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From YouTube: Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - August 05, 2021
Description
Salt Lake City Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - August 05, 2021
https://www.slc.gov/historic-preservation/
https://www.slc.gov/boards/historic-landmark-commission-agendas-minutes/
B
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B
B
B
B
B
C
C
C
I
need
not
read
the
covet
statement
as
we've
read
previously.
I
will
note,
though,
however,
that
it's
my
understanding
that
chairman
robert
hyde
has
indicated
that,
for
the
upcoming
meeting
we
will
revert
to
a
a
virtual
meeting
as
the
uptick
in
cobit
19
delta
variant
is
upon
us.
We
do
have
a
quorum.
It
appears
that
david
yuanoski
kenton
peters
victoria,
petro
escher,
david
richardson
and
myself
composed
quorum.
C
C
I
believe,
announcing
or
approving
of
the
meet
the
meeting
minutes
from
the
15th
of
july
meeting
are
in
order.
Is
there
a
motion
regarding
these
minutes.
C
Hearing
none
is
there
a
second
to
approve
the
meeting
minutes
as
written.
C
Very
good,
thank
you,
victoria.
Moving
on
to
a
report
from
the
chair,
robert
hyde.
Our
chair
is
traveling
this
week
and
is
excused.
Therefore
there
is
no
report
as
the
vice
chair.
I
have
no
report
either.
F
Yes,
thank
you.
This
is
nick
norris
planning
director.
I
don't
have
much
to
update
the
commission
on
other
than
to
let
you
know
that
we
are
working
with
the
mayor's
office
on
having
we
have
several
vacancies
on
the
commission,
and
so
we
are
working
with
with
the
mayor's
office
on
getting
we've.
Had
a
number
of
people
apply
so
reviewing
those
applications
and
hopefully
getting
some
appointments
made
as
quickly
as
we
can
and
so
that
we
have
more
bodies
to
get
a
forum.
F
Thank
you
and
second,
the
other
thing
I
wanted
to
touch
on
is
because
this
is
our
first
hybrid
meeting
and
has
many
people
are
probably
well
aware
that
the
covered
numbers
are
increasing
and
have
gone
up
quite
a
bit
over
the
last
several
weeks,
and
so
it's
very
likely
that
we
will
be
shifting
back
to
straight
virtual
meanings
for
the
for
the
time
being,
but
we're
given
that
landmarks
doesn't
have
another
meeting
for
another
month,
we're
not
quite
sure
where
we
will
land
on
that.
F
But
we'll
keep
everybody
posted
with
with
that
as
things
progress
and
we
learn
more
and
and
hopefully
we
start
seeing
some
vaccination
rates
go
up,
but
numbers
go
down.
So
that's
all
I
have
thank
you
very.
C
Good
public
comments:
I
know
that
aubry
sent
a
public
comment
from
cindy
cromer
need.
I
read
that
at
this
time
or
or
is
that
simply
inserted
into
the
meeting
minutes.
B
Thanks
very
much
in
my
many
comments
to
you
and
to
the
city
council.
I've
never
quoted
justin
bieber.
I
think
I'm
pronouncing
his
name
correctly.
I've
never
considered
paying
attention
to
what
he
was
doing,
singing
or
saying,
but
last
week
he
said.
Sometimes
our
nose
are
more
powerful
than
our
yeses.
I
believe
he
was
talking
about
simone
biles.
B
I
had
already
been
thinking
about
some
of
your
outstanding
no's
this
year,
especially
the
one
regarding
the
house
on
almond
street.
That
hearing
was
possibly
the
most
bizarre
public
meeting
I've
ever
observed.
You
were
being
asked
to
deal
with
a
victorian
cottage
with
what
appeared
to
me
to
be
a
new
tough
shed
perched
on
its
roof.
B
Saying
no
is
hard
enough.
When
you
are
likely
to
be
labeled
the
hysterical
society,
it
is
even
harder
when
you
have
to
draft
findings
yourself
digging
into
the
ordinance.
The
potential
buyers
were
ready
to
close
in
a
few
days
and
they
appeared
to
want
this
compromised
property.
Nonetheless,
you
filtered
on
wading
through
comments
from
investors,
gold,
medal,
performances
in
blaming
and
sidestepping
and
the
lack
of
relevant
professional
licenses.
B
C
Thank
you
cindy.
I
I
believe
at
this
time.
Public
comments
will
not
be
taken
regarding
the
thistle
avenue
project
is.
Did
I
understand
that
correctly.
F
G
G
H
Barry
eagan,
I
live
at
250
south
elizabeth
street,
which
is
a
property.
That's
approximately
a
hundred
feet
from
the
festival,
avenue
property
you're.
Considering
I
think,
more
than
anything
I
have
a
question
to
answer
the
residents.
We
have
a
small
condominium,
building
six
units
in
it
immediately
adjacent
to
this
property
and
when
the
notice
of
a
public
public
hearing,
I
believe
it
was
going
to
be
in
june,
came
out.
H
None
of
us
even
received
the
notice
until
two
or
three
days
after
that
meeting
there
was
a
name
on
there
of
a
gentleman
named
nelson,
such
and
such
with
a
phone
number
and
an
email
address.
Multiple
people
in
the
building
have
reached
out
to
him
four
or
five
times
to
try
to
get
information
about.
This
he's
neglected
to
return
any
phone
calls
or
any
emails.
H
So
I'm
here
trying
to
find
out
what
this
process
is
going
to
be.
We
clearly
have
multiple
considerations
for
a
property
of
this
size
being
built
literally
within
tossing
distance
of
our
property.
Is
it
appropriate
for
me
to
voice
our
considerations
right
now?
If
it's
not,
I
understand,
but
I
would
like
to
know
how
I
can
find
out
how
we
can
keep
abreast
of
how
this
process
is
going
to
go
with
this
gentleman
trying
to
get
approval
to
build
on
that.
H
H
F
Yeah,
this
is
nick
norris,
the
planning
director
yeah,
because
this
is
a
work
session
that
and
there
it's
really
a
discussion
between
the
applicants
and
the
landmarks
commission.
There
will
be
a
follow-up
public
hearing
where
you
will
have
the
opportunity
to
to
weigh
in,
and
we
will
ensure
that
we
can
answer
any
questions
that
you
or
your
neighbors
have
during
until
between
now
and
that.
Well,
whenever
that
public
hearing
is
scheduled
and
michaela
who's
in
the
room.
I
I
I'm
nelson
knight
and
I'd
like
to
just
go
on
the
record
as
saying
that
if
I
I
truly
apologize,
if
somebody
didn't
receive
any
callback
or
response
to
any
inquiry
they
had
previously,
I'm
I'm
not
aware
of
any
that
I
didn't
follow
up
on.
Certainly
it
sounds
like
maybe
there
were
to
clarify
the
process.
As
I
understand
this
now,
the
the
project
was
reviewed
in
june.
I
There
was
public
comment
that
was
received
both
written,
and
there
was
testimony
at
that
at
that
meeting
and
the
information
then,
and
the
commission
then
tabled
the
the
the
project
after
the
public
hearing
was
closed.
So
I'm
not
quite
up
on
my
rules
of
procedure,
but
I
think
you
could
reopen
the
public
hearing
if
that
was
the
commission's
vote
and
decision.
H
Yeah,
are
there
any
other
methods
other
than
mail,
where
my
building
can
be
notified
of
this,
or
at
least
by
me,
and
then
I
can
communicate
with
them
the
mail.
The
mail
is
not
a
particularly
liable
reliable
enterprise
any
longer,
but
it
is
unusual
that
all
six
of
other
residents
in
our
building
got
the
notice
on
the
same
day,
and
it
was
two
days
after
that
meeting
had
actually
occurred.
H
So
I'm
not
blaming
it
on
anybody,
I'm
just
bringing
it
up,
as
you
know
what
occurred,
but
we
have
serious
considerations
about
this
project
going
ahead
where
it
is
and
how
it's
proposed.
I
just
need
to
find
out
how
I
can
become
involved
in
this
now
and
that's
why
I'm
here
exclusively.
F
So
this
is
an
ignorance
again.
Has
we
discussed
this
with
the
with
the
commission
in
their
work
session?
We
will
address
process
and
go
from
there,
but
the
the
purpose
of,
and
thank
you
for
identifying
a
noticing
issue
and
and
we'll
work
on
finding
ways
to
address
that
and
procedurally
make
sure
that
we're
we're
giving
everybody
opportunities
if
there
has
been
some
sort
of
an
issue,
but
I
think
for
the
purpose
of
this
meeting.
F
It
really
is
a
discussion
for
the
landmarks
commission,
they've
heard
you
and
as
they
proceed
with
this
discussion,
we
can
talk
about
how
they
want
to
proceed
with
the
decision-making
process
on
it
and.
H
H
So
that
concludes
what
I
need
to
do.
Okay,.
C
Very
very
good.
Thank
you,
mr
eagan.
It's
my
understanding,
then
that
now
at
this
this
point
in
time
we're
moving
into
the
unfinished
business
concerning
the
thistle
avenue
triplex
on
thistle
avenue.
I
I
I
As
part
of
that,
the
applicant
has
applied
for
two
special
exceptions.
The
first
is
a
reduction
in
the
required
side
yard
and
the
second
is
to
allow
an
encroachment
of
is
into
that
required
side
yard.
You
reviewed
this
project
back
in
june
and
tabled
it
at
that
time.
I
It
with
a
request
for
changes
to
the
design.
The
applicants
have
submitted
a
revised
proposal
which
you
will
be
reviewing
here
tonight.
It,
the
the
plan,
at
least
to
this
point,
had
been
free.
This
is
a
closed.
The
public
hearing
has
been
closed
and
you
would
make
a
decision
on
the
revised
proposal
tonight.
I
It
wasn't
planned
for
a
work
session
if,
if
that,
if
you'd
like
to
give
the
applicant
some
more
feedback-
and
we
can
return
it
back
if
there
are
any
issues-
obviously
that's
the
commission's
decision-
you
can
see
here
the
surrounding
context
and
the
this
is
an
early
version
of
the
site
plan,
but
it
shows
that
the
buildings-
I
don't
think
it
shows
250
south
elizabeth,
maybe
actually
that's
immediately
adjacent
to
the
east.
You
can
see
that
there
and
then
the
surrounding
buildings.
I
You
know
it's,
it's
very
uncharacteristic,
this
little
branch
of
thistle
avenue
from
the
rest
of
the
university
district,
and
we
discussed
that
in
the
june
meeting
the
propos
the
applicants
have
taken
this
design,
which
was
the
original
design
you
were
beat
in
june.
Excuse
me.
I
And
revised
it
to
this,
this
is
a
rendering
of
the
west
facade
which,
given
the
the
sighting
on
this
triangular
shaped
lot,
would
be
the
the
main
facade
or
primary
facade.
Overall.
In
response
to
your
your
comments
and
public
comment,
they've
simplified
the
design,
the
massing
the
roof
cornice
is
now
more
articulated.
I
The
facade.
The
front
facade
particularly
is
more
articulated.
The
entrances
are
a
little
more
emphasized
with
the
black
and
contrasting
colors
from
the
walls.
I
This
shows
the
previous
design,
as
well
as
the
revised
design
to
the
the
west
or
the
front
elevation
you
can
see.
The
primary
materials
have
been
changed
from
stucco
panel
from
the
original
stucco
panels
and
fiber
cement,
siding
to
what
is
now
proposed,
which
is
brick
in
a
light.
The
light
gray
that
you
see
in
the
elevation
drawing
and
a
real
cement
stucco
in
the
darker
charcoal
color
entrance,
canopies
and
and
all
other
architectural
details
are
now
a
dark,
charcoal
color.
I
I
You
can
see
that
the
the
materials
reflect
the
change
in
the
overall
change
of
materials
with
the
darker
gray,
cement,
stucco
and
then
additional
light
gray,
cement
stucco
on
that
side.
I
These
are
the
elevations
that
face
thistle
avenue,
they've
revised
the
window
design,
make
it
more
regular,
with
the
vertical
emphasis
they've,
also
added
a
more
a
clearly
defined
front
entrance
with
a
canopy
and
they've,
also
enlarged
and
emphasized
the
the
porch
for
that
adjacent
unit,
with
an
additional
awning.
I
The
special
exception
requests
are
outlined
in
much
more
detail
in
the
staff
report.
They
remain
unchanged
from
the
original
that
was
requested
back
in
june
they're,
requesting
relief
from
from
the
side
yard
setback
requirement
to
allow
for
a
reduced,
five-foot
side,
yard
setback
and
then
also
an
encroachment
of
balconies
on
the
two
balconies
on
the
rear.
I
On
the
second
story
that
would
encroach
into
that
side:
yard
setback,
given
the
slope
of
the
property
and
also
the
the
increase
in
height
and
the
configuration
of
the
lot,
which
is
a
odd
lot.
That's
existed
since
at
least
1898
staff
is
has
not
changed.
Their
recommendation
for
approval
of
these
special
exception
requests.
I
One
additional
item
that
came
up
during
the
discussion,
both
from
the
public
and
from
the
from
the
commission,
was
the
the
location
of
a
branch
of
the
wasatch
fault
and
the
proximity
of
that
to
this
property.
This
illustration
is
taken
from
a
2015
fault.
Rupture
hazard
study
that
was
commissioned
by
a
previous
owner
of
the
property
staff
has
reviewed
this
and
it's
it's
way
out
of
our
realm
of
of
technical
expertise.
I
But
the
results
of
the
the
study
were
that
they
found
no
addition.
They
found
no
evidence
of
a
fault
line
in
the
area
that
is
shown
in
the
that
they
trenched
and
studied
shown
it
by
the
black
line.
On
that
lot,
the
salt
lake
county
shows
a
branch
of
the
wasatch
felt
located
along
that
red
dotted
line
there.
I
I
They
they
also
found
that
there
was
no
evidence
indicating
in
the
study
and
that
there
was
a
fault
line
located
in
the
buildable
area
and
they
found
no
reason
to
object
or
or
not
can
concur
with
the
results
of
that
study.
I
That
concludes
my
presentation.
If
there's
any
questions
on
the
noticing
requirements
or
anything,
that
was
any
any
other
questions
regarding
the
proposal,
then,
certainly
I'm
I'm
open
to
additional
comment.
C
Well,
nelson,
I
do
have
a
question
that
if
indeed
the
notices
were
not
received,
is
it
appropriate
for
us
to
proceed
until
do
we
actually
have
those
conversations.
I
know
this
was
was
a
work
session
and
so
that
we're
not
voting
we're
not
doing
we're
not
proceeding
and
on
this
meeting.
But
but
we
would
would
then
open
for
public
com
comments
at
the
next
subsequent
meeting.
I
As
as
we
had
planned
this,
this
was
not
a
work
session.
This
was
just
this
was
returning
with
a
revised
design
for
your
review,
and
so
I'm
going
to
defer
to
either
nick
or
michaela
on
for
further.
F
Yeah
so
so
the
city
code
requires
a
mailed
notice
to
property
arms
within
a
certain
distance
of
any
project
that
requires
a
public
hearing,
and
so
the
the
person
who
spoke
did
indicate
you
know
the
mail
is
somewhat
unreliable
and
that
there's
some
truth
to
that.
We
don't
control
once
we
drop
something
in
a
mailbox,
we
don't
control
it,
and
so
the
other
thing
that
that
is
required
by
city
code
is
that
the
subject
property
be
posted
with
a
sign
for
a
public
hearing.
F
So
there
are
other
avenues
to
to
check.
People
can
also
join
our.
We
have
an
email
list
serve
that
all
agendas
go
out
on
that
people
can
look
at
that's
hard
for
people
who
may
be
not
expecting
land
use
applications
and
things
like
that
near
them.
But
there
are
other
avenues.
F
It
is
at
the
discretion
of
the
commission
to
decide
to
reopen
a
closed
public
hearing
and
that's
within
your
policies
and
procedures
to
do
that,
and
that
essentially,
is
a
motion
by
the
commission
and
a
vote
of
the
majority
present
in
order
for
that
to
pass
so.
C
So,
nick
just
a
point
of
order,
then
the
the
reason
for
tonight's
meeting
was
initially
intended
to
review
the
changes
that
have
been
suggested
from
last
meeting
and
that's
it
now
then
yeah
and-
and
we
do
that
and
then
in
the
next
meeting.
That's
when
when
there
would
be
opportunity
for
public.
F
So
let
me
clarify
is
it
you
held
the
commission
held
the
public
hearing
to
meet
the
legal
requirement
in
june.
At
that
meeting,
the
commission
asked
for
some
additional
information
and
tabled
the
matter
but
closed
the
public
hearing.
The
commission
does
have
the
authority
to
make
a
decision
on
this
tonight
and,
if
you
feel
like
the
applicant
has
met
the
and
address
the
issues
that
the
commission
identified
at
their
at
their
june
meeting
when
this
was
held
last.
C
C
Okay,
very
good
either
john
or
david.
Do
you
have
any
other
other
comments.
J
Yeah
richardson
here
I
I
concur
that
that
certainly
the
budding
owner
that
spoke,
the
earlier
public
session
this
evening
certainly
has
some
standing
here,
and
I
would
also
suggest-
and
this
should
go
into
the
record-
that
the
if
that
interest-
it
would
help
that
interested
party
if
there
were
a
site
section
that
went
from
elizabeth
street
down
through
the
project
through
both
projects,
so
that
the
budding
neighbor
can
see
how
their
condominium
project
relates
to
this
new
condominium
project.
J
I
think
that
would
be
very
helpful
to
them.
I
I
personally
can
visualize
what's
going
on,
but
I
can
see
how
that
would
be
helpful
to
as
a
budding
owner
above
the
fault
line.
K
Yeah,
I
agree
I
would
reiterate
what
I
said
at
the
june
meeting,
which
is
that
it
felt
a
little
strange
that
there
wasn't
a
work
session
to
begin
with
that
we
were
trying
to
go
straight
into
a
public
hearing
from
scratch.
C
Very
good,
so,
fellow
commissioners,
can
I
have
a
motion
on
how
to
proceed.
I
think
there's
two
things
to
that:
we're
discussing
having
a
a
work
session
this
evening,
but
also
opening
up
to
public
discussion
when
we
return
at
next
meeting.
J
You
know
if
we're
going
to
open
up
the
public
discussion
next
meeting.
I
I
don't
know
how
useful
work
session
is,
but
perhaps
we
could
briefly
review
it.
D
D
J
D
L
L
It's
on
the
agenda
for
a
discussion,
there's
unfinished
business
as
far
as
doing
something
else
with
it
tonight
and
I
don't
know
what
that
would
be
as
a
work
session.
It's
not
advertised
as
a
work
session,
but
it's
certainly
on
the
agenda
as
something
you
can
discuss
so
feel
free
to
go
there.
L
You
know,
as
far
as
scheduling
this
for
a
future
public
hearing.
If
that's
what
the
vote
is
on
this,
you
can
do
this.
You
can
reopen
the
public
hearing,
there's
going
to
be
another
notice
period
and
whatnot,
but
yeah.
So
when
I
say
you
can't
do
a
work
session
on
tonight,
I
was
thinking
that
you're
going
to
do
something
in
addition
to
what's
on
the
agenda,
just
go
ahead
and
talk
about
whatever
you're
going
to
talk
about
on
this.
J
So
I
believe
no
motion
is
required.
Then
we
just
talk
about
it
and
then
at
the
end
we
propose
a
motion
to
table
this
for
a
future
public
hearing
that
sound
right.
F
The
applicant
gary
knapp
is
a
panelist
and
that's
up
to
the
commission
to
provide
periods
for
that
for
the
applicants
to
to
address
the
I.
C
M
Okay,
can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
okay,
I'm
gary
knapp.
I
know
that
the
owner
and
developer
of
the
project
does
want
to
talk,
and
he
is
on
here-
and
I
don't
know
why,
this
time
last
time
he
was
able
to
be
a
presenter
also,
but
this
time
he's
not,
is
there
any
way
that
we
can
make
him
a
presenter,
so
he
can
talk.
M
F
N
Sure
so
I
I
just
want
to
address
a
couple
comments
that
were
made
last
time
and
have
just
recently
been
made
again
about
us
not
having
a
working
session.
We
submitted
this
application
for
a
working
session
back
in
february
of
2001.
N
We
were
supposed
to
be
put
on
the
docket
for
april
for
a
working
session
and
may
for
a
a
approval
because
of
staff,
illnesses
and
vacation
times
we
were
dismissed
and
that
working
session
didn't
take
place
we.
That
is
why
we
went
right
to
the
hearing.
N
So
it
it
is
just
disappointing
to
me
we
are
losing
yet
another
month.
It
should
not
take
nine
months
to
get
through
these
reviews
and
approvals.
But
having
said
that,
we
have
submitted
what
we
thought
complied
with.
The
requests
of
the
council.
N
From
the
last
meeting
and
if
if
there
are
dramatic
exceptions,
I'd
really
like
to
to
understand
what
those.
N
M
And
if
I
could
maybe
just
take
a
minute,
also
and
and
just
say
that
we
did
work,
we
were
trying
to
get
on
last
month,
also
and
last
meeting
too
that
we
did
in
june.
M
It
was
essentially
said
that
this
is
the
work
session
and
gave
us
the
comments,
so
we
really
kind
of
had
that
work
session
last
time
and
we
took
all
the
comments
and
and
we've
made
the
changes,
and
you
know.
Obviously
we
would
really
like
to
you
know,
get
a
vote
on
those
and
move
forward
today,
but
we
understand
that
you
guys
have
the
power
to
to
do
what
you
want
in
that
regard.
M
But
we
were.
We
are
very
interested
to
know
if
you
have
any
other
concerns
on
on
the
project.
D
Okay,
I'm
not
going
to
address
those
concerns.
You
just
had
this
they're
valid.
I
was
hoping
you
guys
could
talk
in
more
detail
about
the
design
you've
got
tonight.
It
was
the
nelson's
presentation,
as
was
appropriate,
was
a
broad
brush
introduction
to
it.
Can
you
please
give
us
more
detail
about
your
thoughts
and
why
you've
arrived
at
the
design
solution
that
you're
presenting
tonight.
N
The
the
design
solution
that
we
are
presenting
tonight
came
straight
out
of
the
comments
and
requests
from
the
last
meeting.
The
last
meeting.
The
feedback
that
we
received
was
that
the
design
was
too
complicated.
N
We
needed
to
simplify
the
windows
recess,
the
windows
line
them
up,
so
we
had
more
of
a
mid-century
modern,
look,
something
that
would
match
the
surrounding
area
better,
so
that
is,
and-
and
there
was
a
lot
of
dialogue
about
that-
how
to
accomplish
that
mid-century,
modern
approach
lining
up
the
windows,
simplifying
the
windows,
simplifying
how
many
materials
and
texture
depth
of
the
building
was
all
at
the
direct
request
of
this
group,
this
committee,
in
the
feedback
that
we
received
last
last
month
beyond
that
gary
do
you
you
have
more.
M
No,
I
think
that's
pretty
accurate
and
the
only
other
thing
to
add
is
we
did
take
a
look
at
those
other
buildings
that
you
guys
had
looked
at
that
were
on
thistle
street
and
we
did
kind
of
make
our
windows
be
more
of
the
vertical
type
like
those
and
we
added
more
glazing
that
that
you
wanted
and
so
forth
to
to
kind
of
bring
it.
So
it's
still
and
it's
only
two
different
materials
now
and
we
simplified
it
in
and
then
did
make
it
very
mid-century
modern.
M
If
you
look
at
you
know
the
function
and
the
essentially
taking
the
organic
and
geometric
shapes
that
that
that
bring
it
into
the
clean
lines
and
so
forth.
That
gives
that
mid-century
modern
feel.
N
Now
one
one
exception
that
we
should
mention
something
that
is
different
from
the
rendering
that
we
showed
the
the
glass
panels
on
the
garages.
N
We
are
going
to
propose
as
being
a
frosted
glass,
something
that's
not
transparent,
so
that
people
from
the
street
are
seeing
whatever's
inside
somebody's
garage.
But
aside
from
that,
we
did
switch
to
the
glass
panels
at
the
recommendation
of
this
group
in
the
garage
doors
to
keep
with
that
mid-century
modern.
N
C
I
I
would
add
to
to
the
comments
of
both
michael
and
gary,
that
simplifying
the
windows
enhancing
the
entrances,
simplifying
materials,
making
the
windows
more
vertical,
you
know,
and
maybe
decreasing
the
materials
and
harkening
back
to
the
mid-century
modern
look.
Those
indeed
were
things
that
were
discussed
in
last
meetings.
I
agree
with
that.
C
C
F
Understanding
now
you
you,
you
have
fulfilled
your
statutory
requirements
to
hold
a
public
hearing
and
and
at
their
last
meeting,
you
tabled
this
to
give
the
applicant
an
opportunity
to
respond
to
specific
issues
that
were
raised
at
that
public
hearing.
You
have
the
ability
to
make
a
decision
on
this
tonight
and
I
understand
that
there
are
that
that
we
heard
from
somebody
who
was
claiming
that
they
didn't
get
notice
until
after
and
like
I
like,
I
explained
earlier,
I
believe
that
we
mailed
and
complied
with
the
noticing
requirements
for
a
public
hearing.
F
It's
unfortunate
that
we
are
reliable
reliant
on
others
to
fulfill
those
public
hearing
notice
requirements,
but
we
have
done
our
legal
duty
to
do
it
and
I
think
it's,
I
think
it's
important
to
keep
in
mind
that
the
commission,
you
know
the
role
really
is
to
determine
whether
or
not
this
proposal
complies
with
those
with
the
standards
and
that,
if
there's
a
discussion,
that's
what
the
discussion
should
be
focused
on
whether
or
not
you
feel
like
any
changes
that
have
been
made
comply
with
the
standards
that
you
didn't
feel
like.
J
Nick
this
is
richardson
here,
commissioner,
so
to
that
end
we
could
vote
up
or
down
on
this
and
a
party
a
neighbor
or
whatever,
that
wishes
to
file
a
petition
against.
This
has
a
period
of
time
where
they
can
do.
That.
Is
that
correct.
D
Well,
in
light
of
that,
in
light
of
what
nick
said,
I'd
be
willing
to
take
this
into
executive
session
and
discuss
the
merits
of
this
design
and
then
put
it
to
a
vote.
D
E
O
C
Right,
I
do
believe
that
that
we
ought
to
move
into
executive
session,
speak
on
this
and
then
get
back.
So
unless
there's
any
any
objection
to
that,
let's
move
into
executive
session
to
discuss
these
the
new
construction
and
special
exceptions.
J
I'm
I'm
unmuted.
I
really.
I
don't
really
have
any
comments
at
this
time.
I'm
curious
to
see
what
the
other
commissioners
say.
I
I
do
believe
that
the
fault
line
is
steep
enough
at
this
point
that
this
is
unlikely
to
directly
affect
the
uphill
neighbors.
K
John
yeah,
I
do
think
this
is
a
step
in
the
right
direction,
so
to
kind
of
address
what
the
applicant
was
saying.
I
I
do
feel
like
you
heard
us
and
and
are
moving
towards
what
we
discussed
last
week
or
last
in
june,
when
this
was
last
presented.
K
K
I
also
don't
know
if
we
have
enough
detail
to
vote
yes
or
no
on
on
the
proposal.
So
that's
something
I
would
ask
the
other
commissioners.
If,
if
we
do,
I
don't
know.
K
If
you
know
like
we've
had
buildings
in
the
past,
where
people
come
in
with
like
window
details
and
like
exactly
what
what
type
of
windows
are
you
talking
about
it's
hard
to
tell
from
this
rendering
and
from
the
elevations?
But
that
said,
I
do
think
it's
it's
in
the
right
direction.
I
like
it
more
than
what
was
presented
at
the
last
public
hearing.
K
I
do
think
it
would
be
in
the
best
interest
of
the
public
if
we
allowed
people
to
comment
on
the
revised
design.
It
feels
like
this
is
kind
of
a
weird
process.
Maneuver
around
design
changes
where,
in
the
past,
the
public
can
kind
of
track
these
through
one
or
two
work
sessions,
and
then
the
the
application
that's
in
front
of
us
is
the
result
of
input
from
both
the
commission
and
from
public
feedback.
That's
been
received
through
emails
and
and
other
other
means.
K
So
you
know
I
I
hear
what
the
applicant's
saying
about
not
being
able
to
hold
the
work
session
in
may.
That
said,
that's
not
really.
It's
not
the
commission
itself
who
schedules
these
work
sessions.
K
Our
july
meeting
was
already
four
hours,
so
I'm
sorry
that
you
didn't
get
on
that
agenda,
but
at
the
same
time
you
know
we're
volunteers
and
you
gotta
recognize
our
time
commitment
here
too.
So
that's
kinda,
where
I'm
at.
C
C
At
the
same
time,
I
do
feel
that
that
and-
and
I
know
that
what
we
we've
done,
what
we're
supposed
to
and
things
were
mailed
out.
We
we
don't
as
a
commission,
we
don't
have
power
over
that,
but
if
indeed
somehow
they
they
did
not
get
deliberate.
I
just
feel
odd
that
that
we're
circumventing
neighbors
that
are
are
living
right
next
door
to
this
we're
commissioners.
C
I
don't
I
live
within
blocks
of
here,
but
I
don't
live
right
next
door
and
I
would
like
to
have
have
consensus,
or
at
least
at
least
honest
genuine
conversation
with
the
neighbors.
Concerning
this,
my
my
personal
feeling
is
that
I
I
feel
for
for
the
architect
and
the
developer
that
that
it's
taken
as
long
as
it
is,
I
that
that's
that's
out
of
our
control
at
this
point.
M
Can
I
make
a
comment?
Certainly
the
only
other
thought
is
they
did
receive
this
in
june,
and
so
they
have
known
about
this
project.
The
only
thing
that
we've
changed,
really
we've
changed
a
few
things,
but
not
very
much.
M
C
Understood
paul,
if
I
understand
you
correctly,
there
has
to
be
notice,
and
this
this
was
not
a
notice
that
this
was
a
a
you
know,
a
public
meeting
work
session
and
right
because
of
that
single
thing
that
precludes
us
from
from
doing
exactly
what
gary
was
asking.
L
That
is
correct.
In
order
to
receive
verbal
public
input,
we
would
need
to
hold
a
public
hearing.
We
need
to
reopen
it
in
this
case,
and
that
does
require
the
notice
that's
prescribed
in
the
city
code,
which
is
at
least
12
days.
L
Let
me
I'm
going
to
try
to
be
careful
in
how
I
respond.
Your
question.
L
I
I
don't
know
that
necessarily
anything
was
interfered
with
I
want
you
know.
I
think
we
want
to
give
people
the
benefit
of
the
doubt,
but
I've
become
a
little
bit
cynical
on
notice
claims.
It
seems
like
about
half
of
the
appeals
that
I
end
up.
Dealing
with
people
have
claimed
that
they
didn't
receive
notice,
yet
they
attended
the
meetings
where
they
claimed
they
didn't
receive
notice
of
those.
Now
I
don't
know
that
that
happened
in
this
case.
L
I'm
just
saying
the
law
allows
us
to
presume,
because
of
that
that
if
we,
if
we
did
our
part
to
provide
the
public
notice,
we
are
in
a
safe
place
to
make
a
decision
regardless.
If
the
postal
service
didn't
deliver-
and
I
know
that
that
happens-
I'm
fully
aware
that
the
postal
service
is
certainly
not
the
most
reliable
way
of
delivering
things,
but
it's
the
way
that
that
we
are
given
by
law
to
notify
adjacent
property
owners
of
of
public
hearings.
You
know
that
being
said,
you're
certainly
allowed
to
do
this
to
reopen
it.
L
If
you
do
go
ahead
and
vote
tonight
and
the
adjacent
property
owner,
anybody
who
is
an
adversely
affected
party
feels
like
they
want
to
appeal
this.
They
certainly
can,
and
they
can
do
so
on
a
claim
that
they
didn't
receive
proper
notice
or
that
somehow
the
the
decision
didn't
meet
the
applicable
standards.
So,
yes,
there
would
be
recourse
and
that
would
come
in
the
form
of
an
appeal.
N
C
So
let
me
ask
a
question,
then
paul,
if
indeed
there
was
an
appeal:
would
that
take
longer
time
or
less
time
than
deferring
to
next
month,
where
we
would,
I
would
presume,
hear
you
know,
comments
made
by
the
public
and
then
then
then
be
able
to
vote
at
that
time.
So
I
guess.
C
A
time
question
on,
on
behalf
of
of
the
the
architect
and
developer.
L
And
in
normal
circumstances
like
it,
gives
you
a
fairly
straightforward
answer
and
say
yeah.
That
would
probably
be
more
time
consuming
and
that's
because
currently
city
code
imposes
an
automatic
stay
on
a
land
use
application
that
is
appealed.
However,
the
city
council
is
currently
considering
a
text
amendment
that
would
remove
that
presumption
or
that
automatic
stay,
because
it's
inconsistent
with
state
law,
so
the
appeal
wouldn't
automatically
stay.
L
The
developer
could
move
forward
with
the
development
activity,
and
this
all
kind
of
depends
on
how
the
city
council
decides
on
that
text
the
moment
and
when
but
chances
are,
it
could
take
longer.
If
there
is
an
appeal
and
that's
presuming
there
would
be
one
it's
just
uncertain
at
this
point,
given
the
pending
ordinance.
J
Quite
question
paul,
I
I've
been
told-
and
I
don't
know
if
this
is
a
rumor
roots
in
here-
that
the
development
on
sixth
east
behind
the
masonic
temple
proceeded
well,
the
neighbors
were
appealing
it
and
it
may
still
be
under
appeal
for
all.
I
know.
L
I
believe
that
was
was
that
a
special
exception
involved,
because
there's
this
is
where
the
code
is
a
little
bit
mixed.
If
it's
a
special
exception
conditional
use
or
planned
development,
there
is
no
automatic
stay.
So
if
the,
if
that
was
a
special
exception
on
that
one,
it
would
not
have
been
automatically
stayed.
L
I
L
Know
if
they
did
proceed
at
at
their
own
risk
on
that
well,
thank
you.
Paul.
N
If
this
this
is
the
owner
michael,
if,
if
it
is
possible,
I
would
be
willing
to
proceed
at
risk.
What
were
what
we
are
trying
to
do?
I
I'm
not
trying
to
cheat
anybody
out
of
a
voice
in
the
project.
N
If,
if
we
can
just
get
our
drawings
into
the
building
department
and
start
their
review,
that's
I'd
be
willing
to
take
that
risk,
even
if
it
means
that
there's
changes
and
we
have
to
do
some
additional
architectural
and
structural
engineering
work
changes.
N
I
think
that
would
be
much
faster
with
the
building
department
than
to
to
wait
and
then
move
forward,
but
I
I
sense
that
you
guys
are
appropriately
trying
to
give
the
neighbors
a
voice
and
I'm
not
trying
to
shut
that
down
we're
just
looking
for
a
way
to
to
move
forward
in
the
review
process
for
the
city.
J
Richard
richardson
here
and
I
can
speak
to
that
and
paul
can
confirm
or
deny
it,
but
I
personally
have
submitted
many
projects
for
landmarks
and
for
building
review
at
the
same
time
and
oftentimes.
The
building
review
goes
faster.
J
And
then
the
building,
then
the
permit
is
just
held
up
by
the
certificate
of
appropriateness,
so
it
in
in
my
personal
experience
you
could.
You
could
have
submitted
this
a
year
ago
and
have
full
building
department
approval
just
waiting
for
this
committee
to
give
you
a
certificate
of
proficiency.
D
The
people
said
back
up
what
what
david's
saying
is.
What
we're
looking
here
is
is
the
facade.
I
don't
think
we've
got
any
issues
with
your
your
footprint,
your
your
footing,
foundation,
plan,
your
and
so
forth,
but
that
said,
I'd
like
to,
I
think
we're
skipping
over
well
not
skipping
over,
but
the
talk
about
public
participation
is
important
and
we
need
to
deal
with
that,
but
we've
also
got
design
issues
right
now
that
I
think
it
would
be
valuable
to
talk
about.
D
Could
we
get
into
those
into
some
specifics?
Michael.
C
I
would,
I
would
very
much
agree
with
that
canton
and
I
would
like
to
get
into
some
specific
design
issues.
D
Of
all
I'm
going
to
talk
about
the
things
that
I
think
are
done.
Well,
I
I
think
these,
the
sighting
the
site
plan
on
this
challenging
site
works
out
pretty
nicely
the
the
evolution
of
the
design
towards
what
we
were
requesting.
I
think
they've
made
a
good
step
on
that.
The
solid
void
ratio
is
is
good.
The
massing
seems
appropriate
the
balance
between
the
brick
and
the
stucco
also
also
I'd,
say
at
this
point.
D
I
have
no
problem
with
the
special
exceptions
requested,
especially
given
that
site
areas
where
I
have
concerns
john
touched
upon
those
I
think
we're
laughing
in
details.
D
D
About
the
the
presentation,
it
was
very,
very
schematic
the
rendering
helps
but
they're
not
going
to
build
from
a
rendering.
I
don't
know
anything
about
these.
These
windows,
as
the
windows
are
shown,
they
are
simply
transparent.
Rectangles.
D
D
Where
is
it
set
within
the
facade
and
how
the
heck
are
you
going
to
shade
that
western
expanse
of
glass
from
the
western
sun?
That's
not
a
historical
thing,
but
it's
a
practical
thing:
the
stucco
facades,
while
they're
moving
in
the
direction
that
we'd
like
and
they
do
represent
a
modern
balance
of
solid,
devoid
and
materials.
D
They're
very
simplistic
are
there
to
be
reveals
in
them
to
give
some
definition,
what
you
know
or
are
they
just
an
unbroken
mass
of
stucco,
is
shown
here
the
the
central
volume
if
you're,
looking
straight
on
elevation,
the
two
left
most
volumes,
I'm
looking
at
the
west
elevation,
the
two
left
volumes
are
a
a
symmetrical
pair.
D
Yet,
when
seen
in
perspective,
the
central
volume
has
a
different
cantilever
than
the
left
west
north
most
volume.
That
looks
a
little
awkward
to
me.
It
almost
seems
like,
if
there's
a
symmetry,
about
to
balance
the.
D
The
just
without
going
into
more
details
there
without
going
into
more
details,
there
seems
to
be
a
lack
of
detail,
and
a
lack
of
definition
like
the
the
design
is
presented,
is
a
first
step
schematically
and
it's
in
the
right
direction.
But
I
feel
like
we
need
more
information
and
that
the
intent
is
to
get
a
modern
interpretation
of
the
the
context
and
in
the
buildings
there,
and
I
don't
think
we
were
we're
getting
that
at
this
point.
D
C
That's
it
for
me,
yeah
ken
you
you've
touched
on
some
of
the
items
that
I
would
think
as
well.
I
know
that
that
you
can't
do
stucco
in
in
more
than
200
square
feet.
I
I
know
there's
going
to
be
control
joints.
You
know
vertically
and
horizontally
with
each
one
of
the
windows
that
would
help
to
break
up
visually.
That
I
mean
I
know
we're
saying
two
different
things.
You
look
at
the
elevation,
yes,
overall,
having
the
windows
a
bit
more
vertical
matches.
C
What's
across
the
street
correct,
you
know
and-
and
you
know
judged
against
the
previous
design.
Yes,
this
is
in
absolutely
the
right
direction,
but
there
is
detail:
that's
going
to
be
there
on
those
stucco
walls,
it's
not
simply
not
shown
just
yet
the!
I
don't
me
personally.
I
don't
mind
the
the
little
bit
of
asymmetrical
that
you
know
with
the
the
doorways
and
the
the
little
balconies
on
on
both
the
right
and
the
left
side.
I
think
that's,
okay.
What
what
I
do
have
an
issue
with
is
the
same
kind
of
questions.
C
That
canton
was
asking.
These
are
windows
and
they
need
to
be,
you
know.
Are
they
operable,
you
know?
Is
there
a
possibility
of
them
having
big
shards
of
glass
in
here
as
an
owner
that
that
may
be
problematic
that
they
may
be
out
outside
of
our
purview,
but
it
the
the
operableness
of
the
windows,
I
think,
is
something
on
a
practical
side.
I
do
like
the
the
introduction
of
the
of
the
garages,
but
it's
it's
it's
in
keeping,
I
think,
with
the
fenestration
above
the
garage
doors.
C
Yes,
and
I
know
that
I
think
that
the
the
owner
of
the
architect
had
indicated
that
they
were
not
clear
glass
but
had
a
little
bit
of
transparency
or
they
were
they
were
in
between,
and
I
I
think
that's
fine.
So
it's
it's
a
little
bit
of
lack
of
detail
that
I
think
this.
These
are
almost
like
schematic
drawings.
Moving
into
you
know,
design
development
and
construction
documents
details
going
to
come
because
you
simply
can't
have
stucco
in
these
great
shards
without
having
you
know,
appropriate
control
joints
the
the
solid
void.
C
M
Thank
you.
So
sorry,
we
did
not
know.
I
I
thought
you
know
we
were
just
trying
to
get
the
the
design
here.
We
we
did.
I
didn't
know
we
needed
to
show
you
guys
the
the
details
of
those.
But
yes
they
were.
We
are
to
have
some
single
hung,
so
you
can
open
up
those
from
the
bottom
and
they
slide
up
on
some
of
those
windows
and-
and
it
sounds
to
me
that
there's
just
two
main
ones
I
just
want
to
make
sure
and
I
didn't
understand.
M
I
was
wondering
if
kenton
could-
maybe
repeat
the
the
symmetry
thing.
I
didn't
understand
what
he
was
saying.
So
I
loved
if
he
could
just
help
us
understand
that
again,
but
there's
just
two
main
issues
that
I'm
hearing
is.
You
want
to
see
the
stucco
reveals,
which
we
definitely
can,
can
show
that
and
show
where
the
control
joints
we
were
just
representing
where
the
stucco-
and
I
guess
that
would
would
show
it
there
and
I
apologize
that
we
didn't
add
those.
M
But
definitely
that's
that's
easy
to
do,
and-
and
I
don't
know
if
that
makes
or
breaks
kind
of
the
design
that
we
have
to
be
able
to
see
those
or
not,
but
that
I
guess
that's
a
good
question
and
and
then
the
window
details-
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
those
are
the
two
things
that
you
guys
have
talked
about
and
then
just
the
the
symmetry
part.
I
really
didn't
understand
if
we
could
get
that.
D
M
D
Just
from
my
my
aesthetic,
it
seemed
like
that
central
garage
if
it
is
to
be
different
from
the
one
to
the
left
of
it,
that
the
amount
of
cantilever
that
you've
got
isn't
enough
to
really
make
that
statement
that
it
said,
perhaps
that
whole
facade
is
aligned,
but
I
think
that's
less
ideal
than
giving
the
the
upper
volume
a
more
pronounced.
Cantilever
like
the
one
on
the
left,
but
that's
that's
pretty
minor
and
again
mike
didn't
see
that
that
was
an
issue.
D
I
think
the
the
essence
of
what
we're
trying
to
get
at
is
is
get
the
proportions
and
the
solid
void
and
the
massing
to
reflect
the
the
the
essence
of
modern
and
mid-century
modern,
but
give
it
a
little
character
as
well.
That
makes
it
your
building
and
highlights
the
strengths
of
your
design.
M
One
maybe
other
thing
that
we
got
from
the
last
meeting
and
we
did
pull
up
some
google
street
views
of
those
other
buildings,
but
they
were
and
they,
and
it
was
really
emphasized
that
we
needed
this
building,
to
look
more
like
those
buildings
and
have
similar
features
and
those
are
just
cmu
walls
that
are
straight,
there's
no
other
material.
It's
a
straight.
M
There's
no,
no
reveals
nothing
of
character
in
those,
and
it
was
told
to
us
very
clearly
that
we
needed
to
have
this
building
reflect
similar
to
those,
and
so
that's
one
reason
why
we
really
simplified
it
and
tried
to
have
it.
So
it
looks
similar
to
those
ones
and
if
you
any
and-
and
that
was
emphasized
by
quite
a
few
members
on
our
last
meeting.
D
Yeah,
I
I
understand
your
your
what
you're
saying
gary
and
I
guess
my
thought
to
that
would
be.
You
have
two
thoughts.
One
is
that
there's
no
substitute
for
actually
going
out
and
looking
at
at
the
buildings
on
site
and
trying
to
get
a
sense
of
of
mass
proportion
and
all
that
and
then
maybe
you
have.
But
the
second
is
that.
D
Of
their
time,
they're,
relevant
and
they're
decent,
but
here's
your
opportunity
to
take
their
their
concept
and
create
a
better
building,
and
I
think
you're
on
your
way.
But
it's
not
quite
there.
Yet
you
know
putting
in
it
is
2021
and
we're
trying
to
balance
that
with
this
1950s
design.
But
what
can
you
do
to
make
something
that
fits
in
and
is
relevant
and
relates
to
them,
but
also
reflects
60
years
of
evolution
and
design
and
technology.
E
Kenton
as
a
point
of
clarification,
it
feels
like
the
two
things
we're
being
asked
to
discuss.
Today
are
the
east
side,
yard
setback
and
the
tea
balconies
encroachment
the
design
details
that
you're
talking
about?
Are
these
things
that,
although
we're
accustomed
to
seeing
them
and
talking
about
them,
ordinarily,
are
encompassed
in
that
line?
Where
we
say
all
final
design
details,
including
specific
direction
expressed
by
the
commission,
shall
be
delegated
to
planning
staff.
D
Yeah,
fair
enough,
if
you
want
to
make
a
motion
kind
of
encapsulating
what
you
just
said,
I
think
we
could
bring
it
up
to
a
vote,
because
I
don't
necessarily
disagree
with
what
you're
saying
there.
But
there
are
issues
that
I
was
concerned
about
that
are.
E
E
Yeah
and
as
and
as
concerned,
as
I
think
as
well
placed
as
those
concerns
are
and
as
concerned
as
I
am
about
democratic
voice,
I
don't
feel
like
the
strict
purview
of
what
we're
considering
tonight
allows
us
more
deliberation.
Really.
The
only
question
is:
is
this
setback
appropriate?
Are
the
balconies
appropriate
and
can
we
delegate
the
rest
of
staff
that
that
feels,
as
we've
talked,
it
feels
pretty
cut
and
dry
to
me.
D
C
C
Yes,
victoria,
are
you
prepared
to
raise
a
motion?
Please.
E
Okay,
so
then,
based
on
the
analysis
and
findings
listed
in
the
staff
report,
the
information
presented
and
the
input
received
during
the
public
hearing,
I
move
that
the
commission
approved
petition
pln
hlc
2021-0,
which
is
a
request
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
for
a
new
construction
of
a
three-story
triplex
and
petition
pln
hlc.
E
2021-0053,
which
is
a
request
for
two
special
exceptions
associated
with
the
proposed
new
building.
These
include:
a
reduction
in
the
required
east
yard,
setback
from
10
feet
to
5
feet
and
an
exception
to
allow
an
encroachment
of
two
balconies,
a
pro
approximately
three
feet
into
the
same
setback
with
the
following
conditions:
approval
of
all
final
design;
details,
including
materials
to
be
used;
windows
any
particularly
pertaining
to
materials,
including
specific
direction
expressed
by
the
commission,
shall
be
delegated
to
planning
staff.
K
C
J
I
think
it
would
be
great
if
they
used
real
windows
and
real
meaning
something
other
than
vinyl.
I
don't
think
we
allow
a
vinyl
in
historic
districts
and
that
the
windows
be
set
back
to
create
a
shadow
line.
C
Excuse
me
sorry,
so
a
motion
has
been
seconded
by
commissioner
richardson,
so
john.
K
O
C
John
excuse
me
david.
E
C
C
I
will
I
can
certainly
vote
yes,
it
will.
I
abstain,
all
right,
very
good.
I
believe
there
is
a
vote.
I
voted
I
as
well,
so
that
would
be.
That
would
be
four.
I
one
abstention.
L
Chairman,
you
do
you
don't
get
to
vote
on
this
unless
you're
breaking
a
tie
very.
C
Very
good,
sorry,
I
apologize
all
right
then
I
believe
we're
we're
finished
with
the
unfinished
business
and
at
this
point
in
time
I
believe
it's
time
to
move
into
the
now.
We
will
go
into
a
work
session
pertaining
to
pioneer
park.
Cultural
landscape
report
is
that
correct.
G
That's
correct:
may
we
have
we
had
a
call
for
a
short
break.
Mr
chair,
we
can
do.
C
That,
let's
say
that
it
is
a
703
right
now.
Shall
we
reconvene
at
7
10?
C
B
G
I
was
speaking
to
the
gentleman
who
came
to
our
first
hybrid
meeting
and
I'm
gonna
make
this
super.
G
G
We
will
connect
tomorrow,
and
I
want
to
make
this
very
quick,
so
you
can
hear
from
our
urban
designer
and
from
engineering
and
from
the
consultants,
but
I
do
want
to
say
having
cultural
landscape
reports
is
a
pretty
new
thing
and
I
want
to
give
a
little
bit
of
history
where
a
few
years
back,
the
planning,
division
and
parks
funded
a
consultant
to
come
up
with
some
historic
inventories
and
in
that
process,
as
in
the
planning
division,
we
tried
to
write
in-house
design
guidelines
for
cultural
landscapes,
and
I
probably
talked
about
that
before.
G
We
were
really
unsuccessful
in
doing
that,
and
we
couldn't
figure
out
why
other
than
we
didn't
have
everything
from
those
historic
inventories
and
we
were
lucky
lucky
enough
to
hire
laura
bandara
she's,
our
urban
designer
and
she
had
experience
in
cultural
landscape
reports,
and
she
said
I
know
exactly
what
you
need
and
why
you're
struggling
with
them
and
lights
went
off
and
nancy
monteith
was
working
for
parks
at
the
time
and
those
two
have
really
been
pushing
this
inter-departmental
coordination.
G
For
a
number
of
months
to
really
work
on
this
long-term
project
because,
as
you
know,
at
the
city,
preservation
activities
and
interests
are
numerous
and
they
overlap,
and
and
at
the
landmark
commission
I
mean,
as
planning
staff,
we're
helping
technically
advise
and
we're
usually
talking
about
buildings.
G
G
P
Hi,
I'm
laura
bendara
and
in
the
interest
of
getting
you
out
of
here,
I
michaela
introduced
me
so
that
I
think
you
know
enough
about
me.
P
P
That
was
a
mouthful
to
assist
you
in
making
decisions
on
changes
to
parks
and
historic
landscapes,
and
change
is
really
something
inherent
to
landscapes,
they're,
constantly
growing
and
declining
and
regrowing
and,
and
so,
as
the
clr
guide
says,
which
was
you
know,
put
out
by
the
nps
and
use
to
you
know
help
people
create
these
documents
because
of
the
dynamic
quality
of
a
landscape.
P
P
Parts
of
buildings
such
as
windows,
doors
proportion,
massing
architectural
style
within
their
larger
context
of
historical
events,
historical
people,
trends
and
themes,
and
what
the
treatment
section
will
do
is
provide
site-specific
guidance
using
those
landscape
characteristics
to
assist
you
in
evaluating
and
making
decisions
on
design
proposals
that
you
see
for
historic
parks
and
sites,
and
so
you
know,
I'm
sure,
you've
seen
some
of
the
noticing
for
or
maybe
participated
into,
the
public
comment
for
pioneer
park.
P
Clrs
also
provide
proactive
guidance
to
resolve
conflicts
that
can
come
up
between
natural
and
cultural
resources,
which
will
help
our
new
public
lands
department
in
their
management
decisions,
but
also
provide
solutions
that
can
accommodate
changes
while
still
maintaining
the
integrity
of
historic
sites,
and
what
this
really
means
is
that
we
can
better
preserve
our
historic
parks
and
public
spaces
and
also
tell
their
stories
better
and
so
just
to
kind
of
give
you
a
very
basic
understanding
of
how
this
might
work
is
based
on
a
site
history.
P
A
clr
will
determine
a
primary
treatment
approach
for
a
site
and
really
what
that
does
is
determine
the
overall
level
of
intervention
and
change,
and
it's
the
same
four
categories
that
you're
familiar
with
right:
preservation,
rehabilitation,
restoration
and
reconstruction,
and
so
while
the
primary
treatment
for
a
park
might
be
preservation,
it
can
happen
that
you
might
need
a
secondary
approach
for
some
aspects
of
it.
P
So
there's
a
little
bit
of
flexibility
belt
built
in
to
acknowledge
you
know
the
change
that
happens
in
landscapes
and
change
in
the
way
people
use
these
places,
and
so
just
to
conclude,
treatment,
approaches
and
actions
will
be
really
clearly
described
both
in
text
and
on
plans,
and
that
will
give
you
guidance
in
managing
change
in
our
in
the
places
the
places
and
parks
that
are
significant
to
our
history
and
beloved
by
our
residents.
O
Good
evening,
commissioners,
I
just
wanted
to
say
a
few
words
as
an
applicant
I've.
I'm
I've
come
before
the
historic
landmarks
commission,
with
proposed
improvements
to
pioneer
park
twice
before
in
my
career
once
as
a
consultant
and
second
as
a
staff.
Member
with
the
city-
and
I
would
say
in
both
those
occasions
it
felt
like
there
was
a
great
degree
of
uncertainty
in
terms
of
how
do
we
approach
sort
of
the
treatment
of
the
landscape
and
what
is
historic
and
what
is
important
about
that
preservation.
O
And,
I
think,
also
some
idea
of
how
it
would
be
evaluated.
And
I
think
what
we're
really
excited
about
is
having
a
comprehensive
psych
history
and
this
information
about
how
to
treat
it
and
preserve
it,
so
that
we
all
the
commissioners,
the
city
as
a
steward
and
the
public
is
working
with
a
common
set
of
information.
O
It
will
help
our
consultants
develop
a
plan
which
is
consistent
with
the
goal
management
goals
that
are
outlined
in
the
cultural
landscape
report
and
I'm
very
grateful
to
the
leadership
that
lara
and
the
preservation
team
has
brought
to
this
effort
in
our
ongoing
collaboration
and
also
our
consultants,
who
have
worked
very
diligently
to
help
us
all
push
it
further
than
we
have.
And
so
I'm
gonna
actually
introduce
our
consultants.
We
have
chile
larson
with
io
land
arc
and
kirk
huffinger,
with
preservation,
strategies
and
they're
going
to
do
an
overview
of
the
site.
History.
A
Okay,
thank
you
nancy.
I
have
not
shared
my
screen
before
using
this
particular
platform.
Does
someone
want
to
walk
me
through
it?
Oh
sure
there
it
is.
Okay,
all
right.
A
All
right,
hello,
everyone,
as
nancy
said,
I'm
chalet
larson
with
io
land
arc,
I'm
a
historical
landscape
architect,
and
I
just
want
to
recognize
kirk
huffaker,
who
is
here
with
me
tonight
and
has
really
led
the
the
site,
history,
research
efforts
on
this
project,
we're
here
to
give
you
a
quick
update
and
an
overview
about
where
we're
at
right
now
with
the
cultural
landscape
report
for
pioneer
park.
As
you
can
see
here,
there's
an
there's,
an
image
in
the
background
from
1948.
A
These
are
from
a
guide
to
cultural
landscape
reports
by
the
nps
and
the
the
typical
characteristics
that
you
look
for
when
you
start
to
to
look
at
and
break
down,
a
landscape
include
natural
systems
and
features
spatial
organization,
land
use,
cultural
traditions,
cluster
arrangement
of
buildings
and
structures
in
the
landscape,
circulation,
topography,
vegetation
buildings
and
structures,
views
and
vistas
constructed
water
features,
small
scale,
features
and
archaeological
sites.
Now
I
think
it's
really
important
to
mention
that
not
all
of
these
characteristics
come
into
play
on
every
single
project.
It's
really
about.
A
You
know
what
what
the
type
of
cultural
landscape
is,
that
you're,
looking
at
and
and
how
it
was
designed
and
and
what
factors
you
know
are
are
heavily
at
play,
for
example,
with
pioneer
park,
we're
very
much
looking
at
you
know:
spatial
organization,
land
use,
cultural
traditions
in
the
in
the
form
of
the
platzian
10,
acre,
block
circulation,
topography
and
and
vegetation,
especially.
A
So
sorry,
I
can't
figure
out
how
to
move
my
slide
forward
there.
We
go
so
just
a
quick
overview.
This
report
has
two
parts.
The
first
part
is
really
breaking
down
and
and
beginning
to
understand
the
landscape,
starting
with
a
very
thorough
site,
history,
understanding
how
the
site
has
developed
and
evolved
over
time
when
major
improvements
happen
to
the
park
and
really
a
lot
of
a
lot
about
the
cultural
factors
and
implications
and
design
movements
that
impacted
design.
A
And
then
it
also
includes
an
existing
conditions.
We
did
extensive
mapping
and
photography
documenting
the
site
as
it
exists
today
and
then
an
analysis
and
evaluation.
So
comparing
what
the
site
has
been
in
historical
periods
to
what
it
is
at
this
point
in
time
and
then
the
second
part
is
based
on
based
on
the
analysis
and
evaluation
will
determine
what
what
we
feel
like
the
significance
of
the
remaining
landscape
is
and
then
based
on
that
we'll
we
will
recommend
treatment
and
management
for
the
park,
so
just
a
really
quick
overview.
At
this
point.
A
In
time,
we've
identified
the
following
historical
periods
for
the
park,
including
the
indigenous
or
native
american
period,
from
pre
pre-1847,
the
old
four
period
from
1847
through
1851..
A
What
we're
calling
the
territorial
period
from
1851
through
1895-
and
this
is
really
1895
the
the
dividing
date
there
is.
You
know
when
you
talk
achieve
statehood
and
the
americanization
period
from
1896
through
1958
and
the
civic
period
1959
through
1974,
and
we're
on
a
very
limited
amount
of
time
here.
So
I
won't
go
into
a
lot
of
detail
with
this.
Oh
and
the
salt
lake
city
stewardship
grade
1975
through
2021.
A
These
were
really
outlined
in
more
detail
in
the
in
the
report
that
we
provided
to
the
commission
and
if
you
have
any
questions
on
on
these
kirk-
and
I
I'm
assuming-
I
don't
know
if
we're-
if
we
have
enough
time
to
field
questions
after
this,
but
we
would
be
happy
to
so
for
each
of
these
periods.
We've
developed
some
period
plans
so
that
you
can,
you
can
visualize
and
see
what
the
landscape
looked
like
during
each
of
these
periods.
These
are.
These
are
still
fairly
preliminary.
A
A
Just
to
really
roughly
summarize,
going
back
to
those
landscape
characteristics
that
we
were
talking
about
before,
for
example,
during
the
pioneer
period
you
had
the
10
acre
block
that
from
the
original
platyson
it
was
pioneer
park,
was
originally
designated
as
a
public
square
in
that
original
plot
of
zion
by
by
brigham
young,
and
when
the
fort
was
built,
you
had
very
strong
vertical
wall
planes,
defining
the
perimeter
or
spatial
delineation
of
the
block,
and
you
had
you
know
a
series
of
mid-block
circulation
patterns,
a
large
central
common
space.
A
During
the
territorial
period
the
site
was
put
into
cultivation
and
and
included
this
double
row
of
poplars
and
the
canal
system
that
really
worked
to
spatially
define
the
block
and
the
use
of
the
site
at
that
point
was
predominantly
agriculture
and
then,
in
the
americanization
period,
which
I'll
talk
more
about
in
a
bit,
the
site
was
finally
officially
developed
as
a
public
park
and
it
included.
A
You
know
the
development
of
sidewalks
public
sidewalks
park
strips
street
trees
really
strongly
delineating
again
spatially.
The
perimeter
of
the
block
and
the
development
of
a
very
bose
arts
inspired
circulation
pattern,
which
was
fairly
symmetrical
and
formal
and
included.
You
know
both
both
diagonal
and
and
orthogonal
mid-block
circulation
patterns.
Some
of
the
other
features
that
exist
today
are
these
two
tennis
courts,
which
this
one,
the
souther,
the
the
southern
one,
is
actually
or
has
been
converted
to
a
basketball
court.
A
But
those
are
those
remain
from
that
period.
The
vegetation
of
this
period
was
predominantly
manicured,
turf,
grass
and
large
shade
trees,
and
many
of
those
have
survived
to
this
day
and
are
now
amazing,
mature
specimens,
and
then
this
period
also
included
a
pavilion
which
you
can
see
here
at
the
center
of
the
image
and
a
number
of
pool
structures
and
in
the
civic
period.
A
This
really
coincides
with
kind
of
the
decline
of
of
the
urban
condition
in
terms
of
urban
flight
and
people
really
leaving
the
city
center
and,
and
you
kind
of
see,
the
park
kind
of
slide
backwards
a
little
bit.
So
we
had
the
loss
of
some
vegetation,
some
new
vegetation
planted
the
pools
were
the
pool
structures
were
removed
and
replaced
with
a
large
baseball
diamond
in
the
center.
The
circulation
system
really
remained
largely
intact
became
a
little
bit
more
organic.
A
You
had
a
lot
more
desire
lines,
kind
of
weaving
through
the
the
circulation
system
of
the
park,
but
the
vegetation
remains
consistent
in
terms
of
the
style
and
the
composition
of
the
vegetation
again,
the
predominant
use
of
manicured,
turf
grass
and
large
open,
shade
trees
and
a
picturesque
placement,
and
I
don't
know
how
I'm
doing
on
time.
So
so,
just
to
recap,
the
americanization
period
was
really.
A
If
you,
if
you
look
at
the
park
today,
you
really
see
the
americanization
period
the
most
in
what
you
see
in
the
landscape
of
the
park
today,
and
this
is
predominantly
the
vegetation
but
there's
a
lot
of
echoes
from
the
past
in
terms
of
spatial
or
organization
and
very
much
a
lot
of
the
pathways
that
you
see
today
are
the
original
circulation
patterns
that
existed
in
the
park
and
here's
some
here's
some
more
photos
from
the
americanization
period.
A
So
the
top
left
is
a
1911
photo
of
a
drinking
fountain
at
the
center
of
the
park.
The
top
right
image
here
is
a
1911
photo
of
a
of
that
pavilion
that
I
pointed
out
earlier
that
was
kind
of
the
south
central
portion
of
the
park.
A
This
bottom
left
image
here
is
the
the
boys
pool
looking
north
west
across
the
site,
and
here
you
can
see
one
of
those
diagonal
circulation
patterns
coming
in
from
the
corner
very
clearly
and
on
the
right
hand,
I'll
come
back
to
the
center
one
minute,
the
right
hand
image
also
in
a
1912
photo.
You
can
see
the
public
playgrounds
which
are
visible
here
in
this
top
right
image,
as
well.
In
the
background
fun
fact
that
the
pioneer
park
had
the
first
public
playgrounds
in
salt
lake
city.
A
Unfortunately,
these
playgrounds
are
no
longer
existing
on
the
site
and
then
the
central
image
here,
which
was
at
the
on
the
cover
of
this
presentation,
is,
as
I
mentioned,
from
1948,
and
you
can
very
much
see
a
lot
of
the
what
what
I'm
talking
about
in
terms
of
the
spatial
organization,
these
perimeter
street
trees,
these
rows
of
elms
that
are
still
here
today.
A
A
lot
of
the
this
in
some
of
these
internal
trees
have
have
since
matured,
but
very
much
still
exists
today,
the
two
tennis
courts
that
are
existing
and
and
it's
faint,
but
you
can
see
the
circulation
patterns.
You
can
see
the
diagonal
and
you
can
see
the
mid
block
circulation
patterns
and
you
can
also
see
very
faintly
two
kind
of
interior
perimeter
pathways.
A
That
kind
of
follow
that
the
outline
of
the
block
shape.
A
Oh,
I
went
too
far,
so
here's
just
a
few
of
those
existing
photos,
some
of
the
mature
trees,
the
american
elms
on
the
west
side
of
the
block
and
then
a
photo
of
the
one
of
the
or
the
basketball
court,
former
tennis
court.
So
you
can
see
inside
here
the
original
concrete
of
the
tennis
court
and
then,
where
its
been
expanded
at
a
later
date
and
widened.
A
So
this
point
based
on
the
site,
history,
we're
looking
at
the
the
following
draft
significant
assessment.
This
includes
the
indigenous
or
native
american
period,
significant
under
criteria
d.
A
We
we
feel
like
there's
a
very
likely
possibility
that
there
are
archaeological
resources
that
we
don't
yet
know
about
on
the
site
and
and
then
for
the
old
four
period,
significant
for
criteria
a
and
b
the
americanization
period,
significant
under
criteria
a
and
the
civic
period,
significant
under
criteria
aid
and
our
draft
treatment
recommendation
is
rehabilitation
and
that
would
largely
focus
on
preserving
specimen
trees.
So
was,
I
suppose
I
might
have.
I
might
have
boobs,
I'm
not
sure
laura
was
I
supposed
to
talk
about
that.
P
No,
that's
fine
yeah,
the
rehabilitation
is
we're
still
working
out.
Some
of
the
yeah.
Don't
read
the
workspace.
A
A
Recommendations
because
the
yeah,
the
integrity
assessment,
isn't
completely
finalized.
So
obviously
a
lot
of
that
hinges
on
on
the
final
integrity
assessment,
but
yeah,
so
that
is
pioneer
park.
We're
we're
very
excited
to
continue
to
move
forward
on
this
and
yeah.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity.
A
C
What
what
are
our
our
next
steps?
Now?
Where
are
you
exactly
in
the
process
that
I
know
that
your
work
has
been
done?
What
what
are
the
steps
moving
forward.
P
A
Okay,
so
we
are
just
wrapping
up
a
final
draft
submittal,
which
should
hopefully
be
done
tomorrow,
if,
if
not
tomorrow,
definitely
by
monday,
but
yeah.
O
So
then,
that
submittal
will
be
reviewed
by
the
preservation,
team
and
public
lands
and
engineering,
and
then
that
information
will
be
provided
to
the
design
team
to
inform.
We
have
a
consultant
under
contract,
doing
public
engagement
and
design
for
pioneer
parks.
So
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
cultural
landscape
report
preceded
that.
P
Yeah
and
so
what
your
role
will
be
there
is,
you
know,
the
ideas
were
given
this
guidance
to
the
consultant.
Let
them
you
know,
try
to
integrate
it
into
their
plan.
We
will
also
be
giving
you
the
cultural
landscape
report
as
a
guide
with
the
treatment
plan
and
guidelines,
and
then
you
know
the
consultant
will
do
their
very
best
to
to
present
a
plan,
a
a
schematic
design
in
pioneer
park.
P
That's
compatible
with
that
with
those
treatment
recommendations,
and
then
you
will
look
at
it
and
you
know
we'll
probably
have
a
work
session
where
you'll
look
at
it
and
make
comment,
but
right
now
we're
trying
to
get
a
lot
of
robust
public
engagement,
because
that's
there's
sort
of
two
pieces
to
the
management
side
of
this
document.
P
One
is
making
sure
that
it
works
for
the
way
public
lands
maintains
and
manages
the
park
and
then
also
that
we're
hearing
from
the
public
what
they'd
like
to
see
in
the
park
and
then
the
goal
would
be.
We
take
those
things
and
figure
out
how
to
make
them
compatible
with
what
the
historic
landscape
and
again
that
would
all
be
will
be.
That
would
be
based
on
the
integrity
assessment
in
terms
of
what
will,
but
the
degree
of
change
that
the
park
can
tolerate.
C
It's
it's
my
understanding,
then,
that
we
have
covered
the
agenda
items
for
this
meeting.
The
next
regular
meeting
or
regularly
scheduled
meeting
is
2nd
of
september
thursday,
unless
there's
a
special
meeting
scheduled
prior
to
that
time.
C
J
Yes,
mr
chairman,
I
would
like
to
commend
the
group
here
that
has
put
together
this
cultural
landscape
report,
both
in-house
here
at
salt
lake
and
our
consultants
from
salt,
lake
city
and
ogden.
This
is
really
an
epic
body
of
work
and
I
think
we
sort
of
rat
hold
on
an
earlier
project
today
and
perhaps
didn't
give
this
a
consideration
that
it
should.
But
the
chapters
of
this
as
presented
to
us
are
extremely
well
researched
and
I
find
fascinating
a
fascinating
read.
J
So
I
I'd
like
to
to
commend
them
on
a
fabulous
historical
document
that
I
think
will
be
very
useful
for
future
generations
as
pioneer
park
morphs
in
in
and
out
of
its
current
conditions
and
future
needs
of
of
the
city
moving
forward
for
perhaps
the
next
century.
So
I
applaud
you.
Thank
you.
This
has
been
fabulous.
C
Well,
david,
you
kind
of
beat
me
to
it.
I
was
going
to
say
much
the
same.
I
I
really
want
to
dive
into
this
report
much
more
deeply.
I
know
that
that
what
was
talked
about
initially
was.
You
know
there
was
four
steps
I
think
about
three
of
them
in
terms
of
rehabilitation,
restoration
and
so
forth,
I'm
always
always
with
with
parks,
trees.
C
C
That's
that's
really
what
I
want
to
dive
into
the
the
notation
that
you
had
concerning
the
the
different
periods
best,
you
know
absolutely
fascinating,
but
but
since
the
the
territorial
period,
there's
always
been
that
perimeter
of
trees,
that,
I
think
is,
is
what
everybody
initially
thinks
of
when
they
think
of
pioneer
park,
because
those
fantastic
trees
that
enclose
that
center
green
area.