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From YouTube: Heritage Preservation Board November 7, 2022
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A
A
bewitching
hour
we're
going
to
call
this
meeting
to
order.
A
First,
off
we're
going
to
do
is
go
public
is,
if
there's
any
public
comments
hearing
none
we
can
continue.
Can.
C
A
A
A
A
B
Hello
good
evening,
everyone,
my
name-
is
Regina
Kardash
and
I'm,
going
to
be
your
board
attorney,
at
least
for
a
little
while
here
and
I
am
board
certified
by
the
Florida
bar
in
city,
county
and
government
law
I've
been
practicing
for
over
15
years
and
what
I
have
for
you
tonight
is
just
a
little
refresher
since
we
don't
know
each
other,
and
you
know
you
guys-
have
never
taken
advice
from
me.
I
kind
of
want
to
set
the
groundwork
a
little
bit
for
what
you
all
do
as
a
board.
B
So,
instead
of
the
typical
quasi-judicial
announcement
that
you'd
have
I
want
to
go
a
little
bit
more
in
depth
into
what
the
rules
are,
and
you
have
in
front
of
you
this
little
handout
here
that
has
the
PowerPoint
slides
and,
in
addition
to
that,
I
also
passed
out
your
rules
of
procedure
because
I
don't
know
when
the
last
time
as
a
board,
you
all
went
over
your
quasi-judicial
rules
or
went
over
your
rules
of
procedure,
the
ones
that
you
have
were
enacted
in
2008
and
they
look
really
good
they're
in
good
shape,
they're
they're
solid.
B
They
follow
all
the
due
process,
requirements
and
constitutional
requirements,
so
as
I
go
through,
this
I'll
tell
you
kind
of
where
I
am
what
what
page
and
what
slide
here.
First,
the
title
of
this
presentation
is
the
quasi-judicial
proceedings,
the
rules
of
playing,
judge
and
jury,
because
that's
essentially
what
you're
doing
when
you
sit
in
your
role
as
a
quasi-judicial
board,
and
you
you
hear
quasi-judicial
hearings.
You
are
sitting
in
the
place
and
in
the
role
of
a
judge,
making
a
legal
determination
on
these
applications.
B
So
the
purpose
of
having
quasi-judicial
rules
is
kind
of
three-fold.
Right.
You
have
the
orderly,
the
orderly
conduct
of
government,
business
Civility
and
the
conduct
of
that
business
and
then,
most
importantly,
is
making
sure
that
your
proceedings
are
in
line
with
the
Constitution
and
the
essential
requirements
of
law
right,
so
I
have
that
little
slide
there.
That
kind
of
addresses
the
civility
portion
with
the
quote
from
Abraham
Lincoln
that
second
slide
down
and
then
at
the
very
bottom.
B
It
has
what
the
court
have
said
that
a
quasi-judicial
hearing
is
and
a
quasi-judicial
hearing
and
knowing
the
difference
between
your
role
as
a
quasi-judicial
board
and
the
legislative
function
is.
Essentially,
you
are
applying
the
law
right,
so
you're
taking
the
Law
as
it's
written,
the
code
of
ordinances,
that's
been
put
in
place
for
you
and
you're,
applying
it
to
the
facts
and
evidence
that
are
presented
to
you
within
the
context
of
the
hearing
and
then
going
on
to
page
two.
B
Basically,
what
that
means
is
that
quasi-judicial
decisions
are
legal
decisions,
their
determinations
regarding
the
application
of
the
facts
and
circumstances
that
are
presented
to
you
and
the
criteria
found
in
your
code
of
ordinances
and
in
a
quasi-judicial
hearing.
Essentially
what
you're
doing
is
receiving
evidence
and
testimony
and
then
taking
that
evidence
and
testimony
and
looking
how
it
fits
into
the
criteria
and
the
code
of
ordinances,
as
it's
already
been
established
for
you,
and
so,
according
to
the
courts.
That
second
slide
down
slide.
B
Even
though
you're
the
historical
preservation
board
that
still
follows,
falls
under
that
larger
umbrella
of
land
use
decisions
right,
you
are
essentially
balancing
interests
and
you're
balancing
the
interests
of
the
city
and
maintaining
this
historic
district
of
the
city
and
the
individual
Property
Owners
rights
as
they
fit
within
the
context
of
that
overarching
code
of
ordinances
right
and
so,
what's
really
important
for
you
to
remember,
as
a
board
is
if
there
are
legal
challenges
or
items
that
come
up,
what
law
is
going
to
be
applied,
so
you
have
for
this
particular
board
the
applicant.
B
C
B
Quasi-Judicial
boards,
the
appeal
is
direct
to
the
Circuit
Court.
You
all
have
a
little
bit
of
that.
Stop
Gap
in
there
that's
built
into
your
code,
which
is
good
right,
because
it
gives
you
a
little
bit
more
flexibility
and
and
a
little
bit
more
insulation
right
that
you
have
that
stop
before
you
go
to
the
Circuit
Court
of
the
board
of
County
Commissioners,
and
so
on
that
slide
number
six,
those
three
items
that
are
listed
there.
Those
are
what
the
courts
review
when
they
are
reviewing
a
quasi-judicial
determination.
B
First,
they
look
at
whether
or
not
the
applicant
was
afforded
procedural
due
process.
They
look
at
whether
the
administrative
body
applied
the
correct
law
and
then
they
look
to
see
whether
or
not
the
findings
of
the
board
are
supported
by
competent,
substantial
evidence
and
so
I'm
going
to
talk
really
quickly
about
what
each
one
of
those
prongs
mean.
B
So
procedural
due
process.
Essentially
what
that
means
is
that
the
applicant
has
the
right
to
be
heard
at
a
reasonable
time
and
in
a
reasonable
manner
right,
so
that
they
have
the
right
to
be
present
at
the
hearing.
They
have
a
right
to
rebut
any
of
the
evidence
that's
presented.
They
have
the
right
to
question
Witnesses,
including
the
city's
Witnesses,
including
expert
witnesses
that
may
be
presented,
and
one
of
the
other
things
is
that
these
hearings
do
not
have
to
follow
the
formal
rules
rules
of
evidence.
However,
they
cannot.
B
Your
determinations
cannot
solely
be
based
on
hearsay
and
that's
really
one
of
the
biggest
ones
that
they
kind
of
look
at
is
how
much
are
you
basing
on
hearsay
and
how
much
are
you
basing,
on
actual
evidence,
that's
being
presented
to
you
and
we'll
get
into
that
a
little
bit
more
too.
Also,
I
would
note
that
your
your
rules,
a
procedure
that
were
adopted,
say
that,
yes,
you
can
consider
hearsay,
but
you
cannot
solely
base
your
determinations
of
this
board
on
hearsay
evidence
right.
B
Now
some
of
you
may
have
heard
all
of
this
before
you
may
have
heard
it
a
hundred
times
before
or
I
may
be
telling
you
something
brand
new
here,
but
what's
important
about
ex
parte
Communications
part
of
the
importance
of
following
procedural
due
process
is
making
sure
that
everything
that
you
are
considering
is
presented
under
oath
during
the
hearing
and
that
everything
that
you
are
basing
your
decision
on
in
some
way
shape
or
form
comes
out
in
the
hearing.
B
Your
average
citizen
may
not
actually
know
that
they
are
not
supposed
to
approach
you
as
a
board
member
to
discuss
their
application
or
to
just
to
discuss
what's
going
on,
because
that
constitutes
an
ex
parte
communication.
Now,
an
ex
partic
communication
by
itself
is
considered
prejudicial
unless
you
actually
make
that
disclosure.
So
a
lot
of
times
you'll
hear
the
attorney
ask
when
a
case
is
being
presented
as
two
questions
right.
The
first
one
is:
have
there
been
any
ex
parte
Communications
and
the
other
one
being?
Are
there
any
conflicts
of
interest
right?
B
The
ex
parte
Communications?
If
you
disclose
the
communication
on
the
record,
then
I
can
ask
you
ask
some
questions
that
can
be
Curative
in
nature
and
basically,
what
you
have
to
do
with
an
ex
partic
communication
is
certify
for
the
applicant
certify
for
the
record
that
you're
still
making
your
determination
on
the
evidence
that's
being
presented
here.
You
can
say:
yes,
we
had
this
conversation.
This
is
what
it
consisted
of,
but
I
can
still
make
a
fair
and
impartial
decision
based
on
the
evidence.
B
That's
going
to
be
presented
to
me
in
the
context
of
this
hearing
today.
All
right,
so
that's
the
important
thing
with
ex
parte
Communications
is
that
they
can
be
cured
okay,
but
you
have
to
put
it
on
the
record
if
you
don't
put
it
on
the
record
and
it
comes
up
after
the
decision
is
made.
Then
there's
really
not
a
lot.
I
can
do
to
to
fix
that
for
you,
but
as
long
as
you
make
the
disclosure
before
the
vote
comes
up,
you're
usually
going
to
be
pretty
good,
so
I
kind
of
talk
about
that.
B
The
other
thing
too,
that
I
like
to
point
out
to
boards.
If
you
look
at
that
slide,
that
says
no
ex
parte,
no
problem
on
the
very
bottom
of
that
slide.
It
says
that
when
you
public
publicly,
State
and
you'll
see
this
particularly
with
social
media.
This
comes
up
if
you
post
somewhere-
or
you
say
to
somebody
that
I've
already
made
my
mind
up
on
this
on
this
particular
application.
I
know
how
I'm
going
to
vote
on
that.
B
Well,
that
indicates
that
you're
not
making
a
fair
and
impartial
decision
based
on
the
evidence
and
testimony
that's
coming
before
you
for
your
your
consideration
within
the
context
of
that
quasi-judicial
hearing,
so
that
that's
why
you
know
you
shouldn't
be
making
those
statements.
You
need
to
make
sure
that,
when
you
walk
into
these
hearings,
you're
ready
to
receive
the
testimony
and
evidence
from
the
individuals
that
are
going
to
be
presenting
it
to
you
going
on
to
the
next
page
page.
Four.
B
Now
we're
looking
at
the
next
bullet
point
that
am
I,
applying
the
correct
law.
So
I
looked
through
the
materials
that
that
you
receive
based
on
what
I
saw
staff
takes
the
law
that
is
contained
in
the
code
and
basically
analyzes
it
for
you
right.
So
you
have
laid
out
in
front
of
you
when
you
receive
these
applications.
B
The
other
thing,
that's
important
to
remember
in
this
context
is
that
it
is
the
applicant
that
has
the
burden
of
proof,
so
the
applicant
has
to
bring
forward
their
application
and
say
we
believe
that
we
meet
your
criteria
and
here's.
Why?
B
Okay,
so
the
applicant
always
does
bear
the
burden
of
proof
to
show
that
they
they
are
meeting
the
the
established
criteria,
that's
contained
in
your
code
of
ordinances,
also
too,
so
that
last
prong
that
substantial
competent
evidence.
That's
that
middle
slide
on
page
four
slide:
number
11.,
there's
three
things
that
the
law
says
constitute
competent,
substantial
evidence
and
that's
findings
of
fact
right.
B
You,
you
will
make
some
findings
of
fact,
based
on
the
the
analysis
by
staff
and
the
information
that
the
applicant
presents
to
you,
and
then
you
have
expert
testimony
and
citizen
testimony,
and
these
are.
These
are
the
ones
that
can
get
a
little
bit
fuzzy
for
quasi-judicial
boards,
because
a
lot
of
people,
particularly
citizens,
want
to
come
up
and
they
want
to
give
their
opinion
on
something.
B
That
is
going
to
be
the
difference
between
opinions
versus
fact.
So
a
lot
of
people
will
come
up
and
say
they
don't
like
it.
They
don't
think
this
or
they
don't
think
that
that's
a
lot
different
than
saying
you
know,
I
see
traffic
every
day
at
this
particular
period
of
time.
That's
a
factual
representation
versus
an
opinion
of
of
this
is
going
to
create
more
traffic.
Well,
how
do
you
know
it's
going
to
create
more
traffic
right
now?
Obviously,
that's
not
something
your
particular
board.
B
That's
an
example
for
for
something
else
right,
because
your
particular
board
is
applying
something
a
little
bit
different,
but
that's
just
sort
of
an
example
of
fact,
testimony
versus
opinion
testimony,
and
sometimes
you
get
that
a
lot
of
times
too,
with
real
estate.
Unless
somebody
is
a
real
estate
agent,
they
have
that
specialized
knowledge.
They
can
back
up
their
expertise
in
that
particular
regard,
then
their
testimony
should
be
weighted.
The
same
as
any
other
citizen.
Testimony
and
and
that's
sort
of
a
good
mechanism
is
how
are
they
testifying?
B
Are
they
giving
their
facts
and
if
they
are
giving
opinions
on
something,
are
they
quote
quote
qualified
as
experts
to
give
that
opinion
right
and
then
moving
on
to
the
last
page
here
so
I?
The
only
reason
I
put
this
last
part
of
judicial
review
is
because,
if
it
makes
it
all
the
way
through,
this
is
how
important
due
process
and
procedural
due
process
is
in
these
proceedings.
B
So
for
your
particular
board.
If
they
get
to
the
point
where
the
district
court
of
appeals
is
looking
at,
this
decision,
they've
already
gone
through
the
Board
of
Commissioners
they've,
already
gone
through
the
circuit
court
and
then
they're
going
to
the
second
DCA,
and
the
second
DCA
will
still
look
to
see
if
you're
bored
at
that
initial
hearing
right,
because
their
appeal
is
limited
to
the
record
that
they
create
before
you
all
right.
That's
their
appeal
right
because
they
have
the
appeal
to
the
board
of
County
Commissioners.
B
They
do
have
that
opportunity,
then,
to
add
that
second
one,
but
with
most
quasi-judicial
boards
that
go
straight
to
the
Circuit
Court
right,
they
are
looking
at
what
they
presented
to
you.
Okay,
so
you
have
here
the
hearing
procedure.
This
is
how
you're
going
to
see
most
quasi-judicial
hearings
done
and
that
pretty
much
comports
with
the
rules
of
procedure
that
you
have
a
couple
things
that
are
kind
of
special
to
your
board.
That
I
saw
when
I
reviewed.
B
Both
your
code
and
your
rules
of
procedure
is
that
you
have
a
requirement
in
there
that
if
you
do
not
have
a
full
sitting
board,
you
have
to
ask
the
applicant
whether
or
not
they
want
to
continue
their
procedure
right,
because
they
do
have
the
right
to
continue
their
hearing
to
a
time
where
they
would
have
the
full
board
present
and-
and
that
becomes
particularly
important.
There
is
one
inconsistency
that
I
saw
in
your
rules
of
procedure
versus
your
code
of
ordinances,
and
the
code
of
ordinances
is
a
higher
law.
B
So
you
see
there
where
I
have
proponents
and
opponents
under
your
rules
of
procedure,
those
members
of
the
public
that
would
be
speaking,
they
are
given
four
minutes.
Your
rules
do
not
have
a
hard
and
fast
time
limit
for
staff
presentation
and
for
applicant
presentation
unless
it's
something
that
is
particularly
unruly
for
you
board
for
your
board,
like
you
have
people
that
want
to
come
in
and
present
for
an
hour
or
an
hour
and
a
half,
then
I
wouldn't
necessarily
worry
about
that.
B
What
you
want
to
make
sure
is
that
both
cities,
the
city
and
the
applicant-
have
equal
time
to
present
and
to
rebut
so
both
in
their
initial
presentation
and
then,
if
the
applicant
in
the
city
want
to
make
rebuttals
that
they'd
be
given
that
opportunity
to
have
at
least
equal
time.
But
the
proponents
and
opponents
who
are
neither
applicants
nor
representatives
of
the
city.
B
Those
individuals
would
all
be
given
four
minutes
and
then
last
but
not
least,
I
always
like
to
remember
boards
that
when
you
take
on
you
know
your
role
as
a
board
member,
you
sign
an
oath
for
the
clerk
and
that
oath
basically
says
that
you're
going
to
uphold
the
state
constitution,
the
Federal
Constitution
and
the
charter,
the
city
Charter
of
the
city
of
Tarpon
Springs.
And
it's
always
not
usually
a
good
day.
B
And
if
anybody
has
any
questions
for
me
or
any
concerns,
you're
more
than
welcome
to
ask
me
now
or
if
you
don't
feel
comfortable
asking
me
in
a
public
hearing.
I
do
have
my
contact
information
there
so
that
you
can
call
and
ask
me
questions
and
with
that
I
don't
know
if
anybody
has
any
but
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
if
there
are
any
on
the
material
I
presented.
Also
too.
If
your
next
meeting
is
in
December
or
January,
it's
a
high
likelihood
that
I'll
be
here
for
those
meetings.
A
B
So
the
the
legal
definition
of
hearsay
is
an
out-of-port
statement
offered
to
prove
the
matter.
That's
asserted
therein
right.
So
an
out-of-court
statement
can
be
anything.
It
can
be
a
neighbor
that
comes
in
and
says
I
heard,
XYZ
right,
I
heard
XYZ
in
the
speaker.
The
person
that
they
heard
it
from
is
not
here
to
say
on
their
own.
Also,
usually
writings
are
considered
hearsay
yeah
an
out-of-court
statement.
It
doesn't
matter.
B
B
C
A
B
It
can
come
out
in
discussion,
but
weight.
Would
the
the
best
example
of
weight?
Is
that
difference
between
expert
testimony
and
citizen
testimony
just
plain
citizen
testimony
and
an
expert
in
any
particular
subject
matter
or
somebody
who's
qualified
as
an
expert?
What
you
know
whether
it's
real
estate,
whether
it's
construction,
whether
it's
architecture
or
or
whatever,
they're
given
that
weight,
because
they
have
that
specialized
knowledge.
B
Yes,
you
can
give
more
weight
to
to
something
to
somebody
who's
going
to
be
more
affected
by
a
particular
application
versus
somebody
who's
not
going
to
be
as
affected.
You
know
somebody
that
lives
right
next
door
to
a
house
versus
somebody
that
lives
10
blocks
or
lives
in
another
state
or
you
know
whatever
the
case
may
be,
you
may
not
wait
their
objection
to
a
project
or
an
application
the
same
as
you
would
somebody
who's
going
to
have
to
live
with
it
every
day.
Okay,.
B
A
Okay,
we're
going
to
go
on
to
application
22
118,
that's
300,
Bay,
Street,
okay!
This
is
in
addition
to
a
port
staff,
would
do
it
I
have
to
give
the
presentation
so.
B
Before
staff
goes
into
their
presentation,
I
do
know
that
we
have
one
voting
conflict
and
also
that
the
applicant
is
not
here
to
represent
themselves,
and
that
is
because
they
thought
that
a
member
of
the
board
could
represent
them.
So
it's
important
for
you
all
to
remember
that
you
cannot
represent
applicants
before
you're
on
board
and
that
for
a
period
of
two
to
three
years,
I
I,
forget
and
I
do
forget
offhand.
If
it's
two
years
or
three
years,
you
cannot
come
back
before
this
body
to
represent
people
before
this
board.
B
A
B
Is
that
is
correct,
so
my
recommendation
to
make
sure
that
the
applicant
does
have
the
ability
to
that
meaningful
due
process
right
that
procedural
due
process
that
we
talked
about?
It
would
be
my
recommendation
that
the
individual,
who
has
the
conflict
cannot
vote,
but
the
remaining
members
of
the
board
I
would
recommend
that
you
vote
to
continue
this
to
next
month's
hearing,
to
give
the
applicant
the
opportunity
to
either
appear
in
person
or
to
find
somebody
that
can
represent
them
without
a
constitutional
violation.
Okay,.
C
B
Date,
when
is
the
next
hearing
date?
Do
you
have
that
handy
December?
You
could
go
ahead
and
do
it
to
December
5th,
because
then,
if
you
do
it
to
December
5th,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
re-advertised.
C
A
Okay,
okay,
okay,
you
and
we
have
a
vote.
Okay,
roll
call
vote,
please:
okay,.
A
A
Okay,
okay,
so
that's
been
postponed,
so
let's
go
on
to
the
next.
Is
there
any?
Is
there
any
I'm,
gonna
say
yeah?
No
thanks!
We
will
go
on
to
Steph.
Do
you
got
any
comments?
No.
A
A
A
Okay,
I
just
have
one
one
comment,
and
this
is
what
what
I
was
planning
to
talking
to
Phil
about
when
we
have
somebody
that
does
not
come
I
mean
we
have
a
representative
now,
okay,
but
we've
had
this
before
once
or
twice
where
we
don't
have
representative
okay,
we
could
probably
go
two
ways:
one
is
we
could
have
a
hearing
if
it's
usually
straightforward,
they
probably
don't
have
to
be
there.
But
if
there's
any
questions
with
it
started,
then
it's
going
to
have
to
be
approved
or
denied
am
I
right.
That.
B
Is
correct
and
well
once
you
once
you
start
the
hearing,
there
can
be
good
reasons
to
continue
a
hearing.
Sometimes
it
can
be
for
them
to
get
additional
information
or
something
like.
C
B
In
this
particular
situation,
because
we
knew
that
the
applicant
had
sent
a
representative,
but
it
was
just
somebody
that
couldn't
represent
them.
B
B
You
know,
then,
then,
whether
you
proceed
with
or
without
them,
it's
always
their
choice.
They
know
when
the
hearing
is
whether
or
not
they
come
or
do
not
come,
but
in
this
case,
because
they
they
did
want
to
be
represented
by
someone,
it's
important
to
give
them
that
opportunity.
Okay,.