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From YouTube: Heritage Preservation Board February 3, 2020
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B
Good
evening
board
members
in
public,
my
name
is
Pat
McNeese,
I'm,
the
principal
planner
and
acting
director
for
Planning
and
Zoning
Department
and
we're
here,
as
you
know
this
evening,
to
talk
about
the
update
at
the
National,
Register
and
local
historic
district
design
review
guidelines
manual.
That
might
be
the
only
time
I
see
the
whole
thing.
B
We
have
a
lot
of
handouts
available
and
things
available
for
you.
If
you
saw
the
table
at
the
entrance,
there's
sign-in,
you
put
your
email
if
you
want
to
be
on
an
email
list
with
for
regular
updates,
go
ahead
and
check
that
box,
and
we
will
put
you
on
the
email
list
further
for
updates
on
this
project.
We
do
have
some
extra
copies
of
the
design
guidelines.
The
draft
outline
that
was
attached.
The
agenda
is
also
out
in
the
lobby
as
well.
There's
some
maps
out
there.
B
We
have
extra
copies
of
the
land
development
code
section.
It
goes
with
us
so
tonight
you
will
be
giving
your
input.
Hopefully
we're
gonna
hear
input
on
ideas
for
the
design
guidelines
and
the
update
of
those.
You
can
also
join
the
email
group.
You
can
provide
comments
to
our
email
comment,
email
which
is
planning
at
CTS
FL
us
my
cards
are
out
there.
You
can
take
one
of
my
cards
if
you
have
any
questions
or
need
all
that
information,
you
can
I'll
be
glad
to
help
you
with
that.
B
We
have
comment
cards
out
on
the
table
for
you
to
fill
out.
If
you
want
to
use
that
you
can
provide
comments
at
any
time,
we'd
like
to
get
pretty
much
the
bulk
of
the
comments
by
the
21st
of
February,
so
we
really
have
direction
to
take
off
with
the
with
a
draft
document
or
first
draft
document.
So
that's
about
three
weeks
from
now.
So
written
comments
are
best.
We
will
be
taking
notes
tonight,
but
really
like
to
get
as
much
input
as
we
can
and
with
that.
D
A
D
Sorry,
okay,
so
behind
me
this
is
Caitlin
Hearn
stat.
We
are
both
up
on
screen.
We
both
have
master's
degrees
in
historic
preservation.
What
that
means
is
we
are
qualified
by
the
Secretary
of
the
Interior
to
do
these
kind
of
projects.
If
this
is
not
a
project
that
just
anybody
can
do,
there
are
regulations
set
by
the
federal
government.
That
says
we
have
the
background
in
the
experience
and
the
education
to
do
this
kind
of
stuff.
So
rest
assured
we
have
that
and
we
will
do
our
best
to
get
you.
D
The
design
guideline
update
that
you
all
need
and
want,
and
a
little
bit
about
the
company
that
we
work
for,
which
is
a
it's
actually,
an
engineering
firm.
We
have
a
cultural
resource
group
within
the
engineering
firm.
We
do
a
lot
of
support
work
for
our
civil
engineers,
doing
section,
106
work
I'm
actually
just
go
through
their
a
lot
of
transportation
projects
and
a
lot
of
bridge
projects.
We
do
support
them,
but
we
also
have
our
own
group
where
we
do
a
lot
of
design
guideline
work.
D
We
do
National
Register
nominations,
we
do
large-scale
surveys
of
counties
and
municipalities
and
go
around
and
create
inventories
for
these
individual
municipalities
and
give
them
an
idea
of
what
sort
of
historical
inventory
they
have
as
buildings.
We
do
historic
resource
management
plans,
all
kind
of
stuff
that
cultural
resource
management
employees
do.
The
company
itself
is
a
hundred
percent
employee-owned
it
was
founded
in
1971
were
actually
the
company
is
actually
based
out
of
Maryland
Katelyn
and
I
do
not
fit
in
the
Maryland
office.
D
We
travel
all
over
the
country
doing
work
in
different
places,
which
is
a
very
nice
and
a
good
way
to
see
the
country
and
learn
about
architecture
and
the
stuff
that
we
love
in
all
different
different
areas.
And
again
we
are.
We
are
qualified
for
these
positions
as
that
one
by
the
secretary
of
the
interior.
D
So
during
the
design
review
process,
the
owners
of
locally
designated
designated
landmarks
and
districts
must
get
approval
for
the
locally
appointed
Preservation,
Commission
or
architectural
review
board
for
major
exterior
alterations
additions
and
new
constructions.
This
often
comes
in
a
form
of
a
CEO,
a
or
a
or
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
and
to
be
approved.
The
application
and
application
must
meet
the
design
review
criteria
that
is
set
within
the
preservation.
Odd
ordinance
that
the
community
has
adopted.
The
ordinance
is
the
law
and
the
design
review
criteria
or
the
guidelines
are
part
of
that
law.
D
D
They
are
not
the
law,
they
are
guidelines
in
order
to
keep
the
overall
aesthetic
of
the
the
district
and
the
houses,
and
you
know
ultimately,
the
economic
benefits
of
that
area.
Higher
is
what
the
the
goal
of
the
design
guidelines
are.
There
are
help.
They
are
helpful,
interpretive
explanatory
recommendations
consisting
of
a
combination
of
written
and
graphic
information
using
a
lot
of
local
examples.
We're
not
going
to
come
in
and
give
you
a
design
guidelines
with
photos
from
Somerville
South
Carolina,
where
we
just
did
our
last
design
guidelines.
D
D
If
everybody
has
a
copy
of
the
guidelines,
but
I'm
just
going
to
kind
of
walk
through
these
pretty
quickly
about
what
what
the
basically
the
table
of
contents
is,
which
is
a
pretty
standard
format
as
far
as
the
order
things
go
in,
it
will
start
with
an
introduction
into
preservation,
preservation
and
tarpon
springs
the
procedures,
meaning
how?
What
do
I
do?
What
do
I
need
to
do
to
get
my
CoA?
Is
there
a
form
I
have
to
fill
out,
do
I.
Look
a
meeting.
D
D
There
will
be
a
chapter
about
architectural
styles
that
are
existent
within
the
district,
which
right
now
there
is
that
in
the
current
guidelines,
it's
not
extensive.
It
does
not
include
all
of
the
different
styles,
so
we
want
to
make
sure
we
are,
including
all
of
the
different
styles
we're
using
a
survey
report
that
was
done
previously
to
complement
the
existing
list
in
the
design
guidelines.
D
Then
we
come
to
the
bulk
of
the
document,
which
is
the
design
guidelines.
That's
going
to
be
the
the
biggest
part
of
the
whole
thing.
It's
going
to
talk
about
Windows,
it's
going
to
talk
about
doors,
it's
going
to
talk
about
finishes
and
porches,
and
outbuildings
and
fences,
and
all
of
all
of
that
kind
of
information
we
have
appendices
which
are
there,
obviously
to
help
everybody
a
little
bit
more.
That
may
not
have
the
architectural
knowledge.
D
So
if
we
use
words
and
the
guidelines
that
are
not
familiar
to
everyone,
there's
going
to
be
an
appendix
with
that,
there's
going
to
be
an
appendix
that
has
more
information,
information
about
substitute
materials
and
we
like
to
also
include
the
actual
ordinance
itself
and
there,
as
well
as
a
bibliography
in
case.
Anybody
has
any
further
questions
or
wants
to
know
where
we
pulled
any
of
our
information
from
I.
D
Didn't
go
super
deep
into
detail
again
the
hand
the
outlines
that
I
believe
we're
on
the
table
have
really
what
was
what
specifically
is
proposed
for
each
chapter,
which
is
this
is
the
working
outline
that
we're
starting
with.
So
we
want
everybody
to
kind
of
take
a
look
at
that
and
give
us
your
feedback
on
that,
but
other
other
than
that.
We're
ready
to
just
kind
of
dive
in
and
see.
If
anybody
has
any
comments
or
questions
and
being.
A
A
E
Good
evening
my
name
is
Cindy.
Tear
panty
I
live
at
22
North
Stand
Boulevard
I'll
try
to
keep
it
for
four
minutes,
I'm
not
sure
I
can
get
to
that.
But
I
will
try.
As
many
of
you
know,
I've
been
a
planner
for
over
38
years
and
not
just
in
historic
preservation,
but
other
fields
and
planning
also
served
as
the
executive
director
to
the
Florida
Trust
for
Historic
Preservation.
E
The
National
excuse
me,
the
statewide
preservation
organization,
I
served
as
a
member
of
the
national
review
board
for
the
state
of
Florida,
so
I
have
a
good
bit
of
experience
in
preservation.
I
also
have
some
hands-on
experience
for
innovating
our
house
and
historic
buildings.
We
own
downtown,
as
well
as
I,
was
fortunate
to
serve
with
many
of
you
on
this
preservation
board.
So
I
came
to
it
with
that
perspective,
but,
more
importantly,
I
came
to
looking
at
this
with
the
perspective
of
a
homeowner
who
wants
to
do
a
specific
project?
E
E
E
Almost
all
of
my
career
has
been
administering
zoning
codes
and
comprehensive
plans
and
local
government,
so
I
know
how
it
works.
Every
single
day,
I'm
in
I've,
sat
in
packed
shoes
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
help
applicants
through
and
sat
in
y'all
shoes
and
doing
that
so
I
just
say
say
to
you:
do
a
procedures
manual
but
make
it
a
separate
document
and
then,
as
I
said,
I
really
thought
about.
How
would
an
apple
can't
use
this,
and
how
would
you
use
this
because
you're
going
to
have
a
project
to
do
one
thing?
E
So
how
does
that
person
figure
out
and
navigate
the
guideline?
So
my
suggestion
is
that
you
revise
it
to
kind
of
this
overall
format
and
I'm.
On
page
2
of
my
memo,
I
would
suggest
that
chapter
4
needs
to
be
the
guidelines
that
apply
to
everything
the
secretary's
standards,
any
of
those
general
rules
that
apply
everywhere
and
those
are
things
like
preserve.
First
renovate,
second,
replace
that
a
completely
last
resort
create
new
as
the
last
last
resort.
E
You
know
you
kind
of
set
out
the
philosophy,
then
I
would
suggest
that
chapter
5
should
be
the
guidelines
for
for
Wrentham
for
residential
commercial,
historic
buildings.
That's
what
you're
doing
you're
doing
a
renovation,
your
property!
You
would
go
to
chapter
5
and
then
there's
some.
It
would
have
to
be
broken
down.
Obviously,
in
a
couple
different
sections,
then
I
would
suggest
at
chapter
6
and
I.
Think
the
summary
of
architectural
styles
is
a
great
idea,
because
people
need
to
know
what
are
the
character,
defining
features
of
that
style.
E
I
think
something
that's
not
really
a
most
important
feature
of
the
style.
You
can
probably
be
more
flexible
on
the
most
important
features
of
that
particular
style.
You
want
to
hold
the
line
on
and
be
you
know
fairly
serious
about.
You
know.
Those
changes
to
that
suggested.
Chapter
7
is
new
construction
or
relocation,
whether
if
someone's
building
a
new
building,
maybe
they're,
building
an
accessory
building
in
the
back.
Maybe
it's
a
whole
new
construction,
but
all
the
new
stuff,
anything
new
that
someone's
building
that's
a
whole
separate
its
own
category
and
then
chapter
8.
It's.
F
G
E
Suffer
through
because
we
didn't
really
have
anything
in
the
guidelines
on
how
you
do
with
pools
and
pool
cages.
What
do
you
do
with
hurricane
shutters?
What
do
you
do
with
solar
panels,
etc,
etc?
So
that's
I'm
kind
of
my
overall
suggestion.
I
have
a
couple
other
comments
at
the
end,
but
I
would
just
leave
you
with
a
couple
things.
One
make
sure
the
language
is
easy
to
understand,
we're
not
all
architectural
historians
and
then
I
appreciate
what
y'all
are
doing,
but
that's
not
the
typical
homeowner.
They
are
not
going
to
be
an
architectural
historian.
E
Second
thing
is
I
know.
One
thing
we
struggled
with
all
the
time
on
this
board
is:
when
is
window
replacement?
Okay,
it
has
to
do
with
whether
it's
a
historic
structure,
not
obviously,
but
how
much
damage
is.
Okay
before
you
can
rip
a
little
out
to
replace
the
guidelines
are
now
a
pretty
vague
and
then
the
last
thing
I
would
suggest
is
that
there
be
some
language
matter
where
you
call
it
best
practices,
and
you
say
what
can
be
done
or
you
say,
recommended
or
not
recommended
something
like
that
to
make
it
really
clear.
E
After
you,
after
you
state
the
requirement
what
is
acceptable
or
not
acceptable
or
recommended,
or
not
recommended
something
like
that,
so
that's
really
clear
to
people
if
not
recommitted
fits
if
you're
asked
for
something
that's
not
recommended.
The
person
knows
in
advance
that
they're
gonna
have
an
issue
and
a
problem
with
the
application
mi
ask
just
common.
E
Is
that
if
perhaps
you're
going
to
get
this
at
some
point
but
I'd
like
to
know
what
the
next
steps
are:
you're
gonna
post
a
draft
online,
is
there
going
to
be
another
workshop
I'm
assuming
there
will
be
to
review
if
we
could
just
address
that
at
some
point
with
the
next
steps
would
be
and
I.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Okay,.
H
Hello,
my
name's
Carrie
root,
I'm,
a
resident
of
the
local
historic
district
203
saw
Spring
Boulevard
first.
Thank
you
very
much
for
holding
this
workshop
I
think
it's
long
overdue.
We've
watched
many
many
buildings
go
by
the
wayside.
Many
buildings
get
changed
and
it's
happened
for
a
lot
of
reasons.
Documentation
is
a
big
part
of
it.
The
first
thing
I
want
to
say
in
general
to
the
city
is
thank
you
for
stepping
up
recognition
that
we
do
have
national
and
local
historic
districts
through
the
street.
Signs
that
have
been
put
up.
H
Thank
you
mark
and
I
hope
that
those
street
signs
go
to
every
block.
That
is
touched
by
that
special
designation
and
I
also
hope.
The
city
looks
ahead
to
go
ahead
and
put
those
same
street
signs
up
where
we
have
a
national
cultural
district.
Most
people
are
surprised
to
hear
that
we
actually
have
the
designation
of
natural
cultural
district,
and
our
map
does
not
indicate
that
so
I
would
ask
that
going
forward
with
the
the
map.
H
That
was
hand
was
that
handed
out
in
the
back
yeah
that
the
National
cultural
district
is
also
added
onto
that.
Just
as
a
question,
how
many
of
you
knew
about
the
National
cultural
district?
There
you
go
all
right,
which
leads
me
to
part
of
the
guidelines.
We
can
have
the
best
guidelines
in
the
world
and
well
maybe
the
guidelines
that
we've
had
are
not
as
up-to-date
as
they
could
be.
They
are
guidelines,
but
if
they're
not
enforced
and
they're
not
enforced,
consistently
they're
not
useful.
H
So
we
can
put
a
lot
of
energy
into
new
guidelines,
but
we
have
the
same
problem.
They
have
to
be
enforced.
They
have
to
be
enforced
consistently.
Let
me
give
you
I
forgot
to
give
you
my
background.
I'm,
a
member
of
the
National
Historic
Trust
I'm,
a
member
of
the
Florida
Historic
Trust
I've,
been
through
CDL
training
through
their
national
to
the
Florida
Historic
Trust
I've
served
on
HPB
board
for
quite
a
few
years
and
I've
also
served
as
chairman
of
that
board.
I
saw
a
lot
of
things
in
my
tenure
on
the
HPB.
H
The
first
thing
is
that,
if
we're
going
to
go
ahead
and
put
guidance
material
in
these
guidelines
and
history
and
other
things
that
maybe
don't
directly
relate
to
a
decision
made
on
how
you
change
a
building,
be
it
in
that
document
or
a
supplemental
document
I
would
ask
that
you
consider
adding
the
following
information.
The
first
is
guidance
on
the
experience
that
a
city
manager,
our
city,
HR
manager,
should
have,
when
looking
for
people
to
support
the
historic
preservation
board.
H
Second,
it's
difficult
always
to
find
people
with
that
sort
of
background.
So,
if
they're
not
able
to
find
that
I
think
it
would
be
very
helpful
for
our
historic
preservation
experts
to
indicate
where
appropriate
training
could
be
obtained
from
the
people
from
the
city
that
support
this
board.
The
third
thing
is
we
often
draw
from
our
citizens,
who
may
or
may
not
have
the
experience
needed
to
effectively
administer
the
decisions.
I
mean
this
is
a
decision-making
board
and
when,
when
I
was
they
asked
to
be
put
on
it.
H
My
first
thing
was
well
I
haven't
done
this
before
I
live
in
the
district.
Where
can
I
go
for
education
and
that's
why
I
I
became
part
of
the
Florida
Historic
Trust
I
took
their
training
where
it
was
offered.
I
did
that
on
my
own
dime
in
my
own
time,
because
I
made
a
commitment
to
understand
what
I
was
getting
into
and
I
think
that
one
of
the
criteria
that
should
be
put
onto
people
who
serve
on
this
board
is
a
willingness
to
go
get
educated.
H
The
next
thing
is
I
think
it's
critical
to
have
a
scorecard.
We
need
to
assess
where
we
are,
because
that
map
that
was
put
out
is
not
up-to-date.
With
regards
to
the
state
of
the
properties.
The
next
thing
we
need
education
of
our
commissioners.
I've
walked
watched,
good
decisions
made
by
the
HPB,
get
turned
over
again
and
again,
because
they
were
not
educated
or
knowledgeable
of
what.
What
historic
preservation
really
is,
and
you
can't
have
an
effective
ordinance
if
it's
not
enforced
and
then
again
on
chapter.
I
I
My
concern
is
that
the
City
Commission
doesn't
fully
understand
the
Historic
Preservation
Board.
I'm.
Sorry
didn't
support
your
decision
on
the
church.
It
was
wrong.
Three
commissioners
voted
to
let
them
have
what
they
wanted:
its
interfered
with
the
beauty
and
the
historic
preservation
and
the
historic
document
of
st.
Nicholas
Church.
After
that
meeting,
when
I
called
Tallahassee
spoke
to
different
departments
up
there,
they
agreed
that
it
should
have
said
stood
firm.
I
You
need
to
have
a
meeting
and
I'm
going
to
ask
the
city
manager
to
offer
a
work
session
so
that
they
will
understand
where
you
were
coming
from.
The
community
supports
you.
The
Greek
community
supports
you
on
that
decision
decision
that
you're
made
it's
caused
quite
a
controversy,
but
it's
over
with
now
and
I
want
to
thank
you
and
I
want
to
thank
Commissioner
Khare,
who
did
some
extensive
research
on
the
historic
preservation
and
stood
with
y'all
on
that
decision.
I
The
Ethics
Commission
was
concerned
about
the
vote
that
was
made.
I,
don't
know
if
they'll
ever
do
anything
about
it,
they
usually
don't,
but
it
was
reported
and
I
think
it's
very
important
what
the
two
previous
speakers
spoke
about,
having
it
documented.
So
people
can
read
and
I
want
to.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
say
every
decision
you've
made
that
has
been
overturned.
You
were
right.
A
D
B
D
B
B
A
I
had
a
concern:
there
are
a
lot
of
people
that
are
elderly
that
have
purchased
a
home
years
ago.
That
is
historic,
but
now,
for
economic
reasons,
are
having
difficulty
renovating
or
bringing
up
to
restore
that
historical
building,
and
there
was
some
mention
of
their
grant
funds
and
other
opportunities
to
raise
funding
for
these
residents
or
business
owners
to
restore
it
to
what
it
should
be.
A
Does
the
city
planner
have
that
information
to
be
able
to
give
to
the
applicants
as
they
come
in
and
say:
hey
I'm
in
a
historical
district
and
I've
got
these
problems
going
on
and
I'm
economically
strapped.
So
what
can
I
do
before
I
bring
it
to
the
Heritage
Preservation
Board?
Are
there
any
grants
or
there
any
of
this?
B
B
A
B
A
B
A
J
When
we
make
these
guidelines,
if,
if
the
guidelines
are
for
the
historic
district,
but
there
are
various
ages
and
in
the
historic
district
I
mean
that
everything
should
be
classified
the
same,
it
seems
wrong.
I
mean
there
are
homes
that
were
built
in
1890
and
there
were
homes
that
were
built
in
1960
and
as
it
stands
now,
we're
judging
them
all
at
the
same
they're
all
following
it
falling
into
the
same
guidelines
that
we've
got.
B
F
B
Being
an
example:
not
in
there
the
minimal
traditional
that
you
guys
dealt
it's
not
in
there.
Those
are
the
kind
of
things
we
weren't
around
out,
but
the
standards
are
are
different
for
different
different
styles.
So
when
we
look
at
the
style
you're
looking
at
for
for
whatever
it
is
a
roof
or
siding
or
windows
or
doors,
we
look
at
the
guidelines.
B
A
B
J
A
Did
have
in
our
closure
style,
but
it
differed
from
what
the
church
was
they
needed
visiting
and
they
were
wanting
to
renovate
write
this
into
Byzantine
and
it
was
not
a
Byzantine
structure,
so
that
meant
it
went
against
the
secretary
of
state
guidelines,
which
would
mean
know,
which
is
what
we
voted.
No.
B
Yeah,
and-
and
the
purpose
of
this
is
really
you
know-
that
was
that
was
an
individual
case,
but
most
of
most
of
what
you
guys
look
at
you
know
95%
of
what
you
look
at
the
people
do
and
they
come
before
you
and
you
you
approve,
or
some
of
them
you've
sent
back
pretty
much
most
of
them.
They
do
comply
with
with
what
you're
looking
for,
and
so
what
we're
looking
for
at
this
workshop
is:
where
have
you
seen
the
issues
like
like
the
boat
like
the
boat
dock?
Do
you
do.
A
B
First
for
a
site
wall
yeah,
so
some
of
those
features
that
are
noted,
for
example,
on
the
site
file
form
for
a
property
that
are
the
features
that
are
noted
on
the
site
file
form
for
a
specific
property.
It's
not
just
limited
to
the
building
right.
Sometimes
it's
the
site
wall
or
an
outbuilding
or
some
other
feature.
A
D
A
little
bit,
the
purpose
of
putting
the
architectural
styles
in
the
design
guidelines
is
to
identify,
what's
present
in
Tarpon
Springs
and
provide
character-defining
features.
So
everybody
knows
what
to
look
for
the
way.
The
actual
bulk
of
the
the
guideline
chapter
or
chapters
are
written
is
more,
it's
kind
of
more
on
a
macro
level.
D
We're
not
going
to
say
you
know
you
always
have
to
replace
something
with
X
kind
of
roof,
because
that's
what
was
on
you
know
a
Victorian
house
or
X
kind
of
window,
because
that's
what's
in
a
ranch,
a
lot
of
times,
you'll
see
Burbage
in
kind,
so
you
want
something
that's
similar
to
what
was
there
previously.
If
what
was
there
previously
was
historic.
D
You
know
fiberglass
front
door
that
you
see,
you
need
something
that's
going
to
fit
with
the
style
of
the
house,
so
the
design
guidelines
themselves
are
not
written
in
a
way
that
they're
constantly
referencing
one
style
of
architecture,
it's
written
so
that,
regardless
of
what
style
architecture
in
your
house
is,
these
are
still
going
to
apply
and
we
do
often
put
in,
for
instance,
I,
think
I
think
Cindy.
You
have
mentioned
this
like
this
is
the
best
case
scenario.
If
you
can't
do
this,
then
do
this.
D
This
is
better
and
then
this
is
what
you
don't
want
to
do.
We
try
to
put
that
in
not
for
every
instance
throughout
the
guidelines,
but
we
do
try
to
put
that
in
and
certain
especially
with
something
like
windows.
It
is
a
hot
topic,
regardless
of
where
in
the
country
you
live,
that's
always
gonna,
be
you
know.
The
best
case
scenario
is
replace.
You
know.
Wood
windows
with
wood
windows
next
case
scenario
is
this
next
case
scenario.
D
D
D
K
K
D
And
it's
it's
not
easy
by
any
stretch.
This
is
the
first
location
that
we've
worked
in
for
design
guidelines
where
hurricanes
were
as
big
of
a
concern,
and
that
then
brings
into
the
issue
of
insurance,
which
is
you
know
we
have
to
do
research
on
our
end,
to
kind
of
really
figure
out
what
what
is
gonna
be
the
best
guidance
to
give
there.
No
one
wants
to
be
unreasonable.
D
D
Unfortunately,
unfortunately,
wood
windows
are
expensive
or
refurbishing.
Existing
wood
windows
is
expensive,
but
if
your
wood
windows
are
good
and
fit
properly,
they
are
very
energy
efficient,
which
I
think
a
lot
of
people.
Don't
know
that,
but
I
I
have
a
problem
when
people
just
want
to
take
them
out
and
just
go
again
to
Home
Depot
Lowe's
and
just
get
whatever
white
vinyl
off
of
the
shelf.
There
are
other
options
that
aren't
wood
or
aren't
white.
K
A
F
K
A
Another
issue
that
I
would
like
put
in
here
it's
more
of
a
guideline
when
someone
purchased
a
property
in
this
in
a
historical
district
and
it's
already
in
bad
shape,
and
they
sit
on
that
property
for
years
on
end
and
do
not
do
anything
to
restore
it
or
to
try
to
do
anything
for
it
and
then
wait
until
it's
condemned
and
then
come
before
the
board
and
say
hey.
You
know,
nothing
can
be
done
now
now.
Tear
it
down.
A
D
Then
we
can
absolutely
put
a
demolition
by
neglect
in
there.
I
think
we
need
it
and
again
its
guidance.
You
know
there's
only
so
much,
though,
that
we
can
do
we
can't
force
anybody's
hand,
but
if
you
have
the
guidance
and
you're
making
decisions
based
on
a
specific
guideline,
then
it's
it's
better
footing.
J
B
A
Let's
go
open
it
back
up
to
the
public.
Mrs.
hare
panty
has
something
she
would
like
to
say.
So
let
her
come
forward.
Anyone
else
would
like
to
speak
after
her.
Let's
try
to
keep
it
to
a
4-minute.
E
I'm,
thank
you.
Madam
chairman
Cindy
Tara
panting,
22,
North,
Springville,
Lord
I
was
surprised
by
the
4minute
because
we've
never
used
that
so
I
didn't
plan.
My
presentation
that
way.
I'm
sorry
but
two
thoughts
for
based
on
the
comments
at
y'all
had
Laura
Laura,
will
probably
remember
you
might
be
the
only
one
I
think
Pat
might
have
been
on
the
board
too,
when
the
previous
planner
suggested
doing
a
mail
out
annually
to
everyone
all
owners
in
the
district.
It's
just
a
FYI
you're
in
the
historic
district.
Please
go
to
the
city's
website.
E
If
you're
planning
any
changes,
it
was
a
real
kind
of
simple
thing.
I
think
she
was
even
imposing
do
it
on
a
postcard,
because
there's
nothing
that
I'm
aware
of
that
requires
a
real
estate
agent
to
disclose
that
it's
not
a
disclosable
item
in
Florida.
So
the
only
way
people
might
know
is
if
they
look
around,
but
the
people
that
don't
want
to
recognize
it
or
not
ever
gonna
recognize
it.
So
you
always
have
that
problem.
Then
the
only
other
thing
I
would
say
is
about
education
and
Carrie
mentioned
it.
E
E
It
was,
but
it's
a
really
great
way
to
get
experience
and
the
best
part
is
you
meet
other
people
who
are
doing
the
same
thing.
You
are
and
you're
gonna
learn
just
from
talking
to
them
as
you're
there
and
then
the
other
one
is
that
group
I
mentioned
you
guys
when
I
was
here
last
month
and
National
Association
of
Preservation
Commission's
has
a
fabulous
website.
That's
in
a
PC
National
Association
of
preservation
Commission's,
and
they
really
have
some
great
educational
material.
I
mean
it
it's
sitting
there.
E
F
My
name
is
Jacob
Carr
reside
at
146
Cleveland
place.
I
am
also
a
city
commissioner,
but
this
isn't
me
as
a
city
commissioner,
asking
for
anything
to
be
done.
This
is
just
as
a
resident.
I
sat
on
your
board
for
about
three
years,
so
I
did
see
some
curious
applications
come
before
us
and
I
just
want
to
bring
up
a
couple
items,
maybe
to
look
at
as
well
so
growing
up
in
the
historic
district.
F
But
one
of
the
things
I
know
that
came
up
was
a
driveway
situation
and
so,
like
a
circle,
Drive
I
think
isn't
allowed
in
the
code
today,
but
with
some
of
the
issues
with
the
road
axises
and
some
other
aspects,
I
think
it
would
be
something
at
least
to
look
at
and
evaluate
with
the
size
of
the
vehicles
and
on
how
some
of
the
roads
are
have
a
lot
of
extra
I.
Guess:
traffic
going
down
these
roads.
So
it's
difficult
to
pull
out
on
to
like
a
safe,
Spring
Boulevard,
for
example.
F
Another
one
was
if
I
remember
correctly
and
I,
don't
recall
if
this
is
exactly
how
the
code
lies,
but
I
believe
if
you
want
to
put
a
wall
in
front
of
your
house
and
need
to
match
the
building
of
this,
the
your
house
itself.
So
if
you
have
a
wood
house,
it's
been
difficult
to
put
a
wood
fence.
Maybe
if
you
wanted
it,
maybe
a
brick
fence
that
fits
the
area
or
an
old
stone
fence.
F
I
would
say
if
it
fits
the
character
of
the
neighborhood
I,
think
that
might
be
something
you
might
want
to
evaluate,
because
it's
very
restrictive
you
could
have
a
picket
fence
up,
would
be
a
wood
fence
correct.
But
if
you
wanted
a
permanent
fence
you,
it
would
be
very
difficult
to
do
that.
Based
on
the
guidelines
today,
one
other
one
would
be
the
building
materials
and
I
know.
This
is
a
sensitive
subject
but
being
in
Florida,
and
if
you
replace
a
wood
on
a
siding
of
the
house,
say
it's
a
pine,
a
fresh
pine.
F
We
know
that
the
pine
that's
relatively
used
today
deteriorates
so
much
faster
than
maybe
a
cypress
wood
or
a
heart
pine
that
was
harvested.
Maybe
a
hundred
years
ago,
I
would
like
to
see
the
ability
to
use
hardy
board
at
the
bottom
of
the
house
to
prevent
if
it's
a
moisture,
going
up
the
side
of
the
house
or
because
being
in
some
his
houses
I've
taken
care
of
a
lot
more
some
around
the
Bayou.
F
Is
you
see
you
replace
the
pine
wood
and
then
five
years
later,
you're
replacing
that
same
pine
wood
again
and
it's
painted
but
a
hardy
board?
If
it's
the
same,
look
I
think
you
have
an
opportunity
to
help
preserve
that
look
of
the
house
itself.
Now
I'm,
not
saying
the
whole
house
should
be
Hardy
board,
but
I
think
it
would
be
a
good
idea
to
least
evaluate
that
and
see
what
other
avenues
they
are
because
Florida
has
such
unique
climate
and
I
think
it's
important
to
keep
the
look
of
the
house
overall.
I
I
Need
a
person
I
don't
want
Bayshore
Drive
is
our
building
director
here.
No
other
departments
that
have
something
to
do
with
the
historic
district
in
our
older
homes
know
we
should
have
a
meeting
like
this
and
ask
them
to
come
and
the
people
in
their
departments.
Those
who
process
permits
to
understand.
What's
going
on
an
example,
is
the
I
think
it
was
the
Ferno
Building
uptown
one
day,
I
got
a
call
there
taking
the
windows
out,
the
historic
glass
and
all
I
went
up
there
and
saw
it
and
came
here
to
the
building
department.
I
I
said
was
this:
did
this
go
in
front
of
the
Historic
Preservation
Board
I'm,
not
gonna
name
the
name,
but
he
said
we
have
a
historic
preservation
board
here
and
I
said
you
don't
know
you're
head
of
a
department
here,
that's
not
right,
so
our
mayor's
listing,
maybe
he
can
ask
them
to
have
a
meeting,
so
they
can
learn
about
all
of
this.
That's
very
important.
You
need
to
read
the
rules
and
regulations
and
you
can
get
a
copy
of
it
from
st.
Augustine,
Tallahassee,
Thomasville
Georgia
and
throughout
Alabama
and
our
southern
states.
I
What
they
have
done
for
preservation
of
their
homes
and
their
buildings,
especially
in
st.
Augustine
they've,
got
a
very
strict
one
and
in
Thomasville
Georgia
it's
like
the
Gestapo
there
to
preserve,
because
we
are
chipping
away
little
by
little
of
our
historic
and
not
only
it's
tarping,
one
of
the
nicest
historic
towns
next
to
st.
Augustine.
I
Once
it's
gone,
it
cannot
be
replaced
and
we
need
to
start
acting
very
diligently
very
demanding
Lee
of
our
brick
streets,
preserving
what
we
have
not
only
in
the
docks
and
in
Greektown,
but
all
over
tarpon
springs
so
that
we
can
be
known
as
one
of
the
leading
historic
preservation
communities
in
the
south
with
what
we
have.
Can
you
imagine
what
tarpon
springs
would
be
like
we've
lost
too
much
already
and
I.
Thank
y'all
for
having
this
board.
I
I
might
not
be
able
to
stay
for
the
whole
meeting,
but
thank
you
for
what
you're
doing
join
the
Historic
Preservation
boards
in
the
state
of
Florida
wealth
of
knowledge.
Take
your
trips
once
again.
Let's
invite
them
down
here
to
tarpon
springs
the
boards
of
the
Historic
Preservation.
The
city
should
be
able
to
host
them.
So
they
can
see
and
help
us
here
and
help
our
rules
and
regulations
and
our
permits.
Thank
you
for
what
you're
doing
the
Commission
needs
to
learn
to
stand
up
behind
you
as
the
board
to
preserve
what
we
have.
G
Yodas
5:38
was
Cedar,
Street
tarpon
springs,
just
a
comment.
I
I
just
want
to
always
put
in
a
pitch
for
remembering
tarpon
springs
and
that
Historic
Preservation
guidelines
and
district
is
somewhat
of
a
new
generation
thing.
It
didn't
exist
thirty
years
ago,
forty
years
ago
and
many
of
the
families
that
either
built
those
homes
are
inherited
through
their
families
still
live
there
and
oftentimes.
They
are
not
economically
well-off
as
many
homes
that
you
see
remodeled
today
and
oftentimes.
G
It's
not
just
meeting
the
Historic
Preservation
guidelines,
but
it's
also
satisfying
the
building
code.
Things
can
get
very
expensive,
I
live
in
Greektown
and
I
wanted
to
replace
an
old
door
on
the
front
of
our
home.
Now
I'm,
a
retired
PE,
a
structural
engineer
and
I
spoke
to
Kevin
Powell
who's,
an
excellent
building
director
by
the
way
and
he
needed
I.
It
was
an
odd
shape,
just
like
many
of
the
historic
homes,
they're,
not
standard
and
so
I
needed
to
order
a
door
from
Georgia,
basically
an
old
pine
door.
G
Contacted
one
of
my
friends
who
I
turned
over
all
my
clients
who,
after
I
retired
and
he
did
the
work
for
me
on
a
on
just
as
a
professional
courtesy
but
just
I-
think
of
the
people
that
still
live
in
the
older
homes
that
need
to
replace
a
window
glass,
a
door
and
sometimes
they
reach.
They
have
a
hard
time
doing
that
and
oftentimes.
Maybe
code
enforcement
would
come
after
them,
maybe
times
they
would.
They
are
able
to
patch
it
together
to
keep
it
going.
G
The
one
thing
that
I
would
like
to
ask:
Historic,
Preservation,
Board
and
I:
don't
know
whether
this
would
be
in
your
purview.
Certainly
you
would
have
to
be
approved
by
the
Board
of
Commissioners
is
to
consider
some
kind
of
a
need-based
grant
for
perhaps
taking
care
of
the
homes.
Maybe
they
would
like
to
make
an
improvement,
but
they
don't
quite
have
the
money
to
do
it,
but
maybe
a
need
space
grant.
We
do
that
in
the
in
the
Community
Redevelopment
area.
We
have
grants
for
facade
grants,
we're
now
talking
about
an
interior
grant
and
I.
G
Don't
think
it
would
be
out
of
character
for
the
community
at
least
some
of
the
older
families
that
could
demonstrate
that
they
have
a
need
to
perhaps
offer
some
kind
of
historic
preservation
grant
to
assist
them
and
changing
out
a
door
or
something
to
keep
it
historic
that
they
couldn't
otherwise
afford.
Thank
you
thank.
A
A
But
I've
heard
people
discuss,
oh,
we
want
to
bring
tiny
houses
in
or
we
want
to
build
a
parking
garage
and
buildings
above
it,
whether
it
be
businesses
or
whether
it
be
apartments
and
I
want
to
know
what
the
guidelines
are
in,
putting
that
into
a
historic
district
or
does
that
need
to
go
outside
of
the
historic
district?
What
is
the
guidelines
for
that?
If
they
want
to
build
a
parking
garage
in
the
district
apartments?
On
top
of
it?
So.
D
There
is
a
section
for
new
construction
and
again
it's
it's,
how
to
approach
new
construction.
It's
a
you
know.
You
need
to
look
at
the
setback
and
you
need
it's
similar
to
zoning
a
stoning
code.
You
look
at
the
setback,
but
it
should
fit
with
the
surrounding
structures.
Is
the
massing
the
same?
Is
the
style
somewhat
similar?
If
you
look
around,
is
it
gonna
stand
out
like
a
sore
thumb?
Basically,
which
is
what
you
don't
want?
D
D
It
gives
you
less
of
a
ground
stand
on
when
I
think
it's
so
specific,
but
I
mean
there
once
once
you
see
the
document
and
how
it
comes
together
in
the
section
about
new
construction.
If
you
feel
like
something
should
be
in
there,
that
needs
to
be
tweaked
to
prevent
things
like
that
from
happening.
You
know
we
can.
We
can
go
from
there,
but
I
would
I
wouldn't
want
to
address.
D
A
J
Well,
the
guidelines
have
anything
that
would
involve
the
Heritage
Board
in
some
of
the
decisions
to
do
that
are
not
structural,
like
the
street.
Signs
that
went
up
through
the
historic
district
I
heartily
approve
of
them,
but
we
had
nothing
to
say
about
that
or
them
if
they
want
to
repave
the
streets
in
the
historic
district
that
are
basically
brick
underneath
and
want
to
tie
them
over.
Do
we
have
any
input
or
have
we
any
anything
to
say
about
it?
I
mean
this
is
historic
to
the
streets
as
well
as
the
buildings
yeah.
B
B
Do
not
have
direct
purview
over
over
those.
As
you
know,
your
purview
is
over
over
properties
that
are
in
the
district
and
and
as
they're
designated
I'm
sure
in
general.
As
we
work
through
these
guidelines,
you
know
I'm
sure
the
Board
of
Commissioners
would
appreciate
any
input
or
any
ideas
or
or
guidance
you
you
may
have
for
them
on
those
issues,
but
you
know
those
would
be
those
would
be
city
projects
and
in
public
public
realm
and
those
would
those
would
not
be.
Those
would
not
go
through
our
review
process
here.
B
Well,
outside
the
regular
notification
that
everybody
gets
of
board
a
commissioner
meetings,
we
we
usually
don't
but
like
I
say,
might
be
something
where
you
might
want
to
look
at.
You
know
just
your
general,
if
you
have
general
feeling
about
those
types
of
public
roam,
features
in
a
historic
district.
B
A
A
B
You
can
you
can
talk
about
this.
Like
the
section
you
know
we
had
this,
this
application
at
your
last
meeting
about
spring
by
you
and
or
that
affected
spring
by
you
and
in
some
people's
minds,
and
your
guidelines
do
refer
to
scenic
views,
but
maybe
those
types
of
things,
landscape
and
landscape
views
scenic
views
that
you
think
are
important
in
the
district.
So
those
are
things
that
you
can
talk
about.
B
You
know
we
have
a
tree
ordinance.
Trees
are
important.
We
have
a
pretty
darn
good
tree
ordinance,
so
I
know
there
may
be
sir
I
can
comment,
but
I
know
there
are
cities
that
that
go
go.
You
know
talk
about
historic
trees
and
large
trees
and
things,
but
but
you
know
we're
in
pretty
good
shape
with
trees,
but
all
that's
part
of
the
ambience
of
the
district.
You
guys
have
per
view
good
example
a
lot
of
times
people
would
ask.
Well
why
are
we
seeing
signs?
A
A
B
B
B
B
So
then,
to
finish
that
thought,
then
the
document
will
go
to
the
Board
of
Commissioners
for
them
to
accept
and
yeah
I
written
comments,
our
best
email,
you
can
bring
them
in.
If,
if
you
you
don't
have
something
you
can
take
one
of
the
documents
and
mark
it
up
pages
I
will
be
glad
to
scan
that
in
and
make
a
copy
for
you
so
anyway,
you
want
to
do
it
that
that
would
be
great.
We
will
take
any
kind
of
written
comments.
Okay
and.
A
A
B
E
B
I
Have
an
ordinance
here
in
the
city
on
the
granite,
you
mentioned
the
granite,
it's
not
being
enforced
when
they
did
the
sidewalks
down
in
Greektown.
The
granite
was
thrown
to
the
side.
I
know
I
personally
called
the
city
manager
and
told
him
I
said
at
night
they're
picking
up
the
granite
people
were
picking
up
the
granite
contractors
were.
The
granite
is
supposed
to
be
picked
up
by
the
city
and
stockpiled
to
put
around
the
city
on
their
curving
they're,
not
enforcing
it.
I
You
need
to
look
into
what
ordinances
they
have
on
signs
streets,
sidewalks
and
look
at
what
needs
to
be
brought
before
the
historic
preservation
in
these
areas
and
if
they
don't
have
some
of
them,
it
needs
to
be
done.
That's
what
they're
doing
in
historic
communities
throughout
the
United
States
and,
like
I,
said
get
st.
Augustine
get
Tallahassee
it
Thomasville
Georgia
get
Atlanta,
look
at
the
restrictions
that
they
have,
but
we
have
some
ordinances
here,
but
they're
not
being
enforced.