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From YouTube: Audit Committee - October 27, 2017 - Part 1 of 2
Description
Audit Committee, meeting 10, October 27, 2017 - Part 1 of 2
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=11952
Part 2 of 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FlM13MPr5I#t=9m33s
Meeting Navigation:
0:03:38 - Call to order
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
A
Do
it's
being
held
for
a
speaker,
a
you,
ten
point
to
a
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards,
divisions,
management
of
business
licenses,
part
one
license
issuance
inspection
and
complaint
investigation
functions.
This
is
being
held,
will
be
held
in
my
name
for
a
presentation
and
in
fact
we
have
presentations
on
the
subsequent
two
items
can
supply
CEO?
Did
you
with.
C
A
C
A
10.3,
this
is
a
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards.
Divisions,
management
of
business
licenses,
part
two
licensed
holistic,
centers.
Again,
a
presentation
on
that
item:
au,
10.4,
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards,
divisions,
management
of
business
licenses,
part
three
eating
establishments
and
nightclubs
that
is
held
in
my
name
as
there
is
a
presentation,
au,
10.5,
toronto
building,
division
conditional
permits
that
is
being
held
for
a
presentation
in
my
name.
A
A
Au
10.28
obtaining
the
best
value
through
the
use
of
vendor
rosters.
Any
interesting
polled
with
somebody
like
to
would
somebody
like
to
move
that
please
councillor,
Carmichael
grab
all
those
in
favor
of
adopting
the
recommendations
that
is
carried
got
one
item
down:
au
10.9,
improving
the
effectiveness
of
the
basement,
flooding
protection
subsidy
program?
Are
there
any
holds
for
that
great
with
somebody
like
to
move
that
please
councillor
Ford,
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried
it.
Au,
10.10,
Auditor,
General's,
observations
on
the
quantity
of
product
realized
from
the
city's
single
stream
recycling
blue
bin
program.
A
A
A
A
A
There
any
desires
to
hold
seeing
none.
Would
somebody
like
to
move
that
counsel
early,
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried
a
you
10.14
Auditor
General's
2017,
consolidated
status
report
on
follow-up
of
outstanding
audit
recommendations
or
any
questions
on
that
item.
Seeing
none
would
somebody
like
to
move
the
recommendations.
Councillor
Carmichael
grab
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried.
A
Au
10.15
process
to
obtain
external
audit
services
2018
to
2022
inclusive
there
any
desires
for
a
hold
on
that.
Seeing
none
would
somebody
like
to
move
the
receipt
for
information
counsel
early,
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried
au,
10.16,
2016,
audited,
financial
statements
of
business
improvement
areas
report
number
two
any
desires
for
a
hold.
Seeing
none.
Would
somebody
like
to
move
the
recommendations?
Councillor
Lee,
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried
a
you
10.17
financial
statements
for
the
year
ended
December,
31st,
2016
agencies
and
corporations.
A
Are
there
any
holds
on
any
of
the
sub
items?
Councillor
Lee,
okay,
I
think
we
have
to
go
through
these
one
by
one,
don't
so,
if
there's
no
holds,
we
can
take
them
as
a
package.
Absolutely
did
you
want
to
move
the
the
recommendations?
Thank
You
councillor,
Lee,
all
those
in
favor
and
those
are
all
carried
a
you
10.19
review
of
the
toronto
trenton
party,
a.
A
You
ten-point
18
city
of
toronto
audit
plan
for
the
year
ending
December
31st
2017.
This
is
a
receipt
for
information.
Are
there
any
questions
on
this?
Would
somebody
like
to
move
receipt
councillor
Matt
Lowe,
all
those
in
favor,
that's
carried
if
a
you
10.19
review
of
Toronto
Transit,
Commission,
Accounts,
Payable
functions,
improving
invoice,
verification
and
vendor
account
management.
Are
there
any
counselor
Ford
hold
that.
A
A
E
Just
want
to
say
about
me
speaking
at
this
meeting.
This
shall
not
be
deemed
to
be
in
any
way
my
consent.
Express
are
implied
in
doing
so
as
fraud,
god
bless
her
Majesty.
The
Queen
and
long
live
her
Majesty,
the
Queen
now
just
in
case
councillor
Michael
Ford
over
here
is
chosen
as
the
vice
chair
of
the
Audit
Committee
I
want
him
to
take
notice,
then
of
meritorious
code
of
conduct.
E
He
came
up
with
when
he
was
running
against
his
uncle
rob
especially
number
nine
of
it,
which
it
says
I
will
introduce
real
penalties
for
elected
officials
and
public
servants
who
abuse
the
privileges,
responsibilities
and
trust
that
accompany
public
service.
We
work
for
Torontonians,
not
the
other
way
around,
and
now
anyone
here
actually
know
what
those
real
penalties
were
that
merit
or
EK
MUP
with,
because
he
hasn't
actually
got
around
to
doing
that.
Yet.
E
So
it's
been
one
year
two
year,
three
years
like
it's
been
three
years
so
if
councillor
for
year
has
chosen
his
vice
chair
and
I,
have
a
feeling
that
he
won't
mind
doing
this.
Considering
the
intense
scrutiny
his
uncle
Rob
faced
here
as
mayor
on
a
daily
basis,
holding
meritorious
feet
to
the
fire
and
finally
getting
around
to
resolving
number
nine
of
his
code
of
conduct,
you
know
before
the
next
election
and
less
than
a
year,
Mara
Tory
had
introduced
these
real
penalties.
E
So
the
last
time
I
was
here
about
this
I
think
I
referred
to
the
counselor
from
my
area,
counselor
Kristen
Carmichael
grabbed
here
as
the
libertarian
counselor
for
the
City
of
Toronto
and
just
in
case
anyone's
wondering
I'm
here
to
demand
that
counselor
Greb
be
made.
The
vice
chair
of
the
Audit
Committee
here
in
I'd,
say
about
three
minutes:
I
just
wanted
to
go
over
some
of
the
libertarian
stances
she
has
taken
since
becoming
a
counselor
here
at
the
City
of
Toronto,
and
why?
E
Because
of
this
common-sense
approach
of
hers
mindset
why
she
would
best
serve
the
people
of
Toronto
as
being
the
next
vice-chair
here
number
one.
Basically,
who
are
we
to
tell
these
people
kids
in
this
place
that
they
can't
play
a
street
ball
hockey
and
my
favorite
I'm
not
aware
of
any
detrimental
effects
from
any
secondhand
energy
drink
drinking?
So
who
are
we
to
tell
these
people
that
they
can't
drink
energy
drinks?
Three?
E
E
amant
to
tell
Derek
that
his
dad
can't
use
the
remittance
that
we
provide
to
discharge
any
public
debt
from
the
City
of
Toronto
with
well.
That
was
Robert's.
Ian
he's
gone
now
by
the
way
at
the
police
board.
Yesterday,
councillor
Lee
could
probably
vote
for
me
just
so
you
all
know:
I
did
a
Freedom
of
Information
request
and
it
turned
out
signed
here
by
you.
Lee
walk
is
at
the
bottom
here.
Well,
Rob
Rossini
never
took
his
subscribe
dose
to
the
Queen
pursuant
to
section
4.
E
The
public
officers
act
isn't
that
something
want
to
share
that
with
everybody,
so
yeah
I
was
kind
of
stunned
that
she
wasn't
chosen
the
last
time.
I
was
here,
though,
so
I
guess,
I
just
didn't
know
the
criteria
or
what
goes
into
being
chosen
for
vice
chair
of
the
Audit
Committee.
So
I
was
wondering
if
you
guys
could
just
fill
me
on
what
what
exactly
are
the
criteria
that
goes
into
choosing
someone
here
for
a
vice
chair
for
the
Audit
Committee.
E
You
know
I
come
to
think
of
it.
You
mentioned
that
to
me
in
March
and
it's
I've
actually
seen
on
the
city
of
Toronto's
website,
where
it
says
that
you,
council
members,
can
ask
questions
of
us,
but
I
have
never
seen
on
the
city
of
Toronto's
website
any
record
document
where
it
says
we
can't
ask
you
people
question
councillor
holiday,
you
seem
like
a
fair,
impartial
upstanding
guy.
E
If
I
did
a
Freedom
of
Information
request
with
the
City
Clerk's
office
to
find
out
just
where
it
says
that
would
that
be
fair
and
if
I
came
here
next
time
and
said
that,
with
the
result
that
you
lock
was
Julie,
walk
has
found
that
nowhere
does
it
say
that,
would
it
be
fair
to
say
that
we
could
ask
questions
of
you.
People
in
the
future.
E
A
A
Alright
I
guess
we
will
I
will
now
call
for
nominations.
Pardon
me,
I
think,
just
on
a
point
of
privilege,
we're
gonna
vary
the
process
just
a
little
bit.
I
wanted
to
make
a
quick
statement
to
thank
council
early
for
services,
Vice
Chair
and
for
service
as
chair
previous,
and
for
the
teaching
and
mentorship
you,
you
offered
this
new
counselor
in
able
to
you
know
to
acquit
me
to
fulfill
this
role
and
I
want
to
say
I.
A
F
On
behalf
of
my
entire
office,
I
sincerely
wish
to
thank
you
for
all
of
the
mentorship.
Your
wisdom,
I
didn't,
actually
know
anybody
when
I
arrived
in
Toronto
and
you
were
one
of
the
first
people
that
I've
met
and
your
leadership
and
wisdom
has
been
tremendous
and
we
all
look
up
to
you.
So
thank
you
and
we
know
where
you
are.
If
we
have
a
question,
I
do.
A
I'm
advised
by
the
clerk
that
we
are
now
on
to
item
10.2,
a
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standard
divisions,
management
of
business
licenses
part
one
license
issuance
inspection
and
complaint
investigation
functions
and,
as
we
discussed
in
the
meeting
you're
going
to
bind
that,
together
with
I,
will
read
out
the
title
here.
A
you
10.3,
a
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards,
divisions,
management
of
business
licenses,
part
two
licensed
holistic,
centers
and
a
you
10.4,
a
review
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards,
divisions,
management
of
business
licenses,
part
three
eating
establishments
and
nightclubs.
A
A
G
Everyone
hear
me
all
right,
my
light
sauce
just
on
point
of
order,
I
just
like
to
practice.
My
comment
with
you
know
the
honor
general
does
a
phenomenal
job
and
her
team.
However,
it
is
very
difficult
to
be
reviewing
each
and
then
when
we
received
the
Supplemental
materials
two
days
before
committee,
so
I
just
like
to
make
staff
cognizant
that
it's
a
little
difficult
to
prepare
for
on
it
with
such
a
short
timeline.
Thank.
A
F
F
Municipal
licensing
is
an
area
that
touches
all
of
our
lives
and
it's
an
area
that
many
people
are
very
passionate
about
and
we
have
performed
our
audit
and
we
have
three
reports,
the
first
one
being
on
really
the
overall
process.
The
second
one
related
to
a
couple
of
examples
which
helped
to
highlight
areas
for
improvement,
but
at
the
higher
level
it
is
a
very
complex
area.
F
Miss
cook
and
her
team
have
a
number
of
initiatives
underway.
Quite
a
few
and
I'm
hoping
that
this
audit
allows
the
opportunity
just
to
take
a
step
back
and
to
look
at
the
process
from
end
to
end
to
see
if
we
can
have
an
integrator,
more
integrative
approach,
there's
things
that
are
working
well
and
there's
things
that
need
improvement
and
it's
not
going
to
be
a
simple
fix,
and
it's
not
going
to
be
overnight.
F
F
Our
objective
was
to
to
assess
the
effectiveness
and
the
efficiency
of
the
sensing
functions,
and
so
we
took
the
last
two
years
of
licensing
data
and,
to
give
you
a
perspective,
there's
87,000
licenses
issued
or
renewed
in
2016
and
28
point.
Nine
million
comes
from
really
licensing
fees.
So
it's
a
quite
a
large
area,
it's
quite
a
big
responsibility
and
then.
F
We
our
review,
conducted
it
in
three
areas.
As
I
mentioned,
we
have
a
systemic
overview.
We
look
at
the
hot
tire
system,
there's
opportunities
for
improvement,
there's
opportunities
for
to
look
at
transformation
from
a
holistic
level,
there's
areas
that
are
being
transformed,
but
we
wanted
to
take
a
step
back
and
really
make
sure
everything
is
synchronized.
F
Part
two
relates
to
the
enforcement
activities
related
to
holistic,
centers
and
part.
Three
relates
to
the
operating
of
potentially
unlicensed
nightclubs,
part
two
and
part
three.
They
can
all
be
fixed
with.
We
fix
part
one
so
but
they're
just
examples
to
highlight
individual
areas
that
were
identified
by
MLS
themselves,
also
by
the
licensing
committee
as
areas
that
needed
to
be
improved
our
added
value.
Is
we
really
get
in
and
tried
to
dissect
where
some
of
the
problem
areas
were
and
that
we
hope
to
help
the
MLS
team?
F
Analyzing,
our
team,
looking
at
making
sure
that
the
processing
of
the
applications
is
correct
and
sometimes
there's
clearance
inspections
that
have
to
happen
even
before
somebody
is
licensed
and
they
do
a
great
job
there
and
we
did
find
that
the
staff
were
generally
well
versed
in
the
bylaw
requirements
and
the
staff
on
the
ground
were
also
so
that's
a
great
starting
platform
and
now
with
rest
of
the
system.
That's
what
we'll
talk
about
in
this
presentation?
Jane,
you
may
add
anything
you
would
like.
If
you
have
anything
you'd
like
that.
F
So
part,
one
issuing
license
license
issuing
inspection
and
complaint
investigation
functions.
We
did
find
businesses
operating
without
a
valid
license,
and
this
is
not
new
for
MLS.
They
understand
and
they
have
identified
actually
there's
about
nine
hundred
businesses
that
they
had
identified
that
are
operating
without
a
license
and
about
fifty
percent
of
those
we
have
any
of
those
stats
in
our
in
our
audit
report.
F
Many
of
those
they
were
able
to
get
licensed,
but
the
challenge
here
is
that
the
businesses
can
continue
to
operate
and
we
asked
our
recommendation
was
to
really
review
the
enforcement
framework
to
see
if
there
are
any
other
tools
that
could
be
leveraged
to
deal
with
businesses
that
are
operating
and
are
unlicensed.
If
a
business
is
licensed
and
there's
something
that
happens,
there's
measures
you
can
take
them
to
try,
for
you
know
they're
things
you
can
do.
It
might
be
a
little
more
challenging
when
you're
dealing
with
an
unlicensed
business.
F
So
our
theme
today
is
not
to
solve
the
issue
at
the
table,
but
to
allow
the
city
to
take
it
away
and
see
what
they
can
do
with
their
expertise
to
come
up
with
more
and
better
enforcement
measures,
proactive
inspection.
This
is
there's
two
types
of
inspection.
One
is
proactively
going
out.
Just
to
you
know,
verify
that
compliance
is
happening
and
then
there's
some
inspections
that
are
a
result
of
a
complaint
and
in
the
proactive
inspection
we
found
that
they
were
being
done,
but
the
information
around
that
was
more,
it
could
be
improved.
F
We
noticed,
for
example,
30
percent
of
the
establishments
had
no
inspections
for
three
years
or
more,
and
why
that's
important?
Is
it
to
take
a
risk-based
approach
and
understanding
what
coverage
you
have
I
guess
from
another
perspective
we
want
to.
We
do
a
risk-based
approach.
We
understand
how
much
effort
we
have
to
put
in
different
areas,
and
it
might
be
okay
to
have
thirty
percent
of
the
establishments,
the
eating
establishments,
food
stores
and
hair
salons,
not
having
an
inspection.
But
it's
really
to
use
the
information
that
you
have
to
identify
the
coverage.
F
Around
the
investigation
requests,
what
we
noticed
was
that
same
similar
kind
of
finding.
Will
you
notice
that
there's
hours
spent
on
investigations-
and
you
know
we-
you
can't
always
predict
the
amount
of
hours
that
something's
going
to
take.
We
understand
that,
but
in
order
to
plan
for
resources,
you
have
it's
important
to
understand
the
kinds
of
things
that
will
come
up
and
where
the
time
is
being
spent-
and
this
is
an
opportunity
to
track
and
review
and
monitor
efficiency
of
staff
handling
complaints.
They
do
us.
F
Mls
has
KPIs,
they
have
performance
measures
that
they
are
trying
to
meet,
I,
think
two-day
turnaround
for
inspections,
response
and
then
within
seven
days
of
closure,
making
sure
the
report
gets
through.
But
the
challenge
is
the
tracking
of
that
is
not
there
and
I
understand
that
they're
working
on
some
management
information
systems,
but
without
an
important
to
coordinate
that
with
the
work
from
this
overall
audit
to
make
sure
the
right
questions
are
being
answered.
F
So
this
isn't
a
criticism,
but
we,
but
it's
an
observation
and
more
information
is
needed
to
be
able
to
verify
that
the
complaints
are
being
addressed
effectively.
An
average
takes
53
days
to
close
an
inspection
request,
and
you
know
it
so
it's
a
while,
but
it
might
be
it's
it's
it's
inspected
but
not
closed
on
paper.
So
there's
there's
maybe
many
reasons,
and
it's
really
for
MLS
to
take
away
and
provide
better
information
for
senior
management.
F
We
also
noted
that
in
in
different
areas
of
the
city,
there's
Central,
East
and
West,
and
the
central
area
had
about
2,200
investigation
requests
and
a
year
and
there's
13
staff
where
other
areas
had
you
know
might
may
feel
like
fewer
investigation
requests,
and
they
had.
You
know
almost
an
equal
amount
of
staff.
So
there's
things
to
rationalize
there,
James
like
to
so
this
slide.
I
think
is,
for
me,
probably
the
most
important
theme
across
all
of
these
reports.
F
In
order
for
MLS
to
be
able
to
operate
efficiently
and
effectively,
they
need
to
have
clear,
specific,
enforceable
bylaws.
This
comes
from
actually
the
audit
of
the
bondsman
for
BC
former
Queen's
Counsel,
a
head
of
Justice
services
in
BC.
He
has
a
best
practice
report
that
I
I
think
that
MLS
and
and
other
related
divisions
will
be
leveraging
around
best
practices
around
by
law
enforcement.
F
The
ability
to
enforce
is
important.
What
we
found
was
the
law
wasn't
clear,
so
we
could
understand
some
of
the
challenges
that
were
being
faced
by
the
MLS
division,
so
they're
trying
to
enforce
something
that
might
not
be
as
clear
and
the
last
areas
investigation
strategy,
understanding,
especially
for
complex
matters,
how
long
it
could
take
the
nature
of
the
evidence
that
would
be
required
is
important.
F
Every
officer
has
the
to
decide
on
their
investigation
approach,
but
generally
there
are
common
things
that
should
be
looked
for.
They'll
start
with
a
bylaw
understanding
the
bylaw
understanding
the
tests,
understanding
the
type
of
evidence
they
need
and
when
they
go
out,
they
can
make
it
a
discretion
to
do
more
or
less,
but
that
helps
to
guide
their
approach
to
make
sure
that
they
get
what
they
need
for
prosecution
and
for
to
make
sure
fairness
is
applied
across
the
board.
F
That's
so,
overall
in
the
first
area.
What
we're
recommending
actually
is
based
on
some
of
this
and
other
things
we
saw.
For
example,
there
there's
an
app
that's
available
that
the
officers
were
trying
to
use
and
we
found
on
average
over
ten
weeks
there's
about
thirty
eight
times
officers
tried
to
get
into
the
app
and
it
wasn't
working
as
well,
and
then
MLS
already
knows
that
what
we're
recommending
is
some
technological
solutions,
but
technical
are
logical
solutions
and
some
more
staff
on
the
ground
won't
fix
some
of
these
upfront
parts.
F
H
So
this
table
gives
you
a
very
high-level
comparison
of
the
differences
between
a
holistic,
a
licensed
holistic
Center
and
a
licensure
Polliwog
parlor,
so
holistic
services.
The
definitions
is
fair
for
therapeutic
and
wellness
purposes,
whereas
body
rough
surfaces
is
includes
so
many
things
and
touching
stimulating
and
by
means
of,
like
a
body,
there
are
currently
410
licensed
holistic
sentence.
Death
no
cap,
whereas
for
body
rock
palates
city
has
a
cap
only
25
a
licenses.
The
licensing
fees
are
also
very
different.
H
So
holy
sixth
sense
is
about
200
$300
for
initial
license
fee,
whereas
a
Polliwog
palace
is
13,000
for
initials
and
then
12,000,
and
you
renew
four
people
worker
who,
at
the
body
rock
pallets,
they
have
to
undergo
rigorous
health
examinations
and
to
make
sure
they're
free
from
communicable
diseases
and
medically
fit
to
work
where's
that
this
requirement
is
not
applicable
for
the
holistic
SAR
license.
However,
holistic
petitioners
have
to
emphasize.
They
are
licensed
everybody
who
work
at
a
holistic
center,
they
are
called
there.
They
have
to
be
licensed
by
MOS.
H
State
holds
a
holistic
petition
their
license
and
there
are
about
over
just
over
two
thousand
of
them.
Right
now
have
this
holistic
petition
their
license.
One
of
the
difference
we
noticed
in
the
back
of
course,
we're
not
gonna
disagree
differences.
One
of
the
disciplines
we
knows
in
the
bylaw
is
for
holistic
center.
The
treatment
room
the
door
to
the
treatment
room.
They
can
lock
it
for
privacy
reasons
right
if
they
were
working
on
our
clients
was
in
a
bodywork
parlor
place.
H
So
what
we
found
was
a
number
of
the
licensed
holistic
centers
appear
to
be
offering
unauthorized
surfaces
so
off
the
410
license
our
holistic
centers.
We
did
a
website
search
and
we
match
the
results
to
the
MLS
license
to
make
sure
they're
licensed
as
holistic
center.
We
found
107
of
them
appear
to
be
offering
unauthorized
surfaces.
H
2005
2016,
and
there
were
quite
a
few
charges
like
Oh
over,
like
total
117
charges
for
various
are
by
law
in
violation
and
one
Center
was
charged
for
operating
as
an
unlicensed
body,
but
Paula
and
the
rest
of
the
charges
will
be
like
remaining
open
after
our
they're
supposed
to
be
closed
by
9:00
and
also
permitting
unlicensed
partition
errs
to
work
in
the
center's.
So,
at
the
end
of
our
audit,
we
had
a
request.
We
MOS
provided
us
a
list
of
over
100
holistic
centers
that
they
bring
up
problematic
just.
F
F
What
we're
suggesting
is
that
well
from
what
we've
seen
the
services
are
unauthorized
services,
and
it
is
an
area
that
where,
if
a
bylaw
officer
is
trying
to
enforce
or
if
the
legal
is
trying
to
prosecute,
it's
challenging
and
being
clear
on
what
the
city
wants
in
this
area
and
they
in
the
direction
and
the
the
tests
is
really
important
and
it's
a
policy
area
that
would
take
time
to
make
sure
that
you
develop.
But
it's
an
important
area.
H
As
I
mentioned
before,
there
are
all
the
holistic
petitioners
they
have
to
be
licensed.
The
our
bylaw
also
asks
these
holistic
petitioners
to
be
a
member
of
the
city
of
proof.
Pha
PHA
is
professional,
holistic
associations.
So
these
there
are
right
now
37
city
of
proof,
pH
aides.
They
are
in
the
bylaw
they
attach
of
that.
The
names
are
there,
so
this
pH
8
requirement
was
added
to
the
bylaw
in
2005,
following
staff,
with
a
staff
report
and
the
staff
recommendations.
H
The
intent
of
these
city
pit
setting
at
this
PHA
was
for
the
city
to
rely
on
these
accredited
ph8
to
govern
their
members.
Those
those
will
be
the
licensed
holistic
petitioners
to
ensure
integrity
and
honesty
of
their
services.
So
this
speech
8.
They
also
they
charge
their
members,
our
membership
fee.
It
can
range
from
over
$1,000
for
initial
membership
per
person
and
to
up
to
like
$500
per
year.
So
by
our
estimate,
they
could
collect
up
to
over
$250,000
from
initial
membership
fee
or
and
also
$100,000
per
year
from
renewal
fee.
So.
F
At
a
high
level,
we
require
practitioners
to
to
register
with
these
associations,
and
we've
outlined
in
a
table
a
great
deal
of
concerns.
We
have
with
that.
So
it's
some.
We
recommend
the
city
take
that
away
and
really
that
area
and
see
if
those
associations
are
serving
the
needs
that
we
need
as
the
city
to
make
sure
this
area
is
operates
appropriately.
So.
H
I,
just
gonna
give
a
little
bit
more
detail
following
Auditor
General's
comments.
So,
although
they're
as
I
said
there
are
37
approved
city
approved
PHA,
but
92%
of
all
the
licensed
petitioners
belong
to
ten,
a
PHA
large
PHA.
So
we
undertook
a
review
of
these
ten
PHA.
What
we
found
was
what
appear
on
paper
is
very
different
from
what
actually
happened
most
some
of
them.
They
don't
have
a
commercial
address.
They
work
out
of
like
a
residential
address.
They
work
out
of
an
abandoned
building
or
a
cottage
or
Pio
parks.
H
More
concerning
we
found
one
of
the
PHA
director
was
actually
convicted
for
an
assault
on
the
criminal
code
and
also
convicted
for
operating
an
unlicensed
body.
Repeller
two
other
the
PHA
director
hoods
were
also
convicted
for
operating
and
licensed
body
repellers.
Another
director
was
being
prosecuted
for
illegally
practicing
massage
therapy.
H
So
we
believe
the
problem
really
is
with
the
by
law.
The
by
law
does
not
give
MLS
the
puppet
food
to
and
forced
to
regulate,
PHA.
So
MLS
has
no
authority
to
conduct
any
background
checks
on
the
PHA
directors
when
they
are
poof
initial
they're
doing
the
initial
approval
in
our
will.
Its
initial
approval
is
more
or
less
like
a
paper
exercise
and
looking
at
all
the
paper
they
supply,
and
they
have
the
policy
and
procedures.
H
Also,
there's
no
pile
of
provisions
to
allow
MLS
to
conduct
inspection
of
these
PHA
after
they
approve
them,
so
they
can
never
go
in
to
check
and
also
even
to
us,
it's
even
worse.
It's
even
when
P
MOS
found
certain
PHA
to
be
problematic
and
in
our
discussion
with
them
they
do
a
knowledge
they
they
are
where
some
PHA
are
problematic.
There
is
no
by
law
provision
to
allow
mas
to
revoke
their
approval
status
or
to
recognize
that
the
members
belongs
to
these
are
problematic
PHA.
H
H
In
2013
and
2014
MLS
conducted
a
review
of
this
whole
area
and
consultation
with
PHA
operators,
and
subsequently
they
released
a
public
presentation
in
the
presentation
they.
They
also
indicate
that
majority
of
the
individual
who
will
issue
a
holistic
center
or
holistic
petitioner
license
offering
body
rough
surfaces,
so
a
staff
with
purpose
to
be
submitted
back
to
licensing
and
Standards
Committee
on
how
to
better
manage
the
whole
set
of
PHA.
H
Today,
a
report
has
not
been
submitted,
so
we
really
what
we
recommend
is
to
we,
as
we
assess
the
merit
and
practicality
of
the
city,
relying
on
PHAs
governing
governing
bodies
and
to
undertake
a
comprehensive
review
of
the
existing
bylaw
and
legislative
framework
governing
this
whole
area
and
I.
Think
MOS
was
in
agreement.
F
So
part
three
relates
to
licensing
licensed
eating
establishments
that
may
potentially
be
operating
as
unlicensed
nightclubs.
One
of
the
things
that
the
Ombudsman
for
British
Columbia
brought
out
in
his
bylaw
breaths
practices
is
that
things
evolved
and
when
industries
evolved,
bylaws
need
to
evolve
with
it,
and
this
is
an
area
where
the
industry
seems
to
have
evolved
and
demographics
have
evolved.
So
it's
important
to
take
a
look
at
this.
F
F
So,
if
we
look
at
the
differences
between
an
eating
establishment
and
a
nightclub,
what
we
see
is
that
there
is,
you
know,
7900
eating
establishments
and
thirty-nine
licensed
nightclubs,
and
we
can
see,
unlike
the
holistic
and
body
rove,
these
license
fees
are
very
similar,
but
where
the
challenge
comes
is
in
the
increase
in
regulation,
around
nightclubs,
nightclubs
have
to
be
an
especially
zoned
area.
There's
they
have
to
have
noise
and
crowd
control
plans.
They
have
to
have
a
security
guard
for
every
hundred
patrons
metal
detectors
at
the
exits
they
have
to
have
comprehensive
insurance.
F
F
What
we
have
noticed
just
through
our
research
and
also
when
speaking
with
MLS,
is
that
something
may
be
a
needing
establishment
in
the
day,
but
actually
in
the
evening
there
might
be
a
nightclub
transformation
and
you
actually
get
a
nightclub
happening
so
making
sure
that
you
have
bylaws
to
be
able
to
deal
with.
This
is
it's
important
because,
obviously,
from
these
two
comparisons,
you
can
see
that
the
City
Council
has
put
emphasis
on
nightclubs
to
have
them
regulated
in
a
certain
form.
H
So
what
we
did
for
this
odd
area
is
we
actually
started
with
MLS
licensing
database
and
we
use
a
keyword
search.
We
search
the
words
within
the
license,
eating
establishments
such
as
large
or
even
like,
some
of
them
actually
their
name,
columns
of
an
icon
and,
and
then
we
found
there
15
of
them.
They
are
licensed
eating
establishment,
but
they
based
on
their
website
advertise
information.
H
They
appear
to
be
operating
as
an
unlicensed
like
cup
and
the
reason
we
say
that's
when
we
look
at
their
website
and
we
see
that
they
have
DJ
night
special
music
nights,
there
will
be
expensive
alcoholic
drinks
menu.
The
operating
hours
is
very
family
evening
to
early
morning
there
pictures
and
images
of
people
standing
around
drinking.
H
So
we
look
into
those
15
places
and
want
to
find
out
what
happened
and
we
found
actually
MLS
had
laid
charges
to
ten
of
them
in
2016
there.
Quite
a
few.
There
are
nine
tickets
in
two
summons,
but
for
tickets
and
to
some
ones
are
specifically
for
operating
illegally
as
my
cup.
So
all
ten
of
these,
we
understand
that
they
continue
to
operate
under
the
license.
H
Eating
establishment
license
again
towards
the
end
of
our
day
we
obtained
from
MOS
provided
as
a
list
of
43
eating
establishment
in
the
Central
District
that
they
potentially
operating
as
my
cup.
This
list
is
from
MLS
our
staff,
so
43
in
the
Central
District.
When
you
compare
right
now,
the
overall
license
for
my
cup
is
30
knife
for
the
entire
city
for
the
fridges
in
the
Central
District.
That's
like
double
the
entire
population
of
our
license.
Night
cup
and.
F
These
some
clubs
we
brought
pictures-
we
don't
have
them
incorporate
into
our
slides,
but
if,
if
the
community
wanted
to
see
a
pictures,
we
have
them
but
they're
not
on
the
line.
It's
not
like
you're,
looking
to
see
whether
it
is
one
or
the
other.
As
far
as
restaurant
I
mean
you
have
I
guess
from
you
know
many
many
people
dancing
over
like
like
a
mosh
pit
kind
of
thing
with
DJ.
F
H
That's
good
auditors.
We
always
try
to
look
into
and
find
out
so
what's
wrong
right.
So
what
we
found
was
actually
again
it's
the
bylaw.
The
definition
of
a
nightcap
in
the
bylaw
is
quite
long,
but
when
we
talk
to
MLS
staff,
the
phone.I
staff
and
the
people
who
enforce
wrote,
they
told
us
that
really
the
key
words
in
the
bylaw
is
these
three
is
sitting
it's
not
provided
for
the
majority
of
the
patrons
and
that's
the
key
words
in
enforcing
this
this
this
this
bylaw
provisions.
H
So,
for
example,
if
there
are
100
patrons
for
the
night
seats,
that's
my
ology,
so
they
are,
they
can
be
a
night
cup
they.
You
know
they
me
tonight,
but
if
they
have
51
seats,
then
it's
not
like
up
right
and
the
definition
really
involved
to
factor
numbers,
seats
and
patrons
patrons.
Is
that
dynamic
factor?
You
have
to
wait
until
it
operates
and
you
go
in
there
officer
literally
has
to
go
in
why
they
are
operating
at
night
and
can't
the
number
had
how
many
people
customer
there.
Some
restaurants
have
multiple
floor.
H
It's
difficult
for
officer
to
count
the
head
and
some
of
them
the
patrons,
come
and
go.
So
there
are
lots
of
enforcement
challenges,
they're
counting
the
numbers
city's.
Not
that
easy
there.
We
were
told
that
there
are
some
places
now
they
use
benches
and
it's
very
arguable
why?
How
many
seats
are
there?
So
just
you
would.
F
F
The
the
really
the
overall
issue
here
as
we
pull
up
the
overall
issue
is
the
definition.
So
when
you
look
at
it,
if
it's
defined
clearly
what
a
nightclub
is
and
the
test
to
be
met
is
one
that
the
officers
can
easily
enforce
and
that
the
prosecution
can
easily
prosecute
it
allows
the
city
to
better
enforce
these
areas.
So
we
just
this
is
this
is
defined
as
a
restaurant.
There
are
other
areas
that
have
eating
tables,
but
if
you
look
at
this,
it's
it
gives
you.
F
H
When
we
look
at
the
license
application
form
that
eating
establishment
and
the
process,
so
this
is
one
of
the
form
the
applicants
has
to
fill
out,
whether
they
apply
for
eating
establishment
or
unlike
up
license.
So
when
we
look
at
a
sample
of
these
forms,
even
on
the
form
itself,
when
the
applicants
provided
the
information,
there's
some
hints
that
they
gonna
be
operating,
it's
not
just
as
a
eating
establishment.
So
this
one
we
gave
you
an
example.
It's
so
that
they're
gonna
have
270
maximum
capacity
and
they're
going
to
open
from
4
p.m.
H
H
It's
equally
important
to
point
out
that
the
existing
bylaw
classifications
of
nightclubs
and
eating
establishment
were
established
long
time
ago.
As
far
as
we
can
tell
it's
almost
like
since
2005
and
there's
really
nothing
in
between
and
eating
establishment
and
unlike
up
license-
and
we
do
recognize,
the
restaurant
industry
changes
in
many
places.
They
want
to
be
eating
as
during
the
day
and
that
nice
they
want
to
like
turn
into
a
different
venue
and
also
the
city,
demographic
has
changed
and
that
we
really
recommended
that.
F
So
overall
I'll
begin
where
I
started.
Mls
has
a
complex
job.
It's
an
array
of
emerging
issues.
They
are
have
a
lot
of
directives
from
various
areas
and
also
that
some
of
the
laws
are
not
clear.
So
starting
from
the
beginning,
making
sure
that
the
bylaws
are
clear,
making
sure
they're
prioritized
making
sure
the
tests
are
there
and
then
the
investigation
is
training
and
things
happen
to
make
sure
that
the
officers
know
how
to
meet.
F
Those
tests
will
really
help
to
make
sure
that
the
city's
direction
and
enforcement
happens
in
a
cost-effective
manner
and
I
recognize
that
MLS
has
moved
along
on
some
different
fronts.
But
overall,
we've
recommended
MLS
has
accepted
that
we
leverage
the
chief
transformation
officer.
This
is
an
area
that
I
think
would
really
benefit
and
to
take
a
risk-based
approach
to
make
sure
that
services
are
delivered
in
a
cost-effective
manner
and
where
possible,
leverage
technology,
Thank.
A
I
This
was
something
that
I
personally
raised,
especially
with
the
the
restaurants
about
a
year
ago
and
when
I
sort
of
looked
a
little
bit
on
the
research
I
was
astounded
to
see
that
3,000
square-foot
place,
which
is
probably
40%
of
this
room
people
are
advertising
at
600.
People
to
go
in
is
also
surprising
that
other
ones
that
were
inviting
people
after
hours
and
the
tables
were
moved
apart
and
as
you're
saying
that
there's
no
metal
detectors
no.
I
Bouncers,
we
can
call
it
for
another
way,
and
yet
we
kept
on
allowing
them
to
still
continue
working
and
the
safety
of
the
of
the
partygoers.
If
I
might
say
in
that
word
were
put
at
risk.
It's
surprising
that
we
haven't
had
any
any
difficulties,
as
in
other
places
and
any
accidents,
and
thank
God
that
we
haven't
is
I'm,
not
gonna,
say
this
was
a
failure
on
our
part
as
a
city
to
look
at
that.
I
J
Through
you,
mr.
chair,
we
are
aware
that
restaurants
reading
establishments
have
been
morphing
into
what
some
people
may
consider
nightclubs.
That's
an
issue
that
we've
identified
quite
some
time
ago
did
have
some
conversations
in
that
regard
through
our
liquor
licensing
ask
force,
and
it
has
formed
part
of
the
work
plan
for
the
review
of
five
four
five
to
look
at
how
we
are
licensing
eatest
at
eating
establishments,
including
nightclubs
writ
large,
so
that
it
has
been
on
our
work
plan.
Yes,
moving.
J
Through
you,
mr.
chair
I'm,
not
clear
in
respect
to
the
question
about
Wallner
ability
or
the
assertion
that
the
city
is
responsible
for
all
activities
that
occur
within
a
licensed
premise.
We
license
businesses,
we
license
a
myriad
of
different
types
of
businesses.
They
are
permitted
to
operate
pursuant
to
the
the
regulation
that
we
lay
out
and
where
there
are
where
there
are
cases
of
non-compliance,
we
have
a
suite
of
enforcement
actions
that
we
can
take.
Let.
I
Me
be
a
little
bit
more
specific
if
I
can,
and
maybe
that
you
will
understand
what
my
question
comes
from
an
establishment.
That's
3,000
square
feet
tax
in
five,
four
hundred
people,
if
it's
not
enough,
we
as
a
city
have
said
to
that
establishment
and
you've
laid
charges
on
and
say:
look
you
can't
operate
this
they're
still
probably
continuing
to
operate.
It
could
be
sent
to
be
corrected
here.
Should
an
accident
happen
in
that
establishment
because
of
overcrowding?
J
You,
mr.
chair,
no
sir
I,
do
not
believe
we
would
and
I'll
defer
to
my
legal
colleagues
to
share.
We
license
a
business
to
operate
in
a
certain
way.
Certainly,
issues
in
respect
to
overcrowding
are
also
matters
that
are
addressed
addressed
through
the
FP
PA
or
the
Ontario
fire
code.
So
there's
a
variety
of
regulations
that
oversee
how
a
premise
any
business
is
ought
to
is
responsible
to
operate
under.
I
I
J
Through
mr.
chair
just
to
be
clear,
the
city
does
not
license
sexual
services.
We
have
a
business
license
by
law
that
governs
body
rub
parlors.
There
is
capped
at
25.
We
have
a
business
license
category
dealing
with
holistic
practitioners
that
includes
holistic
services
such
as
Reiki
iridology,
and
a
variety
of
different,
less
traditional
medicines
or.
J
Sir,
that
25
licensed
party
room
parlors
I
do
not
believe
there
are
any.
There
are
none
in
Ward,
39
and
those
those
establishments
have
been
in
existence,
pretty
melt
pretty
well
since
the
late
70s,
which
is
the
last
time
that
the
body
rub
parlor
bylaw,
was
updated.
I
just
want
to
be
very
clear.
The.
C
Thank
You,
mr.
chairman,
first
and
foremost
thank
you
to
the
auditor
general
representation,
annex
representation
and
also
a
huge
thing
to
two
MLS
staff,
for
the
amazing
work
that
they've
been
doing
now.
With
regards
to
the
first
question
and
during
a
presentation
indicated
that
there
is
a
need
to
step
and
ponder
in
terms
of
how
we're
going
to
proceed
and
move
forward
and
at
the
same
time
we
think
a
reports
you
are
stating
that
the
purpose
and
objective
is
to
have
clear,
specific
and
enforceable
bylaws
for
the
city
to
be
effective.
C
If
our
city
staff
had
the
tools
and
then
we
can
do
the
work,
we
also
measure
the
technologies
and
the
possible
solutions.
Now
on
that
specific
point
is
I:
do
have
a
question
in
terms
of
one
of
the
directives
that
came
to
through
counsel
in
the
community,
mainly
to
a
staff,
and
that
goes
back
to
January,
21st
2015,
and
in
that
there
were
two
recommendations.
C
You
know
2015
I,
believe
it
was
a
bit
too
ambitious
from
our
part
to
ask
for
that,
but
specifically
the
report
as
a
forum
to
a
streamline
the
processes
to
encourage
the
use
of
technology
to
make
it
easier
for
business
to
operate
in
China,
so
I
think
that's
one
of
the
key
pieces
in
terms
of
moving
forward
making
sure
that
our
velocity
in
place.
Why
is
taking
a
little
bit
too
long?
It's
almost
it's
going
to
be
three
years
that
we've
been
waiting
for
and
in
the
target
date
according
to
the
report
is
2019.
J
Through
your
mr.
chair,
I,
think
I'm
hearing
a
question
in
respect
to
two
pieces,
one
being
the
comprehensive
review
of
our
business
licensing
regime
captured
in
Toronto
missile
code
chapter
five,
four,
five,
the
other
piece
being.
What
are
we
doing
as
far
as
implementing
technology
to
address
efficiencies?
So
on
the
review
of
five
four
five?
J
Yes,
we
had
an
ambitious
timeline,
absolutely
a
number
of
emerging
issues
developed
since
the
time
we
drafted
that
plan
for
545
I,
don't
think
I
need
to
go
through
the
various
industries
that
have
been
disrupted
and
are
continuing
to
be
disrupted
in
that
regard.
So
certainly
the
review
of
five
four
five
I,
don't
want
to
say
the
you
word.
J
There
has
been
bodies
of
work
done
through
our
liquor,
licensing
task
force
and
other
meetings
we've
been
having
with
the
industry,
because
we
do
believe
there's
a
better
way
writ
large
to
deal
with
the
way
we
license
eating
establishments
of
all
kinds
from
subway
to
some
that
are
more
adventurous
with
music
or
what-have-you,
as
well
as
the
work
we're
trying
to
do
as
a
city
to
advance
live
music
venues.
So
there's
a
lot
of
work
to
go
around
that
piece
in
respect
to
the
technology.
J
I
can
say
that
we
do
have
a
number
of
projects
that
are
actually
in
flight
right
now.
Our
data
Mart
business
intelligence
we've
through
phase
one
into
Phase,
two
we're
one
of
six
divisions
that
have
automated
F
pers
measures.
In
that
regard,
we
also
have
an
RFP
that
should
be
hitting
the
street
next
month.
I
hope
to
procure
to
look
at
our
current
systems.
J
C
A
C
C
Three
or
is
to
the
Auditor
General
in
terms
of
the
recommendation.
That
would
be
part
two,
the
holistic
s--
so
is
we
went
through
the
review
and
I
believe
that
it
was
2011
and
by
then
we
were
told
that
and
I
was
part
of
I
was
the
chair
of
the
licensing
standards,
so
they
we
have
the
holistic,
centers
and
practice
practitioner
business,
those
that
deal
with
the
traditional,
the
medication
and
so
on
now
the
legitimate
ones
that
they
are
prey
between
95.
F
Ones:
yes,
yes,
the
therapeutic
ones.
It's
it's
more
related
to
what
I
call
instead
of
sexual
services,
the
unauthorized
services.
If
you
have
a
dentist
and
they're
offering
you
no
unauthorized
services,
the
same
kind
of
thing,
so
if
it's
therapeutic,
if
it
reflects
the
bylaw,
that's
that's
fine!
It's
the
services
beyond
that
that
we
think
that
counsel
needs
to
get
to.
A
We'll
leave
that
the
last
question
once
we
get
to
the
members
if
somebody
wants
to
place
a
motion,
I'll
place
it
to
go
to
a
second
round,
councillor
Matt
low,
so
we
can
do
that
right.
Now,
all
the
members
of
the
committee
in
favor
of
supporting
a
second
round
of
questions.
Thank
you
very
much.
That's
carried.
We
will
come
back
to
will
let
everyone
get
a
turn
here.
Thank.
K
K
K
K
To
focus
maybe
on
that
that
example
to
go
from
an
eating
establishment
to
a
nightclub,
I
I
would
think
perhaps
maybe
in
the
suburbs.
It's
not
really
such
a
big
issue,
because
the
the
bar
or
the
barrier
to
entry
for
an
entrepreneur
to
become
a
nightclub
actually
isn't
that
much
more
than
being
an
eating
establishment.
Correct
I
have
to
have
a
metal
detector.
They
have
to
have
a
bit
more
security,
but
if
I
want
to
open
a
nightclub,
it's
not
that
hard
to
open
up
a
nightclub.
J
Yes,
so
through
you,
madam
chair,
the
issue
is
the
matter
of
zoning
and
with
the
permissions
when
the
nightclub
category
was
created
in
2005,
it
was
created
around
dealing
with
specific
public
safety
issues
that
had
arisen
in
the
entertainment
district.
The
it
was
set
out
believe
as
an
interim
measure,
to
address
ensuring
there
were
public
safety
in
these
large
venue
spaces.
So
there
is,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
a
need,
and
we
are
discussing
with
City
Planning
Toronto
building
active.
J
How
do
we
address
the
interest
of
the
people
in
the
city
in
various
pockets
to
go
to
places
to
enjoy
live
music
and
then
what
do
those
venues
look
like?
What
is
the
underlying
zoning
permissions
that
are
required
to
be
in
place
and
then
what
are
the
appropriate
licensing
regulations
that
need
to
be
enacted?
So
it's
a
it's
a
large
body
of
work
and
to
the
audio
generals,
comments,
I
wholly
agree.
It
is
complex
and
it
requires
a
great
deal
of
work
from
a
number,
a
number
of
divisions.
So
it's
not
that
easy,
an
answer.
K
J
You,
madam
chair,
any
any
applicant
for
an
eating,
establishment
or
nightclub,
requires
a
zoning
clearance.
It's
done
through
Toronto
Building.
They
enter
Toronto
Building,
make
that
application
for
zoning
clearance
and
then
that's
shared
with
us.
So
the
zoning
needs
to
permit
that
type
of
a
use.
What
we're
getting
into
are
the
complexities
in
the
manner
in
which
uses
are
defined?
What
is
or
is
not
enshrined
and
H
or
other
respective
regulation,
be
it
zoning
or
licensing.
So
it's
it's
not
quite
that
simple.
Unfortunately,
right.
K
And
through
you,
madam
chair
I'd,
imagine
the
the
difficulty
with
our
bylaw
as
well
in
terms
of
these
two
categories
is
that
when
we
as
counselors
or
members
of
the
public,
to
call
you
up
your
department
up
and
say,
there's
noise
at
3
o'clock
in
the
morning
they're
speeding,
there's
fistfights,
there's
people
vomiting
some
man
peed
in
my
bushes
right
in
front
of
my
my
veranda.
You
can't
really
take
that
back
to
the
club
and
say
you're
shut
down,
so
the
club
owner
says
to
you.
J
Through
you,
madam
chair,
what
I
think
you've
well
articulated
deputy
mayor
do
bear
makers.
Law
enforcement
is
challenging.
There
are
a
variety
of
tools
that
we
can
use
that
are
applicable
to
the
various
parties
to
whom
we
can
hold
to
account
so
for
conduct
such
as
noise.
In
the
premises
we
have
the
noise
bylaw.
We
have
mechanisms
for
that.
People
walking
down
the
street
and
urinating
in
public
may
be
an
issue
with
the
police
and
we
do
work
with
the
police
and
the
alcohol
and
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
frequently
on
establishments.
J
That
may
be
problematic,
and
we
have
discussed
this
at
previous
meetings
where
we
bring
to
bear
the
variety
of
regulatory
or
other
enforcement
tools
that
are
available
to
address
the
various
issues,
but
I
think
you've
characterized
it
well.
These
these
matters
can
be
complex.
We
encourage
compliance.
The
bylaws
are
drafted
such
that
it
it
allows
for
compliance,
and
then
we
have
the
tools
of
enforcement
to
deal
for
with
those
instances
where
they
are.
K
Not
and
thank
you
and
three,
madam
chair,
with
my
limited
time,
I'm
gonna,
ask
maybe
about
the
hundred
and
sixty-eight
directives
that
remain
outstanding.
Had
the
Auditor
General
highlighted
that
as
part
of
her
presentation,
for
example,
we're
waiting
on
a
report
on
on
whether
we
should
microchip
cats
and
yet
that
report
is
two
years
old.
Two
years
waiting
and
I
know
you're
staffed
up
more
than
you
used
to
be,
but
wouldn't
shouldn't.
K
J
Through
you,
madam
chair,
I,
wish
it
was
as
simple
as
simply
saying,
add
1
to
20
more
policy
staff.
All
of
these
bodies
of
work
requires
significant
public
engagement,
stakeholder
engagement
and
it
requires
the
attention
of
management,
so
quite
frankly,
to
make
sure
that
we
are
all
doing
this
in
in
fulsome
consideration
of
the
suite
of
issues
we
have
for
the
city.
So
it's
not
necessarily
a
matter
of
bodies.
I
will
share
that.
We
have.
J
L
If
I
could
just
add
through
you,
madam
chair
or
the
staff
had
prepared
and
for
the
committee
a
list
of
those
items,
we've
grouped
them
din
subject
matters
we've
said
these
ones
are
going
to
be
taken
care
of
in
this
way
with
this
report
at
that
expected
time
and
there's
been
a
thorough
discussion
about
workload
and
resources
at
committee
and
we'll
continue
to
have
to
confront
the
overwhelming
demand
for
additional
work
from
our
staff.
Great.
L
G
Think
you
and
I'm
chair
I,
served
by
my
colleagues,
another
great
report
done
by
the
Auditor
General
to
start
off
I'm
going
to
go
through
my
questions.
It
kind
of
numerically
through
the
items
here
so
starting
off
on
page
7,
so
18
businesses
were
operating
without
valid
or
up-to-date
licenses
which,
through
the
audit,
you
have
found
to
understand
the
scope
of
the
issue
here
at
hand.
How
many
businesses
do
we
have
in
the
City
of
Toronto
licensed
businesses.
G
F
Are
87,000
I
guess
licensed
businesses
I
think
we
have
the
very
first
slide
we
have
87
thousand
there
is.
We
have
also
have
identified
about
I
think
it's
nine
hundred
that
were
unlicensed,
but
they
identify
found.
Many
of
these
have
become
licensed,
so
there's
probably
about
fifty
percent
that
are
still
unlicensed
of
of
the
nine
hundred
self.
G
G
Okay,
so
moving
through
onto
page
eight,
so
just
under
so
so
some
business
businesses
have
higher
ten
inspections
here.
Some
have
not
even
been
inspected
to
understand
the
I
guess
through
MLS
staff.
Here
is
this
because
they
have
concerns
with
businesses
the
MLS
officers,
so
they
are
attending
the
sites
more
often
so.
J
Through
you,
madam
chair,
yes,
we
we
direct
our
officers
to
go
where
we
believe
there
may
be
issues
arise
or
where
we've
received
complaints,
or
we
have
evidence
thereof.
So
there
will
be
a
cadre
of
businesses
that
are
operating
compliantly,
of
which
we
have
no
complaints
for
and
based
on
the
demands
on
our
time
and
the
resources
we
have.
We
focus
them
where
we
know
we
need
to.
We've
tried
to
focus
on
where
we
know
they
need
to
be
so.
G
J
So
sorry
through
you,
madam
chair,
so
the
apartment
building
standards
program
was
a
proactive
program
to
start
and
and
thanks
for
calling
that
out,
because
we've
done
a
ton
of
great
work
to
implement
that
the
reviews
we're
doing
right
now
are
to
get
a
sense
of
the
state
of
affairs
in
the
the
building
maintenance.
So,
as
far
as
using
data
to
support
where
we're
focusing
our
enforcement
efforts,
your
bang
on
we
have
created
positions
or
data
data
and
scheduling
analysts
to
help
us
do
that.
J
Utilizing
the
data
that
we
can
with
the
existing
system,
but
also
that's
why
we
invested
a
great
deal
of
the
city
is
invested
a
great
deal
of
time
and
money
into
moving
forward
with
phase
two
of
our
data
Mart
bi
tool,
which
will
also
help
drill
that
out,
as
well
as
the
new
systems
we're
seeking
to
procure,
which
will
also
help
target.
You
know
recidivism
and
and
repeat
offenders.
So
it's
absolutely
the
same
approach
and.
J
You,
madam
chair,
absolutely
councillor
Ford
every
investigation.
Every
inspection
can
lead
you
down
a
very
various
different
paths
or
lead
you
down
no
path
at
all,
so
it
certainly
depends
on
the
nature
of
the
complaint
and
manner
in
which
we
need
to
undertake
the
reviews.
How
often
we
may
need
to
return
how
quickly
we
can
connect
with
complainants
how
quickly
we
can
connect
with
the
licensee.
So
there's
a
variety
of
factors
that
can,
you
know,
call
the
Gras
Jones
and
say
you
could
solve
a
homicide
in
15
minutes
or
15
years.
J
G
I
guess
just
view
my
last
question.
So
in
order
to
I
guess,
cut
this
down
and
be
more
efficient,
I
guess,
would
you
recommend
policy
changes,
or
does
it
really
where?
Where
where
does
the
challenges
lie?
Does
it
rely
on
resources
you
have
in
MLS?
Is
it
policy?
Is
it
if
we
can
make
it
change?
Where
would
that
change
be
to
pick
this
up
so.
J
J
I,
think
that
is
something
that
we
haven't
ever
to
do
through
the
time
that
I
know
my
predecessors
have
and
I
have
done,
and
all
my
colleagues
do
is
to
bring
clarity
around
what
the
rules
are.
So
people
can
willfully
comply,
make
it
clear
clearly
understood
for
those
who
the
majority
of
people
who
comply
with
the
law,
and
then
we've
got
the
tools
to
deal
with
those
those
outliers
that
don't
thank
you,
mean
I'm
sure.
B
Are
there
other
areas
in
the
city
that
also
do
enforcement,
that
maybe
we
can
look
at
I
know
you
haven't
done
done
a
report
on
them
or
investigated
them,
but
best
practices
or
possible
overlap
where
we
can
learn
things
and
add
those
into
to
how
MLS
does
investigations
and
how
other
areas
do
their
investigations.
Thank.
B
So
recommendation
number
seven
to
have
the
chief
transformation
officer
look
at
at
at
this.
Are
there
other
areas
in
the
city
that
do
their
own
investigations
that
we
can
either
look
at
best
practices
or
or
look
at
other
areas
where
we
can
learn
from
those
divisions
possible
overlap
of
of
what
they're
doing
a.
L
Very
very
important
question
I
appreciate
it.
I
want
us
to
step
back
and
actually
pay
attention.
The
answer
that
the
head
of
MLS
gave
to
an
earlier
question,
which
was
was
this
audit
a
surprise
and
in
many
respects
this
ought
is
not
a
surprise
and
in
many
respects
we
do
need
to
understand
as
a
city
that
we
have
a
wide
variety
of
inspection
functions
in
public
health
in
fire
in
building
in
a
variety
of
other
areas.
These
have
something
profoundly
in
common,
which
is
that
they
are
structured
inspection
services.
L
A
Is
it
fair
to
say
that,
when
respect
to
governing
over
and
regulating
places
of
business,
the
places
of
business
that
are
in
place
that
was
described
in
this
I'm
talking
really
about
all
three
reports?
That
MLS
is
maybe
one
petal
on
the
flower
may
be
better
one
leg
of
the
black
widow
spider
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
other
things
that
are
involved
in
this
and
I.
Think
about
councillor
Carey
Janice's
question
about
safety
in
a
room
filled
with
people.
J
To
you,
mr.
chair,
as
I,
mentioned,
the
partnerships
that
we
have
with
our
other
enforcement
divisions
are
key.
So
certainly
we've
partnerships
with
Toronto
building,
Toronto
Fire,
Services,
Toronto,
Public
Health.
We
were
just
meeting
with
the
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
last
week
and
we
were
up
again
the
Toronto
Police
Service.
So
all
of
these
various
bodies
that
all
have
a
piece
of
the
responsibility
we
are,
we
are
engaged
with
and
we
do
the
best
we
can
to
integrate
and
share
in
each
other's
enforcement
efforts.
So.
A
A
Do
the
plans
examiner's
look
at
things
that
appear
to
be
configured
like
a
nightclub.
You
know
something
that
doesn't
have
a
kitchen
right.
What
kind
of
restaurant
is
this
if
you've
got
a
10
square
foot
kitchen
and
a
bunch
of
open
space?
So
presumably
there
is
some
early
process
here
to
what
degree
is
MLS
integrated
into
that
process?
And
maybe
it's
a
broader
question,
because
buildings
kind
of
manages
that
startup
phase
and
planning
manages
that
startup
phase
and
then
MLS
needs
to
own
and
look
after
the
asset
through
the
life
of
the
asset.
A
J
So
to
you,
mr.
chair,
absolutely
we
rely
heavily
on
our
partners
in
Toronto
building
they're,
the
ones
that
provide
the
zoning
clearance
for
the
various
businesses.
We
were
quite
require
a
zoning
clearance
for,
and
certainly
there
is
a
significant
level
of
due
diligence
that
is
done
on
on
their
part.
We
take
that
we
take
the
information
we're
provided
by
the
applicant
and
we
make
a
determination
based
on
that.
You
know.
I
I
love
your
analogy
walks
like
a
duck
talks
like
a
duck.
J
We
tried
that
through
one
of
our
court
matters
it
didn't
quite
flow
through
that
easily
it's
it's
not
always.
We
know
that
the
duck
is
going
to
be
a
goose
doctor
may
appear
as
a
duck
and
for
the
purposes
of
issuing
a
permit
and
a
license.
We
have
to
gauge
ourselves
govern
ourselves
and
they
have
a
right
to
business
licenses.
They
were
right
to
building
permits
based
on
the
information
we
are
provided,
so
there's
a
responsibility
to
act
and
treat
the
duck
as
a
duck.
A
J
A
It
presumably
professionals
put
their
stamp
of
certification
on
things
that
they
put
into
the
building
Department
for
approval.
Is
there
any
tentacle
or
vector
to
go
along
that
Avenue
to
say
you
know
professional
you're
designing
a
duck?
It
should
be
a
duck
at
the
end
of
the
day,
and
we
want
to
hold
you
accountable
as
a
city
to
make
sure
that
it's
it's
going.
J
So
to
you,
mr.
chair,
certainly
I
think
the
opportunity
and
where
this
really
starts,
is
how
we
are
going
to
regulate
around
this
industry.
Whatever
this
industry
be
eating,
establishment,
nightclub,
entertainment
facilities
and
it
starts
with
how
we
define
those
uses
from
a
land-use
perspective
than
how
we
define
them
from
a
licensing
perspective.
Those
having
those
well
defined
will
help
inform
the
processes
later
on.
I
can
I
can
look
to
my
friends
in
Toronto
building
to
share
the
rigor
that
they
put
in
the
current
process
through.
M
Through
the
chair,
a
couple
points
I'd
like
to
bring
up
is
one
is
when
we
are
issuing
the
building
permits.
We
do
ask
those
questions
and
look
at
it
to
see
based
on
the
information
we
have.
How
is
the
use?
How
does
it?
What
does
it
look
like
it's
going
to
be
used
for
and
assign
the
right
category?
The
second
part
I
want
to
address
is
your
question
with
respect
to
professionals
making
statements
and
where
those
statements
may
turn
out
to
be
different.
M
After
the
fact
in
Toronto
building,
we
do
rely
on
registered
professionals
to
provide
us
with
information.
There
are
circumstances
where
that
information
turns
out
to
be
different
later
on
in
the
process.
The
City
of
Toronto
doesn't
have
the
ability
to
regulate
those
professionals.
There's
acts
that
do
that,
but
when
those
matters
come
to
our
attention,
we
do
refer
those
cases
back
to
the
professional
associations
for
their
review
and
action.
Thank.
A
I
You,
chair
and
I
appreciate
the
indulgence
of
allowing
us
a
second
round
of
questions,
my
questions
with
chair
to
staff
and
certainly
to
the
Ottawa
general.
What
tools
do
you
foresee
us
needing
in
order
to
meet
the
challenges
ahead
in
the
MLS
people?
Is
it
financing
is
a
change
of
method
of
operation?
Is
it
better
reporting.
F
I
think
MLS
and
I
are
on
the
same
page
in
relation
to
getting
clarity
in
some
of
these
areas
to
assist
with
their
enforcement
and
then
looking
at
you
look
into
the
transformation
officer
to
assist
MLS
in
making
sure
that
they
transform
to
make
sure
things
are
streamlined
and
the
right
resources
go
in
the
right
area.
They're
working
on
some
systems
for
better
information,
I
think
that's
good,
but
everything
flows
from
the
beginning
and
so
making
sure
that's
all
connected
is
important.
So
I
would
start
with
making
sure
the
laws
are
clear.
F
That's
a
matter
for
council
and
for
legal
count
for
City,
Council
and
legal
council.
I
would
prioritize
to
make
sure
that
you
are
prioritizing.
Perhaps
one
of
these
areas
over
the
microchipping
campus,
although
I
think
that's
still
an
important
matter.
So
you
know,
MLS
cannot
be
all
things
to
everybody,
so
prioritizing
being
clear
in
the
laws.
That's
a
running
start
and
then
the
rest
will
flow
in
after
that.
Do.
I
I
The
officer
can
knock
once
can
knock
twice
cannot
three
times
this
your
letter,
then
we
have
to
tell
them
why
we're
going
in
and
write
it
in
the
letter,
of
course,
that
signals
flags
will
go
off,
puts
up
the
house
and
moves
out
and
for
them
to
get
in
then
we
have
to
get
a
search
warrant.
Is
there
something
that
could
be
done
to
allow
the
streamline
the
process
that
we
can
go
to
the
provincial
government
say?
I
Listen,
we
need
to
change
in
order
for
us
to
go
ahead,
because
when
you
got
a
provincial
I
mean
when
you
got
a
an
MLS
officer
having
to
go
back
to
the
same
resident,
four
or
five
times
we're
getting
the
heat,
we're
putting
the
heat
on
them
and
they
can't
get
in.
Is
there
something
that
could
be
done
in
order
to
prioritize?
I
F
You
and
through
you
mr.
chair,
one
of
our
first
recommendations,
was
to
look
to
legal
to
really
take
a
good
look
at
enforcement
mechanisms
right
from
unlicensed
businesses
to
unauthorized
services
and
they're,
going
to
need
time
to
take
that
away
and
to
come
up
with
the
best
recommendations
on
what
would
work
again,
starting
with
a
clear
by
lob.
And
they
can
move
to
the
leveraging
enforcement
right.
J
Through
mr.
chair
I
just
feel
it's
important.
The
Auditor
General
may
not
have
the
context.
Councillor
Kerry
Janice
is
referencing
our
right
of
entry
to
dwelling
houses,
there's
authority
in
the
City
of
Toronto
act
and
authority
through
the
Planning
Act,
when
we're
engaging
in
zoning
investigations
that
we
are
required
to
tell
people
that
they
have
a
that.
We
would
like
to
enter
why
we
would
like
to
enter
and
they
have
a
right
to
refuse
so
its
provincial
statute
that
governs
our
authorities
for
right
of
entry.
J
J
I
Going
back
three
or
four
times
in
order
to
go
in,
certainly
that's
a
waste
of
time
of
the
MLS
officers,
so
my
question
again
I'm
going
to
go
back
and
and
try
to
rephrase
this
in
a
different
text.
I
mean
I
was
just
giving
an
example,
and
thank
you
for
bringing
that
out.
I
mean
if
you're,
if
you're
I
mean
as
a
former
police
officer
were
chasing
somebody,
you
wouldn't
tell
them
why
you
were
chasing
them.
You
will
do
your
investigation
and
the
charges.
I
However,
my
question
going
back
to
the
other
generals
who
they
threw
the
chair
is
the
following:
should
we
be
looking
and
working
in
conjunction
with
legal,
to
ask
the
province
of
Ontario
for
better
mechanism
for
us
to
do
the
enforcement
piece
and
to
have
the
right
of
entry
or
to
have
the
right
of
examination?
So
people
I
mean
you
know
like?
Should
we
give
the
officer
more
powers
if
a
policeman
stops
you,
you
can't
say
no,
you
know.
Should
we
give
the
officer
in
the
most
more
last
question,
it's.
F
F
I
can't
speak
to
right
of
entry,
but
that
that's
for
the
legal
team
to
determine
I'm
simply
saying
that
we
saw
areas
not
the
earlier
speaking
of
output,
areas
where
we
did
have
to
increase
our
enforcement
tools
and
and
that's
how
I
answered
at
that
general
level.
So
you
may
want
to
refer
your
question
to
legal
who's
here
today.
L
On
the
issue
of
entry
into
any
business
or
home,
we
have
to
deal
with
things
suit,
with
in
keeping
in
mind
the
Charter
of
Rights
and
Freedoms.
So
if
a
business
is
licensed
and
we
do
have
provisions
on
the
city
bylaws
to
be
able
to
enter
licensed
premises
for
specific
purposes
during
working
hours,
that's
one
thing:
if
they're
unlicensed
businesses,
then
we
don't
have
a
right
to
enter
without
a
warrant
and
the
Canadian
Charter
of
Rights
and
Freedoms
under
Section
8
prohibits
anyone
from
going
in
without
having
a
warrant.
In
those
circumstances,
you.
I
C
It's
quite
clear
that
the
referring
to
the
profession,
holistic
associations,
the
pH
and
the
PHAs,
the
requirement
for
the
PHS,
were
added
to
the
bylaw
in
2005,
following
the
MLS
system
report
and
the
intent
was
for
the
city
to
rely
on
the
accredited
PHS
to
govern
the
members
to
ensure
integrity
of
the
service.
Now
within
report
to
indicate
that
when
you
did
your
review,
you
found
that
top
10
p.m.
H
Yes,
we
we
actually
try
to
list
each
one
of
them
and
and
and
try
to
verify
the
address.
We
also
try
to
look
at
the
website
and
some
of
them
have
no
website
no
telephone
contact
relations,
some
of
them
it's
a
peel
box.
We
did
go
into
some
places,
they're
supposed
to
be
a
puppet
PHA
places,
and
they
sometime
at
you,
is
a
massage
parlor.
No,
so.
J
Through
you
mister
chair
in
1998,
when
the
holistic
scattegories
was
created,
it
was
actually
a
reliance
upon
a
certifying
body
such
as
a
college,
or
what
have
you
in
in
and
around
2005
2006?
It
was
felt
that
that
process
wasn't
working
that
people
were
abusing
the
system.
So
this
idea
of
a
professional
professional
holistic
Association
was
created.
The
bylaw
lays
out
what
is
required
of
a
prevention
professionals
like
Association,
to
be
added
on
to
our
list
of
approved
phas.
That
requires
a
report
and
approval
front.
J
Through
committee
and
council
we
do
have
legitimate
professional
istic
associations,
the
Ontario
herbalist
Association,
Canadian,
Reiki,
iridology,
etc.
We
are.
We
are
aware
that
some
people
have
chosen
to
exploit
the
manner
in
which
the
PHA
bylaw
part
of
the
bylaw
is
is
drafted,
which
relies
on
a
paper
review
only
with
no
revocation
and
no
further
investigation.
It
also,
as
mentioned.
We
do
not
have
regulatory
authority
over
the
PHAs.
There
was
no
articulable
municipal
as
for
doing
so
at
the
time
I
presume.
J
C
Thank
you
is,
wouldn't
you
agree
that
the
governing
licensing
aspect,
mainly
the
oversight
or
the
body,
repair
alerts
and
holistic
centers?
It's
confusing.
It
lacks
oversight
and
is
not
enforceable.
So
just
looking
at
the
whole
thing
and
when
I
speak,
I'll
speak
to
that.
Mr.
chairman,
and
the
reasons
why
I
believe
that
one
of
the
main
problems
that
we
have
throughout
the
city
is
the
proliferation
of
this
business
all
over
that
they're
not
accountable
to
anyone.
C
F
Role
is
simply
to
highlight
if
there
are
areas
for
improvement
and
make
recommendations,
and
and
really
it's
for
the
city
management
team,
in
consultation
with
City
Council,
to
come
up
with
the
right
approach,
and
so
we've
laid
out
some
of
the
others.
We
think
need
to
be
addressed,
and
it's
really
for
the
city
to
take
that
and
run
with
it
and
come
up
with
the
solution
that
works
for
the
city
and.
J
Through
you,
mr.
chair
I'm,
sorry
just
to
be
very
clear:
the
bylaw
is
not
unenforceable.
The
bylaws
are
enforceable,
but
to
to
your
point,
counselor
plat,
CEO
I,
think
there's
a
broader
conversation
that
needs
to
be
had
for
us
as
a
city
to
understand
why
there
has
been
a
proliferation
of
other
activities
in
businesses
that
are
licensed
differently.
This
could
be
happening
in
a
licensed
public
garage.
It's
half
it
could
be
happening
in
any
type
of
license.
Category
I
just
want
to
be
sure
it's
very
clear.
Our
bylaws
are
enforceable.
J
Can
we
do
better
at
reflecting
the
current
business
environment
through
our
regulation?
There's
opportunity
to
do
that,
but
we
have
enforceable
bylaws
law
enforcement
is
challenging,
but
we
are
continuing
to
enforce
the
rules
that
we
have
on
the
books
and
we'll
look
forward
to
a
broader
discussion
on
this
topic
when
we
bring
the
reports
forward.
Thank.
C
A
C
A
N
So
you're
correct,
our
bylaws
are
enforceable,
but
the
problem
is
is
because
we
have
so
many
problem
establishments
and
complaints
where
we
ongoing
make
could
go
on
for
years
same
establishment
and
and
we
have
to
send
enforcement
by
the
enforcement
out
there
constantly
and
issuing
a
fine,
and
then
they
delay
the
process
and
the
courts
and
you're
talking
three
or
four
years
later.
This
problem
establish
is
still
a
problem,
so
we
have
our
bylaws,
but
maybe
I
I
think
what
we
need
to
do
and
I've
been
I've
been
advocating
for
that
for
years.
N
This
may
be
zero
tolerance,
increasing
the
fines
on
these
establishments,
where
you
have
to
continue
re-inspection,
because
that's
where
we're
spending
all
their
energy
and
resources
and
and
being
able
to
find
these
problem
establishments
like
a
high
fine
and
not
go
through
the
court
system.
I
think
that's
really
where
the
problems
are
with
with
the
inspections,
so
increasing
the
fines
and
as
well
licensing.
We
have
tons
of
reports
that
we've
requested
that's
been
years
and
we
haven't
had
an
opportunity.
The
reports
haven't
been
party
questions
yeah,
but
that
was
one
question.
N
So,
as
far
as
the
stop
bringing
forth
the
reports
is
the
lack
of
staff
III,
don't
know
you
said
when
you
did
your
investigation
and
you
know
maybe
asking
the
province
for
the
tools
where
we
can
be
a
little
more
aggressive
in
addressing
these.
These
problem
establishments
and
and
the
other
question
is
liquor,
license
establishments
most
of
the
complaints
we
get
that
are
licensed.
The
businesses
have
liquor
licenses
and
we
need
the
province
to
work
with
the
city
on
closing
these
establishments
up
and
revoking
their
license.
So
those
are
my
questions.
N
F
A
lot
in
there
and
I
think
there's
a
lot
in
there
for
stuff.
There's
we've
the
things
that
you've
raised.
We
have
considered
in
the
audit,
but
our
role
is
not
to
come
up
with
the
solution.
It
really
is
management
and
I
think
that
they
do
need
that
time
to
take
away,
but
you've
raised
some
things
that
we
were.
You
know
thinking
about
as
we
were
going
through
it,
but
we
we
don't
recommend
those
kinds
of
solutions.
F
That
they're
in
the
holistic
area
there's
a
number
of
unauthorized
services.
The
question
is:
what
is
it
that
City
Council
would
like
to
have
in
that
bylaw
legal
to
define
how
to
deal
with
those
aspects?
What
is
the
enforcement
mechanism?
Is
it
a
higher
penalty,
or
is
it
something
else
and
enforcement
there's
a
whole
range
of
things
that
have
to
be
considered
so
I?
N
F
So
I
apologize,
yes,
sir,
we
highlighted
in
the
area
of
holistic
Saul.
So
in
the
area
of
restaurants,
there
are
two
examples:
there's
other
examples
and
I
know
that
MLS
will
know.
There
are
examples
where
clarity
needs
to
be
brought,
and
it's
really
now
force
management
to
bring
recommendations
to
you
and
how
to
fix.
Maybe
those
in
other
areas
and
there's
a
lot
of
a
body
of
work
here
with
five.
Four
five
is
a
very
large
bylaw.
So
prioritizing
the
areas
to
be
addressed
first
are
important.
So
that's
so
it's
really
for
management
to
fix.
J
Sure
you,
mr.
chair
the
the
reference
councillor
Nunziata
to
finds
just
for
clarity
for
part
one
offenses.
The
fines
are
set
by
the
senior
regional
justice
of
the
peace
for
the
province
of
Ontario.
The
provincial
statute
gives
us
the
the
maximum
fines
that
may
be
levied
subject
to
what
is
embedded
in
our
bylaws
as
well,
and
as
we
draft
five,
four
or
five
or
actually,
as
we
draft
any
of
our
bylaws.
J
J
Now
that
we've
moved
some
of
our
work
towards
administrative
penalties
and
whether
that
has
an
opportunity
for
us
in
business
licensing-
and
that
is
discussions
that
we
are
having.
And
if
you
want
to
have
anything
here.
So
certainly
as
we
draft
the
bylaws,
we
ensure,
as
we
did
with
five
four
six
and
our
apartment
building,
bylaw,
that
we
have
the
opportunity
for
the
courts
to
attach
the
maximum
allowable
fines
as
per
the
provincial
statute.
But
it
is
ultimately
up
to
the
kourt's
when
it
is
adjudicated
matter
setting
the
fine
that
is
payable.
So.
J
F
G
J
Through
you,
mr.
chair
I,
the
Provincial
Offences
Act
allows
for
the
maxims
I.
Think
for
a
corporation
is
25,000
individuals,
I
think
is
five
thousand.
It
depends
on
which
statutes
being
applied.
In
this
case
it
would
be
the
POA.
There
are
also
I,
don't
know
whether
we
have
embedded
allowance
for
special
fines
or
continuing
fines.
Some
of
our
bylaws
have
it
I,
just
can't
recall
off
the
top
of
my
head.
J
If
they
have
it
here,
certainly,
if,
if
you
want
to
follow
counselor,
Nunziata
Streck
and
request
the
province
to
increase
the
maximum
fines
in
the
provincial
statutes
that
the
courts
may
then
look
to,
that
would
be
a
thing
to
ask
for,
but
as
far
as
we're
concerned,
we
operate
within
the
confines
of
that.
That
allowable
amount,
no.
G
$25,000
is
an
a
light
fine,
so
we
have
the
ability
of
doing
that
and
and
I
think
very
similar
to
my
last
question,
the
first
round
having
experience
working
with
MLS
and
when
they
issue
fines.
So
you
have
the
ability
to
do
so,
but
if
it
is
our
first
time
not
offense,
but
if
his
first
time
units
came
to
your
attention,
it
tends
to
be
lower
and
we
work
our
way
up.
Is
that
correct.
L
Through
you,
mr.
chair,
if
I
could
just
take
a
little
bit
of
a
moment
to
talk
about
fines
in
general,
so
under
the
POA
there's
two
processes
that
will
be
affected
by
by
law,
offenses
so
number.
The
first
part
is
under
part
one
of
the
Provincial
Offences
Act
and
that's
what
people
refer
to
as
those
ticket
offenses.
So
that's
when
you
get
a
ticket
and
it
has
a
mount
on
it
and
it
says
you
can
pay
this
out
of
court
and
it
ends
it.
L
Okay
and
those
are
set
amounts
and
those
were
what
referred
to
as
set
fines.
Those
are
the
ones
that
are
approved
by
the
regional
senior
judge
for
the
City
of
Toronto
and
those
are
approved
by
him
or
her
whoever
sitting
at
the
time.
The
other
way
we
can
proceed
under
a
bylaw
fences
under
part
three,
where
there
is
not
a
fine
amount
defined
and
the
justice
of
the
peace
has
a
range
that
they
can
determine
what
fine
will
be
applied.
L
When
we
go
to
court,
we
can
ask
from
the
prosecution's
perspective
forth,
particular
fine,
but
ultimately
it's
up
to
the
justice
of
the
peace
to
determine
the
appropriate
fine
and
what
they
will
do
is
consider
the
sentencing
principles,
including,
is
this
a
first
time
offense?
Has
the
person
brought
the
establishment
into
compliance?
What
have
they
done?
Having
been
notified
of
the
offence?
Is
this
a
continuing
offense?
Is
this
someone
who
has
been
here
ten
times
and
hasn't
paid
a
dollar
of
their
fines?
L
G
And
I
guess
my
last
question
on
that.
You
know
I
sympathize
with
my
Downtown
colleagues
having
the
product
with
you
know
some
of
the
noise
complaints
that
surround
them
and
I'm
sure
many
many
more
have
we
that
currently
effect
when
we
do
charge
or
when
we
do
lay
you
know
charges
the
design
effect
is
the
positive
effect.
Do
we
see
either
kind
of
bringing
themselves
back
to
what
they
are
licensed
for?
Is
it
effective
when
we
do
it?
Are
they
effective.
J
So
through
you,
mr.
chair,
that's
it's
a
great
question:
counselor
Forks!
It
really
speaks
to
the
effectiveness
enforcement,
respect
to
compliance
or
the
level
of
willful
compliance.
You
know,
I
would
say
you
know,
as
I
mentioned
earlier
generally
most
people
operate
in
compliance
with
the
law
and
providing
them
clear
direction
on
what
compliance
looks
like
is
very
helpful
and
that's
what
we
endeavour
to
do
through
a
range
of
enforcement
efforts.
We
have
many
people
who
will
comply
after
we've,
attended
their
property
explained
to
them
the
rules
or
just
orally,
and
they
understood
I
didn't
know.
J
I
was
supposed
to
do
that
or
I
didn't
know.
I
was
supposed
to
do
this
and
they'll
fix
the
issue.
We
wouldn't
necessarily
track
that
the
the
indicator
of
that
would
be
that
we
didn't
have
to
go
back
right,
so
that
would
be
an
indication
of
willful
compliance
from
our
first
enforcement
effort
of
just
attendance
and
speaking
and
educating,
which
is
a
first
key
step
and
enforcement.
J
So
you
know
I
think
if
we
we
would
need
to
look
back
and
and
that's
where
the
data
analytics
will
be
very
helpful
and
and
be
able
to
articulate
the
level
of
recidivism
of
premises
based
on
our
enforcement
efforts.
A
little
bit
complicated
to
do
that
at
this
point
with
our
data,
but
I
think
you
know
we,
those
that
are
problems
are
going
to
continue
to
be
problems
and
we
have
a
suite
of
tools
to
address
them.
J
So
you
know,
we've
got
a
variety
of
tools
and,
as
indicated
law
enforcement
speci,
but
you
know
mostly,
we
have
people
who
are
good
business
operators
in
the
city,
people
who
want
to
comply
and
for
those
who
don't
then
that's
where
we
come
in
and
escalate
the
enforcement
as
appropriate.
It's
a
great
question
and
a
measure
that
I'm
gonna
hope
to
be
able
to
answer
as
we
advance
with
our
data
warehouse
project
and
case
management
and
business
systems.
Thank
You.
Mr.
G
A
C
Thank
you,
Thank
You,
mr.
chairman,
first
and
foremost
and
I
want
to
thank
the
Auditor
General
and
her
team
for
bringing
all
these
comprehensive
reports
with
excellent
recommendations.
Thank
you.
It's
and
one
of
the
great
things
is
that
our
Emily
staff.
They
have
embraced
those
recommendations
as
well
in
terms
of
implementation.
So
that's
a
great
way
to
start.
Also
I'd
like
to
compliment
my
members
of
counsel
from
the
licensure
standards
committee.
We
have
really
four.
We
don't
constitute
mr.
chairman
a
quorum
at
this
point
from
the
MLS,
but
I'm
glad
that
my.
H
C
Information,
difficult
decisions
that
overall,
is
this
committee,
the
municipal
isince,
in
deeds,
with
everything
under
the
Sun.
As
you
can
imagine,
we
have
gone
through
the
Piscean
through
review
the
hoover
debate,
the
holistic
industry
that
we're
talking
about
now.
They
cannabis
fine
and
the
food
truck
industry,
235
directives
either
that
came
through
City
Council
or
through
the
committee
or
members
of
cancer,
and
on
that,
mr.
C
chairman
members
of
council,
it's
extremely
important
to
understand
this
part
that
every
time
that
additional
reports
like
for
chickens
pilot
projects,
what
that
keeps
on
adding
more
pressure
to
them,
so
we
cannot
ask
them
the
impossible,
so
we
have
to
be
mindful
of
that
and
what
they
are
doing
and
what
they
have
done
is
to
create
the
world
plan
that
was
adopted
by
the
community
from
those
235
directives
to
bring
21
projects
and
to
cancel
and
I'm
very
confident.
That's
going
to
take
place.
C
I
know
that
there
has
been
some
pushback,
but
eventually
we
are
getting
there.
So
it's
a
very
exciting
committee
committee
to
deal
with.
It's
not
boring,
that's
for
sure.
Now.
The
problem
with
regard
to
what
we
are
dealing
here
with
is
that
they
bylaws
and
and
I'm
not
saying
that
bylaws
are
not
enforceable,
but
the
nature
of
some
of
the
bylaws
that
they
are
not
clear.
They
are
not
specific
and
improved
that
reason.
C
Somehow
they
are
not
enforceable
to
many
people
out
there,
especially
those
who
are
breaking
the
law
so
and
I
believe
that,
especially
when
it
comes
to
the
to
the
holistic
industry
and
I'm,
referring
more
to
the
illegal
the
there
are
so
many
names
within
those
categories.
But
the
illegal
bravo
rabbit.
I
C
The
illegal
activity
that
comes
along
with
it
in
terms
of
drug
dealing,
whatever
else,
because
that's
the
real
truth,
and
some
of
them
are
not
the
ones
who
are
licensed
under
the
existing
zoning
they
are
operating
from
wherever
they
are
allowed
by
the
little
ones.
They
are
opening
up
within
commercial,
strips
and
small
malls
where
they
are
going
undetectable
and
they
are
working
at
night.
These
are
not
legal
business.
When
you
have
some,
when
you
have
a
business
out
there
that
they
are
working
on
two
three
four
five
o'clock
in
the
morning
that
speaks
volumes.
C
At
during
all
hours
of
the
night,
disturbing
the
local
community
residential
communities,
that
leaves
a
lot
to
be
desired.
So
the
problem
is
from
the
perspective
in
terms
of
bringing
some
clarity
to
the
bylaws
bylaws
that
have
the
real
teeth
in
terms
of
enforcing
them.
It
has
money.
Talks
from
the
perspective
is
one
of
the
things
that
I
wanted
to
to
to
bring
forward.
C
Is
that
bars
and
that's
what
the
points
of
customs
here
was
talking
about
within
our
neighborhoods,
and
that
has
been
something
huge
within
the
MLS
within
the
alcohol
and
gaming
and
the
Toronto
Police
Services.
Now
that's
where
one
of
the
problems
remains
in
terms
of
noise
in
terms
of
prolly
Matic.
These
are
very
problematic
locations
that
this
is
more
bars
are
becoming
nightclubs.
C
They
open
at
night
and
they're
going
undetected
as
well,
without
any
civility
because
of
the
so
called
hours
of
operation
I've
been
told,
and
that
under
the
existing
legislation
they,
the
city
doesn't
have
the
ability
to
control
the
operation.
I
was
corrected,
I
believe
was
history
David.
The
Auditor
General,
who
mentioned
that
is
the
city,
does
have
the
ability
of
controlling
those
that
aspects
in
terms
of
they
also
operation.
So
that's
something
that
I
will
bring
forward
either
in
terms
of
a
motion
to
City
Council
to
deal
with
that
Thank
You.
Mr.
mr.
C
A
H
I
The
issue
it's
a
great
subject
to
us-
and
this
is
why
we're
all
here
and
I
want
to
thank
the
Auditor,
General
and
Melissa
for
working
through
the
difficulties,
however,
is
still
work
has
to
be
done.
I've
seen,
we
highlighted
some
issues,
such
as
the
issues
with
holistic,
robin
tuck.
So,
as
you
want
to
say
them,
you
outline
the
problem
of
restaurants
been
turning
into
nightclubs
a
night.
I
You
also
blind
through
the
problem
that
a
lot
of
these
restaurants
I've
have
a
lot
of
people
in
it
after
hours
and
certainly
something
that
an
accident
or
we
might
happen
and
thank
God
that
it
hasn't
happened
to
now
I've
heard
from
legal
staff
and
appreciate
where
they're
coming
from.
As
far
as
the
quote,
unquote
Charter
of
Rights
is
concerned
and
the
way
that
you
want
to
interpret
it.
I
There's
a
lot
of
interpretations
of
that
I
think
we
need
to
have
tools
that
allow
our
staff
MLS
staff
to
enter
businesses
or
premises
a
little
bit
more
readily
and
I
think
we
need
to
go
back
to
the
province
and
ask
for
those
rights
that
we
can
entered.
I.
Don't
think
we
need
to
signal
somebody
that
way.
There's
the
investigation
is
ongoing.
Certainly
the
police
not
coming
and
signal
you
that
what
they
want
to
talk
to
you.
I
If
there's
a
murderer
and
say
we
want
to
talk
to
you
about
the
murder
and
your
suspect
about
being
a
murder.
Certainly
they
don't
do
that
and
overall,
when
we
thank
the
staff
for
bringing
here.
However,
there's
challenges
and
things
that
we
need
to
move
ahead,
we
need
to
make
sure
that
MLS
has
the
right
tools,
be
it
computer
wise,
be
it
reporting
wise
biet
reporting
with
other
departments.
I
Those
are
the
things
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
the
department's
talk
among
themselves
and
and
we
break
down
those
silos,
although
that
we
do
have
the
3-1-1
process
and
people
can
report
to
that,
I
think
the
need
to
be
able
to
interactively
look
for
the
staff
of
MLS
or
the
Buildings
Department
to
interactively
look
at
a
site
and
signal.
It
should
be
something
that
it
has
to
be
done.
The
process
of
merging
those
two
I
mean
merging
the
reporting
system
has
to
be
engaged
reporting.
A31
one
has
to
do.
I
Something
should
happen.
Something
happened
there.
We
need
to
make
sure
that
people's
lives,
we're
not
dealing
here
with
someone.
That's
breaking
the
law,
because
they're
selling,
a
hot
dog
hot
dog
stand
outside
we're
dealing
with
people's
life
and
that's
immense
and
and
I
have
to
tell
you.
The
staff
of
MLS
has
done
a
wonderful
work,
looking
forward
for
them
to
be
able
to
do
more
and
I
guess.
There's
the
vice-chair
of
licensing
standards
with
my
chair
here.
I
A
K
You
three
mr.
chair:
first,
my
my
thanks
to
our
Auditor
General
and
her
staff
for
doing
this
investigation,
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
do
as
an
accountability
office
and
to
review
the
department
with
the
goal
of
helping
that
department
helping
us
as
elected
officials,
do
our
jobs,
and
certainly
my
first
read
of
the
report.
I
think
for
me
was
a
good
one,
because,
while
there
I
think
seven
recommend
main
recommendations,
there
was
nothing
in
there.
That
surprised
me
and
hence
my
question
to
our
senior
staff.
K
Is
your:
are
there
things
here
that
surprised
you,
and
the
answer
is
no
so
I
interpret
that
as
this
is
a
good
report,
because
if
there
were
some
shocking
revelations,
some
major
their
mismanagement
or
issues
not
being
addressed,
then
we
have
to
take
some
more
significant
corrective
action.
But
here
I
think
the
Auditor
General
has
confirmed
what
many
of
us
know
a
city
councillors,
and
certainly
our
enforcement
staff
is
that
the
old
saying
that
we
spend
90%
of
our
time
with
10%
of
the
clients
is
probably
true.
K
Most
people
who
run
any
type
of
business
in
the
city
of
Toronto,
any
type
of
restaurant
or
a
nightclub,
even
a
massage
parlor
they're
legitimate
business
people
trying
to
provide
a
service
for
the
public,
but
there
are
those,
maybe
five
percent
that
cause
us.
Ninety
five
percent
of
our
grief.
There
are
people
who
know
our
bylaws
right
from
the
beginning.
Like
the
Auditor
General
said
they
actually
read
our
bylaws
very
carefully
to
figure
out
how
to
get
around
them,
how
to
violate
them
without
getting
caught.
K
They
actually
use
our
staff
resources
when
they
come
into
our
office
and
they'll
say
to
the
inspector.
Well,
if
I'm
breaking
the
law,
how
can
I
avoid
breaking
the
law
and
our
staff
are
sort
of
obliged
to
tell
them
while
you're
breaking
the
law,
because
you're
doing
one
two
three
and
the
bad
owners
will
say.
So
if
I
don't
do
one
and
I
don't
do
two
and
I
sort
of
sort
of
don't
do
three?
Can
you
can
you
find
me
and
our
officers
have
to
say?
K
K
If
you
are
an
owner
of
a
variety
store
or
a
restaurant,
and
you
are
out
of
compliance,
we
want
to
bring
you
into
compliance
because
90%
of
the
people
are
following
the
law
and
want
to
be
good
citizens,
so
I
say,
share
the
same
frustration
as
my
colleagues.
I
differ,
in
my
opinion,
with
our
senior
staff
to
some
degree,
I
think
on
recommendation
number
7.
It
talks
about
doing
a
work
plan
review
for
2018
I
actually
do
think.
K
Tell
that
to
the
mother
who
came
to
our
committee
and
testified
that
her
daughter's
face
was
ripped
off
by
a
dangerous
dog
that
girl
is
scarred
for
life,
because
I
don't
want
to
call
it
a
flaw,
but
there
is
a
sigma,
we'll
call
it.
A
father
is
an
auditor
general's
report
about
it.
There
is
a
situation
where
we
didn't
have
perhaps
I'll
call
it
the
very
best
practice
we
could
have
had
in
terms
of
animal
welfare,
that
was
animal
welfare,
bylaws
protect
the
animals
and
they
protect
us
the
public
from
dangerous
animals.
K
Sometimes
so
you
know,
when
we
talk
about
rooming
houses.
Is
that
a
priority
or
not
I
can
tell
you
if
you,
if
you
are
representing
somebody
who
lives
next
to
a
rooming
house
and
who
has
those
behaviors
that
we
know
that
are
not
reasonable.
The
the
urinating
in
the
backyard,
the
garbage,
the
fistfights
on
the
front
lawn,
the
the
leering
at
people,
the
whistling
and
the
cat
calls
a
rooming
house
is
a
really
big
deal
to
you.
If
you
happen
to
be
living
next
to
one.
K
If
you
don't
live
next
to
one
rooming
houses,
let's
put
it
in
a
report
and
report
back
in
a
year
to
two
years
from
now,
so
I
do
think
we
need
some
more
resources.
I
look
at
the
work
we
do
and
I'll
just
use
the
example
of
the
rent
safe
program
that
we
just
adopted.
I
think
that's
one
of
the
most
profound
pieces
of
legislation
we've
done
in
terms
of
its
impact
on
the
quality
of
life
of
our
friends
and
our
neighbors
that
took
I'll
call
it
a
mount
a
massive
amount
of
time.
K
So,
when
I
see
the
importance
of
what
we're
doing
each
and
every
one
of
those
items,
I
look
at
the
body
rub
parlors
and
people
sort
of
chuck,
you
know
sometimes
giggle
and
shrug
their
shoulders
and
I
say
you
know
what
I
actually
don't
get
a
lot
of
complaints
about
the
massage
parlors
in
my
ward,
most
of
the
men
going
into
them,
don't
want
to
be
seen.
They
go
in
quietly,
they
locker
room,
they
do
their
business
and
they
leave
so
even
in
my
plazas,
where
I
have
a
massage
parlor
in
a
day
care
center.
K
Just
few
doors
from
each
other
I
don't
get
a
lot
of
complaints,
but
I
do
know
there
are
people
working
in
those
establishments
that
need
the
protection
and
the
oversight
that
they
don't
have
today.
So
I
would
say
to
our
staff
and
I'll
conclude
by
saying
I
appreciate
the
report.
It
it's
very
good
for
all
of
us
to
to
have
this
sober
second
thought
about
what
we're
doing,
but
I
do
think
our
department
needs
some
more
resources
to
make
sure
we
can
get
more
reports
to
our
committee
faster.
Thank
you.
Thank.
G
N
N
We
need
to
do
because
constituents
get
fed
up
and
frustrated
because
when
there's
a
complaint
that
comes
in-
and
you
wait
six
months-
seven
months
a
year-
two
years-
three
years,
because
if
it's
a
legal
rooming
house
all
these
issues
because
it
continues
going
to
court
and
the
court
date
is
delayed
because
they
hire
even
these
illegal
establishments.
They
have
money
to
hire
big-time
lawyers
and
these
lawyers
go
in
and
keep
delaying
the
courts
assistant
and
it
goes
on
and
on
and
it's
frustrating
and
we're
spending.
So
much
of
our
resources.
N
N
You
know
a
lot
of
them
a
lot
of
these
complaints
that
come
in
if
our
inspector
goes
out
and
gives
them
a
notice,
they
they
clean
up,
they
clean
up
and
they
abide
and-
and
they
do
that,
but
some
of
them
don't
and
those
are
the
ones
that
we
have.
We
continue
to
have
problems
with.
We,
you
know,
it's
always
been.
My
opinion.
N
Is
that
I
like
to
be
I,
think
we
need
to
be
aggressive
zero-tolerance
really
because
it
doesn't
help
and
and
we're
spending
so
much
money
on
on
resources
and
that
you
know
we're
not
getting
it
just
continues
and
continues.
You
know
there
are
certain
things
that
the
counselors
could
do
that
our
inspectors
can
do.
N
We
can
go
to
a
problem
area
and
we
see
a
graduate
is
prostitution
drugs
in
that
and
we
can
yell
at
though
the
owner
and
say
you
tear
that
garage
down
by
tomorrow
or
I'm
back
here
and
you're
gonna
get
a
huge
fine.
The
next
day,
I
go
there.
That
garage
is
demolished
because
they're,
petrified
I
know
our
inspectors
can't
do
that
because
they
have
to
be
nice,
but
we
don't
have
to
be
nice.
I
N
A
A
B
I
have
a
motion
to
amend,
recommendation,
7
and
just
add,
as
part
of
an
overall
review
of
the
city's
inspections
and
enforcement
activities.
I
have
spoken
to
the
chief
transformation
officer
about
this
and
he's
okay
with
it
I
think,
because
we
are
very
siloed
in
this
city
and
we
do
have
different
departments
that
do
inspections
and
enforcement
I
know
a
lot
of
them
are
already
looking
at
this,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
that
it
stated
out
that
the
transformation
officer
looks
at
it.
You
know
we
can
learn
from
other
departments.
B
We
can
use
best
practices
and
and
even
from
a
technology
standpoint,
get
on
the
same
page
about
different
issues,
different
addresses,
even
if
there
are
multiple
issues
with
a
single
address,
we
can
all
see,
what's
what's
going
on
there
in
each
division,
just
streamline
processes
and
and
make
sure
that
that
our
residents
tax
dollars
are
using
being
used
stretching
as
far
as
we
can
stretch
them.
So
I
ask
for
your
support
on
this
Thanks.
Thank.
A
You
I'm
going
to
speak
myself
very
briefly,
I'll
just
say
a
couple
of
things.
First,
of
course
thank
you
to
the
entire
audit
team
for
their
work
on
this
report.
I
can
imagine
all
imagine
what
you
went
through
to
go
through
all
of
the
details
that
you
had
to
go
through
to
get
to
this
point,
but
sometimes
it's
important
to
put
down
on
paper
things
that
either
as
counselors
we
had
experienced
through
our
dealings
with
our
constituents
or
perhaps
had
a
very
informed
suspicion
that
that
were
concerns.
A
It
creates
a
step
for
a
platform
to
take
the
next
step.
I,
of
course,
also
want
to
thank
the
entire
MLS
department
and
all
of
the
people
and
the
managers
and
frontline
people
that
I
work
with
as
a
counselor
on
a
daily
basis,
because,
as
a
counselor
Annunziata
mentioned,
you
know,
MLS
and
bylaw
issues
are
like.
If
it's
not
the
top
item,
it's
got
to
be
the
number-two
item
that
crosses
a
councilors
desk.
A
I
know
this
I
keep
track
of
it
and
I
call
it
the
human
division,
because
it's
all
about
humans
and
people
interacting
with
each
other
and
conflict,
and
it
makes
it
really
really
sensitive.
The
citizens
of
the
city
expect
there
to
be
societal
standards
and
they
look
at
members
of
council
to
implement
those.
A
Hey,
we
just
threw
backyard
chickens
into
the
mix.
You
know
right
off
the
top
of
last
council
meeting,
and
so
I
can
only
just
appreciate
the
challenges
part
of
me
that
that
entire
division
faces
with
all
of
the
demands
placed
on
it
by
councillors
by
society
by
changing
external
factors.
The
one
thing
I'm
not
sure
we
can
do
is
just
keep
throwing
resources
at
it.
You
know
it
it
would
just
consume
everything.
A
I
think
there
is
a
lot
of
hope
in
here,
because
it
talks
about
transformation
and
about
changing
the
process
from
a
very
large
and
high
level,
and
I'm
really
excited
about
that,
because
I
know
how
sense
of
this
Senate's
sensitive.
This
is
to
citizens,
it
maybe
quiet
the
process
that
unfolds,
but
the
outcome
I
think
will
be
really
really
important
for
how
people
perceive
their
government
how
they
are
confident
in
their
government
and
confident
in
their
governments.
A
A
you
know,
ability
to
follow
up
on
those
standards
and
the
one
small
remark
that
I'll
make
that
I
hope
gets
integrated
in
this
and
speaking
of
building
and
building
steps.
You
know,
I
I
really
hope
that
there's
a
look
at
all
of
the
activities
that
we've
got
in
the
city
and
in
thinking
about
how
you
integrate
mls
into
that
process.
So
I
think
about
the
building
department.
Somebody
comes
in
with
a
great
idea:
they
want
to
build
something
they
want
to
build
a
nightclub.
Maybe
they
want
to
build
a
holistic
center.
A
That
information
comes
across
the
building's
departments
desk
and
they
they
do
their
job.
Well,
they
go
through
this.
They
look
for
code
standards,
they
deal
with
the
fire
department,
the
deal
with
Planning
and
Zoning
matters,
and
that
gets
all
dealt
with
and
then
the
product
is
created
and
that
you
know
maybe
that
takes
a
year
or
two
to
go
through
that
process.
Well,
the
product
is
created
and
there's
MLS.
That
now
needs
to
look
at
it
and
manage
it
on
behalf
of
the
citizens
of
the
city
for
the
next
hundred
years.
A
So
any
way
that
we
can
involve
MLS
into
the
upfront
planning
process
in
these
applications
and
when
these
spaces
are
created
and
defined
on
a
permanent
basis,
I
think
is
a
good
thing.
I,
don't
think,
there's
an
easy
answer
or
solution
to
that
and
I
know
that
some
of
that
work
actually
goes
on
right
now,
but
it's
my
hope
that
there
will
be
more
of
that
happening,
and
that's
really
just
my
comments
on
this
I
think
it's
great
work
and
I
look
forward
to
it.
Continuing.
A
A
A
A
F
I'd
like
to
introduce
Jerry
shovel
he's
a
senior
adviser
to
our
office,
he's
a
former
assistant,
Donna,
turd,
general
and
I
know
Jana's
assistant,
Auditor,
General
I,
just
by
way
of
an
overview
we
received
into
our
office
and
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline,
a
complaint
that
that
potentially
building
permits
were
receiving
the
amount
of
development
charges
that
should
have
been
received.
So
we
took
a
look
at
the
area.
F
We
didn't
find
fraud
at
all,
so
we
want
to
be
clear
about
that,
but
we
found
opportunities
to
improve
the
process
so
that
going
forward
when
DC
charges
are
levered
are
in
place.
There's
an
opportunity
to
actually
for
the
city
to
fairly
receive
more
monies
to
be
dedicated
to
growth,
so
Jerry.
If
you
would,
please
provide
the
presentation
as.
B
Madam
Auditor
General's
indicated
we
initiated
this
review
of
conditional
permits
as
a
result
of
a
complaint
made
to
the
phone
waste
hotline.
The
complaint
is
on
the
site,
but
what
I
really
wanted
to
highlight
is
our
work
related
to
the
complaint
identified
issues
in
a
sample
of
continual
permits
issued
between
2012
and
2016,
and
the
intent
of
this
report
is
really
to
look
forwards
and
to
provide
recommendations
to
strengthen
Toronto
buildings
process
for
issuing
and
monitoring
conditional
permits
going
forward.
B
Why
it's
important
to
address
our
findings
in
moving
forward
is
that
development
charges
represent
a
significant
source
of
revenue
for
the
city,
so
they
help
to
pay
for
roads,
transit
parks,
recreation
and
water
and
other
infrastructure
needed
to
service
growth
from
development.
Essentially,
growth
is
paying
for
growth
where
the
collective
development
charges
revenues
are
insufficient
to
fund
growth,
related
infrastructure
needs,
funding
will
need
to
come
from
other
sources,
so
if
doesn't
fully
pay
for
growth,
taxpayers
across
the
city
may
pay
through
increases
in
property
taxes.
B
B
The
purpose
of
a
conditional
permit
is
to
allow
for
construction
to
proceed,
even
though
there
may
be
outstanding
issues
preventing
the
issuance
of
a
full
permit.
The
chief
building
official
has
the
authority
to
enter
into
conditional
permit
agreements
that
allow
construction
to
move
forward
while
protecting
the
city's
interests.
B
The
chief
building
official
may,
in
her
discretion,
issue
conditional
permits
for
any
stage
of
construction.
However,
under
the
law
the
project's
must
meet
zoning
requirements.
The
chief
building
official
must
be
of
the
opinion
that
unreasonable
delays
in
construction
would
occur
if
the
permit
was
not
issued
and
a
conditional
permit
agreement
must
be
in
place.
The
chief
building
official
is
not
is
under
no
obligation
to
issue
a
conditional
permit,
and
the
permit
applicant
has
no
right
of
appeal.
Should
a
conditional
permit
not
be
issued,
Toronto
building
does
have
a
conditional
permit
policy
in
place.
B
This
policy
specifies
tasks
to
be
completed
before
issuing
the
conditional
permit.
However,
the
policy
does
not
contain
any
objective
or
criteria
for
when
to
issue
above-grade
conditional
permits
in
mid-2016
Toronto
building
developed
guidelines
that
do
outline
criteria
for
determining
the
appropriate
timing
for
issuing
conditional
permits.
These
guidelines
can
help
to
ensure
that
all
developers
are
treated
consistently
and
fairly,
but
we
should
know
that
the
criteria
are
still
in
draft
form
and
we're
not
in
use
by
the
division
during
the
period
covered
by
our
review
for
large
projects.
B
Toronto
Building,
typically
issues
partial
permits
for
stages
of
constructions,
starting
with
below
grade
permits
and
then
moving
on
to
above
Rea
permits
as
construction
proceeds
issuing
the
first
of
great
permit,
conditional
or
otherwise
is
a
critical
milestone.
This
is
when
the
amount
of
development
charges
is
calculated
and
payable,
and
also
the
date
when
other
fees
and
charges
like
parkland
levies
and
education
development
charges
become
due
minimizing
development
charges
can
be
a
motivator
for
getting
an
above
grade
conditional
permit
as
early
as
possible.
B
So
with
this
slide
here,
we
just
wanted
to
set
some
context
for
the
scope
of
our
review.
This
was
not
an
audit.
Rather,
we
selected
a
sample
across
all
four
districts
covering
five
different
managers
to
determine
whether
the
hotline
complaint
was
substantiated
in
the
absence
of
any
other
objective
criteria
in
the
Building
Code
Act
and
Toronto
buildings,
own
conditional
permit
policy,
we
use
the
draft
guidelines
as
the
benchmark
by
which
we
evaluated
this
sample
of
conditional
permits.
Jerry
Schwab
was
going
to
take
you
through
the
findings
and
recommendations.
D
Good
morning
mr.
chairmembers
nice
to
see
everyone
again,
I'm
gonna,
take
you
through
the
findings
and
the
recommendations.
So
we've
broken
our
findings
down
into
three
different
categories.
First,
his
efforts
to
encourage
conditional
permits.
The
second
is
the
use
of
subjective
versus
objective
permit
issuance
criteria,
the
15
sites
we
reviewed
paid
about
thirty
million
dollars
in
development
charges,
and
we
estimate
if
we
use
the
draft
criteria
objective
criteria.
These
would
have
been
about
eight
million
dollars
higher
and
the
third
category
is
the
need
to
improve
monitoring
and
enforcement
of
conditional
permit
agreements.
D
F
In
mind
also
that
five
files
were
referred
to
us
and
there
were
issues
in
those
and
the
other
ten
we
selected
on
a
judgment
basis
because
of
that
mix.
We
didn't
project
our
findings,
so
it's
not
reasonable
to
assume
you
know.
Eight
out
of
eight
at
a
thirty
million
projected
would
be
the
actual
overall
I
mean
some
of
those
were
referred
to
us,
but
what
we
can
say
the
issues
around
the
controls
and
the
ability
to
administer
in
a
different
manner.
Is
there
and-
and
it
could
be-
you
know
significance
so.
D
On
issue
category
one
relates
to
encouraging
and
expediting
a
conditional
permits.
We
noted
that
staff
prepare
a
list
of
sites
that
have
a
pending
DC
increase
and
that
should
be
contacted.
Those
sites
are
contacted
and
advised
that
there's
a
pending
DC
increase
and
suggest
that
they
may
want
to
apply
for
a
CP
if
they
want
to
get
ahead
of
that
increase.
We
also
noted
in
stock
performance
planners
at
saving
developers,
development
charges
was
indicated
as
an
achievement
or
an
accomplishment.
D
F
Just
coming
on
that,
when
developers
are
ready
for
the
conditional
permit,
it
should
be
issued.
There's
there's
no
doubt
about
that.
It
should
know
what
we're
recommending
here
is
not
a
slowdown
in
any
way.
If
they're
ready
issue
it,
what
we're
questioning
is
the
opportunity
to
go
to
look
at
when
developers
are
ready
and
Jerry
will
have
some
examples
so.
D
The
our
second
category
is
the
lack
of
objective
criteria
and
the
impact
it
has,
and
apparently
prematurely
issued,
conditional
permits
and
I
want
to
stress
what
ina
mentioned
earlier
in
fairness
to
the
division.
I
want
to
emphasize
that
we
were
using
draft
criteria
that
were
not
enforced
at
the
time.
Those
permits
were
issued
at
the
time
of
the
15
items
that
we
reviewed.
D
F
Of
the
recommendations
going
forward
is,
when
you
have
a
program
such
as
this
make
sure
you
draft
the
objective
criteria
against
which
everybody
is
going
to
be
measured.
There's
a
15-year
delay
with
the
policy
that
was
in
place
technically,
yes
in
compliance,
but
in
our
view
some
of
the
people
have
been
ready.
So
it's
important
to
have
an
administrative
criteria
to
benchmark
against
for
staff.
F
D
So
this
is
just
to
give
you
an
idea
of
what
we're
looking
at
I
found
it
helpful
to
have
a
picture
of
what
we're
looking
at,
so
this
site
was
issued
an
above
grade
conditional
permit,
16
months
before
this
picture
was
taken.
The
big
wall
that
you
see
is
shoring,
and
you
can
see
it's
there's
still
some
shoring
to
be
done
on
one
side.
This
building
is
to
have
four
levels
of
underground
parking
and
above
grade,
obviously
is
the
top
of
where
the
shoring
is
so.
D
They've
still
got
a
ways
to
go
before
they
get
to
the
point
where
they'll
need
to
do
above
grade
work
and
the
key
criteria
we're
using
in
the
draft
policy
States
site
construction
must
be
at
parking
level
1
and
in
a
construction
position
to
proceed
above
grade.
That's
the
criteria
for
assuring
and
above
grade
the
draft
criteria.
Permission
above
Firmin
the
point
at
which
the
D
Caesar
sent
Jerry.
D
On
the
first
one,
this
one
is
different:
both
I
have
references
to
the
table
on
the
picture.
This
is
just
another
example
cite
this
above
great
Berman
was
issued
two
years
before
this
picture
was
taken
and
clearly
nothing's
happened.
We
don't
know
what
the
circumstances
were
at
the
time
the
permit
was
issued,
but
it
doesn't
appear
that
there
are
unreasonable
delays.
D
C
D
Yes
to
choose
all
I
don't
have
pictures
as
always,
so
this
this
one
again
is
repeated
from
our
report
and
it
just
shows
the
spike
in
permit
applications
and
issuance
immediately
before
a
development
charge
increase
and
those
development
charges
increases
during
this
period.
We're
quite
significant.
As
we
mentioned
the
report
over
the
five-year
period,
the
development
charges
increased
about
71
percent
and
it
was
phased
in
over
two
years
on
four
different
increased
dates.
D
So
the
lack
of
a
recommendation
for
issue
category
two
are
for
the
division:
to
move
from
subjective
to
objective
conditional,
permit
issuance
criteria
improved
due
diligence
when
issuing
conditional
permits
and
document
what
is
being
done.
And
why
and
again,
just
to
reiterate,
with
the
other
general
said,
the
chief
building
official
has
the
right
and
the
authority
to
issue
conditional
building
permits
if
these
conditions
under
the
building
product-
and
this
is
not
to
limit
or
impinge
on
that
discretion.
D
D
We
noted
numerous
instances
of
conditions
not
being
met
and
in
some
pages
of
above
grade
permits,
including
permission
conditions
preventing
below
grade
construction
before
certain
criteria
were
met,
such
as
agreement
approvals
from
divisions
such
as
Toronto
water
in
the
Toronto
Transit
Commission
in
relation
to
consistency,
a
standard
clause
and
most
of
the
agreements
is
that
construction
must
seriously
begin
within
20
days.
12
of
our
15
sample
items
had
this
clause,
but
only
three
had
an
inspection
around
the
20
day
mark
to
see
if
there
was
compliance
with
that
Clause
I've.
D
Given
the
delays,
we
note
in
the
table
that
you
saw
in
a
previous
slide.
It
seems
that
this
it's
apparent,
this
condition
is
not
regularly
met.
Divisional
staff
advised,
but
they're
looking
at
this
condition,
they're
not
sure
that
it's
the
right
time
frame
and
they're
looking
at
revising
that
kind
of
condition.
The
third
point
here
is
that
development
charges
and
parkland
levies
are
meant
to
be
collected
before
a
permit
is
issued
unless
there
is
an
agreement
on
development
charges
to
the
contrary.
For
for
parkland
levies.
D
D
To
recap:
we
identify
these
three
categories
of
issues
moving
forward.
We
think
there's
a
need
to
balance
customer
service
with
administrative
fairness
and
consistency
on
permit
issuance.
The
division
has
taken
initial
steps
to
move
towards
more
objective
criteria,
but
needs
to
finalize
and
implement
revised
measures.
Finally,
there's
a
need
for
consistency
and
monitoring
enforcement
pressures
on
this
front
should
decline
with
more
diligence
on
permit
issuance.
B
In
conclusion,
this
report
contains
17
recommendations,
along
with
management's
response
to
each
management,
agrees
with
our
recommendations
and
has
identified
a
plan
to
implement
them.
They
further
agree
that
there
are
concerns
raised
in
the
report
that
need
to
be
addressed
and
so
going
forward.
The
implementation
of
policies
that
set
some
objective
criteria
for
the
issuance
of
conditional
permits,
the
equable,
equitable
treatment
of
applicants
and
the
street
thinning
of
the
monitoring
and
enforcement
of
conditional
permit
agreements
will
be
addressed.
B
F
Just
gonna
add
one
more
comment:
if
I
may
there's
only
two
that
were
outside
the
law
of
to
where
the
zoning
had
to
be
in
place,
the
remainder
would
benefit
from
a
better
policy
going
forward
and
so
that
I
just
wanna
make
that
distinction.
It's
not
that
all
of
these
are
are
wrong
under
the
law.
It's
simply
that
to
tour,
but
the
remainder
with
the
objective
criteria
that
are
in
place
and
using
that
and
a
go
forward
basis,
certainly
there's
more
fairness
and
more
DC
revenue.
L
D
What
we've
seen
is
that
they
they
make
an
effort
to
prepare
a
list
of
developers
that
would
be
affected
by
the
DC
increase,
notifying
those
developers,
landowners
of
the
pending
increase
and
indicate
they
see
requesting
if
they,
if
they
want
to
apply
for
CP,
if
they're
ready
to
apply
for
a
conditional
permit.
So.
L
Mr.
chair
there's
a
compliments
of
the
two
things
that
are
happening
here.
We've
got
a
building
becomes
aware
of
a
DC
change
and
certain
date
that's
going
to
be
enacted,
and
so
staff
I
think
are
required
to
give
notice
to
the
outstanding
permit
holders
that
that
amount
is
coming
and
so
as
not
to
have
the
situation
on
the
next
day.
They
discover
something
has
gone
up
and
they
they
weren't
aware
of
it.
So
we
take
an
extra
step
to
make
sure
people
are
aware
of
the
pending
changes
in
the
DC's
calculations.
L
We
calculate
and
I
could
have
surely
elaborate
more
fully.
We
calculate
the
amount
of
eligible
costs
that
can
be
attributed
to
the
number
of
units
that
we
have.
We
come
to
it
with
a
calculation
that
forms
the
basis
for
the
current
and
then
the
future
changes
to
the
to
the
to
the
DC
bylaw.
So
when
we
go
to
collect,
we
do
it
on
the
basis
of
an
estimate
of
the
number
of
applications
that
we
have.
It's
an
estimate
and
when
that's
completed,
there's
a
review
and
the
next
bylaw
that
next
file
looks
at
the
cost.
K
L
With
all
due
respect,
I'm
just
gonna
pause
you
there,
because
a
lot
of
time
has
been
taken
up
and
I
appreciate
the
the
advice
that
you're
providing,
but
but
my
question
was
really
in
particular
about
does
in
most
cases
with
the
development
charges
ever
cover
the
amount
of
money
that
actually
goes
out
from
the
city
to
service.
The
infrastructure
needed
for
developments,
whether
it
be
one
in
particular
or
general
in
general
I
mean,
is
that
I'm
just
kind
of
trying
to
get
there.
H
L
So
the
answer
is
generally:
yes,
the
development
charge
scheme
is
calculated
on
at
intervals
and
those
intervals
take
into
account
all
the
changes
that
have
occurred
in
the
past
period
and
look
at
the
projections.
You
know
they've
cover
the
necessary
infrastructure
according
to
the
act
and
according
to
what's
eligible.
Yes,
who.
L
I
would
have
been
surprised
at
every
question
for
mr.
Andalusia.
Would
you
would
you
mind?
I
just
want
to
provide
you
with
an
opportunity
to
comment
on
some
of
the
comments
that
were
made
before
with
respect
to
the
the
premature
conditional
permits
issued
or
any
other
matter.
Whoever
realized.
Sorry
excuse
me,
whoever
would
like
to
respond
to
that.
It's
the
last
question,
though,
thank.
M
The
chair,
what
I
can
tell
you
is
that
when
staff
are
making
decisions
to
issue
a
conditional
permit,
the
staff
are
looking
at.
So
the
auditor-general
was
recognized
that
the
permits
that
she
reviewed
on
the
policy
that
was
in
place
at
the
time
that
that
was
followed
appropriately,
with
the
exception
of
to
where
there
may
have
been
an
issue
with
respect
to
zoning.
M
But
what
I
can
tell
you
is
that,
when
staff
for
making
that
decision,
they're
looking
at
the
requirements
of
the
act
and
they're
asking
the
developer
to
actually
give
their
reasons
as
to
why
they
need
their
development,
eaten
either
built
or
conditional
permit,
so
that
we
can
issue
it.
And
all
of
that
information
is
taken
into
account
for
the
chief
building
official
to
make
her
decision.
Thanks.
A
L
A
There
any
forms
or
templates
or
letters
that
an
applicant
signs
when
they
submit
an
application
that
would
be
appropriate
to
mark
write
on
them.
These
are
the
scheduled,
DC
changes
that
we
know
about
at
least
in
that
they
have
been
approved,
or
does
that
already
exist?
Can
we
build
it
right
on
the
forum.
M
To
you,
mr.
chair,
the
forum
doesn't
specifically
address
that,
but
what
you
will
see
in
the
report
that
management
has
looked
at
what's
a
way
that
we
can
actually
have
administrative
fairness,
so
that
we
can
let
all
of
the
applicants
know
of
these
changes
and
so
moving
forward.
What
we're
looking
at
is
for
opportunities
to
provide
that
notice
in
a
consistent
and
fair
way.
My.
A
Next
question
is
to
the
auditor
and
the
auditor
team
I
found
that
there's
that
there's
a
difference
between
being
proactive
from
a
customer
service
perspective
and
going
further
than
that
and
actually
soliciting
people
to
submit
an
application
for
a
conditional
permit.
Did
your
team
have
a
specific
finding
on
that,
or
is
it
just
I
took
there
were
some
sample
emails
I?
A
I
guess
the
last
question
is
in
looking
there's
a
chart
in
the
report
that
shows
the
the
spike
in
activity
just
prior
to
a
DC
change
and
it
no
surprise
right.
The
applicants
are
going
to
make
a
mad
dash
for
the
finish
line,
because
this
is
a
significant
amount
of
money.
It's
got
to
have
a
log
jam
impact
on
city
staff
and
when
you,
when
you
crush
everything
into
a
small
amount
of
time
and
space,
it's
got
to
be
much
harder
for
for
city
staff
teams
to
manage
these
to
make
sure
everything
is
just
perfect.
A
M
To
the
chair
once
again,
what
you
will
see
in
the
report
is
that
management
has
agreed,
with
the
recommendation
of
the
auditor
to
look
at
ways
to
actually
mitigate
that
issue.
What
I
would
like
to
say,
though,
is
that
whenever
there's
any
regulatory
change,
that
is
typical
is
its
typical
and
any
regulatory
change
that
you
will
see
an
influx
of
applications
at
that
time,
so
seeing
them
with
respect
to
development
charges
isn't
a
surprise
to
us,
but
moving
forward.
M
B
City
council
direct
that
a
copy
of
the
Auditor
General's
report,
headed
Toronto,
Building
division,
conditional
permits
be
forwarded
to
the
chief
transformation
officer,
with
a
request
that
he
consider
the
report
as
part
of
the
end-to-end
review
of
the
development
review
process.
So
this
is
something
that
he
is
chairing
the
working
group
for
the
intend
review
and,
as
was
suggested
during
the
presentation
that
this
be
forwarded
to
him
and
to
consider.
A
Very
much
are
there
any
other
speakers
to
the
item
saying
none.
We
will
consider
this
amendment
here,
everyone's
comfortable
with
it
all
those
in
favor.
Take
that
as
unanimous.
The
item
is
amended,
all
those
in
favor
I
take.
That
is
unanimous,
so
we've
got
nine
minutes.
Left
I'll
put
it
to
the
committee.
If
you
would
like
to
hear
the
auditor's
presentation,
we
might
be
squeezing
it
in
pretty
tight
on
nine
minutes.