►
Description
House Banking & Consumer Affairs Subcommittee House Hearing Room 3
B
A
Thank
you.
Do
we
have
any
members
that
have
any
personal
announcements
chairman
boyd.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
have
a
guest
with
me
today.
That's
shadowing
me
for
the
day
mr
aidan
mcdowell
in
the
back
there,
you
all
make
him
feel
welcome.
Yeah.
A
Okay
have
a
little
housekeeping
to
do.
Item
number
two
house
bill.
2111
has
been
rolled
to
the
final
calendar
item
number
four.
A
B
B
Chairman
current
law,
reference
fees
in
two
different
sections
specific
to
the
new
and
altered
installations,
these
references
conflict
with
one
another
and
making
the
language
a
little
ambiguous.
So
just
appreciate
your
support.
A
So
this
elevator
reel
I've
been
kind
of
going
up
and
down
on
this
bill
for
about
a
week
or
so
do
we
have
any
questions
on
the
bill?
A
A
A
Yeah
we're
going
to
roll
that
one
to
the
hill
chairman
hulsey,
I
think
he's
in
another
room
presenting
another
bill
and
that'll
move
us
on
to
adam.
The
next
item
is
an
item
number
five.
A
Okay,
the
next
item
item
number
five
by
chairman
boyd,
chairman
boyd
you're
recognized,
got
a
motion
and
a
second
chairman
boyd.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
house,
bill
1853
makes
various
changes
to
the
statute
regarding
e-verify
it
one
of
the
first
things
it
does.
It
lowers
the
threshold
from
employers
that
employ
50
employees
down
to
25..
C
It
adds
a
prohibition
against
rehiring
someone
that
is
a
illegal
immigrant,
where
it's
already
against
the
law
to
employ,
recruit
or
refer
for
a
fee.
It
adds
a
rehire
to
that
list
of
prohibited
activities.
It
also
in
the
event
that
an
employer
uses
the
e-verify
system,
and
there
is
a
failure
or
any
sort
of
indiscreptency
there.
It
provides
immunity
to
the
employer
in
cases
like
that.
C
It
also
provides
some
resources
to
employers
that
do
not
have
internet
access
or
employers
that
employ
less
than
50
employees,
that
the
department
of
labor
has
a
department
that
will
assist
with
that,
and
so
it
gives
them
some.
Some
assistance
with
that
and
another
thing
that
it
does.
It
codifies
a
federal
ruling,
so
just
to
give
you
a
little
background
on
that,
there
was
a.
C
There
was
a
case
where
a
employee
was
injured,
filed
a
worker's
compensation
claim,
was
getting
fixed
up
and
having
his
medical
bills
taken
care
of,
and
then
after
he
was
able
to
return
to
work.
It
was
discovered
that
he
had
had
fraudulently
obtained
employment
and
was
actually
an
illegal
immigrant.
So
the
employer
terminated
him.
C
He
then
filed
suit
in
west
virginia
in
a
federal
court
stating
that
it
was
wrongful
termination
because
it
was
after
a
workers,
compensation
claim,
and
so
the
federal
court
actually
ruled
that
the
employer
was
was
okay
in
terminating
them
because
they
were
illegal
and
that's
that
was
the
case
under
federal
law,
but
they
did
state
that
tennessee
law
was
sort
of
ambiguous
in
that,
and
so
what
this
does?
It
corrects
that
and
clarifies
that
if
you
terminate
someone
for
being
illegal,
that
you
cannot
have
any
sort
of
litigation
for
retaliatory
discharge
or
anything.
A
All
right,
thank
you.
Discussion
on
the
bill
representative
powell.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
philosophically
just
have
a
different
opinion
on
this
bill.
I
think
this
is
another
another
burden,
we're
placing
on
businesses-
and
you
know,
I
think,
lowering
this
threshold.
I
certainly
have
concerns
about
that.
I
know
we've
seen
different
pieces
of
legislation
over
the
years
come
to
this
committee,
but
you
know
I
just
I
think
again.
This
this
place
is
undue
burden
on
a
lot
of
different
businesses
in
tennessee,
and
I
guess
one
question
for
you
is
what
ultimately
is
going
to
be
the
outcome.
D
The
punishment
for
the
businesses
not
complying,
and
I
know
you
you
referenced
not
being
able
to
rehire,
but
but
what?
What
are
the
sort
of
punishments
that
exist
for
the
businesses,
not
necessarily
for
the
person
chairman.
A
A
A
D
A
D
C
D
You're
not
doing
anything
to
change
the
penalties,
you're,
just
lowering
the
number
for
the
threshold.
Is
that
correct
chairman
boyd,
that's
correct
again!
I
just
think
that
lowering
this
threshold
it's
going
to
put
more
burden
on
businesses,
and
it's
not
good
for
overall
state
of
our
economy
here
in
tennessee.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
any
other
discussion
on
the
bill
anywhere.
We've
got
a
question
on
the
bill
without
objection,
all
all
in
favor,
say:
aye
aye,
all
opposed
and
the
eyes
have
it.
The
bill
moves
on
house
bill,
1853
moves
on
to
full
commerce
and
item
number
six
house
bill
2110
by
chairman
boyd,
chairman
boyd,
you're
recognized.
B
C
Chairman
this
is
actually
a
fairly
simple
bill
brought
to
me
by
the
the
tennessee
bankers
and
so
in
a
lot
of
contracts,
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
mortgage
and
loan
contracts,
the
libor
rate
is
referenced
and
libor
is
actually
going
away
in
the
year
2023,
and
so
what
this
does
is
it.
It
provides
a
replacement
index
that
can
be
used.
It's
called
the
software
index,
it's
it's
it's
using.
It's,
not
international,
it's
american,
but
it
is
recognized.
C
A
On
the
bill,
question
on
the
bill,
all
in
favor
say
aye
all
opposed
the
eyes.
Have
it
house
bill
2110
moves
to
full
commerce.
A
The
next
one
up
is
house
bill
2310
by
representative
griffey,
representative
griffey.
You
are
recognized.
Thank
you,
mr.
B
A
Please
sure
without
objection
roll
two
weeks
thank.
A
A
Okay,
we're
going
to
take
about
a
five
minute
recess.
While
we
wait
on
chairman
hulsey
to
to
come
in,
I
think
he's
presenting
another
bill
on
another
committee,
so
we
told
him
we
would
wait
on
a
couple
of
minutes.
So
hang
on
hang
in
there.
Please.
A
A
E
This
does
have
a
an
amendment
on
it.
It's
zero.
F
A
I'm
sorry:
okay.
Okay,
yes,
that's
the
same
amendment
number
I
have
okay,
so
we
need
a
motion
and
a
second
on
the
amendment
and
a
second
okay,
where
you're
recognized
on
the
amendment.
Okay,.
E
This
amendment
says
that
if
you
employ
five
employees
or
less
this
bill
doesn't
apply
to
you.
Okay,
I
was
trying
to
make
it
more
palatable
for
those
of
you
who
have
concerns
over.
A
Okay,
and
do
we
have
any
objection
on
the
amendment
you
want
to
vote
on
the
amendment
to
add
it
onto
the
bill,
all
in
favor
say
aye
all
opposed
the
eyes.
Have
it
we're
back
on
the
bill
back
on
house
bill
1873
as
amended
chairman
hulsey
you're
recognizing
thank.
E
We
don't
like
to
meddle
in
business
and
business
decisions,
and-
and
I
understand
that-
and
I
agree
with
you
most
of
the
time
until
we
need
to-
and
if
you
recall
this
past
october,
we
came
down
here
and
had
a
special
session
and
we
passed
a
slew
of
bills
that
meddled
around
in
private
business
and
their
business
decisions,
because
we
felt
we
needed
to
well
here's
another
one
of
those
that
I
want
to
try
and
show
you
that
we
we
need
to
there's
been
a
dangerous
trend.
E
E
E
E
Where
were
you
at
when
you
bought
it
and
all
the
personal
information
that
goes
along
with
it
and
all
that
gets
harvested
and
sold
without
your
consent.
E
If
they
don't
think
right,
they
don't
act
right,
they
don't
behave,
they
simply
turn
their
account
off
and
they
cannot
buy
or
sell.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
in
china
right
now,
they
build
their
building
social
scores,
social
credit
scores,
and
it
determines
where
you
can
shop
what
you
can
buy,
whether
you
can
travel.
E
Actually,
even
as
I
present
this
bill,
there
are
some
banks
and
some
payment
providers
like
paypal
and
stripe
and
patreon.
They
have
closed
and
shut
down
accounts
of
individuals
who
identify
themselves
as
politically
conservative
again.
That
ought
to
give
you
a
window
of
where
we
will
go
when
we
have
all
digital
systems
and
no
cash.
E
E
E
E
E
E
E
E
A
Thank
you,
chairman
halsey
representative
powell,.
D
Thank
you
chairman
and
representative
holsiap.
You
know
I
disagreed
with
some
of
your
remarks.
I
agreed
with
others,
I
think
for
those
that
are
unbanked.
You
know
that's
unfortunate
when
you
do
everything
we
can.
You
know
I
disagree
with
you
on
some
level
on
on
digital
currencies.
I
think
that
you
know
there
are
some
some
really
exciting
and
new
technologies
out
there
that
actually
are
decentralized
and
would
provide
even
more
liberties
for
people
matter
of
fact,
some
of
the
things
I've
worked
on
in
past.
D
But
you
know
my
concern
is
that
ultimately,
the
the
freedom
is
in
the
consumer
and
that's
when
they
make
that
purchase.
If
they
don't
like
the
fact
that
the
business
will
not
take
that
form
of
payment,
then
I
feel
like
they
can
go,
take
their
cash
and
go,
spend
it
somewhere
else,
and
I
think
ultimately,
that's
the
ultimate
freedom
is
that
the
consumer
has
to
make
that
decision
to
spend
that
money,
and
so
I
think
that
this
is,
you
know
again
an
unnecessary
piece
of
legislation.
That's
going
to
place
a
burden
on
on
businesses.
D
I
worry
about.
You
know
people
now
having
to
keep
cash
and
they
might
be
in
in
neighborhoods
or
environments
where
they
feel
uncomfortable
having
cash.
I
know
there's
a
shortage
of
coins
in
this
in
this
country,
and
I
mean
I've
been
to
different
banks
and
they
literally
are
different
places.
D
They'll,
have
you
know
I've
seen
shortage
of
coins
of
certain
you
know
pennies
nickels,
I
mean
all
different
kinds
of
things
because
we
just
can't
keep
up,
and
so,
while
I
agree
with
some
of
what
you're
saying
you
know,
I
just
have
concerns
about
this,
because,
ultimately,
I
think
this
puts
an
undue
burden
on
businesses
and
again
I
go
back
to
the
fact
that,
in
my
opinion,
the
consumer
has
the
ultimate
choice:
it's,
whether
or
not
they
want
to
shop
in
that
merchant,
and
I
guess
one
question
for
you
is:
what
are
exactly
the
penalties
that
you
have?
E
40
of
branch
banks
have
disappeared
in
this
country
in
rural
areas,
so
some
of
these
people
have
no
other
means
than
cash
and
that's
what
they
use
and
I
don't
think
they
should
be
punished
for
it
and
I'm
not
against
technology.
Please
understand
me:
it
re
it's
remarkable
to
me.
I
don't
understand
at
all.
I
told
you
I
just
got
one
of
these
stupid
phones
that
you
have
had
for
a
long
time
and
I
despise
it
I'll.
Just
tell
you
I'm
not
against
technology.
E
D
And
and
one
other
thing,
and-
and
I
know
I
don't
know
specifics
on
this-
but
you
know
I
see
a
trend
and-
and
I
don't
even
know
if
this
is
allowed
I'll-
actually
look
into
this
after
this
committee,
but
I'll
go
into
some
businesses
and
I'll
actually
offer
you
a
discount
if
you
pay
cash
and
that's
always
been
curious
to
me
why
somebody
would
accept
a
discount
for
collecting
cash.
D
You
know
the
thought
has
has
has
come
into
my
mind
and
I
don't
want
to
say
that
this
is
always
a
nefarious
intent,
nefarious
intent.
But
you
know
there
are
advantages
as
we
sit
in
this
room
as
lawmakers
who
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
fair
about
the
collection
of
taxes
and
making
sure
that
those
revenues
are
paid
and
that
people
are
you
know
when
when
those
when
those
taxes
are
paid
and
collected,
and
we
we
hear
a
lot
about
how
that
is
done
in
the
state
on
this
committee.
D
We
all
we
know
that.
Well,
you
know,
I
think,
that's
one
advantage
to
having
that
system
in
place
is
that
we,
you
know
the
taxes
are
paid.
The
money
is
where
it's
supposed
to
be,
and
I
just
worry
that
you
know
I
guess,
there's
some
concerns
for
for
cash
businesses
and-
and
so
you
know-
and
I
appreciate
your
amendment-
I
do.
I
think
that
you
lowering
this.
This
number
is
a
good
step.
D
I
want
to
say
that,
so
I
commend
you
on
that
and-
and
I
agree
with
some
of
your
comments-
I
truly
do
you
know
I've.
Just
I
represented
mostly
urban
district
and
I've
never
heard
of
this,
for
my
constituents
being
an
issue,
so
I
can't
speak
to
those
rural
communities,
but
I
just
I
guess
overall
have
a
philosophical
issue
with
this
piece
of
legislation,
but
I-
but
I
appreciate
you,
know
your
your
explanation
and
you
know
your
willingness
to
answer
my
questions.
Thank
you.
A
A
I'm
gonna
go
out
a
session
just
for
a
second
and
turn
it
over
to
you.
Would
you
state
your
name,
please.
B
Hi
jamie
shanks
office
of
legal
services
just
for
clarity
purposes
under
this
bill
in
sub-section
b,
it
says
a
violation
of
this
section
is
a
prohibited
practice
under
47
18
104,
which
is
the
tennessee
consumer
protection
act.
So
you
would
be
looking
at
a
class
b
misdemeanor
for
a
violation
under
this
okay.
E
E
A
E
Answered
the
question
incorrectly:
here's
another
number:
I
want
to
give
you
while
we're
talking
about
this
78
of
americans.
78
percent
support
a
federal
law
that
requires
all
businesses
to
accept
cash
and,
interestingly
enough,
germans
use
cash
for
80
percent
of
all
transaction
and
most
merchants
and
restaurants
accept
cash
only
because,
in
their
words,
cash
is
printed
freedom.
That's
what
german
folks
say:
okay,.
D
Representative
powell,
sorry
one
follow-up
question,
given
that
you
know
I
guess
my
concern
there
is,
if
I'm,
if
I'm
a
business
and
I've,
got
those
kind
of
concerns
that
I
referenced
earlier
about
security
and
and
not
being
able
to
carry
proper,
you
know
change
more
or
less,
you
know
and
I'm
thinking
even
kind
of
small
pop-up,
mom
and
pop
you
know
little
businesses,
I
would
hate
to
think
of
you
know
people
losing
their
freedom,
because
they've
now
had
a
misdemeanor
because
they
simply
didn't
have
the
ability
to
have
cash.
D
So
I
just
wanted
the
committee
to
think
and
reflect
on
that.
I
think
this
is
a
step
in
the
wrong
direction
and
again
I
have
opposition
to
it.
But
again
I
appreciate
the
sponsoring
his
explanation.
A
G
G
The
dollar
being
the
world's
reserve
currency
brings
great
advantages
to
the
united
states
of
america,
and
we
as
a
people,
really
need
to
recognize
that
and
as
we
move
towards
a
crypto,
what?
If
the
world
settles
on
a
crypto
controlled
by
china,
or
something
like
that,
the
dollar
is
no
longer
the
world's
reserve
currency.
I
feel
like
this.
Crypto
is
sort
of
duping
us
into
going
in
that
direction,
and
people
are
really
not
thinking
about
that
and
recognizing
that
today
joe
biden
has
nominated
someone
for
the
federal
reserve
who
wants
to
control
credit.
G
How
credit
is
given
based
on
political
priorities
that
has
never
been
done
before.
It
should
not
be
done,
but
they
want
to
limit
the
availability
of
credit
based
on
their
political
priorities.
We
have
to
fight
things
like
this
and
I'll.
Tell
you.
I
can
very
well
see
people
in
my
district.
I
can
see
someone
going
to
a
dollar
general.
All
they
have
is
cash,
maybe
they
do
have
a
card,
but
they
just
don't
have
enough
money
on
that
card.
G
What
are
they
going
to
do?
How
how
can
they
really
get
to
another
store?
Maybe
they've
got
to
pick
their
kids
up
from
daycare,
maybe
they're
they
don't
have
a
vehicle
that
can
take
them.
Maybe
they
don't
have
a
vehicle
at
all.
I
think
this
is
a
very
important
bill.
I
think
you're
defending
the
rights
of
people,
I
think
you're
defending
the
united
states
of
america
and
I
really
thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill.
Thank
you.
E
As
one
added
thing
are
considering
this
bill
is
not
new
and
it's
not
alone
states
that
have
enacted
or
run
bills
that
do
the
very
same.
This
bill
does
is
arizona
alabama,
california,
connecticut
delaware,
florida,
georgia,
indiana,
maine,
maryland,
michigan,
milwaukee,
minnesota,
mississippi,
new
hampshire,
new
york,
north
dakota,
iowa
high
and
several
cities
have
made
ordinances
to
do
the
same
thing,
so
this
is
we're
not
alone
in
it.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
and
thank
you
representative
holsey,
for
I
can
sit
around
and
listen
to
you
or
ate
on
matters
that
I
find
it
to
be
provocative
in
a
manner
that
not
necessarily
is
it
causes
thought
it
provokes
thoughts
for,
for
whenever
you
bring
some
of
these
issues
to
us
and
and
particularly
on
when
you
talk
about
some
of
the
the
higher
plane,
some
of
the
20
000
feet,
and
I
think
that
you
bring
points
that
all
that
we
should
all
be
concerned
about.
F
F
Well,
when
we
impose
mandates,
we
are
also
taking
someone's
freedom
and
that,
in
this
case,
I'm
concerned
about
the
small
business
owner,
and
I
know
that
you
reduce
the
threshold
to
five
employees,
but
is
that
five
full-time
employees
is
that
five
part-time
employees?
What
if
we
I'm?
The
only
place
that
I
do
business
with
that
that
asks
for
cash
is
a
locally
owned,
dry
cleaners
and
typically
the
the
ladies
working.
F
The
counter
are
there
by
themselves
because
we've
got
employment
issues,
but
at
the
same
time
they
do
have
staff
that
comes
in
and
that
does
laundry
and
and
such,
and
so
they
very
well
could
have
10
to
12
part-time
employees
and
but
they
shouldn't
have
to
have
because
they've
got
either
one
or
two
persons
in
the
building
handling
a
cash
register
being
targeted
for
having
a
great
amount
of
cash
on
the
premises.
F
F
F
If
they
want
to
put
no
cash
on
their
building
well,
the
market
deals
with
them
because
the
people
with
cash
won't
be
there
and
they'll
lose
out
on
that
income,
and
they,
everybody
in
this
equation,
has
freedom
to
do
what
they
want
to
do
and
as
far
as
people
with
cash,
I
know,
and
I
grew
up
in
the
country
and
we
went
to
town
and
most
towns.
These
days
got
a
dollar
general
or
a
walmart,
and
you
can
buy.
You
can
take
your
cash
if
you
want
to.
F
If
you
feel
like
you're
you're
impugned
by
someone
not
taking
cash,
you
can
buy
a
cash
card
that
converts
your
currency
into
a
digital
format.
That's
not
connected
to
the
internet
that
you
haven't.
A
central
bank
doesn't
doesn't
control,
and
so
I
don't
see
this
as
being
a
convenience
factor
to
really
negatively
impact
the
citizens
of
the
state.
I'm
just
concerned
about
the
fact
that
we're
trying
to
tell
businesses
one
more
time
about
how
to
do
their
business
and
it's
it's
a
big
concern
for
me.
F
I
think
we
should
we
should
let
people
operate
their
companies
and
their
business.
The
way
that
they
see
fit
and
then
the
the
question
of
number
of
employees
is
something
that
I
think
is
can
be
debated
with
regards
to
that.
But
your
your
overall
overarching
points
that
you
make,
I
I
think,
are
very
valid.
I
think
that
it
is
of
concern.
I
think,
some
of
the
things
that
we've
got
going
on.
E
Chairman
house,
thank
you
and
I
always
enjoy
discussions
with
you
31
these
numbers
here
and
I
don't
know
what
it
is
today,
but
these
because
these
numbers
two
years
ago,
but
31
percent
of
people
who
businesses
across
the
country
refuse
cash.
E
That
means
69
do
take
cash,
so
your
your
cleaners
probably
already
does
take
take
cash
to
start
with,
so
this
doesn't
affect
them
and
again
we
we
don't
stick
our
nose
in
businesses
business
until
we
think
we
have
to
and
and
then
we
do-
and
this
is
one
of
those
things
that
I
think
that
I
think
we
should
and
it's
not
an
imposition
something
we've
been
using
for
years.
So
thank
you.
A
Okay,
I
don't
do
we
have
any
other
discussion
on
the
bill.
Okay,
then,
do
we,
I
guess
we're
going
to
call
a
question
on
the
bill.
All
in
favor
of
house
bill
1873
by
chairman
hulsey,
say
aye
all
opposed.
Okay,
it
looks
like
we're
gonna
have
I
need
a
roll
call
vote.
Madam
clerk,
will
you
call
the
roll.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
chairman
halsey.
The
bill
fails,
and
now
do
we
have
any
other
announcements
or
further
business
coming
before
the
committee
any
at
all.
If
not,
we
are
adjourned.