►
Description
Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - September 03, 2020
A
A
To
start
with,
we'll
read
the
statement
from
the
legislature
in
our
legal
council
I
kenton
peter's
salt
lake
city,
historic
landmarks.
Commission's
share
hereby
determined
that
conducting
the
salt
lake
city,
historic
landmarks
commission
meeting
at
an
anchorage
location
presents
a
substantial
risk
to
the
health
and
safety
of
those
who
may
be
present
at
the
anchor
location.
A
The
world
health
organization,
the
president
of
the
united
states,
the
governor
of
utah,
the
salt
lake
county
health
department,
salt
lake
county
mayor
and
the
mayor
of
salt
lake
city
have
all
recognized.
A
global
pandemic
exists
related
to
the
new
strength
of
coronavirus,
sars
cov2
due
to
the
state
of
emergency
caused
by
the
global
pandemic.
A
A
Next,
I
will
read
the
opening
statement.
The
welcoming
statement
welcome
to
the
historic
landmark
commission,
the
historic
landmark
commission
is
made
up
of
citizens
of
the
city
who
are
appointed
by
the
mayor
and
confirmed
confirmed
by
the
city
council.
The
commission
primarily
does
three
things:
one.
We
make
recommendations
to
the
city
council
on
policies
and
ordinances
related
to
preservation
in
salt
lake
city.
A
This
includes
the
designation
of
local
historic
districts
and
landmark
sites.
Two
is
a
certified.
Local
government
provide
input
to
the
utah
state,
historic
preservation
office
shippo
regarding
national
register
nominations
within
the
city.
We
are
also
charged
with
reviewing
and
making
decisions
on
land
use,
applications
for
properties
that
are
located
within
the
historic
preservation
overlay
district.
A
It
is
up
to
the
applicant
to
present
their
project
and
provide
evidence
that
shows
how
their
project
complies
with
the
specific
standards
of
review.
The
planning
staff
is
here
to
let
us
know
why
we
are
reviewing
an
application.
What
standards
we
need
to
use
in
making
a
decision
and
point
out
the
key
issues?
A
Our
goal
is
to
have
a
welcoming
and
safe
environment
for
everyone
to
reach
that
goal.
We
ask
that
those
in
attendance
adhere
to
a
few
ground
rules,
and
these
are
little
change
since
we're
online
here.
Basically,
if
you
as
the
member
of
the
public,
have
something
to
say,
you
can
raise
your
hand
and
ask
the
best
to
speak
through
the
through
our
virtual
portal
here,
please
keep
your
cop
comments
on
topic
and
succinct,
and
we
look
forward
to
hearing
from
everyone.
A
A
D
D
E
F
A
That
motion
to
approve
the
minutes
passes
unanimously.
Thank
you
very
much
next
report
of
the
chair
and
vice
chair.
I
think
it
is
the
chair.
The
only
item
that
comes
to
mind
is
that
I
believe
the
chairmanship
runs
october
to
october
for
next
month.
It
will
be
time
to
elect
a
new
chairperson,
so
please
be
keeping
in
mind
if
you
might
be
interested,
someone
might
be
interested
in
taking
over
from
me.
I've
sat
in
this
role
for
two
years
now.
A
A
Thank
you,
molly
nicholas,
we'll
move
on
to
the
item
number
one
on
the
agenda
is
that's
postponed,
so
we
will
move
to
item
number
two
major
alteration.
Looking
at
approximately
529
south
temple
and
kelsey
lindquist
is
the
planner
of
sergeant
she's
going
to
be
pretty
much
running
her
whole
evening
here.
So
take
it
away.
Puppy.
G
D
D
H
H
H
H
The
subject
property
is
located
on
the
corner
of
south
temple
and
f
street
due
to
its
location.
Each
elevation
of
the
structure
is
readily
visible
from
the
public
way.
The
surrounding
context
includes
a
multi-family
residential
structure
to
the
north
residential
to
the
east
and
commercial
to
the
south.
H
H
H
As
proposed,
or
the
proposed
edition,
is
a
three-story
elevator
addition
to
the
north
of
the
principal
structure,
the
addition
is
part
of
a
larger
ada
compliance
upgrade
for
the
property,
as
illustrated
in
the
enlarged
site
plan.
The
footprint
of
the
addition
is
approximately
90
square
feet
and
can
be
accessed
from
either
the
proposed
ada
ramp
to
the
west
or
a
staircase.
H
This
is
the
western
elevation
of
the
addition
and
includes
a
building
link
as
a
transition
from
the
historic
structure
to
the
contemporary
edition.
The
clock
is
approximately
seven
feet:
11
inches
in
width
and
35
feet
four
inches
in
height.
The
link
will
provide
access
to
each
of
the
three
floors
from
the
elevator
opening
and
the
connection
is
proposed
to
be
clear
glass
with
an
aluminum
frame.
H
The
addition
will
alter
the
third
and
second
floor.
The
first
has
an
existing
door
opening
which
will
be
utilized
as
the
entry
to
the
first
floor
from
the
elevator
edition.
The
second
story
has
a
window
opening
that
will
be
modified
into
a
doorway
for
an
entry,
and
the
most
extensive
alteration
to
the
existing
structure
will
take
place
on
the
third
story,
which
a
new
doorway
opening
will
be
created
for
an
entry
from
the
proposed
elevator
edition.
A
A
B
H
C
E
E
Okay,
put
your
well,
I
can
put
my
cursor
there,
but
if
you
look
very
closely,
the
ballast
trade
was
replaced
during
the
modern
restoration
and
they
could
not
match
the
original
sandstone
on
the
ballast
grade.
Also,
the
column
bases
had
been
severely
damaged
by
weather.
So
if
you
put
your
cursor
kelsey
right,
where
the
balustrade
meets
the
column.
A
A
I
Okay,
first
welcome
council
members,
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
your
time
tonight.
I'd
like
to
thank
kelsey
for
her
hard
work
on
her
and
her
thorough
staff
report.
Presentation.
Excellent,
as
I
don't
know,
if
everyone's
familiar
with
mgsa,
but
we've
been
involved
with
this
poor
present
preservation
for
a
good
part
of
our
practice.
Max
smith
started
happening
over
45
years
ago.
We've
done
many
restorations
along
the
south
temple
historic
district
there.
I
So
we're
quite
familiar
with
what
is
involved
with
the
project
or
a
project
of
historic
preservation.
You
know
on
this
project
we
I
have
reached
out
to
max
max
is
retired,
now
still
dabbles
in
architecture.
He
now
does
that
for
fun,
not
work
anymore,
but
so
he
has
suggested
you
know
staying
in
the
same
context,
so
we
we
sort
of
that's
the
angle
that
we
approached
with
the
exterior
finishes,
but
we
did
take
it
to
a
more
modern
finish.
So
we
take
the
finish
with
possibly
like
dave.
I
I
There
was
a
fire
in
the
building
and
we
had
done
mgsa
had
done
an
extensive
renovation
on
the
interior
and
restoring
it
back
to
the
original
close
to
the
original
plans
is
what
we
could
so
then,
at
that
time
we
did
not
look
in
an
elevator.
It
wasn't.
You
know
there
was
it's
a
pretty
small
footprint
for
the
building
itself.
I
So
we
did
choose
to
elected.
To
put
it
outside
and
with
that
more
contemporary
modern
feel
with
the
different
right
now.
Currently,
you
know
it's
been
34
years,
since
we
did
that
initial
renovation,
we're
going
through
a
full
superior
upgrade
with
materials,
and
so
we
would.
You
know
it
was
a
good
timing
to
try
to
tie
this
project
in
with
that
interior
upgrades,
and
so
the
building
owners
will
be.
I
You
know
the
the
cummings
family,
you
know
they've
been
fully
committed
to
the
historic
preservation
of
all
the
buildings
they
they
do
currently
own
the
whole
all
the
structures
on
the
block.
There
are
13
structures
on
the
block,
there's
seven
commercial
buildings
and
six
mixed-use
buildings,
and
so
we'd
like
to
sort
of
control
that
the
campus
feel
and
presence
there,
and
but
they
have
shown
the
commitment
to
historic
preservation.
I
A
A
G
If
there's
anyone
who's
interested
in
commenting
who's
in
the
attendee
list,
you
can
either
type
your
question
into
the
q
a
section
or
you
can
use
the
little
hand,
feature
which
is
kind
of
the
bottom
right
of
your
webex
screen.
There's
a
tiny
little
icon
there
and
I
see
one
person
and
I
do
have
one
comment
via
email,
so
we'll
go
with
patrick
egbert.
First.
J
J
As
ralph
had
mentioned,
their
families
been
great
stewards
of
the
property
and
they
feel
honored
to
own
a
part
of
utah's
history
and
their
hope
and
desire
desire
is
to
maintain
this
for
generations
to
come
as
as
ralph
alluded,
one
one
testament
to
their
ownership
is
how
they
restored
the
mansion.
After
a
tragic
fire
in
the
1980s,
they
understood
the
historical
significance
of
the
building
and
spared
no
expense
to
restore
it
as
close
to
original
as
possible.
J
Now
as
their
family
has
aged
many
of
their
their
family.
Members
are,
as
I
mentioned,
are
getting
older
and
it's
become
necessary
to
install
this
elevator
just
so
they
can
continue
full
use
of
the
property.
They
asked
us
to
figure
out
a
way
to
get
this
done
and,
as
ralph
has
mentioned,
they've
been
thoughtful
about
the
design.
G
G
A
B
B
You
know
the
same,
because
I
think
it
ought
not
to
be
the
same
and-
and
the
second
comment
from
mr
whedon
concerning
the
the
glass
cladding,
I'm
appreciative
that
the
elevator
was
pushed
away
from
the
the
structure
itself,
as
opposed
to
cheek
up
against
it,
so
that
it
does
provide
a
visual
separation
between
old
and
new.
I
I
don't
have
a
particular
comment
about
the
you
know
what
the
glass
looks
like
if
it
matches
the
building
or
not,
I
think
in
in
the
configuration
shown
in
the
elevations.
It's
obvious,
obviously
new.
G
I
think
historic
buildings
have
been
the
realm
of
just
certain
communities,
and
I
think
this
will
allow
more
folks
to
be
able
to
enjoy
this
piece
of
utah
history
that
is
owned
by
a
group.
So
I
think
that
sounds.
That
sounds
really
good
to
me
and
the
design
has
been
carefully
done.
So
I
think
it
like
meets
all
of
my
criteria.
F
I've
had
the
good
fortune
of
being
inside
the
mansion
once
and
I
remember
it
like
it
was
yesterday.
The
interior
has
has
got
to
be
the
most
wonderful
restoration
projects
in
utah,
it's
just
astonishing,
and
so
there's
no
better
steward
for
this
building
or
the
block
than
the
cummings.
And
you
know
they
would
never
do
anything
that
would
diminish
the
integrity
of
the
building.
C
I
think
I
may
end
up
being
a
lone
dissenter
on
the
materials
I
I
do
kind
of
feel
that
it
should,
you
know,
maybe
stand
out
a
little
bit
more,
and
I
I
from
what
the
the
public
comment
was.
You
know
about
possibly
using,
like
the
you
know,
the
glass
for
the
elevator
shaft
too.
I
thought
that
was
actually
kind
of
an
interesting
idea
where
the
whole
elevator
shaft
with
the
corridor
into
the
building
is
seen,
as
you
know,
as
as
one
piece
overall,
I
think
it's
great.
A
E
Oh
sure
I
was
the
hats
off
to
ralph
and
his
team.
This
is
really
a
classic
solution
to
an
addition
to
a
truly
historic
building,
where
the
addition
is
its
own
mass.
That
is
connected
by
a
very
lightweight
addition,
and
so
the
lightweight
corridor
in
this
case
is
the
glass
corridor
that
attaches
the
building
to
the
elevator
shaft
itself,
and
that
allows
them
to
structurally
isolate
the
elevator
shaft
and
sits
in
its
own
foundation
and
so
on.
E
It
doesn't
need
to
be
the
same
same
limestone,
sand,
pete,
limestone
or
whatever
it
was
as
the
exis
as
the
historic
mansion,
but
I
do
believe
it
needs
to
be
very
close
in
color
and
texture,
because
we
don't
necessarily
want
it
to
stand
out.
We
wanted
to
to
blend
in
with
the
neighborhood
and
with
the
block
and
the
carriage
house,
and
everything
that's
going
on
behind
it
in
the
back
of
the
you
know
originally
to
connect
with
that
very
light.
E
Architecturally
light
glass
element
is,
is
it's
a
classic
architectural
solution
and
it's
been
superbly
executed
here
and
I
I'm
sure
it
will
be
superbly
detailed
and
executed
by
the
design
and
construction
team.
I
can
only
really
add
one
comment.
This
is
a
question.
This
is
for
ralph,
you
don't
have
to
answer,
but
when
is
the
cummings
family
going
to
do
something
about
that
poor
building
on
the
southeast
corner
of
the
block
good
job?
With
this
one.
A
E
A
H
H
The
site
is
located
at
1206,
west
200th
south
and
is
designated
as
a
landmark
site.
The
structure
is
proposed
to
be
adaptively,
reused
and
community
engagement
hub.
The
proposed
alterations
include
modifications
for
that
adaptive,
reuse
and,
let's
just
okay,
so
the
site
is
located
at
1206
watts,
200
south
to
the
north,
or
just
slightly
to
the
north
of
the
mansion
and
the
property
abuts,
the
jordan
river
on
the
west
and
I-80
to
the
south.
H
H
The
proposed
alterations
are
very
similar
to
what
you
view
during
the
work
session
last
month,
minus
the
proposed
coding,
the
anti-graffiti
coding
so
for
the
alterations
to
the
south
elevation.
They
include
the
installation
of
a
new
multi-panel
frame,
transparent
glass
during
the
vestibule,
the
replacement
of
the
existing
carriage
drawers.
H
H
H
D
K
K
Yeah
just
to
preface
that
we're
we're
basically
going
to
try
to
recapture
the
magic
of
our
work
session
last
month.
The
format
will
be
very
similar.
So
we'll
start
with
lewis
kind
of
talking
about
the
grand
vision
that
the
city
has
for
this
historically
essential
property
and
then
I'll
talk
about
some
of
the
architectural
details.
J
Great
thank
you
and
all
right,
hello,
everyone.
This
is
louis
cogan,
I'm
the
director
of
the
salt
lake
city
trails
and
natural
lands,
division
with
salt
lake
city,
public
lands,
the
the
fisher
mansion
and
fisher
mansion
carriage
house
are
located
at
the
nexus
of
the
jordan
river
parkway
trail
and
the
future
terminus
western
terminus
of
the
folsom
trail
to
downtown
salt
lake
city.
J
Recently,
the
city
and
county
spent
over
seven
million
dollars
to
complete
the
jordan
river
parkway
trail
between
the
fisher
mansion
and
north
temple,
which
was
the
final
segment
of
the
more
than
45
mile
jordan
river
parkway
trail
and
salt
lake
city.
Public
lands
is
also
preparing
to
construct
a
new
canoe
and
kayak
access
ramp
to
the
jordan
river
adjacent
to
the
carriage
house,
along
with
several
other
sites
in
salt
lake
city.
J
We're
really
excited
about
the
recent
investment
around
the
property,
and
this
particular
project
is
the
one
that
we
are
perhaps
most
excited
about.
Our
our
goals
here
to
use
this
project
to
activate
this
particular
location
on
the
jordan
river,
with
a
fully
staffed
center
that
invites
members
of
the
public
to
stop
in
and
learn
about
the
history
of
fisher
brewing,
complex
and
the
mansion.
J
Beyond
that,
I
just
want
to
say
that
we
truly
appreciate
all
the
work
that
kelsey
and
the
crsa
staff
have
put
into
this
as
well
as
preservation,
utah
and
local
community
members,
including
nan
weber.
I'll,
give
her
a
little
shout
out
who
have
long
been
advocates
for
the
rest
of
restoration
and
activation
of
this
property.
K
Okay,
great
thanks
lewis,
so
these
were
the
renderings
that
were
kind
of
flipping
through
while
louis
was
talking
were
from
last
summer,
but
they
still
reflect
a
pretty
accurate
picture
of
our
vision
for
the
building,
there's
kind
of
minor
tweaks
here
and
there,
but
moving
into
some
of
the
architectural
details.
I
actually
want
to
start
with
this
section
view
of
the
carriage
house
because
it
gives
a
bit
of
a
spatial
understanding
to
the
building,
so
the
one
on
the
left
is
looking
west.
You
can
see
there's
this
first
floor
used
to
be.
K
So
here
we've
identified
some
of
the
historic
features
and
what
the
plan
is
for
them
I'll
go
through
this
relatively
quickly,
the
the
roof
we're
not
really
doing
much,
though
it
was
redone
a
few
years
ago,
and
it's
in
good
shape.
So
we
don't
want
to.
You
know
affect
the
warranty
or
anything
there,
we'll
just
maintain
it
as
it
is.
K
The
windows
are,
as
far
as
we
know,
they're
all
there
they're
covered
right
now,
so
we
haven't
been
able
to
see
all
of
them,
but
they're
double
hung
for
the
most
part,
wood
windows,
kind
of
traditional.
What
you'd
expect
out
of
a
1890s
carriage
house
they're
intact,
so
we're
going
to
reglaze
them,
sand
them,
repaint
them
and
then
add
interior
storm
windows.
K
They
actually
might
be
exterior
storm
windows
based
off
some
of
the
investigation
we've
been
doing
recently,
but
just
to
get
a
little
bit
of
thermal
value
to
the
windows
under
modern
energy
codes,
with
the
doors
they're
mostly
still
present,
including
in
this
photo.
You
can
see
the
the
kind
of
big
sliding
door,
the
barn
style
door
that
was
between
the
carriage
room
and
the
stable,
where
there
were
horses
for
a
while
there
in
the
building's
history.
K
K
Then
here
you
see
the
conical
red
sandstone,
bumper
there's
the
one
that
is
existing
shown
here
on
the
west.
The
one
on
the
east
is
gone.
We
don't
really
know
what
happened
to
it,
but
we
are
planning
on
recreating
that
with
a
more
modern
material,
probably
cast
concrete
or
something
similar,
and
maybe
using
that
as
an
opportunity
to
for
a
for
a
date
stone
or
a
plaque
talking
about
when
the
building
was
built
and
also
when
it
was
renovated
this
coming
year.
K
K
While
still
you
know
actually
cleaning
some
of
the
gunk
off
of
it.
So
they'll
start
by
just
doing
you
know,
spraying
a
light
spray
and
then
we'll
kind
of
bump
it
up
from
there
we're
thinking,
probably
a
medium
technically
a
medium
spray
with
some
detergent
will
get
it
to
the
level
of
cleanliness
that
we
are
looking
for
and
also
there's
going
to
have
to
be
some
repointing.
K
It
is
still
together,
but
it's
on
the
ground,
so
we're
going
to
put
that
back
on
and
reattach
it
and
then
on
the
north
chimney.
There
is
a
cap
that
also
came
off
so
we're
going
to
reconstruct
that
stone
detailing.
So
some
of
these,
the
sills
are
some
of
them
are
starting
to
spall
a
little
bit
and
crack.
K
K
Roof
soffit
ammodillions
those
will
be
painted
and
refurbished
as
needed,
they're
in
relatively
good
condition,
though,
and
a
note
with
the
paint,
we
will
be
sending
some
samples
out
to
a
lab
to
do
some
painting
analysis
so
that
we
can
really
nail
down
what
the
historic
colors
were
in
the
historic
composition
of
the
paint,
the
dormers
and
cupola.
Those
will
be
restored
to
their
previous
conditions,
so
the
dormers
will.
K
And
then
on
the
interior,
with
the
carriage
and
the
stable
room,
we're
gonna
leave
as
much
of
the
brick
exposed
as
we
can.
It
historically
was
exposed
in
some
of
those
new
rooms
like
the
new
restrooms,
will
further
walls
out
and
provide
some
thermal
insulation,
but
otherwise
we
want
to
leave
it
exposed
as
much
as
we
can,
because
it's
character
defining
to
the
to
the
old
carriage
house.
K
K
The
stairwell
is
in
relatively
good
condition:
we've
talked
to
the
code
official
and
we
might
have
to
do
a
couple
minor
upgrades
just
for
life.
Safety
and
accessibility
will
enhance
with
a
new
handrail,
but
largely
that
will
stay
as
it
is,
and
then
in
those
upper
rooms,
the
plaster's
in
pretty
bad
shape.
K
Actually
it's
it's
crumbling
both
in
the
ceiling
and
in
the
walls,
so
we're
gonna,
pull
that
out
and
replace
it
with
modern
chipboard
that
will
try
to
make
look
as
much
like
that
historic
plaster
as
we
as
we
can
and
then
up
in
the
loft
or
we're
gonna,
add
because
it's
hard
to
see
in
the
photo.
But
right
now
you
can
see
through
some
skip
sheathing
straight
up
to
osb
decking
that
they
put
in
in
the
most
recent
roofing
re-roofing
job.
K
So
we're
going
to
put
some
bat
insulation
in
between
those
roof
joists,
but
also
leave
them
exposed,
leave
the
bottom
of
the
joist
exposed.
So
you
still
get
kind
of
that
look,
but
also
with
some
insulation
and
with
kind
of
a
sound
attenuation
panel
over
the
insulation,
so
that
there'll
be
some
better
acoustics
in
there
and
also
thermal
insulation.
K
Here
are
a
couple
products
we're
planning
on
using
as
basis
of
design
for
the
new
areas
around
that
vestibule.
This
is
a
nanowall
hsw
60,
and
here
you
can
see
the
detail
on
the
left.
We're
planning
where
the
soffit
bead
board
that
exists
now
would
be
at
the
level
of
what
they're,
showing
as
kind
of
a
hard
lit
ceiling.
K
This
is
how
we
envision
that
opening
and
closing
you
can
see
it
should
fit
nicely
behind
the
pile
aster
on
the
left
side
there
on
the
west
side
of
the
opening
when
it
is
open
and
when
it's
closed,
the
intent
is
to
be
as
light
and
transparent
as
possible.
So
it
doesn't
feel
super
heavy
and
you
still
get
that
feel
of
going
in
and
out
of
the
carriage
doors.
K
This
is
the
storefront
system,
we're
planning
on
it's
the
conier
451
ut,
with
one
inch
insulated
glazing,
so
a
pretty
standard
storefront
intending
on
finishing
it
in
a
dark
bronze.
So
it
just
kind
of
blends
in
with
some
of
the
historic
iron
work
around
the
building
and
just
a
few
more
photos
we
took
with
a
drone
over
the
summer.
K
K
Here.
Also,
you
can
see
the
chimney
that
was
damaged
on
the
left,
where
it
will
replace
the
cap,
and
then
this
is
looking
kind
of
the
opposite
from
the
opposite
corner.
The
south
facade
is
on
the
left.
The
east
facade
is
on
the
right
and
you
can
see
here
the
the
main
chimney
which
was
damaged.
It
just
lost
that
kind
of
arched
cap
at
the
top,
which
will
be
replaced.
K
K
G
K
K
We
so
I
don't
know
how
far
we
want
to
go
into
that,
but
the
the
thought
there
is
the
the
city
typically
does
put
anti-graffiti
coding
on
all
of
their
buildings,
and
we
know
that
the
building
will
get
tagged
at
some
point.
I
think
that's
kind
of
a
given-
or
at
least
it's
probable
enough-
that
we
want
to
consider
it
as
a
given.
K
We
we
want
to
bring
the
commission
out
there
as
many
of
you
as
can
be
there,
because
there
are
some
places
on
the
main
mansion
where
graffiti
has
been
removed,
using
the
method
that
they
would
have
to
use
to
remove
it.
If
we
did
not
put
a
coating
on
and
it's
very
obvious
where
it
has
occurred
and
it
it
leaves
kind
of
lasting
damage.
So
that's
the
thinking
there.
G
A
H
H
If
it
would
alter
the
appearance
of
the
masonry,
it
would
create
a
sheen
or
inhibit
it
from
expressing
moisture
so
doing
any
damaged
brick
as
well
and
based
on
that
discussion
and
some
concerns
from
staff
john
and
his
team
decided
to
just
do
some
test
areas
will
take
this
other
part
of
the
proposal
through,
and
so
they
can
apply
for
building
permits
and
then
come
back.
If
they
keep
that
cody
necessary,
we
would
just
bring
that
back
to
the
commission
at
a
later
time.
B
Just
just
just
just
a
comment,
I
I
like
what
john
said
that
if
I
understood
this
correctly
john,
that
there
would
be
kind
of
a
gentle
wash
burst
and
then
and
then
after
that
time,
perhaps
the
the
repointing
would
happen
and
then
a
more
more
thorough
wash.
I
mean
I
I'm
a
little
bit
concerned
that
there's
going
to
be
some
water,
that's
going
to
be
getting
into
the
building,
I'm
not
too
worried
about.
K
K
A
G
G
Late
in
the
year,
2007
ralph
becker,
newly
elected
as
mayor
salt
lake
city,
was
coming
into
the
city
and
county
building,
where
we
can't
see
each
other
now
and
john
spencer
was
then
the
property
manager,
and
he
was
coming
down
the
stairs
and
john
said
to
ralph,
I'm
just
getting
ready
to
surplus
the
fisher,
mansion
and
ralph
said:
don't
do
it.
It
may
have
been
one
of
the
first
unofficial
acts
of
the
becker
administration.
G
I
knew
the
couple
lined
up
to
acquire
the
mansion
and
it
never
was
surplus.
Obviously,
and
the
reason
that
we're
having
this
conversation
with
this
wonderful
proposal
is
because
ralph
and
john
were
in
the
stairwell
talking
to
each
other
at
a
pivotal
moment,
and
it
goes
to
show
what
I
say
often
is
that
some
of
the
best
work
in
the
city
and
county
building
was
done
in
the
hallways
and
we
need
to
get
back
there
as
soon
as
possible.
G
G
B
B
D
D
D
I
would
like
it
to
become
a
place
where
community
can
actually
be
developed
and
grow,
and
I'm
just
gonna
reiterate,
really
really
aggressive
bike,
locking
mechanisms
so
that
we
can
use
our
bikes
here
without
fear
this
that
river
parkway
is
covered
in
people
on
bikes,
and
I
really
really
really
want
to
be
able
to
bring
my
kids
here
and
and
to
secure
our
bikes
while
we,
you
know,
explore
the
river
that
hasn't
been
available
to
us.
So
thank
you
for
the
project.
I
love
it.
G
E
A
E
I
agree
ken
now.
Those
are
good
words.
This
government,
based
on
the
analysis
and
findings
listed
in
the
staff
report
information
presented
in
the
info
we
see
during
our
public
hearing.
Thank
you
to
ms
romer
for
the
great
historical
I
move
that
the
commission
approved
petition
field
nhlc20
2005
online.
A
D
F
A
A
A
B
D
H
Okay,
thank
you.
Okay,
chris
zarick
project
representative
is
requesting
a
material
modification
on
the
vertical
entry
feature
of
building
one
of
the
liberty
square
apartments
located
at
639
east
500
south.
Since
the
initial
approval
of
the
new
construction
in
may
2018,
the
project
representative
has
requested
two
significant
changes
to
both
the
new
construction
and
the
explora
building.
H
E
D
H
L
L
As
as
kelty
chelsea
explained,
the
installation
of
this
material
is
done
by
these.
These
flat,
lock
joints,
and
so
the
top
and
the
bottom
of
the
panel
are
folded
over
and
then
hooked
onto
the
panel
above
and
below
them.
If
the
wall
plane,
of
course,
is
kind
of
an
independent
plane
and
the
framing
varies
a
little
bit
as
the
plane
goes
three
and
a
half
stories
in
the
air,
so
the
installers
both
had
both
had
to
make
those
seams
and
then
bend
in
the
field.
L
Those
panels
around
two
90-degree
corners
to
try
and
get
that
that
horizontal
line
seam
running
across
the
front
of
the
wall
and
around
the
side
and
then
onto
the
back.
The
horizontal
line
was
kind
of
a
major
design
stress
and
and
imperative
throughout
the
design
of
the
project,
and
you
see
that
in
a
lot
of
the
elements
of
the
building
you
know
we
ran
into
another
a
number
of
issues
in
the
installation,
one,
the
and
kelsey.
I
don't
know
if
I
can
share
my
screen
here.
L
We
also
just
couldn't
keep
these
panels
clear,
and
you
know
we
really
pushed
the
installer.
They
replaced
panels
to
the
point
where
they
basically
exhausted
all
of
the
supply
that
they
had,
with
the
exception
of
we
held
back
enough
and
if
you've
seen
been
out
there
recently,
what
we
did
have
them
do
during
the
time
while
we
were
waiting
for
this
particular
meeting
is
install
a
cap
over
the
spine,
which
really
hit
one
of
the
biggest
problems
that
we
have
with
those
panels
you
know
move
forward.
L
L
You
know
we're
still
finding
places
where
you
know
they're
likely,
showing
some
strikes
from
installation
so
that
that's
driving
our
concern.
Our
intent,
then,
is
to
move
to
a
paneling.
This
is
a
this
is
a
hearty
product.
The
artisan
aspire
line,
the
shiplap
shiplap
siding
that
nests
together
and
again
creates
that
really
tight.
Horizontal
reveal
that
was
the
original
design
intent.
L
E
F
E
G
L
L
L
L
You
know
again,
we
the
the
installer
had.
This
was
a
special
order
in
a
special
order.
Color
they
got
in
a
load
from
chicago,
along
with
a
pretty
significant
amount
of
additional
material
for
contingency,
and
we
really
pushed
them
through,
basically,
all
of
the
material
that
they
had
ordered.
Trying
to
you
know,
replace
panels
that
had
strikes.
L
And
you
know
this
is
a
it's
a
22
gauge
thickness
of
material.
If
you
were
to
pick
up
one
of
you
know
we
have
some
metal.
That's
this
thickness
on
site
is
a
fairly
substantial
piece
of
metal,
but
the
the
qualities
of
of
the
aluminum
just
make
it
so
that
it
dense
very
easily,
and
so
our
concern,
of
course,
with
this
being
so
accessible,
it's
right
by
our
entrance,
it's
right
by
a
sidewalk
that
runs
right
here.
L
We
just
are
looking
forward
into
the
future
and
knowing
that
we
don't,
we
don't
think
that.
Well,
we
think
it's
going
to
be
difficult
to
keep
this
looking
crisp
and
fresh
and
new
in
the
long
term-
and
I
guess
that
was
the
reasoning
for
approaching
kelsey
in
the
planning
department
and
talking
with
them
and
then
coming
to
talk
with
you
to
think
about
what
is
the
best
way
that
we
can
serve
the
design
that
we've
put
together
on
this
building
and
do
it
in
a
long-term
fashion.
L
So
that's
how
we
arrived
upon
this,
the
shiplap
siding
here
it
can
be
painted.
It
would
be
painted
in
the
exact
same
orange,
so
the
color
would
remain
the
same.
It
can
be
mitered,
so
it
can.
The
installer
is
going
to
have
a
much
easier
time,
wrapping
that
around
the
wall
plane
and
adjusting
to
you
know
the
thickness
of
the
wall
in
the
exact
place
where
that
panel
is
at,
and
so
that's
our.
I
guess
that
that
kind
of
brings
us
to
it.
E
A
L
Well,
I
you
know
it's
in
terms
of
having
the
pain
that
it
currently
has.
You
know
I
I
don't.
I
don't
know
if
they
could
be
able
to
achieve
the
level
of
shine
that
it
has.
You
know
I
think
in
some
ways,
sheen
is
a
little
bit
of
an
enemy
because
it
really
oil
canning,
but
in
in
some
you
know
vantage
point
since
you're
moving
around
the
building
right
now
it
creates
a
kind
of
nice.
Little
effect
you
know
we
do.
L
We
we've
the
the
architect
has
coming
back
and
and
specifying
the
material
has
specified
the
exact
same
shade
of
orange,
and
so
it's
our
intent
to
as
to
match
the
color.
That's
currently
there
as
much
as
possible,
but
this
was
you
know
this
wasn't
like
a
stock
color
or
anything.
This
was
a
custom
color
that
the
manufacturer
had
to
put
onto
this
metal
so
we'll
you
know
we'll
work
to
get
that
exact
same
shade
onto
the
sman
board.
L
I
mean
I
certainly
would
appreciate
it.
You
know
our,
I
mean
we're
we're
trying
our
best.
We,
we
really
appreciate
the
design
of
this
building.
We
appreciate
all
the
work
that
the
people
on
this
committee
and
and
certainly
our
our
partners
at
the
planning
department
did
in
helping
us
arrive
at
this
place,
we're
very
proud
of
the
building.
We
certainly
want
to
do
whatever
we
can
to
to
make
it
look
its
best
meet
the
design
intent,
but
not
do
something.
That's
you
know
gonna.
A
L
L
If
you
can
see
this
on
a
you
know,
I
guess
these
panels
here.
So
this
is.
This
is
the
panel
that
we
are
to
put
on
it's
unpainted,
it's
unfinished,
so
it
has.
You
can
see
kind
of
the
edge
there
and
that
might
be
a
little
difficult,
but
it
basically
has
a
shiplap
edge
here
so
that
you
know
this.
The
top
side
of
one
panel
can
come
back
into
the
you
know
under
the
bottom
of
the
panel
above
it
and
so
they'll
lock
into
place
above
and
below
them.
L
Kind
of
you
know,
essentially
what
we
were
trying
to
achieve
with
making
the
bends
on
the
metal
panels
is
just
these
are
able
to
be
produced
with
that
with
that
chip
lap
joint
already
in
place,
so
they
lock
into
one
another
and
then
there's
a
mechanical
fastening.
I
believe
that
comes
into
the
into
the
shooting.
L
Well,
I
I
would
have
to
defer
to
omega,
and
I
I
can't
say
that
I
have
the
answer.
Okay,
I
mean
I
I
what
I'll
say
is
that
our
our
focus
throughout
this
project
has
been
to
minimize
the
appearance
of
mechanical
fastener,
and
so
what
you'll
see
if
you
visited
there,
you
know
sometimes
with
more
or
less
success.
C
We
I'm
sorry,
I
actually
have
a
question
jessica:
oh
yeah,
no
words:
okay,
yeah.
I
actually
have
just
kind
of
a
couple
thoughts
that
I
wanted
to
ask
about
because
for
chris
I'm
currently
working
on
a
multi-family
housing
project
where
we're
using
hardy
sighting
and
it
actually
recently
came
up
regarding
outside
corners
and
the
mitered
corners
and
at
least
the
installer.
You
know
that
we're
using
they
were
discussing
kind
of
the
difficulty
of
doing
the
mitered
corners
with
the
hardy.
C
L
You
know
again,
I'd
have
to
defer
to
the
we
have
some
time
here
before
the
end
of
the
meeting
pull
up
an
installation
guide,
but
the
you
know
it's
our
our
hope
would
be
just
like,
like
you
would
be
to
avoid,
because
of
the
tendency
for
it
to
yellow
or
need
replacement
here
over
time.
So
now
how
we've
dealt
with
it
around
the
rest
of
the
project
is
with
batten
joints.
L
C
And
I
guess
the
reason
I'm
just
bringing
that
up
is
just
because
I
know
that
you've
had
difficulties
with
this.
You
know
with
the
metal
installation,
and
I
would
just
hope
that
you
don't
run
into
the
same
difficulties
on
those
outside
corners
just
again
personal
experience,
so
just
something,
I
guess
maybe
to
keep
in
mind
just
to
you
know
really
button
that
down.
C
The
other
thing
was
I
visited
the
site
today
and
I
you
know
we
kind
of
talked
about
the
the
paint
color
and
I
really
liked
the
orange
and
the
sheen
of
it,
and
you
know
I.
I
would
just
hope
that
whatever
color
is
chosen
or
whatever
sheena's
chosen
really
brings
that
you
know
that
lack
of
a
better
word
that
pop
so
it
it
continues
to
stand
out.
You
know
just
not.
It
doesn't
end
up
being
just
sort
of
a
bland
orange.
L
Our
first
attempt
at
this
was
to
look
at
moving
to
a
steel,
and
our
options
were
a
pre-finished
cotta
color,
which
would
have
you
know,
had
probably
a
lot
more
resilience,
which
is
why
we
were
looking
to
move
to
it,
but
also
a
longer
term
performance
on
the
pre-finished
color.
But
it
was.
It
was
just
a
little.
It
was
a
lot
more
dull
than
the
vibrant
orange
that
we
have
on
there
right
now
and
trying
to
paint
it
in
the
field
or
paint
it
after
installation.
L
We
felt
it
was
going
to
fade,
and
you
know
we
were
going
to
be
lucky
to
get
8
to
10
years
out
of
that
paint,
and
so
that
kind
of
precipitated
our
move
to
the
hardy
product
so
that
we
could
have
a
little
more
control
over
the
color
and
long-term
quality
to
get
as
close
as
we
can,
because
I
guess
I
agree.
We
really
like
that
pop
of
orange
on
the
project.
A
A
A
E
I'm
still
thinking
out
loud
richardson
here
there
may
be
other
solutions
to
a
mitered
corner.
You
know
running
a
one
by
one
or
a
half
inch
or
whatever
a
corner
piece
of
metal
down
the
corner,
and
then
I
I
think
I
think
the
design
team,
the
construction
team
can
figure
this
out
it.
It
seems,
like
their
interest,
is
durability
and
longevity,
and-
and
I
I
have
a
confidence
level
that
that
this
will
come
out.
A
G
A
G
A
A
E
A
A
F
G
A
H
H
The
property
is
a
contributing
structure
to
the
avenue's
local
historic
district,
a
status
indicated
by
the
1980
ils
of
the
district
and
confirmed
via
the
city's
2007
reconnaissance
level
survey
update
the
structure
is
a
two-story
victorian.
Over
the
years
there
have
been
extensive
modifications
to
the
structure.
H
The
front
eight
windows
were
replaced
without
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
and
a
building
permit.
The
replace
windows
were
on
the
primary
elevation
within
the
segmental
bay.
The
windows
were
wood,
double
hung
and
were
original
to
the
structure,
the
property
owner
hired
a
company
to
remove
the
windows
and
install
the
vinyl
windows.
H
H
H
The
view
from
2011
indicates
two
wood
encasement
windows
on
the
north
elevation.
This
elevation
has
been
significantly
modified
with
the
construction
of
the
side.
Edition
staff
does
not
believe
that
these
previously
replaced
windows
detrimentally
impact,
the
character
of
the
defining
features
of
this
structure.
H
H
H
It
is
difficult
to
know
the
condition
of
the
original
windows
prior
to
the
removal
and
replacement
inappropriate
replacement
windows
in
the
case
of
original
windows
that
are
beyond
repair
compatible
and
appropriate.
Replacements
are
required
in
the
case
of
the
subject
property.
The
applicant
replaced
original
double
hung
windows
with
fixed
picture
windows
on
the
front
elevation.
H
The
side
windows
were
replaced
with
single
vinyl
single
hung,
vinyl
windows.
Additionally,
the
reveal
of
the
original
windows
was
lost
with
the
removal
and
the
replacement
loss
of
character
defining
features.
The
subject
windows
were
character,
defining
features
of
the
subject
property
generally
when
a
window
is
not
a
character,
defining
feature
or
readily
visible
from
the
public
way.
Staff
can
administratively
approve
a
request
for
repair
or
replacement.
H
F
E
F
A
M
My
name
is
byron,
cannon,
retired
teacher
and
licensed
owner
under
the
landlord
tenant
initiative.
Salt
lake
city
of
the
three-unit
property
at
88
r
street,
due
to
ambiguities
in
our
contract
with
advanced
windows,
product
lack
of
proper
knowledge
on
my
part
and
a
lack
of
any
communication
from
advanced
windows
between
signing
and
installation
work
was
completed
in
november
2019
without
prior
attention
of
a
building
permit.
M
When
the
problem
went
to
the
next
stage,
I
reconfirmed
that
city
regulations
do
specify
that
rental
property
owners
themselves
are
not
permitted
to
pull
building
permits.
That
responsibility
rests
with
the
contractor
undertaking
the
work
in
support
of
this
request
to
submit
with
attention
to
suggestions
for
revisions
that
are
deemed
appropriate,
a
related
application
for
a
building
permit.
M
M
In
addition
to
making
88-hour
available
to
renters
of
modest
means,
we
consistently
try
to
improve
the
property's
physical
and
environmental
standards.
This
fact
alone
responds
to
one
sac's
important
guideline.
Careful
maintenance
and
improvements
to
rentals
in
a
neighborhood
with
very
little,
affordable,
housing
or
modest
renters
quote,
should
be
in
the
city's
interest.
M
M
When
two
windows
became
detached
and
about
to
fall
from
their
frames,
emergency
repairs
had
to
be
made
to
comply
with
the
specific
requirements
of
the
utah
fit
premises
act.
I
sought
repair
or
replacements
from
three
window.
Companies
all
indicated
that
the
seriously
deteriorated
or
missing
internal
working
parts
left
replacement
as
the
only
option,
a
mandate
to
pursue
historic
restoration
whenever
commitment
conditions
permit
according
to
that,
would
have
been
beyond
our
means.
M
It
is
now
clear
that
my
mistake
was
assuming
that
any
repair
required
permit
would
be
obtained
by
the
installing
company,
because
no
further
mention
of
the
question
came
up
between
then
and
the
installation
date.
I
proceeded
without
knowledge
of
my
oversight.
This
mistake
created
the
circumstances
we
now
face.
M
M
M
Finally,
with
respect
to
financial
necessities,
particularly
obliging
owners
of
modest
rental
properties
to
reserve
resort
to
custom-made
limo
windows,
we
believe
we
ever
heard
and
heard
adhered
to
the
guideline
in
part.
Three
of
the
handbook.
Mental
metal
and
vinyl-clad
windows
are
common
on
the
market
today
and
are
suggested
as
replacement
options
by
windows
suppliers.
M
M
M
Certainly,
there
has
been
no
intention
to
create
a
false
sense
of
history
or
architecture.
That's
guideline,
6..
The
same
showed
no
alteration
of
the
original
casing,
which
is
guideline.
Four.
There
has
been
exact
maintenance
of
the
window,
spacing
I.e
the
ratio
of
solid
to
void,
requirement
and
guideline
three
of
the
original
structure.
M
I
do
have
some
pictures
on
another
file
submitted.
I
don't
know
whether
I
can
bring
these
up
showing
showing
yes.
Thank
you
very
much
here.
The
first
picture
on
the
left
is
at
78
2
street.
An
earlier
planning
course
stated
that
inappropriate
window
replacements
were
modified
to
be
closer
to
the
original
structure.
M
Now
the
other
windows
on
page
b
are
examples
of
degrees
of
non-compliance
with
one
or
more
of
the
guidelines
numbered
one
to
six.
In
my
presentation,
77p
in
the
upper
right
hand,
corner
is
a
complete
change
in
windows,
style
86n
on
the
lower
left
hand,
clearly
added
modern
style
windows
under
the
e's
and
finally,
on
the
lower
right,
453
6th
avenue.
There's
a
major
change
in
the
ratio
of
solid
devoid
in
the
facades,
and
I
should
note
that
custom
diagonals
cuts
have
been
added
on
both
one
mansard
side
windows.
M
M
M
A
second
measure
to
provide
more
harmonious
blending
effect
would
be
to
paint
all
facade
windows
themselves,
the
same
color
as
the
surrounding
wood
original
surrounding
wood
trim.
Now
that
is
a
statement
that
I'd
like
to
present
to
the
community
and
thank
them
for
their
patience
and
listening
to
my
rather
monotonous
presentation.
A
A
G
G
I'm
not
seeing
any
sign
if
they're
hearing
me
they
can
hear
you
you're
delayed
a
little
bit.
Okay,
go
ahead!
Okay,
all
right!
Wonderful!
Thank
you
very
much!
Molly
yo
hi!
This
is
cindy
cromer
again,
some
of
the
greatest
risk
taking
in
the
last
20
or
so
years
of
my
life
have
been
inserting
myself
between
contractors
and
historic
windows.
But
I
was
not
involved
in
this
enforcement
case.
G
G
Historic
district
or
not,
you
need
to
have
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
if
you're
in
a
historic
district
and
so
the
direction
to
the
property
owner
to
get
the
permit
was
responsible,
unprofessional
and
who
wouldn't
have
been
able
to
do
it,
even
if
he
realized
that
that
was
the
expectation.
I
can't
do
it.
That's
really
all
I
have
to
add
thanks.
A
A
Now
it
comes
to
an
enforcement
issue.
Why
is
that
window
company
not
being
held
accountable
by
the
city
too?
I
mean
they've.
Presumably
they
have
a
city
business
license
when
an
owner
is
being
called
before
us.
Why
isn't
a
business
license
being
suspended
for
a
contractor
who
has
not
not
provided
the
service
that
they
were
asked
to
provide?
D
This
is
michaela
sorry,
you
may
hear
crayons
being
thrown
on
the
floor
at
the
moment.
They
a
lot
of
times
when
a
contractor
does
something
like
that.
The
only
recourse
is
that
private
property
owner
going
after
privately
signaling
their
contractor
or
if
they
had
a
contract
or
contacting
doppel
and
putting
a
complaint
in
dapple
to
go
after
that
business
owner.
A
A
A
D
E
G
E
Point
is
it,
mr
john
q
public's
problem
to
bring
these
contractors
to
the
surface
I
mean
the
gentleman
that
presented
tonight
showed
us
multiple
projects
that
this
company
called
advance
window
company
or
whatever
they
are
have
done
in
in
the
historic
district
and
and
those
are
probably
other
enforcement
project
properties
that
I
don't
know.
We've
got
clearly
there's
a
rogue
company
here
in
there
that
is
causing
damage
to
our
historic
fabric.
E
D
Conversation
feels
a
little
inconsistent
to
me
because,
when
the
people
who
bought
the
joanne
painted,
we
never
once
discussed
the
painting
company
being
at
fault
for
that.
We
discussed
that
those
owners
of
the
building
knew
that
they
were
in
a
historic
overlay
district
and
should
have
asked
permission
rather
than
forgiveness,
so
it
feels
like
at
best.
D
If
this
is
the
test,
we
want
to
take
and
suggest
city
council
do
something
about
this
cool,
but
we
do
need
to
be
consistent
just
because
it's
a
nice
man
that
was
spoken
to
instead
of
a
corporation
with
the
word
preservation
in
their
name.
This
feels
a
little
off-base
to
me.
This
conversation
brought
that
up
victoria
because
I
think
that
that's
on
point
I
mean
being
at
the
city.
D
Now
I
get
to
stay
at
the
city
for
10
years
I
mean,
unfortunately,
down
in
building
services.
I've
seen
all
kinds,
all
kinds
of
very
terrible
situations
where
people
have
paid
someone,
thirty
thousand
dollars
to
build
a
garage
in
the
wrong
place
and
they
had
no
contract,
and
it
was
too
big
and
it
was
unfinished
at
the
end
of
the
day.
D
That
property
owner
needs
to
my
building
code,
violation
or
violation
of
the
zoning
ordinance,
my
preference
for,
for
I
mean
neither
here
nor
there
for
this
particular
issue.
We
still
have
to
you
know,
figure
this
issue,
but
I
think,
if
we're
going
to
suggest
an
ordinance
adjustment,
I
I
think
that
there
needs
to
be
something
on
all
closing
documents
when
you
are
buying
in
a
historic
overlay
district.
D
That
says
that
I
understand
I
am
buying
something
in
a
historic
overlay
district
and
that
I
will
be
responsible
for
if
this
is
a
contributing
structure
and
here's
you
know,
and
as
part
of
the
documents
that
you
take
home
from
closing,
there
is
a
number
at
the
city
that
you
call
where
you
ask
permission.
Forgiveness
isn't
granted.
B
B
B
So
I
I
I
would
like
to
to
see
some
kind
of
almost
three-way
commitment
that
that,
when
changes
or
or
when
modifications
are
made,
that's
something
that
that
is
on
the
permitting
document.
That's
something
on
the
sales
document
and-
and
I
I
really
I
agree
with
the
you
know-
they're.
If,
if
the
company
has
a
professional
license,
there
ought
to
be
penalties
for
doing
something
that
they
either
know
or
don't
know,
is
inappropriate
in
a
particular
location.
But.
D
This
also
feels
like
something
that
we
could
activate
the
private
sector
for
really
easily
preservation
utah
very
easily.
Could
if
people
know
that
they're
buying
in
a
historic
overlay,
district
and
preservation
utah
has
these
are
the
vendors
who
understand
how
to
handle
this?
Then
you
know:
we've
created
kind
of
a
network
that
there's
a
resource
for
I
permitting
is
already
kind
of
cumbersome,
especially
west
side.
Development
is
really
being
impacted
by
permitting
issues
and
businesses
are
being
so.
D
C
Michaela
before
you
jump
in,
I
I
want
to
ask,
though
I
mean
as
far
as
permitting,
because
if,
when
I
looked
at
this
critic-
and
there
was
not
a
permit
to
replace
the
windows
and
the
city
should
recognize
that
area
in
the
permitting
process,
is
that
correct?
Or
is
that
something
that
could
be
improved
on.
A
F
If
you
have
to
go
to
section
3.4
of
the
window
design
guideline,
which
is
part
of
a
300
page
booklet,
I
just
think
that's
too
much
to
ask
and
the
the
same
exact
thing
is
true
of
the
no
painting,
brick,
it's
it's
just
too
damn
hard
and
and
even
when
you
find
the
right
ordinance,
they're
they're,
written
they're,
equivocal
they're,
not
bright
lines,
so
it
would
be
possible
to
read
all
of
the
applicable
ordinance
and
still
come
away.
Thinking
that
maybe
I
can
do
bond
or
maybe
I
can
paint
this
break.
F
The
other
thing
is
that
there
I,
I
suspect,
that
most
of
the
examples
that
the
applicant
showed
of
vinyl
windows-
I
suspect
I
don't
know,
but
I
suspect
that
most
of
those
were
done
without
permits,
but
there
was
one
that
was
done
with
permits,
which
is
the
tiny
house
on
n
street.
I
think
the
address
is
86
in
those
windows
are
composite
windows,
which
is
a
kind
of
a
form.
I
would
call
it
a
fiberglass
window.
F
If,
if
we're
going
to
allow
composite,
we
ought
to
allow
vinyl
and
I
don't
want-
I
don't
think
we
should
allow
either
one.
So
I
would
suggest
that
we
ought
to
be
tightening
up
and
saying
you're
either
going
to
restore
or
if
it's
absolutely
so
far
gone
that
you
can't
restore.
Then
it's
got,
you
got
to
come
back
with
wood
or
wood,
clad.
F
D
F
E
I'm
not
sure
if
it's
better
or
worse
under
covert,
but
the
permitting
process
is
a
challenge
at
best,
particularly
for
a
homeowner,
but
you
know,
maybe
our
guidelines
do
need
to
have
three
like
cardinal
rules:
thou
shalt
protect
by
masonry
now
shalt
protect,
thine,
historic
wood
windows.
They'll
show
protect,
find
whatever
else,
but
pick
three
and
and
just
put
that
up
in
neon
lights
at
the
front
of
it.
E
D
Pardon
mr
chair,
I
just
want
to
say
something
so
that
the
commission
knows
and
any
of
the
members
of
the
public
too.
Just
during
covid
times
we
do
have
about
10
planners
right
now,
actually
respond
assigned
to
respond
to
these
sort
of
questions
we
from
the
planning
division,
whether
it's
setbacks
or
what
do
I
do
with
my
window?
Or
can
someone
come
out
and
do
a
site
visit,
so
we
are
definitely
absolutely
100
available.
E
D
That's
a
good
point
and
another
thing
I
mean:
I
know
that
that
hard
copy
of
the
design
guidelines-
I'm
not
necessarily
arguing
with
you
paul,
but
on
our
website.
It
is
broken
up
into
chapters.
I
mean
it's
chapter
one.
You
know
doors
site
features,
you
know
windows,
you
click
on
windows,
but
I
I
do
take
your
point
very
thoughtfully
about
the
code
and
maybe
putting
some
prohibitive
language
in
there
and
and
whatnot.
But
unfortunately,
we
weren't
consulted.
We
could
have
gone
out
there.
F
A
A
A
A
B
E
Companies,
I'm
not
sure
if
this
advanced
or
whatever
it's
called,
what
company
it
falls
under
that
or
not,
but
there
must
be
a
vehicle
for
us
and
staff
to
continually
reach
out
to
these
people.
This
is
an
ever-ending
issue.
I've
been
doing
this
for
30
years.
I've
been
on
this
commission
for
almost
two
terms:
it
it's.
If,
for
anyone,
that's
old
enough,
it's
a
record.
J
G
D
D
D
E
H
Commissioner
richardson,
I
think
michaela
was
responding
to
the
idea
of
sending
some
information
to
property
owners
of
these
properties
with
historic
districts
of
the
information
available
and
staff
resources.
You
know
call
us
we'll
do
a
site
visit
we're
here
and
not
necessarily
about
the
conferences.
It's
the
fact
that
our
budget
was
pulled
from
conferences
because
of
covid.
Maybe
we
can
wrap
that
into
some
sort
of
mailer,
but
they're.
There's
a
discussion
around
the
city,
at
least
in
planning,
about
providing,
maybe
a
yearly,
something
so
remind
to
new
property
owners.
A
You
know
that's
a
great
idea
kelsey
coming
up
that
way,
but
I
agree
with
with
the
others
that
we
gotta
hit
the
contractors
too.
There
are
certain
certain
requirements
for
licensing
in
the
different
trades
and
for
getting
a
business
license
here
in
town.
You
know
you
apply
for
a
business
license.
An
inspector
comes
to
your
building.
A
Checks
checks
it
through
somehow
there's
got
to
be
a
way
of
making.
If
someone
wants
a
contractor's
license,
they
got
to
take
off
some
boxes
that,
yes,
we're
aware
of
historic
districts.
Yes,
we're
aware
of
aba
issues
whatever
it
is.
I
think
we
can't
just
rely
upon
sending
a
flyer
to
the
the
property
owners
we
got
to
hit
it
from
both
sides.
B
That
was
exactly
my
point
kim
and
you
know:
there's
there's
an
ownership
responsibility,
there's
a
contractor
responsibility
and,
quite
frankly,
I
think
that
when
a
permit
is
is
applied
for
you
know,
there's
a
city
responsibility
that
that
there
is
a
check
box.
You
know
and
understand.
This
is
a
historic
neighborhood,
yes
or
no,
and
if
you
say
yes,
then
that
means
that
the
contractor
is
responsible
and
and
then
then
there's
a
then
there's
a
hook
to
do
something.
A
B
A
That's
an
excellent
discussion.
I'm
sorry
we
had
to
come
to
this
decision,
but
I
don't
see
we
have
any
choice
again.
Applicant
can
appeal
this
talk
to
planning
staff
if
they
wish-
and
I
will
close
this
meeting
and
see
you
all
on
october
1st.
Thank
you
very
much
staff
commissioners
and
applicants
in.