm
proud
of
the
work
that
our
staff
currently
does
in
getting
into
the
communities
and
working
with
the
Community
Partners
communities,
where
our
clients
live
again?
Individual
agencies
acting
alone
won't
stem
the
tide
of
violence.
The
justice
system
does
have
a
role
to
play,
but
it
was
designed
to
address
criminogenic
behavior.
K
Only
after
a
crime
has
been
committed.
We
can't
expect
to
rely
solely
on
law
enforcement
and
our
court
system
to
break
that
cycle.
The
defender
is
committed
to
working
with
our
justice
system,
Partners
Community
organizations,
elected
officials,
citizens
to
holistically
address
the
social
and
economic
causes
and
impacts
of
gun
violence
on
our
city.
Thank
you
again
for
this
opportunity
to
share
our
thoughts
and
insights
on
this
important
issue.
That
concludes
my
testimony.
Council.
Member
thank.
B
I
have
problems
that
are
going
to
result
in
me
being
an
offender
and
we
ignored
them
as
a
society.
So
I
want
to
thank
you
for
that,
and
one
of
the
things
that
your
department
also
illustrates
that,
if
an
individual,
when,
when
an
individual
who
is
Accused,
sits
in
jail,
there
is
an
economic
cost.
That's
correct,
and
your
quote
was
that
give
it
to
me
again:
I
I,
butchered
it
in
the
beginning
of
this
statement.
I'll.
K
They
are
often
the
ones
who
are
paying
the
rent
on
to
maintain
housing.
They're,
often
sometimes
the
only
source
of
a
family's
economic
support
and
after
three
days
those
consequences
start
to
mount
and
the
the
the
it
leads
to
an
eviction
crisis.
And
the
quote
and
I
quote
it
here:
poor
black
men
were
locked
top
and
poor
black
women
were
locked
out.
B
If,
if
you
follow
what
we
learned
from
you
that
young
people
in
foster
care
have
a
disproportionate
poor
outcome
that
they
wind
up
without
Services,
they
wind
up
sometimes
running
afoul
of
the
law
disproportionate
to
some
of
the
young
people
that
don't
go
through
that
system.
If
that
is
true,
then
if
we
invest
a
little
more
on
the
front
end,
we
can
save
a
lot
more
on
the
back
end.
So
those
kinds
of
budget
decisions
need
to
be
made
based
on
quantifying
costs,
short-term
and
long
term,
and
so
that's
the
purpose
of
this
hearing.
B
Yes
and
I
wanted
to
thank
you
for
what
your
department
does
and
people's
listen
Bill
Greenlee,
my
former
colleague,
was
a
big
fan
along
with
Derek
green,
yes
and
I.
Remember
us
going
over
there
we
actually
spent
a
day
with
your
department.
We
had
no
I
I
had
let
me
take
that
back.
I
had
no
idea
how
much
your
department
does
from
custody
cases
being
an
advocate
for
those
young
people
being
a
public
defender
of
the
accused
to
advocating
for
things
like
the
removal
of
automatic
life
sentences
for
juvenile
offenders.
B
I
mean
I
can
go
on
and
on
about
what
your
department
has
done
with
the
limited
amount
of
funding
we
give
you
I'll
say
that
again,
with
the
limited
amount
of
funding
we
give
you
and
the
benefit
that
you
give
to
all
of
us,
and
so
I
want
to
thank
you
for
that.
But,
as
we
start
to
move
towards
budget,
your
department,
The
Defenders
Association
of
Courts,
usually
give
us
pretty
good
budget
presentations.
K
B
K
B
Our
asks,
and
and
with
your
ass,
but
this
year,
I
want
to
pay
particular
attention
to
what
things
cost
and
I.
Don't
think
we
spend
enough
time
on
that,
so
that
we
can
truly
appropriate
to
the
need
not
just
to
the
column
in
line
but
to
the
demand,
and
so,
if
you'll,
you
know,
I
look
forward.
I
literally
I'm
I've
been
been
here
long
enough
to
geek
out
on
certain
departments,
said:
I
pay
attention
to
their
presentation,
and
yours
is
one
of
them:
Mr
glass.
Is
there
anybody
who
has
any
questions
for
this
Witness.
B
K
B
L
L
At
the
time,
Philadelphia's
homicide
rate
was
increasing,
while
other
large
cities
were
seeing
drastic
declines,
and
it's
important
to
note
as
as
we've
as
a
report
does
and
as
we've
discussed
today,
the
vast
majority
of
homicides
in
Philadelphia
are
committed
using
a
gun
and
the
population
most
affected
by
this
gun.
Violence
in
Philadelphia
is
young
black
men
and
as
the
financial
Watchdog
for
the
city,
the
controller's
office
wanted
to
examine
the
impact
of
homicides
and
gun
violence
through
a
financial
lens.
L
The
the
report
did
not
seek
to
quantify
the
the
human
impact
of
a
murderer,
which
is,
is
difficult
to
quantify,
but
instead
focused
on
property
values
in
the
city
it.
The
report
chose
to
examine
housing
values
as
an
update
to
a
2012
Center
study
by
the
center
for
American
progress
that
looked
at
the
the
cost
of
reducing
violent
crime
and
that
study
identified
lost
property
tax
revenue
as
the
single
largest
source
of
potential
savings
for
municipalities.
L
The
analysis
was
able
to
use
a
statistical
model
to
isolate
the
effect
of
homicide
on
housing
prices
in
their
immediate
neighborhood
of
the
homicide,
and
the
analysis
found
that
homicides
have
a
sizable
effect
on
nearby
sale,
sale
prices.
Each
homicide
lowers
the
sale
price
of
a
home
by
about
2.3
percent.
In
the
immediate
neighborhood,
therefore,
you
know
a
reduction
of
one
homicide
would
then
be
associated
with
a
corresponding
2.3
percent
increase
in
sale
prices
and
at
the
time
the
analysis
was
conducted
when
the
city
was
experiencing
about
350
homicides
annually.
L
Additionally,
our
report
highlighted
the
the
secondary
economic
effects
of
reducing
homicides,
including
reducing
economic
divestment
in
areas
experiencing
higher
levels
of
gun,
violence,
job
losses,
depopulation
and
the
most
disadvantaged
neighborhoods
in
the
city,
all
of
which
have
an
effect
and
an
impact
on
Philadelphia's
tax
base.
To
support
our
analysis,
the
controller's
office
sought,
input
and
review
from
experts
in
in
violence
reduction
and
statistical
modeling
are
are
full
reports,
as
well
as
the
data
and
software
that
was
used
in
the
analysis
is
available
on
our
website.
B
So
this
is
meant
as
a
term
of
endearment.
You
are
the
Geeks
that
I
seek
and
the
reason
I
say
that
is
because
I
think
your
department
is
most
able
to
do.
Modelings
that
can
kind
of
a
lot
of
these
departments
are
so
busy
doing
the
day-to-day
work
that
they
cannot
take
the
time
to
analyze
the
data
to
show
the
impacts
that
aren't
directly
associated
with
their
department.
B
B
The
other
thing
that
I
would
say
that
the
gun,
violence
and
violence
and
crime
in
the
inner
city
has
risen
to
the
point
where
the
business
community
is
paying
attention
and
they're
paying
attention
because
it
impacts
tourism,
it
impacts.
I.
Remember
a
senator
friend
of
mine
said
that
there
was
a
Villanova
game
that
one
of
his
senators
from
out
west
wanted
to
go,
but
they
weren't
familiar
with
Philadelphia
and
the
suburbs
and
said
I
don't
want
to
go
to
the
Villanova
game
because
of
the
violence
in
Philadelphia.
B
So
what
I'm
asking
is,
is
there
a
way
that
the
controller's
office
can
expand
that
modeling
to
take
into
account
some
of
the
Rippling
effects
economically
of
crime
and
and
the
cost
of
it
both
direct
and
indirect
cost
of
crime?
Is
there?
Could
there
be
a
model
developed
to
kind
of
track
it
a
little
better.
L
Yeah,
it's
a
it's
a
good
question.
It's
something
that
we
would
have
to
look
into
a
little
bit
more
I.
Think
one
of
the
reasons
we
looked
at
property
values
is
because
it
was
one
of
the
most
concrete
effects
of
crime
in
terms
of
things
you
can
measure
right
and
we
we
noted
you
know
there.
As
you
said,
there
are
a
number
of
other
secondary
effects,
disinvestments
job
economic
impacts,
so
it
would
be
some
it
would.
L
B
B
B
Somebody
has
to
drop
a
model
where
it
says
that
we
put
a
million
dollars
in
to
this
ZIP
code
million
dollars
worth
of
resources.
Crime
went
down
exponentially
because
of
that
investment.
Let's
make
more
of
that
investment.
We
put
a
million
dollars
over
here
in
something
else,
and
it
didn't
work.
So
we
need
to
adjust
our
budget
investment
because
of
it.
B
L
L
Yeah
I
know
I
I
completely
agree
with
that
and
I.
You
know,
I
think
one
of
the
other
takeaways
from
the
report
was
that,
with
this
sort
of
preventive
investment
that
that
you
would
make
you
know
in
terms
of
violence
reduction
the
because
of
the
wide-reaching
effects
and
impact
that
these
these
things,
these
programs
should
should
pay
for
themselves,
and
they
should,
you
know,
have
a
reinforcing
effect
where
you're
able
to
lower
lower
violence,
but
also
do
it
in
a
way
where
there's
a
strong
return
on
investment
financially.
B
A
A
M
B
M
M
All
right
so,
when
I
asked
sir
for
statistics,
I
know
what
I'll
be
asking
for
and
what
I
would
find
so
sending
me
what
councilman,
Jones
and
Samantha
Williams
and
others
did
such
a
herkling
job
on
the
last
100
crimes
is
different
than
the
violent
crimes
at
service
stations,
and
this
is
recent
history.
So
last
year
we
know
we
had
562
homicides
and
I'm
going
to
say
this
as
a
grandmother,
mostly
black
people,
okay,
I'm
I'm,
not
happy
at
all.
M
So
it's
no
way
you
can
count
the
amount
of
trauma
and
impact
to
just
one
person.
Okay,
you
couldn't
even
calculate
it
for
me,
but
I'm
gonna
try
to
be
cogent
and
calm
and
respectful.
So
car
jackings
has
quadrupled
okay
in
2022.,
69,
gunpoint,
robberies
in
2022.,
17,
non-fatal,
shooting
victims,
and
this
has
really
increased
tremendously
since
2018..
M
So
when
we
talk
about
impact,
you
know
which
ways
how
much
impact
are
we
talking
about?
Who
and
what
that's
just
at
service
stations?
Okay,
so
I
want
to
say
the
bill
regarding
driving
issues
and
I'm
I
stopped
calculating
all
the
numbers
in
my
head,
so
you
all
figured
out.
You
got
more
staff
to
help.
You
know
what
I'm
talking
about
that
driving,
while
black
or
whatever
it's
called,
should
be
repealed.
Okay,
so
we
could
get
some
of
this
mess
under
control.
So
there's!
No!
M
You
don't
have
a
calculator
big
enough
to
calculate
the
impact,
the
psychological
warfare,
our
seniors
and
I.
Don't
know
if
they're
telling
you
all
this
but
I'm
here
to
tell
you
are
afraid
to
go
out
in
the
daytime
afraid
to
be
out
in
Open
Spaces.
You
know
they're
claiming
crimes
that
didn't
happen
yet
so
that's
like
in
their
heads,
based
on
the
conditions
in
our
community
I,
was
at
a
forum
on
Saturday
about
tourism.
M
M
I
saw
the
report
about
a
former
deputy
sheriff.
I
know
you've
all
been
pretty
quiet
about
that.
You
know
when
I
say,
trace
the
Firearms,
that's
what
we
were
talking
about
and
they
were
able
to
trace
them
right
away
because
of
what
happened
in
Roxboro
at
Roxboro
High
unfortunate
situation.
We
can't
allow
these
things
to
fester
and
then
things
like
that
happen.
So,
let's
start
with
our
children,
that's
already
illegal.
M
We
don't
have
to
create
another
law,
not
one
other
law,
to
get
a
Firearms
who's
responsible
for
that
ATF
FBI,
whoever
you
know,
people
keep
asking
about
the
National
Guard.
They
only
protect
property,
let's
get
to
the
bottom
of
it.
Who
is
responsible
for
firearms
and
children,
children,
okay,
because
that's
what
we're
working
with
here.
Anyone
under
18
is
already
the
law
in
Pennsylvania.
So,
let's
not
you
know
change
the
Professional
Licensing
Laws,
but
you
all
can't
get
to
the
laws.
M
That's
already
on
the
books,
I
see
some
racism
and
crime
fighting
because
of
children
of
another
persuasion,
color
we're
running
around
with
Firearms.
Something
would
be
done
immediately
and
we
know
that.
So,
let's
do
something
about
it.
I'm
up
here
in
the
22nd
District.
Please
can
I
get
some
of
you
at
large
people's
attention
up
here
to
what's
going
on
in
this
22nd
district
meetings
here
meetings
there
new
captain
blah
blah
blah,
but
we
still
are
mixed
up
in
between
you
know
it's
a
lot
going
on.
M
We
need
some
of
your
attention
up
here
to
help
our
council
president
out
figure
this
out.
Since
we
can't
seem
to
figure
things
out.
You
know
we
got
pile,
send
us
up
here.
We
want
them
all
programmed.
You
know,
I,
you
know
what
I
even
wants.
There's
some
radicals.
Some,
let
me
go
with
the
Sovereign
policing
detective.
We
need
more
detectives,
more
crime,
Fighters
more,
a
cyber
intelligence.
M
M
All
this
money
could
be
directed
in
prevention,
okay,
very
much
opportunities
here.
So
once
we
have
all
these
opportunities,
which
we
can
expand
even
more
Temple,
University,
all
the
rest
of
them,
giving
out
all
kinds
of
opportunities
to
get
your
diploma
from
top
to
bottom
training
of
all
kinds,
then
we
want
the
police
to
do
their
jobs,
the
D.A
to
do
their
jobs,
the
everybody
all
the
folks
grabbing
dollars.
Do
your
job.
Let's
see
some
improvement,
I'm
even
going
to
come
up
with
something
real
radical,
because
a
lot
of
these
crimes
are
economics.
M
M
M
Trace
them
Firearms
find
out
who's,
giving
children
firearms,
let's
see
unless
they
put
the
names
up.
We
got
one
so
far,
I'm
sure
that's
not
the
only
one,
let's
find
out
what's
going
on,
allegedly
oops
Lee,
allegedly,
but
they
got
them
red-handed.
So
you
know
what
are
we
talking
about
here?
So
look:
let's
talk
about
how
these
guns
are
getting
in
the
hands
of
these
children.
Let's
talk
about
economics.
M
Every
bid,
Broad
Street
bid
every
Tif,
every
PHA
shovel
ready
project
every
opportunity.
Zone
is
a
chance
to
include
black
people,
black
youth
train
them
work,
their
behinds
and
they'll
go
home
and
rest
instead
of
giving
them
a
gun
having
them
shoot
up
our
neighborhood
and,
having
our
seniors
afraid,
there's
no
way
you
all
can
calculate
that
impact.
We
in
a
psychological
warfare
trauma
get
it
together.
M
You
all
got
the
power
or
get
out
the
way,
otherwise,
y'all
scary,
if
you
always
sit
down
there
in
them
seats
and
keep
seeing
this
mess
going
on,
and
maybe
some
of
you
who
know
of
a
better
solution
and
you're
not
making
it
happen
or
moving
out
the
way
and
let
somebody
else
get
it
done,
because
it's
not
it's
this
black
problem
here,
mostly
black
people,
killing
each
other
with
illegal
guns
given
to
them
by
some
nefarious
situation.
That's
my
testimony
for
today.
Thank
you
all
very
much
for
hearing
me
out.
B
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
and
insight
the
it
was
a
quote
that
said,
the
best
solution
for
gun
violence
is
a
job,
and
it's
to
your
point
of
you
know
trying
to
get
the
offenders
to
to
figure
a
better
way
to
provide
for
themselves
that
maybe
create
an
incentive
for
them
not
to
be
so
engaged
in
the
street
life.
It
is
a
job,
something
we
should
take
a
harder
look
at
and
thank
you
for
your
testimony.
Mr
glass.
B
F
Yeah
I,
just
put
it
in
a
chat,
feature
I
apologize.
I
first
wanted
to
thank
you
for
your
leadership
on
this
issue
and
thank
you
to
all
the
panels
who
came
and
testified
this
morning.
I
think
we
got
some
more
valuable
information,
as
it
relates
to
the
fiscal
side
of
the
violence
problem
that
we're
facing
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia
and
working
with
you
and
other
members
of
council
we've
been
trying
to
tackle
this,
and
you
know,
while
we
may,
you
know,
be
putting
forth
maximum
effort.
F
F
Offenders
as
it
relates
to
some
of
the
carjacking
issues
that
we
have
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
outside
of
that
just
for
clarity
purposes,
while
driving
equality
was
essentially
passed
in
2021.
What
I
think
a
lot
of
people
don't
realize
is
that
driving
equality
wasn't
implemented
into
law
until
2022
so
similar
to
what
the
witness
who
talked
about
driving
equality
testified
about.
We've
seen
a
huge
spike
in
carjackings
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
but
that
Spike
started
prior
to
the
implementation
of
driving
equality.
F
I
also
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
were
clear
for
the
record
that
stolen
cars
can
still
be
pulled
over
a
tinted
window.
Cars
can
still
be
pulled
over
people
who
commit
motor
vehicle
violations
that
are
a
public
safety
hazard
like
speeding
or
running
a
stop
sign
or
turning
the
wrong
way
or
anything
else
that
could
put
people
in
a
position
where
it
could
create
a
certain
danger.
The
those
cars
can
be
pulled
over.
F
We
agree
that
there
are
more
guns
in
the
hands
of
children
than
what
we've
ever
seen
and
when
you
look
at
the
impact
that
the
internet
and
social
media
is
having
on
our
young
people,
especially
after
being
home
for
a
couple
years,
when
you
look
at
this
idea
of
ghost
guns
and
think
about
what
it
means
now
not
just
to
be
able
to
get
access
to
a
gun
easily,
but
to
get
access
to
a
gun.
That's
untraceable
is
completely
changed.
F
The
issue
of
crime
and
criminal
justice,
as
it
relates
to
the
circumstances
that
we're
dealing
with
so
at
the
end
of
the
day,
one
of
the
things
I
always
say
is
we
can't
use
1990
solutions
to
solve
2022
problems
at
the
end
of
the
day.
If
we
all
agree
that
we
have
more
children
involved
in
this
stuff
than
what
we've
ever
seen
in
recent
history,
I,
don't
know
why
we
feel
like
pulling
more
people
over
we'll
put
us
in
a
position
to
be
able
to
address
these
crimes.
F
We
listen
to
problems
as
it
relates
to
cameras.
We
listen
to
issues
as
it
relates
to
the
courts.
We
listen
to
issues
as
it
relates
to
enforcement.
We
know
know
that
we
have
a
gamut
of
problems,
as
it
relates
to
the
crime
that
we
have
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
and
today
we
got
a
better
look
and
a
better
lens
at
the
cost
and
the
fiscal
side
of
it.
So
the
work
continues.
F
I
know
we're
all
passionate
and
concerned
about
the
issue
that
we're
facing,
but
I
just
don't
want
us
to
take
steps
backward
and
create
some
ill-advised
consequences
because
we're
passionate
about
what
we're
going
through
right
now.
So
thank
you.
Mr,
chair
I,
appreciate
you,
I
appreciate
your
leadership
and
I
look
forward
to
continuing
to
work
with
you
and
my
colleagues
to
do
the
best
that
we
can
to
address
the
crime
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
B
So
you
cannot
look
at
the
cause
without
looking
at
the
effect.
Look
at
the
effect
without
looking
at
the
cars
and
we're
going
to
continue
to
work,
and
we
have
to
quantify
what
the
results
are
to
see,
how
much
things
and
doing
good
and
how
much
doing
good
costs
and
because
we
have
to
make
some
serious
decisions
in
the
next
fiscal
budget
about
things
we
want
to
expand
and
things
that
we
need
to
alter
to,
to
create
capacity
to
do
things
that
are
effective
and
that's
the
work.