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From YouTube: Audit Committee - July 13, 2018 - Part 2 of 2
Description
Audit Committee, meeting 13, July 13, 2018 - Part 2 of 2
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=13710
Part 1 of 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjw5qJCCRbU#t=10m42s
Meeting Navigation:
0:10:26 - Meeting resume
2:30:44 - Public session
A
B
C
C
B
I'm
behind
every
auditor-general,
actually
behind
every
leader,
there's
a
number
of
people
who
make
things
happen,
and
you
saw
a
few
of
the
people
today,
I
like
to
empower
my
staff
and
they
came
forth
and
I
was
very
proud
today.
I'm
also
very
proud
of
somebody
who's
retiring
from
the
city.
After
32
years,
a
creepy
nicolau
and
a
creepy
has
worked
in
transportation
and
tech
services,
and
then
she
came
to
our
office
with
a
wealth
of
experience
and
and
she's
leaving
on
a
high.
B
A
Think
it
was
because
of
the
way
that
we
were
like
minded
in
so
many
ways
that
he
felt
that
I
would
be
appropriate
for
a
committee
that
he
chose
me
for
and
once
I
was
here.
I
found
it
to
be,
rather
than
something
that
I
was
forced
to
be
on
one
of
the
most
interesting
rewarding
committees
that
I
could
have
been
appointed
to
you
know.
We
I've
said
this
before
how
there
was
a
lot
of
rhetoric
around.
A
You
know
the
gravy
train
and
cutting
costs
and
finding
efficiencies,
but
if
you
substantive,
Lee,
want
to
learn
how
to
make
government
run
better
and
find
ways
to
make
it
run
more
efficiently.
This
is
the
committee
to
come
to
so
therefore,
we
can
write
a
better
City,
so
I,
just
I
found
this
committee
wonderfully
and
I've
enjoyed
working
with
both
the
former
AG
as
I.
Do
with
you,
and
I
also
want
to
acknowledge
the
chair,
Steven
Holliday,
Steven,
you've,
you've,
you've
run
this
committee
in
the
most
respectful
civil,
affective
and
and
in
in
positive
way.
C
You
councillor,
Matt,
low
and
I
just
want
to
say
we
got
a
great
bunch
here
and
I
really
appreciate
everyone's
work
with
that.
I
want
to
be
mindful
with
time
and
I.
Thank
you
for
what
you
had
to
say.
I
mean
was
positive.
Let's
call
this
meeting
back
to
order
and
get
back
to
a
you.
Thirteen
point:
nineteen
Auditor
General's
2018
status
report,
an
outstanding
audit
recommendations
for
city
agencies
and
corporations.
Councillor
Matla,
you
had
asked
questions
I
just
wanted
to
ask.
C
If
there's
any
other
members
of
the
wish
to
ask
questions
on
this
matter,
seeing
no
cancer
Motlow
did
you
wish
to
speak
on
this
excellent?
Thank
you
very
much
with
that.
I
would
like
to
adopt
the
recommendations
in
the
report,
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed
that
is
carried
a
you
13
points,
20
Water,
General's
Office
report
on
the
results
of
applying
specified
auditing
procedures
to
financial
information.
Other
than
financial
statements
for
the
year
ended,
December,
31st,
2017,
counselor
heart.
You
would
held
that
item
just.
D
A
quick
question
I'm
not
sure
who
can
answer
it.
It's
with
regard
to
the
gor
letter
on
the
appendix
there's,
a
list
of
annual
non-competitive
procurement
activity
and
there's
five
items.
Six
items
they've
been
redacted
the
names
of
the
vendors
and
the
reason
is
section
181
in
the
City
of
Toronto
Act,
which
this
section
181
is
City
of
Toronto
Act
talks
about
secrecy
and
personal
information
I'm,
not
so
sure
that
it
applies
to
the
names
of
vendors.
So
my
question
is:
why
are
vendors
names
read
acumen.
B
Very
kind,
and
thank
you
for
the
question
and
through
you
chair
that
is
required
in
my
view,
under
the
confidentiality
provisions,
you
wouldn't
find
many
Auditor
General's
use
experts,
but
they
don't
disclose
who
they
use
protect,
and
it
really
depends
on
the
case
that
you're
working
on,
if
you're
working
on
a
forensic
matter,
for
instance,
it
can
be
that
pressure
can
be
brought
to
bear
on
the
consultant.
That's
working
on
potentially
only
one
aspect
of
the
of
the
work.
The
other
thing
is.
The
report
is
my
report.
B
It's
not
the
report
of
the
consultant,
so
I
do
find
from
time
to
time
when
some
people
don't
agree
with
the
findings
trying
to
understand
exactly
who
helped
with
the
report
to
bring
potential
bring
pressure
to
bear,
and
so
it's
not
uncommon
that
Auditor
General's
don't
disclose
who
their
experts
are.
We
are
required
to
qualify
our
experts
under
our
accounting
provisions.
D
B
B
C
Thank
you.
Anyone
wishing
to
speak
on
this
matter,
seeing
none
I,
would
propose
that
we
adopt
the
recommendations
or
adopt
the
report,
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed
that
is
carried
okay,
we're
going
to
go
back
to
the
last
remaining
item,
which
is
au,
13-point,
11th
and
that
is
raising
the
alarm.
Fraud,
investigation
of
a
vendor,
providing
life
safety,
inspection
services
to
the
City
of
Toronto
I
have
here
a
presentation
from
the
Auditor
General
Beverly
remote
from
Romeo
dealer
and
Elaine.
B
Thank
you,
sir,
and
I'll
begin
the
presentation
and
I'm
going
to
start
with
the
actually
the
picture
on
their
front.
I
put
that
picture
there.
Not
this
one
in
flame.
A
situation
is,
should
I
put
that
picture
there,
because
I
honestly
believe
it's
really
time
to
be
aware
of
what
needs
to
be
done
to
bring
I
guess
buildings
into
compliance,
and
there
is
really
a
health
and
safety
matter.
B
So
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
there
was
attention
brought
to
this
issue,
I'm,
going
to
start
with
an
outline
of
the
presentation
a
little
bit
about
the
background
of
the
fraud
investigation
process,
our
inspection
and
results,
and
we
did
have
trouble
when
we're
going
through
this
process.
So
I'm
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that.
B
So
this
is
important
because
it
involves
our
life
safety
systems
and
I
choose
that
term,
because
that's
the
term
under
the
National
Building
Code,
and
it
relates
to
not
only
fire
systems
but
any
system.
That's
involved
with
people
leaving
buildings
as
a
result
of
emergencies.
It
can
be
lighting,
it
can
be
emergency
generators,
it
can
be
fire
alarms.
B
Also
I
found
this
contractor.
A
lot
of
people
were
aware
of
this
contractor
there.
The
fire
alarm
Association
was
aware.
Other
municipalities
were
aware.
We
were
aware
and
I
just
thought,
because
this
contractor
started
to
continually
morph
companies
and
continue
to
do
work
in
the
way
he
was
that
the
city
should
be
broadly
aware.
The
city
of
Toronto,
our
corporation,
should
be
broadly,
where
so
that
other
divisions
can
make
sure
that
they
don't
do
business
with
this
contractor.
If
he's
not
performing
to
the
level
he
should.
B
It
also
opens
a
conversation,
because
this
is
an
area
where
there
have
been
findings
in
this
area
and
I'm
speaking
with
fire
chief
and
the
deputy
fire
chief,
who
is
here
today,
Jim
Jessup.
This
is
an
area
where
they
feel
the
City
of
Toronto
can
assist
with
leading
the
province
and
support
the
Ontario
Fire
Marshall
to
bring
about
change.
B
No
I
didn't
have
all
of
this
information
the
very
beginning,
but
he
talked
to
PM
MD.
That's
a
purchasing
group
and
he
explained
that
this
is
a
health
and
safety
issue
to
the
related
to
the
city,
because
if
the
fire
alarms
weren't
working
or
if
the
extinguishing
systems
weren't
working
or
if
the
emergency
lighting
system
wasn't
working,
there
could
be
a
concern
so
and
he
explained
that
the
company
was
not
doing
the
tests
that
it
said
it
was
completing
so
and
it
also.
He
also
alleged
at
that
time
that
there
were
technicians.
B
The
company
was
forging
the
names
of
technicians
on
technician,
names
on
documents,
so
as
by
way
of
background
I
just
want
to
go
through
a
life
safety
system,
I've
already
spoken
a
little
bit
about
it,
we're
familiar
with
it
and
smoke
detectors
sprinklers
fire
pumps.
A
lot
is
in
the
life
safety
system,
and
you
know
constantly
we
go
back
to
inquiries
and
inquiries
say
you
know
this
inquiry
from
Weber.
It
talked
about
a
failure
to
enforce
the
fire
fire
code
is
an
impediment
for
firefighters,
doing
their
job
and
improper
functioning
of
the
safety
equipment.
B
Exhaust
exacerbates
fire
situations,
and
essentially
we
are
asking
our
force
our
best
to
go
into
a
burning
building
and
to
address
the
situation
there,
and
in
some
cases
they
don't
look
at
the
rooming
house
to
carry
out
dead
bodies.
I
mean
there's
times.
I
was
on
the
phone
with
deputy
chief
and
he
was
just
finishing
dealing
with
a
very
tragic
situation,
so
we're
asking
our
staff
to
go
through.
B
So
our
we
have
a
role
here
and
our
role
is
to
do
our
part,
and
that
is
to
make
sure
at
least
the
systems
that
are
required
to
be
in
place
are
in
place
and
it
comes
down
to
a
checklist,
and
this
is
this
is
absolutely
oversimplifying
the
situation.
Anybody
who's
involved
with
these
types
of
things
know
that
there
are.
There
are
standards
that
go
behind
this,
but
essentially
weekly
monthly
I
feel
that
online
I
have
seen
good
checklists
that
show
what
has
to
be
checked
weekly.
What
has
to
be
checked
monthly.
B
It's
a
very
from
an
auditors
perspective.
It's
a
very
methodical
checklist
that
has
to
go
through.
I
know
that
Luda
Geronimo
in
the
water
sector
a
lot
of
compliance
that
he
has
to
go
through
and
there's
a
very,
very
methodical
checklist
and
there's
checklist
on
checklist.
But
this
is
what
has
to
be
done
as
part
of
the
code.
Everybody
has
to
go
through
it
and
make
sure
that
it's
done
so.
B
Roles
and
responsibilities
are
important.
I
think
the
biggest
question
I
would
have
is
isn't
it
Toronto
fires
responsibility,
it
isn't
it's
the
building,
owners,
responsibility
and
the
building
owner
contracts
with
vendors,
and
we
often
when
we
contract
out
think
out
of
sight
out
of
mind.
Perhaps
if
they
they
are
the
specialists
that
we
hire.
In
fact,
when
I
started
this
work,
I
thought
the
people
coming
in
were
the
specialists
in
the
area
and
what
I
realized
was
that
they
might
not
be,
and
we
can't
trust
everybody
so
the
fire
on
fire
services.
B
It's
almost
like
an
auditor
general.
They
look
at
the
what
the
owner
does
and
they
look
at
what
the
vendor
does
and
they
make
an
independent
determination
on
whether
they
are
complying
with
the
code,
but
also
they
have
a
dual
responsibility
of
reporting
to
the
city,
to
the
deputy
city
managers
to
the
to
the
manager,
city
manager,
but
I
looked
in
the
fire,
the
fire
prevention
and
Protection
Act,
and
there
is
a
responsibility
for
the
fire
chief
to
ultimately
report
to
Council
so
I'm
putting
out
there.
B
It
was
in
my
report
and
it's
really
for
City
Council
to
determine
what
they
want
that
role
to
look
like
going
forward.
It
might
be
fine
the
way
it
is
today.
There
might
be
some
discussion
there,
so
Toronto
fire
really
has
a
dual
role
and
the
qualifications
and
licensing
so
I
also
thought
when
I
started
this
work
that
people
had
to
be
qualified
and
what
I
realized
is
only
fire
alarms
have
a
qualification
along
with
smoke,
detectors
that
are
in
connected
and
sprinklers.
B
Just
when
we
started
our
work,
sprinkler
qualifications
came
into
play,
but
for
other
things
like
making
sure
somebody
checks
the
lighting
or
checks
the
generators.
There's
our
extinguishing
to
other
extinguishing
systems,
the
qualifications
aren't
specified
and
that
might
be
an
area
that
the
Ontario
fire
marshal
might
work.
So
this
gives
you
a
background
of
who
we're
talking
about
three
companies
that
we
saw.
There
were
more
when
we
got
into
it,
but
essentially
advanced
fire
control
had
been
doing
work
with
the
city.
B
Looking
at
fire
alarm,
sprinkler
systems,
fire
extinguishers
and
hydrostatic
testing
and
New
York
Fire
had
the
some
sprinkler
contracts.
They
also
had
fire
hydrants,
emergency
lighting
and
fire
alarm
and
advanced
detection
technologies
were
actively
bidding
on
both
the
fire
alarm
and
the
sprinkler
and
the
lighting,
and
they
were
bidding
on
their
bidding
on
actively
bidding
on
contracts,
but
they
didn't
were
unsuccessful
in
obtaining
those
contracts,
and
this
is
the
process.
So
every
we
have
a
thousand
allegations
of
committee
every
year
and
what
I
do
when
I?
Don't
think
that
there
is
a
conflict
of
interest.
B
I
allow
management
to
take
a
first
line
review
and
many
times
they
understand
that
they,
you
have
a
separate
team
and
they
have
a
look,
and
essentially
they
look,
and
in
this
case
I
asked
him
to
look
because
they
were
the
major
user
of
the
service.
Did
we
get
the
service
and,
and,
and
you
know,
was
it-
was
there
any
information
to
suggest
that
they
didn't
and
management
usually
conducts
the
first
line?
B
The
level
of
work
has
to
be
balanced
with
that
and
that's
how
auditors
evaluate
risk
and
decide
what
to
do,
and
so
then
I
we
I
started
to
conduct
our
work
and
what
I
did
was
the
invest.
The
allegations
involved,
multiple
private
buildings,
provincial
buildings.
It
also
involves
city
buildings,
so
I
separated
out
and
independently
the
Toronto,
Fire
Service
looks
at
private
buildings.
B
They
decided
that
there
was
no
indication
of
mishandling
and
that
no
invoices
were
paid
unless
they
spec
ssin
report
provided,
and
they
match
things
up,
and
so
they
did
mention
that
there
might
be
some
packing
slips
missing.
There
might
be
some
service
reports
missing
and
that
can
be
common
in
any
organization
we
go
into.
B
You
might
have
some
things
missing,
and
so
we,
you
know,
we
didn't
expect
it
to
be
100%,
but
I
wanted
to
get
assurance
that
what
we
paid
for
and
that
the
work
was,
you
know
what
was
done
and
that
the
the
work
was
done
and
so
management
talked
about
a
three-way
match
process.
So
at
the
city.
That
process
is
that
we
make
sure
that
the
bills
that
come
in
are
matched
to
a
service
in
this
case
would
be
an
inspection
report.
You
we
hired
you
to
do
an
inspection.
You
did
an
inspection.
Everything
is
done.
B
B
Research
and
logically
I
went
into
some
of
the
metadata
on
the
site
behind
the
pictures,
and
I
could
see
that
they
were
tied
to
some
stock
photos
and
then
I
started
to
look
at
other
sites
using
Google
Image,
two
to
find
where
these,
where
these
images
were
and
and
I
saw,
I
mentioned
to
them
at
that
meeting-
that
there
were
multiple
stock
photos
on
different
sites
for
different
things
for
attorney
sites
and
risk
investment
sites.
So
you
know
I,
think
the
discussion
at
that
point
was,
you
know,
you
know
management.
B
It
said
just
because
there's
a
stock
photo
doesn't
mean
it's
a
fraud
and
I
said
well,
if
he's
on
multiple
sites,
doing
multiple
things
and
he
signed
the
contract
Dave
Daniels.
Maybe
it
is
more
of
a
fraud,
and
so
it
turned
out
he
Dave
Daniels
had
signed
that
contract.
We
found
out
in
that
meeting,
so
I
went
off
and
started
to
do
more,
a
deeper
dive
on
my
stuff,
and
so
here's
the
stock
photos
with
multiple
sites
and
you'll
see
Dave
Daniels
and
Dave.
Williams
are
a
common
name.
B
In
fact,
what
I
found
in
this
contractor
when
you're?
Looking
at
matters
related
to
our
potential
fraud,
if
people
have
to
make
things
up,
they
tend
to
make
things
up
in
patterns
or
they
tend
to
find
patterns
in
a
system
and
what
I
found
was
there's
multiple
times
of
first
names
use
like
Jason,
Peters,
Dave,
Daniels,
David
Williams
multiple
times
those
were
the
kinds
of
names,
I
would
see,
and
so
I'll
read
it
from
the
the
situation
from
the
get-go.
B
It
just
raised
my
interest
to
to
look
further,
so
my
three
I
had
three
lines
of
inquiry.
First,
I
want
to
make
sure
the
bidding
was
legitimate.
Next
I
wanted
to
look
at
the
inspections
to
make
sure
they
were
complete
and
there's
two
prongs
to
that.
Looking
at
the
invoices
and
discussing
with
staff,
but
also
to
ensure
completeness,
it's
just
getting
a
sample
to
see
if
the
work
was
actually
done,
I'm
not
qualified
to
do
this.
B
I
asked
for
Deputy
Fire,
Chief
Jessup
and
his
team,
the
Toronto
Fire
team
and,
and
actually
it
was
a
the
the
chief
Matt
Matt
Pegg,
who
dedicated
the
resources
to
this
to
go
in
and
have
a
look
at
some
buildings,
just
to
make
sure
that
the
inspections
were
done
and
I
and
I
just
independently.
Let
that
go
and
then
I
undertook
myself
company
searches
with
my
team.
He
laid
out
the
director
in
the
forensic
unit
and
we
were
tag
team
on
this.
B
So
my
first
line
of
inquiry
was
the
bid
reveal
what
I
noticed
was
that
York
fire
and
advanced
detection
technologies.
There
are
two
companies
that
were
complained
about
we're
bidding
on
the
same
contract
and
then
I
looked
at
the
signatures
and
although
they
were
different
names
to
these
signatures
on
two
different
contracts
of
writing
to
me,
just
untrained
I
looked
to
be
similar
to
me.
So
it
raised
a
question.
One
people,
some
people
might
think
bid
rigging.
We
can't
bid
rigged
with
yourself.
B
So
if
it's
the
same
person
sign
of
the
contracts,
it's
not
two
different
parties
coming
together.
It's
kind
of
funny
the
way
the
law
works
in
that
way,
so
he
was
bid
rigging
with
himself,
and
so
he
put
a
bid
in
for
a
two
hundred,
fifty
nine
thousand
and
a
bid
in
for
ninety
four
thousand
and,
of
course,
in
ninety
four
thousand
won
and
then
I
noticed
different
names
on
the
different
reports
to
be
as
I
mentioned
unusual.
B
So
then
I
went
to
the
invoices
and
I
expected
to
find
what
management
had
told
me,
which
was
that
the
supporting
documentation
was
there
and
for
Toronto
Fire
I
found
most
of
the
supporting
documentation.
There
was
issues
within
the
documentation,
but
we
could
find
some
support
for
all,
but
I
couldn't
find
the
documentation
for
this
facilities,
management
there's
52
percent.
That
was
that
we
could
find
so
48
percent
of
it
was
missing
and
we
looked
and
we
looked
and
we
looked
and
that
was
from
June
July
until
November,
and
then
we
went
back
to
management.
B
They
assured
us
that
when
they
received
they
follow
the
process
they
received
an
invoice
they
get.
The
goods
received.
Supervisor
science
is
paid,
there
might
be
some
things
missing,
still
couldn't
find
the
invoices
unbeknownst
to
us,
Toronto,
Fire
Services,
was
actually
conducting.
The
work
we
had
asked
them
to
do
is
look
at
a
couple
of
buildings
and,
and
they
had
similar
challenges,
getting
the
documentation
from
facilities
management
really
finding
the
inspection
report
that
inspections
were
done
in
finding
the
inspection
reports.
B
Toronto
Fire
Services
independently,
did
its
review
of
the
private
buildings
as
it
was
doing,
work
on
some
of
the
work
we
were
doing
and
it
came
back
and
said
to
senior
management
that
advanced
fire
control
was
not
had
some
issues,
and
this
is
the
letter
that
was
there
the
note
that
was
there
and
he
it
was.
Basically
they
thought
that
maybe
some
there's
some
violations
and
inspections
and-
and
he
warned
the
city
to
be
careful
in
doing
the
the
contracting
and
and
the
city
was
careful-
they
had
ended.
B
Sorry
in
the
city
had
ended,
the
had
ended
the
contract,
but
this
was
a
piece
important
piece
of
information,
because
what
it
shows
is
if
there's
violations,
that
might
mean
the
work
is
not
being
done.
That
might
mean
the
inspection
reports
are
not
in
order.
That
might
mean
there's
a
risk,
and
so
that
would
be
relevant
to
my
audit,
but
I
didn't
get
it.
I
didn't
get
this
actually
in
December
until
actually
I
found
out
in
May.
So
I
kept
going
with
my
work.
B
Toronto
Fire
reported
back
on
the
work
that
he
had
done
for
us.
It
reported
to
senior
management
to
say
there
were
significant
challenges
in
obtaining
the
documentation
and
in
their
mind
it
didn't
appear
that
the
third
parties
were
actually
carrying
out
the
work
and
the
way
they
needed
to
do.
There
was
a
lot
of
documentation,
missing
and,
and
actually
deputy
chief
Jessup
is
here
today.
If
there's
further
questions,
but
there's
documentation
missing
and
the
documentation
that
was
there
was
not
complete.
Some
some
significant
tests
were
not
performed
by
February.
B
That
Deputy
Chief
had
noted
that
it
was
his
recommendation
to
notify
me
about
potential
wrongdoing.
He
would,
and
if
city
didn't
notify
me
that
he
would
do
that,
because
he
was
concerned
that
it
was
more
than
one
company
at
this
point
in
time
that
more
than
one
company
may
not
be
doing
the
work.
In
fact
it
you
know
it
doesn't
mean
that
they
weren't
doing
the
work.
It
could
mean
that
the
system
is
broken
but
either
way,
there's
a
mismanagement
or
there's
a
there's,
something
going
on.
B
He
tweaked
that
he
left
it
with
management
and
then
continued
on
with
his
work.
I
wasn't
informed
of
that,
so
I
kept
looking
for
invoices.
So
by
March
I
sat
down
with
management
again
by
this
time.
I
hired
her
forensic
audit
firm
to
work
with
me
to
find
these
invoices
that
were
supposed
to
be
there.
We
were
spending
some
time
to
look
for
those
and
management
said
we
sat.
We
want
to
meet
with
the
managers,
actual
managers,
not
the
directors
but
the
actual
managers
to
find
out
directly
from
them.
B
What
was
going
on
at
this
point
in
time?
I,
don't
know
if
this
management
is
involved
because
all
I
know
is
they
tell
me
the
documentation?
Is
there
and
I
can't
find
it
so
I'm
trying
to
discern?
What's
going
on
and
I
know,
it
was
sent
out
to
managers
that
they
have
been
very
clear
before
the
meeting,
letting
them
know
that
that
senior
management
was
very
clear
with
the
auditors
that
they
followed
through
a
match
process.
Well,
it
wasn't
working.
How
could
the
process
be
followed?
You
know
that
you
couldn't
find
the
documents.
B
You
know
that
the
Deputy
Fire
Chief
couldn't
find
the
documents
you
know
their
violations
and
I'm
trying
to
find
the
documents.
So
I
was
concerned
about
this
note
and
then
what
happened.
Management
actually
undertook
an
independent
review
of
the
critical
buildings
and
that's
fantastic,
but
neither
the
fire
chief
nor
I
were
a
prize
at
the
results
of
those
critical
infrastructure
building
results
which
showed
that
the
documentation
wasn't
there
the
tests
weren't
done.
B
All
of
this
is
relevant
to
the
work
that
I
was
undertaking,
so
I
found
out
in
May
I
knew
they
were
took
place
in
April,
so
they
were
done
in
April
I
found
out
in
May
what
the
results
were
after
I
had
been
inquired.
Making
inquiries
I
knew
they
had
been
done
with
the,
even
though
the
results
had
come
in
before
I
was
surprised.
I
wasn't
apprised
of
the
results
anyway,
so
I
was
concerned
about
some
missing
documentation
and
we'll
leave
with
that
so
I.
This
is
just
a
summary
slide
of
some
of
the
challenges.
B
I've
had
and
I
know
we're
pressed
for
time
chair
so
I'm
just
going
to
go
on
with
that
and
the
third.
My
third
line
of
inquiry
that
we
talked
about
was
company
searches
and
I'll,
get
to
that
it
would
I
go
through
the
results
which
is
next,
so
my
findings
were
in
one
two:
three
four
six
areas:
there's
not
a
trail
missing.
There's
problems
with
the
invoices
there's
an
authenticity
issue
with
a
contractor.
B
So
in
her
report
she
deputy
sorry
Dame
Hackett
in
the
group
glenn
Grunfeld
report.
First
of
all
that
fire
is
not
the
City
of
Toronto,
we
have
different
billing
codes
here.
It's
not
the
same
thing,
but
I
can
say
that
there
were
some
systemic
cultural
things
that
I
did
find
that
reflected
in
the
work
I
was
doing.
One
of
them
is
an
audit
trail
and
it's
a
deep
flaw.
The
system
to
identify
all
of
our
buildings.
B
What
needs
to
be
done
and
make
sure
that's
done
to
the
code
is
missing
here
and
so
I
noticed
that
within
our
report.
So
this
we
already
talked
about
the
missing
documentation
was
an
issue.
So
there's
a
lack
of
proof
for
us
to
be
able
to
show
that
we
are
in
compliance
with
the
code.
The
second
area
was
the
problem
with
their
invoices
management
itself
was
saying
they
weren't
accurate.
There
was,
you
know.
We
found
multiple
areas
where
there
were
issues
potentially
over
billing
service
orders
were
an
issue.
We
found
some
duplicate
charges.
B
Small
dollar
amount,
important
charges,
I
incorrect
invoice
dates.
You
know
there,
so,
basically,
the
the
invoicing
was
an
absolute
mess.
We
found
technicians
who
were
apparently
in
three
locations.
At
the
same
time,
we
found
duplicate
signatures
that
we
had
analyzed
by
a
forensic
handwriting
court,
qualified
experts
who
verified
these
are
not
the
signatures
of
our
staff
and
they're,
not
the
signatures
of
the
technician
it
looks
like
they
were
copied
and
pasted
on
to
this
document,
and
actually
the
we
contacted
the
technician
and-
and
the
technician
said
that
that
is
not
his
signature.
B
We
found
situations
where
the
documents
showed
that
the
firefighters
weren't
there
and,
in
fact
the
you
know
the
document
said
they
couldn't
get
a
signature,
because
the
firefighters
weren't
there
I
would
say
at
least
25%
of
the
time
we
had
no
signature.
50%
of
the
time
we
had
two
signatures
and
another
25%
of
the
time
we
had
one
signature
like
the
technician
and
not
they
not
the
customer.
So
something
was
missing
in
this
process.
B
There
was
there
was
we
have
staff
who
recognized
when
there
are
issues
staff
are
recognizing,
they
were
a
mess.
These
are
from
emails
with
with
a
company
that
the
invoicing
was
a
mess.
It
was
unacceptable,
they're
doing
a
terrible
job.
They're
not
don't
have
accurate
reports.
Our
staff
recognized
that
there
are
problems,
but
it's
that
link
to
see
to
say
enough
is
enough.
This
is
important.
Let's
stop
it
now
and
let's
get
on
with
the
next
contractor,
that's
missing
and
understanding
the
rules.
You
know
we
can
stop,
especially
in
a
public
safety
situation.
B
This
is
an
example
just
a
picture.
These
are
actual
service
orders.
There's
pictures
they're,
sending
in
pictures
of
something
that
looks
like
a
staples
book.
Sometimes
they
have
a
service
order.
Sometimes
they
write
it
up.
It
changes,
and
one
of
these
you
know
when
you're
looking
for
inconsistencies,
that
you
need
to
look
deeper
and
you're
looking
for
fraud
company
that
doesn't
have
itself
together
to
make
sure
that
it's
consistent
and
methodical
and
controlled
and
you're
asking
them
to
look
after
your
life
safety
equipment.
B
It
might
be
a
problem
and
when
you're
looking
it
doesn't
mean
because
it's
messy
that
it
is
fraud.
What
it
means
is
you
look
closer
because
they
don't
have
it
in
control.
They
may
not
know
if
they're
billing
twice
you
know,
so
you
have
to
just
make
sure
that
it's
it's
it's
controlled.
The
invoicing
changed
quite
a
bit.
These
are
only
some
invoices
that
we
found
changed,
colors,
changed
names
and
the
we
actually
interviewed
under
oath
the
directing
mind
behind
this
company,
and
he
said
he
just
likes
to
design.
B
B
In
fact,
the
contract
allows
the
reports
to
come
in
in
an
Excel
format
and
they
can
be
manipulated
and
that
the
as
you
can
see
a
manager
is
noticing
it's
an
issue,
but
the
next
step
is:
let's
fix
that
and
that's
that
part
is
missing
the
final
interview
with
management
after
everything,
after
trying
to
find
that
invoices
for
months
it
was.
We
didn't
really
look
at
the
invoices
that
much
in
the
beginning,
when
you
asked
us
to
look
at
it,
but
now
we're
letting
you
know
it
was
easier.
B
Just
you
know
if
we
couldn't
find
it
looks
like
staff
just
passed
them
through
for
payment,
and
that
is
deeply
concerning,
because
I
have
spent
a
lot
of
sending
money
to
hire
forensic
people
there's
a
risk
here.
That
was
a
that
was
a
challenge.
So
I
asked
a
supervisor:
why
did
the
manager?
Why
did
you
not
listen
to
the
life
safety
supervisor?
There's
a
life
safety
supervisor,
a
guy
who,
who
really
it
was
his
job.
His
title
was
the
life
safety
supervisor.
B
He
would
put
up
his
hand
time
and
time
again
and
I
spoke
with
him
and
he
was
happy
because
he
raised
it
to
management
and
he
thought
management
was
dealing
with
it.
I
spoke
with
management
and
they
said
he
was
persnickety.
We
treated
what
he
said
with
a
grain
of
salt.
These
are
exact,
quotes
from
the
manager.
So
then
I
asked
so
did
you
follow
up
to
make
sure
what
he
was
raising
was
fixed?
B
There
are
many
levels
of
concern
for
me
here:
there's
a
lack
of
action,
they've
known
how
long
there's
been
issues
like
this
life
safety
supervisor
said
it's
not
like
they're
painting
the
floor
for
us
and
they
missed
the
corner.
These
systems
matter.
That's
what
he
said
to
me.
So
you
know,
then
the
verification
to
confirm
the
work
it
wasn't
done.
We've
gone
through
that
and
you
know
that
was
definitely
a
concern.
B
B
In
fact
we
stopped
paying
this
life
safety
supervisor
stopped
paying
because
he
said
this
work
was
not
being
done.
There
are
duplicates,
you
know
there
are
issues,
we
can't
show
it
and
he
sued
us
for
non-payment
and
we
settled-
and
he
said,
I
didn't
settle
my
own
voices
because
he
didn't
get
the
full
settlement
because
I
wouldn't
so
I'm,
just
letting
you
know
that
this
is
important
that
there's
issues
raised
many
times.
The
purple
shows
that
we
kept
renewing
the
contracts.
Are
we
kept
awarding
contracts
to
some
of
these
companies
now
granted?
B
The
city
would
not
have
known
necessarily
that
York
fire
morphed
into
a
different
company,
but
the
guy
you
were
dealing
with
didn't
change,
Ralph
or
mine.
He
didn't
change
so,
if
you're
having
issues,
but
even
if
you
take
that
out
of
the
equation,
if
you're
having
issues
with
any
company
and
they're
not
and
they're,
not
providing
the
supporting
documentation,
I
would
be
calling
rod
Blake
and
could
mean
let's
work
right,
Colorado
flake,
so
the
city
kept
awarding
contracts
and
then
they
kept
and
then
and
then
what
happened
was
they
not
only
renewed
the
contract?
B
Then
they
raised
it
by
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
full
year's
worth
and
why
that
was
got
raised
is
because
the
allegation
was
they
were
replacing
more
batteries
than
they
needed
to
replace.
So
they
were
using
up,
obviously
more
money,
and
so
the
contract
money
ran
out
and
they
had
to
increase
the
money.
And
then
the
complaint
came
in
and
even
after
the
complaint
came
in,
we
did
there's
a
fair
wage
audit.
There
was
that
way.
B
There
were
issues
and
one
of
the
people
who
was
originally
named
one
of
the
groups
that
was
originally
named
and
that
would
be
advance
fire
detection.
They
were
actually
awarded
a
bit.
What
the
challenging
thing
is
PMD
raised
this
issue
to
us.
Pmd
went
back
to
check
if
performance
was
okay
to
facilities,
management
and
went
back
to
the
managers
to
whom
these
issues
were
raised.
But
the
management
didn't
say
there
was
a
performance
problem.
B
So
all
the
steps
that
should
have
been
done
from
the
PMD
site
appear
to
have
been
done,
but
the
issue
coming
through
there
was
a
breakdown
in
communication
or
something
but
and
it's
more
than
one
company,
so
I
can
tell
you.
I've
got
another
file
under
way
of
another
company
where
they've
been
awarded
work
after
significant
issues
like
this
have
been
raised
by
city
staff,
so
so
another
miss
patty
stopped
using
this
contractor.
They
had
similar
problems,
I'm
going
to
move
along
here
and
the
contracts
were
renewed.
B
We
talked
about
that
the
authenticity
of
this
company.
They
put
themselves
out
as
being
a
longtime
leader
since
1993
right
there,
there
they're
not
that
old.
If
a
company
like
York
fire
by
the
time
we
were
the
first
contract,
was
only
in
in
in
play
six
months,
but
what
happened
would
be?
The
company
would
get
into
difficulty
with
the
city
or
another
vendor.
They
don't
have
to
be
licensed,
so
they
would
simply
form
a
new
company
and
then
continue
York
fire
got
into
issues,
they
form
another
company.
B
So
by
the
time
I
sat
down
under
oath
with
with
the
guiding
mind
of
these
these
of
these
companies.
He
informed
me
he's
forming
another
company
and
he's
combining
two
and
he's
continuing
and
I've
spoken
to
his
staff
and
they've
got
two
more
underway,
so
it
doesn't
end
with
the
file
today.
It
doesn't
end
with
this
company,
so
there's
a
systemic
thing
that
has
to
be
fixed
and
we
just
have
to
be
on
the
alert
more.
B
The
other
issue
around
this
is
that
look
at
the
number
of
groups
that
are
using
this
company
that
they're
putting
out
who
are
using
this
company
and
I,
can
tell
you
there's
three
of
the
municipalities
here
that
I
mentioned
that
you
know.
There's
I
know
that
they've
done
work
in
these
municipalities,
so
there's
issues
there
and
the
concerns
again,
even
with
the
life
safety
supervisor.
B
We're
given
a
gut
feel
for
a
reason
and
if
somebody
thinks
there's
somebody
for
Tisha's
and
you
can't
get
ahold
of
them
over
years
and
they
don't
come
to
the
table
ever
and
we
don't
have
any
documentation
on
them.
We
don't
even
check
if
they're
real
before
we
actually
employ
them.
You
know,
we've
got
to
start
trusting
your
guts
more
and
he
thought
that
person
was
fictitious.
So
you
know
again
with
Dave
Daniels,
not
only
with
Dave
Williams.
We
couldn't
meet
him
and
there
was
jokes
about
you
know
him
being
on
his
yacht
sailing
away.
B
Cuz,
nobody
can
meet
him.
This
slide
is
important
because
what
happened
was
we
did
a
lot
of
work
before
we
sat
down
to
interview
this
person
under
oath
and
the
way
that
we
were
able
to
get
admissions
on
the.
Although
we
had
the
handwriting
analysis,
we
got
admissions
on
the
fake
people
was
because
he
couldn't
explain
that
dave
daniels
and
he
were
president
on
this
with
the
same
company
on
the
same
day,
and
then
he
had
to
admit
well.
B
He
was
real
because
he
was
sitting
in
front
of
me,
but
dave
daniels
was
not
real
and
neither
was
dave
williams
and
neither
was
Jason
Peters
and
neither
is
Ray
caffee.
There's
a
number
of
people
who
weren't
real.
These
are
the
interactions
with
the
city
and
part
of
actually
pulling
it
together
to
look
at
centrally.
Is
that
every
time
these
are
positions
of
convenience,
so
when
they
were
dealing
with
Toronto
water,
they
would
have
one
thing
they
would
change
it
and
I
found
that
the
staff
were
realizing,
there's
so
many
different
names.
B
We
can't
keep
track
of
them.
Who
are
you
dealing
with
stop
this
insanity?
Stop
it
stop
and
figure
out
who
you
should
be
dealing
with
and
if
you're
having
a
problem,
get
them
in
to
talk
about
it
and
find
out
what
their
role
is
so
follow
that
gut
feel
I
guess
is
the
best
way
to
put
it.
These.
Are
the
people
you'll
see
if
Dave,
Daniels
and
Dave
Williams
have
the
same
face
and
what
was
disturbing
to
me
was
not
it.
B
We
had
this
discussion
with
this
person,
the
the
mud,
it
wasn't
simply
just
they
had
the
face,
but
the
descriptions
Ward
would
result
in
somebody
putting
confidence
in
Lissette
Daniels
to
do
their
fire
safety
plan
because
they
do
it
for
municipalities
in
the
GTA,
and
they
would
put
you
know,
confidence
in
a
fire
safety
engineer.
I
mean
that's.
What
I
would
want
doing
my
work
too,
and
so
this
was.
This
was
absolutely
disturbing
for
me,
so
we
mapped
out
the
companies
and
you'll
see
Dave
Daniels
and
Dave
Williams.
B
We
put
the
same
face
on
them,
but
everybody
who's
red
is
fake.
That
we
know
of
we
just
found
out
red
Cappy
appears
to
be
red.
It
was
appears
to
be
fake,
so
for
every
gray
box,
that's
a
company
and
there's
more
forming
and
the
buildings
are
simply
the
addresses.
So,
for
example,
the
yellow
buildings
that
address
is
used
for
York
fire,
advanced
fire,
advanced
fire
control
and
in
a
numbered
company-
and
you
know
purple
is
so
when
you're
looking
at
a
potential
fraud.
B
What
you
it's
very
easy
to
change
a
name,
it's
harder
to
change
a
building,
and
so
you,
when
you
start
to
see
this
frequency,
you
start
to
you
know
pay
attention.
The
other
thing
is
where
they
are.
I
mean
this.
The
the
black
building
is
actually
it's.
Actually
a
mosque
is
actually
a
religious
place
of
worship
and
he's
using
that
address
for
their
a
registered
head
office
as
a
registered
company
address
that
doesn't
make
sense
to
me.
You
know
you
wouldn't
have
it
in
any
other.
B
You
know
organization,
so
that's
challenging
and
the
person
behind
this
at
the
center
is
is
Ralph
Ahmad.
He
goes
by
Ralph
Iran,
so
there's
malt
multiple
challenges
and
the
reason
this
is
important
is
because,
when
the
fire
department
goes
out
to
do
their
work
under
the
province,
the
provincial
regulations
and
it's
going
to
lay
a
charge.
It
has
six
months
from
the
date
that
the
work
was
done
not
from
the
date.
B
They
discover
it
and
to
go
through
this
level
of
analysis
to
figure
out
who's
who
so
that
it
can
lay
the
proper
charge
is
very
challenging.
We
found
it
challenging
because
it
was
you
know
it
took.
It
took
a
lot
of
work
so
staff.
Definitely
they
would
find
a
challenging.
So
absolutely
we've
made
a
recommendation
that
the
city
work
with
the
city
support
the
fire
chief
in
working
with
the
fire
marshal
to
extend
that
time.
B
I
mean
it's
it's
it's
all
here,
poor
performance.
You
know,
these
are
all
warning
signs.
Indicators
forged
signatures,
staff,
raising
concerns
messy
invoicing,
but
to
prove
fraud
is
a
different
matter
to
find
the
documents
you
have
to
be
able
to
show,
there's
no
reasonable
doubt
that
this
can
be
happening.
The
guy
can
just
be
a
messy
operator
right.
Fraud
is
something
different.
Our
staff
are
telling
me
we
have
made
sure
the
service
was
done,
we
have
the
documentation,
and
so
now
we
don't
have
the
documentation.
B
I
mean
you
know,
and,
and
and
you
know
the
contractor-
you
know
he
has
his
systems
and
it
wasn't
mess
over
there.
We
we
contacted
employees
so
based
on
the
totality
of
the
evidence.
My
view
is,
this
is
definitely
high
risk
for
fraud.
Can
that
can
the
police
prove
it?
We
have
been
in
contact
with
them
throughout
this
file,
they
have
been.
B
If
we
had
everything
together
and
we
had
strong
witnesses
being
able
to
say,
we
never
received
that
service,
we're
in
a
good
shape,
fire
chief,
in
his
view,
the
deputy
fire
chief
and
the
fire
chief
and
in
his
view
of
the
Debora
fire
chief,
you
know
for
him
these
companies
going
in
they
have
the
public's
trust
and
it's
a
breach
of
trust
in
his
view
and
I'll
just
leave
that
there.
But
there
are
challenges
when
he
has
time
constraints
which
we
talked
about
and
there's
legislative
change
needed.
B
The
systemic
issues
I'll
go
to
those
and
then
we
will
be
finished.
The
city
inspection
results
didn't
come
back
well,
I.
Am
he
selected
about
12
buildings,
and
this
is
an
example.
So,
in
a
building
there
might
be
non
recording
of
information.
There
might
be
things
not
properly
filled
out.
There
might
be
things
missing
these.
This
is
an
actual
result
of
an
inspection
report
and
you'll
see
a
number
of
companies
on
the
side
and
one
building
can
have
six
different
groups
doing
inspections
and
the
challenge
with
that
is.
B
How
can
how
can
facilities
actually
manage
for
each
building?
And
it's
probably
a
two
thousand
buildings,
six
different
contractors
coming
in
doing
all
of
these
different
different
facility
tests.
It's
not
easy,
but
there's
probably
a
better
way.
We
can
do
it
and
there's
a
smarter
way.
You
can
do
it,
here's
another
here's
another
result
of
an
inspection
and
again
this
is
information
that
wasn't
provided
you
know,
so
this
just
gives
you
a
flavor
of
a
portion
of
two
inspections.
B
We
have
twelve
and
accredit
to
the
city,
they
were
rate
out
and
they
got
an
inspection
of
their
critical
buildings
and
their
critical
buildings.
The
red
shows
you,
the
paperwork
wasn't
in
place
or
the
test
wasn't
complete
or
it
wasn't
done
so.
This
definitely
is
a
concern
and
it's
relevant
because
it
for
me
it
shows
it's
not
a
situation
with
one
contractor.
It's
a
situation
that
we
might
need
to
do
things
differently.
We
need
to
transform
some
things
here.
There's
opportunities
for
improvement.
Absolutely
so
getting
this
information
is
important.
B
My
challenge
was
I,
didn't
receive
this
until
I
had
until,
like
I
think
was
May
25th
I.
The
work
was
done
in
February
March
timeframe,
maybe
March
April,
but
it
it
was
concerning
to
me
that
this
is
absolutely
relevant
and
it
was
a
result
of
the
work
that
I
was
undertaking,
that
this
was
done,
and
so
it
was
relevant
to
come
back
to
me
the
systemic
issues.
Again
we
mentioned
that
the
not
treating
the
building
as
a
whole
system,
so
things
work
as
a
system.
B
You
can
have
a
kitchen
extinguishing
system,
that's
attached
to
the
fire
alarm.
So
when
the
extinguisher
goes
off,
the
fire
alarm
rings
and
everybody
who's
in
that
building,
it
can
be
a
community
center.
It
can
be
the
kitchen
downstairs,
we'll
know,
to
leave
the
building.
You
would
have
two
companies
in
vain',
looking
at
the
two
pieces
and
not
coming
together,
and
what
happens
is
it's
not
in
compliance
there's
a
decentralized
siloed
approach
across
the
city
we
had
Toronto
Parks,
we
had
parks
water
and
we
had
the
the
facilities
all
contracting
with
this
company.
B
Many
having
problems
with
this
company,
the
right
hands,
not
talking
to
the
left
hand,
that's
one
issue,
but
the
decentralisation
of
the
management
of
the
buildings
across
the
city,
the
2,000
buildings.
It
was
another
issue
think
up
until
this
point
facilities
management
was
really
looking
at
about
200
of
the
2000.
If
you
own
the
building,
you
are
accountable,
that's
it!
So
we
need
to
get
our
system
together
across
across
the
board,
not
standardizing
inspection
sheets.
This
is
something
I
have
to
recognize
the
the
Toronto.
Sorry,
the
Canadian
fire
alarm
Association.
B
You
know
they
pointed
out
that
the
inspection
sheets
are
not
standardized
and
really
a
part
of
the
code,
and
they
probably
should
be,
and
the
Toronto
Fire
Service
I
dent
off'
ID,
that
their
old
standards
are
being
used
in
the
inspections
and
our
contracts
contained
old
standards.
That's
a
concern,
so
standardizing
the
inspection
sheets,
so
everybody
knows
what
they're
playing
to
to
make
sure
the
right
things
are
done
and
then
making
sure
they're
completed
properly
is
important,
centralized
database.
We
have
some
contractors
that
are
operating
inappropriately.
We
have
2000
buildings.
B
If
we
want
to
identify
who's,
doing
work
in
which
buildings
it
becomes
problematic,
we
don't
have
you
have
to
go
to
each
of
those
buildings.
You
can't
centrally
look
at
the
documents
if
you
can
find
them,
there's
a
challenge.
So
that's
a
problem,
the
complaint
process.
Many
many
people
knew
about
this
contractor
or
had
issues
with
this
contractor
and
nobody
really
wanted
to
talk
about
it
because
of
privacy
concerns.
There
has
to
be
a
mechanism
to
be
able
to
raise
a
problem.
B
This
contractors,
not
only
working
for
the
cities
and
municipalities,
it's
working
in
hospitals
under
its
own.
It's
working
in
schools
I've
sent
multiple
multiple
bids
on
schools
to
the
police
to
the
fire,
so
that
they
would
know
where
this
contractor
is
working
so
to
have
a
centralized
complaint
process
at
the
city,
but
we're
recommending
at
a
provincial
level
if
you
have
a
bad
actor
that
they
can
know
who
to
notify,
because,
through
this
complaint,
I'm
notifying
the
Deputy
Fire
Chief
who's,
notifying
on
a
provincial
building
the
province
and
I'm
notifying
my
counterpart.
B
There
has
to
be
a
better
way
because
there,
if
this
is
important,
it
has
to
have
a
focus,
and
the
last
thing
is
clarifying
roles
and
responsibilities
against
again.
Dame
Hackett
in
the
grandpa
report
mentioned
girls,
responsibilities,
everybody's
relying
on
everybody
else,
so
so
I'm
relying
on
the
guy
who
comes
in
because
he's
the
specialist.
Well
guess
what
he's?
Not
the
specialist
and
he's
not
accountable,
and
you
know
what
this
contractor
said
to
me.
The
last
thing
before
he
left
the
room
he
said:
I
come
in
I
do
my
job.
Nobody
died,
I
left!
B
So
this
is
an
example
of
the
six
built,
the
six
contractors
coming
in
various
companies.
This
is
York
fire
when
they
come
in.
They
have
access
to
our
buildings.
I
have
emails
of
people
giving
keypads
access
codes
keys
to
the
city,
various
city
buildings,
as
long
as
you
know
who
it
is,
I'll
pass
the
keys
to
Elaine
because
I
know,
Elaine
I
know
her
background.
I
know
what
she
does.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
who's
in.
We
know
who's
in
our
buildings.
We
want
to
know,
make
sure
we
know
who's.
B
Formed
I
saw
an
email
where
a
city
employee
said
there's
two
different
companies
that
come
in
or
there's
different
people
that
come
in
to
do
the
work
for
York
fire.
We
presume
they're
the
same
company.
What
really
I
mean
the
technicians
themselves
said
that
they
would
be
changing
t-shirts.
One
person,
one
TAC,
one
TAC
I,
spoke
to
more
than
one
said
three
times
a
day.
He
would
go
in
there
today,
it's
not
every
day,
but
he
would
change.
B
He
would
be
York
fire
when
one
time
to
go
into
another
one
and
he
would
be
advance
fire
detection.
He'd
go
into
another
one:
he'd
be
somebody
else
this
website,
you
can't
see
it,
but
the
whole
thing
is
trusting
your
vendor
and
they
put
out
nothing
but
trust
and
they
have
beautiful
people
there
and
you
would
want
to
trust
them,
but
it's
a
it's.
You
have
to
really
go
look
behind
the
company
potential
performance
issues.
It's
not
just
this
one
vendor
or
a
series
of
companies.
There
are
others.
There's
many
vendors
who
are
good.
B
Not
all
vendors
are
bad,
but
there
are
vendors
who
we,
the
city,
are
struggling
with.
It's
time
to
stop
that
the
amount
of
money
spent
trying
to
attract
these
people
and
to
make
sure
they're
doing
their
job.
It's
not
worth
it.
It's
the
risk
is
not
worth
it.
So
we
need
to
be
more
stringent
on
that
aspect
and
stop
awarding
multi-million
dollar
contracts
year
over
year,
poorly
worded
RFQs
it
starts
in
the
beginning.
The
RFQ
has
to
make
sure
they
that
the
right
standards
are
there.
B
We
didn't
have
the
right
standards
in
the
RFQ,
it
provides
an
up
or
they
RFQ
is
not
clear.
There
could
be
misinterpretation
so
making
sure
we
understand
it
as
a
city
and
making
sure
the
right
information
gets
in.
There
is
important,
the
lowest
bid,
so
I
know
we
do
have
the
opportunity
to
say
we
can
look
at
past
performance.
The
problem
is
they
didn't
we
didn't
look
at
it.
Pmd
was
questioning
the
past
performance,
the
past
performance
didn't
come
into
the
decision
and
these
people
would
feel
a
bit
like
50%
below
somebody
else.
B
You've
got
to
ask
the
question
you
get
what
you
pay
for
and
and
what
are
you
paying
for
and
potential
wrongdoing.
This
was
a
concern
for
me.
I'll
just
you
know.
Of
course,
I
know
the
city
gets
it
and
there
was
a
little
I
guess.
Maybe
a
misunderstanding:
I
don't
know
what
it
was,
but
if
somebody
comes
to
me-
and
they
say,
there's
an
issue
with
public
money
and
it's
a
vendor
causing
the
issue
or
the
potential
fraud.
B
It
has
to
be
reported
to
me.
It
should
be
reported
to
me
because
I
can
determine
whether
it's
management
involved
or
the
vendor
or
somebody
else,
and
that's
really
that's
really
important,
because
otherwise,
if
if
this
didn't
come
to
me,
because
somebody
was
making
a
decision
that
it
didn't
really
belong
with
me
or
the
other
vendors
that
the
Deputy
Fire
Chief
reported
to
senior
management.
If
that
didn't
come
to
me,
we
wouldn't
be
looking
to
this
degree,
and
those
vendors
would
be
continuing
to
do
what
they
do.
B
So
it
has
to
get
to
somebody
and
I'll
take
responsibility
to
make
sure
the
right
follow-up
is
done
and
the
fraud
wrongdoing
for
everybody
who's,
not
clear.
It
includes
allegations
of
fraud,
it
includes
mismanagement
of
city
resources
and
breach
of
public
trust.
So,
even
though
it's
a
vendor,
there
is
an
aspect
of
mismanagement
of
city
resources.
Our
staff
have
to
verify
that
the
work
was
done.
Our
staff
has
to
have
a
seamless,
end-to-end
system
to
verify
these
systems
are
in
place.
B
Our
staff
has
to
make
sure
that
the
work
is
complete
and
that
that
the
vendors
are
doing
what
they
need
to
do.
That's
mismanagement
to
make
a
decision
on
whether
something
should
or
shouldn't
come
to
me.
You
can't
know
that
from
an
allegation,
there's
no
way.
You
can
know
that
I
didn't
know
that
I
was
trusting
management
to
take
the
first
line.
Look.
B
You
can
only
know
that
when
you
get
in
behind-
and
you
start
to
understand
things
so
out
of
an
abundance
of
caution-
make
sure
that
you
get
it
to
me
and
to
summarize,
we
need
to
breathe,
bring
all
city
buildings
into
compliance.
We
need
to
clarify
roles
and
increase
training,
not
only
for
staff,
but
also
for
anybody
who
is
dealing
a
public
servant.
If
you
see
something
say
something,
we
need
to
develop
protocols
to
conduct
due
diligence
on
companies
that
we
trust
our
our
kids.
B
Our
kids
are
in
daycare
downstairs,
so
we
have
to
make
sure
we
know
who's
in
our
buildings.
We
have
to
make
sure
that
we
support
the
Toronto
Fire
Service
when
they
work
with
the
Fire
Marshall
to
support
any
issues
in
this
area,
because
it's
not
just
us,
it's
the
building
down
the
street
and
the
last
thing
is
make
sure
that
staff
concerns
of
any
potential
wrongdoing
do
do
come
to
us
fm
facilities,
management.
I
know
it's
been
working
hard
in
the
last
little
while
to
know
pull
together
and
they're
supportive
of
the
recommendations.
B
They
accepted
all
recommendations
and
and
I
look
forward
to
know
them
sharing
with
you.
What
they're
going
to
do
to
implement
this
and
I
just
got
two
slides
left.
We
talked
about
the
UK
Commission
into
the
review
of
buildings.
They
found
three
things:
ignorance
and
difference
and
a
lack
of
clear
responsibilities.
B
I
saw
those
themes
here,
it's
a
different
situation
because
we
have
a
different
building
code
here,
but
we
still
have
to
be
partners
and
chief,
peg
and
I'll,
and
on
this
he
says,
fire
safety
is
always
very
much
a
team
effort
and
it's
very
much
a
partnership
with
us,
the
owners
for
the
city.
So
we
need
to
do
our
share
and
I.
Think
sfm
is
on
board
to
do
that.
C
E
So
I'm
gonna
start
I
think
you
have
the
presentation
in
front
of
you.
There
are
coffees
I'm
assuming
so
we'll
start
until
we
get
this
logo
because
we're
just
gonna
have
to
then
over
short
of
time.
So
we'll
do
that
right
now.
So
thank
you
very
much.
My
name
is
Josie
sholay,
the
deputy
manager
for
internal
corporate
services
and
on
my
left,
I
have
Sharma
general
manager
of
facilities
management
and
on
my
right,
Marko
cocoa,
who
actually
works
on
the
business
management
side
for
the
internal
corporate
services.
E
So
first
I
want
to
say
I
want
to
thank
the
Auditor
General
for
her
support,
her
work
with
us,
and
we
very
much
appreciate,
and
also
the
fire
services
organization
working
with
us
throughout
this
process
too.
So
I
want
to
thank
Jim
and
Matt
too
for
that
work.
I
wanted
I
wanted
to
say.
The
first
thing
is
important
here
we
take
this
very
seriously
and
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
actually
clarify
that
here,
it's
important
to
us
from
an
overall
organization
perspective.
E
We
do
have
pockets
that
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
it
that
will
work
and
and
obviously
to
bring
this
to
a
different
level
of
performance,
but
I
do
want
to
make
sure
that
Tilly's
management
does
take
that
seriously
as
an
organization.
Overall,
we
have
taken
the
auto
Daniels
recommendations
and
we've
have
to
put
management
responses.
E
Then
we
have
acted
on
them
and
I'm
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
we've
done
so
far.
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
we're
going
to
continue
doing
and
working
from
a
citywide,
not
just
what
facilities,
management,
division,
perspective
and
I
will
also
talk,
and
it
will
be
focused
on
compliance
process
tools
as
well
as
education
and
training.
So
the
second
page,
which
would
be
your
I
guess,
would
be
page
3
on
your
it's
taking
action
on
fire
and
light
safety,
I
thought
less.
E
Compliance
on
FF
managed
buildings,
but
I
want
to
do
right
now,
so
I
want
to
focus
on
FM
itself
at
this
point
in
time:
Solis
management
division.
It
was
important
when
Fire
Services
went
to
do
the
inspection
and
the
review.
It
was
really
an
audit
of
the
of
the
overall
12
buildings
and
about
seven
of
them,
so
these
management
actually
manages
and
the
other
five
are
across
the
city.
So
that
was
important
for
us
to
understand
the
information
there
as
what
we
also
understood
that
there
was
documentation.
E
There
was
a
lot
of
limitation
around
documentation
and
we
needed
to
understand
that's
what
we
took
upon
ourselves
about
March
timeframe
of
2018.
We
actually
hired
a
company
called
arc
arc
is
a
is
an
company
that
actually
does
a
lot
of
us.
They
do
a
service
around
audit
audits,
in
particular
around
your
actual
information,
your
reporting,
so
we
hired
them
and
they
actually
be
asked
him
to
look
at
19
buildings,
and
these
are
the
critical
buildings
and
would
be
building
like
this
one.
E
There
would
be
all
the
Civic
Center's
they
would
look
at
some
of
the
police
buildings.
That
would
also
look
at
some
of
the
other
buildings
across,
like
unions,
st.
Lawrence,
Market
and
other
ones.
So
we
asked
them
to
do
that
and
what
came
out
of
it
was
a
review
of
the.
What
what
came
out
was
your
business.
Your
buildings
are
safe,
but
your
documentation
is
not
where
it
should
be
and
there's
a
limitation.
E
So
what
they
did
tell
us
was
that
arc
actually
came
back
and
said
that
we
had
about
70%
to
75%
of
our
documentation
on
file
on
fam
and
on
from
maybe
on
a
national
system
that
people
actually
access
versus
actually
just
in
in
national
building
itself,
and
they
also
told
us
that
you
know
about
20
to
30
percent.
We
had
to
actually
go
look
for
now.
I
would
say
at
this
point
in
time.
At
this
we
are.
Actually
we
only
have
two
buildings.
I
have
two
deficiencies:
that's
what
we
would
call
some
of
the
documentation.
E
None
of
these
there's
about
what
the
documentation
is
about
about
10
systems.
Six
of
them
are
major
systems,
for
them
are
but
I
call
key
systems,
but
not
as
major.
We
looked
across
all
the
systems
with
mark
and
art
gave
us
that
review
I
actually
spoke
to
the
Ark
owner
in
the
last
little
while
and
I
wanted
to
understand
from
the
Ark
owner
as
to
what
her
view
was
around
our
organization.
What
she
said
the
owner
actually
said
was
that
we
actually
had.
E
We
actually
had
a
really
good
approach
around
the
way
we
we
actually
have
safe
buildings,
which
was
really
critical
for
us
to
understand,
but
our
documentation
needed
to
be
obviously
looked
at
and
centralized
in
a
different
way.
She
was
very
positive
in
the
way
some
of
the
buildings
were
being
managed
in
pockets
within
the
f-m
structure.
E
So
I
wanted
to
also
state
that
as
a
as
a
group,
she
did
make
it
very
clear
that
one
of
the
things
that
was
really
important
to
centralization
of
information
and
that,
rather
than
being
specific
to
a
group
and
being
in
a
specific
building,
it
should
be
centralized
overall.
So
what
I
want
to
say
right
now
is
what
we're
gonna
bring
Ark
back
after
we've
done.
All
of
this
work,
bringing
all
the
documentation
together
and
I'm,
asking
them
to
review
this
one
more
time.
So
that
is
what
the
next
step
is.
E
This
is
a
very
key
step
for
us
at
this
point
in
time.
The
other
thing
that
facilities
is
working
on
too
and
it
will
be
working
on
it
from
a
citywide
perspective,
is
we're
actually
going
to
review
compliance
overall
on
our
250
buildings,
so
we're
actually
going
to
be
looking.
We've
asked
everybody
to
actually
give
us
the
information
around
reporting,
because
it's
important
for
all
the
systems
there's
a
report
that
is
required
at
year-end.
E
So
you
you
test,
you
inspect
and
then
there's
a
report
that
comes
in
for
the
system
and
then
you
get
compliance
right
and
then,
at
the
same
time
you
get
certification.
So
that's
what
we're
asking
for
all
our
buildings
to
come
back
to
and
then
what
we're
doing
with
this
particular
initiative
are
actually
adding
it
to
the
bigger
task
force
which
I'll
talk
about
from
a
city
overall
perspective.
E
The
second
last
two
bullets,
one
is
really
around
training
and
and
making
sure
our
staff
understand
the
importance
of
obviously
fire
in
late
life
safety
and
we've
trained
about
94%
of
our
staff.
We
also
had
the
Deputy
Chief
Jim
Jessup,
come
out
to
our
group
and
they
actually
did
a
presentation
with
the
group
we'll
continue
working
with
fire
services
on
that,
and
also
we're
going
to
be
working
with
our
vendors.
So
they
understand
what
the
requirements
are
to
from
an
organizational
perspective
and
then
the
last
things
are
on
tools.
E
We
actually
we
have
started
the
centralization
of
the
nineteen
buildings
from
a
central
repository
perspective.
We
will
continue
doing
that
across
the
board
and
it
really
is
a
shared
drive
and
it's
making
sure
that
we
have
the
quality
management
around
this.
So
that
is
the
requirement.
So
that
is
really
what
we're
doing
from
a
facilities
perspective,
some
of
the
key
actions
on
the
19
buildings
and
then
actually
aligning
this
to
the
bigger
citywide
review
that
we're
working
through
page
we're
going
to
page
5.
Thank
you.
E
Let's
just
I
want
to
talk
to
a
little
bit
about
what
we're
doing
from
a
citywide
perspective
in
the
back.
You
will
see
it's
an
appendix
right
now.
There
is
an
appendix
that
talks
about
how
many
buildings
we
have
or
how
many
properties
the
appendix
actually
says
that
we
at
the
end
of
the
day
as
a
group,
we
have
about
18
of
1859
buildings
from
a
division
perspective
from
a
city
proper.
They
were
both
643
for
agencies
and
corporations
outside
of
THC
and
facilities
has
about
270.
E
What
we're
gonna
be
doing
is
recruiting
a
task
force
we
actually
have
created
it.
We've
actually
put
some
folks
and
we're
going
to
work
with
compliant
groups
that
actually
do
compliancy,
whether
its
water
other
groups
within
the
organization
and
what
we're
going
to
be
doing
right
now
is
actually
looking
for
compliance.
E
So
we
actually
already
have
asked
all
the
divisions,
agencies
and
corpse
from
a
city
perspective
is
to
actually
report
to
us
and
we
actually
gave
them
something
to
report
back
to
us
on
their
compliancy
around
the
tent
systems,
their
reporting,
whether
whether
whether
they
have
the
reports
in
house,
meaning
on-prem,
we're
aware
they
have
them.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
they
had
all
of
the
reports.
E
Is
that
we're
going
to
be
working
with
fire
services
and
we're
going
to
be
doing
a
national
review
around
the
risk
and
what
buildings
we
want
to
actually
look
at,
based
on
the
information
that
we've
received,
we
are
gonna,
be
taking
corrective
actions
and
I,
and
that's
one
of
the
bullets.
That's
really
important
around
some
of
the
high-risk
buildings
based
on
the
information
that
we
have
received,
and
then
we're
going
to
get
a
third-party
review
to
go
out
there
and
actually
validate
what
we've
got
so
we're
not
going
to
do
twenty-five
hundred
buildings
per
se.
E
But
we're
gonna
be
looking
at
types
of
buildings,
certain
vendors
and
the
management
of
the
buildings
across
the
organization.
So
we
can
get
a
good
sample
and
it
could
be
up
to
200
buildings
per
se
that
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
as
a
city
and
working
with
fire
services
and
the
agencies
Corpse
and
divisions.
But
what
we're
seeing
right
now
is
that
a
lot
of
the
reporting
is
being
done
from
the
information
that
we
have
received.
We
are
also
going
to
develop
a
governance
process.
E
E
If
you
put
an
order
in,
you
actually
have
the
actual
report
and
you
also
have
the
goods
receipt
and
you
have
the
invoice
and
you
match
that.
That's
really
important.
Overall,
one
of
the
things
that
we
have
put
in
place
is
the
PM
system
within
the
facility
side,
which
is
preventive
management
system
that
actually
sparks
it
actually
activates
and
says
your
your
your
actual
requirement
to
do.
Inspection
and
reporting
is
this
it's
this
month
or
that
month,
so
we're
gonna,
actually
look
at
that
across
the
organization
and
see
what
other
groups
are
doing.
E
The
other
thing,
I
would
say
too,
is
we
are
going
to
be
reporting
back
to
the
city
manager
on
a
regular
basis,
we'll
be
coming
back
to
council
in
q1,
with
the
status
of
all
the
buildings
that
I
refer
to
from
the
information
and
that
we
gather
and
the
inspections
and
the
due
diligence
that
we're
doing
also
the
other
page,
which
will
be
page
six,
is
a
taking
action
on
fire.
It's
really
about
citywide
action.
This
is
around
the
the
duty
and
obligation
of
staff
and
I.
E
Think
you
can
read
that
on
your
own,
the
requirement
and
the
city
manager
will
be
issuing.
That
communication
see
she
has
actually
spoken
to
the
division
has
across
the
city
already
in
the
last
little
while
to
make
sure
that
people
understand
that
requirement.
The
other
page,
which
is
the
the
one
with
the
the
chart
here,
it
kind
of
just
talks
about
timelines.
E
Whether
it's
and
most
of
the
stuff
is
documentation
that
we've
seen
on
the
FM
side
and
and
then
what
we
will
do
also
is
assist
that
across
the
board
and
then
obviously
the
important
part
here
too
is
making
sure
it's
really
the
green
section
there
to
is
really
about
processes
and
tools
and
practices
from
a
from
a
city
perspective
and
making
sure
that
we
build
that
out.
This
task
force
will
be
reporting
directly
to
me
and
it
will
we
will
actually
start
it
up.
E
We
actually
started
having
that
discussion
already
and
we
will,
like
I,
said
work
with
the
groups
to
actually
increase
that
across
the
board.
So
we
can
get
the
feedback
from
all
the
organizations
and,
as
you
see
in
the
bottom,
it
will
continue
doing
education
and
training
and
development
across
the
organization.
E
There
is
no
building
safety
issue
that
we
have
seen
from
the
information
across
the
organization
at
this
point
in
time,
there
are
some
documentation
issues
that
we
need
to
work
through
and
I
think
that,
from
what
I've
seen
so
far
in
the
work
that
we'll
get
we'll
get
more
information
in
the
next
little,
while
is
that
we
have
a
very
willing
organization
to
work
through
this
and
make
sure
that
this
happens.
So
thank
you
for
your
time.
Thank
you
again
to
the
AG.
E
C
F
Wow,
thank
you
very
much.
Mr.
chair
and
I
once
again
would
like
to
thank
John
in
general
for
a
very
thorough
report,
but
this
is
absolutely
infuriating
to
sit
here
and
see
this
I'm
I
guess
the
the
first
question
I
have
for
staff.
I
know
it
was
mentioned,
but
to
be
very
clear,
is
the
fire
code,
up-to-date
in
all
of
our
city,
owned,
operated
facilities.
E
So
through
the
chair
counselor
the
fire
code
from
the
information
that
we
received,
we
would
say
it
is
at
this
point
in
time.
Based
on
the
information
we
received,
we're
still
working
through
our
deficiencies,
which
is
what
I
referred
to
earlier
and
as
we
get
more
information,
we'll
have
a
better
understanding
in
the
next
little
while
because
we
actually
have
asked
all
the
divisions,
corpse
and
agencies
to
give
us
this
information
of
what
we
know
so
far.
So
what.
E
Heard
from
everybody
we
have,
we
are
getting
more
information
by
the
time
you
get
back
to
Council,
to
tell
the
truth,
but
what
we
have
done
on
the
facilities
management
side,
working
with
the
team
on
the
19
buildings
that
I
referred
to,
we
have
compliance
on
on
the
we
have
compliance,
we're
working
there,
a
couple
deficiencies
on
the
other
250
that
we
that
you
are
asking
about
we're
working,
we'll
be
getting.
We
have
seen
in
our
data
already
outlines
that
we
have
a
lot
of
the
documentation.
E
E
We
have
FM
resources
are
at
this
point
in
time.
We
also
have
resources
across
the
city
wide
looking
at
this
at
this
point
in
time,
and
we
were
receiving
information,
whether
it's
from
TTC
or
whether
it's
from
TPA
or
whether
it's
from
other
corpse
and
agencies,
to
actually
give
us
the
information
as
to
where
we
stand.
E
What
we,
the
important
part
to
note
councillor,
is
that
we're
receiving
the
information
there's
the
reports
are
there,
they've
done
their
annuals,
which
is
really
critical
here
on
the
systems
and
what
we'll
be
doing
as
part
of
the
review
going
forward.
Is
we're
going
to
be
doing
sampling
of
all
those
buildings,
whether
it's
a
vent,
a
specific
vendor
type
or
mate,
our
specific
management
type,
and
looking
to
make
sure
that
the
audit
trail
is
there
to
make
sure
the
compliance
is
there?
So
we
have
to
do
that.
That's
the
next
step,
baddam
auditor.
B
I
can
say
at
this
point
in
time
for
what
I
know
I,
don't
believe
that
everything
is
or
is
in
compliance,
but
it
might
be
I
think
perhaps
deputy
chief
Jessup
may
be
best
to
speak
to
this,
but
from
the
documents
I
have
I
can
see
that
at
least
when
I
was
doing
my
work.
There
are
fire
alarm
inspections
that
weren't
completed.
There
was
information
was
completed.
G
Thank
you
through
the
chair.
What
I
can
confirm
today
is
the
12
buildings
that
Toronto
Fire
Service
had
inspected.
The
violations
have
been
corrected.
We've
been
working
through
that
with
facilities
management,
but
I
cannot
sit
here
today.
Councillor
to
your
question
and
and
issue
a
blanket
statement
that
every
building
that
the
city
owns
is
compliant
is
compliant
with
the
fire
code,
because
I
just
don't
know
that
if.
E
I'm,
a
counselor
that
is
the
work
that
we
will
be
going
through
as
what
I
was
referring
to
is
what
we
know
now
I'll
be
working
through
that
and
we
will
come
back,
but
but
what
we've
seen
so
far,
there
was
no
one
things.
What
we
want
to
make
sure
is
the
reporting
on
life
systems
and
making
sure
people
are
actually
doing
the
work,
and
that
is
absolutely
what
we're
seeing
right
now
for
the
information
we
received
from
the
group's.
F
F
B
Clarify
that's
correct
for
York
Fire,
but
the
other
company
advanced
fire
detection
technologies,
which
was
also
part
of
the
complaint
in
2017
it
was,
it
won
the
bid
award
and
because
the
fire
charges
that
had
gone
out
it
was
it
was.
The
contract
wasn't
extended,
so
the
charges
went
out,
May,
31st
and
the
contract
was
due
to
go.
I
think
June
1st.
If
that
didn't
happen,
can
we
stop?
We
stop
that,
but
so
the
company
continued.
It
still
went
through
the
city
systems.
We
did
it's
human
be
said.
B
Is
there
any
performance
issues
with
advanced
detection
technologies,
no
issues
and
that's
when
the
bid
was
awarded
so
for
clarity?
It's
still
in
the
system,
but
technically
they're,
not
they
don't
have
a
contract
with
the
city
right
now
those
companies
are
still
in
operation,
though,
and
they're
just
not
working
with
the
cities.
There.
C
I,
do
I'm
more
so
counselor
forward.
What
I'd
like
to
do
is
just
a
second
rotate
through
the
committee
with
Metis
consent,
I'd
like
to
have
a
build-off
or
counselor
forward
a
second
round
of
questions.
If
we're
okay,
I
think
so,
let's
go
through
the
committee
and
then
we
can
do
a
rotation
and
then
we'll
come
back.
That
would
be
great.
Okay.
Thank
you.
A
Through
mr.
chair
I,
I
heard
a
lot
and,
with
all
due
respect,
Josie
I
heard
a
lot
of
how
we're
doing
things
well
now
and
and
all
the
good
things
we're
doing
across
the
city.
But
I
did
what
I'm
upset
about
frankly
is
that
I
did
not
hear
once
in
that
presentation.
Well,
staff
did
say
that
they
take
this
seriously.
I
didn't
see
it
demonstrated
in
the
response.
I
did
not
hear
once
what
steps
are
being
taken
to
hold
management
staff
to
account
for
this
three-alarm
screw-up.
A
What
steps
have
been
taken
to
ensure
that
this
cannot
happen
again
with
those
individuals?
Have
people
been
fired?
Have
people
been
taken
to
task?
What
has
happened?
I'm
looking
at
I'm,
looking
at
evidence
of
when,
when
my
family
and
I
go
out,
and
we
look
for
a
contract
to
do
something
in
their
home
or
what-have-you,
we
go
into
home
stars.
We
asked
for
references.
A
We
talked
to
friends
we
like
if
I
went
to
this
website,
which
I
can't
even
find
anymore
for
York
Fire,
for
example,
and
I
see
these
such
obvious
stock
photos
with
with
bizarre
grammatical
effects,
everybody
looking
like
a
Ken
or
Barbie
doll
with
various
names
and
like
I,
wouldn't
have
hired
them
in
the
first
place.
Nevermind
then,
when
somebody
actually
tried
to
blow
the
whistle.
Not
only
was
that
effort
stunted,
they
weren't
taken
seriously,
no
actually
where's
the
accountability
so.
C
C
E
So
so
it's
a
fair
question.
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
I
do
take
this
very
seriously.
This
is
very
important
for
us
to
actually
manage
this,
so
I
would
say
two
things
before
we
would
go
in-camera
in
this
discussion.
We
actually
outside
of
actually
doing
a
training
develop
that
we
talked
about.
We
have
actually
done
an
organizational
change
based
on
the
auditors,
General's
recommendations,
and
we
can
take
that
in
camera.
Okay,.
A
That's
good
to
know,
please
understand
in
the
response
that
I
heard
and
what
I
read
there
was
no
direct
comment
on
accountability
and
direct
accountability
for
individuals
involved
in
these,
in
these
significant
screw
ups
that
affect
not
only
tax
dollars
but
but
potentially
people's
lives
when
councilor
Ford
asked
staff
through
you,
chair,
you
know
are,
are
the
buildings?
Are
all
the
buildings
up
to
code?
As
we
understand
the
initial
response,
perhaps
at
maybe
out
of
context,
the
initial
response
was
yes,
but
there's
more
work
being
done
rather
than
candidly.
We
don't
know.
E
Why
so
can
I
can
I?
Just
I
was
talking
about
the
FM,
because
I've
been
doing
a
lot
of
work
on
the
FM
side,
but
on
the
bigger
discussion,
I
I,
actually
that's
to
work
on
working
through
Sol.
So
the
answers
we
don't
know,
we
don't
have
that
at
this
point
in
time,
no
I,
that's
what
that's
why
we're
working
through
this
so.
A
A
That's
even
further
demonstrated
during
in-camera
session
that
genuine
actions
are
being
taken,
because
I
also
want
to
make
sure
that
that
individuals
who
work
for
us
know
that
if
they
do
make
an
effort
to
whistle
bone,
we've
had
these
conversations
in
the
past
out
of
committee
meetings
that
there
is
a
safe
place
to
go
and
that
they
will
be
taken
seriously
and
I.
Don't
see
any
evidence
of
that
happening
in
this.
E
Case
councillor
Matt
Lowe,
it's
important
to
note.
We
actually
met
with
Stan
and
we're
very
clear
with
them.
If
they
believe
that
there
is
any
wrongdoing
happening,
they
have
to
go
directly,
they
have,
they
should
go
right
to
the
otter
general.
They
do
not
have
to
go
through
other
groups.
They
should
be
able
to
be
able
to
do
that,
so
we
have
actually,
that
was
on
the
FM
side.
I'm
just
I
want
to
be
really
clear.
We've
got
two
sometimes
they're
gonna
go
to
their
manager.
That's
there.
A
E
D
Picking
up
on
what
the
AG
said,
you
know
this
matter
is
already
being
dealt
with
by
Toronto
Fire,
which
is
terrific
and
from
what
the
AG
said.
I
understand,
Toronto
Police
is
taking
a
look
at
it,
so
that's
eliminated
a
whole
bunch
of
my
questions
glad
to
hear
that,
hopefully,
the
vendor
will
get
what's
coming
to
him.
On
page
six
of
the
report,
you
know
you
reference
the
AG's
report
once
again,
like
my
usual
stance
on
these
things
of
2005
and
a
lot
of
the
things
that
have
occurred
in
this.
D
Where
would
have
been
addressed
if
the
recommendations
back
in
2005
had
have
been
followed
up,
but
I'll
skip
over
that
on
page
five
of
your
report,
there's
a
comment
in
there
that
staff
said:
there's
a
need
to
trust
the
vendor.
Did
that
raise
any
red
flags
with
you.
Just
that
comment,
trust
the
vendor
to.
B
Put
things
in
context:
we
do
have
vendors
in
our
buildings
and
they,
you
know
they're
if
they're
checking
batteries
and
life
they're,
obviously
all
over
the
building.
So
there's
a
certain
amount
of
trust.
It
has
to
be
placed
in
any
vendor
that
works
with
people.
I
think
what
was
surprising
to
me
was
the
lack
of
due
diligence
before
hiring
the
vendor
when
they
come
onto
site
to
make
sure
that
they
are,
they
do
have
a
their
qualifications.
It
is
the
right
person
that
they
are
licensed
to
do.
B
Many
of
the
allegations
were
that
the
people
doing
the
fire,
alarms,
testing
I,
didn't
find
it
in
our
buildings,
but
that
they
weren't
licensed
to
the
way
they
needed
to
be
so.
I
think
that
pre
work
and
then
do
legends
I
mean,
if
you
think
about
this
building
and
the
city
as
your
home,
and
somebody
arrives
at
the
door
with
a
different
shirt
on
or
if
they
arrive
from
a
different
company.
Or
would
you
would
you
let
them
in
to
look
at
your
your
electrical
box?
B
You,
wouldn't
you
would
not,
and
so
I
think
it's
really
applying
that
I
think
our
staff
are
absolutely
smart
enough
I
think
they
work
very
hard,
and
this
is
one
aspect
of
a
very
big
thing,
but
making
sure
that
your
diligence
is
done
from
the
procurement
side
as
they
go
through
it
and
obviously,
when
they
arrive
on
site
is
I,
think
a
lesson
for
all
of
us.
It.
D
On
page
37
of
your
report,
you
asked
the
manager
why
the
concerns
of
the
life
safety
supervisor
were
not
followed
up,
and
the
comment
back
was,
he
could
be
persnickety,
which
you
know
means
he's.
Maybe
too
fussy
I
would
want
my
life
safety
supervisor
to
be
too
fussy.
I'd
want
that
I
wonder
why
the
manager
would
take
that
position.
What.
B
B
I
can
say
is
that
in
every
single
circumstance
so
because
he
did
have
in
his
emails,
I
spoke
with
him.
I
actually
had
the
deputy
fire
chief,
go
out
and
verify
vendor
other
vendors
and
with
comments
that
he
had
made
and
he
was
100%
correct
and
he
wasn't
persnickety.
But
what
he
said
was
wrong
is
actually
wrong
and.
D
D
B
They
became
aware
I
believe
there's
people
in
the
process.
I
think
what
was
concerning
for
me
about
this
aspect
is
that
if
somebody
saying
that
these
systems
are
not
being
looked
at
forget
about
the
payment
side,
it's
got
the
overpayment.
Somebody
has
to
look
at
them.
I
think
that
was
a
concern
for
me.
So
when
we
would
facilities
management,
senior
team
people
that
are
here
today
confirmed
to
me
that
they
didn't
go
back
to
check
the
health
and
safety
even
after
it
was
reported,
even
in
June
2017,
to
make
sure
it
was
done.
B
Don't
know
and-
and
that's
that's
definitely
a
breakdown
on
the
process,
but
even
around
that
around
those
charges
like
that
aside,
the
the
history
of
issues
with
these
vendors-
it's
it's
there,
it's
just
not
getting.
The
check
is
not
being
done
when
purchasing
says.
How
is
the
performance
everything
good?
It's
not
the
information,
it's
not
going
back,
even
though
the
man
some
managers
know
not
everybody.
You
know
if
some
managers
know
and
it's
not
getting
up
so
that
has
to
be
fixed
just.
D
D
D
B
B
In
fact,
the
actual
or
can
I
ask
the
Toronto
Fire
Service
inspectors,
who
went
out
reported
on
more
than
one
occasion
that
they
didn't
feel
facilities,
management,
understood
the
reporting
requirements
for
weekly
monthly
and
yearly
annual
factions.
So
that's
it's
not
just
my
opinion.
It's
it's
corroborated
with
at
that
time.
I
think
that
the
world
is
probably
changing
a
bit
and
I
think
that's
that's
good.
Thank.
C
You
I'm
gonna,
ask
a
couple
of
questions.
Then
it
will
rotate
around
through
the
committee
again
I
think
my
my
questions
are
for
Deputy
Chief
Joseph,
sir
I,
wonder
if
you
could
explain
to
us
a
little
bit
about
what
you
found
in
the
twelve
buildings
that
you
reviewed
or
surveyed
I
are
I.
Guess,
did
you
actually
inspect
them?
I
think
you
worked
in
conjunction
with
facilities.
What
were
the
types
of
deficiencies
you
mentioned,
they've
been
fixed,
but
what
did
you
see
out
of
the
12
buildings?
How
widespread
were
the
issues?
Thank.
G
You
for
the
question
and
through
the
chair
just
so
I
can
keep
a
clear
line
with
our
regulatory
role.
So
when
I
conducted
the
or
directed
the
conduction
of
the
12
inspections
in
our
investigation,
it
was
not
with
facilities
that
was
under
my
independent
or
the
Chiefs
independent
authority.
So
I
just
just
to
be
clear
on
that.
G
So
counselor,
it's
really
important
to
note
and
I
will
say:
Toronto
Fire
Service
has
been
very
clear,
regardless
of
whether
you're
in
a
private
building
or
a
city
building,
we
will
not
leave
there's
what
we
call
an
immediate
threat
to
life,
so
we
did
not
note
any
conditions
inside
any
of
the
12
buildings
that
we
came
across
that
would
have
deemed
or
met
the
threshold
under
the
fire
protection
and
Prevention
Act
as
an
immediate
threat
to
life.
So
we
didn't
have
to
close
a
building.
We
didn't
have
to
institute
immediate
fire
watches.
G
That
being
said,
we
did
note
numerous
violations
of
the
fire
code.
Mr.
Lee's
correct
a
significant
portion
of
those
were
failing
to
keep
records,
but
we
also
noted
that
the
tests
and
inspections
that
were
also
being
completed
were
not
being
completed
as
required
by
the
fire
code.
So
if
I
can
give
you
an
example,
smoke
sensitivity,
testing
is
required
on
smoke
detectors
in
the
building
and
when
my
staff
spent
the
countless
hours
that
they
did
going
over
the
documentation
and
cross-referencing
that
documentation
with
the
required
standards.
G
We
noted,
for
example,
that
in
numerous
buildings
the
smoke
sensitivity
tests
were
not
being
done,
but
they
were
recorded
as
being
done
or
they
were
recorded
as
being
done
and
we
found
out,
they
were
not
being
done.
We
found
similar
issues,
for
example
with
sprinkler
systems,
where
there's
there's
a
what
they
call
a
drip
test
and
a
flushing
of
the
systems
where
it
was
recorded
as
being
done,
but
we
were
able
to
demonstrate
that
it
was
not
done
or
if
it
wasn't
recorded,
then
it
wasn't
done
and
it
was
required
to
be
done.
G
So
the
the
violations
were
a
vast
array,
but,
as
I
said,
there
was
at
no
point
in
time
an
immediate
risk
to
the
public
or
to
occupants
of
the
buildings,
or
else
we
would
have
taken
action
as
we
do
across
the
city
on
a
daily
basis.
But
I
would
say
again.
We
know
that
issues
with
the
documentation,
as
well
as
issues
that
the
systems
were
not
being
tested
by
the
vendor,
as
required
by
law.
Okay,.
C
So
so,
if
I
understand
this
clearly
there
you're
looking
for
an
array
of
things
when
you
conduct
an
inspection
and
part
of
them
are
the
the
records.
So
the
fire
inspector
comes
in
and
says,
show
me
the
book
or
show
me
the
banker's
box
with
all
of
the
records.
I
think
it's
for
two
years
and
you
want
to
see
that
all
this
work
has
been
done.
But
you
went
further
than
that
and
you
went
to
look
to
see
if
the
actual
work
had
been
performed.
G
The
chair,
the
documentation,
was
problematic.
We
haven't
experienced
that
kind
of
challenge
over
a
over
a
specific
building
owner,
certainly
in
a
number
of
years.
So
absolutely
the
documentation
was
problematic.
I
will
say,
though,
counselor,
that
the
level
of
work
that
Toronto
Fire
Service
did
on
this
file
is
not
something
that
is
normally
done.
G
You
know
we
normally,
as
do
all
fire
services,
have
to
take
the
word
of
vendors
when
they
perform
tests.
If
my
staff
was
to
go
out
and
do
this
type
of
thorough
work
on
every
single
building
to
every
single
level
candidly
I
would
the
fire
chief
would
be
coming
forward
with
a
massive
budget
request
for
additional
staff,
so
we
actually
have
to
trust
what
people
tell
us.
G
That
being
said,
I
can
tell
you
as
soon
as
I
brought
this
to
the
attention
of
chief
Peggy
OTT
immediately
him
and
I
have
implemented
additional
processes
internally,
where
we
we
are
actually
now
starting
to
look
very,
very
deeply
over
randomly
selected
buildings
citywide,
because
we
now
have
discovered
a
huge
problem
and,
as
the
auditor
said,
I
can
absolutely
tell
you
it
doesn't
stop
here.
So
the
Toronto
Fire
Service
investigation
is
ongoing.
You
know
we
still
are.
G
It's
still
an
active
investigation,
but
you
know
to
answer
your
question,
the
the
the
the
the
level
of
detail
that
we
had
to
get
into
in
terms
of
the
tests
of
the
system.
You
know
one
of
the
examples
that
really
stood
out
in
my
mind
was
on
one
of
the
reports.
It
said
it
was
the
same
detector
in
the
same
location.
On
the
same
25th
floor.
You
know
heating
duct
the
same
time.
G
Three
years
in
a
row
doesn't
work
so
that
just
doesn't
make
sense
to
us
and
that
allowed
my
staff
to
keep
digging
further
and
further
and
further.
So
to
be
fair.
We
have
never
spent
this
type
of
time,
analyzing,
line-by-line
the
work
being
done
by
vendors.
It's
something
that
we
have.
You
know
we
need
to
take
people
at
their
word
and
unfortunately
we
no
longer
do
that
anymore.
F
And
thank
you
mr.
chair,
so
I
know
there
were
a
few
questions.
I
found
in
this
particular
manager
that
I
understand
in
you
know,
concession
the
answers
are
a
little
sensitive
and
we
may
have
to
do
in
camera.
But
what
is
in
public
is
that
managers
quotes
that
are
in
these
documents,
saying
I
think
it
was
from
yelling
in
general
and
I.
Don't
want
a
paraphrase,
but
I
was
pretty
close
to
I,
come
to
work,
I
leave
and
no
one
died.
That
cannot
be
the
standard
we
hold.
Our
managers
to
I.
F
F
Sorry
so
I
will
not
retract
that
question.
So
I
guess
this
is
more
to
our
triangle:
fire
service,
so
the
regulations
on
vendors
working
on
fire
life
safety,
not
not
as
an
incredibly
important
job
to
him
and
and
regulations,
and
licensing
from
your
from
the
fire
marshal's
office
that
regulate
these
companies.
Counselor.
G
Through
the
chair,
the
regulation
of
companies
that
test
inspect,
maintain
and
replace
fire
alarm
systems
is
regulated
under
the
Ontario
fire
code
through
the
office
of
the
fire
marshal.
That,
historically,
has
been
the
only
life
system,
life
safety
system
that
has
been
required
to
be
regulated,
despite
numerous
coroner's
inquests
making
recommendations
to
the
contrary.
As
recently
as
2017,
the
provincial
government
mandated
the
licensing
of
sprinkler
Outfitters,
so
that
is
now
new,
but
the
rest
of
the
life
safety
systems,
from
generators
to
commercial
kitchen
systems,
emergency
lighting
and
so
forth.
G
The
chair
that's
correct,
and
the
fire
chief,
you
know
through
the
recommendations,
there
was
a
recommendation
that
the
chief
would
work
immediately
with
the
provincial
government
in
sharing
what
we
have
learned
and
and
working
with
the
office
of
the
fire
marshal
and
the
minister
of
Community
Safety
and
Correctional
Service,
to
make
sure
that
you
know
we
we
assist
them
in
trying
to
close
some
of
these
loops
and
I
know.
The
chief
is
absolutely
are
prepared
to
do
so
right.
F
Okay,
so
with
the
charges
being
laid
there,
so
we
have
identified
individuals,
we
know
who
they
are.
Tario
fire
marshal's
office
knows
who
they
are
and
I'm
kind
of
going
through
a
broader
scope
of
public
safety.
Here,
I
assume
they
have
private
contracts
out
there,
which
I
think
we
need
to
be
concerned
about
as
well
and
not
just
our
city
buildings.
F
G
You
for
the
question
counselor
so
through
the
chair,
the
charges
I'm
watching
miss
Chapman,
the
charges
that
have
been
sworn
publicly
against
technicians,
directors
and
corporations
were
for
violations
of
the
fire
code
that
Toronto
Fire
Service
noted
in
a
number
of
private
buildings.
Toronto
Fire
Service
has
an
ongoing
investigation
over
a
number
of
buildings
within
the
municipality
right
now
that
is
ongoing.
G
Toronto
Fire
Service
has
no
authority
whatsoever
under
the
fire
protection
and
Prevention
Act
to
stop
this
individual,
the
technicians
or
the
corporation's
from
continuing
to
do
work.
At
this
point,
the
only
tools
the
fire
chief
has
is
to
swear
an
information
at
which
we
have
done
under
the
four
violations:
the
fire
protection
Prevention
Act-
that
is
now
in
the
carriage
of
Toronto
prosecutions.
But
we
do
not
have
any
authority
whatsoever
under
any
piece
of
legislation
related
to
fire
specific
to
stop
this
individual
or
the
other
individuals
or
companies
from
continuing
to
perform
work.
F
G
Councilor
through
the
chair,
I
can't
comment
on
on
Toronto
Police.
At
this
point,
I
can
say,
though,
again
the
the
authority
to
regulate
and
to
govern
specifically
to
the
fire
alarm.
Industry
falls
under
the
jurisdiction
of
the
office
of
the
fire
marshal
in
the
Ministry
of
Community
Safety
and
Correctional
Services
and.
F
C
Thank
You
councillor
for
board
last
the
other
committee
members
in
order,
I,
guess
councillor
Motlow.
Did
you
have
additional
questions?
Okay,
councillor
Hart.
Did
you
have
additional
questions?
No
okay,
so
we
do
have
a
request
from
in-camera
I'm
going
to
ask
just
a
couple
other
last
follow-up
questions
that
I
think
our
public
in
nature
set
my
own
time
here
but
again,
I
think
through
to
Deputy
Chief
Jessup.
Just
about.
Can
you
give
me
some
general
observation
about
what
you're
seeing
in
the
fire,
protection
and
inspections
industry
has?
G
So,
thank
you
through
the
chair,
so
counselor
100%.
It
has
sent
shockwaves
through
the
system
when
Toronto
Fire
Service
publicly
announced
the
swearing
of
over
90
charges
back
in
May
related
to
just
three
buildings
within
the
municipal
boundary
the
chief
and
I
received
calls
from
literally
across
the
country
and
certainly
from
countless
other
municipalities.
I
know
the
work
that
the
Auditor
General
has
done
on.
This
has
resulted
in
both
the
chief
and
I
receiving
phone
calls
municipalities
across
the
country
asking
you
know.
G
How
did
you
do
this
and
what
can
we
learn
from
you,
and
so
certainly
it
has.
It
has
absolutely
sent
shockwaves
through
the
president
of
the
Canadian
fire
alarm
Association
and
the
executive
director
was
here
earlier.
He
actually
wrote
me
an
email
stating
that
he
fully
supported
the
work
of
the
Auditor
General
and
now
she's
fully
supported
the
work
that
Toronto,
Fire
Service
continues
to
do
and
and
and
I
think
really
at
the
end
of
the
day,
you
know
the
chief
was
very
clear
and
I
was
very
clear
in
May.
G
C
You've
been
already
clearing
your
answers
on
the
implications
to
the
fire
service
at
large,
not
just
related
to
the
Toronto
buildings,
but
I
want
to
flip
over
to
to
the
DCM
on
this.
With
respect
to
the
tension
that
this
is
going
to
cause
on
your
ability
to
deliver
services
and
I'll
say
it's
twofold.
C
The
first
is
now
you've
got
to
deal
with
trying
to
get
vendors
in
to
conduct
inspections,
when
probably
everyone
and
their
brother
in
the
world
is
now
trying
to
get
inspections
done
so
so
you'll
have
that
pressure,
but
you
also
have
the
obvious
pressure
of
you
know
councillors
with
questions
about.
Well
what
about
the
facilities
in
my
ward
and
the
public
questions
about
what's
going
on
in
our
facilities?
You
know
what
do
we
know?
How
fast
can
we
know
it?
I
guess
my
basic
question
to
you
is
as
a
council,
regardless
of
this
auditor's
report.
C
What
can
we
do
to
support
you
to
get
to
those
answers,
because
the
objective
is
is
to
get
everything
into
a
compliant
state,
everything
into
a
safe
State
and
deal
with
the
pressures
that
this
issue
with
this
vendor
has
caused?
Not
even
withstanding,
what's
in
the
Auditor
General's
report,
is
it
staff
as
it
resources?
What
is
it
you
need
so.
E
Thank
you
for
the
question,
sure
I
guess
the
key
thing
is
we
are.
We
are
going
to
actually
request
that
we
would
actually
sole
source
and
get
some
work
done.
Your
ASAP
with
some
of
the
work
that's
required
with
some
of
these
vendors,
especially
the
auditing
part
that
I
want
to
do,
and
that
would
be
looking
at
the
counselor,
the
actual
vendor.
The
where
the
vendors
are
today
will
some
of
them.
We
want
to
go
look
at
the
buildings
and
sampling.
E
E
The
other
thing
that
we
are
going
to
be
doing
and
that's
we're
looking
at
the
way
in
which
we
do
this
from
an
overall
task
force
perspective
and
that's
something
we
were
putting
in
place
immediately,
counselor
and-
and
that
is
we
are
looking
actually
right
now
and
looking
at
our
budgets
to
be
able
to
do
that
and
put
that
focus.
100%
on
that
and
and
and
our
our
job
is
to
come
back
and
and
give
you
guys
a
report
as
to
how
this
is
going.
E
We'll
come
back
at
Council
to
make
sure
councillor,
Matt,
Lowe's
question
that
he
had
around
the
buildings
right.
We're
gonna
come
back
and
tell
him
where
we
stand
at
that
point
in
time,
based
on
the
information
we've
received
and
then
we'll
be
coming
back
when,
when
council
resumes
again
with
where
we're
at
overall
with
the
buildings.
Thank.
C
You
yes,
counselor
Matt
low,
you
have
a
motion
to
go
on
a
camera,
so
those
that
are
visiting
we
will
require
the
room
to
clear,
we'll
take
a
five-minute
recess
after
the
motion
is
placed.
We
will
invite
you
back
once
the
in-camera
session
is
complete
for
an
opportunity
to
speak
and
place
motions,
but
I
will
thank
you
for
your
patience
as
we
go
through.
This
process
comes
from
Matt
low.
Mr.
A
Chair
I
move
that
the
Audit
Committee
recesses
public
session
to
meet
in
closed
session
to
consider,
if
you
consider
the
following
item
a
you:
13-point
11,
raising
the
alarm:
fraud,
investigation
of
a
vendor
providing
life
safety,
inspection
services
to
the
city
of
Toronto.
The
reasons
for
confidential
information
is
the
security
of
property
belonging
to
the
city
or
one
of
its
agencies
and
corporations,
personal
matters
about
identifiable
individuals,
including
city
or
local
board,
employees,
labor
relations
or
employees.
She
asians
and
receive
an
advice.
The
subjects
who
solicitor
client
privilege.
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
All
right,
the
Audit
Committee
has
completed
its
closed
session.
Consideration
of
confidential
information
related
to
the
following
item:
a
you.
Thirteen
point:
eleven
raising
the
alarm
fraud
investigation,
the
vendor,
providing
life
safety,
inspection
services
to
the
City
of
Toronto.
The
Audit
Committee
has
issued
confidential
instructions
to
staff
in
the
closed
session.
We
will
now
proceed
with
the
public
debate
on
these
items.
We
do
have
some
speakers.
C
I'm
gonna
go
first,
though,
and
if
I
could
ask
the
clerk
to
place
a
motion
onto
the
screen
and
what
I'm
going
to
do
for
everyone's
benefit,
because
it's
lengthy
is
just
paraphrase
it
followed
by
a
brief
comment.
So
item
number
one
is
to
allow
the
deputy
city
manager
the
ability
to
negotiate
and
enter
into
a
non
competitive
agreement
for
six
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars.
C
Number
four
is
City:
counseling
increase
the
facility's
real
estate,
environment
and
energy
complement
by
adding
five
temporary
FTEs
for
six
months
for
a
life
safety
task
force
number
five:
a
city
council
amend
the
2018
facilities,
real
estate,
environment
and
energy
capital
budget,
for
that
661
million
that
was
mentioned
from
a
reserve
fund
number
six
is
City
Council
direct,
the
fire
chief
Toronto
Fire
Services
to
report
through
the
2019
budget
process
on
any
operational
and
financial
implications
of
increasing
the
numbers
of
inspections.
We
talked
about
in
our
questions
today.
C
I
want
to
take
a
quick
moment
to
thank
everyone
involved
with
this,
of
course,
chief
and
deputy
chief
Jessup,
who
has
been
deeply
involved.
The
auditor
has
has
talked
to
me
about
a
number
of
people
that
have
assisted
through
her
and
her
team
through
this
report,
including
the
Canadian
Fire
Association
and
Peter
Hanlon
I'd,
like
to,
of
course,
to
thank
the
city
manager,
facilities,
management
in
Toronto
water
for
all
of
their
work.
C
From
the
management's
perspective
on
this
audit
and,
of
course,
to
Madame
auditor
general
Beverly,
Romeo
Beeler
and
her
team,
Elaine
owl,
Gerry,
shovel,
Hina,
Jaffrey
and
Laura
right,
I
will
just
make
the
the
brief
comment
of
I
was
a
gas.
When
I
read
this
audit,
we
we've
seen
some
incredibly
powerful
things
cross
this
table
and
I
mention
a
few
of
them
at
the
beginning
of
the
meeting
incredibly
powerful
observations
that
sometimes
takes
an
outside
view
to
recognize,
what's
happening,
but
drives
an
enormous
amount
of
change.
C
You
know
this
is
this
is
almost
a
pleasure
to
see
an
audit
come
across
rather
than
a
report
of
a
death
in
a
building
or
a
fire
or
some
other
catastrophe
where
we
would
be
looking
at
this
and
the
different
ones,
finding
the
same
issues.
So
thank
goodness,
it
was
found
now,
but
it
is
an
extremely
serious
issue
because
of
all
the
dimensions
in
this.
Firstly,
what
we've
learned
of
our
vendor
and
the
concerns
that
we've
got,
what
we've
learned
about
our
internal
processes?
C
I
can
only
guess
about
the
amount
of
work
that
our
facilities
staff
are
going
to
have
to
go
through
to
correct
this
because
of
I
think
it's
six
thousand
buildings
that
we've
got
two
thousand
buildings
cited
elsewhere
in
the
report
and
the
amount
of
effort
required
I.
Think
many
of
people
will
have
asked
many
questions
about.
You
know
why,
when
where?
How?
How
did
this
happen?
C
How
do
we
stop
this
from
happening
and
I'm
I'm,
seeing
a
lot
of
answers
and
I'm,
seeing
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done,
but
one
of
the
rules
that
I
want
to
make
sure
that
council
does
is
support
our
public
service,
including
fire
chief
and
support
our
facilities
folks
to
deal
with
this
right
away,
and
that's
why
my
motions
here
contains
some
references
to
some
Authority
and
some
authority
to
hire
people
it.
It
concerns
me
that
we're
going
to
head
on
to
a
council
break
where
we
will
not
have
the
benefit
of
meetings.
C
We
will
not
have
the
benefit
of
the
intervention
or
the
ability
to
make
changes,
as
we
would
as
elected
officials,
and
so
my
goal
with
these
motions
is
to
really
set
things
up
for
success
over
the
next
number
of
months
and
to
see
those
reports
back
of
changes.
I
really
can't
stress
the
urgency.
I
believe
that
this
needs
to
be
looked
at
as
far
as
I'm
concerned.
C
C
Maybe
making
people
feel
good
about
and
believe
in
their
city
government,
and
we
have
found
a
problem,
but
what
I
really
want
to
see
is
that
is
the
path
forward
to
fix
that
and
and
fix
the
confidence
in
the
system,
so
with
that
I
hope,
you'll
support
these
motions
and
I
thank
everybody
for
their
involvement.
It
is
truly
a
serious
matter
and
I
know
that
for
me
and
for
members
of
this
committee,
I
think
I
can
speak
for
them
that
we
are
taking
it
exceptionally
seriously
and
I
know
the
mayor
has
too
so.
A
Want
to
thank
the
chair
and
for
the
work
of
you
and
your
staff
at
uncovering
and
bringing
this
to
our
attention
and
I
also
want
to
thank
you
lien
and
are
you
how
would
I
refer
to
you,
acting
city
manager
or
still
or
I?
Don't
even
know
what
your
title
is
anymore,
but
really
and
and
and
the
deputy
chief
and
would
all
of
you
who
are
you
know
really
trying
to
address
this
and
I
Anniston
see
your
way.
I
said
earlier.
A
That
I
was
concerned
about
the
the
comments
that
I
heard
back
through
the
staff
presentation.
I
just
want
to
make
a
point
of
saying.
Well,
obviously,
I
can't
reveal
what
was
discussed
in
camera
that
that
that,
after
further
discussion,
I
became
far
more
convinced
that
that
that
that
my
concern
was
more
about
the
appearance,
rather
than
the
substance
of
the
actions
that
that
senior
management
are
willing
to
take
and
are
taking
and
I
just
wanted
to
address
that
publicly.
A
It
is.
It
is
almost
like
one
of
those
like
weird
Netflix
shows
where
you
just
say.
You
can't
believe
this
kind
of
mystery
that's
being
put
together
and
fake
fake
names
and
fake,
even
dates
where
companies
were
started,
and
people
coming
back
with
different
shirts
and
all
that,
like
it's,
it's
it's
absurd,
like
you,
wouldn't
you
if
somebody
actually
wrote
a
script
like
that,
they'd
probably
get
laughed
out
the
door
because
it
just
doesn't
make
you
couldn't
believe
it.
A
Yet
it
happened
and
the
fact
that
this
absurdity
was
then
by
the
City
of
Toronto,
allowed
to
then
turn
into
a
contract
where
people
got
tax
dollars
and
and
life
safety
was
potentially
put
a
risk
is,
is,
is
beyond,
is
beyond
disbelief
and
I.
Just
can't
express
it
more
and
I
think
we
all
feel
the
same
way
like
it's
just
remarkable
that
this
was
even
allowed
to
happen
in
the
first
place,
let
alone
that
it
did
happen.
A
But
I
am
confident
that
the
system
as
much
as
I'm
upset
at
how
broken
it
was
and
in
many
respects
continues
to
be
I'm.
Also
very
confident.
The
system
works
with
the
fact
that
we
are
now
discussing
this
at
a
committee
where
it
had
to
come
to
and
that
we
have
an
auditor
general
that
provided
accountability
to
this
and
brought
it
to
our
attention
and
then
a
staff
response
that
that
recognizes
the
severity
of
this
problem.
A
So
in
many
ways
it
lends
some
cause
for
optimism
that
that
the
system
works,
especially
when
it's
most
broken,
but
I
guess
I'll.
Just
conclude
by
saying
councillor
forward
earlier
brought
up
some
some
questions
again
in
camera,
so
I
can't
I
can't
can't
reiterate
them.
But
let's
just
say
you
know
tap
on
again.
A
You
know
where
there's
smoke,
there's
fire
and
I
think
that
we
have
a
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
we
address
substantive
concerns
even
when
they
are
directly
affecting
our
own
buildings,
because
if
it's
happening
there,
we
have
to
ask
as
public
officials
all
of
us
in
this
room.
It
might
be
happening
elsewhere
and
we
need
to.
A
We
need
to
support
every
effort
to
make
sure
that
there's
some
way
to
ensure
more
accountability
and
reliability
from
the
get-go
before
we
get
to
a
place
like
this
or
any
other
organization,
or
any
other
property
owner
in
the
province
of
Ontario
finds
themselves
in
this
situation
again
so
I
know
the
council
will
support
us
moving
in
that
direction
anyway.
I
just
want
to
thank
all
of
you
involved
in
bringing
this
to
our
attention
and
and
I
look
forward
to
further
conversation
to
Council.
F
Thank
you
very
much
mr.
chair
and
I
think
both
of
my
call
I
couldn't
say
better
than
them.
I
acro
their
comments.
Doing
the
one
thing
I
do
want
to
reiterate.
Bangs
being
said
and
I'll
say
it
again
to
thank
our
Auditor
General
for
another
incredibly
thorough
report
on
once
again
and
a
very
serious
topic.
This
is
something
not
you
know,
as
the
presentation
was
going
through,
I
think
I
was
sitting
here,
just
yeah
aghast
just
I
couldn't
believe
it
and
it's
you
know
it's
something.
We
need
to
take
very
seriously.
F
You
know,
you
know
fire
life
safety
whenever
it
may
be.
Public
safety
is
everyone's
responsibility
and
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
biggest
things.
That
really
is
that
the
course
that
bothered
me
hear
things
as
everyone's
responsibility.
Lemme
see
an
issue.
No
one
should
be
turning
away
from
it
or
brushing
it
off
and
should
be
dealt
with
immediately.
F
You
know
you,
you
look
around
the
world
and
there
have
been
devastating
incidents
around
lack
of
fire
safety
and
and
the
possibility
in
that
I
mean,
and
one
of
our
bill
means
is
just
unimaginable,
so
I
absolutely
support
the
motion.
Stephanie
mayor
holiday,
put
forward
to
really
get
on
top
of
this
and
I
do
have
the
utmost
confidence
in
our
senior
city
staff
that
this
will
happen
and
absolutely
not
most
confidence
in
Toronto
Fire
Service,
who
do
an
incredible
job
day
after
day,
under
the
leadership
of
chief
pag
and
new
deputy
chief
Jessup.
F
D
You
chair
councillor,
Matt
Lowe
mentioned
it
was
a
little
bit
like
a
Netflix
movie
or
Netflix
show
you
know,
I
kind
of
agree
more,
like
a
Netflix
horror
show
and
on
a
lot
of
levels.
The
good
news
out
of
this,
though,
is
you
know,
Toronto
fires
involved,
they've
laid
charges,
I've
got
total
confidence
in
the
staff
here.
I
have
total
confidence
and
in
them
it's
the
right
staff
to
be
to
be
dealing
with
this
issue.
I'm
thrilled
that
Toronto
Police
is
looking
at
it
and
I
hope
they
turn
over
every
single
stone.
D
You
know
a
lot
of
things
happened
in
this
report,
but
what
concerns
me
the
most
is
not
really
so
much
what
happened.
It's
the
way
it
was
handled
and
to
two
things
specifically
that
the
AG
was
only
brought
in
at
the
very
last
minute,
and
lots
of
people
touch
this
violent
and
could
have
brought
the
AG
in,
and
we
have
a
recommendation
for
the
city
manager
to
go
out
and
remind
people
about
process.
So
I
thinks
I'm
fortunate
recommendation.
I.
Don't
really
think
it's
required.
The
people
that
knew
about
this
were
making
six
digit
salaries.
D
They
don't
need
to
be
reminded,
so
I
think
that's
a
bit
unfortunate
and
the
thing
that
is
the
most
unfortunate
I
think
in
this
that
really
needs
to
be
looked
at
is
the
fact
that
staff
repeatedly
defended
the
vendor
and
I
can't
understand.
Why
that's
that's
my
most
concerning
piece.
Thank
you.
Jeff
Thank,.