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From YouTube: Planning Commission Meeting - February 09, 2022
Description
Salt Lake City Planning Commission Meeting - February 09, 2022
https://www.slc.gov/planning/
https://www.slc.gov/planning/planning-commission-agendas-minutes/
A
A
A
A
A
A
For
february,
2nd
or
february
9th
2022,
I
will
begin
by
reading
the
announcement
that
I
amy
berry.
Chair
of
the
planning
commission,
hereby
determine
that
the
ongoing
covet
19
pandemic
conditions
existing
in
salt
lake
city,
including,
but
not
limited
to
the
elevated
number
of
cases
that
meeting
at
an
incur
location,
presents
a
substantial
risk
to
the
health
and
safety
of
those
who
would
be
present
with
that.
A
While
you
guys
still
work
on
some
technical
issues,
we
can
jump
into
the
administrative
part,
and
that
is
the
first.
The
report
of
the
chair-
and
hopefully
you
all
noticed
in
your
agenda-
was
a
discussion
that
I
wanted
to
bring
to
the
commissioners
with
regards
to
initiating
a
petition
for
the
planning
division
to
look
at
removing
adus
from
the
conditional
use
process,
and
I
hope
you
all
saw
that
in
the
agenda.
A
I
don't
I'm
not
looking
for
a
lengthy
discussion
right
now,
more
of
just
like
yeah.
That
sounds
good
yeah.
No,
that
doesn't.
This
would
just
be
initiating
a
petition.
It
would
then
go
to
the
planning
division
and
they
would
do
all
the
work
they
do
for
the
public
engagement
process.
A
B
Amy
I
was
thrilled
to
see
this
in
my
packet.
Thank
you
so
much
for
taking
that
initiative.
I
have
felt
that,
given
they
are
conditional
use.
This
is
not
a
good
use
of
commissioner
time
to
go
through
every
single
one
and
I
trust
our
planning
staff.
Our
planning
staff
are
professionals
they're
excellent
at
their
jobs.
So
I
really
don't
feel
these
need
to
come
in
front
of
the
planning
commission.
A
Okay-
and
I
would
just
clarify
the
only
ones
that
come
before
us
are
those
that
are
in
sr
zones
any
other
zones
like
I
live
in
an
rmf
35
zone.
It
would
be
administratively
done,
so
we
don't
see
all
of
them,
but
it
was
so
it
would
kind
of
make
them
all
equal
is
what
this
would
do.
Thank
you,
andrew
any
other
initial
thoughts
from
commissioners.
C
I
just
want
to
jump
in
and
say
that
just
basically
carbon
copy,
what
andrew
just
said
that
I
I
agree
with
the
the
proposal.
The
petition.
A
A
Yeah
they
would,
they
would
be
all
done
administratively,
and
so
maybe
wayne
can
pipe
in
on
what
then,
that
process
would
be
for
the
public
outreach
that
staff
does.
D
A
It
wouldn't
go
to
the
community
council
because
it
would
be
something
over
the
counter
so
to
speak,
but
but.
E
I
think
yeah
wayne
clarify
it's
not
so.
Basically
the
way
that
it
works
is
is
adus,
and
this
is
only
applies
to
adus
in
accessory
buildings,
which
are
detached.
Buildings
from
the
house
in
single-family
residential
districts
require
conditional
use
approval
all
other
districts,
they're
permitted
uses.
So
what
this
would
do
is
this
would
be
a
study.
E
E
A
Okay,
thank
you.
If
someone
is
inclined
in
the
dropbox
there
is
a
motion
wording
to
initiate
this
petition
again.
It
will
then
go
back
to
planning
staff
and
they'll.
Do
the
public
engagement
as
they
do
for
anything
and
then
it'll
come
back
to
us.
There'll
be
a
public
hearing
associated
with
it,
and
we
would
make
a
recommendation
to
the
city
council
who
would
be
the
ultimate
deciders.
B
B
I
move
that
the
planning
commission
initiate
a
petition
to
update
the
adu
regulations
of
the
city
in
order
to
make
all
adu's
permitted
uses
and
make
other
necessary
necessary
changes
to
do
so,
including
changes
to
comply
with
utah
code
changes
adopted
in
2021
and
clarifying
applicable
standards.
So
they
can
be
administered
as
permitted
uses.
A
C
C
A
A
Okay,
thank
you
all
that
just
gets
the
ball
rolling,
we'll
look
forward
to
that
when
it
is
ready
to
come
back
to
us.
Maureen
is
not
here
tonight,
so
we
have
no
report
of
the
vice
chair.
Do
you
have
a
report
from
the
director
wayne.
C
A
C
Sorry,
I
was
just
here
for
the
that
first
part,
but
I
do
have
something
to
report
for
the
for
the
planning
commission
and
I
think
it's
maybe
the
commission
is
aware
of
this
or
not.
But,
as
you
know,
we've
been
going
through
a
number
of
staff
changes
and
for
the
first
time
in
probably
about
15
months,
we
are
going
to
be
fully
staffed,
starting
in
two
weeks
and
the
big
announcement
that
I
wanted
to
make
is
that
we
have
so
many
of
you
know,
joel
patterson,
who
retired
on
december
31st.
C
He
was
our
zoning
administrator
and
that's
a
really
important
position
for
our
city,
and
we
have
filled
that
we're
fortunate
enough
that
we
were
able
to
fill
that
with
maya
lima
who
many
of
you
have
been
on.
The
planning
commission
for
a
couple
years
may
remember.
She
was
a
planner
in
our
office,
she's,
a
native
portuguese
speaker
and
fluent
in
spanish
and
english
as
well
and
actually
of
was
an
architect
in
brazil
prior
to
coming
to
united
states.
C
So
I
want
to
let
the
planning
commission
know
that
we
have
that
position
filled,
and
that
does
impact
some
of
what
you
see,
because
the
zoning
administrator
is
the
person
who
is
charged
with
making
most
of
the
decisions
about
how
the
zoning
code
applies
to
things.
So
just
wanted
to
throw
that
out
and
oh.
A
G
A
C
A
And
adrian,
yes,
okay,
that
motion
passes
unanimously.
Thank
you.
Next
up
is
the
public
hearing
portion
of
the
agenda.
Our
first
item
up
is
stanton
avenue,
additional
building
and
wall
height.
This
is
case
number
pln,
pcm
2021-00976.
H
Hi,
thank
you.
Can
you
see
my
screen
just
make
sure.
H
This
is
a
special
exception
request
on
stan
avenue
for
additional
building
and
wall
height.
It's
the
address
is
321
east
and
avenue.
The
applicants
kevin
and
michael
fairbanks
have
requested
special
exception
approval
for
additional
building
and
wall
height.
The
proposal
is
to
build
four
single
family
attached
units
measuring
approximately
30
feet,
33
feet
tall
with
a
wall
height
of
approximately
28
feet.
Staff
is
recommending
approval
of
the
petition.
H
The
subject
property
is
located
on
an
interior
block
dead
industry.
That's
nearly
seven
thousand
square
feet
in
size,
so
once
subdivided
it
would
permit
four
single
family
attached
units
sitting
on
their
own
1
500
square
foot
lot.
The
property
is
in
the
sr3
special
development
pattern,
residential
zoning
district,
which
permits
buildings
with
a
pitched
roof
to
have
a
building
overall
building
height
of
28
feet,
or
they
can
be
the
average
height
of
other
principal
buildings
on
the
block
face
maximum
wall
height
in
the
zone
is
20
feet
for
pitch
roofs
or
flat.
Roofs.
H
Additional
building
and
wall
height
may
be
granted
through
the
special
exception
process.
If
the
proposal
meets
the
general
special
exception
standards
and
if
the
proposed
building
height
is
in
keeping
with
the
development
pattern
on
the
block
face,
here
are
some
renderings
or
some
drawings
of
the
proposal,
both
the
front
and
the
rear
elevation.
As
well
as
the
side.
H
The
applicant
has
stated
that
the
proposed
height
will
accommodate
the
all
street
parking
which
will
be
lost
when
the
existing
parking
lot
on
site
is
redeveloped.
The
additional
height
also
allows
the
structure
to
have
an
asphalt
roof
which
the
applicant
stated
cannot
be
used
if
the
pitch
is
less
than
three
over
twelve
to
mitigate
the
impacts
of
the
additional
height,
the
building
has
increased
side
yard
setbacks.
H
H
The
definition
of
blockface
does
not
clearly
define
how
to
measure
the
allowable
height
or
setbacks
of
properties
on
a
street
that
do
not
sit
between
two
intersecting
streets,
such
as
stan
avenue,
which
is
considered
a
dead
end.
So
because
stanton
avenue
does
not
have
a
block
face
as
defining
code.
There
is
also
no
development
pattern
to
consider
as
code
and
instructs
us
to
do
while
reviewing
height
or
setback
exceptions
in
the
sr3
zoning
district.
H
So
two
recent
interpretations
determined
that
properties
on
a
dead
end
street
are
not
subject
to
a
development
pattern
as
defining
code,
because
stanton
avenue
is
a
dead
end
averaging
the
height
and
freight
near
setbacks
of
properties
on
the
same
side
of
the
street
is
not
applicable
and
because
the
property
is
not
within
a
recorded
subdivision
plot
that
specifies
allowable
height
or
setbacks.
It
is
subject
to
the
maximums
or
minimums
listed
in
code,
so
based
on
the
definitions
and
interpretations
staff
determined
that
the
maximum
allowable
building
height
for
the
subject,
property
is
28
feet.
H
H
H
This
property
is
unique
because
it's
surrounded
by
zoning
that
does
allow
for
taller
by
right
building
heights.
The
residential
mixed-use
zone,
which
is
just
directly
west
of
the
subject,
property,
allows
a
75
foot
maximum
or
up
to
125
feet
with
a
design
review
approval,
and
then
the
residential
office
zone
to
the
north
allows
a
60-foot
maximum.
Unless
it's
next
to
a
zoning
district
with
a
greater
maximum
building
height
such
as
the
rmu,
then
the
maximum
is
90
feet
and
then
also
the
other
two
zones
that
are
surrounding
the
property
are
a
residential
multi-family
35.
H
So
it's
a
maximum
high
of
35
feet
and
a
residential
multi-family
45,
so
maximum
45
feet
so
staff.
So
I
reviewed
the
surrounding
zoning
district
standards
as
well
as
the
existing
development
pattern.
The
north
side
of
staten
avenue
only
has
three
other
existing
structures.
Two
of
them
are
two
stories,
and
one
is
a
really
short
building
and
the
single
family
home
directly
east
of
the
subject.
Property
is
approximately
30
feet
tall
and
then
the
south
side
of
stanton
avenue
consists
of
historic
bungalows
that
were
built
in
the
early
1900s.
H
Here's
some
photos
of
the
subject
property
on
the
top
of
the
page
right
now.
It's
a
legally
existing
non-complying
four-plex
and
the
parking
lot
is
where
many
of
the
residents
on
stanton
avenue
park,
but
that's
part
of
the
subject,
property
and
would
be
removed
and
on
the
bottom
of
the
screen.
There's
a
60-foot
tall
apartment,
building,
directly
west
of
the
subject,
property
and
also
there's
a
dwelling
on
the
corner
of
stanton
avenue
and
300
east,
which
is
taller
in
height,
and
then
here's
photos
of
the
north
side
of
staten
avenue.
H
The
three
existing
structures
are
on
the
top
and
then
photos
of
the
streetscape
around
the
bottom.
So
you
can
see
this.
The
scale
does
differ
between
very
low
structures
as
well
and
then
moves
up
to
about
60
feet,
and
then
here
are
photos
of
the
south
side
of
stanton
avenue.
All
of
the
homes
on
this
side
are
the
small
bungalows.
H
H
We
worked
really
closely
with
the
applicant
and
they
came
back
multiple
times
based
on
feedback
from
staff,
so
the
over
the
original
request
was
for
a
building
height
of
40
feet
and
the
I
have
the
two
it's
hard
to
see
with
the
elevations,
but
the
two
smaller
elevations
are
the
older
proposals.
H
So
both
proposals
have
smaller
windows.
The
base
started
out
as
a
rock
siding
and
the
is
different
from
40
feet,
so
that
was
a
a
ask
of
12
feet
of
the
additional
building
height
for
a
history
and
then
the
second
iteration
was
for
a
flat
roof
of
32
feet,
but
that
was
still
asking
for
12
feet
of
additional
building
height.
Since
the
maximum
wall
height
in
the
zone
is
20
feet
and
neither
one
of
the
proposals
included
balconies
and
the
porch
was
pretty
much
non-existent.
H
Provides
their
plans
to
include
a
front
porch
which
reflects
the
the
bungalows
on
the
street
and
balconies,
and
so
that
it
complements
the
bungalows
and
then
they're,
also
using
thin
brick
siding
on
the
ground
floor
to
match
the
existing
brick
facades?
H
And,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
the
cyber
setbacks
have
been
increased
to
approximately
seven
feet,
to
provide
a
buffer
and
the
setbacks
in
the
zone
are
four
feet
if
an
if
next
to
a
single
family
or
and
otherwise,
there's
no
setback
required.
H
The
applicant
really
did
a
good
job
of
working
with
staff
to
provide
that
pedestrian
oriented
elements
on
the
building,
which
I
believe,
reduces
the
perceived
scale.
And
then
we
also
went
back
and
forth
on
if
rear
loaded
parking
was
a
possibility.
But
the
site
is
not
wide
enough
to
accommodate
that,
although
it
is
preferable,
but
other.
H
A
All
right,
thank
you,
amanda
commissioners,
questions
for
staff.
A
Okay,
with
that,
I
see
both
of
the
applicants
michael
and
kevin
fairbanks
are
in
the
participant
list.
If
you
can
unmute
yourselves
kevin
and
mike.
J
E
There
you
go,
let's.
C
J
Sure
it
didn't
it
won't.
Let
me
share.
E
C
A
There
we
go
okay,
mr
fairbanks.
You
have
up
to
10
minutes
for
your
presentation.
A
J
Okay,
just
amanda
thanks,
did
a
good
job.
We
worked
very
closely
with
amanda.
We
went
through
several
revisions
of
this.
We
did
want
to
get
it
right,
so
hopefully,
at
the
end,
you'll
see
that
you
know
we
tried
to
hit
that
happy
balance
to
find
the
right
project
for
this
street
right
structure,
but
just
real,
quick,
this
high
level,
but
on
the
right
side.
That's
library
square
over
here
on
the
on
the
other
side.
Is
that
newer
home?
J
Just
to
give
you
a
high
level
view,
the
highlighted
area
is
where
this
building
will
go
that
didn't
work
there.
You
go
just
another
shot
of
the
street.
I
think
one
thing
I
do
want
to
call
out
on
this
street
is
the
height
amanda,
the
height
on
that
we
do
have
benchmark,
did
our
engineering,
but
that
is
a
63
foot
tall
building.
I
think
that's
important
to
note.
That's
looking
west,
that's
the
parking
lot.
She
was
talking
about
looking
east.
J
Just
to
give
you
a
view
of
that
very
similar
to
what
I
think
amanda
was
showing
there
as
well
there's
that
property.
I
think
the
important
thing
on
this
property
right
here.
This
newer
home
is
that
newer
home
is
30
feet,
so
it's
already
two
feet
above
what
code
allows,
and
so
I
think,
that's
important
to
keep
in
mind
as
we
move
forward
just
fyi,
and
I
just
didn't
know
you
guys
probably
familiar
with
this.
This
building
down
here
is
54
feet.
J
You
know,
the
library
square,
like
I
said,
is
63
feet
so
in
the
in
the
neighborhood,
there
are
some
big
buildings,
larger
structures,
this
sketch
here
the
key
thing.
I
think
that
this
shows
that
we
wanted
to
show
is
this
is
to
scale
if
you
look
at
the
dash
dotted
line
going
across.
That's
what
the
new
structure
will
look
like
the
other
structures
right
here
in
the
middle
that
will
be
taken
down,
gives
you
an
idea
of
of
scale
size
and
how
it
might
fit
in
between
those
two
buildings.
J
I
think
the
other
thing
that
is
important
being
that
this
building
63
feet.
It
allows
a
nice
smooth
transition,
like
amanda,
said
down
to
the
home
to
the
east
and
again
I
think
the
other
part
that
I
wanted
to
call
out
on
this
light
is
the
home
on
the
east.
Is
30
feet
tall,
and
so,
if
you
look
at
the
scale
here,
you're
going
from
30
feet,
we
are
asking
for
30
feet.
We
are
asking
for
33
feet,
so
the
difference
between
the
30
and
the
33
really
here
is
three
feet.
J
That's
the
front,
the
back
pretty
standard.
Let
me
just
end
up
and
just
kind
of
go
through
some
of
these
we've
owned
this
property
me
and
my
brother
kevin
we're
the
developers
for
30
years.
We
we
know
what
goes
on
the
street.
There's
been
parking
issues
on
that
street
for
many
years
there
still
is
parking.
You
know
the
bungalows
park
on
the
street.
They
don't
have
any
off
start
off
street
parking.
We
have
had
off
street
parking
and
that's
been
a
nice
thing
to
have.
J
We
want
to
continue
to
have
that,
so
that
was
that
was
important
for
us
in
designing
this.
This
structure,
not
only
you
know
when
people
come
to
rent
one
of
the
first
things
they
want
to
know
how
much
you're
renting
your
place
for
number
two
is:
do
you
have
off
street
parking
and
yeah?
Do
you
have
off
street
parking?
Do
you
have
secure
parking?
J
So
we
feel
like
this
is
a
a
nice
amenity
that
we
want
to
keep
bullet
number
two
asking
for
five
feet:
height
exception
again,
just
a
refresher
just
to
go
over
what
I
just
said,
the
east
house.
We
will
be
three
feet:
higher
36
inches
higher
than
the
east
house.
We
are
30
feet
below
library
square,
the
building
to
the
west
side.
I
know
it's
not
on
the
block
face,
but
it
is
part
of
the
neighborhood
and
it's
it's
a
big
building.
J
Again
it
provides
a
nice
transition
from
the
large
to
the
small
structures.
Actually,
I
think
it
integrates
and
brings
the
larger
and
the
smaller.
I
think
it
just
makes
that
street
look
better.
From
from
the
street
view,
additional
height
was
required
for
increased
setbacks.
Amanda
touched
on
those
a
little
bit,
but
the
bungalows
are
off
set
up.
Their
setback
is
five
feet.
We
designed
this
to
be
seven
feet
and
then
about
two
and
a
half.
Three
weeks
ago
we
found
out
because
it's
a
dead
end.
J
J
J
The
porch
and
patio
came
in
late,
and
that
was
I'll
touch
on
those
in
just
a
minute,
but
those
are
five
feet
deep.
That
was
an
additional
five
feet
that
we
actually
took
off
the
building
as
well,
and
so
really
we've
taken
almost
eight
feet
off
the
front
or
or
off
the
structure
itself
to
be
able
to
accommodate
some
of
the
nice
things
that
we've
actually
added
here.
I'll
talk
about
in
just
a
minute
just
real
quick
on
the
312
pitched
roof,
your
roofing
manufacturers.
J
If
it's
less
than
312,
they
don't
guarantee
their
product,
and
so
it
was
important
for
us.
We,
if
you
go
less
than
that
you're
kind
of
stuck
with
limited
materials.
More
than
likely
you
have
to
have
a
metal
roof,
there's
no
metal
roofs
in
the
neighborhood.
We
want
to
align
with
what's
in
the
neighborhood,
so
it
was
important
for
us
to
be
able
to
get
to
that
312
pitched
roof
which
caused
us
to
go
from
32
to
33
feet.
J
That's
the
33
feet
that
we
came
up
with
we've
added
gables
to
the
roof
line,
to
complement
other
roof
patterns
on
the
street
added
ports,
to
complement
the
design
and
structures
across
the
street
and
the
balconies
to
increase
transparency
and
pedestrian
interactions,
added
pedestrian,
oriented
elements
and
setbacks,
reducing
any
perceived
scale
or
concerns.
J
Just
to
note,
before
you'll
even
enter
the
garage
on
this
property
from
the
back
side
of
the
sidewalk,
it
will
be
15
feet
before
you
even
go
into
the
garage.
So
you
know
we're
we're
we're
not
twice
as
tall
as
the
bungalows,
but
yet
we're
almost
three
times
the
setback
of
what
the
bungalows
are
on
the
street.
J
Some
things
on
the
streets,
some
buildings
on
the
street,
don't
even
have
setbacks.
The
biplex
at
the
very
end
of
the
street
on
the
east
side
sits
right
on
the
street
and
granted.
It
was
built
a
long
time
ago,
but
I
think
the
last
thing
I
really
just
want
to
just
state
here
and
wrap
up
is
you
know
we
are
compatible
with
the
surrounding
development.
J
We
think
that
the
size
we
feel
like
the
design
we
went
back
and
forth
with
many
revisions
with
amanda
on
this.
Looked
at
the
suggestions-
and
I
think
the
key
thing
is
we
listened
and
we
made
changes.
This
has
been
a
very
long
process.
We
think
we've
come
up
with
a
very
good
design,
something
that's
very
nice
for
the
neighborhood,
as
that
adds
value
to
the
neighborhood,
and
I
just
you
know
these-
that
I
put
asterisks
on
on
these
bullet
points.
J
The
proposal
meets
the
general
special
exception
standards
of
approval
and
is
in
compliance
with
the
purpose
of
the
sr-3
zone,
which
is
to
promote
medium
density
development
and
preserve
the
character
of
the
existing
neighborhoods,
and
we
think
we've
done
that.
We
really
do
we've
gone
to
a
lot
of
effort.
Developer
planner
worked
closely
together
to
capture
and
implement
key
values
of
staten
avenue,
and
with
that
that's
happy
to
answer
any
questions
you
guys
have.
A
All
right,
thank
you,
mr
harvings,
commissioner,
is
any
questions
for
the
applicant
at
this
time.
A
Okay
hearing
none
if
you
would
hold
tight,
mr
fairbanks
I'll,
open
up
the
public
comment
period
and
if
anything
comes
up
I'll.
Allow
you
time
to
address
any
comments
sent
that
may
be
raised.
A
Okay,
so
I'm
going
to
open
up
the
public
comment
period.
If
you
are
in
attendance
and
since
we're
having
some
difficulties,
we
get
a
little
extra
time
for
trying
to
accommodate
this,
but
in
the
lower
right
hand,
part
of
your
screen.
There
is
a
hand
that
looks
like
that.
E
This
is
going
to
be
a
little
bit
of
a
cluster
for
a
minute.
I
apologize
kind
of
first
of
all
for
those
of
you
that
are
in
attendance,
if
possible.
E
If
you,
if
you
look
on
your
participants
panel,
you
may
need
to
look
for
a
button
that
says:
participants
and
open
it
up,
be
a
panel
with
participants
and
then,
under
that
your
name,
there
will
be
a
phone
icon,
and
this
will
allow
you
to
request
control
of
the
audio.
If
you
have
that,
and
you
can
do
it
go
for
it.
E
A
Wayne,
can
you
can
you
take
back
control
of
sharing?
I'm
sorry,
can
you
take
back
the
control
of
presenter
rights.
E
Jennifer
nielsen
is
this
something
that
you
would
like
to
speak
on.
You
can
go
ahead
and
speak
now.
Jennifer.
E
Okay,
let's
try.
I.
C
A
Now,
jennifer,
if
you
would
just
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
then
you
have
two
minutes
and
we
can
all
hear
you.
D
Okay,
great,
my
name
is
jennifer
nelson,
hello,
everyone.
I
live
across
the
street,
I
own
the
cute
little
yellow
house,
one
of
the
bungalows
I
want
to
say
to
mike
and
kevin.
I
really
appreciate-
and
I
guess
approved,
not
that
you
need
my
approval,
but
I
like
the
redesigns,
I
think
they
are
very
considerate
of
the
neighborhood.
D
My
biggest
concern
is
has
always
been
the
parking
the
homes
on
the
south
side.
As
mike
said,
there's
no
garages,
there's
no
driveways.
We've
always
used
the
street
parking.
D
This
will
reduce
the
availability
of
parking
that
sometimes
everyone
on
the
street
use,
and
I
know
they'll
provide
parking
for
the
residents
which
is
fantastic,
but
you
know
if
they
have
guests
there
could
be
another
cluster.
D
I'm
wondering
if
the
fairbanks
would
be
willing
to
help
me
put
petition
to
the
city
to
get
that
street
parking
to
permit
parking
so
that
the
people
who
are
actually
living
on
the
street
can
have
a
place
to
put
their
cars.
It
would
be
nice
and
convenient.
D
A
Jennifer,
okay,
if
anybody
else
wishes
to
speak,
you
should
even,
if
we're
having
audio
problems,
you
should
be
able
to
click
that
hand
to
raise
it.
It
lets
us
know.
You
want
to
speak
and
jennifer
now
that
you're
done,
if
you
could
click
that
hand
again,
it
unraises
it
and
helps
us
manage
the
list
a
little
bit
easier.
E
Okay,
I'm
not
seeing
any
other
hands
and
we
have
not
received
any
emails
on
this.
A
We
did
have
a
comment
that
came
in
our
dropbox
earlier,
but
that
was
we
had
access
to
that
earlier.
So,
okay
seen
none
other
hands
raised.
I
will
close
the
public
comment
period
and
bring
it
back
to
the
commission,
mr
fairbanks,
if
you
want
to
just
take
a
minute
to
address
that
question
from
jennifer
that
I'll
allow
that.
J
Yeah,
no,
I
I
get
it
jennifer.
I
appreciate
the
comments
we
agree.
I
I'm
happy
to
help
with
any
kind
of
parking
issues.
We
were
very
familiar
with
them.
One
thing
I
didn't
stay,
you
know
we
do
have
off
street
parking
there.
We've
designed
that
as
part
of
that
design
is
for
a
tandem,
so
we're
going
to
be
able
to
go.
J
We
can't
go
two
cars
wide,
but
we
can
go
two
cars
deep,
but
it
it
it
doesn't
provide
any
more
on
road
parking
which
that's
that's
kind
of
tough
to
do,
because
stanton
just
has
the
one-way
parking
and
it's
all
parallel
parking,
but
we're
happy
to
help
any
way
we
can
to
help
resolve
some
of
those
issues.
That's
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
parking
was
so
important
or
in
the
design
of
the
new
project
is
because
we
know
about
the
parking
issues.
A
Okay,
I
will
look
forward
to
you:
can
reach
out
to
jennifer
as
she
lives
there
and
see
what
you
can
do
with
that
commissioners,
any
last
comments
or
discussion
to
the
applicant
or
staff.
A
Okay
hearing
none,
I'm
open
for
a
motion
from
commissioners.
C
A
Okay,
I
have
a
motion
from
adrian
in
a
second
from
mike:
let's
go
ahead
and
take
a
vote
on
this
john.
C
A
Andrew
yes
and
adrian
yes,
okay,
that
motion
passes
unanimously.
Congratulations,
mr
fairbanks
you're
on
good
to
go
all
right.
Moving
on
you're,
welcome.
Moving
on
our
second
agenda
item
is
the
harvey
at
approximately
five
zero
one:
five
eleven
and
five
thirty
five
fifteen
east
and
twenty
seven
hundred
south.
This
is
case
number
pln,
pcm
2021-01092.
G
Yes,
I
can
great
thank
you.
So
this
is
a
planned
development
and
design
review
for
the
harvey
located
at
the
south.
The
northeast
corner
of
the
intersection
of
500
east
on
2700
cell,
the
applicant,
is
requesting
planned
development
and
design
review
approvals.
You
can
see
the
location
of
the
property
on
the
right.
It
is
located
on
the
north
side
of
2700
south
and
to
the
east
of
500,
east
and
the
nibbly
park.
Golf
course
is
to
the
south
and
the
two
commercial
properties
to
the
west
are
in
south
salt
lake.
G
To
give
you
a
brief
overview
of
the
project,
the
properties
are
located
in
the
cn
or
neighborhood
commercial
zoning
district.
The
sugar
house
master
plan
is
applicable
to
this
area.
The
subject
property
includes
three
existing
parcels
that
have
a
total
area
of
approximately
eighteen
thousand
square
feet.
G
The
proposal
is
for
a
mixed-use
building
with
one
commercial
unit
and
fourteen
residential
units.
The
commercial
unit
is
located
at
the
corner.
Eight
of
the
residential
units
are
townhouse
style.
You
can
see
the
individual
entries
in
the
image
on
the
right
and
then
six
are
apartment
style
units.
The
exterior
materials
are
primarily
brick
veneer
and
then
there
are
some
areas
of
fiber
cement,
siding
in
stucco.
G
G
This
slide
shows
the
site
plan
on
the
left
of
the
layout
of
the
first
floor
with
the
individual
units
as
visible.
Access
to
the
parking
is
from
an
alley
located
north
of
the
site.
The
right
shows
the
overall
site
plan,
including
the
elements
requested
as
part
of
the
plan,
development
and
design
review
requests
with
the
engineering
submittal.
The
applicant
identified
that
the
portion
of
the
alley
along
their
frontage
would
be
improved
with
asphalt.
G
G
As
for
the
requested
modifications,
the
plan
development
request
is
for
several
items.
The
first
is
for
encroachments
in
their
rear
and
buffer
yards.
The
cn
zoning
district
requires
a
ten
foot,
rear
yard
and
a
seven
foot
buffer
yard,
and
these
proposed
encouragements
are
shown
in
the
upper
right
graphic.
The
westernmost
is
a
utility
transformer,
the
most
recent
revised
plans,
that
is
extending
into
the
corner
side
yard
and
one
of
the
conditions
of
approval
restricts
this
to
the
rear
yard.
G
The
request
also
includes
the
trash
enclosure
driveway
and
a
generator
that
are
also
proposed
for
the
rear
and
buffer
yards
and
staff
supports
these
requests.
While
there
are
several
encroachments
proposed
for
the
rear
yard,
this
is
preferable
to
placing
them
in
the
front
or
corner
side
yards
or
potentially
in
the
small
park
strips
additionally,
the
buffer
yard
is
designed
to
provide
additional
space
between
commercial
uses
and
residential
properties,
and
much
of
this
building
is
devoted
to
residential
uses,
and
there
is
a
16-foot
alley
separating
the
property
from
the
single
family
home
to
the
north.
G
So
the
average
elevations
are
shown
on
the
plans
for
each
elevation
and
they
range
from
26
feet
to
29.8
feet.
If
staff
supports
this
request,
the
majority
of
the
building
will
meet
the
25-foot
height
maximum
from
the
street
level.
The
request
for
additional
height
is
needed
to
accommodate
the
below-grade
sunken
patios
and
the
average
height
calculation
that
includes
them.
G
Additionally,
the
height
provided
by
the
applicant
includes
a
parapet
that
extends
one
and
a
half
feet
above
the
flat
roof,
and
the
city
has
an
exception
that
allows
for
a
five
foot
mechanical
equipment,
parapet
wall
which
can
apply
in
this
situation.
The
final
request
is
for
an
increase
in
the
maximum
lot
size
from
the
sixteen
thousand
five
hundred
square
feet
permitted
to
the
approximately
eighteen
thousand
square
foot
area
of
the
combined
three
properties
and
staff
also
supports
this
request.
G
The
proposal
is
for
an
additional
fifteen
hundred
square
feet,
which
is
approximately
a
ten
percent
increase
over
what
is
permitted,
which
is
a
relatively
small
increase.
The
purpose
of
the
zn
district
is
to
provide
for
small
low
scale
commercial
uses
that
are
within
and
serve
residential
neighborhoods,
and
this
proposal
includes
one
small
commercial
unit
and
its
design
is
pedestrian
oriented,
which
is
consistent
with
the
purpose
of
the
zone.
G
G
The
second
request
is
for
the
steel
canopies
that
extend
two
feet
into
the
required
front
and
corner
side.
During
setbacks,
these
extend
from
above
the
windows
and
entries
to
the
building
and
for
residential
properties
there's
an
exception
that
allows
for
this
by
right
and
staff
supports
this,
as
it
creates
shade
shelter
from
the
elements
and
provides
visual
and
pedestrian
interest
on
the
facade.
G
As
identified
in
the
key
considerations,
the
proposal
is
consistent
with
the
city's
adopted
planning
documents.
The
proposed
mixed-use
development
adds
medium
density,
housing
options
in
a
type
that
is
not
common
for
the
area.
Additionally,
the
proposal
has
pedestrian
from
the
elements
that
are
consistent
with
the
desired
policies
in
the
master
plan.
G
As
far
as
the
public
process
staff
set
notice
of
the
proposal
to
the
community
council
and
the
sugar
house,
land
use
committee
met
in
december
to
discuss
the
proposal.
They
also
submitted
a
letter
which
is
included
in
the
staff
report.
Several
residents
have
submitted
comments
and
have
expressed
concern
with
elements
of
their
proposal,
and
their
comments
are
included
with
the
staff
report.
G
Parking
in
its
access
was
the
main
concern
expressed
by
the
residents,
and
there
is
also
one
additional
public
comment.
That's
been
placed
into
the
dropbox
and
staff
recommends
approval
of
the
proposal
with
the
conditions
identified
in
the
staff
report.
If
on
this
slide,
the
applicant
is
here
and
has
a
presentation
and
is
available
to
answer
questions.
Are
there
questions
for
staff?
At
this
point.
A
I
have
some
questions
but
I'll
bring
it
to
the
staff
or
commissioners
first,
if
they
have
anything,
they
want
to
ask
you.
A
No
okay,
then
I'll
I'll
kick
in.
So
let
me
clarify
based
on
what
you
just
said,
so
the
height
of
the
building
wouldn't
change.
If
we
don't
grant
the
height
exception,
basically,
the
sunken
patio
would
be
eliminated.
Correct.
A
G
Right,
it's
it's
basic!
It's
based
on
how
the
city
measures
height
from
this
this
finished
grade
at
that
sunken
patio
level.
So.
A
I
guess
I
want
to
clarify
for
the
neighbors
that
granting
an
additional
five
feet
is
not
going
to
change
the
actual
height
above
ground,
that
is
by
right.
They
have
the
ability
to
do
that.
This
is
literally
below
ground
for
those
sunken
patios.
G
Is
that
correct
right?
I
think
the
graphic
on
the
screen
now
illustrates
that
a
little
bit
better.
Hopefully
it's
big
enough
that
you
can
see
that,
but
from
this
street
level
here,
and
so
this
would
be
facing
this
would
be
at
the
corner.
This
is
the
500
east
facade,
so
it
would
be
26
feet
tall
from
the
corner
here
and
then,
when
you
measure
it
from
that
sunken
garden
level,
patio,
it's
31
feet,
4
inches
and
then
that
26
feet
tall.
G
That
includes
that
one
and
a
half
foot
parapet
above
the
roof.
A
Okay,
yeah
that's
helpful,
and
then
I
just
want
you
to
make
a
brief
comment
on
your
discussion
with
engineering.
I
think
it
was
david
jones
just
to
let
everyone
know
that
you
did
speak
with
them
and
what
that
conversation
was.
It
wasn't
your
staff
report,
but
I
just
wanted
for
the
record
verbally
sure.
G
Let
me
go
ahead
and
go
back
to
a
slide
that
shows
the
site
plan
a
little
bit
better.
This
might.
This
might
be
helpful.
I'm
not
sure
so.
G
You
can
see
that
there's
this
existing
alley
here
and
in
the
applicant
submittal
with
the
engineering
plans
they
identified
that
they
would
be
improving
the
alley
along
their
frontage
with
additional
asphalt
and
that's
included
as
a
condition
of
approval,
and
there
had
been
a
a
request
to
have
additional
improvements
made
on
the
alias
extends
further
to
the
east,
and
that's
not
something
that
the
city
can
require
them
to
to
do.
A
Right
and
so,
though,
I
think
you
also
said
in
your
staff
report,
you
know
there
were
a
lot
of
speculations
of
what
you
know
improving,
like
half
of
an
alley
would
do
and
and
your
discussions
that
came
out
in
your
staff
report,
indicated
that
engineering
had
no
had
no
concerns
that
aligned
with
any
of
the
speculation
that
was
coming
out
from
the
comments.
Is
that
correct.
G
Sure,
right
the
the
comment,
I
think,
with
basically
identifying
that
the
development
should
not
create
or
exacerbate
any
any
issues
that
might
be
present
in
that
area
as
far
as
runoff
or
anything
along
those
lines.
A
B
I
just
want
to
sort
of
ask
a
little
bit
about
this
parking
situation
more
generally,
because
this
has
come
up
repeatedly
in
concerns
about
development,
and
I'm
wondering
I
think
the
last
public
comment
on
the
previous
project
suggested
a
very
good
idea
of.
Maybe
we
should
have
permit
parking
in
certain
areas.
B
I
like
this
idea
because
I
think
what
we
want
to
do
is
sort
of
push
people
on
the
margin
to
take
a
trip
by
some
mode
of
transit
other
than
a
car,
and
I
think,
if
you
make
parking,
just
a
smidgen
more
difficult
that
might
be.
You
know
if
you're
talking
about
somebody
who
oh
well
it'd,
be
a
15
minute
walk
or
I
could
go
and
drive
and
I'd
have
to.
You
know,
find
parking,
and
I
know
that's
going
to
be
difficult.
B
G
I
don't
know
too
much
about
the
permit
parking.
I
think
in
this
particular
for
this
particular
project
just
want
to
mention
that
there
is
a
bus.
Stop
that's
right
here
in
front
of
the
building.
It's
also
you
know
it's
27
south,
and
so
it's
probably
trying
to
do
the
math
quickly
in
my
head.
It's
probably
about
a
half
a
mile
to
the
streetcar
line
as
well.
So
I
think
that
there
are
some
opportunities
for
transit
in
this
area
as
well.
B
Yeah,
I
think
I
am
sympathetic
the
neighbors
concerned-
that
if
we
don't
sort
of
push
the
people,
I
mean
just
push
them
a
little
bit
into
making
it
a
little
more
difficult
to
park.
You
know
even
myself,
sometimes
I'm
tempted
to
take
a
car,
even
if
I
know
for
everybody
involved
to
be
better
if
I
walked
or
took
transit.
I
anyway
just
something
to
put
out
there
that
I'd
love
to
see
permit
parking
instead
of
everybody
just
gets
to
park
wherever
they
want.
The
city.
A
So
I'll
put
that
on
my
list
to
talk
to
them
in
the
future,
about
okay,
any
other
questions
for
staff.
All
right.
Let's
move
on
to
the
applicant,
I
think
we
have
david
anderson
who
is
in
the
participant
or
in
the
attend
yeah
he's
in
the
participants
list.
Mr
anderson,
do
you
need
presenter
rights
for
a
presentation
you
want
to
share.
K
You
know
that'd
be
great.
Can
you
have
my
audio
here.
K
And
I
apologize,
I
don't
see
a
button
for
video.
I
hate
to
be
the
person
on
the
screen
behind
the
black
box
there,
but
at
the
moment
I'm
not
seeing
that
that
option.
A
Yeah
you
should
be
able
to
share
your
screen,
and
your
video
would
button
would
be
in
the
very
bottom
middle.
Oh.
K
C
A
K
Let's
get
this
one
over
here
and
just
a
moment
as
we
move
some
things
around
here:
okay!
Well,
thanks
very
much
for
the
the
questions
and
the
comments,
and
I
I
really
appreciate
it.
It's
very
apparent
that
the
planning
commission
team
has
delved
into
this
project
and
it
is
a
little
bit
complex.
K
So
we
appreciate
the
effort
that
went
in
and
sarah
excellent
job
describing
the
somewhat
complex
issue
here,
and
I
appreciate
you
taking
the
time
so
a
few
of
the
the
early
questions
that
came
in
permanent
parking.
I
am
also
a
fan
of
permanent
parking
for
residential
areas.
I
lived
in
the
pierpont
lofts
a
while
back,
and
that
was
a
concern
there
as
well,
so
for
what
it's
worth,
I'm
I'm
a
proponent
of
of
that
this
project
specifically
has
all
off
street
parking.
K
So
we
hope
to
minimize
the
the
parking
impact
on
on
this
area
in
the
neighborhood.
K
So
dave
anderson
principal
with
babcock
design
group,
I'm
joined
by
elena
kowalczyk,
the
lead
designer
on
this
project,
and
really
she
deserves
the
credit
for
this
project.
She
knows
it
inside
and
out,
and
if
there
are
particular
questions
I
imagine
she
will
jump
in
and
keep
me
from
going
astray.
In
addition,
we
have
alec
myers
and
tyler
macarthur,
who
are
the
owners
of
this
project,
I'm
going
to
give
a
an
introduction
to
this
project,
but
we
really
would
like
to
save
some
time
for
the
two
of
them.
K
You
know
as
the
owners
of
this
unique
property.
Let
them
speak
to
it
and
and
give
you
their
very
passionate
opinions
on
on
the
project
as
we're
all
familiar.
Salt
lake
is
growing
at
an
unprecedented
rate.
Over
the
past
few
years,
salt
lake
valley
has
experienced
an
annual
housing
deficit
of
somewhere
in
the
area
of
five
digits
and
and
that's
you
know,
annual
that's
every
year.
K
As
a
result,
we've
seen
in
this
area
a
lot
of
sort
of
very
towering
residential
developments
come
up
with
the
first
few
floors
designated
for
parking,
and
the
construction
of
these
for
rent
products
typically
lead
to
kind
of
the
lowest
construction
costs
possible.
Just
based
on
simple
economics.
Now
as
an
architect
watching
this
city
as
the
city
evolve,
I
I've
always
had
a
little
bit
of
heartburn,
well
considerable
heartburn
with
that
approach.
That
approach
is
a
solution
to
a
problem
which
is
housing
density.
K
This
this
project
is,
is
not
that
approach.
It's
been
quite
refreshing
to
work
with
alec
and
tyler
at
every
turn,
they're
really
focused
on
the
attention
to
how
to
build
community
here,
integrating
the
form
and
the
design
into
the
fabric
of
the
specific
neighborhood.
You
know
walking,
walking
the
site
and
and
understanding
what
the
what
the
impacts
would
be,
both
potentially
positive
and
potentially
negative.
K
This
project
is
consistent
with
the
sugar
house
master
plan
and
planned
salt
lake,
and
over
the
past
few
months,
we've
worked
with
sarah
and
her
team
in
the
neighborhood
council
trying
to
modify
the
plans
and
incorporate
features
requested
by
those
in
entities
and
and
also
address
public
comments
in
general.
This
is
a
small
scale,
low-intensity
residential
product.
K
You
know
these
are
not
those
podium
projects
of
fourth
south
with
two
stories
of
parking,
and
you
know
four
to
five
to
six
to
whatever
stories,
above
that
this
is
it
intended
specifically
to
meet
the
both
the
historic
and
the
aesthetic
aspects
of
this
neighborhood.
You
know,
historically,
these
were
one
to
two
story:
buildings
primarily
made
out
of
brick,
and-
and
we
want
to
respect
that-
that
history
here,
so
it's
a
human
scale
right.
K
This
is
a
this-
is
the
intent
is
to
have
a
walkable
community
here
and
to
have
people
be
able
to
relate
to
the
scale
of
the
buildings
that
are
adjacent
here.
This
project
only
consists
of
14
units
15.
If
you,
if
you
count
the
commercial
unit,
that's
at
the
corner
of
the
building,
which
is
also
sort
of
the
historical
use
of
the
site,
so
there's
there's
one
commercial
unit,
there's
eight
townhouses
and
six
apartment
style
condominiums,
and
I
should
say
this
is
a
this
is
a
you
know.
K
I
use
the
word
condominium.
This
is
a
for
sale,
product
and
that's
sort
of
important.
That
means
a
few
things
that
that
means
that
the
occupants
of
these
spaces
are
the
owners
of
this
space
and
they
will,
as
such,
take
pride
in
and
take
responsibility
for
the
maintenance
and
upkeep.
You
know,
there's
peeling
paint,
hey
that's
on
me.
I've
got
to
take
care
of
that.
That's
not
that
other
guy.
You
know
that
landlord
who
we're
requesting
to
do
some
maintenance
services
here
you
know
the
not.
K
My
job
aspect
is
not
what
this
product
is
about.
It's
about.
You
know,
let's,
let's
take
care
of
of
our
own
area
here
and
build
this
community
in
this
neighborhood
and
in
addition,
as
a
for
sale
product,
the
owners
are
asking
people
to
make
a
big
commitment
here
right.
This
is
not
I'm
going
to
rent
this
for
six
months
and
then
leave,
and
you
know
it
doesn't
really
matter.
K
You
know
what
what
the
finishes
are,
what
the
materials
are,
how
how
I
like
this
place,
we're
asking
people
to
you
know,
invest
to
a
large
degree
and
and
call
this
their
home
and,
as
a
result,
we
need
to
hit
a
higher
point
on
the
market.
We
need
to
hit
a
higher
level
of
materials.
You
look
at
this
project
and
it
is,
you
know,
90
percent,
brick
on
the
exterior.
K
You
know
it's
built
at
the
historic
scale.
It
tried
to
keep
with
that
that
character
of
the
neighborhood
and
try
to
try
to
minimize
the
impact
of
sort
of
additional
development.
Here
there
was
a
lot
of
love
talk
about
parking
early
on
in
the
conversation
and
at
significant
expense.
K
The
owners
have
decided
to
go
with
sort
of
a
novel
approach
to
the
parking
here.
There's
no
field
of
parking,
there's
no
exposed
parking
at
all
here.
All
of
the
parking
is
enclosed
within
the
building
not
screened
off,
but
but
really
actually
enclosed
within
the
building.
K
There's
a
automated
parking
system
that
opens
onto
the
alley
so
residents
would
drive
into
an
enclosed
area
and
then
onto
an
automated
deck
that
they
will
drive
onto
a
specified
location,
get
out
of
their
car,
and
then
the
automated
system
will
park
the
cars
for
them
in
a
highly
dense
area
so
that
we
can
limit
the
amount
of
parking
or
limit
the
amount
of
area
that's
designated
for
parking,
which
you
know
as
you
look
at
the
fabric
of
our
city
boy.
Wouldn't
that
be
a
great
thing.
K
Let's
limit
the
amounts
of
asphalt,
solar
heat
gain
the
the
amount
of
area
that's
designated
just
for
the
automobile.
That's
that's
really
quite
a
goal
of
this
project.
K
F
I'll
I'll
just
say
something
real
quick,
you
guys
can
hear
me.
I'm
tyler,
macarthur
dave
just
did
a
great
job,
presenting
I'll
hit
on
two
things:
real,
quick
that
dave
hasn't
gone
hasn't
mentioned.
Yet
one
is
that
this
is
going
to
be
an
all-electric
building.
We
believe
in
sustainable
development.
One
of
those
things
is
not
using
fossil
fuels
on
site.
We
like
that
we're
trying
at
considerable
expense
to
make
this
an
all-electric
building,
which
does
require
more
expensive
hvac
systems.
F
But
that's
just
another
thing
that
we're
working
on.
The
second
thing
that
I
would
point
out
is
to
try
to
keep
it
consistent
with
the
existing
neighborhood
we've
actually
looked
at
we've
tried
to
match
the
brick
color
to
the
traditional
brick
colors
that
are
used
in
utah
or
residential
construction,
or
that
were
used.
F
So
alec,
I
like
your
last.
If
there's
anything
that
dave
or
I
have
not
mentioned-
I
I
think
you
guys
have
hit
it
almost
on
the
head.
I
think
you
know
tyler,
and
I
are
you
know
kind
of
young
and
you
know
tend
towards
idealistic
visions,
and
sometimes
you
know
when
you're.
Actually,
the
rubber
hits
the
road.
You
know
you
kind
of
have
to
readjust,
and
we've
tried
our
best
to
stick
to
some
of
the
these
original
goals.
You
know
like
keeping
it
for
sale
and
keeping
it.
F
You
know
relatively
consistent
with
you
know
the
history
and
the
current
uses
of
the
neighborhood,
and
you
know
when
we
set
out
with
the
original
design
sketches
with
babcock
design.
We
you
know,
we
really
wanted
to
have
as
many
of
these
units
kind
of
face
the
street
as
possible.
We
were
kind
of
replicating
this.
You
know
this
urban
townhouse
style
that
you
see
in
you
know
very
charming
and
desirable,
neighborhoods
of
boston
and
new
york
and
stuff.
You
don't
see
much
of
that
in
salt
lake.
We
want
we.
F
We
believe
that
it's
a
product
that
adds
a
lot
to
the
neighborhood
as
well.
As
you
know,
not
just
you
know,
for
the
owners,
but
it
has
a
lot
of
spillover
effects
and
we're
really
proud
of
how
far
we've
gotten
in-
and
you
know-
and
one
thing
is
to
note-
is
that
most
of
the
the
requests
that
we're
going
for
they're
they're,
they're
kind
of
minor
technicalities
right
like
this,
the
spirit
of
the
law
that
we've
tried
to
respect
here
is
you
know
the
height
of
the
building
is
has
which
has
already
been
mentioned.
F
Is
you
know,
essentially,
what's
allowed
by
by
the
by
the
zoning
and
where
the
building
faces
fit
relative
to
the
street?
You
know
are
essentially
by
rights,
you
know,
and
so
most
of
these
minor
exceptions
have
been
to
hopefully
promote
better
urban
design.
You
know
and
get
something
better
to
the
neighborhood.
You
know
by
allowing
these
you
know
these
these
patios
and
these
stairwells
and
trying
to
route
the
traffic
around
off
the
back.
You
know,
rather
than
cutting
extra
curb
cuts
into
27,
south
or
50th.
A
Thank
you,
mr
myers.
That's
time
for
you
guys.
I
appreciate
your
comments.
I'm
going
to
ask
commissioners
if
they
have
any
questions
for
the
three
of
you
at
this
time,.
A
Okay,
hearing
none
one
quick
question:.
C
C
F
That's
a
good,
that's
a
good
question:
it
is
a
condominium
unit,
it's
one
of
15
and
so
it's
going
to
be
part
of
the
same
condominium
owner
association
and
it's
going
to
be
owned
by
the
business
that
moves
in
you
know,
and
so
it's
hard
for
us
to
project.
You
know
by
the
time
this
is
being
sold
a
year
from
now
like
who's
going
to
buy
it
or
what
their
business
is.
But
you
know
we've
already
had.
F
We've
had
multiple
businesses
already
reach
out
and
just
say:
there's
nothing
like
this.
I
would
love
to
buy
this.
You
know
everybody's
stuck
in
these
leases.
You
know
they're
they're,
paying
rent.
You
know,
they're,
subject
to
having
that
go
up
or
having
your
business,
you
know,
relocated,
you
know,
as
the
as
the
lease
terms
become
egregious
you
know,
and
as
a
bus
as
a
small
business
owner
being
able
to
you
know,
control
your
your
costs,
build
equity
and
you
know
there's
also
tax
advantages
as
a
small
business
owner,
and
so
the
space
is
not
large.
F
It's
about
a
thousand
square
feet
or
a
little
over
a
thousand
square
feet.
You
know
but
it'll
contain,
you
know
two
different
entrances
off
both
streets.
You
know
there
will
be
some
storage
space
and
a
private
bathroom,
and
you
know
some
nice
attractive
windows.
It
might
be
a
small
architecture,
firmware
accounting
office.
It
could
be
a
hair
salon.
I
mean
there's
it's
hard
for
us
to
know,
but
yes,
it
is
going
to
be
for
sale
to
the
owner
of
that
of
whatever
business
takes
takes
the
space.
F
A
Okay,
hearing
none,
I'm
going
to
have
you
guys,
hang
tight,
we'll
open
the
public
comment
period
and
if
there
are
any
things
that
require
you
to
address
from
the
public
comments
I'll.
Allow
you
some
time
to
do
that,
I'm
going
to
open
the
public
comment
period
and
just
give
some
initial
instructions.
If
you
are
in
attendance,
please
hit
that
hand
button
at
the
bottom
right,
and
that
indicates
that
you
wish
to
speak
and
we
will
work
through
any
technical
difficulties
to
make
sure
you
get
your
voice
heard
tonight.
A
If
the
worst
case
scenario,
you
submit
some
written
comments
via
email
to
planning.comments
at
slcgov.com
that
is
being
monitored
as
we
speak
and
we'll
be
able
to
at
least
read
any
comments
into
the
record.
If
we
can't
overcome
the
audio
that
we
may
have
difficulties
on
we'll
begin
public
comments
with
the
sugar
house,
community
council
and
then
we'll
open
it
up
to
other
attendees
when
you're.
This
is
not
a
back
and
forth
q
a
so.
If
you
do
have
questions,
that's
fine
you'll
have
two
minutes
to
speak.
A
You
can
say
what
you
want
and
ask
any
questions,
but
I
will
pose
those
questions
after
the
public
comment.
Period
is
closed,
so
they
will
get
addressed
and
I'll
write
them
down
during
your
talk.
So
if
we
want
to
go
ahead
and
start
judy,
you
are
going
to
be
first
up
right
right.
There
you
go
yeah,
we
can
hear
you.
L
It's
right
interesting
process
you
have
here,
I
have
to
say
I
really
like
this
project.
You
know
it
looks
like
the
neighborhood
commercial
that
we've
had
in
all
our
neighborhoods
for
a
long
long
time,
this
one's
even
brown
like
the
wonderful
building-
that's
been
there,
for.
I
bet
that
building's
been
there
80
years,
selling
refrigerators
and
things
like
that.
A
couple
of
things
that
we
have
a
little
bit
of
angst
about
one
is
the
reduced
five
foot
setback
in
the
front
due
to
the
the
gardens
on
the
2700
south
side.
L
L
I
don't
know
where
I
heard
that
the
bottom
units
of
those
could
be
sold
separately
or
rented
out
sort
of
like
an
accessory
dwelling
unit.
That
they're
probably
have
a
separate
bathroom
and
kitchen,
and
that
immediately
brings
up
the
issue
of
parking,
because
that
would
mean
three
more
cars
and
if
any
of
you
gone
around
the
neighborhood,
there
is
no
parking
on
the
neighborhood.
That's
part
of
why
the
neighborhood
is
is
worried
about
you
know
if
somebody
has
a
guest,
where
are
they
going
to
park
two
blocks
away?
L
E
Okay,
next
is
steph
and
brandon.
If
you
would
also.
E
Okay,
they
did
send
in
I'm,
gonna
come
back
to
them
and
since
you
they
also
emailed
comments.
A
Okay,
so
let's
we'll.
E
J
So
I'm
daryl
newbold
and
a
long
time
resident
of
the
neighborhood
we've
been
here
now
over
50
years,
and
some
of
the
neighbors
have
been
here.
60
our
homes
are
92
years
old
and
our
concerns
are
a
lot
of
different
concerns
back
in
the
30
years
ago,
in
1990
we
closed
off
the
alley
horizontally
and
we
worked
down
and
we
down
zoned
the
neighborhood
to
r1500
and
1700,
and
so
I
was
surprised
when
all
sudden
511
east
on
27th
south
pops
up
to
be
commercial.
J
When
back
then,
when
we
worked
through
with
the
attorney's
office,
we
got
the
the
seventh
east
would
be
done.
The
running
store
and
the
gas
stations
and
this
little
market
that
used
to
be
on
the
corner
would
be
the
only
ones
that
way
and
then,
when
ken
died,
all
of
a
sudden.
Now
all
this
has
changed
when
he
has
the
planet
score
went
up.
My
our
concern
is:
is
I've
been
in
the
property
management
business
now
for
39
years,
and
this
is
not
going
to
be
an
hoa
type
issue?
J
They
we
have
concerns
that
these
homes
are
gonna,
be
five
and
six
cars
per
dwelling
because
of
the
you
know,
two
family
plus
one
and
they
and
they
only
some
of
these
are
only
getting
one.
Car
we've
had
so
many
close
calls
of
drivers
on
fifth
500
east
there
on
27th,
we've
had
to
re
mark
the
street,
and
we
had
the
street
department
come
out
for
three
years
trying
to
get
that
worked
out.
A
That's
time
that's
renewable
and
I
and
I
we
did
get
your
comments
in
the
staff
report,
so
we
we
are
familiar
with
the
rest
of
your
comments.
So
thank
you
and
you
want
to
cycle
back
to
stefan
brandon
yeah.
A
Go
ahead,
I
know
we
also
have
an
additional
email
comment
to
be
read:
let's
do
that
and
give
them
and
then
maybe
move
them
into
the
participant
list
and
see
if
that
helps.
E
E
The
backyards
of
several
houses
to
the
east
will
be
overlooked
by
the
project,
and
the
requested
height
will
cause
privacy
issues
so
that
should
not
be
granted.
There
also
needs
to
be
some
mechanism
for
continued
upkeep
of
the
alley,
as
it
will
be
used
by
both
the
project
and
neighbors.
That
was
from
lynn,
schwartz.
C
C
The
only
one
would
be
from
stephanie,
and
so
if
we
can
make
her.
E
A
Yes,
let's
read
their
email
comments
and
then
note
there
was
extensive
email
exchanges
in
our
staff
report
from
them
in
the
co
in
the
public
comments
section,
so
we've
had
access
to
an
ongoing
discussion.
They've
had
with
sarah
as
well
as
whatever
they
provided
tonight.
E
E
My
name
is
brandon
darr
and
I
live
at
517
east
2700,
south
the
house
directly
east
of
the
proposed
harvey
plan.
My
house
is
112
years
old,
so
my
worries
are
many.
I
will
be
speaking
about
a
very
important
one,
I'm
referring
to
the
alley
on
the
north
end
of
the
harvey
that
runs
from
500
east
to
park
street.
E
In
our
case,
it's
the
only
access
to
our
home
and
is
already
in
disrepair.
I
understand
and
have
no
problems
with
making
room
for
others
in
such
a
thriving
city.
Facts
are.
The
harvey
will
already
take
up
approximately
half
of
the
alley.
Both
sides
of
the
alley
will
be
vital
access
for
construction,
materials
and
machinery.
The
inhabitants
of
the
harvey
will
also
use
both
sides
of
the
alley.
It
is
unrealistic
to
assume
that
all
of
our
neighbors
will
just
use
some
of
the
alleyway.
E
E
E
Excuse
me:
it's
a
100
foot,
long,
30
foot
tall
wall
will
stand
11
and
a
half
feet
from
my
120
year
old
home
112
year
old
home,
my
husband
and
I
will
never
enjoy
another
spring
or
summer
sunset
from
our
porch
or
backyard
after
the
harvey
cassette
shadow
over
95
of
our
property.
But
for
today's
meeting
I'll
focus
my
my
objection
on
the
proposed
alley
use.
E
I
am
begging
this
commission
to
put
the
alley's
condition
and
use
at
the
top
of
the
priority
list
and
that
you
deny
the
harvey's
proposal
as
it
currently
exists.
This
alley
is
the
only
way
for
me
and
three
of
my
neighbors
to
access
our
properties.
Now
this
access
will
be
shared
with
14
homes
and
one
business.
This
massive
change
in
access
needs.
E
This
massive
change
in
access
needs
better
analysis
and
further
discussion
developers
will
tell
you,
as
they
told
me,
that
the
that
they
predict
future
residents
of
the
harvey
will
only
drive
on
the
half
of
the
alley
directly
to
the
north
of
their
property
along
500
east,
as
their
entrance
and
exit
point
in
condition
of
approval
number
four
of
the
staff
report.
The
developer
has
already
been
compelled
to
pave
in
front
of
their
property
due
to
the
current
state
of
the
alley.
E
So
why
aren't
they
being
compelled
to
pave
the
entire
alley?
The
intersection
at
500,
east
and
2700
south
is
already
a
busy
one,
and
harvey
residents
will
take
advantage
of
the
east
alley
access
to
park
street.
To
avoid
the
busy
intersection,
the
harvey's
added
traffic
will
be,
what
creates
the
rapid
deterioration
of
the
entire
alleyway.
So
again,
why
aren't
the
developers
being
compelled
to
pave
the
entire
alley
if
the
city
can't
compel
them
to
pave
the
whole
thing?
E
Will
the
city
then
take
a
vested
interest
in
the
alley
and
pave
the
rest
of
it
themselves?
Will
it
be
added
to
their
routes
for
snow
plowing?
What
is
to
be
the
rule
of
the
alley?
Who
has
the
right-of-way
on
this
alley?
Does
it
become
a
one-way?
Will
there
be
signs
about
illegal
parking?
Will
they
enforce
compliance?
E
A
Okay,
and
given
that
you
read
in
those
comments
that
exceeded
two
minutes
in
length,
I
feel
like
we've,
given
a
fair,
a
fair
amount
of
time.
What
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that,
even
though
we
can't
overcome
the
audio
for
steph
and
brandon,
in
addition
to
the
comments
they
had
in
our
dropbox,
I
feel
like
we
all
have
a
very
good
understanding
of
what
their
concerns
are,
so
any
other
hands
raised
wayne.
E
A
Okay-
and
I
do
see
steph
and
brandon's
latest
note
in
the
q
a
so
you
are
welcome
all
right
with
that,
I'm
going
to
close
the
public
comment
period.
A
I
actually
think
some
of
the
things
that
were
brought
up
are
really
more
of
a
staff
thing
to
address,
but
one
thing
for
the
applicant
that
the
community
council
questioned
was:
would
those
bottom
units
become
adus
and
you
can
take
a
minute
to
respond
to
that?
If
you
would
please
david
alec
or
tyler.
F
I'll
speak
to
this,
just
for,
let's
see
yeah
less
than
a
minute.
Future
owners
of
the
properties
are
going
to
be
subject
to
the
exact
same
adu
rules
that
everybody
else
in
the
city
is,
and
I
do
not
believe
that
that's
the
permitted
use
in
the
cn
zone.
They
are
not
considered
separate
rental
units.
It's
simply
a
single
residential
unit
that
has
a
separate
entrance
at
the
bottom,
for
flexibility.
Think
of
the
five
that
face
27
south
three
of
them
are
being
completed
with
bedrooms,
kitchenettes,
etc.
F
The
intention
is
that
we
we've
met
lots
and
lots
of
people
who
would
like
to
have.
You
know
space
for
their
their
in-laws
to
stay
for
the
weekend
or
things
like
that.
So
the
idea
is
to
add
privacy
and
flexibility
to
people's
personal
homes.
You
know
that's
that's
essentially.
What's
going
on
they're,
not
designed
technically
as
separate
rental
units.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
sarah.
I
know
you
said
this
in
your
in
your
report
that
we
can't
compel
them
to
do
the
pave
the
whole
alley.
Will
you
just
clarify
the
process
by
which
a
homeowner
can
petition
or
or
apply
to
vacate,
an
alley
which
is
an
option
for
the
any
of
those
homeowners
along
that
street?
Yes,.
G
Sure
the
city
does
have
a
process
for
that.
We
do
have
an
application,
that's
on
our
website.
So
if
you
go
to
the
same,
the
slc.gov
and
then
planning
and
then
applications,
there's
an
alley
vacation
or
closure
application,
and
that
is
something
that
they
could
submit.
We
definitely
recommend
that
they
talk
with
staff
about
that
first
and
just
kind
of
go
over
any
potential
issues
and
what
they
think.
What
they'd
like
to
kind
of
have
happen
with
the
property.
G
That
kind
of
thing
also
an
alley
closure
is
something
that
would
be
reviewed
by
the
planning
commission
and
then
the
decision
on
it
would
be
up
to
the
city
council.
A
A
It's
not
crucial.
I
was
just
curious,
so
that's
something
that
if,
if
the
applicant
and
or
the
neighbors
wanted
to
pursue,
they
could
do
that
separately
anyway,
with
the
with
the
planning
division.
So
all
right,
commissioners,
any
questions
or
comments
at
this
time
for
the
applicant
or
staff.
C
I
would
like
to
in
san
diego
I'm
sure.
F
Taking
care
of
that
alley,
you
know
if
they
might
be
willing
to.
C
Earn
the
graces
of
the
neighbors
that
have
this
issue,
especially
with
the
with
the
little
patios
that
I
on
the
south
side
that
seem
to
take
away
some
of
the
atmosphere
that
the
neighbors
had
you
know
for
obviously,
for
many
years,
perhaps
they
might
be
able
to
respond
to
that.
A
F
Yeah
go
ahead.
Taylor.
Oh
tell
me
if
you're
on
the
same
page
as
me,
but
my
my
my
response
to
that
would
be
that
right
now,
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we've
tried
to
do
to
meet
the
the
parking
requirements
and
to
make
this
a
multi-modal
type
of
transportation
project.
F
Is
it's
it's
the
sort
of
thing
where
we
put
a
lot
of
our
budget
towards
the
parking
stuff.
The
parking
garage
is
an
expensive
item
to
build
on
site
and
especially
the
automated
parking
system.
In
order
to
get
all
of
the
the
parking
stalls
required
by
the
city,
though
those
are
much
more
expensive
than
surface
parking.
F
So
from
a
budget
stand
from
a
budget
standpoint,
we
just
really.
We
simply
don't
have
have
the
funds
to
do
that
sort
of
thing.
We
it's
the
sort
of
requirement
that
would
likely
kill
the
project.
Although
I
definitely
sympathize-
and
I
feel
like
it's
something
that
we
would
like
to
do-
having
gone
over
the
budgets
minutely
on
this
project
and
doing
all
sorts
of
things
like
the
the
additional
brick
on
the
facades,
the
automated
parking
systems,
the
all-electric
hvac
systems.
F
These
are
significant
costs
that
we've
incurred
to
try
to
create
a
better
project
and
as
as
much
as
I
agree
with
the
the
assessment
that
it
is
something
that
would
be
nice
to
do
it's
something
that
it's
not
on
the
budget.
We
can't
afford
to
do
to
do
everything.
So
it's
something
that
just
probably
can't
happen
on
this
project
as
sad
as
that
is.
A
Okay,
I'm
gonna
kind
of
take
it
to
the
commission
now
I'll
pipe
in
a
little
bit
here.
I
I
live
with
an
alley
behind
my
house
that
I
have
garage
access
to
and
the
elder
there's
an
lds
church,
two
story
with
a
parking
lot
behind
right
behind
my
house.
A
They
don't
own
the
alley,
but
they
pave
the
upper
part
and
their
parking
lot
and
then
below
that
is
parking
for
the
postal
service
employees.
So
my
alley
is
really
active
and
that
part
down
there
is
not
paved
and
it
never
has
been
the
whole
23
years.
I've
lived
here
so
we
I
have
a
half
and
half
situation
going
on
and
I
have
a
very
active
alley
given
all
of
the
uses
with
employee
parking
residents,
there's
an
apartment
building
just
to
the
west.
A
That
also
many
of
the
tenants
use
that
for
their
parking
and
we
all
seem
to
work
out
fine
it
doesn't.
It
hasn't
created
any
any
like
environmental
issues
or
even
sharing
the
the
alleyway
with
all
of
them.
So
I
I
I
think
I
have
like
a
unique
understanding
of
kind
of
how
that
plays
out,
and
it
hasn't
been
an
issue
for
my
neighborhood.
That
said,
I
know
it
can
be
a
little
hard.
A
I
did
go
out
to
this
site
and-
and
I
drove
the
alley
it's
in
better
condition
than
the
west
part
of
my
alley.
That's
not
maintained,
but
517
is
using
they're
the
only
ones
using
it
within
the
block
within
that
that
part
from
500
east
to
park
street
to
access,
but
that
that
is
they
are
using
that
for
to
get
to
park
in
their
backyard,
and
I
don't
think
that
that
would
be
prohibited
and
you
also
have
access
via
park
street
as
it's
not
a
two-way
or
not
a
one-way
at
this
time.
A
You
know
some
fear
about
what
this
could,
because
it
is
different,
but
it
hasn't
been
an
issue
at
all
for
my
street
and
I
have
a
longer
alley
than
you
do
so
just
give
that
some
consideration.
A
I
just
wanted
to
put
that
in
that.
I
did
go
check
this
out
and
I
have
been
thinking
about
it
in
relationship
to
the
situation
that
exists
behind
my
house,
but
with
that,
if
commissioners
have
any
other
things
they
want
to
discuss
or
items
they
want
to
bring
up.
Otherwise,
I
would
entertain
a
motion.
C
Two
approval
is
for
the
specific
items
discussed
and
identified
in
the
staff
report.
All
other
applicable
zoning
regulations
and
requirements
from
other
city
departments
still
apply.
Three.
The
developer
will
need
to
record
against
the
property
an
estimate
of
the
cost
for
maintenance
and
capital
improvements
of
all
infrastructure
for
the
planned
development
for
a
period
of
60
years.
In
compliance
with
21a
55
110,
disclosure
of
private
infrastructure
costs
for
planned
developments
for
the
developers
shall
submit
preliminary
and
final
plats
for
review
five.
C
A
C
A
C
A
A
K
A
A
All
right,
thank
you
that
motion
passes
unanimously,
so
david
alec
and
tyler.
Congratulations
and
you
can
move
forward
on
your
project.
A
Thank
you
for
coming
tonight
and
thank
you
for
the
public
for
participating,
we'll
move
on
to
the
last
item
on
our
agenda
and
well
for
the
public
hearing
portion,
it's
the
downland
town
homes,
general
plan
and
zoning
map
amendments.
This
is
going
to
be
case.
Numbers
plnpcm,
2021-00717,.
M
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
members
of
the
commission,
I'm
happy
to
be
with
you
virtually
this
evening.
These
two
items
have
gone
before
the
planning
commission.
M
Once
already,
this
came
for
a
public
hearing
at
the
november
10th
2021
meeting,
where
it
was
tabled
to
allow
the
applicant
and
his
time
and
his
team
to
kind
of
facilitate
the
discussion
with
staff
and
determine
whether
there
was
a
more
appropriate
zoning
to
request
for
this
area,
so
staff
and
the
applicant
and
his
team
have
met
and
we've
discussed
the
project
and
have
brought
these
items
back
to
the
commission
for
a
recommendation
to
the
city
council.
M
The
applicant
is
requesting
an
amendment
of
the
general
plan
map
from
low
density
residential
to
medium
density,
residential
and
this
general
plan
map
amendment
is
necessary
to
facilitate
the
zoning
mop
amendment
from
r1,
5000,
residential
to
rmf
35
and
just
as
a
reminder
to
the
members
of
the
commission.
The
original
zone
which
was
proposed
was
rmf
45.
M
This
is
the
property
in
question.
It
is
on
the
let's
see,
southwestern
corner
of
westminster,
avenue
and
400
east.
It
is
1902
south
400
east,
and
it
was
the
former
site
of
the
sears
mansion
which
sustained
substantial
damage
in
the
march
2020
earthquake.
M
Since
then,
that
building
was
unfortunately
demolished
and
the
lot
now
sits
vacant.
It
is
about
a
third
of
an
acre
or
a
little
over
14
000
square
feet
in
size,
which
is
a
substantial
amount
of
land,
especially
in
this
area,
where
the
lots
are
a
little
bit
smaller.
M
We
have
a
table
here
of
potential
land
use
changes
which
would
be
newly
permitted
or
nearly
conditional
uses
in
the
zone.
If
the
city
council
does
move
forward
with
approving
these
map
amendments
and
the
land
uses
that
the
applicant
is
currently
looking
at
are
are
the
single-family
attached
dwelling
units
or
potentially
the
multi-family,
depending
on
the
number
of
units
that
they
are
looking
to
obtain
out
of
this
property.
M
Additionally,
we
have
a
table
with
the
potential
lot
and
bulk
changes.
As
you
can
see,
there
are
some
modifications
to
the
setback
and
building
coverage
and
then,
of
course,
the
maximum
building
heights
would
increase
from
28
feet
for
pitched
roofs
and
20
feet
for
flat
roofs
up
to
35
feet
in
the
the
proposed
zone.
M
As
you
can
see
in
your
staff
report,
staff
has
gone
through
the
considerations
that
are
outlined
in
the
ordinance
and
staff
is
making
a
recommendation
that
the
planning
commission
forward
a
positive
recommendation
of
both
the
general
plan
map
amendment
and
the
zoning
map
amendment
for
the
dallin
townhomes
development,
and
that
is
everything
that
I
have
in
my
presentation
for
you.
If
you
have
any
questions
for
me,
I'm
happy
to
take
those.
Otherwise.
I
will
turn
the
time
back
over
to
you,
madam
chair.
A
Thank
you,
katelyn
any
questions
from
commissioners
for
a
staff
at
this
time.
A
Okay,
hearing
none,
let's
see,
we've
got
the
applicant
paul
dowland
tom,
jolly
and
john
davis.
A
C
Yes,
mr
davis
and
mr
jolly
are
not
in
attendance.
A
Presenter,
do
you
need
presenter
rights
to
give
a
presentation,
or
did
you
just
wish
to
speak.
C
F
C
Making
the
appropriate
changes
and
things
that
needed
to
go
forward,
so
I
don't
really
have
a
lot
to
say.
I
know
we've
covered
a
lot
of
this
in
the
last
hearing
and
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
again
for
your
time
and
if
there's
anything
that
I
can
answer
specifically.
A
E
E
If
not,
if
you
could
look
on
your
computer
and
look
down
at
the
panel
where
your
name
shows
up
and
if
you
see
a
little
a
little
telephone
down
there,
if
you
could
maybe
hit
that
and
see,
if
that
would
work.
J
A
C
Perfect
hi,
madam
chair,
thank.
M
You
and
also
wayne
thank
you
for
working
on
this
technology.
C
I
just
have
a
comment.
I
would
like
to
thank
thank
you,
madam
chair,
the
commissioners
and
ms
tubbs,
for
your
time
and
judicious
thought
on
the
original
application
and
the
amendment
which
I
am
in
support
of.
I
attended
the
november
meeting.
I
live
on
ramona,
which
is
just
around
the
corner
from
the
proposed
development.
M
C
The
applicant
for
reducing
the
number
of
town
homes
from
eight
to
four
to
preserve
the
nature
of
our
residential
neighborhood.
So
thank
you
for
that
and
I
look
forward
to
attending
the
next
public
hearing
on
the
building
plan.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Thank
you.
I
did
not
want
to
butcher
your
last
name.
E
Okay,
next
up
is
doyle
buchanan,
go
ahead,
doyle.
E
C
Yes,
I
attended
the
november
meeting
as
well
and
commented,
and
I'm
I'm
in
favor
of
of
this
development.
I
I
think
I
mentioned
that
on
the
last
meeting
that
I
walked
by
or
run
by
it
quite
often,
and
I'm
glad
to
see
that
we're
getting
some
development
over
in
sugar
house,
I've
been
getting
development
for
the
last
five
or
five
or
even
10
years,
and
I'd
like
to
see
liberty
wells
benefit
a
little
bit
from
some
of
the
newer
buildings.
That
kind
of
help
maintain
our
property
values
and.
K
My
name
is
doyle
buchan
and
I
live
on
ramona
avenue,
just
half
a
block
south.
E
Okay,
next
up
vincent
ragroski,
give
me
just
a
minute
here.
We
need
to
see
if
we
can
make
this
work
for
you
too
vincent.
If
you
could
go
on
your
computer
screen
and
open
up
the
particip
hit
the
participant
button.
Can
you
hear.
B
C
All
right,
my
name
is
vincent.
I
live
on
westminster,
avenue
just
within
sight
of
this
property
and
I
hope
they
were
taking
design
cues
from
the
previous
presenter.
The
harvey.
I
really
do
like
that.
Building
the
90,
brick
facade
and
shorter
height,
I
do
think
rmf
35
is
a
bit
too
dense
a
bit
too
tall
for
the
community.
C
F
C
I
would
like
to
see
less
density
on
this
lot.
You
know
four
dwellings
is
is
okay,
but
maybe
three
would
be
better,
after
all,
like
affordability
is
directly
affected
by
increased
density,
so
there's
a
correlation
between
increasing
density
and
making
things
more
unaffordable.
So
I
wouldn't
like
to
see
that
happen
necessarily
in
the
heart
of
liberty,
wells-
and
I
do
have
a
question
wondering
if
these
are
going
to
be
rentals
or
if
they're
going
to
be
for
sale.
A
Okay
and
vincent's-
I
don't
want
to
butcher
your
last
name
either.
Could
you
state
your
full
name
for
the
record.
A
Okay,
thank
you
so
much
for
your
comments
and
I
will
pose
your
question
later.
All
right,
any
other
anybody
else
who
wishes
to
speak.
Please
raise
your
hand,
looks
like
we've
got
another
one.
E
E
No
okay
darlene!
How
about
now.
E
E
And
if
not
darlene
in
the
in
the
chat,
we
have
put
a
call-in
number.
So
if
you
want
to
go
into
the
chat,
then
you
can
call
in
and
then
we
can.
We
can
try
to
try
to
bring
in
from
there.
A
True,
we
can
read
them:
okay,
we'll
stand
down
a
bit
to
see
if
we
can
work
through
that
john
did
you
get
any
emails
to
read
in
at
this
time.
A
E
So
we'll
see
if,
if
darlene
maybe
calls
in
here
in
a
minute
sorry
darlene.
E
A
I'll
leave
the
public
comment
period
open,
but
I'll
bring
it
back
to
the
commission
in
favor
of
time.
Management
give
darlene
a
few
more
minutes
to
try
and
either
call
in
send
emails
to
planning
dot
comments
at
slcgov.com
or
type
something
in
the
chat
which
is
at
the
low
the
bottom
right
of
your
screen
all
right.
Commissioners.
A
Any
questions
well
actually
I'll
pose
the
question
that
vincent
raised
for
the
applicant
first
rentals
or
ownership,
not
that
you
need
to
specify
that
in
our
in
our
decision
making,
but
to
answer
that
question
from
the
public.
A
Okay,
any
thank
you
any
questions
or
discussion
from
commissioners
for
the
applicant
or
staff,
which
would
be
great
since
we're
still
waiting
to
see
if
we
can
work
out.
Darlene's
technicalities.
B
I
I
will
address
vincent's
comment,
the
member
of
the
public
comment.
Thanks
for
that
vincent
I
just
want
to
clarify
that,
in
terms
of
the
correlation
between
density
and
rising
prices,
I'd
be
very
careful
about
inferring
that
as
causality,
because
what
usually
happens
is
you
see
rising
land
values
and
it
then
becomes
worth
developers
while
to
put
in
dense
development
and
what
we've
seen
repeatedly
when
you
don't
allow
for
more
housing
supply.
B
E
Okay,
this
is
from
darlene,
I'm
sorry
darling.
If
I
have
your
cow
foosie
good
evening
planning
committee,
I
strongly
oppose
the
development
of
four
town
homes
at
1902,
south
400
east,
I'm
interested
in
the
height
approval
as
we
live
directly
across
from
the
property
and
also
the
parking
and
activity
it
brings
to
the
neighborhood
neighborhood.
Would
it
be
possible
possible
to
put
speed
humps
on
the
street
to
prevent
speeding
would
like
it
to
be
approved
for
the
lower
height
and
for
it
to
be
three
unit
rather
than
four
units
interested?
E
A
Okay,
thank
you.
I
don't
see
any
other
hands
raised
by
anybody
new
and
darlene.
Thank
you
for
sending
the
email
and
we
apologize
for
the
technical
glitches
that
often
seem
to
be
out
of
all
of
our
control,
but
we
I'm
glad
we
were
able
to
get
your
thoughts
down
so
with
that,
I'm
going
to
close
the
public
comment
period
and
bring
it
back
to
the
commission
and
I'll.
A
Just
again
reiterate
tonight
we
are
making
a
recommendation
to
the
city
council
for
the
zoning
map
amendment
and
the
text
amendment
the
an
actual
whatever
they
actually
do
put
on
the
lot
isn't
before
us.
We
don't
know
what
that
is,
so
we
can't
really
comment
on
the
number
of
town
homes
or
whatnot
there,
and
this
is
not
your
only
opportunity
to
participate.
A
D
Can
I
just
review
when
we
saw
it
before
the
staff
recommended
that
we
forward
a
positive
recommendation
to
change
it
to
rmf
45?
Is
that
right?
Yes,
and
we
were
hesitant
with
that.
So
now
it's
changed
to
rmf
35..
M
So
because
we
got
so
much
feedback
from
the
members
of
the
public,
when
the
original
request
for
rmf
45
came
through,
staff
did
review
the
you
know
existing
master
plan
of
the
neighborhood
and
the
surrounding
area,
and
at
that
point,
staff
forwarded
a
negative
recommendation
of
these
requests,
and
the
planning
commission
tabled
the
request
at
that
time
and
staff
has
worked
with
the
applicant
and
we've
landed
on
rmf
35,
which,
upon
conducting
that
same
review
stuff,
has
found
that
it's
much
more
compatible
with
the
surrounding
neighborhood
and
is
now
making
a
positive
recommendation
for
a
positive
recommendation.
M
C
Please,
based
on
the
information
and
the
staff
report,
the
information
presented
and
the
input
received
during
the
public
hearing.
I
believe
that
the
planning
commission
for
a
positive
recommendation
to
the
city
council
for
the
requested
general
plan,
math
amendment
from
low
density,
residential
1
to
5
dwelling
units
per
acre
to
medium
density,
residential
15
to
30
units
per
acre
or
point
zero
acres
at
approximately
1902
south
400
east,
and
this
is
pln
pcm
2021-00717.
B
A
C
C
C
A
J
C
A
Will
conclude,
I
think.
B
A
C
B
A
Okay,
I
think
you
have
a
motion
from
mike
in
a
second
from
andra
and
thanks
for
catching
that,
let's
take
a
vote
on
this
one
mike.
C
A
C
A
A
A
For
coming
back
tonight,
all
right
that
does
conclude
the
public
hearing
portion
of
our
agenda.
Let
me
we're
now
on
to
the
pub
the
portion
and
we
have
appeals
and
variances
for
planning
commission
training-
I
don't
know
who's,
taking
the
lead
on
this,
though
so.
C
Well,
before
you
start,
can
I
just
mention:
apologies
for
the
technical
issues
tonight
we
are
going
to
meet
tomorrow
morning,
figure
out.
What's
going
on,
it's
been
a
little
bit.
It's
been
happening
too
much
lately
and
you
know
so.
We
appreciate
your
patience
and
with
the
situation,
but
I
think
we
can
find
a
resolution.
D
A
We
are
at
7
30..
What
does
the
commissioners
think
do
you
want
to
plow
through?
How
long
are
you
going
to
be
paul.
I
Well,
that's
that's
kind
of
up
to
you.
We
can
talk
as
long
as
little
as
you
want
to.
There
is
a
statutory
annual
training
requirement
of
four
hours,
so
I
mean
we
can.
I
I
mean
I
don't
want
to
cut
into
your
your
olympic
viewing
hours.
A
A
I
I
don't
know
that
I
spent
a
lot
of
time,
enlightening
anyone,
but
I
will
try
so
nick
nick
recognized
the
need
for
us
to
do
some
training
so
that
everybody's
getting
their
their
time
in
and
he
you
know,
asked
for
some
ideas
on
what
a
good
topic
or
topics
would
be,
and
I
jumped
in
immediately
with
response
and
said
I
want
to
talk
about
appeals
selfishly.
I
This
is
this
is
my
burden
most
of
the
time,
although
hannah
and
I
have
decided
that
if
there's
an
appeal
of
a
decision
that
had
that
was
made
in
a
meeting
that
we're
covering
that
person
is
going
to
handle
the
appeal.
So
if
you're
going
to
make
bad
decisions,
make
sure
you're
making
them
on
the
meetings
that
hannah
covers
and
don't
tell
her.
I
said
that
a
little
outline
here.
So
if
I
sound
like
I'm
reading
from
something
I
am.
I
So
why
did
I
write
up
this
topic
and
I'm
going
to
curse
myself,
but
over
the
last
couple
of
years
we've
seen
a
fairly
significant
number
of
appeals
and.
L
I
Don't
really
know
what
accounts
for
that.
I've
speculated
at
times
that
it's
just
because
everybody's
cranky
we're
all
stuck
in
our
homes
and
we
don't
have
as
many
things
as
we
can
do
right
now,
as
as
we
could,
when
we
didn't
have
to
worry
about
catching
a
virus.
So
we
stay
home,
we're
cranky
and
we
hate
our
neighbors
or
something
a
significant
number
of
the
appeals
that
we've
been
dealing
with
have
been
the
the
neighbor
appeals.
I
A
few
have
been
applicant
appeals,
but
it
seems,
like
we've,
had
a
significant
number
of
those
third
party
neighbor
appeals
lately.
Currently
in
case
you're
wondering
I
have
four
four
items
that
have
gone
through.
The
planning
commission
that
have
technically
been
appealed.
I
Three
of
those
are
currently
in
district
court,
one
of
those
we
had
a
appeal
hearing
on
it,
but
another
webex
glitch.
We
weren't
able
to
get
the
meeting
recorded
so
we're
doing
the
do-over,
and
just
maybe
it's
a
I
I
I
know
that
you
all
have
busy
lives
and
you
may
not
find
this
stuff
as
interesting
as
I
do.
I
But
if,
if
you're
interested
in
how
the
appeals
work,
what
the
arguments
look
like,
what
the
subject
matter
usually
is
the
city
has
a
youtube
channel
where
these
meetings
and
most
of
our
appeal
hearings
are
posted.
So
you
can
go
back
and
watch
it
after
the
fact,
and
I
say
that
because
after
the
fact,
if
you
were
to
hop
in
on
a
an
appeal
hearing,
while
it's
happening
through
webex,
there
may
be
some-
I
don't
know
a
temptation
for
somebody
to
say.
I
Well,
commissioner,
barry
is
here,
so
why
don't
we
ask
her
why
they
made
this
decision,
so
I
I
would
encourage
you
to
if
you're
interested,
to
watch
the
appeals,
but
usually
I
think
the
best
form
for
that
right
now
is
is
youtube.
You
could
hop
in
to
webex
if
you
want,
and
I'm
not
gonna
tell
you
not
to
do
that.
I
just
think
it
would
be
better
to
watch
something
after
the
fact.
A
I
just
was
wondering
if
you
would
go
over
like
who's
the
who
decides
who
hears
the
appeal
and,
what's
the
time
frame
that
you
know,
people
have
to
make
an
appeal
and,
and
what's
been
the
outcome
of
the
appeals.
Have
our
decisions
been
overturned
upheld
or
what?
Because
we
don't,
we
don't
get
to
hear
any
of
that.
I
I
I
think
we
probably
need
to
do
a
better
job
of
letting
you
know
when
there
is
an
appeal
simply
because
one
of
the
things
that
we
ask
you
to
do
is
to
not
have
conversations
about
the
matters
that
you
make.
Decisions
on
that
are
under
appeal,
just
because
it's
another
opportunity
for
somebody
to
say.
Aha,
you
know,
commissioner
lee
said
this,
so
let
me
tell
you
the
appeals
that
we
have
right
now.
Tomahawk
drive,
that's
the
one
that
we're
doing
the
do-over
on.
I
I
We
have
the
heinz
design
review,
the
one
that
was
appealed
by
the
state
of
the
utah
pantages
theater
group.
That's
in
district
court.
I
I
Property
owner's
name
was
harvest,
it
was
a
planned
development
and
I
forget
it
was.
It
was
on
27th
south
that
one's
in
district
court
that's
been
appealed
by
a
neighbor,
and
then
this
is
the
strange
one
that
is
in
district
court
that
you
saw,
which
was
a
legislative
matter.
I
That's
a
great
question
and
I'm
gonna
probably
jump
around
here
a
little
bit,
and
I
encourage
you
to
ask
questions
along
the
way
and
that's
okay,
so
1945
south
1300
east
was
the
one
that
was
a
re-zone
legislative
matters,
the
items
that
you
make
a
text
amendment
or
a
re-zone
amendment
recommendation
to
the
council
on
those
do
not
get
appealed
to
our
appeals.
Hearing
officer
after
the
city
council
makes
a
decision
on
those.
I
An
appeal
goes
directly
to
district
court
on
those
and
the
reason
is
basically
it's
a
policy
decision
and
it's
a
completely
different
standard.
It's
it's
it's
about
the
lowest
threshold
I
can
think
of
the
standard
for
upholding
a
legislative
land
use
decision
is
whether
the
decision
is
reasonably
debatable,
as
opposed
to
a
decision
that
the
commission
makes
as
an
administrative
type
decision.
I
That's
that's!
That's
slightly
tougher
to
defend
it's.
It's
generally,
not
difficult.
So
very
you
asked
me
like
four
or
five
questions.
Gonna
try
to
cover
all
these
things,
and
I
want
to
start
with
maybe
the
the
foundation.
I
So
when,
when
I
responded
to
nick
and
said,
I
want
to
talk
about
appeals
and
how
we
can
avoid
them
and
how
we
can
avoid
the
trouble
that
we
sometimes
have
to
address
in
those
appeals,
anna
vickery,
who
you
all
have
met,
at
least
through
your
computers,
jumped
in
and
said,
I
want
to
talk
about
administrative
resources,
legislative
decision
making
and
the
two
of
these
mesh
really
well.
I
As
far
as
this
discussion
goes,
so
there
really
are
two
types
of
things
that
the
planning
commission
does
you
get
involved
in
administrative
decision
making
and
legislative
recommendations,
and
this
this
should
be
obvious
and
seared
in
all
of
your
brains.
I
I'm
confident
that
you're
all
aware
of
this,
but
why
why
I
want
to
talk
about
this
is
because
it
dovetails
nicely
into
the
conversation
about
appeals,
so
the
legislative
decision
or
the
legislative
matters
that
you
review.
I
You
are
not
the
final
decision
maker.
They
are
not
appealable,
there
are
there's
a
consideration
of
factors,
but
there's
not
a
strict
compliance
with
those
factors.
There
are
generally
things
to
to
consider,
and
that's
simply
because,
when
it
gets
to
the
city
council,
they
have
a
tremendous
amount
of
discretion.
So
there's
really
no
need
for
the
recommending
body
to
have
rigid
standards
to
to
apply,
and
this
is
where
it
doesn't
bother
me.
I
If
you
say
I
think
this
is
terrible,
or
this
is
great,
not
really
standards,
but
you
know
the
kinds
of
things
that
that
you,
as
citizen
planners,
can
be
a
little
more
vocal
about
your
personal
perspectives
on
these
things,
as
opposed
to
administrative
decision
making,
where
you
are
the
decision
maker,
your
decisions
are
appealable,
and
this
is
all
based
on
standards
and
standards
that
are
in
the
code.
I
Any
any
decision
that
you
make
we
we
need
to
basically
point
to
does
this
meet
what
is
prescribed
in
the
code.
Sometimes
we
don't
like
what's
in
the
code
and
that's
okay,
but
you
are
still
bound
to
make
a
decision
based
on
what
those
standards
are.
I
Okay,
so
oftentimes
in
planning
commission
meetings,
we
hear
commissioners
express
their
opinions.
I
We
hear
a
lot
of
comments
from
the
public
and
I
don't
mean
to
you
know
to
do
anything
to
to
marginalize
comments
made
by
the
public,
but
the
reality
is-
and
this
is
something
that
should
be
apparent
to
you,
and
that
is
that
the
vast
majority
of
comments
made
by
the
public
on
administrative
matters
do
not
make
any
mention
of,
or
include
any
substance
that
relates
to
standards.
It's
generally,
we
don't
like
this.
This
is
going
to
ruin
our
neighborhood
there's
going
to
be
a
safety
concern
here
and
basically
this
is.
I
This
is
not
a
time
for
a
decision
to
be
made
based
on
popularity
based
on
emotion,
based
on
whether
we
are
concerned
about
somebody
being
disappointed.
I'm
the
fact
is
that
the
law
is
what
protects
you
and,
commissioner
barry.
You
asked
the
question
about.
How
often
are
these
things
appealed
and
and
how
successful
are
we
on
these
appeals?
I
Well,
the
good
thing
is
is
that
you
are
all
very
good
at
making
decisions
and
I'm
very
good
at
defending
them
not
to
be
that
way.
But
fact
of
the
matter
is
we
don't
lose
appeals
and
as
much
as
I
really
want
to
take
a
lot
of
credit
for
being
this
brilliant
attorney.
I
The
law
is
written
in
a
way
that
favors
municipal
land
use
decisions.
There
is
a
presumption
in
the
law
that
the
decision
that
you
make
is
valid
and
that
presumption
can
only
be
overcome
by
an
appellate
showing
that
the
decision
was
arbitrary.
Capricious
are
illegal
so
from
from
the
starting
point,
the
appeal
hearing
officer
and
if
it
goes
to
court,
the
judge
starts
from
from
the
assumption
that
you
have
made
a
correct
decision
that
benefits
me.
It
makes
me
look
smarter.
B
Fair
enough,
this
is
super
interesting
paul.
I
really
appreciate
you
taking
the
time
to
share
this
with
us.
I
think
in
a
previous
meeting
we
had
with
you.
You
suggested
that
the
cost
to
the
appellant
of
appealing
was
quite
low.
Is
there,
and
that
was
part
of
the
problem?
I
guess
I'm
wondering,
given
that
you
win
all
of
them.
I
mean
it
still
takes
up
taxpayer
money
to
pay
staff.
B
I
An
awesome
question:
michaela,
our
assistant
planning
director,
has
been
working
on
an
effort
to
get
the
city
council
to
raise
those
that
that
appeal
fee.
So
it
costs
256
dollars
to
appeal
that
comes
nowhere
close
to
covering
what
the
city
allocates
for
my
time
for
the
planner's
time,
but
it
it
clearly
doesn't
cover
the
cost
of
the
appeal
hearing
officer
who
would
have
to
pay
a
hundred
and
something
dollars
an
hour
to
hear
these
things
so
yeah?
I
It's
it's
certainly
not
a
disincentive
and
people
often
just
want
to
be
heard.
Yeah
yeah
156
isn't
a
lot
for
somebody
to
to
make
some
noise.
B
Yeah,
so
that's
the
other
question.
That's
a
really
good
thing
about
the
the
wanting
to
be
heard.
I
think
part
of
the
part
of
the
public
hearing
process
may
serve
that
function,
and
I
never
really
thought
about
that.
Somebody
who
runs
a
company
was
telling
me
that
part
of
her
job
when
she
has
an
employee
conflict
is
just
to
make
sure
that
somebody
feels
heard,
and
they
don't
take
it
to
the
next.
B
I
never
I
never
thought
about
it,
but
that
that
is
good
to
hear
that
that
is
some
of
what
they
need
to
feel,
and
certainly
we
can
try
to
that's
what
they're
trying
to
address,
and
the
other
question
I
was
wondering
about,
though,
is
when
we
make
unanimous
decisions.
Does
this
change
the
probability
that
it
appeals
or
is
it
they
don't
seem
to
think
any
differently
if
it's
unanimous
versus
a
4-2
or
something.
I
I
don't
know
how
quantifiable
that
is,
but
it's
certainly
an
issue
that
appellants
raise.
They
will
say.
Well,
you
know,
commissioner
burrows
disagreed,
and
she
said
I
know
it's
all
amy's
fault,
commissioner
burroughs
disagreed
and
she
said
that
she
didn't
think
the
building
was
too
high.
Those
are
the
things
that
balance
will
point
out.
I'm
not
telling
you
that
you
need
to
make
unanimous
decisions,
because
I
think
that
that
would
be
problematic.
I
think
we
need
a
diversity
of
perspectives
and
opinions
here
and
it's
okay
to
disagree.
I
I
I'm
glad
you
asked
the
question,
I'm
I'm
trying
to
avoid
telling
you
that
unanimous
decisions
are
awesome,
but
you
know
it's
just.
It
makes
my
job
a
little
bit
easier.
If,
if
we
have
a
clean
discussion,
the
comments
that
are
made
are
relevant
and
you
know
the
appeal
hearing
officer
is
not
gonna.
Look
at
something
and
say:
well,
it
was
a
four
or
three
decision
so
gosh.
I
don't
know
how
this
should
go.
I
Yes,
the
record
is
the
most
important
thing.
So
let
me
just
hop
to
to
some
of
those
notes
here,
so
we're
what
we're
building
to
is,
how
you
make
your
decision,
what
it's
based
on.
Obviously,
I'm
going
to
keep
saying
standards
because
you
know
if
you
make
a
decision,
that's
not
based
on
standards
and
I've
got
a
little
more
work
to
do
and
it
can
be
uncomfortable
and,
let
me
say,
just
out
of
fairness.
Yes,
the
planning
commission
has
had
quite
a
few
decisions
appealed
lately,
but.
I
I
would
say
what
I've
been
battling.
The
most
lately
is
not
decisions
that
are
hard
to
justify
it's
decisions
that
are
based
on
bad
code.
We
have
some
bad
code
going
to
acknowledge
that
right
now
there
are
things
again,
because
I've
got
a
current
appeal
that
I
don't
really
want
to
get
into
the
details
on.
We
have
some
code
provisions.
I
The
last
two
appeals
I've
handled
where
there
are
remnants
of
former
regulatory
schemes
that
were
inadvertently
left
in
the
code
that
are
not
helpful.
I
We're
obviously
well
aware
of
them
now,
but
just
so
you
know
it's
not
because
you
know
one
commission
or
another
is
is
making
a
bad
decision
with
the
commission
as
a
whole.
I
I
They
don't
they
don't
understand
standards
they
you
know,
I
again,
I
I'm
not
going
to
be
anybody's
favorite
person
or
not
for
saying
this,
but
in
all
of
the
appeals
I've
dealt
with
lately
that
do
not
involve
an
attorney
representing
one
of
the
sides.
I'm
dealing
with
google
lawyers,
people
who
think
that
they
understand
standards
based
on
the
fact
that
they
read
something
in
in
a
chat
or
you
know
they.
I
They
read
the
code
and
they
think
they
understand
it,
but
they
don't
understand
the
entirety
of
the
code
where
there
are
presumptions
that,
if
there's
an
ambiguity
in
the
code,
we
have
to
interpret
that
in
favor
of
a
land
use
applicant.
This
is
something
that
the
state
legislature
added
to
the
code,
I
think
about
five
years
ago,
not
really
helpful,
but
it's
what
we're
stuck
with
and
when
we
have
an
ambiguity,
and
these
these
are
generally
appeals
that
you
don't
see
in
front
of
you.
It's
an
administrative
level,
a
staff
level
decision.
I
We
interpret
the
code
one
way,
but
one
of
the
appeals
that
I'm
dealing
with
now
does
have
that
element
to
it.
And
so
we,
you
know
it's
it's
a
frustration
of
mine
that
we
have
bad
code,
but
there's
no
way
to
write
a
perfect
code.
We
can
just
take
the
things
that
we
learn
from
these
experiences
and
improve
on
them.
I
So
one
of
the
things
that
that
I
want
to
avoid
when
we're
making
decisions,
we're
doing
the
fact
finding
when
we're
asking
questions,
the
questions
that
we
ask,
the
staff
are
important.
They
need
to
be
relevant.
They
need
to
be
based
on
the
standards
again,
one
of
the
things
that
I've
heard
a
lot,
a
question
that
comes
up
frequently.
I
I
think
it's
a
reasonable
question
to
ask,
but
it's
not
relevant,
and
that
is
will
these
units
be
affordable,
there's
not
a
standard
for
affordability
and
as
much
as
salt
lake
city
is
really
struggling
to
tackle
a
housing,
affordability
problem
right
now:
it's
not
something
that
that
you
can
make
a
decision
on,
and
so
it's
really
something
that
we
ought
to
avoid
asking,
because
it
appears
like
we're
making
a
decision
based
on
whether
it's
affordable,
whether
you
know
something
outside
of
the
standards
and
there
have
been
other
ques
questions
asked
and
discussions
had,
and
I
can't
really
think
of
those
off
the
top
of
my
head.
I
The
affordability.
One
is
just
one
that
I
know
comes
up
a
lot
and
you
know
I
roll
my
eyes,
but
I
don't
really
get
that
concerned
about
that
specific
question.
There
are
conversations
that
we
get
deep
into
where
the
issue
is
is
not
relevant
to
the
standard.
Sometimes
we
talk
about
parking
on
issues
where
you
know,
they're
asking
for
additional
hike
and
parking
is
not
part
of
that
petition,
and
I'm
not
saying
that
that
commission
members
are
bad
decision
makers
because,
like
I
said,
we
have
a
very
good
success
rate.
I
C
B
I
100
100-
and
I
I
don't
recall,
having
had
having
had
to
do
this
lately,
it
seems
like
years
ago
when
we
were
having
a
lot
of
alcohol
related
uses
and
neighborhoods
were
up
in
arms
about
you
know
a
potential
neighborhood
bar.
I
Being
built
near
them,
we
would
hear
a
lot
of.
We
would
have
an
idea
in
advance
on
the
conditional
use
that
there
were
going
to
be
a
lot
of
concerns
raised
and
staff,
and
the
commission
chair
have
been
very
good
on
those
kinds
of
things
where
we
have
an
idea
on
a
conditional
use
to
remind
the
public
that
hey
the
state
legislature
has
tied
our
hands
on
conditional
uses.
I
If,
if
the
reasonably
anticipated
detrimental
effects
of
this
use
can
be
mitigated
with
reasonable
conditions,
we
cannot
deny
it
and
giving
that
speech
at
the
beginning
of
the
public
comment
and
at
the
end
of
it,
I
think,
has
been
helpful
to
educate
the
public
on
those
kinds
of
things.
And
yes,
if
we
do
have
50
public
comments
on
affordability
and
the
commission,
chair
closes
the
public
hearing
and
says:
we've
heard
you,
we
recognize
that
affordability
is
a
really
important
thing
for
the
community.
I
However,
that's
not
a
standard
and
we're
not
allowed
to
make
decisions
on
issues
that
are
not
part
of
the
standards
it
it.
If
nothing
else.
It
goes
to
show
that
the
decision
was
made
based
on
the
standards,
and
I
hope
that
when
we
make
those
comments,
the
public
hears
us
now.
I
know
that
land
use
decisions
are
emotional
and
people
don't
want
to.
I
They
just
don't
want
that
house
across
the
street,
or
you
know
that
that
accessory
dwell
like
unit
that
they
they
don't
like
the
neighbor
and
they
suspect
the
neighbors
gonna
use
it
as
a
short-term
rental.
One
of
the
comments
we
hear
from
time
to
time
is
that
that
neighbor
is
a
bad
person.
We
don't
like
that
person.
Obviously,
the
character
of
an
applicant
or
whatever,
that
is
the
character
of
a
person,
is
not
a
standard
and
it
shouldn't
be
considered.
B
Helpful
paul
in
terms
of
how
we
address
public
companies,
because
I
I
think
there's
a
bit
of
a
tension
between
making
sure
the
public
feels
heard
and
maybe
educating
them
a
little
bit
about
what
the
role
of
the
planning
commission
actually
is
that
we're
not
you
know
the
only
way
they
can
get
result
resolution
of
the
things
they
don't
like
about
their
neighborhood
and
the
fact
that
there's
you
know
micro
units
going
in
and
whatnot
and
just
I
think
that
that's
sort
of
a
an
education
standpoint
as
well.
B
As
you
know,
I
think
that
happened
a
little
bit
tonight
with
the
parking
where
most
of
the
public
comments
seem
to
be
complaining
about
parking
which
didn't
seem
to
be
at
all
part
of
what
we
were
at
being
asked
to
approve.
And
yet
that
seemed
to
be
an
issue.
So
this
is
really
helpful
in
terms
of
how
we
kind
of
navigate
that.
I
Yeah-
and
you
know
I'm
I
have
to
say,
I'm
I'm
grateful.
This
makes
my
job
easier,
that
we
have
commissioner
chair
person,
barry
as
our
commission,
chair
and
and
brenda
before,
her
and
and
adrian
before
her
we
having
having
good,
I
guess,
explanation
to
the
public,
makes
things
so
much
easier
for
us.
They
don't
they're,
not
gonna,
hear
you
all
the
time
promise
you
that
you
know
they.
They
don't
want
it.
They
don't
want
this
in
the
neighborhood,
but
saying
it
out
loud
will
reach
some
people.
I
They'll
they'll
get
it
and
you
know
like,
like
I
keep
saying
standard
standard
standards.
My
heart
skips
a
beat
when
there's
a
public
comment
where
somebody
actually
mentions
standards.
I
When
was
the
last
time
you
heard
public
comment
mention
the
standards,
it's
infrequent,
it
really
is
so,
and
that
was
that's.
That's
one
of
the
things
and
I
am
again
skipping
around
and
wayne
will
tell
you
from
a
conversation.
We
had
an
hour
before
planning
commission
meeting
tonight.
I
really
do
have
a
hard
time.
Staying
on
track,
sometimes
get
into
tangents,
but
that's
just.
I
The
motives
that
we
make
something
I've
mentioned
to
planning
management
recently,
and
it
was
again
something
that
popped
in
my
head
as
a
result
of
an
appeal
is
the
promotional
language
we
use
is
based
on
the
staff
report.
Public
comment
materials
presented
in
discussion
whatever
based
on
public
comment,
isn't
always
an
accurate
reflection
when
making
the
motion
right
because
oftentimes
the
public
comment
is
not
standard
spaced
or
it's
in
opposition
to
the
motion
that
you're
making.
I
I
So
sorry
that
you're,
just
having
a
look
at
my
face.
While
having
this
conversation.
I
I
C
I
C
A
I
A
Pop
in
and
say
that
for
some
commissioners
it
can
be
intimidating
to
have
to
come
up
with
yes,
an
alternative
parts
to
emotions
when
we're
trying
to
modify
some
of
it
and
that
can
be
intimidating
for
some.
So
you
know
any
help
on
that
to
kind
of
make
it
more
universal
so
that
we
we
all
feel
comfortable
to
do.
That
would
be
helpful
and.
C
And
it
is,
I
think,
we're
debating
it.
You
know
in
discussion.
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
to
make
sure
to
get
your
input
that
we're
actually
formulating
emotion
when
we
have
to
on
the
fly
that
would
pass
muster
or
if
you
have
some
suggestions,
if
there's
a
way
to
enlighten
us
mid
motion,
mid
discussion
of
motion
that
I
think
that
would
be
helpful
to
the
extent.
A
Totally
agree
with
adrian-
and
I
don't
think
any
commissioner
I'll
just
speak
for
myself,
but
I'll
blanket
statement.
I
don't
think
any
of
us
would
take
umbrage
if
you
pipe
in
and
say
like.
Oh,
oh,
wait.
You
need
to
kind
of
think
about
doing
it
this
way
because
we're
you
know
we
want
to
make
it
sure
that
it's
correct
and
legal
and
all
that
so.
I
I
The
difficult
motions
are
the
ones
where
you
are
going
against
the
staff
recommendation
to
deny
an
application,
so
the
the
staff
reports
we
the
motions
that
that
staff
gives
you
they're
really
good
about
saying
because
it
meets
all
the
stuff
and
basically,
you
are
adopting
the
findings
of
the
staff
report.
Staff
has
laid
out
why
all
of
these
standards
have
been
met
and
we're
good.
I
When
you
disagree
with
a
staff
report
and
the
findings
in
there,
it
does
become
a
little
more
challenging
because
you
then
need
to
step
back
look
at
what
the
standards
are
and
identify
the
specific
standard
or
standards
that
you
think
that
the
application
fails
to
meet
and
that's
where
we
can
help
you
with
those
motions
and
don't
hesitate
to
ask
we're
more
than
happy
to
to
guide
you
through.
I
If
you
disagree
with
staff's
finding
that
this
proposed
development
activity
is
compatible
with
the
adjacent
neighborhood,
we'll
we'll
help
you
walk
through
that,
and
please
don't,
like
I
said,
don't
hesitate
to
ask
those-
are
the
tricky
ones
and
and
just
to
go
on
another
tangent
here.
For
a
moment,
I'm
gonna
use
landmark
commissions
is
a
good
bad
example.
You
can
pick
on
them
because
they're
not
here
they
they
in
the
past
have
had
struggled
with
motions
to
deny
things
and
I'm
not
kidding
you.
I
Denials
are
hard
because
you
then
have
to
formulate
your
own
ideas.
Sorry
about
that.
Sorry
to
pick
down
the
landmark
commission
emotions.
D
I
I
So
I
yeah
I
generally,
I
generally
represent
the
defend
landmark
commission
and
planning
commission
and
right
now,
if
we're
being
honest
planning,
commission
has
more
things
that
I'm
dealing
with
that
are
appealed.
None
of
those
have
merit.
I
But
it
landmark,
commission
stuff
is
just
different,
I'm
just
getting
into
there
so
hurt
everybody's
feelings
or
get
myself
in
trouble.
I
Okay,
so
our
typical
motion,
we
mentioned
the
file
number
and
then
based
on
staff,
support
materials
present
all
that
findings
yeah.
Okay.
So
sorry,
I'm
just
going
through
my
outline
here
hold
off
on
making
on
discussion
until
on
a
motion
until
after
there's
a
second.
These
are
just
process
things,
and
I
would
encourage
you
to.
I
Regularly
review
the
policies
and
procedures
for
the
commission,
just
it's
good
to
stay
fresh
on
something,
and
there
was
there
was
an
issue
and
maybe
I'll
pick
on
brenda
because
she's
not
here.
There
was
an
issue
in
a
planning
commission.
Last
year,
where
I
jumped
in-
and
I
said.
I
Chairperson,
under
your
policies
and
procedures,
the
applicant
has
an
opera
should
have
an
opportunity
to
respond
to
the
public
comments
and
she
said
well:
no,
they
no,
they
don't
they
don't
get
to
do
that,
it's
in
the
policies
and
procedures.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
following
those
and
a
footnote
to
that
policies
and
procedures
themselves
are
imperfect
and
need
a
little
cleanup.
We've
discovered
some
things
in
the
last
year
and
we've
had
you
adopt
some
changes,
just
a
recommendation
to
to
stay
fresh
on
that
stuff.
A
I
It's
not
fun
reading,
but
if
nothing
else,
motion
processes,
you
know
it's.
It's
helpful
to
stay
sharp
on
that
stuff
and
no
little
things
like
the
applicant
does
actually
have
a
policy
based
opportunity
to
respond
to
public
comment
and
there's
stuff
in
there
about
not
not
engaging
in
a
debate
with
the
public
and
whatnot.
Okay.
So
sorry
for
for
all
of
this,
so
you
we,
we
know
we
make
decisions
based
on
standards.
If
anything,
if
you
take
anything
away
from
tonight,
you
know
that
I'm
I'm
a
broken
record
on
this.
I
So,
chairperson
barry.
You
asked
me
to
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
our
hearing
officers
and
I
think
I
think
maureen
may
be
the
only
commissioner
who
served
with
two
of
our
former
planning
commissioners
who
are
now
appeals,
hearing
officers
and
that's
matt,
worthlin
and
mary
woodhead
and
they're
fantastic,
and
it's
really
helpful
for
them
to
have
that.
I
That
planning,
commission
experience
behind
them
now,
they're
also
both
attorneys
and
that's
something
that
I
think
we
would
never
consider
somebody
for
an
appeals,
hearing
officer
who
isn't
an
attorney
and
it's
just
because
it
is
the
land
use
law
and
the
standards
are
so
nuanced
and
so
technical
that
it's
not
that
we
don't
trust
non-attorneys,
insist
that
we.
I
We're
we're
going
to
have
a
a
better
time,
defending
decisions
when
they're
made
by
attorneys,
and
then
we
have
a
third
hearing
officer
who's
craig
call.
He
was
utah's
first
property
rights,
ombudsman,
and
he
has
a
wealth
of
knowledge
as
well,
and
sometimes
I
serve
as
an
appeal
hearing
officer
for
other
cities,
which
is
kind
of
fun.
I
It
is,
it
is
a
term
that
they
serve
and
I
don't
remember
if
it's
two
four-year
terms
like
commissioner
planning
commissioners,
I
think
it's
two
five-year
terms
craig
call
is
our
oldest
serving
hearing
officer.
I
He
was
the
first
one
appointed
when
we
dismantled
the
board
of
adjustment
and
I
would
have
to
say
I
have
a
high
degree
of
confidence
and
each
of
those
hearing
officers
don't
always
agree
with
them
and
sometimes
they've
made
decisions
that
I
I
think
could
be
challenged,
but
but
they're
they're
all
very
good
at
what
they
do
and
I
trust
their
expertise.
I
That's
that's
the
shortest
period
of
time
that
the
law
allows
us
to
prescribe,
and
I'm
glad
that
we
do
because
yeah
when
you
have
a
land
use
approval,
and
you
want
to
move
forward
with
construction,
the
more
time
that
one
of
these
appeals
can
linger
the
more
costly
it
can
be
for
the
developer.
The
more
uncertainty
and
to
be
honest
with
you,
oftentimes
appeals,
are
brought
by
neighbors
third
parties
or
whomever
simply
to
cause
delay
to
legitimate
development
projects.
I
So
by
shortening
that
to
ten
days
is,
is
what
I
think
is
in
everybody's
best
interest,
except
for
the
person
bringing
the
miracles
appeal.
A
quick
resolution
is
death.
I
So
we
generally
will
hear
those
within
two
months.
Sometimes
it's
a
little
bit
longer
based
on
the
availability
of
the
parties.
Sometimes
it's
within
a
month
oftentimes,
it
just
kind
of
depends
on
who
can
be
available.
If
my
workload
allows
me
to
start
writing
a
brief
right
away.
There
is
a
code
provision
that
says
that
we're
supposed
to
hear
those
within
180
days
or
they're
dismissed.
But
you
know
that's
there's
some
question
as
to
whether
we
could
enforce
that.
I
If,
if
the
delay
is
the
city's
fault
or
or
something
out
of
the
control
of
the
appellant
and
then
once
the
appeal
hearing
officer
makes
their
decision
the.
If
any
party
wants
to
challenge
that
decision
and
appeal
that
to
district
court,
they
have
30
days
from
the
date
that
that
written
decision
is
issued.
B
I
So
if,
if
the,
if
the
land
use
application
was
approved-
and
it's
it's
a
third-party
appeal-
a
neighbor
appealing
this-
the
developer
can
proceed,
they
do
so
at
their
own
risk
and
there
is
a
possibility
that
an
appealing
party
may
ask
the
appeals,
hearing
officer
or
the
court
to
stay
the
matter.
While
the
appeal
is
pending
and
they
can
do
that.
I
It
doesn't
happen.
Often
I
haven't
seen
it
yet.
I
know
it.
It
has
happened
in
other
cities,
but
generally
we
have
a
strong
belief
in
the
the
validity
and
legitimacy
of
your
decision
and
the
landmark
commission
decision
and
the
decisions
made
at
the
staff
level
and
our
hearing
officers
respect
that,
and
if
there's
I
mean
there
may
be
a
public
interest
reason
why
we
wouldn't
want
to
allow
construction
to
move
forward.
I
I
They
generally
look
at
arbitrary
capricious
and
illegal,
and
their
decision
is
based
exclusively
on
what's
in
the
administrative
record,
so
that
means
that
everything
that
was
presented
to
the
planning
commission,
all
of
the
emails
all
of
the
testimony,
the
drawings
all
of
that
stuff,
that
the
conversation
that
was
had.
I
I
I
jump
in.
I
say
you
know
mr
workland,
ms
woodhead.
Mr
call,
this
is
not
in
the
record.
You
can't.
You
cannot
consider
this,
and
you
know
this.
This
part
of
the
conversation
needs
to
stop
right
now,
and
I
tried
to
do
it
polite
way,
which
is
wonderful
because
it
means
there's
there's
no.
If
any
of
you
have
ever
been
part
of
litigation,
there's
never
any
interrogators.
I
There's
no
depositions,
no
subpoenas,
it's
just
what's
already
been
presented
to
you
and
that's
that's
locked
can't
hear
anything
else
makes
things
easier
for
me
and
the
litigators
in
my
office
have
to
deal
with
these
matters
in
court.
I
So
when
the
hearing
officer
does
make
a
decision-
and
I
don't
think
anybody-
I
don't
even
actually-
I
think
andres
may
be
one
of
the
more
senior
members
of
the
commission.
I
don't
think
anybody
on
the
commission
has
been
here
when
this
has
happened.
So
the
the
hearing
officer
has
options
here
and
what
they
do
with
the
decision.
I
They
can
deny
the
appeal
and
they
can
grant
the
appeal
and
if
they
grant
the
appeal
in
nearly
every
every
circumstance,.
I
I
There
was
an
appeal
brought
by
the
then
owner
of
the
rio
grande
cafe
and
for
us
it
was
a
learning
opportunity.
We
didn't
list
all
of
the
elements
of
a
conditional
use
in
the
staff
report
and
thus
the
commission
didn't
consider
all
of
those-
and
basically
I
got
kicked
back
to
the
commission
to
make
a
correct
decision,
a
complete
standard
space,
con
decision.
I
None
of
you
have
seen
that
unless
I'm
wrong,
I
don't
think
andres
or
maureen
were
on
the
commission
at
the
time
we
had
that
one
come
back.
I
could
be
again
wrong,
but
it's
been
a
really
long
time
again,
that's
due
in
large
part
to
the
good
decisions
that
you
make
and
the
fact
that
the
law
presumes
that
you
made
a
good
decision
I'll
try
to
wrap
this
up
real,
quick.
I
I
They
need
to
be
something
that
you
can
tie
a
standard
to
a
standard
if
you're
making,
if
you're
approving,
with
the
condition
same
as
denials
I'll
need
to
be
based
on
relevant
elements,
I
I
beat
that
dead
horse.
Are
there
any
questions?
I
Specific
types
of
things
that
get
approved
or
get
appealed
conditional
uses?
Don't
get
appealed
all
that
much
simply
because
I
I
think
that
people
who
would
appeal
those
recognize
the
fact
that
it
is
extremely
difficult
to
deny
a
conditional
use.
The
planning
commission
has
done
it
in
the
past
and
on
one
of
those,
the
hearing
officer
actually
upheld
the
decision.
I
And
we
could,
I
mean
we
can
do
this
another
day
and
talk
about
those
conditional
use
standards,
but
essentially
it
was
that
the
in
that
case
the
reasonably
anticipated
detrimental
impacts
of
this
use,
as
it
pertains
to
this
location
and
that's
critical
in
a
conditionally
used,
particularly
if
you're
going
to
deny
one
it.
It
has
to
be
something
about
that
condition.
Used
specific
to
this
location
is
going
to
create
these
detrimental
impacts.
That
cannot
reasonably
be
mitigated
happened
once
and
it
was
upheld.
C
Oh,
was
that
a
that
was.
I
I
Alcohol
related
use
just
west
of
foothill.
I
That
was
a
while
ago,
yeah
we've
gotten
pretty
good
at
this,
and
I
think
that
you
know
over
the
years
like
I
said,
we've
learned
from
mistakes
and
refined
things
to
the
point
where
your
your
decisions
are
usually
very,
very
easy
to
defend.
Occasionally,
like
I
said,
if
you're
curious,
and
you
want
to
watch
one
of
these
or
we
we
do
have
on
the
website
a
link
to
all
the
materials
when
we
have
appeals.
I
Sometimes
I
will
have
to
cite
to
the
the
actual
commission
discussion
and
say,
commissioner,
bell
made
this
comment.
Commissioner,
made
this
comment.
It
was
relevant
to
the
standards.
So,
if,
if
you
want
to
hear
us,
say
good
things
about
how
smart
you
are
and
all
that
it's
it's
interesting
from
now.
A
On
then,
I
don't
want
to
watch
that
hey,
not
not
to
know.
D
I
Full
circle
there
was
one
thing
yeah
one
thing:
one
thing
I
wanted
to
mention:
I
I
did
sort
of
hit
on
something,
but
not
as
completely
as
I
wanted
to
it's
really
important
that
you
don't
express
how
you
feel
about
a
project,
how
you
think
you
will
vote
in
advance
of
that
vote.
We've
had
to
disqualify
some
commissioners
in
the
past.
For
those
statements
and,
like
I
said
earlier,
that
also
holds
true
until
the
appeal
period
has
expired.
B
Noticing
this
is
a
complete
aside,
but
I'm
just
looking
through
our
folder
for
tonight,
and
I
am
noticing
that
the
meeting
minutes
for
january
26th
that
we
approved
tonight-
I
can't
find
them.
I
can
see
the
meeting
minutes
for
january
12th.
I
can't
find
the
meeting
minutes
for
january
26th.
You
know.
A
They
are
in
my
dropbox.
I've
noticed
sometimes
like
I'll
say
to
staff
like
it's
not
here
and
they
can
see
it.
So
I
it
is
in
my
topics,
but
sometimes
I
think
dropbox
glitches
and
I've
noticed
that
other
people
won't
have
access
to
it,
but
I
can
get
it
or
I
don't,
but
staff
does
see.
B
D
B
D
Make
a
note
that
was
not
a
capricious
or
a
legal
or
fraudulent
vote,
there's
nothing
wrong
with
that
vote.
All
right.
Okay,.
E
A
A
We've
had
an
hour
off
of
our
of
our
required
education.
I
Round
up
to
an
hour,
if
anybody
has
any
questions
about
appeals,
if
you
want
to
sit
down
on
one
we'll
log
in
and
webex,
under
a
fake
name,
so
don't
be
tempted
to
ask
commissioner
barry
to
explain
why
the
conditions
are
this
way.
I
One
thing
I
do
want
to
say
just
rather,
when
you
make
a
decision
as
a
commission,
the
commission's
decision
is
the
majority
or
whatever
it
is
whatever
your
motion
is.
The
motion
that
passes
is
what
I
defend.
If
somebody
here
has
a
disagreement
and
and
that's
fine,
you
can
have
a
different
opinion.
That's
fine,
I'm
not
defending
the
the
differing
opinion
and
it's
important
for
you
to
know
that.
I
Hopefully,
you
can
accept
that
if
you
have
a
differing
viewpoint
and-
and
you
won't
show
up
to
a
city
council
meeting
or
an
appeal
hearing
and
say
the
rest
of
my
colleagues
are
wrong.
Officially,
that
is
the
commission's
decision.
What
was
voted
on
so
anyways
feel
free
to
email.
Me
call
me
whatever
we'll
talk
more
about
this
stuff,
there's
the
video
on.
If
you
want
some
fun,
the
video
of
the
heinz
design
review
appeal
is
about
45
minutes.
I
Long
and
really
all
you
need
to
watch
is
the
last
10
minutes
where
the
applicant's
attorney
is
unprofessional
and
the
appellant's
attorney
completely
unravels,
and
it's
messy
and
I'm
just
sitting
there
trying
not
to
make
faces.
So
it's
entertaining
if
nothing
else,.
A
Well,
you
know
I
might
have
to
watch
that
I'm
I
miss
you
know
having
you
in
person
where
I
can
just
glance
over
and
see
you
not
try
to
make
faces
now
you
could
talk
about
this.
This
is
part.
I
A
So
thanks
paul,
I
think
that
is
very
helpful
and
I
always
hope
that
commissioners
know
that
a
robust
discussion
is
is
always
favorable
and
we,
you
know,
talk
through
our
thoughts
and
our
ideas
and
that
it
is
okay
to
disagree
with
staff.
There's
nothing
wrong
with
that,
but
we
do
have
the
added
burden
as
planning
commissioners
that
we
we
need
to.
You
know,
tie
those
to
a
standard
and
articulate
why
we
are
where
we're
differing,
why
we
think
that
that
threshold
wasn't
met,
but
that
that
is
that's
our
job.
I
I
A
She
thank
you
all
right.
Well,
thanks
everybody.
I
appreciate
all
your
patience
and
participation
tonight
and
this
meeting
is
adjourned
so
have
a
good
evening.