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From YouTube: Special Committee on Gun Violence Prevention 9-8-2020
Description
The Special Committee on Gun Violence Prevention of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Thursday, September 3, 2020, and recessed the public hearing until Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 9:30 AM to hear further testimony on the following:
170609 Resolution authorizing the creation of a "Special Committee on Gun Violence Prevention" to address Philadelphia's enduring plague of gun violence by facilitating coordination among stakeholders and formulating a comprehensive gun violence prevention strategy.
A
A
A
A
By
continuing
to
be
in
the
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
being
recorded
additionally
prior
to
recognizing
members
for
for
the
questions
or
comments
they
have
or
witnesses.
I
will
note
for
the
record
at
this
time
that
we
will
use
the
chat
teacher
available
at
microsoft
teams
to
allow
members
to
signify
that
they
wish
to
recognize
in
order
to
comply
with
the
sunshine.
The
chat
feature
must
only
be
used
for
this
purpose.
A
Before
the
clerk
call
our
next
witness,
this
is
a
follow-up
to
the
meeting
that
we
hosted
last
week
addressing
the
issue
of
gun
violence,
particularly
with
our
district
attorney
like
kraftner,
our
police,
commissioner,
daniel
outlaw
with
a
specific
focus
on
the
trafficking
and
flow
of
illegal
guns,
gun
crimes
and
taking
a
look
at
how
we're
addressing
the
issue
of
illegal
crimes
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
That
includes
how
they
are
prosecuted
or
how
those
who
carry
and
use
guns
are
arrested.
The
conversation
today
revolves
around
one
eyeball
system.
B
Thank
you
very
much
for
inviting
me
to
speak
today
regarding
gun
trafficking
in
pennsylvania.
As
most
of
you
know,
the
gun
violence
task
force
is
funded
by
the
state
legislature.
It
is
a
joint
state
and
local
effort
that
investigates
the
origins
of
crime
guns
in
the
city
and
also
targets
violent
criminal
organizations.
At
the
request
of
the
philadelphia
police
department,
it
was
created
in
2007
to
assist
the
city
in
fighting
violent
crime.
B
B
Our
prosecutors
are
also
deputized
as
special
assistant
u.s
attorneys,
so
they
can
adopt
cases
in
federal
court
which
brings
enhanced
penalties
and
increased
public
safety
pursuant
to
a
federal
grant.
We
also
have
two
deputy
attorney
generals
assigned
to
the
violent
crimes
unit
of
the
u.s
attorney's
office
and
in
the
first
quarter
of
this
year
they
federally
adopted
13
city
firearms,
prosecutions
in
addition
to
agents
and
prosecutors.
B
There
are
severe
federal
restrictions
in
data
sharing
and
state
law
restrictions
as
well,
but
we
believe
it
is
important
to
compile
and
share
information
where
possible.
That
can
happen.
The
public
and
policy
makers
make
informed
decisions
regarding
illegal
gun,
possession
in
pennsylvania
in
general,
as
city
violent
crime
cases
face
minimal
public
cooperation.
B
B
We
seek
to
have
maximum
impact
for
our
investigations.
Given
our
limited
number
of
agents,
our
office
in
2018
launched
the
kensington
initiative,
which
targets
with
precision
intelligence,
violent
drug
trafficking
groups
that
are
responsible
for
extreme
amounts
of
violence
that
surround
their
drug
operations.
B
These
targeted
complex
operations
are
covert
in
nature,
so
surrounding
communities
do
not
bear
the
burden
of
feeling
over
policed,
but
they
reap
the
benefit
of
safer
neighborhoods
outside
of
the
city.
In
a
separately
funded
initiative,
the
office
of
attorney
general
used
a
blueprint
created
by
gvtf
to
assist
in
the
investigation
of
crime
guns
in
the
other
66
counties
of
the
commonwealth,
because
we
know
crime
guns,
don't
respect
county
borders.
B
B
I've
been
asked
to
speak
about
historical
data
as
it
relates
to
gun,
recoveries
and
other
activity
by
the
gun.
Violence
task
force,
as
we
all
know,
cove,
had
had
a
dramatic
temporary
impact
on
all
of
us
city
services.
Businesses,
schools,
but,
as
our
kensington
initiative
showed,
our
agents
have
adapted
to
the
challenge
and
are
back
working.
The
streets
gbtf
was
able
to
limit
health
risks
for
the
public
and
we
are
on
pace
to
recover
approximately
200
firearms.
B
These
increases
are
due
to
new
leadership
in
our
agency.
Increased
supports
for
the
agents
and
an
emphasis
on
collaborating
with
our
law
enforcement
partners,
including
the
atf
and
the
philadelphia
police
department.
We
work
closely
with
deputy
commissioners
and
chief
inspectors
to
identify
violent
organizations
that
are
appropriate
for
state
resources
to
investigate
and
prosecute
in
2019
police.
Commissioner
outlaw
talked
about
guns
recovered
in
2020..
You've
asked
about
2019
4
288
firearms
were
recovered
in
philadelphia,
55
of
guns
recovered
in
philadelphia
in
2019
were
purchased
in
pennsylvania.
B
That
percentage
tracks
closely
with
the
larger
picture
of
trafficking
in
the
state,
as
approximately
58
of
all
guns,
recovered
in
pennsylvania
were
purchased
in
pennsylvania.
So
that
means
pennsylvania
is
the
number
one
source
state
for
guns
recovered
in
pennsylvania,
meaning
the
majority
of
crime
guns
originate
in
trust,
state
not
from
outside
of
state
borders.
B
B
B
B
Sale
paper
forms
stay
at
the
dealer
once
a
gun
is
purchased
and
are
only
recovered
by
atf
agents.
Once
a
gun
is
recovered
and
the
national
tracing
center
contacts,
the
manufacturer
and
distributor
of
the
recovered
crime
done
so
essentially,
what
that
means
is.
We
are
relying
on
a
paper
form
system
for
federal
crime,
gun
information.
B
B
B
B
B
B
A
B
Essentially,
what
a
ghost
gun
is?
It's
a
gun
without
a
serial
number
and
they're
created
from
the
80
receivers
in
philadelphia,
95
ghost
guns
have
been,
I'm
sorry
were
recovered
in
2019
and
84
have
been
recovered
so
far
this
year
in
2018
there
were
so
few
of
them
that
they
really
weren't
tracked.
So
we've
seen
an
explosion
of
ghost
guns
on
the
streets
of
philadelphia.
B
There
are
more
restrictions
on
buying
a
pack
of
cigarettes
than
purchasing
an
80
receiver.
Last
year,
due
to
this
increase,
there
are
more
restrictions
on
buying
a
pack
of
cigarettes.
I'm
sorry.
Last
year
the
state
police
requested
the
attorney
general's
legal
opinion
on
whether
80
receivers
are
in
fact
firearms
for
the
purpose
of
state
law.
B
Our
office
answered
an
emphatic
yes
and,
despite
an
early
injunction
by
the
commonwealth
court,
the
ag's
legal
opinion
makes
it
easier
for
our
agents
to
aggressively
pursue
felons
in
possession
of
80
receivers.
Now
we
can
actually
investigate
felons
in
possession
of
80
receivers,
which
was
the
harm
that
we
were
trying
to
reduce
when
we
were
watching
convicted
felons
by
80
receivers
at
gun
shows.
B
B
Initiation
initiatives
like
operation
zombie,
which
recovered
35
firearms,
including
the
rifle
that
killed
two-year-old,
nicolette
rivera
with
the
fbi
and
new
jersey
state
police.
Earlier
this
year
and
another
example,
we
worked
last
week
with
montgomery
county
detective,
which
led
to
the
recovery
of
four
firearms.
This
past
monday,
including
an
ar-15
and
a
shotgun
one
of
those
guns,
was
used
in
a
shooting
in
plymouth
meeting
pennsylvania.
B
A
Thank
you
very
much
berlin,
and,
as
always,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
your
commitment
and
your
dedication.
I'm
on
this
issue
being
on
the
front
line
and
aggressively
addressing
this
issue.
Before
we
go
into
questions,
I
want
to
acknowledge
the
presence
of
councilman
curtis
jones.
I
want
to
announce
the
presence
of
councilwoman
catherine
gilmore
richardson.
A
B
Yeah,
so
so
no
atp
is
a
big
component
of
the
working
group
and
members
of
gvtf
are
involved
in
the
working
group
as
well.
So
gvtf
is
half
state
agents
and
half
philadelphia
district
attorney's
office,
so
that
and
the
agents
communicate
on
a
regular
basis
with
the
with
the
da's
and
da's
from
philadelphia
have
been
present
at
previous
working
group
meetings.
So
yes,
no,
both
of
those
agents
agencies
are
very
much
a
part
of
the
statewide
working
group,
especially
the
atf.
A
B
Yeah,
it's
correct,
so
18
agents,
there's
four
supervisors:
the
supervisors
do
sit,
are
co-located
with
the
philadelphia
district
attorneys
that
are
assigned
to
gvtf,
so
they
meet
and
collaborate
on
a
regular
basis.
As
I
said
before,
the
state
agents
cases
are
generally
prosecuted
by
the
philadelphia
district
attorney's
office.
So
there
is
constant
contact
and
constant
collaboration
of
those
individuals.
A
B
So
any
case
it
originates
by
or
is
originated
by,
our
agents
generally
will
be
looked
at
for
either
being
prosecuted
in
the
city
prosecuted
by
state
attorney,
generals
or
prosecuted
in
federal
court.
So
it's
a
a
lot
of
different
factors.
Councilman
one
involves
the
complexity
of
the
criminal
organization.
That's
involved.
B
B
We
don't
have,
there
is
no
solid
number,
there's
no
solid
way
to
track
that
anecdotally.
We
saw
a
large
amount
of
women
that
were
being
arrested
more
so
than
any
other
violent
crime
and
mothers
in
charge
brought
us
operation,
lipstick,
which
was
on
really
on
all
fours,
with
what
we
did
as
an
agency,
which
was
trying
to
find
out
where
the
gun
came
from.
We
knew
that
young
women
were
particularly
susceptible
to
straw,
purchasing
and
oftentimes.
B
They
didn't
have
criminal
records
and
they
could
be
susceptible
to
gun
traffickers
using
them
for
a
myriad
of
reasons.
Some
of
them
are
drug
dependents.
Some
of
them
they
were
victims
of
domestic
violence,
so
we
saw
more
women
conducting
stroll
purchases
than
conducting
any
other
type
of
violence
of
women
conduct
conducting
any
other
type
of
violent
crime.
It
would
be
very
rare.
A
All
right
before
I
turn
over
to
my
colleagues
give
me
an
idea
of.
You
talked
about
the
percentage
of
guns
that
come
from
the
city
of
philadelphia,
the
percentage
of
guns
that
come
from
the
state
of
pennsylvania-
and
I
remember
myself,
councilman
curtis
jones
council
president
daryl
clark
who
some
members
of
atf
we
visited.
The
gun,
show
up
up
at
oaks
and
really
got
a
chance
to
see
firsthand
how
easy
it
is
for
individual
to
purchase
a
gun
are.
A
But
again,
where
are
the
guns
coming
from
like
we
talk
about
our
young
people
and
we
talk
about
the
things
that
they're
engaging
in,
and
it's
always
asked
where
these
guns
coming
from?
How
are
so
many
young
people
are
able
to
obtain
the
level
of
guns
that
we're
actually
seeing?
I
think,
you've,
given
a
comprehensive
look
at
this
issue
from
a
data
standpoint.
A
In
an
operational
standpoint,
I
just
want
to
give
another
deep
dive
in
terms
of
those
stories
that
are
engaging
in
the
illegal
selling
of
gods
and,
most
importantly,
when
we
have
these
gun
shows
and
they
do
come
to
our
state.
How
are
they
modern?
I
do
know
for
a
fact
that
you
have
a
lot
of
young
people
that
go
out
on
like
tiger
county
on
purchasing
guns.
There's
been
some
shootings
up
at
local
universities
that
I'm
very
familiar
with,
but
the
guns
are
purchased
primarily
ghost
guns
in
the
middle
state
of
pennsylvania.
B
B
To
monitor
and
understand,
what's
happening
at
the
gunships,
there's
a
gun
show
every
weekend
in
pennsylvania
and
what
we
are
seeking
to
do
is
use
the
data
to
find
where
the
problematic
gun
shows
are.
Where
are
the
crime
guns
being
recovered
that
originate
from
those
shows?
We
we
can't
do
that
right
now,
as
we
talked
about
with
the
with
the
federal
database
and
the
state
database
extremely
difficult
to
do.
We're
going
to
use
our
analytical
capability
to
find
out
which
are
the
most
problematic
gun
shows.
B
B
A
C
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
Good
morning,
chief
deputy,
I
just
have
a
few
questions.
You
talked
earlier
about
kind
of
increasing
the
degree
to
which
different
agencies
were
participating
in
data
sharing.
Yes,
if
you
talk
more
around
why
an
agency
would
not
participate
and
just
give
us
some
more
insight.
Yeah.
B
B
It's
a
it's
a
it's
been
our
experience
that
when
we
go
and
educate
the
agencies
of
the
particular
need
to
data
share
that
they
are
more
than
willing
to
do
it.
So
just
by
getting
philadelphia
and
pittsburgh
to
data
share
that
we,
we
talked
specifically
about
philadelphia
about
4
000
to
5
000
guns
recovered
in
philadelphia
about
10
000,
recovered
statewide
by
signing
up
philadelphia
by
signing
up
pittsburgh
philadelphia.
B
As
I
said
before
about
5
000
guns
a
year
pittsburgh
over
1
000,
we
were
able
to
see
increase
by
well
over
half
how
many
crime
guns
we
were
able
to
see
in
the
data
sharing.
So
honestly,
I
think
to
the
most
the
the
most
basic
answer
to
your
question.
Is
it
was
education
we
were
able
to
find
out
that
agencies
weren't
doing
it
and
then
educate
them
on
the
process
of
how
to
data
share.
Now
we
are
working
our
way
down
in
a
concerted
effort
of
the
we
hit
the
largest
agencies.
B
B
A
A
But
you
know
our
purpose
of
our
hearing
is
we're
trying
to
get
to
the
root
causes
of
this
issue,
with
some
solutions
and
so
separate
from
recommendations.
I
would
I
would
ask
the
question
from
your
perspective
and
being
a
person,
that's
on
the
ground,
addressing
this
issue
and
you've
been
working
with
this
committee
for
several
years
and
in
your
view,
what
could
we
be
doing
to
address
this
issue
better?
A
There
be
resources,
be
coordination,
be
it
the
enforcement,
but
just
give
me
your
perspective
as
a
person
who's
on
the
ground
and
addressing
this
issue
on
a
day-to-day
basis.
We've
talked
after
hours
as
recently
as
this
past
friday
about
young
people
buying
guns
online,
and
so
I
noticed
the
issue
is
very
near
and
dear
to
me
right
right.
F
A
Me
from
your
perspective,
a
councilman,
you
know
if
we
had
a
b
c
and
d,
this
would
make
our
life
much
easier.
If
we
were
doing
a
b
c
and
d,
we
could
be
more
effective
in
addressing
this
issue,
just
from
your
perspective,
being
a
person,
that's
on
the
ground,
addressing
this
issue
on
a
day-to-day
basis,
and
you
did
lay
out
the
progress
that
we
have
been
making
thus
far
with
initiatives
such
as
e-trace,
which
I
think
is
great
and,
as
I
begin
begin
doing,
a
deeper
dive
on
this
issue.
B
So
certainly
from
our
perspective,
we
have
very
limited
resources:
councilman
we
have
18
agents
and
and
a
handful
of
lawyers
and
there's
5
000
guns
recovered
in
the
city
I
mean
so
we
work
closely
with
the
philadelphia
police
department's
gun
violence
reduction
task
force.
That
also
has
resources
in
the
detective
divisions
and
the
atf,
but
I
mean
just
based
on
those
numbers
alone:
18
agents
for
5,
000
guns.
It's
a
it's.
It's
certainly
a
resource
issue
for
us.
A
So
I
do
want
to
go
on
a
record
of
saying
that
my
colleagues
tonight
we
will
begin
following
up
with
with
governor
wolf,
because
we
know
through
support
from
majority
minority
major
minority
house
leader,
jordan,
harris,
and
I
remember,
senator
williams,
provided
funding
for
the
gun.
Violence
task
force
actually
he's
one
of
the
original
creators
of
the
gun,
violence
task
force,
but
a
greater
push
for
support
on
the
state
level.
A
This
also
we
we
should
be
receiving
support
on
a
greater
level
on
the
state
level
and
we're
also
going
to
be
talking
to
our
congressional
representatives
as
well
to
make
sure
that
everyone
isn't
involved
in
addressing
this
issue,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
impacting
all
of
us
on
equally
across
the
board
and
all
neighborhoods
and
all
zip
codes
on
the
city
settle
city,
state
and
federal
level.
And
so
I
just
wanted
to
know
depth
for
the
record.
A
G
B
So
so
that's
that's
a
tough
question
for
me
to
answer.
There's
certainly
more
there's,
certainly
a
history
councilman
of
a
strong
history
of
haunting
in
pennsylvania
and
we
do
respect
those
individuals
viewpoints
very
much.
So
it's
a,
I
would
certainly
say
from
from
from
working
in
the
city
versus
working
in
the
in
the
counties
there.
There
is
definitely
a
different
perspective
of
of
guns.
I
mean
in
the
city.
B
G
G
B
B
Yeah
sure
so
so,
as
you
will
recall
several
years
ago,
there
was
a
a
very
tragic
case
where
a
young
police
officer
was
killed
and
by
the
name
of
brad
fox,
he
was
killed
using
a
straw
purchase
firearm.
As
a
result
of
that,
the
pennsylvania
legislature
introduced
a
five-year
mandatory
sentence
for
anybody
to
straw,
purchase
two
or
more
fire
firearms.
So
so
there
are,
there
can
be
significant
penalties
associated
with
multiple
strong
purchases.
G
B
G
G
Right,
so
that's
that's
one,
solid
thing
that
we
really
need
to
get
our
partners
at
the
state
and
a
local
level
in
tune
and
cooper,
cooperating
with
each
other.
More
second
thing:
when,
when
you
start
to
get
these
illegal
weapons
or
confiscated
weapons,
is
there
a
pattern
of
the
type
of
individuals
that
are
being
caught
within?
Are
they
your
user
types
dealer
types
distributed
types
who
who
it?
Who
fits
the
profile
of
the
people?
We
are
apprehending
with
these
kinds
of
illegal
weapons.
B
So
so
we
we
focus
less
on
the
end
user.
Philadelphia
police
are
generally
the
ones
that
arrest
those
individuals
with
the
guns
we
work
backwards
and
try
to
find
out
who
purchased
the
gun
initially
and
how
did
it
get
into
the
end
user's
hand.
So
so
any
any
questions
regarding
the
end
user.
The
end
possessor,
which
is
you
know,
certainly
something
that
we
look
at
when
we
analyze
the
case,
but
we
are
more
focused
on
on
tracking
it
back
to
how
it
got
into
the
illegal
stream
of
commerce
and
the
end.
B
G
B
They
so
they're
generally
individuals
that
are
able
to
obtain
guns
via
other
people,
doing
straw
purchases,
so
they're,
usually
people
so
you're.
Talking
about
the
the
general
middle
man
gun
trafficker
is
somebody
that
has
a
criminal
record.
Somebody
that's
able
to
recruit
straw
purchasers
and
as
somebody
that
has
access
to
illicit
funds,
to
be
able
to
pay
to
front
the
costs
of
the
guns
and
then
and
then
and
then
kick
them
get
the
money
back
when
they
sell
the
firearm,
so
yeah
definitely
not
registered
dealers
for
sure.
G
G
B
Sure
so
the
as
commissioner
outlaw
discussed
the
atf
has
a
program
that
is
able
to
use
analytics
from
fired
cartridge
cases
that
are
left
on
the
street
after
a
shooting
and
then
can
link
back
to
a
particular
gun.
So
we
we
oftentimes,
find
that
there
may
be
100
shootings
in
a
week,
but
it's
not
as
if
100
guns
were
used.
Maybe
30
guns
were
used
in
100
shootings,
so
we
do
often
see
councilman
that
a
gun
is
being
used
in
multiple
crimes,
not
just
it's
not
just
a
gun
being
recovered.
G
So,
mr
chairman
data
becomes
good
information
that
creates
good
public
policy.
We
need
to
take
a
data
driven
approach
to
solving
this
problem.
We
should,
and
I'm
calling
for
all
hands
on
deck,
to
look
at
the
last
100
shooters
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
say
and
put
it
up
on
a
spreadsheet
and
say
all
right,
this
individual.
This
was
his
first
use
of
a
gun.
Second
use
of
a
gun,
third
use
of
a
gun.
G
A
Thank
you
councilman
jones,
and
I
know
that
information
has
been
requested
actually
prior
to
us
having
the
last
hearing,
and
so
I'm
going
to
do
a
follow-up
with
the
request.
I
know
I
reached
out
to
the
district
attorney's
office
early
on,
because
you
mentioned
this
during
the
last
hearing
and
so
I'll
do
a
follow-up
and
then
also
see
whatever
partners
have
to
be
a
part
of
that
conversation.
A
I
B
So
I
will
tell
you:
we
are
quickly
ramping
up
our
ability
to
to
to
track
open
source
social
media
to
better
understand
how
items
are
being
trafficked
using
the
internet.
I'll
just
give
you
a
very
brief
example:
we
were
able
to
and
use
social
media
to
convict,
I'm
sorry
to
investigate,
arrest
and
and
detain
an
individual
that
was
selling
dynamite
during
the
civil
unrest
used
to
blow
up
atms.
B
Now,
what's
important
about
that
case,
is
he
also
had
a
extended
magazines
when
he
was
arrested
and
we
were
able
to
link
him
to
a
straw
purchasing
case.
So
essentially,
what
I'm
telling
you
is.
We
were
able
to
use
the
internet
to
advance
an
investigation
that
was
so
successful
that
we
are
now
starting
to
put
resources
in
a
much
more
strategic
fashion
to
address
those
same
issues.
B
I
We
could
do
that
every
day
and
the
conditions
in
kensington
unfortunately
continue
to
be
quite
dire
in,
in
as
it
relates
to
the
gun,
violence
in
kensington,
because
it's
so
associated
with
the
drug
open-air
drug
marketing.
What
what
recommendations
you
know?
I
know
some
of
the
other
shootings
in
other
parts
of
the
city
are
not
necessarily
as
directly
related
to
it.
Would
you
say
that?
I
B
So
councilwoman-
I
I
think
you
know
this
for
the
kensington
initiative.
We've
also
we've
received
a
federal
grant
to
partner
with
temple
university,
to
analyze
how
these
operations
are
conducted,
how
we
choose
our
targeting
area
and
what
are
the
results
of
the
operation
prior
to
the
date
of
enforcement
and
post
date
of
enforcement?
B
Analysis
has
found
that
overdose
deaths
are
spatially,
clustered
nearest
the
most
active
drug
margin
markets,
which
are
also
the
markets
associated
with
the
most
gun
violence.
So
let
me
let
me
say
that
again,
overdose
deaths
are
linked
to
active
drug
markets.
Active
drug
markets
are
linked
to
organizations
that
use
the
most
gun
violence.
B
These
are
the
organizations
that
the
attorney
general's
office
in
combination
with
the
philadelphia
police
department
are
targeting.
These
are
drug
trafficking
organizations
that
we
are
targeting.
So
our
analysis
is
showing
that
we
are
in
the
right
place
targeting
the
the
right
groups,
so
we
will
continue
to
use
the
location
data
of
overdose
deaths
to
help
refine
our
priority
targets
in
the
future.
So
councilwoman.
B
As
you
know,
this
is
very
targeted,
it's
very
specific,
but
this
has
been
a
multiple
year
strategy,
using
data
to
show
where
we
should
be
and
how
to
attack
these
organizations
and
also
to
measure
the
results.
And,
as
you
know,
in
two
out
of
the
three
operations,
we
saw
a
significant
decrease
six
months
post
in
police
calls
for
service
shootings,
other
indicators
that
temple
university
has
tracked.
So
it
is
certainly
our
strategy
to
work
with
the
philadelphia
police
department.
I
Do
you
think
the
the
city
has
been
very
resistant
to
reclaiming
some
of
these
open
air
markets?
Do
you
think
that
that
is
a
wise
investment
to
try
to
reclaim
some
of
these
corners?
I
mean
the
amount
of
open-air
drugs
and
we
know
what
the
foreigners
are
right.
I
can
listen
to
for
you
3133
cousins,
avenue
2800
vote.
Not
you
know
like
the
fact
that
I
can
list
the
10
top
corners
in
in
the
district,
and
we
know
they
operate
daily.
B
Law
enforcement
can
clear
the
corners,
but
we
really
rely
on
the
neighborhoods
and
we
do,
and
and
for
a
long
time
we
were
relying
on
the
resiliency
project
to
ensure
that
neighborhoods
had
good
lighting
after
we
cleared
the
corner
that
there
was
good
lighting
that
the
abandoned
houses
were
taken,
care
of
that
that
the
community
was
heard
and
that
the
community
could
hold
those
corners.
So
so,
as
you
know,
our
our
strategy
in
kensington
relies
heavily
on
not
only
achieving
law.
I
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
I
mean,
and
in
this
post
covet
world
we
we
we
have
lost
all
the
gains
that
we
we
had
in
kensington
and
in
the
last
six
months
it's
just
been
a
third
world
country.
It's
it's,
and
so
I
don't
know
what
happens
first,
you
know.
Is
it
the
removal
of
the
300
plus
unsheltered
active
users?
Is
it
the
taking
over
of
the
corners
right?
I
I
We
need
all
hands
on
deck,
but
what
is
happening
in
kensington
would
not
be
allowed
to
fester
anywhere
else
in
this
city,
and
it
just
outrageous
to
me
that
we're
normalizing
it
and
traumatizing
an
entire
generation
of
young
people
over
there
and
and
the
resilience
project
you
know-
was
not
as
effective
and
we've
called
on.
You
know:
the
restoration
of
cousins
and
cousins
always
had
drugs
right.
I
D
Chairman
johnson,
alan
donald,
thank
you
chairman
johnson.
Thank
you
thank
you.
I
just
want
to
join
in.
I
took
actually
councilman
maria
conan
sanchez.
I
took
a
two-hour
drive
tour
on
thursday
up
kensington
avenue
from
gerard
just
past
allegheny,
and
what
I
saw
there
was
shocking
worse
than
I've
ever
seen
worse
than
I
have
ever
seen,
and
I
would
say
it's
below
a
third
world
country.
I've
never
seen
anything
like
this.
In
my
life,
it's
horrible!
D
What's
going
on
there,
and
so
whatever
I
can
do
we
can
do
we
need
to
support
that
area.
We
need
to
fix
that
issue.
That
is
a
disgrace
to
the
city.
Let
me
ask
you
a
few
questions,
because
it
sounds
to
me
like
myself
and
all
my
colleagues
and
chairman
johnson.
We
all
want
to
find
solutions
to
this
problem,
but
it
sounds
like
most
of
these
solutions
have
to
come
from
the
state,
which
leaves
us
to
a
degree
with
our
hands
a
bit
tied.
D
So
I'm
just
going
to
throw
out
a
few
ideas
and
I'm
going
to
ask
you
chairman
johnson:
can
we
put
together
maybe
a
list
of
policies?
I
know
that
the
vice
chairman
jones
had
some
good
ideas
and
others
have
ideas
that
we
could
submit
to
our
state
people
and
say
look
sign
up
to
these.
Whatever
10
points
20
points
of
changes,
we
need
to
make
to
get
this
under
control.
So
I'm
going
to
throw
out
some
ideas.
Some
of
it
may
be
off
the
wall,
but
I'll
throw
them
out
anyway.
D
D
So
I
also
understand
once
you
apply,
you
can
get
a
gun
in
a
very
short
amount
of
time
of
other
states
lengthen
the
amount
of
time
could
it
be?
I
don't
know
60
days
whatever
45
days.
Would
that
help
the
last
component,
which
is
probably
pie
in
the
sky?
Could
we
require
some
sort
of
educational
component
when
you
purchase
a
gun
so
that
people
understand
this
gun?
This
is
like
a
serious
weapon
or
tool.
D
Could
we
require
some
sort
of
education?
So
it's
just
a
basic
knowledge
of
when
you're
a
gun
owner.
What
your
responsibilities
are.
These
are
just
ideas,
but
I
think
in
general,
chairman
johnson,
if
we
could
come
up
with
whatever
we
think
is
productive
and
get
our
state
people
on
board,
we
probably
can
get
pittsburgh
to
join
in.
Maybe
we
can
force
the
issues
that
way,
because
I
know
all
of
us
want
to
get
this
under
control
and
it
seems
like
we
can't
do
anything
really
locally
in
philadelphia.
B
So
so
councilman
there
are
50
different
states
and
there's
50
different
state
laws.
On
on
how
they
treat
guns.
I
will
tell
you
that
there
are
some
states
that
require
education
when
a
power
farm
is
purchased.
There
are
some
states,
as
you
know,
that
there
is
a
wait
time
to
obtain
a
firearm,
and-
and
you
know
that
pennsylvania
specifically
state
law,
does
not
allow
a
registry,
so
I
do
have
information
on
on
all
of
those
issues
and
we
would
be
happy
to
provide
that
with
your
to
your
office.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
councilman
dom
and
brendan.
Can
you
provide
that
to
the
committee
as
a
whole?
Yes,
information
that
would
be
very,
very
helpful
and
councilman
dom
I'll
also
follow
up
with
you,
because
there
is
some
advocacy
that
we
still
can
do
as
it
relates
to
our
state
legislator,
as
well
as
our
governor
tom
wolf,
as
relates
to
supporting
this
issue
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
brennan.
A
I
just
want
to
thank
you
again
for
always
being
dedicated
your
commitment
as
well
as
attorney
general
josh
apparel
and
the
work
that
he
has
done
in
addressing
this
issue.
You
know
for
me
again,
it's
critically
important
that
when
we
talk
about
all
the
movements
that
we
are
addressing
right
now
in
our
society
and
our
country,
and
we
talk
about
the
issue
of
black
lives
matter,
we
talk
about
institutional
racism
and
we
talk
about
systematic
racism.
A
The
reason
why
tracking
down
the
flow
of
illegal
guns
is
so
critically
important,
because
it
does
exemplify
the
reason
of
why
black
lives
do
truly
matter
we're
seeing
a
level
of
young
people
dying
in
the
streets
of
philadelphia
and
all
throughout
this
country.
On
a
day-to-day
basis,
and
so
we're
aggressively
advocating
and
fighting
for
a
level
of
urgency
when
it
comes
to
not
only
addressing
why
these
young
men
pick
up
their
guns
but
where
the
guns
are
actually
coming
from.
A
So
thank
you
for
your
time
and
your
dedication
and
being
here
today,
because
I
am
asking
when
I'm
inside
my
community,
where
are
the
guns
coming
from?
There
are
no
gun,
shops
and
point
breeze.
There
are
no
gun
factories
and
strawberry
mansions,
which
means
they're
coming
from
somewhere,
and
so
we
appreciate
the
work
that
you
are
doing.
I
remember
the
great
congresswoman
maxine
waters
she
passed.
She
posed
the
questions
some
time
ago,
which
I
thought
at
that
time
was
pretty
bold,
as
relates
to
the
crack
up
epidemic.
A
Where
was
crack
coming
from,
as
it
relates
to
urban
neighborhoods
all
throughout
our
country
and
again
it
just
goes
to
us
single
single,
like
focusing
on
making
sure
that
when
we
address
this
issue
comprehensively
we're
taking
the
tools
that
I
call
that
are
devastating
our
community
out
of
the
hands
of
young
people.
So
thank
you
brendan
o'malley.
Thank
you
for
your
dedication.
Thank
you
for
your
hard
work
and,
most
importantly,
being
sincere
in
addressing
this
issue
at
this
particular
time.
A
Judge
tucker
before
you
give
me
a
testimony.
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
your
patience.
You've
been
on
the
on
this
call.
I
mean
you've
been
on
this
hearing
as
well
as
brendan
o'malley.
I
think
over
the
last
three
days,
and
so
two
or
three
days
well
two
days,
but
we
thank
you
for
your
patience.
We
thank
you
for
being
here
today.
A
Committing
acts
with
guns
and
part
of
this
hearing
that
we've
had
in
the
past
couple
of
days
was
the
issue
around
bail
and
either
the
property
bail,
giving
or
the
lack
of.
So
it
was
critically
important
that
we
have
our
court
system
here
to
give
us
an
overview
on
what
that
process
looked
like
and
specifically
around
those
who
carry
and
use
illegal
guns,
and
so
with
that
being
said,
your
honor,
you
can
start
your
testimony.
H
Well,
thank
you
very
much.
Councilman
again,
the
other
members
as
well
for
allowing
me
to
be
here
again,
you
know,
being
here,
reminds
me
of
growing
up
in
strawberry,
mansion
and
attending
thomas
fitzsimons,
junior
high
school
in
eighth
grade
civics,
where
we're
talking
about
the
three
branches
of
government.
So
it's
it's
not
often
that
the
judiciary
has
the
opportunity
to
come
before
the
legislative
branch
of
of
our
government
and
to
speak,
but
I
really
relish
this
opportunity,
because
this
is
very
important
to
me.
H
H
Their
supervisor
me,
I
do
not
tell
them
what
to
do
who
to
find
guilty
who
not
to
found
guilty
find
guilty
in
terms
of
sentencing
and
and
those
things
that's
left
through
the
discretion
of
the
judge
and
oftentimes.
We
see
complaints
and
it's
mainly
in
the
newspaper,
an
attorney
or
or
the
district
attorney,
may
not
be
satisfied
with
something
that
a
judge
do
and
and
but
there's
a
proper
procedure
for
that
to
be
remedied.
That's
what
the
appellate
courts
are
for.
H
H
Do
we
favor
establishment
of
gun
court
and,
if
so,
what
would
the
recommendation
in
terms
of
structuring
it?
What
ingredients
would
be
necessary
to
ensure
the
success
of
gun
court
if
it
was
revived,
and
the
other
questions
that
are
put
to
me
or
that
were
were
mentioned
mainly
deal
with
municipal
court,
which
of
course
is
under
the
guidance
of
judge,
patrick
dugan?
H
H
and
during
that
time,
the
cases
that
had
a
conviction
of
the
violation
of
a
uniform
firearm
act
as
a
lead
charge.
Now,
when
I
say
the
lead
charge
that
mean
that
that
was
the
main
charge,
those
cases
in
gun
court
did
not
involve
robbery
with
a
gun
burglary
with
a
gun,
it
was
mainly
a
possession
of
a
gun
and
a
person
was
stopped
in
a
car
stop
or
whatever
the
circumstances
may
have
been
now.
H
This
would
encompass
all
risk
of
levels
of
supervision
by
probation
and
there's
various
risk
of
supervision.
Various
supervision
rather
low
risk,
moderate
risk
and
and
high
risk
and
and
individuals
that
were
convicted.
This
would
not
include
individuals
who
had
violent
crimes
oftentimes
and
gone
to
court.
H
This
would
be
done
mainly
by
the
district
attorney's
office
is
determining
as
to
what
program
the
case
should
be
in
now.
The
problem
evolved
when
there
was
a
gun
charge,
but
the
lead
charge
was
say,
aggravated
assault
with
some
other
charge
and
the
gun
charge
was
dropped
in
terms
of
maybe
a
guilty
plea
or
whatever,
and
the
gun
charge
may
not
have
been
the
most
serious
charge.
Now
these
cases
would
not
end
up
in
gun
court.
H
Now,
even
if
there
was
a
let's
say,
a
possession
with
the
intent
to
deliver
controlled
substance
with
a
gun
that
would
not
go
to
gun
court,
so
the
court
in
many
times
would
not
be
comprised
with
defendants
who
were
a
risk
to
the
community
oftentimes
in
gun
court.
In
the
cases
that
I
dealt
with
in
between
the
years
of
2006
and
2007,
there
was
approximately
1500
cases
that
we
dealt
with
and
those
cases
were
mainly
individuals,
first-time.
H
H
H
H
Now
this
may
be
true
that,
because,
when
gun
court
was
disbanded,
many
of
the
defendants
were
classified
as
low
risk
and
they
were
low
risk
oftentimes.
It
would
be
very
little
violence
in
their
background,
the
the
fact
that
they
had
a
gun,
hadn't,
shot.
Anyone
or
anything
of
that
nature
would
allow
them
to
be
classified
as
as
low
risk.
H
H
The
probation
officers
that
I've
spoken
to
believe
that
gun
court
would
be
effective
if
there
was
the
ability
to
identify
those
individuals
with
weapons
or
to
lead
charges
of
violence
where
a
weapon
was
present.
Even
if
the
charges
were
dropped,
the
gun
charge
was
dropped.
In
other
words,
if
a
gun
was
involved,
then
that
person
should
be
in
gun
court.
H
Even
if
the
gun
charges
were
dropped
and
oftentimes
the
those
charges
are
dropped
for
various
reasons
in
terms
of
negotiating
guilty
pleas
or
that
that
particular
charge
may
not
be
as
strong
in
terms
of
the
ability
to
present
it
again.
It
would
only
be
successful
if
the
right
selection
of
the
population
and
all
parties,
when
I
say
all
parties,
the
district
attorney
and
the
public
defender,
would
be
agreeing
on
that.
The
defendant.
H
So
I'm
not
sure
if
that
would
be
a
formal
evaluation,
but
nonetheless
an
evaluation
was
done
and
the
results
indicate
that
there
was
no
statistically
significant
decline
in
the
aggregate
rate
of
before
gun-related
crime
in
the
10
categories
in
philadelphia
in
the
24
months.
After
the
introduction
of
the
gun
court
program,
in
other
words,
once
the
gun
court
started
and
there
was
an
output
of
individuals,
there
was
no
significant
decline
in
the
rate
of
gun
related
crimes.
H
H
We
have
because
of
the
pandemic
and
the
courts
being
closed
in
that
regard,
there's
been
no
preliminary
hearings
until
maybe
a
couple
weeks
ago,
so
there's
substantial
cases
in
the
pipeline
that
has
not
gotten
to
the
to
the
the
court
of
common
police
yet
currently
a
large
portion
of
those
cases.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
68
of
those
cases
involve
one
case
and
that's
the
maurice
hill,
a
case
that
you
may
be
familiar
with
the
individual
in
tioga,
where
there
was
with
shootings
and
individuals
did
not
did
not
expire.
H
H
Also
again,
due
to
the
pandemic
slowdown,
we've
not
added
new
cases
into
the
program
for
the
past
six
months,
since
there
has
been
no
preliminary
preliminary
hearings,
we
fully
anticipate
this
program
to
move
on
and
to
balloon
significance
significantly
once
we
open
the
ports
back
up,
which
we
have
done
today
now
moving
on,
there
is
quite
a
bit:
that's
that's
disturbing.
Just
last
week
alone,
let's
look
at
august
24th
through
august
30th.
H
That
was
last
week,
and
I
get
this
report.
Every
wednesday
and
it's
terrible
it's
so
so
disturbing
there
were
50
people
that
suffered
gunshot
wounds
in
philadelphia,
50
people-
and
this
is
not
this-
has
become
the
norm.
Four
of
those
shootings
were
fatal
now
also
interesting
is
that
ten
of
those
people
were
under
active
probation
supervision
that
suffered
those
gunshot
wounds,
in
other
words,
ten
people,
one
probate
would
have
got,
they
got
shot
and
two
of
those
people
passed
away
because
of
the
the
gunshots
were
fatal.
H
Seven
people
who
suffered
gunshot
wounds
of
the
of
the
50
had
open
cases.
Fortunately,
none
of
them
passed
away.
Now,
when
we
compare
this
to
to
last
year,
it's
it's
it's
astonishing,
but
before
I
mention
those
numbers
commissioner
outlaw
testifying
on
thursday,
I
believe
it
was
that
so
far
this
year
has
been
1334
individuals,
that's
been
shot
and
303
of
those
individuals
passed
away.
H
222
of
those
individuals,
as
a
side
note,
were
on
probation
that
got
shot
and
49
of
those
individuals
that
were
on
probation
died.
So
this
is
basically
what
we're
dealing
with
170
of
those
individuals
had
open
cases
and
34
of
those
individuals
were
pronounced
dead
as
a
result
of
the
of
the
shooting.
Now,
when
we
look
at
last
year,
this
time,
2019.
H
So
the
the
the
problem,
as
I
see
it,
is
that
we
kind
of
know
individuals
who
are
more
than
likely
to
get
shot.
We
kind
of
know,
individuals
who
are
probably
doing
the
shooting
and
and
that's
where
we
get
into
the
various
programs,
focused
deterrence
and
all
those
other
programs
which
I
am
involved
in
on
a
limited
degree.
H
H
H
Just
just
think,
could
you
imagine
diana
ross
or
the
four
tops
singing
any
of
the
lyrics
that
you
hear
commonly
sung
today
or
even
prince
or
michael
jackson,
and
I
say
that
anecdotally,
but
it's
true,
I
mean
our
society
has
changed
so
much.
What
has
become
the
norm
now
would
not
have
been
accepted,
say
20
years
ago,
even
five
years
ago.
So
it's
there's.
H
It
concerns
me
because
these
are
people
of
color,
which
I
happen
to
be,
and
I
sincerely
believe
that
more
effort
needs
to
be
into
it
by
everyone.
I'm
not
pointing
fingers.
I
won't
point
fingers,
but
I
think
that
if
we
looked
at
the
problems
that
we
are
going
through
and
what
our
young
people
are
going
through,
the
schools
have
changed
every.
So
many
things
have
changed.
H
It
involves
our
culture,
education,
the
poverty
level,
there's
no
one
quick
fix,
and
it's
like
one
of
those
ping
pong
things
that
you
know
you
hit
down
on
one
and
the
other
pops
up
somewhere
else,
but
again
collectively
we
we
must
do
something.
I
don't
have
the
answers.
The
court
of
common,
please
is,
is
ready
and
available
to
do
whatever
we
can.
Of
course
we
have
obligations
of
being
impartial.
H
H
I
will
avail
myself
to
any
questions.
If
there
are,
but
that
I
can
go
on
and
on
and
on
and
oftentimes,
I
do
email
or
forward
the
emails
that
I
get
to
certain
members
of
city
council,
as
well
as
other
justice
partners,
because
it's
quite
disturbing
to
see
what
our
young
people
are
doing
to
each
other
oftentimes,
because
the
glamorization
of
what
they
do.
They
learn
from
song
lyrics
videos
and
things
on
social
media,
which
is
just
a
way
at
a
time,
and
this
is
not
just
philadelphia.
A
Thank
you
very
much
honorable
leon
sucker
before
I
turn
it
over
for
questions
from
committee
members,
and
I
also
want
to
acknowledge
the
presence
of
councilman
mark
squilla,
and
I
don't
know
if
some
of
these
questions
we
want
to
ask
should
be
addressed
by
you
or
judge
dugan.
He
declined
to
participate,
but
we
thank
you
for
being
here,
but
I'll
still
ask
some
of
the
questions,
because
some
of
the
issues
revolve
around
the
issue
of
bail
right.
A
It
was
a
very
thorough
presentation
given
regarding
the
bail
system
regarding
something
that
you
even
touched
on
just
now,
and
wrapping
up
your
last
remarks
when
you
talked
about
10
000
people
being
arrested
for
gun
related
crimes,
and
then
you
also
just
mentioned
that
some
of
them
repeatedly
right
that.
That's
that's
the
question
that
a
lot
of
people
are
asking.
That's
the
question
that
councilman
jones
has
touched
on
several
different
times.
A
H
H
To
give
you
a
limited
response,
as
best
I
can
without
delving
into
municipal
court,
it's
my
understanding
that
municipal
court
has
a
process.
A
thorough
process
has
been
in
place
for
many
many
years
in
terms
of
the
way
that
they
select
their
bail,
commissioners
and
and
whatnot.
But
more
specifically,
the
question
that
you
put
in
terms
of
do
the
court
of
common.
Please
judge
have
the
opportunity
to
revisit
the
decisions
made
by
the
magistrate
in
terms
of
bail
decision.
H
H
I
guess
during
the
pandemic,
it
was
initially
thought
that
the
judges
could
just
open
the
the
prisons
and
let
everyone
out
in
essence,
a
petition
has
to
be
filed
for
whether
it's
oral
or
written,
but
something
has
to
be
found,
and
so
that
would
happen
in
this
particular
case.
When
you
ask
the
question:
does
the
quarter
common
police
judge
have
a
chance
to
revisit?
What's
been
done
in
municipal
court
and
the
answer
that
is
yes.
A
H
No,
it
was
positive,
definitely
positive.
I
think
that
it
probably
did
not
go
far
enough
because
in
essence,
what
you
had
is
individuals
who
were
charged
with
possession
of
a
firearm
without
a
license
possession
with
a
firearm
on
the
streets
of
philadelphia
or
a
felon
who
should
not
have
in
his
possession
of
firearm.
H
So
just
those
three
cases,
three
charges.
Rather
what
you
need
and-
and
in
my
estimation,
is
something
broader,
because
in
those
cases
you
usually
do
not
have
the
recidivism
and
so
and
once
there's
a
conviction.
What
you
have
is
the
probation
department,
the
parole
department
involved
and
and
the
manpower
there
which
before
was
funded,
I
believe,
by
a
federal
grant
and
once
that
money
ran
out
it
just
went
away.
But
my
point
is
that
there
was
intense
supervision.
H
H
E
H
Yeah
oftentimes,
the
excuse
would
be,
he
had
a
gun
for
his
own
protection,
which
would
not
be
a
valid
excuse,
but
could
be
understood.
But
to
answer
your
question
did
gun
court
work.
It
did.
Could
it
have
worked
better?
Yes,
if
we
bring
it
back,
will
it
work
better?
Only
if
all
of
the
parties-
and
I
said
the
district
attorney's
office,
the
public
defender's
office-
agree
that
all
cases
involving
guns
would
go
a
certain
way
similar
to
what
we're
doing
in
the
non-fatal
shooting
program.
We're
all
non-state
fatal.
H
Shooting
cases
end
up
in
the
homicide
program
to
show
the
seriousness
of
the
case
dealing
with
the
judges
who
handle
homicide
cases.
The
only
difference
is
that
we
have
a
live
victim
who
may
be
paralyzed
who
may
be
seriously
injured,
but
nonetheless
we
do
have
someone
who
can
give
testimony
as
to
the
the
case
and
the
charges
and
the
weapon
that
was
used
and
the
person
who
did
it.
D
Like
you're
saying
so
that
you
can
see
the
actual
benefits
of
it
and
where
we
are
today
and
and
sometimes
we
have
a
success
in
a
certain
program
and
then
we
sort
of
say
you
know
what
we
don't
need
this
or
that
really
didn't
help,
but
with
something
else
that
they
did
so
forth.
And
so
when
we
start
playing
against
each
other,
I
think
we
need
to
come
back
together
and
to
make
it
work.
D
So
I
appreciate
your
involvement
in
this
and
I
see
your
dedication
and
hopefully
we
could
work
with
the
courts
and
with
our
departments
to
create
another
program
like
the
gun
court
and
maybe
even
community
court
and
some
other
courts
to
really
get
to
the
the
challenges
that
are
at
hand.
And
I
appreciate
your
efforts.
H
Well,
thank
you
very
much
and
again.
This
court
stands
ready
and
available
to
always
sit
down
and
collaborate,
and
if
we
can
move
something
forward
to
eliminate
some
of
this
violence,
even
just
one
one
shot,
one
person
would
be
significant
in
my
mind
when
we're
looking
at
50
people
getting
shot
in
one
week,
it's
it's
something
that
has
to
be
dealt
with.
C
C
I
see
so
I
mean,
certainly
that
leaves
a
lot
of
people
who
were
shot
and
who
were
murdered
that
were
not
on
probation,
but
it's
still
a
glaring
statistic.
So
that
means
that
if
we
would
have
prevented
those
222
people
on
probation
from
being
shot,
our
shootings
would
be
almost
20
percent
less.
And
so
what
are
we?
You
know
in
your
opinion,
what
are
we
not
doing
in
supporting,
or
what
are
we
failing
to
do
and
supporting
people
who
are
on
probation
so
that
this
doesn't
occur?
C
H
Well,
that's
that's
an
excellent
question
and
if
I
knew
the
answer
it
wouldn't
happen.
I
I
don't
know
the
answer
candidly.
The
the
the
problem
is
that
we
we
have
competing
interests.
We
have
individuals
and
again
I'm
not
pointing
fingers,
but
it
becomes
the
the
flavor
of
the
month.
If
you
will,
let's
let
them
out,
we've
got
too
many
people
on
probation
and
we've
reduced
substantially.
The
number
of
people
that
are
on
probation.
We
have
reduced
the
level
of
supervision,
especially
during
the
pandemic.
H
There
was
statements
made,
I
got
with
guess
it
was
the
last
hearing
or
so
that
the
probation
department
was
closed.
That's
not
true.
We
have
not
closed.
The
probation
department
is
working
every
day
in
terms
of
supervising
their
their
clients.
It's
done
by
phone
they're
not
coming
into
the
office
yet,
but
nonetheless
that's
that's
being
done.
So
I
guess
specifically
to
answer
your
question:
should
there
be
more
strict
supervision?
H
H
But
nonetheless,
these
are
the
things
the
competing
interests
that
we're
dealing
with
and
it's
difficult.
If
there
was
one
answer,
one
quick
fix,
I'm
certain
that
we
would
have
done
it
by
now,
but
unfortunately,
yes,
222
people
on
adult
probation
were
shot
and
49
of
those
people
are
no
longer
with
us.
C
And-
and
I
guess
I
want
to
be
clear
that
I'm
not
necessarily
trying
to
make
a
point
that
people
should
have
been
held
in
prison
or
that
all
we
should
be
doing
is
strict
enforcement
of
supervision.
But
it
seems
to
me
that,
since
that
number
is
so
large,
there's
something
that
we
should
be
able
to
figure
out
between
supervision
and
support
that
can
help
to
save
those
people.
So
just
something
for
consideration
for,
for
my
colleagues.
H
A
A
I
know
now
during
the
pandemic,
right
if
the
level
of
probation
and
even
parole,
because
you
can't
do
in
person
direct
one-on-one
supervision,
I
think
it
gives
the
client
if
they
aren't
trying
to
do
the
right
thing,
the
upper
hand,
to
be
upfront
with
you
only
for
the
simple
effect
that
it's
not
the
same
type
of
supervision,
where
you're
coming
in
you
look
at
your
probation
officer,
your
parole
officer
in
the
eye
telling
them
what
you're
doing
with
your
life.
What
are
you
trying
to
do?
What
do
you
need
help
with?
A
A
A
You
probably
couldn't
answer
this
question,
but
but
I'll
still
put
it
out
there
anyway.
Is
there
any
movement
to
do
ankle
monitoring
of
individuals
because
of
kovalev
19,
you
can't
come
in
and
see
your
probation
parole
officers
directly
and
also
the
person
violates
right
now
during
cove
at
19.
Let's
get
the
phone
call
at
home
and
they're
not
there,
and
because
our
court
system
is
the
way
it
is
what
happens
to
that
individual.
H
The
same
thing
that
would
happen
if
their
covet
was
not
going
on
a
warrant
is
issued
and
they're
picked
up.
I
get
a
list
every
morning
of
every
individual
who
was
who
was
picked
up
either
for
a
violation
or
absconding.
So
it's
not
as
though
we're
not
paying
attention.
It's
not
as
though
we're
not
doing
anything.
They
are
checked
by
phone
and
if
they're
not
there,
then
it's
just
as
though
they
did
not
come
in
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
electronic
monitoring.
We're
still
doing
that.
H
We
had
stopped
for
for
a
while,
mainly
because
of
the
inability
to
to
social
distance.
There's
a
lot
involved
in
in
the
electronic
monitoring.
A
person
from
the
probation
department
has
to
go
to
that
person's
house
where
there's
family
before
that,
the
the
the
the
residence
has
to
be
okay,
there's
certain
places
that
landlords
do
not
want
that
in
their
monitors
in
their
house
and
and
their
their
rental
properties.
So
that
has
to
be
cleared.
Then
the
probation
department
has
to
go
out.
H
Look
at
the
the
place
and
and
insert
the
the
apparatus
place.
The
monitoring
on
there
and,
of
course,
back
in
march
and
april,
we
were
all
concerned
about
social
distancing
and
that
type
of
thing,
and
so
no
no,
we
weren't
adding
those
cases,
but
we
found
a
way
to
do
it,
and
I
guess
it
was
maybe
in
june
or
july
that
we
did
begin
again
to
do
new
cases
with
electronic
monitoring.
H
A
A
A
What
do
you
want
to
do,
as
as
as
it
relates
to
standing
on
the
corner,
getting
involved
in
mischief
and
bringing
your
neighborhood
now,
having
not
been
for
him,
saying
well,
wait
a
minute
either
you're
going
to
count
the
birds
on
that
ledge,
kurt
or
or
you
want
to
figure
out
what
you
want
to
do
with
your
life?
Have
it
not
been
for
him?
You
know
in
a
support
system,
obviously
of
my
family,
but
most
important
community
members.
A
It
was
that
type
of
support
system
that
councilman
jamie
air
guardian
is
talking
about,
can
help
a
person
on
probation
to
get
get
involved
in
something
that's
positive,
but
also,
I
also
say
just
because
I'm
a
little
on
the
side
of
making
sure
that
individuals
are
held
accountable,
that
do
not
see
what
we're
doing
as
something
that's
worth.
While
we're
on
this
call
today
they
have
to
be
held
accountable
and
it
could
possibly
save
their
life
in
the
future.
H
Well,
let
me
be
before
that.
Let
me
just
mention
I
agree
with
you
wholeheartedly.
Having
grown
up
in
north
philadelphia
still
visit
there.
I
have
friends
that
I
grew
up
with
who
who
are
in
jail?
It's
no
secret.
I
mean
I
have
grown
up
with
people
who
are
doing
time
and
I
still
I'm
still
in
touch
with
their
relatives
and
they're.
Saying:
look
I'm
glad
that
he's
in
there,
because
if
he
was
out
here,
he
would
be
dead.
H
I
mean
they
know
him.
They
know
his
personality
and
that
type
of
thing
they
file
petitions
in
terms
of
compassionate
release
and
that
type
of
stuff.
But
nonetheless
I
mean
I
agree
with
you
that,
but
for
some
folks
being
incarcerated
they
would
not
be
with
us,
and
I
I
don't
want
to
speak
too
far,
but
it
troubles
me
that
we
went
through
great
lymphs
to
get
a
lot
of
people
out
of
jail
during
the
pandemic
and
I'm
not
sure
what
effect
that
has
on
what
we're
going
through.
H
Thanks
to
her,
and
we
can
say
that
very
proudly
and
as
a
result,
I
believe
there
was
one
individual,
unfortunately
out
of
the
4
900
or
so
individuals
that
were
in
jail
in
march
that
unfortunately
passed
away.
But
getting
back
to
what
you
said.
I
agree
with
you.
I
wish
there
was
so
much
more
that
we
can
do
to
stop
these
individuals
from
killing
themselves.
H
H
A
No,
I
was
saying
that
before
you
make
that
blanketed
statement,
I
think
it
might
be
best
to
do
it
with
statistics
and
say:
listen
since
why
individuals
were
on
state
rule
right.
These
are
the
charges
that
they
had
while
they
were
on
state
road
when
they
were
released
as
a
result
of
the
advocacy
when
people
said
let
them
go
because
of
covert
19.
A
We
know
that
we
had
this
percentage,
we're
locked
up
for
guns.
This
percentage
were
locked
up
for
drug
addiction,
this
specifically
locked
the
retail
theft,
and
we
know
this
percentage
of
individuals
has
been
either
re-arrested
on
gun
charges
or
murder,
as
well
after
the
fact
of
them
being
released.
I
would
just
think
that
if
we
make
that
statement,
it
would
probably
be
best
to
have
some
statistics
to
back.
A
H
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Let
me
first
thank
you,
judge
tucker
for
your
leadership
in
this
regard,
but
also
your
leadership
at
cj.
One
of
the
things
I
found
in
management
is:
when
you
bring
all
stakeholders
to
the
table,
you
can
get
quicker
results
in
processing
data
that
becomes
good
information.
That
becomes
public
policy
by
not
letting
people
point
the
fingers
in
different
directions
and
in
doing
so
whether
it
was
responding
to
the
prison
population
during
coved
or
whether
it
is
dealing
with
a
whole
myriad
of
criminal
justice
reform
issues.
G
I
would
also
then
look
at
challenging
us
to
take
that
a
step
further,
and
what
I
mean
by
that-
and
I've
been
sounding
like
a
broken
record,
is
that
I've
been
hearing
glimmers
of
hope,
glimmers
of
positivity
in
different
aspects
of
your
hearings.
Mr
chairman,
I
hear
a
a
police
commissioner,
that's
not
afraid
to
look
in
the
mirror
and
see
what
she
can
do
better
with
her
department.
I
see
a
district
attorney,
that's
willing
to
look
at
his
own
reflection
and
processes
and
say
listen.
G
G
Let's,
let's
a
reverse
engineer,
and
look
at
that,
because
I
heard
a
little
bit
of
that
today
and
how
did
the
shooters
get
here
at
the
same
point
in
time
committing
this
act
and
if
we
do
that
and
we
don't,
we
don't
point
fingers.
As
you
said
your
honor
and
say
look,
maybe
we
can
do
this
a
little
better
in
the
future
and
for
us
and
city
council
to
take
responsibility
too.
G
G
I
look
back
behind
me,
remember
guardian
and
I
saw
pookie
who
I
went
to
school
with,
who
was
voted
most
likely
to
get
a
you
know,
a
gun
working
for
the
water
department.
I
saw
ray
ray,
who
had
been
the
scourge
of
my
neighborhood
coming
up
like
he
was.
He
was
the
guy.
You
walked
on
the
other
side
of
the
street
from
even
if
you
knew
him
you
walked
on
the
other
side,
but
these
individuals
had
a
job.
G
They
were
now
responsible.
Members
of
society,
baseball,
coaches,
football
coaches,
contributing
to
their
block
and
the
difference
between
who
they
were,
who
they
could
have
been
was
a
job.
So
we
have
a
responsibility
to
create
those
pathways
out.
So
we
can't
just
go
into
your
courtroom
and
say
you
know
what,
irrespective
of
how
you
feed
yourself
and
your
family,
put
that
gun
down,
and
you
know
that's
what's
going
to
happen,
we
have
to
provide
answers
to
the
complexity
of
the
problem.
G
So
what
I'm
saying
is
that,
as
a
result
of
your
hearings,
mr
chairman,
I'd
like
to
narrow
down
to
cases
because
I
heard
a
willing
set
of
stakeholders
to
look
at
a
a
case
study
that
says:
here's
a
hundred
guns,
here's
a
hundred
shootings,
here's
a
hundred
trigger
pullers.
How
do
we
get
here
and
if
we
can
do
that
and
reverse
engineer
solutions,
I
think
that
that's
a
better
a
better
approach
to
just
I
I.
I
can't
hear
thoughts
and
prayers,
I'm
done
with
after
we
get
finished,
praying
and
get
up
off
our
knees.
G
We
have
to
do
some
work.
I
think
this
is
the
level
to
which
we
have
to
do
it.
Thank
you,
member
gartier,
for
almost
being
like
paul,
revere
and
saying
to
the
mayor,
and
the
administration
like
this
is
risen
to
a
crisis
level
that
we
can
no
longer
ignore,
and
the
british
aren't
coming
they're
already
here
and
we
have
to
deal
with
this
in
that
kind
of
magnitude.
H
I
am,
I
am
again
it's
not
only
as
part
of
cjab
but
as
the
supervising
judge
of
the
criminal
section
of
the
trial
division.
Again
it
concerns
me
every
wednesday
I
get
these
numbers,
and
all
I
can
do
is
shake
my
head.
Now
we
had
started
a
program
with
not
a
program
but
a
an
initiative
to
reach
out
to
entertainers
sports
stars
and
whatnot
just
with
a
letter
asking
them.
H
H
H
There
isn't
any
more
fairways,
there's
drive-bys,
there's
drive-bys
and
stuff
like
that.
I
mean
this
is
what
I'm
talking
about,
and
so
in
order
for
us
to
get
on
the
same
page,
we
have
to
find
the
page
right
now
I
mean
folks
think
they're
on
the
same
page
but
and
they
may
be
on
the
same
page,
but
it's
a
different
book.
H
A
A
Well,
first
and
foremost,
I
want
to
personally
again
thank
you,
judge
tucker
for
your
patience.
Thank
you
for
your
commitment
and,
most
importantly,
thank
you
for
your
sincerity
and
your
passion.
It
definitely
shows
that
relationship
your
testimony,
I've
known
you
for
years
as
a
young
public
servant
getting
involved
in
politics.
I
know
the
work
that
you
have
done
mentoring.
A
A
A
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
trauma
going
on
in
our
community
right
now.
So
hurt
people
hurt
people.
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
revenge
killings
that
are
taking
place
because
young
people
are
not
a
cop.
They
don't
know
how
to
process
when
they're
losing
what
they
consider
a
loved
one,
which
is
their
friend
a
lot
of
these
young
relationships
with
our
young
people
start
off
in
kindergarten
and
goes
to
high
school.
A
When
you
lose
that,
when
you
lose
that
loved
one
you,
you
may
decide
to
process
it
in
a
way
that
is
devastating
into
our
community,
and
so
I'm
the
one
that
that
believes
that
it
takes
a
collaborative
effort
all
hands
on
deck.
But
I
will
call
and
say
that
we
do
have
to
have
a
level
of
urgency
and
how
we
address
this
issue.
Because
again
we
do
know
when
we
talk
about
the
issue
of
black
lives
matter.
We
talk
about
the
issue
of
institutional
racism
and
systematic
racism.
A
We
have
to
begin
looking
at
how
we
are
distributing
our
resources,
our
manpower
to
its
that's,
this
very
critical
area
issue.
That's
pretty
much
could
very
well
decimate
another
generation
of
young
people
before
they
even
get
a
chance
to
get
older.
So
thank
you,
your
honor,
and
we
shall
be
on
being
touched
regarding
following
up
regarding
councilman
curtis
jones
request
and
working
with
our
agents,
law
enforcement
agencies
and
criminal
justice
partners
regarding
those
100
individuals
who
are
carrying
guns
from
start
to
finish.
A
A
D
E
D
A
D
J
J
D
J
J
Prevention
is
the
key,
because
once
we
find
that
we
have
some
of
this
madness
that
we
have
in
our
community
than
to
try
to
get
heads
or
tails
or
some
kind
of
clarity,
you
have
the
police
saying
one
thing,
and
then
our
d.a
saying
another
thing
and
then
the
case
can't
get
to
be
packaged
properly
and
it
goes
to
the
judge
or
a
jury,
and
then
we
got
criminals
back
on
our
street.
If
we
don't
know
what's
going
on
on
the
streets,
what
what
the
hell
are
we
supposed
to
do?
J
J
I'm
thank
you
for
writing
the
letter
to
the
atf
and
I
would
love
to
please
publish
make
it
public
what
your
results
are,
because
it's
no
way
in
hell
that
we
should
accept
what's
going
on
in
our
towns
when
we
see
a
surveillance
tape
of
what's
going
on.
This
is
just
something
wrong
here
where
humans
are
killing
each
other
like
manchurian
candidates.
J
You
know
like
we're
under
some
spell
or
something
there's
black
men
and
and
now
they're
spilling
their
bullets
all
over
our
community,
killing
women
and
children.
You
know
come
on,
you
all
come
on
we're
listening
here
and
I
want
to
say
you
know
that
old
statement
lies
lies
and
damn
statistics,
because
it's
not
making
any
sense.
For
instance,
here
in
north
philly
we
have
four
law
enforcement,
so
we're
asking
the
question:
are
we
being
overpoliced?
J
F
B
B
J
J
You
know
that
we're
not
coming
up
with
a
better
agenda
and
a
direction
than
we
have
a
task
force
at
this
late
date.
Please
don't
put
the
usual.
You
know
the
same
folk
on
I've
been
hearing
people
with
a
lot
of
experience,
but
you're
still
telling
me
we
can't
figure
it
out
by
the
time
these
cases
are
presented.
J
I
was
totally
taken
aback
and
quite
surprised
that
supposedly,
according
to
the
d.a
statistics,
these
are
not
repeat
offenders.
These
are
not
people
known
to
law
enforcement.
I
know
the
police
are
saying
some
other
things.
I
would
tend
to
agree
with
them,
but
how
on
earth
could
those
statistics
be
correct?
J
When
then,
then,
if
they
are
correct,
let's
say
they
are
correct,
then
how
or
who
are
these
people
there?
Now
who
are
these
new
perpetrators?
Who
are
these
people
so
with
that?
I'm
gonna
just
beg
for
prevention
in
north
central
and
then
you
know,
I
know
you
all
cutting
up
based
on
divisions
and
and
police
district
doing
one
thing
here
and
one
thing
that
we
want
prevention
all
around.
J
J
A
Thank
you
very
much
robinson
and
just
wanted
to
state
for
the
record
that
the
sole
focus
of
this
hearing
over
the
last
two
days
were
specifically
around.
Where
are
the
guns
coming
from
the
illegal
trafficking
of
guns
in
the
city
of
philadelphia?
How
people
are
arrested,
who
are
carrying
and
using
guns,
as
well
as
how
people
are
prosecuted,
and
we
have
also
made
sure
that
the
tracking
and
the
tracing
of
guns
were
part
of
the
letter
to
our
tobacco
firearms?
And
we
did
we
see
the
preliminary
response
from
them.
A
However,
we're
still
waiting
for
a
comprehensive
investigative
report
on
gun
crimes
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
but
thank
you
very
much
peter
through
their
problems
and
for
always
being
passionate
and
on
the
front
line
at
this
particular
time.
Going
to
ask
the
question.
Please
call
the
next
witness.
D
What
I
want
to
do
is
really
just
encourage
and
want
to
celebrate
the
sense
of
cooperation.
It
appears
to
be
happening
because
of
of
all
of
this
emergency
that
we're
in.
I
am
thankful
that
council
va
police
are
all
having
a
sense
of
the
attorney
general's
office
and
the
judges
all
having
a
sense
of
the
need
to
work
together.
D
Black
clergy
wants
to
encourage
that
as
much
as
it
possibly
can
and
is
holding
our
gun
violence
summit
next
tuesday
and
wants
to
make
sure
we
invite
all
of
the
parties
to
be
present.
As
we
continue
this
spirit
of
cooperation,
we
believe
clearly
that
clergy
and
spiritual
leaders
have
a
role
to
play
in
dealing
with
this
gun.
Violence
is
going
on
and
we
want
to
be
active
in
that
participation.
D
D
D
F
Yes
hi,
my
name
is
delany
heidi
and
I
wear
a
lot
of
different
ass
in
the
community.
You
know:
activism,
hacks,
community,
community,
organizing
councilman
kenyatta,
you
and
I
have
marched
side
by
side
together
at
different
rallies,
the
different
and
different
protests.
I've.
You
know,
I'm
I'm.
You
know,
I'm
not
heavy
in
the
community,
but
I
am
in
the
community
and
I
have
been
working.
F
You
know,
working
with
with
different
mentor
groups
like
man,
up
phl
and
other
other
groups
and
working
with
different
organizations
to
address.
You
know
to
look
at
the
issues
of
gun,
violence
and
the
community.
I
I
may
not
specifically
have.
I
know
you
all
were
talking
about
a
specific
bill.
I
don't.
F
F
So
much
not
only
that
right,
I
feel
like
it
has
to
be,
it
has
to
be
in
order
for
it
and
I'm
gonna.
So
I'm
gonna
go
as
far
as
to
say
that
if,
if
someone
would
like
to
hold
an
elected,
an
elected
position
in
city
council,
then
as
mandatory,
it
would
be
mandatory
for
them
to
present
some
type
of
anti-gun
violence
and
this
decision
or
anti-gun
violence.
F
Yeah,
I'm
gonna,
say
initiative
it
will.
It
will
be
like
you
know,
in
other
words,
in
your
job
interview
and
the
city
and
if
you're
running
for
city,
council
and
you're
john
in
your
job
interview,
you
have
to
put
together
a
anti-gun
violence
initiative
for
the
city
of
philadelphia
right
in
order
for
you
in
order
for
any
any
person,
you
know
that
that
wants
to
be
in
city
council
and
hold
an
elected
position
in
city
council.
I
feel
like
that.
F
One
of
the
job
requirements
is
that
they
have
to
put
together
some
type
of
anti-gun
violence,
initiative
or
march
pledge
rally.
I
think
that
you
know
I
mean
there
are.
There
are
other
issues
you
know
that
are
on
the
table
like
poverty
and
homelessness
and
food,
and-
and
you
know
things
of
that
nature,
but
you
know,
given
the
this
seriousness
and
the
emotional
impact
that
gun
violence
has
had
or
is
having
on
the
city
of
philadelphia,
I
feel
like
it.
F
It
needs
to
take
a
a
priority
over
all
the
other
issues
that
are
impacting
the
city,
and
I
just
I
just
feel
like
you
know,
if
you
know
just
maybe
starting
there
will
be,
will
be
a
good,
a
good
start.
You
know
this
is
my
first
time
actually
speaking
at
on
city
council,
so
I'm
a
little
nervous,
but
you
know
that's
that's
my
that
would
be
my
will.
That
would
be
a
solution.
F
D
F
A
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
just
wanted
to
take
a
minute
to
thank
that
young
man
for
his
passionate
testimony.
I
can
only
imagine
how
nervous
he
is
testifying
to
us
issue.
That's
so
important.
So,
first
of
all,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
it.
I
appreciate
his
ideas
as
well
as
the
fact
that
we
do
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
thinking
about
as
many
anti-gun
violence
initiatives
as
possible.
I
know
that
councilman
johnson
has
been
a
part
of
a
number
of
rallies.
E
I
know
council
members
have,
I
can't
speak
for
everybody
else,
but
take
a
minute
to
give
a
shout
out
to
a
lot
of
the
young
people.
Who've
been
leading
the
anti-gun
valley's
anti-gun
violence
rallies
across
the
city
of
philadelphia,
and
I
think,
out
of
us,
we've
been
more
or
less
participating
in
their
events
and
trying
to
support
them
through
our
initiative.
So
I
didn't
catch
the
young
man's
name,
but
I
would
love
to
hear
more
from
if
he
has
any
ideas
or
suggestions
or
initiatives
that
we
should.
E
Mr
chairman,
and
while
I
have
the
mic,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
just
convening
this
conversation
in
general.
I
know
that
it
hasn't
gone
exactly
according
to
schedule,
but
the
content
that
I've
received
and
the
information
that's
been
provided,
isn't
invaluable
to
me,
and
I
think
I'm
hoping
that
it
helps
me
and
my
colleagues,
as
well
as
the
constituents
across
the
city
be
more
effective
as
we
continue
to
fight
not
just
the
coronavirus
pandemic,
but
this
gun
violence
pandemic
as
well.
So
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
And
jihad
is
the
young
man's
name.
We
can
get
you
his
information
and
jihad.
We
also
just
want
to
acknowledge-
and
I
speak
pretty
much
for
for
my
colleagues.
I
know
the
hard
work
and
I
know
how
dedicated
they
are
around
this
issue.
Councilman
jamie
gardier
will
be
introducing
a
resolution
calling
on
the
city
of
philadelphia
to
make
this
issue
a
key
priority,
making
it
a
state
of
emergency,
we're
saying
we're
addressing
the
opioid
crisis,
the
same
way
we're
addressing
covet
19.
A
D
A
D
A
A
This
will
not
be
the
last
thing
that
we
will
have.
I
just
want
to
also
just
acknowledge
that
when
we
have
these
meetings-
and
we
have
these
hearings-
it's
also
about
transparency
and
accountability,
and
I
do
know
for
a
fact
that,
by
having
these
hearings
by
bringing
all
the
stakeholders
to
the
table
by
making
sure
that
we're
working
again
with
the
level
of
transparency
and
accountability,
it
puts
all
individuals,
including
ourselves,
as
elected
officials,
on
the
front
line
when
it
comes
to
making
sure
we're
doing
everything
that's
possible.
A
In
addressing
these
issues
and,
most
importantly,
the
public
can
see
where
their
gaps
are.
What
we
aren't
doing,
what
we
should
be
doing
and
how
we
can
improve
upon
addressing
this
issue
of
gun
violence.
So
again,
I
think
everyone
for
their
dedication
with
that
being
said.
This
concludes
the
special
committee
on
gun
violence.
Thank
you
very
much
be
safe.
Everyone.