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From YouTube: Audit Committee - February 7, 2018
Description
Audit Committee, meeting 11, February 7, 2018
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=13708
Meeting Navigation:
0:06:02 - Call to order
Agenda Items:
0:09:06 - AU11.1 - 2017 Annual Report - Demonstrating the Value of the Auditor General’s Office (Ward All)
0:43:15 - AU11.2 - 2017 Annual Report on the Fraud and Waste Hotline (Ward All)
1:16:55 - AU11.3 - IT Infrastructure and IT Asset Management Review: Phase 1: Establishing an Information Technology Roadmap to Guide the Way Forward for Infrastructure and Asset Management (Ward All)
0:07:18 - AU11.4 - Auditor General’s 2018 Status Report on Outstanding Audit Recommendations for Divisions in Cluster A and the City Manager’s Office (Ward All)
0:08:14 - AU11.5 - Award of Request for Proposal 9171-17-7291 to Welch LLP for External Audit Services for City Arenas, Community Centres and Miscellaneous Entities (Ward All)
0:08:45 - AU11.6 - Compliance Audit of Waterfront Toronto Contribution Agreements (Ward All)
A
Good
morning,
everybody
thank
you
for
making
it
in
through
the
snow
today
welcome
to
the
11th
meeting
of
the
audit
committee
and
we
have
quorum
present
and
therefore
I
call
this
meeting
to
order.
May
I
ask:
are
there
any
declarations
of
interest?
Please
indicate
the
item
number
and
the
nature
of
the
interest.
Seeing
none
I
will
now
take
a
motion
to
confirm
the
minutes
from
October
27th
2017
counselor
for
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed.
A
That's
carried
we'll
now
go
through
the
items
and
I
will
note
that
on
item
a
you
11.1
the
2017
annual
report
demonstrating
the
value
of
the
Auditor
General's
Office,
we
have
a
presentation
and
we
have
a
speaker,
a
you,
11.2
2017
annual
report
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
We
have
a
presentation
and
a
speaker,
a
you,
11.3
IT
infrastructure
and
IT
asset
management,
review,
phase,
1,
establishing
an
information
technology
roadmap
to
guide
the
way
forward
for
infrastructure
and
asset
management.
Anyone
wishing
to
hold
that
item-
yes,
I'll
hold
it.
Sir.
A
Thank
you,
a
you,
11.4
Auditor
General's
2018
status
report
on
outstanding
audit
recommendations
for
divisions
in
cluster
a
and
the
city
manager's
office.
Before
I
suggest
any
holds
on
that
I
would
ask
that
the
member
of
council
identify
the
particular
sub
component
of
the
report
so
that
the
staff
that
need
to
respond
to
that
can
self
identify
and
make
himself
available.
When
the
item
comes
up.
Are
there
any
holes
on
that
item?
A
Thank
You
councillor
Hart,
and
that
is
that
City
Council
received
this
report
for
information
and
that
City
Council
not
authorized
the
public
release
of
the
confidential
information
contained
and
confidential
attachment
number
one,
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed
that
is
carried
au,
11.5
award
of
request
for
Proposal
9,
171,
17,
7,
9,
1,
welch,
LLP
for
external
audit
services
for
city
arenas,
community
centers
and
miscellaneous
entities.
Anyone
wishing
to
hold
that
item
may
have
a
motion
to
adopt
that
item.
A
All
those
in
favor
any
opposed,
that's
carried
in
AU
11.6
compliance,
audit
of
Waterfront
Toronto
contribution
agreements
there.
Any
members
wishing
to
hold
that
item
may
I
have
a
motion
that
audit
committee
received
this
report
for
information,
Kassar
Matt
Lowe,
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed
that
is
carried
all
right.
So
we
will
go
to
a
you
11.1.
The
2017
annual
report
demonstrating
the
value
of
the
Auditor
General's
Office.
C
Want
to
say
by
me
speaking
at
this
meeting,
this
shall
not
be
deemed
to
be
in
any
way
my
consent
express
or
implied
in
doing
so
is
fraud.
God
bless
her
Majesty.
The
Queen
and
long
live
her
Majesty.
The
Queen
so
mentions
in
this
item.
Auditor
General's
report,
Auditor
General's
message.
Our
office
is
proud
of
the
work
we
do
to
ensure
Torontonians
tax
dollars
are
well
spent
and
that
city
programs
are
effectively
run.
Our
office
is
proud
of
the
work
we
do
to
ensure
Torontonians
tax
dollars
are
well
spent.
C
I,
like
the
sounds
of
that,
you
know
what
I
also
like
the
sounds
of
I
want
the
Auditor
General
and
our
staff
to
take
notice
of
this.
This
is
Toronto
Municipal,
Code,
Chapter,
three
accountability,
officers,
section
3,
14
powers,
duties
and
limitations
under
part
5
when
carrying
out
his
or
her
duties.
They're
part
5
of
the
Act.
The
Auditor
General
has
the
general
powers
and
duties
in
his
subject
to
the
limitations
set
out
in
sections
178
to
182
of
the
Act
section
3-15
responsibilities,
a
the
Auditor
General
is
responsible
for
carrying
of
financial
and
brackets.
C
That
says
excluding
a
test.
Compliance
and
performance
audits
of
all
programs,
activities
and
functions
of
all
city
departments,
the
offices
of
the
mayor
and
members
of
council,
local
boards,
restricted
definition
and
city
control
corporations
B.
Despite
subsection,
a
the
Auditor
General
may
undertake
financial,
excluding
a
test
compliance
and
performance
audits
and
provide
recommendations
to
the
board
upon
requests
by
the
following
boards:
1
Toronto
Police,
Services,
Board,
Toronto,
Public,
Library,
Board,
3,
Toronto,
Board
of
Health
C.
C
Through
a
request
from
counsel
to
the
chair
of
the
Toronto
Hydro
Corporation
D,
all
reports
by
the
Auditor
General
on
city,
controlled
agencies
and
City
Corporations
shall
be
submitted
first
to
the
agency
or
corporation's
board
of
directors.
Now
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
I
I
didn't
hear
her
name,
the
Auditor
General
come
up
at
City
Council
during
the
tug
of
war
between
councillor
perks
and
the
mayor's
designate
by
the
way
on
the
Toronto
Hydro
board
councillor
holiday
here.
C
You
know
because
remember,
Karen
stands
wherever
you
are,
she
did
come
out
in
a
very
hasty
manner
and
said
you
were
gonna
sell
that
off,
which
I
would
not
do
remember.
Meritorious
said
this,
everybody
I
would
not
sell
Toronto
Hydro,
so
take
notice
of
what
it
says
in
the
Criminal
Code
regarding
fraudulent
concealment,
section
341.
C
Maybe
councillor
Matlock
can
suggest
again
out
loud
about
getting
the
police
involved
if
Toronto
Hydro
doesn't
hand
over
the
information
to
the
Auditor
General
that
both
councillor
perks
and
David
Ryder
of
the
Toronto
Star
seeking
from
them,
just
as
he
was
good
enough
to
say,
I
think
it
was
the
only
council
I
said.
Should
we
go
to
the
Toronto
police
regarding
the
Toronto
parking
authority
and
I
just
want
to
acknowledge
and
commend
councillor
Matt
law
for
doing
that?
So
maybe
we
should
think
about
doing
that
again.
D
It's
really
important
to
recognize
that,
even
though
I
come
forth
with
my
reports,
I'm
supported
by
a
broad
team
and
also
the
city
implements
the
recommendations
and
they're
supportive
during
the
audit.
So
in
helping
to
grow
my
team,
as
people
start
to
retire
over
the
next
few
years
and
and
I
have
four
years
left
in
my
term.
D
E
Thank
You
auditor
general,
so
this
slide
shows
the
major
activity
and
accomplishments
from
our
office.
In
2017
we
in
2017
we
shooting
performance,
audit
reports
and
five
investigative
reports
providing
a
total
of
163
recommendations
to
city
agencies
and
divisions.
Our
fault
and
way
hotline
poses
680
complaints
with
over
1000
allegations
our
follow
up
team.
They
review
the
implementation
status
of
152
recommendations
from
our
periods
report.
We
also
conducted
IT
audit
and
of
a
city
in
network
security
and
infrastructure.
E
We
coordinate
and
oversee
external
financial
audits
as
well,
so
we
don't
select
our
audit
just
based
on
cost-saving
opportunity.
I
want
to
clarify
that.
We,
in
fact
we
select
our
audits
based
on
risk
and
other
factors.
The
objective
of
many
of
our
audits
are
to
ensure
adequate
controls
are
in
place
and
the
program
is
operating
effectively
and
efficiently.
So
cost-saving
are
often
up
byproducts
of
our
audits
when
we
are
assessing
the
program's
effectiveness
and
efficiencies.
As
a
result,
there
are
different
types
of
benefits
from
our
audits.
E
E
So
our
saving
estimates
in
the
annual
reports
are
conservative.
For
example,
even
when
we
identify
annual
recurring
saving,
we
only
projects
the
saving
for
five
year
period,
even
though
in
most
instances
the
only
we
current
saving
will
go
beyond
the
fire
and
we
do
not
include
potential
saving
in
our
calculation
of
return
on
investment.
We
wait
until
our
recommendations
have
been
fully
implemented
of
substantially
implemented
by
staff
and
at
that
point
we
go
in
and
we
assess,
we
can
more
confidently
assess
the
amount
of
saving
and
that's
the
real
life
saving.
E
We
discussed
the
saving
estimate
with
management
staff
and
confirm
their
accurate
and
reasonable
before
we
put
it
in
our
calculations,
if
there's
any
additional
cost
from
incurred
from
implementing
our
recommendations,
such
as
system
development
costs
or
they
need
to
hire
extra
staff
to
implement
our
recommendation,
we
deduct
that
implementation
cost
from
our
saving
calculations.
So
this
next
slide
is
Illustrated,
realized,
one-time
and
projected
5
year.
Savings
achieve
on
a
year
by
year
basis,
as
you
can
see,
and
is
between
the
last
5
years,
2013
and
2006
17th.
E
Since
2013
management's,
implementation
of
our
recommendations
resulted
in
one
term
and
projected
5
year,
savings
total
in
203
million.
So
on
behalf
of
the
Auditor
General
and
our
office,
we
want
to
acknowledge
and
thank
you
city
staff
and
agency
staff
for
implementing
our
recommendations.
It
is
often
not
easy
for
staff
who
have
been
running
the
program
for
many
years
to
be
receptive
to
ideas
and
suggestions
from
somebody
outside
of
their
program,
and
we
appreciate
their
efforts
and
some
of
our
recommendations
are
required
pose
as
our
system
change.
E
That
really
requires
significant
amount
of
time
and
work
from
staff
to
implement
our
recommendations.
So
so
this
looks
nice
to
make
sure
we
are
comparing
Apple
to
Apple.
So
our
return
on
investment
is
based
on
the
five-year
cost
of
operating
our
office,
which
is
about
two
twenty
three
point:
nine
million,
and
then
we
compare
to
the
five-year
saving,
which
is
two
hundred
and
three
million.
So
this
means
for
every
dollar
invested
in
our
office.
E
There
was
a
return
of
eight
point:
five
dollars
and
our
last
year
we
turn
on
investment
was
seven
point
four
dollars,
so
the
Auditor
General
wanted
me
to
make
sure
I
stay
that
that
this
number
will
fluctuate
year
over
year.
So
we
make
no
promise
for
next
year's
return.
So
at
this
point,
I'm
gonna
ask
Nero
who's
the
one,
the
staff
really
behind
us
in
put
together
this
annual
report,
to
highlight
some
of
the
quantifiable
and
unquantifiable
benefits
from
our
last
year's
work.
Thank.
F
You
so
in
2017
we
were
able
to
quantify
and
recognize
benefits
from
seven
previously
issued
audit
reports.
Management's
implementation
of
our
audit
recommendations
resulted
in
one
time
and
five
year
savings
of
approximately
eighty
one
point:
four
million
dollars,
for
example
the
Auditor
General's
2014,
review
of
TTC
bus
maintenance
and
warranty
administration
identified
opportunities
to
maximize
claims
for
eligible
parts,
warranties
under
new
bus
warranties.
F
In
response
to
the
audit
recommendations,
staff
from
multiple
TTC
departments
work
together
to
develop
and
implement
a
new
warranty
claim
process,
the
warranty
claim
rate
increased
from
approximately
30%
in
2012
to
80%,
as
of
April
2017.
So
translating
this
into
dollars
saved.
This
represents
an
additional
five
point:
eight
million
dollars
in
annual
recurring
warranty
revenues,
the
2015
audit
of
property,
tax
assessments
and
payment
in
lieu
of
taxes
identified
opportunities
to
improve
the
management
of
property,
tax
assessment,
review
of
and
billing
processes.
F
The
audit
identified
certain
properties
that
were
potentially
undervalued
and
incorrectly
assessed,
based
on
discussions
with
management
from
the
Revenue
Services
Division
of
the
appeals
filed
to
date.
We
conservatively
estimate
five
point:
eight
million
dollars
in
recurring
annual
property
tax
and
payment
in
lieu
of
tax
revenue,
the
Auditor
General's
2016
cleaning
services,
audit
also
identified
properties
that
were
receiving
higher
levels
of
cleaning.
The
audit
also
made
recommendations
to
reduced
contracted
cleaning
costs
through
ongoing
efforts
to
implement
the
audit
recommendations,
management
expects
annual
recurring
savings
of
approximately
seven
hundred
and
forty
thousand
dollars.
F
F
The
office
also
issued
several
audit
reports
in
2017,
where
financial
benefits
were
either
not
determinable
at
the
time
the
audits
were
issued
or
where
financial
benefits
will
be
realized
when
management
implements
the
auto
recommendations.
For
example,
the
Auditor
General's
three-part
audit
of
the
municipal
licensing
and
standards,
division
identified
issues
related
to
licensing,
proactive
inspections
and
complaint
management.
The
overarching
theme
in
all
three
reports
was
the
need
for
clear,
specific
and
enforceable
bylaws.
F
Ttc
staff
have
only
recently
begun
implementing
the
audit
recommendations,
but
they
have
already
earmarked
approximately
2.2
million
dollars
in
the
TTC's
2018
operating
budget.
These
savings
are
not
included
in
the
Auditor
General's
current
year
savings
estimate,
but
they
will
be
verified
and
discussed
with
management
in
the
Auditor
General's.
Next
audit
recommendation
follower
process.
F
The
Auditor
General's
audit
of
Lisa
administration
at
Union
Station
found
that
potentially
nine
point
four
million
dollars
and
and
operating
cost
recoveries
had
not
been
finalized,
recorded
and
collected
by
city
staff.
This
estimate
again
is
also
not
included
in
our
current
year
savings
estimate
and
will
be
realized
when
the
outstanding
amount
is
finalized
and
settled.
This
audit
also
provided
recommendations
to
improve
oversight
of
commercial
operations
at
the
station
in
order
to
minimize
costs
and
maximize
net
operating
income
distributions
to
the
city.
F
D
You
and
in
looking
forward
we're
going
to
continue
to
take
a
risk-based
approach,
we're
going
to
continue
to
work
in
a
synergistic
but
independent
manner,
with
management
looking
forward
on
a
technical
basis,
we're
going
to
increase
our
data
analytics
and
maybe
move
and
do
a
little
work
and
explore
artificial
intelligence
and
the
potential
benefit
of
that
to
the
city
and
to
our
audits
and
I.
Just
wish
to
thank
this
committee
and
management
and
my
staff
for
the
work
that
they
put
in
each
and
every
year
to
bring
our
reports
forward.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
G
Thank
you,
mr.
chair,
and,
as
always
a
fantastic
report
by
and
yon
their
general
and
her
entire
team
I
do
have
just
some
I
guess.
Statistics
that
jumped
out
to
me
on
page
8
of
the
present
presentation
or
paid
summon
of
the
report
is
the
over
five
years
span
of
two
hundred
and
three
million
dollars.
We
can
see
in
its
lowest
point
in
2015
on
the
savings
of
17
million
and
then
jumping
almost
through
my
calculations,
almost
four
hundred
and
fifty
percent,
that's
at
2017.
So
what?
What?
What
have
we
done
differently
since
then?
D
There's
a
couple
of
things:
the
first
thing
is
that
we
always
use
a
risk-based
approach
and
we
can't
determine
which
projects
are
going
to
bring
back
the
most
savings,
but
we
refreshed
it
just
at
that
time
and
so
that
created
a
whole
new
suite
of
projects.
City
Council
has
been
supportive
of
the
office
and
funded
monies
last
year
and
that
actually
assisted
with
us
not
only
increasing
up
to
81
million
in
potential
savings,
but
also
in
real
life
savings
on
this
slide,
but
also
potential
savings
that
will
come
through.
D
So
they
did
do
that
investment
and
they
also
have
it
looks
like
they
might
looks
like
they're,
going
to
support
us
again
this
year,
although
it's
not
a
guarantee,
of
course,
until
the
budgets
passed
so
there's
that
investment
for
the
return
and
I
think
III,
don't
know
what
the
past
was.
Cuz
I
wasn't
here,
I
started
actually
around
that
time,
but
you
can't
really
predict
like
it's,
not
a
question
of,
because
I'm
here
this
is
what's
happened.
Certainly
when
you
do
more
projects
or
more
savings,
but
also
the
other
state.
G
One
fall
one
question
mr.
chair,
so
moving
forward
to
2018
City
Council
has
sent
out
the
work
plan
and
that
urine
team
will
be
undertaking.
What
is
the
percentage
or
how
much
time
do
you
allocate
towards
the
2018
work
plan
and
follow-ups
and
making
sure
the
2017
recommendations
are
being
implemented
so.
D
We
have
a
team
actually
here
of
a
senior
and
three
staff
members
who
do
the
follow-up
on
a
recurring
basis,
and
they
also
support
other
audits,
so
I
would
say
probably
about
maybe
5%
of
the
office
who
works
in
and
follow-up
I
would
say,
and
that's
equally
an
important
role,
but
it
doesn't
work
unless
management
does
their
work
and
they
do
their
work.
So
they
know
they
need.
We
have
a
home
system
where
they
can
report
to
us
and
we
follow
up
just
what
needs
to
be
followed
up.
D
So
we've
kind
of
I
think
we're
to
be
honest,
I've
presented
to
the
Auditor
General's
across
Canada
and
on
this
exact
issue
and
our
follow
up.
Implementation
percentage
is
probably
one
of
the
highest
in
the
countries
because
of
the
work
that
management
does,
and
our
system
is
probably
one
of
the
better
systems
that
and
they
wanted
to
know
more
about
how
we
did
this.
D
B
Thank
you,
Jarrett
actually,
I'd
like
to
follow
up
first
on
councillor
Ford's
question
on
page
7,
where
he
identified
the
savings
of
81
million
dollars
in
2017
when
I
go
to
page
9
and
lists
off
previous
audit
reports.
Reports
number
1
to
7
and
it
quantifies
at
the
end
of
that
81
million
dollars
isn't
the
81
million
dollars
identified
in
the
2017
annual
report,
reflective
of
work
that
the
Auditor
General's
Office
has
done
between,
looks
like
2013
and
2016,
predominantly
not.
D
Not
really,
we
have
in
the
back,
it's
a
combination,
it's
a
combination,
so
it
depends
on
when
the
recommendation
is
implemented.
So
there
are
some
this
for
the
last
couple
of
years,
like
Union,
Station
property
tax,
that's
the
work
that
was
done
in
the
last
three
years
and
there
was
a
thing
of
property
taxes
about
31
million
I
think
it
is
over
five
years.
D
B
Okay,
it's
just
separate
question:
I
noticed
last
year
that
you
contracted
out,
if
you
will,
at
the
frightened
waste
hotline,
just
wondering
how
that
how
that's
working
for
you,
I
notice,
the
numbers
are
kind
of
see.
Your
numbers
seem
to
be
pretty
consistent.
I
guess
for
the
last
ten
years
last
year
was
I.
Think
680.
If
I
remember,
the
number
in
the
report
and
average
over
10
years
is
660,
so
you
noticing
more
complaints
coming
in
since
you've
contracted
it
out
or
different
kinds
of
complaints.
D
Would
say:
I
agree
with
you
that
is
stabilizing
over
time.
That's
the
first
observation.
The
second
one
is:
if
the
change
actually
in
in
having
a
call
answer
services
to
serve
two
purposes,
one,
it
allows
the
quality
of
the
complaint
to
be
better
because
there
can
be
questions
around.
Where
did
this
happen
and
it
allows
for
that,
and
it
also
allows
allows
for
people
who
couldn't
leave
a
message
in
30
seconds.
D
The
second
thing
is:
it
allows
me
to
redeploy
key
staff
who
are
trained
to
actually
work
on
major
audits
this
year,
major
investigations
this
year
and
that's
what
happened
so
we
we
contracted
out
only
the
call
answer
service
and
where
it's
transcribed,
but
my
staff
were
redeployed
to
actually
work
on
the
major
artists.
We
were
able
to
do
five
of
those
this
year,
big
difference.
D
B
Question
if
I
have
time
on
page
10
and
page
12,
I
noticed
two
of
the
audits,
one
on
facilities,
management
and
one
on
the
TTC
facilities
management.
A
lot
of
the
savings
were
from
consolidating
custodial
contracts,
I
believe
and
on
the
TTC.
It
was
from
using
the
city
fuel
contract.
Did
you
find
those
findings
surprising
to
you,
given
that
to
me
on
the
face
of
them
they're
pretty
basic
management
practices,
I.
D
D
Actually,
I
was
going
to
speak
to
that
in
our
in
our
fraud
report,
which
is
which
is
next
and
I
guess.
The
short
answer
is
right
now
and
historically,
the
office
has
prepared
its
report
based
on
based
on
the
work
that
has
flowed
through
the
office,
but
there
are
other
areas
around
the
city
who
have
some
lines
like
this
and
and
divisions
who
do
some
work
and
not
everything
comes
through
the
hotline.
D
What
I'd
like
to
bring
next
year
and
it's
a
it's
a
big
change
and
a
big
ass,
but
I'm
wanting
to
endeavor
to
do.
It
is
actually
a
picture
of
the
fraud
management
across
the
city
from
all
of
like
from
TTC
through
to
tch
three,
it's
agencies
and
divisions,
just
so
that
we
understand
the
entire
framework
across
the
city.
So
right
now
it's
it's
limited
to
what
comes
through
our
office,
but
there's
a
broader
picture
that
I
think
is
important
to
understand
how
it's
being
managed,
crustose
and
so
I.
B
A
H
That
being
said,
I
do
want
to
express
one
area
of
disappointment.
I'm
gonna
say
this
as
productive
criticism
or
constructive
criticism.
I
hope
we
are
often
talking
about
finding
10
million
dollars
of
savings
here,
5
million
there
20
million
there,
etc.
That
all
adds
up,
and
that
is
incredibly
important
to
do.
But
you've
heard
about
this
before
and
I'm
going
to
repeat
it.
We
are
spending
billions
of
dollars,
or
at
least
we've
proposed
to
spend
billions
of
dollars
on
one
subway
stuff,
billions
of
tax
dollars
and
one
subway
stop.
H
We
currently
have
an
agreement
with
the
provincial
government
that
allows
us
to
move
forward
with
a
seven
stop
LRT.
That
would
not
only
cost
us
far
less
money,
but
in
fact
the
vast
preponderance
of
that
project
would,
under
the
agreement
to
be
paid
for
through
the
provincial
government,
not
our
folks,
but
even
more
importantly,
with
the
same
City
money
invested
now,
because
we've
also
to
facilitate
the
one-stop
subway
we've
increased,
our
debt
load,
we've
increased
property
taxes
and
for
the
same
city
money
we
could
actually
invest
in
24
stops
for
the
same
price.
H
So
we
don't
know
a
lot
of
things,
but
what
we
do
know
is
that
for
same
envelope
of
funds,
we
could
provide
far
more
service
rapid
transit
service
to
far
more
people
serving
them
well
with
every
dollar
that
we
have
access
to.
That's
what
we
do
know.
That's
an
arguable.
What
we
also
know,
based
on
our
own
studies,
is
that
it
will
tell
you
that
it
will
actually
take
the
average
person
in
Scarborough
longer
to
get
to
most
places.
H
They
want
to
go
with
only
one
stop
versus
so
many
more
stops,
because
obviously
they'd
just
be
able
to
access
those
stops
and
a
quicker
period
of
time
by
foot
or
by
bus.
So
more
people
in
Scarborough
can
be
left
on
the
bus
now
due
to
the
decisions
that
were
making
the
reason
I
remind
us.
This
is
this.
There
was
a
request
earlier
last
year
for
a
value
for
money
assessment,
an
audit
done
by
the
this
agian
and
you
and
I
read
this
the
mandate
of
the
Auditor
General.
H
Just
read
it
just
to
remind
you
and
I
hope.
All
of
you
have
read
this:
the
mandate
of
the
Auditor
General,
the
auditors-
and
this
is
from
your
presentation
today.
The
Auditor
General
is
responsible
for
assisting
City
Council
in
holding
itself
and
City
administer
administrators
accountable
for
the
quality
of
stewardship
over
public
funds
to
the
achievement
of
value
for
money
in
city
operations.
H
The
quality
of
stewardship
over
public
funds
in
the
achievement
of
value
for
money
in
city
operations,
I
submit
to
all
of
you
in
all
of
us
that
we've
failed
so
far
in
doing
those
two
things
we
collectively
and
I
asked
you
and
I:
ask
you
respectfully
the
argument
that
I've
heard
that
this
is
a
done
deal
when
councils
already
voted
on
it?
So
just
there's
no
reason
to
do
a
value
for
money.
Audit
at
this
point
doesn't
stand
up
to
scrutiny.
H
Well
maybe
after
the
election
I
hope
beforehand,
because
the
public
has
a
right
to
know
what
the
facts
are
and
the
decisions
that
we're
making
and
why
we're
making
them.
But
I
also
submit
to
you
that
before
we
decide
to
spend
those
dollars,
council
and
the
public
need
to
know
what
the
results
of
that
comparison
is.
So
we
can
make
the
right
decision
whatever
the
facts
come
back
as
thank
you,
Thank
You
councillor.
A
Any
others
wishing
to
speak
I'll
take
a
moment
just
to
speak
very
briefly
like
councillor
Matt,
Lowe
and
I
suspect.
The
sentiments
of
the
committee
I
would
like
to
thank
the
Auditor
General,
her
management
team
and
especially
the
the
the
members
of
the
broader
audit
team
for
all
of
the
work
that
you
do.
A
It's
been
an
interesting
journey
in
this
committee.
A
lot
of
work
has
gone
into
audit
and
I
know.
Maybe
if
you
ask
somebody
on
the
street,
you
know
what
is
it
audit
or
do
they
think?
Maybe
they
dust
off
some
books
and
go
through
some
numbers
and
check
things
with
a
calculator,
but
we
know
as
a
committee
that
there's
much
more
to
it.
There's
fieldwork
there's
investigation,
there's
some
very
interesting
things
that
I'm
sure
madam
auditor
you've
asked
your
team
members
to
do
all
for
the
betterment
of
the
public
service.
A
A
Listening
that
the
work
of
the
Auditor
General's
Office
is
the
fuse
for
transformation
in
the
public
service,
and
we
have
a
better,
stronger
public
service
that
people
are
more
confident
in
and
we're
constantly
evolving,
because
these
audit
recommendations
come
out
in
conjunction
with
management
and
they
give
the
management
the
power,
the
authority,
the
oomph,
to
go
there
and
make
changes
in
the
business
to
make
it
to
evolve
it
to
a
better
business
and
for
that
I'm
very
grateful.
I.
Think
the
citizens
of
Toronto
should
be
grateful
and
I
just
want
to
express
my
thanks.
A
C
Just
love
how
councillor
Matlock
keeps
ripping
that
scab
off.
That's
why
you
should
run
for
mayor.
So
in
this
item
it
mentions
Auditor
General's
report,
table
five
divisions
and
agencies
and
corporations
with
substantiated
complaints.
A
few
of
them
mentioned
here,
our
accounting
services,
real
estate
services
and
revenue
services.
Cuz,
who
do
property
taxes
go
to
ultimately
they're.
Go
to
Revenue
Services
now
I
hate
to
do
this
because
he
is
the
counselor
I
get
along
with
the
best
here
at
the
city
Toronto.
C
But
for
those
of
you
don't
know,
the
Toronto
Police
Service
have
a
Financial
Crimes
Unit,
the
Financial
Crimes
Unit
have
their
own
account
on
Twitter,
guess
what
the
Toronto
Police
Services
Financial,
Crimes
Unit,
just
tweeted
boat.
Yesterday
they
wrote
this
is
about
crypto
currencies
as
Bitcoin
bubble
loses
air
frauds
and
flaws
rise
to
surface
now
too
bad
he's
not
here.
But
what?
What
does
this
have
to
do
with
councillor
Lee?
C
Well,
did
he
not
just
second
some
sort
of
motion
thingy
introduced
by
councillor
norm
Kelly
on
recommends
that
one
City
Council
requests
Revenue
Services
Division
staff,
in
conjunction
with
legal
services
and
IT
services,
to
review
the
possibility.
Utilizing
cryptocurrency
as
a
form
of
payment
for
municipal
property
taxes,
utilities,
parking
violations
and
municipal
land
transfer
taxes,
as
well
as
a
payment
system
by
the
city
and
report
back
to
the
executive
committee
in
the
second
quarter
of
2018.
Well,
why
doesn't
the
City
of
Toronto
concentrate
on
not
defrauding
the
people
of
Toronto?
C
Why
doesn't
the
City
of
Toronto
instead
of
reviewing
the
possibility
of
utilising
coin
bits
and
the
chain
block
as
a
form
of
payment
for
municipal
property
taxes?
Why
doesn't
the
City
of
Toronto
focus
on
complying
with
the
statutory
rule
already
in
place
for
them
in
the
City
of
Toronto
back
with
section
336
which,
and
they
have
a
shorter
version
of
this
in
the
UK,
which
makes
all
this
more
easier
to
understand?
C
Take
notice
of
section
79
point
2
of
the
UK
Local
Government
Act
of
1888,
which
says
incorporation
of
County
Council,
all
duties
and
liabilities
of
the
inhabitants
of
a
county
shall
become
and
be
duties
and
liabilities
of
the
Council
of
such
County.
Now
I've
mentioned
before
I
think
here
at
City,
Hall,
that
at
the
code
of
consultation,
Fiona
Murray
pointed
out
to
me
that
you
guys
all
operate
under
civil
law.
Anyone
here
ever
heard
of
something
called
usufruct
there's
duties
attached
to
that.
C
The
Auditor
General
is
to
take
notice
of
user
as
a
civil
law
term,
it's
defined
as
the
right
of
enjoying
a
thing,
the
property
of
which
is
vested
in
another
and
to
draw
from
the
same
all
the
profit
utility
and
advantage
which
it
may
produce,
provided
it
be
without
altering
the
substance
of
the
thing.
Then
there's
the
duties
that
come
along
with
user
Froch,
which
anyone
can
go
online
and
look
up
for
themselves
in
Bouvier's,
Law,
Dictionary
1856.
C
Three
to
take
good
care
of
the
things
subject
to
the
user
front,
five,
to
keep
the
thing
in
repair
at
his
own
expense
and
for
this
is
the
best
one
to
pay
all
taxes
and
claims
which
arise
while
the
thing
is
in
his
possession
as
a
ground
rent.
So,
as
I
pointed
out
the
Meritorious
acute
Arisa
this
that
comes
attached
at
the
bottom
of
any
bill
from
the
city
of
toronto,
this
is
actually
a
rent
check.
C
Just
can't
come
over
here
from
another
country
on
the
other
side
of
the
ocean
and
start
selling
off
the
land
and
natural
resources
that
don't
belong
to
them
without
providing
security
for
restitution-
and
you
know,
I
brought
this
up
with
Marko
at
his
budget
town
hall
meeting
and
what
was
so
great
about
it
was
that
he
didn't
dispute
that
this
is
a
credit
item
and
the
code.
Ninety
six
here,
if
you
go
on
the
Canadian
payments
associations
website,
acknowledges
that
what
he
said
was.
C
Why
doesn't
your
father,
then
just
deposit,
this
credit
item
into
his
account
and
then
draw
upon
the
funds
from
it?
From
this
credit
item
from
out
of
his
account
to
pay
the
debt
with
and
well
I
will
see
how
max
at
the
at
the
bank.
My
father
deals
with
goes
with
that,
because
you
know
how
bankers
are,
they
think
that
they
own
you
thank.
B
Follow-Up
to
the
question
I
asked
on
the
on
the
previous
report:
I
noticed
that,
in
terms
of
the
number
of
complaints
it's
pretty
flat
year
over
year,
you
know
660
is
the
average.
Over
ten
years
there
were
two
years
where
there
was
a
blip
and
I
recall
what
what
that
blip
was
about
so
I'm
just
wondering
why
you
think
it's
almost
the
same
every
year,
just
under
two
complaints
a
day
year
after
year
on
average,
why?
Why
would
that
be
I?
Think.
D
It's
simply
one
is
a
much
maturing
of
the
system
when
it
was
first
announced.
There
was
probably
a
an
onslaught
if
we
do
find
a
fluctuation.
When
reports
come
out,
major
reports
come
out.
We
see
a
fluctuation
then
so
I
think
that's
what
it
is
and
and
I,
but
I
think
there's
a
piece
missing
here
as
I
outlined,
and
that
is
that
I
want
to.
This
is
what
comes
in
in
passively
and
I
want
to
have
a
broader
understanding
of
the
across
the
city,
the
strengths
and
the
weaknesses
in
this
area.
B
D
B
To
turn,
in
your
opinion,
in
terms
of
resources,
I
note
and
traditionally
a
lot
of
complaints
end
up
getting
referred
off
to
divisions.
In
your
opinion,
do
divisions
and
your
office
have
enough
resources
to
handle
all
the
complaints
and
do
either
you
or
divisions
ever
have
to
contract
out
complaints
or
since
them
outside
the
organization
and
get
them
resolved
in
a
timely
manner.
Just
wondering
about
that.
So.
D
That
thank
you
and
threw
you
a
chair.
It's
always
a
balance,
so
the
divisions
I
think
it
worked
very
diligently
and
we
try
to
refer
to
them.
Those
matters
that
are
not
as
complex
and
we
also
make
sure
there's
an
independence
in
the
investigation,
so
there's
something
that
we
take,
because
if
they're
either
higher
profile,
there's
a
lack
of
independence,
potentially
a
lack
of
expertise,
but
the
divisions
are
doing
a
great
job.
They
sometimes
refer
out
because
we
don't
have
the
money
to
do
it.
D
So
they've
contracted
out
some
of
those
we've
contracted
out
some
of
ours,
but
we
also
do
in
house
I
think
the
challenges
you
can
never
know
what's
going
to
come
in
and
when
it
comes
in
you're
always
trying
to
juggle
resources.
So
we
may
stand
down
on
an
audit
project.
So
it's
really
a
balance.
But
if
something
came
in
that
was
abnormal.
D
That
really
did
need
a
lot
more
resources.
I
would
explain
that
to
city
council
because
it
would
be
something
that
would
be
completely
unexpected,
so
we
managed
within
our
but,
and
we
would
ask
for
the
relevant
budget
that
time
we
managed
within
our
budget
right
now.
But
it's
always
it's
a
balancing
act.
B
21
I
noticed
under
acceptable
use
policy.
This
one
there.
It
kind
of
stands
out
to
me
and
it
talks
about
an
employee
who
received
gifts
and
went
on
paid
trips
with
the
vendor.
But
then
it
says
the
employee
had
declared
a
conflict
of
interest
in
this
regard.
Did
the
employee
declare
a
conflict
of
interest
up
front
and
then
worked
and
managed
the
vendors
contract
so.
D
I'm
through
your
chair
in
in
that
case,
what
happened
was
that
apparently,
they
had
declared
a
conflict
of
interest
verbally
to
their
to
their
boss,
and
the
duties
were
moved
around
so
that
the
employee
was
not
directly
overseeing
the
contract.
But
when
we
were
doing
our
work,
we
found
some
other
issues
and
highlighted
those.
G
D
D
B
D
B
D
I
can
say
what
I
can
say
is
that
I
have
to
say
for
the
City
of
Toronto
management
takes
the
action
that
I
feel
is
necessary
and
if
it
wasn't,
if
no
action
was
taken
in
a
matter
that
I
thought
machen
should
be
taking.
We
make
sure
we
follow
up
with
management,
but
I
can
say
that
they
are
diligent
in
that
aspect
from
the
files
that
I've
been
involved
with
since
I've
been
here.
I.
B
A
I'm
informed
that
there's
a
presentation
on
this,
and
regrettably
we
slightly
went
out
of
sequence
accounts-
are
hard.
If
there's
any
questions
pursuant
to
the
presentation,
if
you
could
flag
it
to
my
attention,
I
don't
want
to
so
you
haven't
seen
it
yet
so
if
I
could
turn
it
over
to
the
Auditor
General
and
your
staff
to
make
that
presentation,
we'll
pick
up
the
questions
just
after
that,
if
there
are
any
thank
you
so.
I
You
and
good
morning
today's
presentation
on
the
2017
in
a
report
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
will
cover
three
items:
the
key
statistics
by
the
numbers
and
beyond
the
numbers
and
other
major
accomplishments
this
year.
To
summarize,
the
key
statistics
we
have
created
a
new
visual
infographic
2017
was
a
very
busy
year
for
our
office.
We
process
680
complaints
representing
over
1,000
allegations.
This
is
a
23%
increase
over
the
number
of
complaints
received
in
2016.
I
However,
this
does
not
necessarily
mean
that
there's
more
fraud
at
the
city
complaint
activity
may
go
up
or
down
because
of
the
dynamic
nature
of
the
hotline
and
as
a
result
of
various
factors,
including
outreach
activities
and
the
nature
of
issues
reported
by
the
media
in
terms
of
dispositions
or
what
we
do
with
the
complaints.
There
are
some
complaints
that
are
closed
right
away
after
we
conduct
preliminary
inquiries
and
there's
some
complaints
that
are
referred
to
management.
To
do
the
first
line
investigation
with
oversight
from
our
office.
I
I
So
determining
dispositions
is
like
the
process
of
peeling
back
the
layers
of
an
onion,
which
you
may
have
heard
the
Auditor
General
reference
before
some
complaints
may
only
need
a
first-line
investigation
which
peels
back
the
first
layer
and
then
there
are
other
complaints
that
need
a
deeper
dive
to
keep
peeling
back
the
layers
to
get
to
the
bottom
of
things.
In
the
next
few,
slides
we'll
talk
or
take
a
closer
look
at
the
numbers.
I
All
680
complaints
received
in
2017
were
reviewed
by
our
office.
We
conducted
preliminary
investigative
work
on
89
percent
of
these
complaints.
This
helps
us
to
determine
whether
allegations
have
merit
for
further
investigation
in
terms
of
outcomes.
12%
of
complaints
that
were
investigated
or
referred
to
divisions
were
substantiated
as
at
December
31st
2017.
I
I
One
of
the
impacts
beyond
the
numbers
is
discipline.
Discipline,
acts
as
a
deterrent
to
wrongdoing
and
in
2017
to
employees
had
their
employment,
terminated.
Five
employees
received
other
disciplines
such
as
suspensions
or
warning
letters,
and
there
were
22
cases
of
other
appropriate
action
taken
by
management,
including
reinforcing
workplace
expectations
through
training.
This
shows
that
when
hotline
complaints
are
received,
the
city
takes
action.
I
Another
impact
is
information.
Gathering
collecting
data
on
complaints
is
important
for
several
reasons.
First,
it
can
help
to
identify
trends
and
data
that
may
point
to
systemic
issues
in
2017,
key
trends
of
substantiative
complaints,
included
benefits
and
subsidy
fraud,
conflict
of
interest,
second
jobs
and
misuse
of
city
resources.
I
Secondly,
complaint
data
is
also
one
of
the
factors
considered
that
may
result
in
an
audit
being
conducted.
For
example,
the
long
term,
disability
and
employee
extended
health
benefits,
audits
from
2015
and
2016
were
initiated
in
part
due
to
complaint
data
from
the
hotline.
Finally,
gathering
information
also
helps
us
to
identify
areas
that
may
require
proactive
monitoring.
I
Other
benefits
in
the
hotline
includes
strengthening
internal
controls
and
improving
operational
efficiencies
in
terms
of
other
accomplishments.
In
2017,
we've
changed
our
operations
internally,
as
previously
mentioned,
we
have
implemented
a
24/7,
independent
and
confidential
call
answer
service
that
has
allowed
us
a
streamline.
We've
also
been
selective
on
what
we
investigate.
I
Previously,
we
used
to
ask
divisions
to
report
back
on
management
issues,
but
we
are
now
focusing
our
attention
on
allegations
of
fraud
and
wrongdoing,
and
this
has
allowed
us
to
conduct
more
investigations
this
year
in
2017,
we
did
five
major
investigations,
each
with
a
separate
report
to
audit
committee.
These
reports
contain
a
total
of
37
recommendations
for
management
action,
including
recommendations
to
strengthen
internal
controls
and
help
identify
potential
savings.
This
year,
our
office
will
continue
to
focus
on
major
investigations
in
closing
we'd
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
management
and
staff.
I
The
symbiotic
relationship
between
our
office
and
management
is
an
important
part
of
the
impact
and
success
of
the
fraud.
Waste
hotline
Management
puts
in
a
great
effort
and
takes
action
to
ensure
that
the
right
things
are
done
only
by
employees,
reporting
wrongdoing
and
with
management
support.
Does
the
hotline
succeed?
This
concludes
the
presentation.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
if
there
are
any
questions,
we'd
be
happy
to
answer
them.
I
Through
your
chair,
we
conduct
several
communication
initiatives
throughout
the
year,
including
at
employee
Monday
morning,
news
items
to
advertise
when
we
are
and
a
report
is
being
published.
I
think
there
were
a
couple
where
we
announced
the
24/7
independent
call
answer
service
as
well
and
there's
a
whole
section
on
the
public
service
by
law
and
also
on
our
website
that
advertises
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and
I'm
not
sure
if
the
otter
general
has
anything
to
add
and.
D
This
and
this
year
we
plan
to
communicate
with
the
councillors
and
allow
like
how
we
have
business
cards.
So
if
somebody
has
a
referral,
they
can
simply
use
that,
because
often
somebody
will
come
to
their
counselor
so
having
a
business
card
to
provide
to
them
with
the
contact
information
and
what
we
do
will
be
helpful,
I
think
to
both
the
counselors,
who
sometimes
are
the
first
line
and
then
come
to
our
office,
so
that
is,
and
we've
got
them
prepared
for
just
need
to
distribute
them,
have.
G
D
H
Actually,
on
councillor
my
programs
question
with
regard
to
the
how
we
advertise
the
hotline
or
raise
awareness
about
the
hotline.
I've
never
seen
and
tell
me
if
I'm,
if
I've
missed
something,
but
I
haven't
seen
anything
that
that
expressly
indicates
whistleblower
protection
and
and
and
and
the
protection
of
anonymity
and
I.
Just
wonder
as
much
as
we
may
raise
awareness
about
the
hotline.
If,
from
your
experience,
if
people
don't
feel
confident
that
they're
going
to
be
protected
or
that
they
won't
be
undermined
in
some
way
that
they
may
not
come
forward.
D
Through
you
chair
and
the
protection,
the
retaliation,
the
the
protection
in
relation
to
retaliation
is
included
in
the
disclosure
of
wrongdoing
framework,
so
employees
are
protected
and
their
anonymity
is
protected
when
they
do
come
to
us.
But
you
are
correct
perhaps
that
a
reminder
of
that,
and
we
refresh
of
that
it's
going
to
help
staff
to
feel
a
level
of
comfort.
H
D
A
Thank
You
Cass
are
there
any
other
questions?
I
had
a
couple
I
just
wanted
to
follow
on
that
train
of
thought,
because
I
found
it
very
intriguing
about
how
it's
it's
advertised.
Do
we
have
any
sense
why
people
complained
they
use
the
word
complaint
as
in
identify
an
issue?
Is
there?
Is
there
any
even
empirical
information
do
people
do
it
out
of
a
sense
of
duty?
Is
it
out
of
spite
for
an
individual?
Is
it
is
it
all?
The
above
is
because
they
find
some
savings.
D
D
Sometimes,
when
you
know
you
can
be
in
a
situation
where
there
may
be
things
being
done
by
an
employee
that
maybe
bother
somebody
and-
and
it
might
be
some
of
that,
where
there
might
be
I,
guess
a
bias
towards
a
somebody.
That's
why
it's
important
to
have
somebody
who's
independent
to
look
at
this
and
to
really
diagnose
what
was
what's
happening.
So
we
see
it
from
all
sides,
all
different
reasons
for
the
most
part.
Actually,
in
almost
all
cases
people
come,
they
may
not
have
the
full
picture,
but
they
come
with
bona
fides.
D
They
do
come
with
a
valid
question
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
for
waste
or
fraud,
because
it's
not
happening
doesn't
mean
that
it's
not
working,
it's
it
creates
trust.
What
they
need
to
know
is
that
100
percent
of
the
time
we
look
at
every
single
allegation
that
comes
into
our
office
and
we
analyze
every
single
one.
We
do
preliminary
work
on
86%,
eighty-nine
percent
and
the
ones
we
don't
do
work
on
really
our
areas.
That
might
be
a
wrong
call.
You
know
they
might
need
another
officer,
so
we
really
do
that.
D
A
It's
38%
of
people
was
mentioned
that
choose
to
remain
anonymous.
I
guess
one
would
think
that
if
somebody
didn't
remain
anonymous,
it
might
be
a
bit
stronger
of
a
process
because
there
could
be
a
dialogue
between
the
Auditor
General's
Office
and
that
but
I
also
appreciate
the
fact
and
the
concerns
of
people
about
choosing
that
path
and
would
invite
them
to
continue
to
submit
their
complaints,
because
even
having
a
one-sided
complaint
is
better
than
nothing
at
all.
A
But
I
wondered
if
I'm
not
going
to
say
direction
or
whatever,
but
if
we
do
begin
to
advertise
more
about
people's
rights
and
whistleblower
protections.
If,
if
there's
a
change
in
that
38%
I,
wonder
if
that's
something
that
we
can
acknowledge
in
the
future
going
forward,
if,
if
that
number
begins
to
drop
because
we
are
making
people
feel
more
comfortable
about
the
protections
that
the
process
offers.
A
Alaska
was
sort
of
one
last
question,
and
it's
something
that
gave
me
joy
to
read
in
the
report
is
that
there's
there's
quite
a
split
between
the
disposition
of
the
complaints.
It's
not
90%
sort
of
go
nowhere.
It's
it's
a
very
healthy,
you
know,
I
think
was.
One
third
goes
to
management,
because
that's
probably
the
right
thing
to
do.
It's
there's
a
there's,
a
specific
issue
that
can
be
addressed
through
management.
A
I
think
that's
a
real
important
brand
that
people
should
feel
assured
of
that
their
complaint
is,
is
taken
very,
very
seriously
and
is
looked
at
diligently
if
we
have
to
diverge
from
a
path
where
you've
just
got
too
much
and
not
enough
resources.
I
think
we
should
know
about
that
as
a
committee
and
do
you
have
the
mechanisms
in
place
to
let
us
know
about
that.
I.
D
Thank
you
and
chair
to
answer
your
question.
A
hundred
percent
of
the
time
we
will
look
at
every
single
complaint,
a
hundred
percent
of
the
time,
all
the
time,
because
you
never
know
what
behind
that
complaint.
So
that's
important
and
that'll
be
done
by
our
staff,
because
we
have
a
honed
triage
process
right
now.
D
We're
moving
around
resources
to
be
able
to
put
the
right
level
on
the
complaint
should
at
where
there's
something
that
puts
the
city
at
risk
and
we
don't
have
the
resources
to
deal
with
it
and
we're
not
able
to
work
with
the
city
to
to
to
work
in
that
investigation.
I
will
come
back
to
this
committee.
I
welcome
back
to
Council
because
of
the
risks
that
it
presents
to
the
city,
but
we're
working
within
the
money
that
we
have
and
and
I
don't
have
that
situation
right
now.
D
A
A
H
Just
recalling
a
conversation
that
I
had
with
my
dad
when
I
was
when
I
was
a
kid
about
about
advice
that
he
gave
to
me
may
sound
odd,
but
he
once
said
you
know,
I
think
it's
really
important
that
if
you
see
somebody
being
mugged
in
an
alley
you
don't
just
walk
by
you,
you
have
to
you,
have
to
protect
them
and
we
ended
up
having
I
thought
a
very
thoughtful
conversation
about
all
the
different
elements
of
what
that
entails.
I
think
all
of
us
know.
H
Yes,
it's
the
right
thing
to
do,
but
you've
got
to
consider
something.
What
if
you
go
in
there
and
you
get
stabbed
yourself
what
if
they
remember
you
and
then
they
want
to
further
victimize
you
afterwards
and
then
maybe
they
follow
you
home.
Is
it
worth
it?
Is
it
worth
the
risk?
Are
you
scared
to
go
into
that
alley?
H
H
Will
that
person
be
upset
at
me?
They've
got
to
consider
all
this
and
it's
scary
I.
Imagine
for
that
person
to
be
able
to
speak
up
and
that's
the
reason
that
I
asked
my
question
earlier
and
a
follow-up
to
against
her
chemical
grebs
questions
about
what
assurances
do
we
give
proactively
to
to
people
work
for
the
City
of
Toronto?
H
That
not
only
will
we
protect
you,
but
in
fact
we
encourage
you
and
we
applaud
you
for
speaking
up
and
showing
that
courage,
because
we
are
cognizant
of
the
risks
that
you're
taking
you
see
this
in
many
areas.
You
know
whether
you
know
people
in
neighborhoods
who
don't
speak
up,
because
then
they
see
a
crime
and
they're
concerned
about.
What's
going
to
happen,
you
see
it
in
various
different
contexts.
So
my
point
of
this
is
simply
that
we
need
to
get
the
word
out.
H
We
need
to
let
people
know
throughout
our
system,
but,
as
the
AGI
I
believe
is
actively
listening
and
and
will
act
on.
Is
that
I
think
we
need
to
really
assure
them
that
we
encourage
and
will
protect
them
and
applaud
them
for
doing
so,
they
are
they're
showing
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
courage
and
a
lot
of
guts
for
speaking
up.
B
You,
chair
I,
think
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
works
really
well,
because
staff
are
communicated
with
by
management
that
there
is
whistleblower
protection.
They
understand
that
still
our
38%
of
people
a
call
in
anonymously,
so
they
have
some
concerns,
but
the
beauty
of
the
hotline
is
that
those
38%
of
calls
are
listened
to,
so
people
staff
do
know
that
they
can
call
in
and
there
will
be
action.
B
You
know
you
ask
yourself
the
question:
why
do
people
call
and
I
think
like
any
organization
90%
of
the
employees
in
the
City
of
Toronto
come
to
work
every
day
to
do
the
best
job
they
possibly
can
and
when
they
see
somebody
that
isn't
or
worse
is
stealing
from
the
organization
or
stealing
time
money
benefits
you
name
it?
It
offends
them
and
they're
deeply
offended
and
they
tell
their
management
team
or
they
tell
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline.
B
B
When
I
read
the
report
and
I
see
how
comes
around
whether
police
are
called
or
whether
they're
not
called
or
whether
people
are
terminated
or
whether
it's
silent
on
discipline,
you
know
from
the
HR
divisions
perspective,
they
have
a
lot
of
input
in
that,
but
ultimately
it
comes
down
to
divisional
management
and,
ultimately,
a
city
manager
to
decide
and
make
sure
things
are
fair
and
equitable.
I
can
tell
you
from
experience.
B
A
A
Are
there
any
other
speakers
seeing
none
I
may
have
a
motion
that
City
Council
received
this
report
for
information.
Councillor
Carmichael
grab
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed,
and
that
is
carried
a
you
11.3
IT
infrastructure
and
IT
asset
management,
review,
phase
1,
establishing
an
information
technology
roadmap
to
guide
the
way
forward
for
infrastructure
and
asset
management
council
hardly
held
down.
Do
you
have
any
questions
of
staff
just.
B
A
couple
of
quick
questions:
the
substance
of
the
report
seems
to
harken
back
to
a
number
of
reports.
I've
read
over
the
years
going
back
to
2006
and
then
some
of
the
recommendations
here
are
coming
back
to
the
audit
committee.
Once
again,
what's
your
opinion
in
terms
of
why
these
recommendations
need
to
be
reiterated
and
and
why
they're
not
moving
forward,
perhaps
the
way
some
of
them
should.
D
Thank
you
and
through
your
chair,
I
can
say
that
a
theme
that
I
have
seen
at
the
city
I
think
goes
back
to
I
mean
the
amalgamation
is
a
long
time
ago,
but
but
still
different
groups
coming
together.
The
division
of
the
work
and
changes
in
staff
I
know
that
our
current
CIO
came
in
I,
think
late
2013
and
when
I
came
on
the
scene,
I
didn't
expect
to
see
one
of
these
areas.
D
I
didn't
expect
to
see
what
I
saw,
which
was
again
a
challenges,
understanding
the
infrastructure,
the
assets
that
we
have
an
inventory
of
asset,
so
I
didn't
expect
to
find
that.
But
when
I,
look
back
at
other
divisions
and
I
see
that
this
is
a
struggle
where
we
almost
have
to
take
a
fresh
look.
That
I
see
that
that's
probably
one
of
the
reasons
when
you
it's
essentially
when
I,
let
me
describe
it
a
high
level.
D
What
we
see
here,
we
have
a
team
that
is
really
looking
forward,
came
in
looking
forward
modernized
in
City
II
strategy.
All
of
that
is
is
is
good
news
and
underneath
that
there's
a
like
the
meatless
sandwiches
to
deliver,
there
has
to
be
an
infrastructure
of
strategic
plan,
a
roadmap
to
deliver,
and
that
piece
was
weak
because
they're
even
understanding
the
assets
we
have
and
moving
to
where
we
need
to
is
a
problem.
D
So
they,
the
IT
team,
has
now
hired,
has
hired
Lawrence
EDA,
and
he
is
there
agree
with
where
I'm
at
where
I
am,
with
these
recommendations
and
they're
gonna
use
this
to
move
forward.
So
the
long
story
short
there's
history
here
of
divisions,
doing
you
know
having
strengths
that
on
the
CIO
and
there's
there's
been
a
history
of
not
one
person
being
accountable
for
the
IT
across
the
city.
D
We
found
that
in
the
security
side
and
that
created
issues
we're
seeing
the
same
thing
on
the
infrastructure
side
so
where
the
city
is
going
at
a
high
level
in
the
IT
is
fantastic.
This
is
a
complementary
piece
at
a
time.
This
is
why
we
report
it
now.
It's
a
timely
time
to
fold
this
in
as
the
city
moves
forward
and
get
it
right
once
and
for
all.
In
this
area
very.
B
Brief
follow-up
question:
you
mentioned
the
report
that
there's
a
bit
of
a
culture
shift
perhaps
needed
and
that
the
centralization
in
some
cases
really
should
be
centralized.
Some
of
the
decentralization
that
exists
today
are
those
divisions,
convinced
the
centralization
actually
will
deliver
better
service
for
them.
Has
it
been
demonstrated
to
them
and
those
areas
that
have
been
centralized?
Have
you
seen
more
effective
service
delivery
so
that
divisions
actually
are
getting
better
service
and
managing
the
IT
infrastructure
themselves?
So.
D
So
there's
work
to
do
here
to
really
get
the
map
of
what
they
need
to
deliver
going
forward
when
the
city
amalgamated
it
was
set
up
in
a
certain
way
to
deliver,
the
city
has
matured,
and
now
we
need
to
do
catch-up
for
the
IT
team
to
work
with
the
decentralized
groups
other
agencies
to
understand
what
it
needs
to
deliver
on
an
your
basis.
So
what
we
see
is,
for
example,
really
having
a
map
of
all
the
its's
across
the
city.
D
Who's
responsible
for
that
and
I
really
think
that,
on
the
security
side
we
saw
there
wasn't
one
person
who
isn't
really
living
out
that
responsibility
and
and
having
the
accountability
and
the
control
and
on
the
infrastructure
side
we're
seeing
the
same
thing.
But
this
CIO
and
the
director
of
infrastructure
is
also
here.
So
they
can
comment
on
that.
J
Sure,
thank
you.
Thank
you
through
the
chair.
Divert
it
to
that
question
now,
counselor.
When
the
topic
of
a
centralization
comes
up,
sometimes
we
default
to
think
in
organizational
about
what
the
Auditor
General
Beverly
is
referring
to.
You
is
we're
talking
about
talking
about
centralization,
we're
talking
about
people,
process
and
technology.
What
we've
seen
from
a
technology
perspective
is
there's
no
longer
independent
technology.
J
Everything
we
do
today
is
connected
some
way,
some
shape
some
form,
whether
it's
from
your
smartphone
to
enterprise
applications
to
underpinning
infrastructure,
we
steward,
so
that
technology
need
to
make
sure
that
it's
secure
and
available,
and
so
things
are
a
lot
more
related.
So
we
need
to
look
at
it
from
a
technology
footprint.
We
need
to
look
at
it
from
a
process
perspective,
and
that
means
governance.
Again.
Centralization
is
necessarily
mean
reorganization.
What
is
the
governance?
What
is
the
who
are
the
people?
J
What
are
the
types
of
decisions
that
need
to
be
made
that
we're
protecting
and
securing
those
critical
assets
as
an
organization?
That's
becoming
more
digital,
our
dependency
on
data
and
technology
increases.
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
right
governance
and
then,
thirdly,
if
it
results
in
some
changes
in
the
roles
and
what
people
do,
we
have
a
look
at
that.
J
So
we're
undertaking
a
series
of
things
to
look
at
that
from
a
methodical
and
holistic
manner,
including
in
current
and
past
audit
reports,
but
also
doing
things
like
a
financial
benchmark,
sort
of
make
sure
that
we're
getting
the
return
on
the
value
of
those
investments
and
correlating
that
to
the
service
delivery.
So
that's
really
what
we're
looking
at
when
we
talk
about
centralized,
I
T.
A
Whether
you
have
any
other
questions
from
the
committee
I
see,
none
that
I
have
a
couple.
I
think
it's
to
the
auditor
at
least
at
the
start
here,
I,
wonder
auditor.
Could
you
comment
the
situation
and
the
description
of
our
IT
asset
distribution
governance
infrastructure
is.
Is
that
unusual
for
an
organization
as
it
as
it
moves
through
something
this
large
as
it
moves
through
time.
D
D
D
I
was
surprised
at
one
level,
but
at
another
level,
looking
at
the
history,
I
just
think
the
focus
is
to
go
forward
and
to
in
to
catch
up,
because
I
think
it's
a
result
of
the
history
and
I
say
that,
because
I've
seen
it
in
other
areas
of
the
of
the
city,
so
I
think
it's
those
things
but
I'll
turn
over
the
CIO.
Also.
J
Thank
you
again
to
the
chair.
You
know.
Different
organizations
have
different
models
and
how
they've
put
things
together,
you
know,
as
Beverley,
has
indicated
the
evolution
of
the
City
of
Toronto.
It's
it's
a
good
crossroads
for
us
to
be
having
a
look
at
what
is
best
for
us.
What
is
best
to
enhance
and
make
our
services
effective
and
efficient,
so
really
I.
Think
it's
a
great
time
in
terms
of
really
getting
the
answer
to
that
question
so
that
we
evidence
based.
J
A
D
Chair
the
risk
lies
with
the
CIO
because
he's
the
first
person
that
you
call
when
something
goes
wrong,
but
the
challenges
when
he's
come
in
at
2013
having
a
finger
on
the
pulse
of
everything
and
where
everything
is
it's
all
the
assets.
That
is
not
there,
the
the
assets
that
are
connected
to
the
system,
which
ones
are
decommissioned.
D
A
Would
you
say
that
there's
at
least
a
disconnect
right
now?
So,
if
you
know
we,
as
council
or
and
the
management
team,
looks
to
the
CIO
for
the
the
integrity
and
the
availability
of
the
information
and
the
information
systems,
yet
the
power
and
control
and
the
responsibility
of
day
to
day
looking
after
it
might
be
in
other
places
because
of
evolution
of
the
the
it's.
J
Again
through
the
chair
and
both
of
you
thank
you
for
the
comments.
It
almost
an
awkward
question
to
answer
right,
but
yes,
I
mean.
Is
there
opportunity
for
again
for
an
organization,
that's
increasingly
dependent
on
technology
and
data
for
us
to
have
better
governance
structures
so
that
we
can
protect
those
assets?
I
think
it
there's
an
opportunity
for
that
in
terms
of
just
making
sure
we're
managing
to
the
best
of
our
ability,
so
the
the
accountability
and
the
responsibility
alignment
is
it's
a
good
time
for
that
dialogue?
Okay,.
A
And
last
question
I
gained
back
to
the
auditor,
because
you
were
investigating
this
from
the
outside
looking
inwards.
Did
you
find
that
the
the
managers
and
the
the
people
that
control
the
assets
out
in
the
divisions
were
appropriately
certified
or
experienced,
and
and
also
did
they
balance
their
time
with
managing
these
assets
versus
their?
D
So
this
is
phase
one
of
our
work.
That's
the
first
thing.
But
to
answer
your
question,
what
we've
recommended
here
is
actually
that
the
CIO
and
his
team
take
it
away
and
identify
which
services
absolutely
need
to
be
centralized
and
which
ones
where
the
delivery
can
take
place
in
the
division,
at
least
even
having
an
inventory
of
the
assets
is
important.
D
The
if
there's
a
difference
between
the
mind
controlling
the
organization
and
setting
the
standards
and
and
understanding
where
all
the
assets
are
and
deploying
fixes
and
patches
in
a
in
a
seamless
manner
and
then
the
mind
controlling
it
and
then
who
delivers
it
and
I.
Think
that's
a
big
thing
that
has
too
yet
to
be
unpacked,
and
we
know
there's
an
issue
here,
because
the
IT
group
has
not
been
able
to
move
forward
in
that
front
from
a
couple
of
audit
reports.
J
Sure
again,
through
the
chair
fully
agree
and
without
repeating
any
of
the
comments
you
know
this
audit
we've
had
an
opportunity
to
comment
and
review
in
write
down
to
the
micro
detail
level,
detail
and
fully
support.
The
recommendations
in
terms
of
this
is
what's
best
for
the
city.
At
this
juncture.
Thank.
A
A
That
is
simply
that
it
would
be
added
on
to
the
15
recommendations
that
City
Council
this.
This
would
be
number
16.
City
Council
requests
the
CIO
to
consider
developing
a
service
offering
for
city
agencies
where
the
case
exists
for
cost
savings
or
other
benefits.
It
all
speak
very
briefly
to
that.
I
hope
that
the
committee
will
support
that
the
recommendations
are
highly
introspective
and
I
think
about
some
work.
I
did
before
taking
on
a
role
as
a
councilor
being
elected
in
this
area,
and
it
always
equated
IT
infrastructure
and
IT
services.
A
Is
that
being
very
parallel,
but
different
than
building
assets?
And
if
you
recall,
we've
gone
through
a
massive
real
estate
transformation
I've
seen
through
some
of
the
resolutions
at
City
Council
to
create
a
new
agency
where
we're
looking
at
how
we
think
about
these
assets
out
in
the
field
and
how
we
sort
of
bring
one
mind
in
to
how
we
look
at
the
strategy
on
those
assets
and
I
see
what
we're
doing
here
is
exactly
the
same
thing.
A
One
of
the
the
areas
that
wasn't
deeply
discussed
in
the
report
is
our
connectivity
with
our
age
sieze
and
I'm
not
saying
that
we
have
to
go
and
extend
the
IT
network
to
all
of
the
agencies,
but
I
understand
that
we
are
very
much
in
the
early
days
of
those
discussions
looking
for
opportunities.
So
really
this
gives
the
CIO
an
opportunity
to
think
about
how
we
could
extend
IT
infrastructure
into
those
agencies
as
an
offering
and
if
it
suits
their
business
model,
if
it
if
it
makes
sense
to
them.
A
I
think
the
idea
is
is
to
begin
to
develop
a
service
catalog
and
that
could
be
started
with
them.
The
most
basic
and
the
nine
of
things
such
as
offering
an
extension
of
our
telephone
service
in
there
to
join
that
larger
network,
and
it
could
be
something
as
sophisticated
as
the
creation
in
support
of
maybe
an
application
or
a
server.
So.
H
A
And
I
think
it
involves
some
steps,
the
IT
organization,
to
begin
to
think
about
what
it
is.
They
could
offer
larger
outside
of
the
firewall
of
the
of
the
full-out
Toronto
Public
Service
right
now,
and
it
might
be
the
most
basic
of
things.
But
if
you
don't
ask
the
question
and
suggest
think
about
creating
those
service
offerings,
I'm,
not
sure
we'll
have
that
spark
started
and
we'll
see
where
it
goes.
It
has
to
be
done
on
a
case-by-case
basis
and,
of
course
it
has
to
make
sense.
Thank
you
great.
B
A
It
has
to
be
integrated
into
the
strategy
that
the
report
talks
to
developing
and
again
this
is
not
something
that's
going
to
happen
overnight
and
I
would
really
urge
the
CIO
to
start
small
on
this
stuff
and
as
the
organization
matures
to
a
point
that
it
can
support
something
larger
than
it
will
only
make
sense
at
that
point
in
time,
but
I
think
it's
important.
That
council
makes
the
statement
that
we're
comfortable
with
that
direction.
Moving
outside
of
that
firewall.