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From YouTube: Audit Committee - May 11, 2018
Description
Audit Committee, meeting 12, May 11, 2018
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=13709
Meeting Navigation:
0:08:03 - Call to order
Agenda Items:
0:13:09 - AU12.1 - Toronto Court Services: Collection of Provincial Offence Default Fines (Ward All)
1:12:04 - AU12.2 - Children's Services Division: Opportunities to Achieve Greater Value for Child Care from Public Funds (Ward All)
0:09:03 - AU12.3 - Review of Toronto Transit Commission Procurement Policies and Practices: A Case Study to Improve Future Wheel-Trans Accessible Taxi Services Procurement (Ward All)
0:10:42 - AU12.4 - Toronto Transit Commission Response to Auditor General Report - Procurement Policies and Practices (Ward All)
0:10:10 - AU12.5 - Toronto Transit Commission - PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP 2016 Management Letter Follow-Up Report (Ward All)
0:10:27 - AU12.6 - Business Improvement Areas (BIAs) - 2017 Audited Financial Statements - Report Number 1 (Ward All)
A
A
Seeing
none
I
will
now
take
a
motion
to
confirm
the
minutes
from
February
7,
2018,
counselor
Hart,
all
those
in
favor
and
that
is
carried
will
now
go
through
the
items.
A
you
12.1
toronto
Court
Services
collection
of
provincial
offense
default
fines.
There
is
a
speaker
registered
and
I
understand.
We
have
a
presentation
on
that,
so
I
can
hold
that
in
my
name,
madam
clerk.
A
A
You
12.3
review
of
the
Toronto
Transit
Commission
procurement
policies
and
practices,
a
case
study
to
improve
future
wheel
trans
accessible
taxi
services.
Procurement.
Put
a
member
of
the
committee.
You
wish
to
move
that
councillor,
Carmichael
Greb,
all
those
in
favor
that
is
carried
au,
12.4,
Toronto,
Transit,
Commission,
response
to
the
Auditor
General
report,
procurement
policies
and
practices
we
have
a
speaker
registered
for
that.
I
will
therefore
hold
that
and
I
will
ask
the
committee
with
your
indulgence.
A
Perhaps
it
may
be
efficient
to
order
that
to
the
start
of
today's
queue
so
that
the
TTC
staff
I'm,
able
to
deal
with
the
matter
and
and
be
released
from
the
room.
I
also
understand
that
there's
a
presentation
available,
it's
been
included
in
the
package
and
I
wanted
to
know.
If
any
of
the
members
of
the
committee
desired
a
presentation
or
not.
If
not,
we
can
simply
have
the
staff
answer.
Questions
I
see
consent
on
that.
So
we
won't.
We
won't
go
with
the
presentation,
au,
12.5,
Toronto,
Transit,
Commission,
PricewaterhouseCoopers,
LLP
20.
A
A
12.6
business
business
improvement
areas,
2017
audited
financial
statements
report
number
one
I'll
take
a
motion
for
that
councillor,
Matt
Lowe,
all
of
those
in
favor
and
that
is
carried
all
right,
so
I
will
propose
that
we
will
go
to
a
you
twelve
point
for
the
Toronto
Transit
Commission
response
to
the
Auditor
General
report,
procurement
policies
and
practices
and
as
I
mentioned,
we
have
a
speaker
registered
and
if
I
can
just
get
a
confirmation
here.
Mr.
pan,
sir
welcome
to
the
Audit
Committee
sir,
you
have
five
minutes.
B
B
The
mayor
has
said
he
will
not
allow
that
price
to
be
known
until
after
the
October
election,
a
reporter
for
the
Toronto
Star
jennifer,
peg
lee
arrow
called
city
hall
to
try
and
find
out
the
price
of
the
Scarborough
subway
station,
and
she
was
told
she
will
have
to
pay
$32,000
to
find
out
that
price
I
thought
City
Hall,
who
was
working
for
the
people,
not
the
other
way
around.
I
would
like
to
know
and
I
think
the
people
of
Toronto
have
a
right
to
know
what
is
the
new
price
for
this
Scarborough
subway
station.
A
D
A
A
A
E
Okay,
so
I
just
want
to
say
by
me
speaking
at
this
meeting
that
shall
not
be
deemed
to
be
in
any
way
my
consent
express
or
implied
in
doing
so
is
fraught.
God
bless
her
majesty
the
queen
and
long
live
her
majesty
the
queen.
You
know
I
just
want
to
say
to
the
Auditor
General
just
what
a
wonderful
idea.
E
So
this
is
pretty
small
printing,
but
at
the
beginning
there
that's
the
inter
federal
interpretation
act,
definition,
section
section
35.1
in
every
enactment
security
means
sufficient
security
and
sureties
means
sufficient
sureties
and
when
those
words
are
used,
one
person
is
sufficient.
Therefore,
unless
otherwise
expressly
required
and
the
French
translation
is
Kashan
cochon
month
and
second
year
are.
The
only
two
cases
on
can
deleted
all
the
whole
sight
across
the
whole
country,
which
explains
what
surety
is
by
the
courts.
E
There's
a
Schmidt
plaintiff
appellant
versus
Gavril
effect.
All
defendants,
respondents,
1923
Kenley,
Saskatchewan
Court
of
Appeal.
A
surety
is
one
who
contracts
with
the
creditor
that
he
will
be
answerable
for
the
debt
default
or
miscarriage
of
another.
Who
was
the
principal
debtor
and
primarily
liable.
So
me,
being
me
I
love
to
ask
questions.
I
wrote
to
the
Registrar
General.
This
is
the
letter
of
the
email
at
the
bottom
deputy
registrar,
general
and
asked
over
and
over
and
over
again
and
eventually
I
got
a
response
from
the
deputy
registrar
general
for
the
province
of
Ontario.
E
Now
she
gives
me
like
one
two,
three
four
paragraphs
Mike.
My
question
was
where
the
sick
are
the
signatures
on
the
bottom
of
the
birth
certificate
we
get
in
anyway,
significance
in
relation
to
the
definitions
in
the
Securities
Transfer
Act,
for
endorsement
issuer
and
guarantee
her
response
was
I
am
unable
to
comment
on
your
questions
regarding
the
definitions
of
endorsement
issuer
and
guaranty
in
the
security
transfers,
Act
2006.
She
got
that
wrong.
It's
the
Securities,
Transfer
Act
I,
regret.
I
am
unable
to
assist
you
further
regarding
this
matter
now.
E
Remember
you
all
here
at
the
City
of
Toronto,
just
passing
open
by
default
master
plan
fashioned
on
the
government
of
Ontario
and
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
great
example
of
how
what
open
by
default
means
to
them
by
there's
a
difference
between
saying
we're
unable
to
answer
your
question
and
we're
unwilling
to
answer
your
question,
because
the
reason
why
they
don't
want
to
answer
that
question
is
can
be
found.
The
first
line
of
the
Constitution
we
have,
whereas
Canada
is
founded
upon
principles
that
recognizes
the
primacy
of
God
and
the
rule
of
law.
E
Well,
if
that's
what
the
supremacy
is
in
their
mind,
is
well,
it's
kind
of
like,
as
above
so
below
if
Jesus
died
for
our
sins
and
in
this
case
not
having
to
act
in
commerce,
and
so
does
the
crown,
because
I
just
want
to
point
out
a
while.
But
a
while
ago,
I
got
an
email
from
your
deputy
treasurer
Mike
st.
amant
here
he's
like
oh
I,
don't
know,
Derek
I,
don't
know
where
you're
getting
all
this
trust,
law,
accounting
and
banking
system
I,
don't
know
where
you're
getting
all
this
room.
E
So
I
I
asked
questions
of
the
government
that
he's
laughing
right
now,
he's
gets
for
it.
I
asked
questions
of
the
government.
They
don't
want
me
to
know
the
answer
soon.
So
in
the
future,
if
someone
finds
stuck
in
one
of
these
maritime
jurisdiction
courts,
Callie
Chapman
knows
what
I'm
talking
about
what
they
should
say
is
if
they're
in
these
courts.
What
evidence
has
this
court
being
given
that
I
have
any
surety
in
this
matter?
E
F
F
F
So
my
background
for
the
presentation
is
to
talk
about
a
little
bit
about
why
the
audit
matters
look
over
the
audit
findings
and
then
discuss
the
conclusions
that
we
found
by
way
of
background.
The
city
received
the
authority
to
collect
fines
back
in
2002,
there's
approximately
200
million
that
was
transferred
over
and
that's
1.4
million
cases
of
unpaid
fines
that
were
transferred
to
the
city
for
collection,
and
it
includes
the
provincial
offenses,
including
the
Highway
Traffic
Act,
compulsory
surance,
Act
city
bylaws
and
others
and
I'd
like
to
point
out.
F
At
this
time
we
received
about
1.4
million
dollar
case
of
1.4
million
cases,
and
the
city
has
been
working
on
those
cases.
They've
collected
I
think
that
the
balance
right
now
is
about
900
thousand
cases,
so
if
they
have
been
working
on
the
cases,
but
there
are
opportunities
to
tighten
up
and
for
improvement.
So
after
the
transfer
at
the
post
transfer
fines,
it's
a
972
million
on
post
transfer
fines,
but
651
million
are
in
green
they're
collected
and
there's
about
316
million
outstanding
that
are
in
default.
F
F
So
it's
an
important
matter
from
the
perspective
of
revenue,
but
it's
also
important
to
for
the
fair
administration
of
justice
finds
an
offense
this
fines
for
offenses.
They
help
to
encourage
deterrence,
to
think
for
people
to
think
twice
it's
to
ensure
the
fair
administration
of
the
law,
but
also
to
make
sure
the
city
is
paid
as
funds
that
are
owed.
So
the
objective
was
to
assess
the
framework
for
collecting
the
fines
and
to
look
at
default.
F
Fines
as
at
June,
30th
2017,
and
this
graph
simply
shows
we
received
a
balance
and
I
can
say
that
the
province
had
extreme
difficulty,
collecting
fines
when
they
had
this
issue.
So
it's
not
new,
it's
not
it's
something.
That
is
a
very
challenging
area
that
we
are
focusing
the
the
office
city
is
focusing
resources
in.
We
have
some
opportunities
to
improve
right
now.
The
balance
stands
at.
F
577
million
but
I
just
want
to
unpack
that
not
every
dollar
there
is
going
to
be
collected
and
I
think
it's
important
that
we
understand
what's
underneath
that
and
what
part
of
that
is
going
to
be
the
opportunity
for
collection.
But
this
is
the
amount
that's
in
the
provincial
system
as
the
debt
that's
outstanding,
so
it
is
a
real
number,
but
we
also
have
to
look
and
say
well,
what's
realistic
here
so
I'm,
going
to
turn
over
to
ina,
to
have
a
look
at
the
breakdown
and
to
unpack
these
numbers.
G
An
additional
93
million
is
for
collection,
agency
costs
and
it's
currently
considered
to
be
in
the
vault
added
into
the
provincial
icon
system
by
court
services
in
order
to
pay
for
potential
collection
agency
costs,
so
in
all
that's
577
million
showing
in
the
promises
integrated
Court
courts,
offenses
network
system
as
being
in
default,
and
what
Services
is
responsible
for
collecting
on
these
default
accounts.
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
on
that.
F
G
In
inside
of
this
map,
while
the
data
from
the
icon
system
indicates
five
hundred
and
seventy
seven
million,
this
includes
a
hundred
and
fifty
five
million
dollars
that
Court
Services
has
stopped
actively
pursuing.
This
includes
old
fines
over
20
years,
fines
that
relate
to
deceased
persons
or
bankrupt
work
or
organizations,
those
where
the
debtor
can't
be
identified
from
information
available
in
icon,
including
those
with
no
fixed
address,
and
the
Associated
victim,
fined,
surcharges
and
collection
agency
costs
still,
regardless
of
the
age
of
the
fine.
G
The
convicted
defendants
are
required
to
pay
them
as
debts
of
the
crown
erode
in
perpetuity
and
can't
be
forgiven.
In
addition,
management
has
advised
that
icon
shows
mounts
in
default.
That
may
not
actually
be
in
default
of
around
18
million
dollars
and
that's
related
to
cases
that
are
under
appeal,
where
the
fine
would
no
longer
be
considered
in
default
of
about
4.3
million
plus
the
victim
fines
surcharges,
an
agency
collection
agency
costs,
as
well
as
hate
some
cases
that
have
been
given
additional
time
to
pay.
G
It
would
no
longer
be
considered
in
default
as
long
as
payments
are
being
made,
and
that's
about
nine
point.
Six
million
dollars.
So
what
we're
finding
is
that
the
that
the
city
should
still
be
actively
collecting
on
332
million
going
to
the
city
and
province
together
with
71
million
dollars
in
collection
agency
costs,
for
a
total
of
about
over
four
hundred
million
dollars.
F
Just
going
to
add,
the
legal
services
team
has
done
a
lot
of
work
in
this
area
to
move
forward
the
agenda
here
and
the
timing
on
these.
This
slide
it.
It
helps
to
explain
that
the
chief
some
of
these
changes
are
fairly
recent,
so
the
tools
and
opportunities
that
were
bringing
forth
today
is
only
going
to
help
to
make
sure
that
the
collections
happen.
So
these
are
fairly
recent
changes
and
our
recommendations
aligned
with
making
sure
that
that
collections
happen,
and
they
will
happen.
G
So
this
slide
provides
an
out
an
analysis
of
the
age
of
the
default
finds.
It's
also
included
in
the
report
on
figure
five.
What
we
wanted
to
highlight
is
that
taking
prompt
and
action
is
vital
to
collecting
debts
and
at
June
30th,
2017,
74
percent
of
fines
and
default
have
been
outstanding
for
more
than
five
years.
G
F
We
get
your
audit
findings
and
really
there's
there's
five
buckets,
but
we're
only
highlighting
for
today.
It's
really
important
to
have
a
methodical
and
a
consistent
and
timely
approach
being
tight
on
the
timing.
Timing
is
everything
in
collections,
the
first
six
months
of
first
year,
fight
before
people
move
get
married
life
happens.
F
The
fourth
area
is
to
centralize
across
the
city
for
delinquent
accounts
receivable,
which
has
been
a
recurring
problem.
So
in
applying
and
looking
at
this
for
applying
a
methodical
and
consistent
and
timely
approach,
the
collection
strategies
really
have
to
be
defined
and
outlined
for
each
individual
type
of
account.
So
if
it's
a
high
dollar,
for
example,
maybe
not
alphabetical
is
a
good
way
to
go.
Maybe
using
the
high
dollar
to
apply
a
certificate
of
default,
also
looking
at
the
type
of
tool
that's
available
for
each
kind
of
account,
also
how
to
contact
the
debtors.
F
There's
a
lot
of
expertise
in
this
area
about
how
debtors
respond
and
so
making
sure
that
their
strategic
collection
in
place.
The
one
of
the
areas
that
we
one
of
the
tools
that
are
used
by
the
court
services
is
private
collection
agencies,
but
the
oversight
there
has
to
improve
in
order
to
not
only
get
information
back
from
the
agency,
but
also
to
where
they're
doing
a
great
job
reward
that
with
additional
accounts
in
the
third
area.
F
That's
in
real
need
in
court
services
is
to
modernize
the
use
of
data
technology
and
data
analytics
so
respect
to
high
dollar.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
this
actually
in
looking
at
collection
strategies
in
certain
areas.
One
of
the
areas
is
high
dollar.
We
talked
about
that
corporations
is
another
area.
Many
we
have
trouble
with
some
of
the
collection
tools
and
court
services
and
legal
services
have
worked
in
this
area
and
they're
going
to
continue
to
work
in
this
area.
F
Repeat
offenders
is
an
area
where
you
might
have
some
a
lot
of
accounts
where
the
the
person
has
maybe
no
fixed
address
and
has
a
lot
of
trespassing
or
maybe,
and
we
have
cases
where
there's
multiple
insurance
violations,
if
you
can't
collect
on
those
accounts.
The
put
next
question
is:
what
do
you
do
with
those
accounts
because
they're
still
in
the
system
and
so
looking
at
those
strategically?
We
provided
some
summary
information
within
our
report,
but
that's
an
area
that
has
to
be
considered
further
with
collection
agencies.
Prompt
assignments
is
important.
F
In
2008,
internal
audit
recommended
counts,
going
to
collection
agencies,
at
least
every
30
days,
and
we've
included
a
table
at
page
31
to
show
that
it's
it's
sometimes
three,
six
months,
it's
taking
more
time
in
the
collection
world
six
months
in
a
year
is
a
long
time.
Ella
have
an
account
sitting
with
respect
to
more
frequent
and
faster
rotations.
F
We
we
do
see
that
there
are
times
when
it
can
take
eight
months
to
rotate
accounts
once
they
work,
they're
pulled
back,
so
I
have
no
doubt
that
court
services
is
going
to
with
the
focus
on
this
continue
to
make
sure
that
that
happens
in
a
more
timely
way.
Other
improvements,
we
talked
about
setting
performance
targets
for
the
performance
of
the
agencies,
making
more
assignments
on
performance.
This
third
bucket
is
requiring
the
enhanced
information.
F
The
collection
agencies
collect
a
lot
of
information
related
to
better
address
information
when
they,
when
they
find
it,
but
that
information
doesn't
get
stored
anywhere
back
into
the
city
when
they're
finished.
So
we
happen
to
recreate
the
wheel,
sometimes
and
so
having
a
better
information
system
to
capture
that
information
will
be
important.
So.
F
Icon
is
the
system
that
is
used
for
collections
management
right
now.
It's
a
provincial
system
where
there's
information
in
the
system
related
to
the
court
offenses,
but
the
issue
with
icon
is
that
it's
not
a
great
collections
management
system.
We
need
a
better
internal
management
collection
activities
for
a
better
system
to
manage
the
information
we
need
to
leverage
technology
and
it
has
to
be
better
day
analytics
in
order
to
collect
in
a
faster
way.
F
The
information
like
that
we
have
to
use
the
information
icon,
but
you
can
have
your
own
system
where
you
get
a
flat
inter
flat
file,
interface
and
upload
and
then
have
the
most
current
information
in
the
system
and
the
better
analytics
on
that
information.
Icon
was
identified
as
a
30-year
old
system.
It
was
identified
by
the
Auditor
General
for
Ontario
as
being
deficient.
I
know
that
internal
audit
ten
years
ago
that
suggested
that
court
services
have
another
system.
F
G
So,
as
we
mentioned
since
2002
the
the
city,
court
services
and
legal
services,
as
well
as
their
other
municipal
counterparts,
Court
administrator's
have
advocated
for
a
number
of
improvements
to
support
collection
of
defaulted
Provincial,
Offences,
Act
fines
and,
as
a
result,
over
time,
legislative
changes
have
opened
and
may
continue
to
open,
new
or
improved
tools.
Continuous
improvement
will
promote
a
more
consistent
and
coordinated
approach
to
collecting
enforcing
fines.
So
we
did
find
the
Sun
pools
available
to
court.
G
So
weird
faults
where
fines
remain
in
default.
The
city
does
have
some
tools
that
its
disposal,
the
auto
general,
mentioned
that
most
defaulted
fines
will
be
placed
with
collection
agencies.
In
addition,
a
variety
of
other
tools
are
currently
used
by
court
services,
including
adding
the
fine
to
property
tax
rules,
filing
search
of
its
of
default,
providing
direction
to
the
Ministry
of
Transportation
that
drivers
licences
be
suspended
or
no
licences
be
issued
until
the
default
of
fine
is
paid
and
providing
direction
to
the
Ministry
of
Transportation.
That
license-plate
renewal
will
be
denied
until
defaulted.
G
Fines
is
paid,
but
we
did
find
that
there
is
opportunity
for
court
services
to
continue
to
improve
and
to
use
these
tools
more
effectively
to
support
their
collection
efforts.
Driver's
licenses
are
suspended
shortly
after
driving.
Related
fines
go
into
default,
so
approximately
77,000
debtors
currently
have
their
licenses
suspended
and
over.
Seventy
percent
of
those
have
been
suspended,
suspended
for
greater
than
five
years.
We
did
find
that
when
licenses
are
suspended
by
the
Ministry
of
Transportation,
that
it
appears,
these
suspensions
are
incurring
in
a
timely
manner.
G
So
when
they
get
suspended,
they
are,
they
are
happening
on
a
timely
manner.
Our
challenge
was
that,
with
the
information
we
had,
we
couldn't
confirm
that
all
licenses
that
that
should
have
been
suspended
or
were
thought
to
be
expended,
were
in
fact
suspended.
We
identify
cases
where
driver's
licenses
should
have
been
suspended,
but
we're
not
because
of
system
issues
or
process
deficiencies.
Part
of
it
is
that
the
system
doesn't
necessarily
identify
which
cases
actually
are
eligible
for
suspensions.
G
Plate
denial
has
been
a
single
plate.
Denial
has
been
an
enforcement
tool
for
vehicle
based
offenses
for
a
number
of
years,
so
things
like
red-light
camera
and
parking
tags,
single
plate.
Denial
has
been
in
place
for
a
number
of
years
and
then
in
May
2017.
The
making
ontario
roads,
safer,
Act
came
into
effect,
which
expanded
multi-plate
denial
to
include
certain
driving
based
expenses
with
a
conviction
date
on
or
after
May
1st
2010,
and
in
that
case
a
debtors
license
once
it
suspended.
Their
plates
also
will
be
denied
for
renewal.
G
Nearly
60
percent
of
defaulted
fines
related
to
highway
traffic
tact
and
compulsory
automobile
insurance
Act
nearly
60
percent
of
the
defaulted
fines
are
related
to
those
two
acts,
but
one-third
of
those
are
actually
not
subject
to
license
suspension
or
single
plate
denial.
So
if
Plitt,
for
example,
if
plate
denial
plate
denial
doesn't
apply
if
the
debtor
is
not
the
registered
owner
of
the
vehicle
in
which
the
offense
is
committed,
it
doesn't
apply
to
companies
cited
for
commercial
motor
vehicle
based
offenses.
G
So
legislative
changes
can
help
to
improve
the
ability
to
use
plate
denial
without
first
having
to
suspend
a
driver's
license
and
may
be
helpful
for
enforcing
payment
by
delinquent
companies
who
have
defaulted.
Fines
for
commercial
motor
vehicle
related
offenses
plate
plate
denial
does
work
when
you
can
use
it.
We
see
that
with
the
city
with
parking
tags,
and
we
we've
seen
it
with
some
of
these
red
light
camera
offenses,
but
we
recommended
the
city
to
discuss
with
the
province
to
determine
whether
it
can
be
used
more
and
in
particular,
for
comfort.
G
Since
2014
Court
Services
has
issued
3500
certificates
of
default.
However,
many
of
these
were
filed
where
debtors
did
not
own
property
and
did
not
know
have
known
employment
information
information,
and
we
found
that
court
services
should
focus
on
better
prioritizing
the
cases
and
accounts
which,
for
which
they're
filing
certificate,
II
fault
and
filed
them
on
a
more
timely
basis.
G
Defaulted.
Fines
can
be
added
to
the
property
tax
role
from
2010
to
2017
the
city
added,
approximately
4.9
million,
in
fines
to
the
property
tax
role,
and
there
there
are
high
collection
rates
on
this.
Plus
interest
can
be
charged
once
the
fine
has
been
added
to
the
tax
roll,
which
is
also
promotes
prompt
payment.
This
it's
especially
important
to
quickly
identify
them
and
get
them
on
the
talk
show
before
property
changes
hands,
so
court
services
can
improve
its
processes
to
identify
more
accounts
that
can
be
added
to
the
property
tax.
G
The
audit
identified
approximately
eight
thousand
three
hundred
eighty
unique
debtors
that
may
potentially
own
property,
approximately
30
percent
are,
these
are
pre
transfer,
fines
and
seventy
percent
are
post
transfer,
finds
legals,
assessing
whether
these
can
be
added
to
the
tax
rule
or
have
search
of
hits
of
default
and
writ
applied
to
them.
While
we
recognize
that
they
may
not
be
able
to
get
them
all
onto
the
tax
roll
or
have
writs.
G
F
And
I
would
say
that
you
know,
because
some
of
the
information
is
older
and
we're
tracking
down
some
information
that
we
think
might
be
missing,
but
we're
going
to
track
it
down
with
help
of
court
services.
Even
if
it's
half
of
that
it's
a
small
amount.
What's
most
important
here
is
the
process
by
knowing
this
now
it
can
be
more
current
and
a
tighter
process,
so
the
information
doesn't
go
missing.
We
can
put
it
they
can
put
on
a
tax
roll,
much
quicker
and
and
make
sure
that
the
search
criteria
are
much
broader.
G
G
There
are
a
number
of
debtors
that
don't
reside
in
Toronto
but
reside
in
Ontario,
and
so
in
2014
a
small
scale.
Pilot
project
was
initiated
to
have
by
court
services
to
have
fines
added
to
the
tax
rules
of
other
jurisdictions,
and
the
treasurer
has
indicated
that
further
expansion
of
the
program
will
be
pursued
and
just
recently,
a
new
agreement
with
the
region
of
your
community's
polities
was
signed
the
past
month.
F
So
the
third
area
are
opportunities
to
expand
the
current
approach.
We
just
talked
about
the
tools
that
could
we
used
a
little
better
now
we're
looking
at
the
opportunity
to
expand
the
approach.
The
first
one
is
CRA,
the
leveraging
of
CRA
once
you've
done
your.
What
I
call
your
Dunning
once
you've
contacted
the
debtor.
If
you
still
don't
have
payment,
what
happens
is
normally
a
flat
file
can
be
uploaded
to
CRA
to
do
a
set
off
normally
Provinces.
Do
this
because
the
province
has
downloaded
is
my
view,
I
think
it's
a.
F
We
share
the
view
of
legal
services
that
the
city
probably
has
standing.
We
need
to
work
on
an
MoU
with
the
province
to
make
this
happen.
I
can
say:
legal
services
and
court
surfaces
have
been
pushing
in
this
area,
but
now
that
I've
taken
a
look
at
it,
I've
spoken
to
CRA
I've
spoken
to
the
province.
I
think
this
is
an
area
of
improvement
and
in
court.
F
Fines
in
another
jurisdiction,
once
they're
uploaded
they're
seen
about
50
percent,
and
even
if
we
get
10%
of
the
fines,
if
we
can't
collect
them,
it's
more
money
without
more
effort.
So
once
you've
had
the
effort,
it's
almost
a
passive
collection
when
there's
an
availability,
for
example,
with
a
corporation
of
a
refund
or
a
GST,
or
with
an
individual.
So
I
can
I
like
to
congratulate
the
legal
services
and
core
services,
the
efforts
they
have
made
there,
but
there's
there's
another
opportunity
and
you
may
need
more
leverage
behind
them
business
licenses.
F
Sometimes
we
see
people
who
come
in
who
have
a
business
license
and
they're
renewing
your
license,
and
yet
they
have
fines
related
to
their
license
and
we're
saying
it's
an
opportunity
simply
to
say
remind
them
that
they
have
a
fine
and
offence
and
ask
them.
You
know
to
pay
at
least
you're
face
to
face.
They
may
have
forgotten
about
it.
Maintaining
regular
contact
with
the
debtor
single
played
a
multi-plate
denial
ina.
My
sister
daughter
general
spoke
to
having
the
plate
like
right
now.
F
So
I
have
for
an
example
of
a
private
school
that
has
a
driving
offense
with
a
bus
of
maybe
about
3,500
or
a
driving
offence,
or
it
might
be
a
a
vehicle
offence
of
some
sort,
but
it's
not
because
the
employee
was
in
the
seat
and
so
what
we're
saying
is
to
bring
it
home.
Somebody
needs
to
pay
that
so
legal
service
is
going
to
continue
to
pursue
that
the
property
tax
role
in
this
area.
F
The
legal
services
again
has
work
to
try
to
have
people
who
are
in
a
joint
ownership
situation
to
have
the
fine
attached
to
the
tax
roll
I
support
their
efforts
in
this
area
and
we're
going
to
need
some
support.
I
think
the
city's
going
to
need
some
support
to
move
that
forward
on
the
legislative
agenda
and
the
last
area
is
payment
incentives.
This
is
an
area
where
I
know
another
province
is
excuse
me
as
soon
as
you
have
an
offense.
F
If
you
pay
within
a
very
short
period
of
time,
1015
days,
there's
a
discount
that
happens
and
it's
and
what
happens.
Is
it
changes
the
mindset
because
you
have
top
of
mind
if
you
receive
a
speeding
ticket,
you
want
to
get
it
paid,
because
you
want
that
discount.
So
we're
just
saying
to
explore
that
and
and
that
we
we
think,
because
it's
an
other
problem
says
it
would
require
an
allegedly
change,
but
it's
an
area
of
opportunity.
F
We
have,
for
example,
collection
agencies
being
used
by
revenue,
services,
collection
agencies
being
reused
by
court
services,
not
necessarily
production
agencies.
Let's
get
together
and
we
propose
you
know,
working
smarter
working
together
and
to
make
sure
that
these
are
managed
centrally
and
there's
an
opportunity
to
monitor
I
modernize
and
leverage
technology.
F
So
our
issues
were
what
we
saw
across
the
divisions
over
time.
Was
that
there's
a
lack
of
really
a
consistent
collection
strategy,
there's
issues
with
data
systems
and
there's
insufficient
performance
targets,
and
we
thought
City
Council
probably
want
a
hat,
wants
to
have
his
finger
on
the
pulse
of
what's
in
default
and
centralizing.
It
will
assist
with
that.
F
So
this
is
an
area
of
potential
transformation
having
a
single
port
of
authority
having
more
complete
data
having
a
clearer
picture
of
what's
in
default
and
and
what
needs
to
be
brought
to
bear
to
help
with
those
collections.
It's
leveraging
the
experts
and
having
a
more
affection,
more
effective
collection
tools
and
performance
targets
to
make
sure
that
they're,
closely
monitored
and
one
suggested
approach,
is
to
bring
together
specialists
in
the
industry,
be
the
IT
specialist
collection
specialist
share.
F
The
city's
experience
and
then
working
together
to
leverage
the
best
out
there
to
help
to
solve
the
problem.
So
it's
about
sharing
the
problem
and
we
feel
that
those
recommendations
will
help
the
city.
So,
overall,
it's
important
to
maximize
revenue,
collection,
minimize,
the
cost
collected
and
look
for
more
effective
reporting,
city
council
and.
A
C
Thank
you
very
much
for
for
the
recommendations
and
your
thorough
report,
and
so
the
first
question
I
have
is
either
to
you
or
to
city
staff,
or
perhaps
both
this
is
a
lot
of
money.
You
reported
that
there
has
not
been
a
methodical
in
your
words,
methodical
and
consistent
way
to
approach
ensuring
that
we
that
we
receive
these
finds.
C
H
Yeah,
so
just
my
name
is
Rodney
Gilliam
in
legal
services
and
through
the
chair
to
the
counselor
I,
don't
know
that
you'd
get
full
agreement
from
court
services
with
respect
to
whether
there
has
been
a
methodical
approach.
I'll
give
you
one
example:
what
we
do
twice
annually
is
take
the
entire
accounts
receivable
file,
and
we
compare
that
with
the
property's
role.
H
H
Not
over
that
comments,
I
would
just
say
that
comments
specifically,
and
it
might
be
just
a
disagreement
in
terms
of
the
characterization.
Could
it
be
more
effectively
fine-tuned?
I
think
that's
a
fair
comment,
but
to
say
that
there's
no
strategy
or
there
isn't
a
method
to
it.
I
do
disagree
with
that,
because
there
is
a
particular
strategy
employed
on
particular
types
of
finds.
Even
the
155
million.
That's
not
actively
pursued.
Well,
it's
not
actively
pursued
for
several
good
reasons
right.
It.
C
H
H
So
what
happens
and
I'll
just
give
you
an
exact
or
per
a
ssin
if
they
get
a
large
fine,
say
the
fire
protection
and
Prevention
Act
they
haven't,
they
don't
have
their
building
outfitted
with
the
right
fire
protection
measures
and
they
get
a
big
fine.
Well,
then,
and
if
they
get
a
year
to
pay,
they
now
have
a
year
to
try
and
arrange
their
affairs
to
avoid
collection,
and
this
happens.
Okay,
so
they
might
sell
their
property
in
that
year.
They
might
wind
up
their
company.
All
these
types
of
things
can
happen.
H
C
I
that
I've
got
a
limited
time.
There
is
another
question,
I
would
ask,
but
yes,
I'm
gonna
want
to
have,
even
if
it's
offline,
I'm
going
to
want
to
have
some
more
information.
So
due
to
the
announcement
about
the
Blitz,
that's
going
to
occur
this
summer,
could
you
provide
me
more
information,
speaking
of
a
methodical
approach,
what
will
this
blitz
entail?
C
H
Court
services
is
in
the
process
of
developing
a
plan
to
pursue
that,
but
we
already
have
a
few
things
in
place
and
are
already
working
on
it.
For
instance,
there's
ovary
you
heard
the
Auditor
General
say
there's
over
8,000
people
that
they
think
are
unique
property
owners.
So
we
have
that
data
file
from
the
Auditor
General
and
my
staff
in
legal
we're
currently
reviewing
it
to
verify
whether
they
are
property
owners.
H
We've
already
identified
about
a
quarter
of
a
million
dollars
that
we're
gonna
add
to
the
tax
roll,
the
file-
it's
hopefully
being
updated
right
now,
and
hopefully
we
can
add
it
today
that
that's
just
kind
of
the
first
batch
that
we
were
able
to
look
at
we're
gonna
go
through
each
one
of
these.
It
doesn't
sound
like
a
blitz,
though
wait
so
last.
H
Saying
the
strategy
for
the
Blitz
is
being
developed,
but
like
we're
in
the
midst
of
responding
to
the
report-
and
you
know,
as
you
might
imagine,
that
that
announcement
was
on
Sunday
yeah,
it's
Friday
and
we're
already
working
on
it.
So
I
can't
give
you
the
full
plan
today,
counselor,
but
I
can
tell
you.
We
already
have
about
a
quarter
of
a
million
that
we're
getting
ready
to
add
to
the
tax
roll
and
that's
really
just
a
first
chunk.
We
expect
there's
gonna
be
quite
a
few
more.
I
Add
to
that
counselor
I'm
Susan
carry
with
us.
You
know
with
court
services
that
we're
going
to
be
leveraging
the
recent
agreement
with
York
Region,
where
we'll
have
additional
opportunities
to
add
to
the
orc
region.
Tax
rule,
so
I
think
we'll
find
opportunities
in
that
area
as
well,
and
we're
looking
at
the
data
that
or
the
general
is
evil
defined
through
her
audit
and
her
team's
audit,
and
we
appreciate
that
we
recognize
we
do
need
to
improve
and
we've
looked.
J
I'll
direct
this
to
the
AG,
but
it
might
have
to
go
to
staff
I
notice
on
slide.
16
of
your
presentation,
you
talked
about
four
key
objectives:
objective
number
one
was
to
be
consistent
and
timely.
I
go
back
to
the
2007
report
of
the
internal
auditor,
where
the
internal
auditor
said
exactly
the
same
thing
and
staff
agreed
to
process
to
collection
agencies
within
30
days
of
expiry
of
the
payment
date
and
staff
agreed
with
that
and
said
they
would
implement
that
effect
of
August
2007.
Your
report
on
page
31
indicates
and
I
did.
J
I
did
the
mouth
on
this,
but
indicates
a
7.9
percent
of
fines
are
actually
assigned
within
this
period,
but
staff
said
back
in
August
of
2007
that
they
accept
that
that
would
processes.
So
my
question
not
so
much
of
staff
but
have
internal
audit
I,
don't
know
if
you
would
have
this
answer
is
that
internal
audit
ever
go
back
as
they're
supposed
to
do
and
check
on
the
implementation
of
the
recommendations
and
if
they
did,
maybe
we
wouldn't
be
here
today.
F
So
chair
and
I
it
can
happen
in
an
audit
where
you
have
a
recommendation.
I
don't
know
if
they
went
back
specifically
to
look
at
this
one,
but
they
may
have
gone
back
and
then
over
time
it
may
have
strayed
to
where
we
are
so
that
is
not
consistent
in
timely,
correct
and
also
in
relation,
for
example,
for
strategic
approach
to
CEO.
F
Ds
I
can
say
that
they're
being
assigned
in
an
alphabetical
order,
instead
of
the
certificate
of
default
for
the
most
the
highest
fine
and
then
when
legal
services
would
make
a
recommendation,
for
example,
100
and
200
15
of
them
only
46
of
them
would
be
processed.
So
there
so
I
can
say
that
throughout
the
report,
Court
Services
is
working.
F
The
matter
I
can
say
from
my
collection,
industry,
expertise.
It's
not
methodical,
strategic
to
the
point
where
it
needs
to
be
or
timely
and
that
there's
opportunities
here.
So
it's
not
that
everything
is
wrong,
but
certainly
it's
not
where
it
needs
to
be,
and
that
would
be
one
example.
You've
pulled
out
just
another.
J
Question
I
guess:
point
D.
On
the
same
page,
you
mentioned
that
centralizing
delinquent
receivables
would
be
a
great
advantage
to
the
city
which
was
recommended
by
the
Auditor
General
in
2012.
So
going
back
again,
if
that
recommendation
had
been
implemented,
would
we
be
here
today
discussing
this
I?
Will.
K
Through
the
chair,
our
response
to
the
recommendation
in
2012
was
that
we
would
look
at
this
as
part
of
shared
services
and
we
would
look
at
business
intelligence
tools
to
see
how
we
could
do
things
better.
This,
unfortunately,
did
not
make
the
cut
corporately
as
part
of
shared
services.
Our
business
intelligence
tools
have
come
a
long
way
and
we
are
currently
looking
at
invoicing
and
collection
across
the
organization
to
see
what
we
can
do
better
and
whether
that
should
be
centralized
or
not.
K
Invoicing
and
collection
is
an
integral
part
of
certain
operations,
and
it's
not
something
that
we
could
just
say:
let's
move
them
all
to
Metro
Hall
and
have
them
under
accounting
services
tomorrow,
but
certainly
it
is
something
that
that
we're
moving
along
with.
We
do
Dunning
charges.
We
do
better
reporting,
we
do
report
on
on
write-offs
annually.
We
just
did
that
to
the
last
GMC,
and
certainly
we
certainly
we
can
do
a
lot
better
and
I
think
we're
having
the
tools
to
get
there,
and
we
vow
that
we
will.
A
A
A
There
are
a
number
of
very
long
timelines
in
some
cases,
some
a
year
and
a
half
but
I
wonder
I
would
ask
I
think
the
auditor
first
at
least,
are
there
some
extremely
important,
critical
timelines
in
there,
where
there's
a
high
yield,
even
though
it
takes
some
work
to
do
whatever
the
task
is
in
the
management
response
to
the
recommendations
of
the
auditor.
Are
there
ones
in
your
view
that
are
worth
focusing
on
with
additional
vigor
and
effort
because
they
will
yield
back
results,
whether
it's
an
IT
system
or
working
on
an
MOU?
A
F
Thank
You
chair
data
analytics
reviewing
the
data
we've
had
many
hits
out
of
that
and
I
think
that
that's
an
area
where
the
information
can
be
processed
better.
We
just
took
a
very
high
look
and
we're
going
to
work
and
transfer
any
tools
that
we
can
and
information
that
we
can
to
court
services
and
legal
services
and
the
strategies
that
we've
used
and
I
think
they're
going
to
be
able
to
move
forward
and
be
able
to.
F
As
they
have
said,
upload
more
to
the
tax
rolls
I
think
that's
going
to
be
a
positive
initiative,
and
that
can
be
done
today
and
we
will
continue
to
walk
alongside
and
can
check
things
but
share
information,
so
that
can
be
done
today.
The
work
around
the
legislative
tools
is
a
very
important
matter.
Legal
Services
has
done
a
lot
of
work
in
that
area
already
they
know
the
law
in
that
area.
It's
ready
to
go
I.
F
Think
what
it
needs
is
the
support
of
the
council
and
support
of
the
mayor
to
move
that
forward
and
you're
completely
in
great
hands
with
Rodney
Gill
on
that
matter.
So
that
can
be
done.
The
work
has
been
done
there,
it's
over
the
longer
term
of
sharing
the
problem
and
getting
the
expertise
to
help
the
city
to
solve
this
in
a
broader
way.
That's
going
to
take
some
time,
but
there
are
models
out
there.
F
There
are
companies
who
do
this
to
share
information,
so
I
think
it's
worthwhile
leveraging
the
economies
of
scale,
but
that's
going
to
take
a
more
thought.
So
there
are
some
immediate
things
that
can
happen,
but
the
system
is
a
bit
longer,
but
it
needs
to
start
now
to
move
forward
in
a
cohesive
manner.
Thank.
A
C
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
first
of
all
appreciate
the
report
that
was
brought
forward.
I
think
it's
important,
first
of
all
that
we're
having
this
discussion
about
this,
that
we
are
highlighting
the
fact
that
we
are
going
without
over
half
a
billion
dollars.
That
rightfully
should
be
collected,
as
the
AG's
said
earlier,
not
only
as
a
source
of
revenue,
but
also
to
ensure
that
our
that
our
ability
to
govern
effectively
and
and
ensure
that
people
are
playing
by
the
rules
is
respected.
C
C
What
I'm
hearing
from
staff
is
that
and
if
I
inferred
correctly
I
apologized,
but
what
I'm
hearing
is
that
they
believe
that
within
the
tools
that
they've
had
that
they
are
using
them,
but
there
probably
is
a
lot.
There
certainly
is
room
for
improvement
as
far
as
even
what
they're
able
to
do
with
our
partners
to
ensure
that
they
are
successful.
C
Nobody
reasonably
can
accept
that
that
much
money
should
just
be
floating
out
there
when
there
are
people
who
break
the
rules
and
and
there's
no
consequences.
I
have
also
heard
an
announcement
by
the
mayor
that
there's
gonna
be
a
blitz
this
summer
and
I'm
still
I
still
want
to
understand
what
that
will
mean.
How
are
we
going
to
effectively
if
we,
if
we
still
have
limited
tools
in
the
toolbox?
How
can
we
announce
a
blitz
that
sounds
like
a?
It
sounds
like
a
reaction,
but
it
doesn't
sound
speaking
of
methodical.
C
It
doesn't
sound
like
a
sincere
way
to
go
about
it,
but
perhaps
who
were
raising
expectations
too
high
before
we're
actually
able
to
deliver
so
what
I
look
forward
to
is
the
next
step
is
hearing
back
from
our
staff
as
to
whether
we
call
it
a
blitz
which
is
a
good.
You
know
it's
good
rhetoric,
but
but
honestly
like
what?
What
is
our
methodical
plan
to
collect
these
fines
that
have
a
better
structure
in
place
to
ensure
this
doesn't
happen
again?
C
That's
really
the
question
and
I
look
forward
to
hearing
back
from
them
about
what
that
plan
is
and
then
how
we,
as
council,
can
support
them
to
make
sure
that
they
do
their
jobs
well
and
I
look
forward
also
to
hearing
back
from
the
AG,
eventually
how
that
has
gone,
because,
ultimately,
we've
got
a
big
problem
and
I
look
forward
to
to
finding
out
what
tools
we
can
use
in
the
future
to
be
able
to
see
that
through
to
fruition.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
J
J
We
talked
a
lot
about
value
for
money
and
to
me
value
for
money,
for
the
Auditor
General
in
her
office
is
really
important
too,
and
when
I
look
back
on
the
2007
report
and
I
look
back
on
the
2012
report
and
my
feeling
is:
if
all
of
the
recommendations,
those
two
reports
had
been
implemented,
the
Auditor
General
could
have
focused
her
time
and
her
staffs
energy
on
something
else
other
than
this
report.
So
I
think
we've
gone
down
this
road
three
times
now
and
I'm,
hoping
that
this
report
will
make
some
change.
J
But
if
you
look
in
2007
much
of
what
was
identified
today
was
identified
back
then,
and
the
default
has
more
than
doubled
since
2007,
so
I
think
you
have
to
keep
that
in
mind
and
I.
Thank
the
author
general
for
all
the
work,
but
at
the
same
time,
I'm
sorry
that
she
had
to
do
this
report.
Quite
frankly,.
A
Thank
you
and
I'll
speak
briefly
as
well.
Of
course
thank
you
to
the
Auditor
General
and
her
team
and
thank
you
to
the
the
management
staff
that
worked
with
the
Auditor
General
to
bring
this
report
forward.
A
tremendous
piece
of
work
very
complex
and
I
agree
with
councillor
Hart.
It
took
a
couple
of
reads
to
fully
understand
all
of
the
things
that
were
being
said
in
there,
but
I
wanted
to
just
take
a
step
back
about
why
it's
important.
A
It
I
get
it,
but
it's
it's
about
keeping
up
with
all
of
the
changes
around
the
world
and
sometimes
where
we're
in
here
keeping
our
head
down
doing
the
best
that
we
can,
with
the
systems
that
we
have,
but
but
reaching
out
to
others
and
bringing
that
in
in
on
board
to
what
we're
doing
is
is
about
change,
and
it's
about
modernizing
government
and
I
think
this
report
gives
gives
the
staff
a
springboard
to
do
that.
I'll.
A
Give
one
last
thought
again:
it
wasn't
all
about
money,
it's
about
justice
and
it's
about
deterrence
with
respect
to
people
that
break
the
law
and
there's
a
there's
a
table
in
the
report.
Is
the
the
sentencing
table
and
there's
an
interesting
observation
that
look
at
that.
It's
dropping
off
know
that
I
mean
we
know,
there's
a
lot
of
reasons
about
that,
and
maybe
there
is
more
or
less
enforcement
going
on
in
the
field.
Maybe
there's
more
or
less
enforcement
going
on
in
the
courts.
A
But
it's
no
wonder
that
the
side
discussion
with
many
councilors
is
look
at
all
this
traffic.
That's
happening
out
there
and
look
at
these
people.
Speeding
and
breaking
the
law.
Well,
I,
don't
know,
I,
see
a
cause
and
effect
here.
People
seem
to
be
getting
away
with
it
and
not
getting
the
sentences
and
then,
on
top
of
that,
the
ones
that
are
caught
are
not
paying
the
fine
and
it's
indicative
to
the
lack
of
respect
to
the
law.
A
A
H
H
C
A
Okay,
I
also
had
some
technical
I'm.
Sorry
I
should.
Is
there
anyone
else
to
speak?
Okay,
thank
you.
I
wanted
to
place
a
amendment
I
apologize.
Procedurally
I
should
have
put
that
up
front
out
of
the
outcome
of
the
staff
responses.
I
have
received
some
information
from
staff
that
we
make
to
have
to
make
some
fine
adjustments
to
them.
They
are
highly
technical
in
nature
and
I
hope
you
will
support
them.
They
are
fully
supportive
of
the
recommendations
and
make
them
even
stronger.
A
A
L
First
I'd
like
to
say
that
in
principle,
we
strongly
support
the
prudent
and
transparent
use
of
public
funds.
Indeed,
we
strongly
recommend
that
public
funds
for
child
care
be
directed
only
to
public
and
nonprofit
programs
to
ensure
that,
indeed,
those
funds
are
used
only
for
the
operation
of
the
programs
and
not
susceptible
to
decisions
of
shareholders
or
other
unmonitored
entities.
L
Notwithstanding
we're
advising
that
the
first
recommendation
of
this
comprehensive
report,
the
recommendation
to
examine
alternative
service
delivery
options
for
the
city
run
centers
is,
in
our
view,
unnecessary
and
and
seems
to
contradict
current
city
policy,
as
outlined
in
the
childcare
growth
strategy
phase.
One.
The
2015
219
service
plan,
which
were
both
overwhelmingly
supported
by
council
to
their
credit.
In
our
view
and
and
both
of
those
plans
highlighted
not
only
the
the
need
to
grow
significantly
or
and
childcare
services
through
careful
planning,
long-term
investment
to
meet
Toronto's
to
meet
Toronto's
demand.
L
For
child
care,
but
also
endorsed
the
move
toward
the
delivery
of
child
care
as
a
universal
service,
so
as
as
you
know,
the
option
of
alternatives,
service
delivery
has
been
extensively
reviewed
several
times
in
recent
years.
You'll
know
the
details
better
than
I
those.
Although
I
have
reviewed
some
of
those
reports,
they
identified
the
unique
an
extremely
valuable
contribution
that
the
city
operated
childcare,
centers,
bring
to
children,
families
and
communities
while
representing
just
3%
of
licensed
spaces
in
the
city,
2921
I
understand.
L
Nevertheless,
these
ought
city
operated,
centers,
provide
ten
percent
of
the
spaces
for
infants.
Six
percent
for
toddlers
and
ten
percent
of
the
spaces
for
children
with
special
needs,
I
think
that's
a
very
important
example
of
the
specialized
role
that
the
city
operated
centers
play
in
the
sector.
The
centers
are
often
intentionally
located
in
neighborhoods,
where
other
service
providers
have
not
and
often
don't
have
the
resources
to
locate.
L
They
may
be
collated
located
wisely
in
new
housing
developments
and
city
operated
buildings
and
they're,
often
in
areas
of
high
need
with
high
proportions
of
low
and
modest
income,
families
who
need
childcare
but
require
subsidy.
Thus,
it's
not
at
all
surprising
that
ninety-three
percent
of
children
and
city
operated
centers
receive
a
fee
subsidy.
L
Any
move
to
an
alternative,
alternate
delivery
system
that
would
lower
the
professional
wage
would
be
vulnerable
and
would
be
contrary
to
proposed
public
provincial
policy.
That's
indeed
recommending
a
wage
grid
for
early
childhood
educators
that
reflects
their
education
and
experience.
So
we
hope
you
do
not
go
forward
with
that
recommendation.
Thank
you
for
speaking.
A
M
M
You
good
morning
councillors
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
today.
My
name
is
Sara
and
I'm,
a
mother
of
a
three-year-old
child
who
I
travel
out
of
my
ward
for
child
care
services
out
a
not-for-profit
childcare
center
and
I've
been
on
wait
list
for
child
care.
My
neighborhood
for
years,
I've
been
working
with
other
parents
across
the
city
to
ask
all
orders
of
government
to
show
leadership
on
child
care,
and
I
should
note
that
I
was
very
pleased
to
see
that
the
mayor
spoke
out
against
this
report.
M
That
you're,
considering
today
in
the
media
and
I'm
here
today
to
make
sure
that
the
voices
of
parents
are
reflected.
As
your
committee
considers
this
report
I
ask
you
to
please
keep
focused
on
your
child
care
growth
strategy
and
to
receive
this
report
for
information.
Only
last
year,
council
supported
a
child
care
growth
strategy
and
budgeted
funds
to
move
forward
with
that
strategy,
federal
and
provincial
dollars
have
finally
started
flowing
to
support
councils
efforts
to
address
child
care,
access
and
affordability
in
the
city.
M
Families
in
Toronto
overwhelmingly
support
that
strategy
and
increased
action
on
child
care.
However,
the
report
before
committee
today
barely
mentions
the
city's
child
care
growth
strategy
and
its
recommendations.
In
particular.
The
first
recommendation
before
committee
today
is
in
direct
conflict
with
the
child
care
growth
strategy.
M
Parents
do
not
want
the
city
tied
up
in
management
disputes
around
these
childcare
centers
that
service
extremely
high
needs
populations
and
not
the
majority
of
the
city.
We
want
the
city
and
this
council
to
remain
focused
on
the
child
care
growth
strategy
that
you've
approved.
We
federal
and
provincial
money
is
finally
flowing,
and
we
don't
water
City
to
lose
ground
and
backpedal
during
this
crucial
time
to
leverage
these
funds
for
growth
investments.
M
We
want
nonprofit,
centers
and
the
other
97%
of
the
system
to
also
keep
focused
on
their
own
growth
strategies.
In
particular,
we
don't
want
nonprofit
centers
to
freeze
their
planned
growth
because
they
might
be
required
to
take
on
city
run
centers
in
the
next
few
years,
as
a
parent.
I
must
also
weigh
in
on
how
disappointed
I
was
with
the
approach
of
the
report.
The
report
and
recommendation
before
committee
today,
particularly
recommendation
one
make
no
reference
to
the
costs
or
consequences
of
the
proposed
approach.
M
It
seems
to
me
that
the
report
dangled
essentially
a
few
carrots
in
front
of
families
and
workers,
suggesting
that
more
money
would
be
available
for
other
things
in
the
system,
but
the
city
already
debated
how
new
funds
should
be
prioritized
and
the
City
struck
a
balanced
approach
through
counsel
and
the
childcare
growth
strategy.
We've
already
discussed
this
yes,
childcare
isn't
affordable
in
this
city,
but
offloading
the
city's
childcare.
M
M
That
is
the
value
for
money
that
we
get
out
of
these
child
care
services
and
I
feel
that
that
was
not
measured
or
reflected
these
very
real
and
positive
impacts
of
these
services
on
the
families
and
the
the
unique
children
that
they
provide
services
to
so
counselors
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
have
no
idea
logical,
bent
on
private
versus
non
for
profit
versus
private.
In
this
debate,
my
child
isn't
a
not-for-profit
child
care
center.
M
We
really
would
accept
any
child
care
that
was
offered,
provided
it
was
safe,
regardless
of
who
is
providing
the
service
at
this
point.
But
we
as
a
parent
I,
recognize
the
unique
services
are
being
provided
by
these
city-run
centers
and
I.
I
would
ask
that
you,
please
don't
waste
precious
time
across
the
child
care
system
as
a
whole
going
through
with
this
recommendation
working
and
getting
us
in
this
debate.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
your
time.
Any.
G
N
I
think
the
main
point
that
I
want
to
make
is
that
the
idea
that
greater
value
in
child
care
equals
cheaper
in
a
traditional
audicence
based
on
what
we
know
about
quality
and
funding,
is
quite
questionable
and
I
further
believe
that
the
rationales
provided
for
the
recommendation
are
not
grounded
on
a
thorough
enough
understanding
of
the
complexities
of
child
care
policy
and
services
to
stand
up
to
scrutiny.
I
just
want
to
start
by
noting,
of
course,
that
this
isn't
new
schemes
to
close
publicly
operated.
N
Childcare
have
been
around
in
Ontario
for
as
long
as
I
can
remember.
In
the
past
five
or
six
years,
they've
been
repeated
divestment
proposals
across
Ontario
each
time.
The
same
rationale
is
the
same:
rebuttals
from
the
childcare
community
and
from
researchers
and
parents
have
actually
been
put
forward.
In
most
cases,
consulting
firms
were
hired
to
study
the
issue.
N
In
most
cases,
public
protests
oppose
the
divestments
some
of
these
successfully,
some
not
Windsor
Pele,
Sarnia
and
others
closed
their
centers,
Waterloo,
Peterborough,
Durham,
Thunder,
Bay
and
others
did
not
back
before
their
2012
budget
Toronto
proposed
closing
municipal
childcare
as
part
of
what
was
on
the
table
as
part
of
the
sweeping
budget
cuts.
It
was
pandering
the
public
protests
against
the
austerity
measures
and
didn't
move
ahead.
N
First
of
all,
I'm
really
surprised
that
the
way
quality
is
argued.
It's
based
on
compliance
with
licensing
requirements.
Based
on
this,
the
report
argues
that
city
centres
are
only
marginally
better
quality
than
other
centers.
The
problem
with
this
is
that
compliance
with
licensing
isn't
consent
considered
by
anybody
to
be
a
measure
of
quality.
Meeting
licensing
requirements
is
considered
only
to
be
a
minimally
acceptable
standard
below
which
children
might
be
harmed.
N
A
second
area
of
concern
that
I
have
is
how
the
report
addresses
child
care
staff
wages.
The
reason
that
alternatives
are
being
proposed
is
because
city
centre
costs
are
higher,
with
higher
staff
wages
being
the
main
cause,
not
the
only
cause
but
the
main
cause.
But
the
report
seems
to
be
saying
what
the
city
wages
are
too
high
or
they're
not
providing
sufficient
value.
It
does
not
mention
that
municipal
childcare
wages
are
the
comparator
for
the
proxy
method
of
determining
pay
equity
under
the
provinces,
Pay
Equity
Act.
N
It
also
doesn't
mention
the
clearly
established
connection
between
childcare
wages
and
staff,
recruitment
and
retention,
an
issue
that
plagues
the
childcare
field,
city
centres
and
other
high
wage
centres
find
it
easier
to
recruit
and
retain
qualified
staff,
and
this
is
a
factor
that
affects
not
only
quality.
It
affects
vacancies
and
it
affects
the
possibility
of
expansion
in
the
nonprofit
sector.
N
So
to
that
point,
my
third
point
of
concern
is
the
report's
assumption
that
the
spaces
in
the
city
centre,
which,
as
we
know,
are
disproportionately
serving
infants,
toddlers
special
needs
children,
newcomers,
low-income
families
can
easily
be
transferred
to
nonprofit
centres.
I,
don't
think
there
was
consultation
much
or
any
on
about
the
many
issues
involved
in
making
this
assumption,
but
I
think
that
whether
nonprofit
operators
are
ready,
willing
and
able
to
take
up
the
challenge
of
expansion,
given
all
the
other
challenge
that
they're
facing
I
think.
N
That's
quite
a
questionable
assumption,
wrap
up
please:
okay,
I
think
what
at
the
point
I
want
to
make
is
that
there
are
a
lot
of
issues
of
concern
in
this
report.
The
idea
that
child
care
in
child
care
value
for
money
doesn't
necessarily
mean
cheaper.
Therefore,
with
all
this
in
mind,
I
join
my
colleagues
in
urging
the
committee
members
not
to
pursue
once
again
hashing
over
the
alternatives
to
delivering
child
care
through
these
centers.
Thank
you
are.
A
I
Good
morning
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
I'm,
a
mother
of
two
children
who
are
under
four
years
old,
Toronto
EastEnders
for
child
care,
is
a
group
of
volunteer
parents
who
have
come
together
to
advocate
for
more
high-quality
spaces
in
our
neighborhood,
a
childcare
that
is
affordable
for
families
and
better
information
about
our
child
care.
Centers,
we're
calling
for
immediate
child
care
relief,
and
we
recommend
that
the
Toronto
Auditor
General's
report
be
received
for
information
only
by
the
Audit
Committee.
I
The
recommendations
in
this
report
do
not
represent
a
viable
path
to
more
childcare
spaces.
Rather,
they
will
result
in
lengthy
administrative
and
political
debates
over
selling
city-owned
centers.
We
strongly
support
childcare,
centers
and
workers
who
care
for
our
youngest,
most
underserved
and
most
vulnerable
children.
We
do
not
want
the
city
to
engage
in
a
debate
over
salaries,
which
can
only
lead
to
widening
the
come
disparity
in
Toronto.
I
A
O
While
computer,
you
have
five
minutes
thanks
very
much.
Mr.
chairman
and
committee
members,
I'm
Clara
Buckley,
the
interim
executive
director
social
planning,
Toronto,
a
nonprofit
community
run
organization
that
works
to
improve
the
quality
of
life
of
Toronto
residents.
We
support
to
the
previous
presentations
of
with
respect
to
our
concerns,
were
reckoned
in
recommendation
number
one
and
and
would
prefer
that
it
be
deleted
or
not
adopted.
City
1,
child
care.
Centers
are
small
but
essential
part
of
the
childcare
service
delivery
mix
in
Toronto.
O
They
provide
critically
important
support
to
the
families
to
the
city's
most
vulnerable
communities
and
families
they
operate
in
areas
of
the
city
where
other
child
care
providers
would
face.
Significant
barriers
to
establishing
centers
subsidies
are
provided
to
93%
of
the
children
in
these
spaces,
including
a
hundred
and
twenty
children
with
special
needs,
which
is
about
10%
of
the
children,
with
special
needs
receiving
child
care
support
funding
in
Toronto.
O
When
we
talk
about
citywide
childcare,
we're
really
talking
about
vulnerable
families
and
children
with
complex
needs.
These
centers
provide
high
quality
service
and
are
deeply
valued
in
the
community.
They
will
not
turn
any
families
away,
especially
of
those
who
have
children
with
complex
needs.
Well,
this
is
not
the
case.
We're
all
nonprofit
childcare
centers,
primarily
because
of
the
resources
that
they
have
available
to
them.
O
Citywide
childcare
centers
are
also
an
essential
part
of
the
child
care
delivery
mix
because
they
have
the
full
financial
backing
of
the
City
of
Toronto
for
other
providers
with
limited
resources,
there
are
financial
risks.
This
is
especially
problematic
when
vulnerable
families
with
few
to
no
other
options
for
child
care
services
are
affected.
O
Second
major
concerns
with
respect
to
the
loss
of
good
jobs.
If
there
are
any
cost
savings
in
contract
these
centers,
these
savings
will
be
realized
by
eliminating
hundreds
of
good
jobs
with
decent
wages
and
benefits
that
are
largely
held
by
women
and
replacing
these
jobs
as
considerably
lower
wage
positions
and
jobs
that
may
or
may
not
have
benefits
and
centers
where
work
may
be
more
precarious.
This
is
deeply
misguided.
Decent
wages
and
working
conditions
and
city
run
centers
provide
the
benchmark
for
other
providers
to
strive
toward.
O
We
need
the
city
to
safeguard
good
childcare
jobs
in
the
sector,
not
to
eliminate
them
and
for
all
orders
of
government
to
resource
the
sector,
to
raise
wages
to
an
acceptable
standard,
eliminating
good
jobs.
The
childcare
sector
is
counter
to
the
city's
childcare
plan
that
recognizes
the
need
for
a
thriving
workforce.
It
also
runs
counter
to
the
city's
poverty
reduction
strategy.
It
recognizes
the
importance
of
quality
jobs
and
liveable
incomes.
The
Auditor
General's
report
suggested
through
the
permanent
elimination
of
these
jobs.
O
The
city
could
provide
a
small
one-time
increase
to
childcare
workers,
wages
and
that's
not
the
way
to
improve
wages
in
the
sector
and,
finally,
with
respect
to
recommendations
for
stricter
administrative
and
monitoring
mechanisms
pertaining
to
childcare
fee
subsidies,
the
city
has
accountability
systems
in
place.
Now
these
systems
become
too
onerous
for
low-income
families
to
navigate
these
families
will
lose
their
childcare
and
then
be
unable
to
work
or
attend
school,
undermining
one
of
the
key
purposes
of
providing
childcare
and
moving
the
city
in
the
opposite
direction
to
which
we
should
be
headed.
O
So-Called
accountability
systems
can
also
be
more
costly
to
administer
than
the
savings
realized.
We
also
note
that
the
city
and
its
10-year
child
care
growth
strategy
is
planning
to
move
towards
a
childcare
system
that
is
more
accessible
closer
to
a
system
of
universality.
Given
that
direction,
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
spend
time
and
resources
in
disruption
to
build
a
system,
there's
actually
more
restrictive
and
creates
greater
barriers
to
affordable
childcare
services.
O
It's
a
conclude:
I
know
that
the
audit
function,
the
city-
is
very
important
to
get
value
for
money,
but
we
believe
that
there's
also
the
city's
responsibility
to
give
value
for
money.
We
support
teachers
in
our
public
school
system
with
good
wages
and
benefits,
because
they
are
preparing
and
guiding
our
children
for
productive
contributing
futures.
It
is
at
least
as
important
that
our
preschool
children
thrive
and
safe
care
stimulating
earlier
environments,
an
essential
that
the
city
continue
to
play
a
direct
role
in
the
childcare
system
that
provides
that
value
to
Toronto's
children
and
families.
A
K
You
very
much
hello
everyone.
My
name
is
Dave
Mitchell
I'm,
president
of
cUPE
Local
79,
which
represents
approximately
20,000
city
workers,
including
frontline
staff
at
Children's,
Services,
Division,
Toronto's
children
at
Toronto's,
childcare,
centers,
show
their
value
of
the
city
through
superior
quality
ratings
service
to
high
needs
populations.
A
higher
proportion
of
care
for
special
needs
children
and
set
the
benchmark
for
quality
standards
and
wages
at
in
the
sector.
K
Our
members
in
the
city
run
centers,
are
professional
and
provide
care
for
children
in
most
in
the
most
critical
stages
of
their
development.
I
would
like
to
address
the
two
cost-saving
and
cost
savings
measures.
The
Auditor
General's
uses
to
justify
the
alternative
service
delivery
option
that
that
don't
fully
take
into
account
the
complexity
of
Toronto's
childcare
system,
the
first
centers
on
reducing
the
capital
expenditures.
Let's
remember
that
the
city
does
not
operate
childcare.
Centers
to
make
money.
The
city
strives
to
have
a
hundred
percent
of
its
its
spots
filled
with
subsidized
spaces.
K
The
city
located
the
city
locates
its
childcare
centers,
as
we've
heard
in
high-need
in
high-need
areas,
areas.
Excuse
me
half
of
the
new
plan.
Capital
projects
are
concentrated
in
three
of
the
city's
wards,
which
include
priority
communities
like
Malvern
and
the
Jane
Street
corridor.
According
to
city
sent
to
the
city
census
data.
These
words
have
high
numbers
of
single
parents
and
significantly
low
household
incomes
have
a
city
average.
K
K
Let's
also
put
into
let's
also
put
the
city's
contribution
to
Toronto
child
care
system
and
perspective
city
run
centers
account
for
3
percent.
As
we've
heard
of
the
of
the
child
care
services
in
Toronto,
it
is
small
but
essential
part
of
the
sector
because
of
its
mandate
to
target
the
child
to
target
the
child
care
system
gaps,
not
urgent.
K
It
is
confusing
that
the
auditor
that
the
auditor
acknowledges
the
low
wages
in
the
sector
and
the
corresponding
need
to
raise
the
wages
well
the
same
while
at
the
same
time
recommending
that
the
city
take
advantage
of
low
low
paid
workers
to
subsidized
child
care
costs,
lowering
wages,
regardless
of
who
provides
the
services
lower,
lower
wages
across
the
sector
across
the
sector
and
and
for
women,
the
city
and
the
province.
Both
recognize
both
recognize
that
quality
childcare
is
achieved
through
well-trained
and
well
compensated
workforce.
K
K
Having
said
all
this,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
I've
recently
received
a
phone
call
from
someone
from
the
public
a
couple
named
Lorraine
and
Kevin,
who
have
who
have
a
son
named
Brendan,
who
is
now
15.
He
falls
under
the
autism
spectrum
and
Lorraine
and
Kevin.
It
had
put
Brendan
into
one
of
the
the
child
Care's
City
Ron
child
cares
when
he
was
when
he
was
I.
Think
about
Lorraine
had
said
about
15
months.
K
Lorraine
had
said
to
me
and
more
than
more
than
many
terms
that
if
it
wasn't
for
the
staff
helping
with
the
recognition
of
the
autism
and
realizing
and
seeing
this
it's
such
an
early
age,
they
don't
believe
that
their
son
at
15
years
old
right
now
would
be
as
advanced
as
he
is
he's
he's.
He
goes
home
on
his
own.
He
takes
buses
he's
active
in
his
school.
K
He
has
very
high
grades,
he's
achieving
beyond
what
his
parents
and
many
people
thought
he
would
achieve,
and
they
contribute
that
mainly
to
the
work
that
was
done
at
the
city
run
childcare
center
and
the
ability
of
those
those
folks
to
recognize
what
was
needed
at
the
time
and
helped
the
parents
that
you
achieve
the
goals
that
they've
achieved
for
their
son.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
again.
P
P
So,
as
we've
been
hearing
last
week,
the
Auditor
General
released
a
report
recommending
to
the
City
of
Toronto
to
stop
operating
its
own
childcare
centres,
recommendation
1
and
essentially
hand
over
the
52
centers
to
the
not-for-profit
sector.
I
support
the
comments
and
deputations
before
me
that
city
run
childcare.
Centers
are
an
important
benchmark
for
quality
and
salaries,
and
we
all
recognize
that
high
quality,
affordable
child
care,
supports
child
development
and
assist
working
parents
and
parents
who
are
studying
and
helps
to
fight
poverty.
P
As
a
municipal
services
system
manager,
Toronto
Children's
Services
can
continue
to
do
this
by
paying
the
true
costs
of
operating
our
childcare
programs,
keeping
our
centers
full
with
no
vacancies
and
investing
in
child
care
services
across
the
city
to
help
support
all
of
us
with
professional
pay,
decent
work
and
decent
work
conditions
for
all
ICI
ease
in
the
sector.
St.
Stephen's,
Community
House
agrees
with
the
deputies
before
you
to
reconsider
recommendation
1.
P
There
have
been
many
recent
changes
in
city
and
provincial
policy
direction
and
legislation
for
childcare,
of
which
this
is
the
first
time
in
my
career.
I've
ever
seen
this,
but
our
community
programs
are
exhausted.
In
the
past
few
years
there
has
been
and
his
growth
in
the
childcare
system
and
it's
hard
for
us
to
keep
up
with
the
capacity
of
the
tremendous
growth
it's
an
exciting
and
challenging
time,
but
that
we've
ever
seen,
but
we
need
supports.
P
P
Finally,
as
a
large
not-for-profit
organization,
we
have
five
centers
downtown
I'm
here
to
let
you
know
that
we
don't
want
to
run
city
centers,
that's
not
our
goal.
We
urgently
need
more
centers
and
more
spaces
community
child
care
programs
can't
deliver
these
programs
alone.
I.
Ask
you
to
follow
your
own
approved
Council
approved
Toronto
growth
strategy
to
grow
the
whole
system,
I
trust
that
I
can
count
on
you
to
represent
and
protect
the
interests
of
all
of
us
undertaking.
A
major
contracting
out
study
will
not
improve
quality
or
access
to
the
families
in
this
city.
P
A
F
Thank
You,
chair,
I,
know
I'll,
make
it
short
because
I
know,
as
time
is
getting
tight
and
I
want
to
thank
all
the
speakers
who
have
come
forth
with
their
views.
We've
done
extensive
work
in
this
area.
We've
caught
we've
surveyed
and
met
with
many
operators,
500
I,
think
519
operators
in
a
survey
and
we've
surveyed
them
twice.
We've
done
extensive
work
and
I'd
like
to
level
set
the
information.
This
is
not
about
privatization.
That's
not
what
my
report
is
about.
My
port
report
doesn't
speak
to
closing
any
centers.
F
My
report
doesn't
speak
to
losing
jobs,
and
my
report
doesn't
speak
to
situations
where
you
know
about
quality
negative
quality.
What
I
can
say
is
this
is
about
better
information.
This
is
about
making
sure
the
information
is
before
council.
As
you
as
you're.
Implementing
your
growth
strategy.
I,
don't
decide
the
policy
around
the
growth
strategy,
but
what
my
role
is
to
make
sure
the
information
is
there,
so
the
growth
growth
strategy
Council
can
use
the
information
to
achieve
the
growth
strategy
in
a
cost-effective
manner.
So
with
that
I
would
like
first
thank
my
team.
F
F
F
F
So
the
next
slide
that
I'm
going
to
bring
up
actually
is
a
distribution
one
of
the
things
there's
a
few
pieces
of
information-
that's
not
been
up-to-date.
One
is
the
growth
strategy
is
built
on
2011
data.
Not
2016
data
we've
done
is
what
we've
we've
taken.
Also
every
childcare
center
in
the
city,
the
red
is
the
city
centers.
The
blue
are
the
areas
where
we
purchase
childcare
from
professional
nonprofit
childcare
operators.
We
have
46
thousand
children
in
these
centers;
they
they
take
in
90
percent
of
the
children
with
special
needs.
F
They
because
10%
is
offered
in
the
children's
center.
This
children's
center,
the
city
center,
the
city
center-
does
have
a
higher,
proportionate
we've
compared
salaries,
and
we
found
them
to
be
comparable
in
general.
Going
to
this
a
little
bit
later
in
relation
to
the
people
who
are
served,
the
children
who
are
serving
these
centers
and
this
interactive
map
does
show
that
in
every
area
of
the
city,
there's
many
nonprofit
operators.
F
So
we
spend
two
hundred
and
eighty
million
in
relation
to
subsidies
and
that
serves
twenty
eight
thousand
children
and,
of
course,
there's
83,000
spaces,
but
the
fifty-two
centers
it
costs
about
60
million
to
run
those
centers
and
the
subsidies
there's
a
distribution
here,
and
it
shows,
though,
there's
a
small
amount
for
infant,
but
the
and
it
expands
as
you
go
to
the
toddlers
and
to
the
preschool.
So
you
can.
This
was
in
your
in
your
presentation.
Q
We're
gonna
move
on
to
talk
about
the
waitlist,
so
here
you
have
a
breakdown
of
the
whale.
Is
the
total
number
where
people
aren't
student
awareness
is
about
12,000,
but
when
you
break
it
down,
that's
about
5,000
children
who
has
immediate
needs
immediately
this
defined
by
attune
surface.
The
practice
is
about
within
two
months.
They
need
in
child
care
and
that's
about
another
5,000.
They
have
future
needs.
It
can
be
up
to
a
year
later
that
they
indeed
to
the
need
child
care
and
also
important
to
know,
is
it's
about
1,500
or
13%
of
them.
Q
Q
They
don't
have
the
parents
didn't
say
when
they
want
to
start
the
child
care,
so
in
it's
important
to
have
this
breakdown
to
get
a
full
picture
of
the
percentage
in
how
many
children
actually
who
need
child
care
right
now,
we're
talking
about
the
access
to
licensed
space
so
of
the
Estella
to
Gino
mentioned
there's
about
83,000
licensed
child
care
space
in
the
city.
Right
now
in
2018,
sorry,
in
2008,
City
Council
gave
a
direction
to
the
division.
Q
June
surface
is
not
to
do
any
business,
extend
any
new
contracts
with
commercial
centers,
so
there
are
about
100,
198
commercial
centers,
I
excluded
that
June
service
cannot
do
business
with
them.
So
to
be
fair
to
children
surface,
we
excluded
those
at
11,000
spaces
from
our
analysis
of
the
licensed
space
available
for
children,
surfaces
to
please
children
with
subsidy
in
this
Center,
so
our
analysis
is
space
on
17,000
lies
faces.
Q
I
just
want
to
clarify
that
because
there's
a
difference
in
the
number-
and
this
is
following
a
city
direction-
and
for
that
so
this
graph
looks
a
little
bit
busy.
So
what
we're
trying
to
break
down
for
you
is
what
happened
to
that
72,000
licensed
child
care
space
out
there
in
the
city
right
now,
so
the
best
way
to
understand
this
graph
is
looking
from
the
top
look
at
the
first
slice
slice
a
so
it's
a
little
slight
yellow
slice.
Q
So
these
are
the
spaces
about
7,000
of
slicing
spaces
out
there
from
144
nonprofit
centers
in
the
city
to
which
Student
Services
has
no
contract
with
them,
so
they
cannot
use
them
to
for
subsidy
purpose
to
place
to.
So
that's
why
that
slice
was
lifted
from
the
cylinder
and
then
we're
looking
at
the
green,
the
light
green
and
the
dark
green.
These
are
the
spaces
from
the
center's
about
six
hundred
and
thirty.
Q
Nine
of
them
I
think
that
has
contract
with
children,
surfaces
so
Children's
Services
can
use
these
spaces
as
the
surfaces
from
these
centers,
the
top.
You
see
the
slice,
Beach
I,
don't
know
whether
you
can
see
it.
That's
about
8,000
of
them
are
the
spaces.
These
are
lies
and
space
are
not
in
use.
So
there's
a
difference.
If
a
center
is
licensed
for
30
spaces,
they
have
licensed
space
Ferdie,
they
can
choose
to
operate
below
30.
They
may
choose
to
operate
only
25
before
business
reason.
They
don't
have
enough
demand
or
whatever
reason
so.
Q
The
operating
space
is
lower
than
their
license
space
and
that's
what
this
this
lies
were
present.
So
those
space
we
cannot
use
right
to
surface
cannot
because
they're
not
operating.
If
there's
demand
operators,
as
many
of
them
told
us
from
the
survey
that
they
will
open
up
these
spaces
if
they
are
demand
for
modem.
The
next
slide
see
is
the
spaces
that,
under
this
current
division
policy,
they
have
they
put
a
ceiling
on
how
many
spaces
they
can
purchase
from
these
centers.
Q
So
going
back
to
the
example
right,
if
I'm
licensed
for
30
spaces,
I
only
operate
25
but
Children's
Services
may
say
that
I
will
only
purchase
a
maximum
of
20
space
from
you,
regardless
of
whether
you
have
demand
there
could
be
children
with
subsidies
already
have
the
subsidy
money,
but
I
will
only
purchase
20
space
from
you.
So
that's
what
we
call
the
ceiling.
Those
spaces
are
not
being
used
for
children
with
subsidies
and
it's
about
7,000
of
them.
Q
So
the
green
in
that
the
major
part
is
about
46,000
spaces
out
of
72,000
licensed
spaces
out.
There
are
being
used
by
children,
surfaces
to
police
children
with
subsidies,
so
that
represent
about
64%
of
the
existing
space
available
to
tubes
and
services.
The
blue
lie
in
the
bottom.
Is
the
52
City
operate
centers
they
provide
about
20s
about
3,000
childcare
spaces.
So
this
is
the
one
side
on
that
side.
Q
You
can
see
that
there's
a
lots
of
about
20
to
25,000
spaces
that
has
the
potential
to
be
used,
but
they
are
currently
not
being
used
for
subsidy
purpose.
On
the
other
side.
I
just
want
to
quick
I
know
this
graph
is
a
little
bit
complicated.
We
also
concern
about
vacancy.
Just
like
we
heard
from
two
surfaces.
There
are
right
now
as
a
shortage
of
wakens
childcare
space
out
there,
and
many
parents
extracts
Express
that
and
Children
Services
also
has
we
understand
and
recognize.
Q
Council
approved
children,
services,
2018
capital
budgets
to
bill,
use,
49
million
to
build
more
to
add
about
one
thousand
and
one
one
hundred
additional
childcare
spaces
over
the
next
ten
years.
So
for
those
centers
we
have
no
contract,
we
don't
know
the
vacancy
information,
so
that's
this
one
and
for
those
who
we
have
contracts
based
on
our
survey
result
also
data
from
children,
surface
itself,
there's
about
six
percent
vacancy
out
there.
Q
So
six
percent
is
about
three
thousand
vacant
space
out
there
in
the
center
with
contracts
with
the
cities
and
that's
an
amount
as
city
operator.
Fifty
two
centers,
their
vacancy
rates,
is
sixteen
percent,
so
I'll
call
it
to
2016
and
2017
data.
The
average
vacancy
rate
is
16
percent,
and
that
represents
four
hundred
rating
space
out
there.
So
already
here
you
have
three
thousand
and
four
hundred
vacant
space
and
that
could
be
more
vacant
space
out
there
in
in
the
interspaces
we
haven't
tapped
into
and
that's
what
we
just
tries
trying
to
illustrate.
F
On
this
slide
in
particular,
so
you
know
to
to
to
add
it
up.
We
have
four
hundred
spaces
that
our
vacancy
plus
there's
a
there's
a
little
another
license
capacity
on
top
of
that
for
the
city's
centers
in
relation
to
the
operators,
told
us
about
1300
spaces.
That
would
be
about
the
amount
that
they
would
want
to
open
up
if
they
had
subsidy
to
eat
into
the
capacity
that's
licensed
but
they're,
not
using.
F
But
if
you're
going
to
achieve
a
growth
strategy,
you've
got
to
put
everything
together:
49
million
for
a
thousand
spaces
there
might
be
an
opportunity
to
open
up
spaces,
be
more
efficient
and
get
down
the
vacancy
rate
leverage.
The
operators
who
want
to
open
up
more
space.
That's
already
licensed.
We
already
have
a
contract
they're
already
at
the
quality
level.
They're
aren't
accepting
special
needs
children,
so
we're
saying
use
what
you
have
better
and
that'll
help
with
the
with
a
growth
strategy.
Also
thank.
Q
You
so
this
people
sum
up
what
that
auditor-general
just
told
us
about,
and
we
just
want
to
stress
that
we
are
not
recommending
the
divisions
to
not
to
continue
that
capital
view.
We
are
only
saying
that
try
to
make
better
use
of
the
existing
space.
By
doing
so,
you
will
also
help
the
child
care
centers
running
a
more
economical,
viable
operation,
because
vacancy
is
bad
for
everybody's
business.
Q
So
we
we
will
as
Paula
audit,
we
will
50
case
files,
the
subsidy
files,
and
we
noted
in
29
of
them.
They
contain
to
paste
them
information.
So
before
that
I
sorry
I
need
to
give
you
a
little
bit
background
to
be
eligible
for
childcare
subsidies.
Applicants
must
live
in
Toronto
and
work
or
engage
in
the
training
activities
so
doing
the
eligibility
review.
Q
Applicants
are
required
by
the
provincial
legislation
to
provide
their
Noa
notice
of
assessments
as
a
method
for
assessing
their
income,
and
the
information
on
the
Noa
can
range
from
a
few
months
to
up
to
two
year
old,
depending
on
the
time
the
assessment
was
done.
So
as
a
part
of
our
audits,
we
look
at
50
files
and
we
know
that
29
of
them
contain
based
on
information
in
that.
So
these
paestum
were
not
collected
for
income
assessment
purpose.
The
paestum
were
collected
as
a
way
to
prove
of
their
employment
activities.
Q
When
we
use
the
pace,
current
pay
stamp
to
assess
the
subsidy
amount.
What
we
find
is
in
three
cases
these
parents
would
have
been
paid
a
higher
subsidy
amount
because
the
current
income
is
lower
than
their
no.8,
so
they
would
have
received
of
high
of
subsidy
fees
and
in
12
cases
the
parents
would
have
pay
a
lower
given
our
lower
subsidy
amounts,
because
their
income
has
gone
up
from
the
time
that
their
Noa
was
presented.
Q
So,
in
particular
in
two
of
the
12
cases,
in
fact,
those
parents
that
the
income
has
gone
so
high,
they
would
not
have
been
eligible
for
any
subsidy
at
all
if
paestum
is
used
as
a
method
of
assessment,
so
pay
stamps
reflect
more
current
income.
Information
than
notice
of
assessment,
other
provincial
income
base
program
also
use
pay,
stamps
observed
on
telework
or
the
disability
system,
programs,
and
sorry,
okay
and
I.
Q
So
if
this
with
the
city
is
allowed
to
use
paste
on
as
income
assessment
methods,
we
can,
the
city
can
potentially
save
a
lot
of
millions
of
subsidy
dollars
that
can
be
used
to
purchase
more
subsidy
spaces
for
children's
on
the
wait
list
right
now.
So
we
simply
asking
the
province
to
reconsider
and
Amanda
we're
not
saying
we
ask
applicants
to
provide
a
paste
on
every
month.
Q
We
just
saying
during
the
annual
assessment,
ask
them
to
provide
Noa,
also
paste
them,
so
I
can
move
in
the
alternative
childcare
center,
which
was
much
debated
in
2013
City
Council
appointed
a
independent
consultant
to
conduct
a
study
and
what
they
found
was
the
operating
cost
of
city.
1
centers
are
30%
higher
than
on
profit,
centers
and
commercial
centers.
They
also
say
reducing
this
centers
by
25
to
75
percent.
We
say
free
too
far:
10
million
a
year.
Q
Q
Staff,
the
early
childhood
educators
working
in
the
city
centers
their
hourly
pay
range
from
$30
40
cents
to
$37
and
10
cents.
So
compare
this
to
these
same
education,
early
childhood
professional
in
the
nonprofit
centers,
the
average
hourly
rate
is
about
$22
and
50
cents.
There's
660
44
workers
in
the
city
run
childcare,
centers,
there's
about
6,000
child
care
professionals
in
the
contract,
639
contract
center
with
the
cities.
Many
of
them
are
also
women
who
need
well
pay
and
secure
a
job.
Q
So,
as
we
mentioned,
you
know
we
put
the
city
when
centers
are
charged
a
higher
fee
and
you
can
see
for
infants.
They
are
2300
for
infants
compared
to
nonprofits.
About
1800,
for
a
toddler
is
about
2,000
in
the
city,
one
Center.
The
nonprofit
is
about
1400,
so
overall,
the
charge
between
28%
to
45%
more
than
the
non
profit
centers
the
fee
charged
by
the
city
run.
Centers
are
so
high
that
very
few
parents
who
pay
fo
fee
can
afford
these
spaces.
Q
Despite
the
high
fee,
these
are
the
city
run:
centers
are
operating
at
an
annual
operating
our
show
for
at
fourteen
point,
seven
million
every
year,
so
these
figures
are
actually
provided
to
us
by
children,
services,
management
staff
in
charge
of
Finance
and
verified
by
us.
We
did
not
just
make
up
these
numbers
I
want
to
our
stress
then.
Q
So
again
we
are
not
suggesting
relocating
or
closing
any
of
these
centers.
They,
the
operation
should
be
continued,
but
there
could
be
a
different
model
to
operate
them.
There
are
significant
financial
benefit,
as
you
can
see
on
this
slide.
Fourteen
point,
seven
million
and
you
are
stopping
and
your
short
fault.
That
will
also
be
another.
Thirteen
point:
five
million
the
saving
is
from
because
the
the
nonprofit,
our
rate,
the
prices,
is
lower.
Q
You
can
then
use
the
same
amount
of
money
to
purchase
more
subsidized
spaces
to
purchase
more
subsidized
surface
fund,
the
nonprofit's
operations
at
a
lower
rate.
The
saving
can
be,
we
invest
to
improve,
potentially
at
another.
Twenty
two
hundred
subsidies
to
the
current
systems
without
any
additional
funding
increase
or
the
City
Council
can
choose
to
improve
wages,
to
use
the
money
to
into
proof
rages
across
the
sector.
Q
So
we
do
recognize
that
the
city
run
centers.
They
provide
a
larger
share
of
spaces
for
subsidized
children
with
special
needs.
They
are
three
percent
of
them,
but
they
provide
ten
percent
of
the
spaces
for
children
with
special
needs.
90%
of
the
subsidized,
the
subsidized
special
needs
children
are
currently
in
the
contracted
centers.
A
number
of
of
the
operators
in
our
survey
indicate
to
us
that
they
would
like
to
accommodate
more
children
with
special
needs,
but
they
have
been
experiencing
some
difficulties
in
obtaining
funding
for
children,
which
there's
a
special
fund.
Q
They
can
obtain,
but
they've
been
having
some
difficulties
obtaining
the
funding
for
accommodate
children
with
special
needs
in
terms
of
serving
low-income
families.
We
did
make
a
analysis.
The
percentage
of
low-income
family
in
the
city
run
center
and
the
nonprofit
contracted
center
are
almost
the
same
49%
in
the
city,
one
center
46%
in
the
nonprofit
centers
this
table
actually
I
was
telling
you
the
we
analyzed
the
provincial
inspection
result.
Q
We
recognized
the
provincial
inspection
results.
It's
not
just
measuring
compliance,
it
also
measure
quality
of
care
because
they
have
ramped
up
the
inspection
results
and
then
even
that
was
recognized
by
by
the
committee,
because
the
provincial
inspection
results
at
the
inspection
criteria.
Many
of
it
are
very
similar
to
the
city's
AQI.
Their
own
inspection
results.
They
both
measure
quality
in
in
certain
aspects.
Q
So
when
we
look
at
the
provincial
inspection
result
to
the
city
run
centre,
if
you
can
look
at
the
so
I
cannot
use
my
mouse
to
show
you,
but
is
the
the
second
row,
the
city,
one
centre
that
has
among
them
there?
47
percent
of
them
had
high
or
critical
instances
of
non-compliance
found
by
the
provincial
inspection
results.
The
contracted
centre
they
had
their
non-compliance
rates
is
50.7%.
Q
So
yes,
city,
run
centre
has
a
lower
non-compliance
rates,
but
the
difference
is
not
statistically
significant,
meaning
that
can
happen
by
chance
and
we
are
not
denying
that
city
run
centre
could
be
running
at
a
better
quality,
but
but
I
think
the
question
is
the:
how
much?
What
did
whether
that
better
quality
awaits
the
many
more
subsidised
space
we
can
provide.
Q
So
we
take
a
look
at
the
other
jurisdiction.
Pew
region
has
already
transferred
the
operation
of
the
11
childcare
centers
over
to
community
partners.
Pew
region
has
no
great
list
right
now.
Many
other
canadian
centers
do
not
directly
operate
childcare.
Centers
such
as
Vancouver,
Calgary,
Halifax
and
Vinny
pack
state
don't
operate
the
red.
We
operate
childcare,
centers
some
Ontario
jurisdiction
or
pre
childcare
centers,
as
you
can
see
in
this
next
graph-
and
these
are
the
Ontario
City
operate.
Childcare
center.
Q
I
just
want
to
mention,
because
you
see
auto
out
there
and
they
have
11
centers,
but
they
are
also
competing.
A
review
on
there
directly
operated
childcare
centers
this
graph-
you
you
have
it
in
your
report.
It
summarize
what
we
talked
about.
I
just
want
to
draw
their
attention
to
the
middle
box
when
we
transferred.
If
the
52
operates,
city-run
operate
center
can
be
made
more
efficient
and
offer
lower
rates
lower
prices.
It
will
also
benefit
the
the
border
community.
Q
Parents
who
are
paying
full
fee
will
be
able
to
afford
these
places
and
also
when
we
reduce
vacancy
in
these
using
more.
The
existing
space
will
also
help
to
make
the
current
existing
center
run
a
better
operations,
and
essentially
those
will
transfer
to
more
affordable
prices
for
Fe
families
who
need
childcare.
F
Term,
medium-term
and
long-term
initiatives
management
does
agree
with
the
recommendations
and
just
overall,
with
their
20
recommendations
that
we've
made
essentially
we're
not
taking
money,
we're
not
recommending
taking
money
out
of
the
system.
What
we're
saying
is,
as
you
move
forward
with
your
strategy,
you're
building
a
thousand
spaces
with
49
million
dollars,
there's
an
opportunity
also
to
make
sure
that
you
leverage
the
spaces
that
are
there.
F
The
vacancy
there
licensed
operators
who,
with
a
subsidy,
will
open
up
more
licensed
spaces,
as
we
are
informed
in
our
survey,
engaging
the
additional
nonprofit
sector,
I
mean,
given
that
the
quality
seems
to
be
comparable.
We
have
46
thousand
children
in
these
centers.
It
must
have
a
quality,
15
operators
or
13
operators
and
and
talk
about
their
quality
being
comparable
I
think
it's
an
opportunity
to
use
up
more
efficiently
what
we
have
and
think
about
as
you're
investing
money.
F
D
F
D
Okay,
so
and
I'm
not
trying
to
be
competitive,
I'm,
really
not
it's
just
very
clear
salaries
are
the
drivers.
I
mean
there's
no
question
it's
established
for
years,
so
I
wanted
to
ask
as
well.
I
know
you've
that
you
have
concluded
that
there's
a
deficit
of
14
point.
7
million
and
I
wanted
to
ask
the
deputy
city
manager.
D
What
do
we
really
have
a
deficit
of
14
point?
7
million
then,
because
that
is
the
dollar
amount.
That's
used,
then,
to
divide
up
over
the
number
of
spaces.
We
have
to
say
that
our
actual
costs
should
be
30%
higher
and
then
that
cost
is
what
is
assumed
to
compare
to
the
outside
comparators,
which
is
the
fundamental
basis
of
the
entire
cost-saving
scenario
that
is
built
in
here.
So
I
wonder
if
you
could
comment
on
that.
Thank.
N
You
councillors
through
you,
mr.
chair,
no,
we
don't
believe
we
have
a
deficit,
I
think
there's
a
philosophical
difference
in
terms
of
what
should
be
included
in
fees.
We
believe
that
our
fees
reflect
the
actual
cost
that
should
be
included.
What
we
exclude
is
minor
capital
and
that's
comparable
to
the
community,
where
they
generally
applied
to
us
for
grants
for
minor
capital,
and
then
certain
overhead
costs,
for
example,
staff
and
are
directly
operated.
Centers
are
very
involved
in
emergency
responses,
such
as
the
Syrian
refugee
crisis.
N
Q
Through
you,
mr.
chair,
the
that
is
not
based
on
wages
or
salary
and
at
all,
we
simply
use
the
actual
cost
operating
the
the
prices
that,
in
from
the
directly
operated
Center
that
what
they
charge
the
the
parents
to
put
their
kids
in,
compare
them
to
what
children
surfaces
pay
to
purchase
the
surface
from
the
contractor
Center,
and
that
that's
the
difference.
It's
because
they
would,
it
will
cause
a
parents,
are
like
we
say
about
2700
right.
You
re.
D
J
N
J
N
They
measure
quite
different
things
and,
in
fact,
when
you
look
at
the
ministry
the
way
they
do,
the
licensing
they
do
it
on
a
point
based
system
and
they
can
confirm
that
on
average
city
run.
Centers
have
two
points
on
the
scale
in
terms
of
occurrences,
whereas
the
not-for-profit,
as
that
eight
serious
non
core
non-compliance,
sounds
kind
of
dramatic,
but
it
could
be
as
simple
as
not
posting
something
that
and
it
could
escalate
to
something
that
is
quite
serious,
but
I
can
assure
you
most
of
ours
were
administrative
final.
J
I
You,
mr.
chair,
there's
a
variety
of
reasons
that
we
would
have
vacancies,
so
they
differ
from
site
to
site.
They
also
differ
by
age
group.
So,
for
example,
in
the
first
quarter
of
this
year,
our
kindergarten
spaces
were
at
24
percent
vacancy.
Our
preschool
spaces
were
at
nine
percent.
Vacancy
I
will
note
that
the
centralized
wait
list
of
the
divisions
working
on
and
that
has
been
recommended
by
the
Auditor
General
will
assist
us
in
filling
our
vacancies
as
well.
So
we
welcome
that
recommendation
and
we
welcome
the
development
of
that
system.
I
I
So
there
is
some
natural
gapping
that
is
created
in
the
system
and
additionally,
because
we
are
93
percent
subsidized,
we
actually
have
approximately
half
of
our
sites
that
have
no
full
fee
parents
attending
the
site
and
probably
very
few
on
our
waiting
list
as
well.
So
it's
a
little
more
difficult,
sometimes
to
fill
the
vacancies,
but
we
do
recognize
that
we
should
be
moving
towards
a
greater
efficiency
and
we're
hoping
that
the
waitlist
will
assist
us
in
doing
that.
Thank
you.
Just.
J
F
Thank
you,
and
through
you
chair
it,
it
comes
down
to
supporting
subsidies
for
children.
So
it's
it's
the
balance.
So
if
it
turns
out
that
efficiencies
can
be
found,
it's
not
that
that
money
goes
somewhere
else.
It
actually
would
go
to
the
children
and
bringing
children
to
the
system.
As
we've
talked
about
children,
the
system,
it
does
benefit,
children
and
quality
care
benefits.
F
J
Last
question
on
page
50
of
your
report:
yeah-
and
you
mentioned
in
your
presentation
as
well-
in
order
an
overall
13
percent
net
overpayment
based
on
a
sample
of
29
files.
But
then,
in
your
report
you
also
say
the
sample
was
not
randomly
selected
and
then
go
on
to
say:
there's
potential
of
millions
of
dollars
missed.
J
F
Thank
you.
We
were,
we
selected
those
in
answers,
part
of
the
work
that
my
assistant,
daughter,
general,
had
to
had
done,
but
essentially
we
selected
the
sample
for
another
reason
and
started
to
realize
that
there
was
information
on
file
that
showed
that
higher
incomes
in
certain
areas
in
certain
cases
and
lower
incomes
in
other
cases,
was
in
the
file
and
comparing
the
analysis
to
other
systems
like
ODSP
and
Ontario
works.
Essentially
their
stubs
are
use.
This
is
a
little
bit
different.
F
We
it
to
be
very
conservative.
We
didn't
want
to
project
that
amount,
but
based
on
what
we've
seen
and
also
based
on
studies
in
other
jurisdictions,
it
could
have
an
impact
of
being
able
if
a
parents
income
comes
up
goes
up
as
to
be
able
to
redeploy
that
money,
and
so
we
think
that
it
could
be
significance,
but
we
didn't
want
to
go
quantify
it
any
more
than
that,
but
but
from
our
calculations,
based
on
what
we
saw,
we
felt
that
there's
enough
there
to
say
it
was
significant.
F
A
Q
are
there
any
other
questions?
I
had
a
brief
one
I
believe
it's
two,
the
auditor
on
page
35
under
established
contracts
with
more
non
profit,
centers
there's
a
paragraph.
It
says,
in
our
view,
streamlining
the
divisions,
current
a
Qi
inspection
program
just
further
discussing.
The
report
may
also
help
encourage
more
nonprofit
operators
to
establish
purchase
of
service
agreements
with
the
division
and
as
I
read
the
report.
I
understand
that
there
there
may
be
some
barriers
to
others
establishing
services
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
F
We
surveyed
519
operators
and
we
had
a
very
balanced
I
support
and
also
challenges
with
the
AQI
system,
and
it's
an
area
that
I
think
is
a
success
story
for
the
city.
There's
no
doubt
about
that,
bringing
the
AQI
a
quality
inspection
program.
We
had
some
responses
like
it's
helped
us
as
a
non-profit
to
everybody
to
be
on
par
with
the
same
kind
of
service.
So
it's
helped
some
people
where
it
could
become
a
barriers.
If
somebody
is
not
quite
is
under
the
bar
its
if
it
becomes
a
I
guess
difficult.
F
If
it
becomes
burdensome
with
more
than
one
system,
we
had
operators
say
there's
more
than
one
system
the
province
in
the
city.
It
can
become
challenging.
So
the
I
know
that
the
city,
the
Children
Services,
is
committed
to
assisting
with
harmonizing
and
where
a
duplication
starts,
to
rise
to
make
sure
there's
no
duplication
in
the
system.
That's
the
first
thing.
The
other
thing
is
really
important
is
that
they
work
as
case
coaches
to
assist
nonprofits
to
work
on
so
that
everybody's
at
the
same
level.
F
A
Pose
the
same
question
to
management
as
well
is:
is:
do
you
do
you
see?
There
may
be
some
opportunities
in
that
system
from
what
I'm
reading
here
or
other
opportunities
that
would
encourage
more
operators
to
come
on
board
with
the
city
with
with
with
fee-for-service
contracts,
and
have
you
got
some
plans
going
forward
to
try
to
make
things
change.
N
First
of
all,
councilor,
if
an
agency
what's
below
the
bar
and
did
not
want
to
participate
in
the
AQI
I,
don't
think
we
would
want
to
enter
a
service
contract
with
us.
These
are
vulnerable
children.
There
are
many
reasons
that
we
don't
have
contracts
with
agencies
and,
where
appropriate,
we
do
reach
out
to
them.
But
some
of
those
reasons
are:
the
agencies
are
filled
with
filthy,
paying
parents
they're
in
that
area
of
the
city,
where
they
don't
have
a
lot
of
fee
subsidies.
In
other
cases,
it's
not
a
universal
system.
N
Since
the
implementation
of
fill
day,
kindergarten
has
undertaken
outreach
initiatives
pretty
well
every
year
to
look
at
opportunities
to
expand
capacity
where
we
need
it
in
the
existing
system
and
to
enter
contracts
with
new
providers.
If
they're
in
an
area
where
we
need
the
service,
the
reality
is
where
we
need
the
service
right
now
is
not
where
there's
a
significant
number
of
agencies
that
do
not
have
a
contract
with
us.
Okay,.
A
And
I
guess
my
last
question:
I
I
mean
I
three
kids,
the
the
youngest
one
has
fairly
recently
graduated
out
of
the
the
childcare
system.
So
I,
don't
remember
all
the
details
but
I
remember
when
seeking
childcare
I
mean
it
came
down
to
price,
it
came
down
to
location.
What
do
parents
use
to
evaluate
or
make
choices
with
respect
to
selecting
a
childcare
provider?
N
It's
a
bit
of
both.
We
can
currently
serve
twenty
percent
of
the
child
population.
The
growth
strategy
said
we
should
be
serving
fifty,
so
it
is
very
difficult
for
parents
to
find
spaces.
Cost
is
an
issue,
but
the
growth
strategy
has
introduced
base
funding,
so
we
are
planning
to
decrease
the
cost
by
10
percent
over
the
next
three
years.
The
that
portion
of
our
website
with
the
quality
ratings
has
many
thousands
of
hits
a
month,
so
parents
are
relying
on
it,
and
that
was
one
of
the
objectives
for
making
those
ratings
public.
Thank.
D
D
However,
I
I
think
you
know,
because
I've
spoken
with
you
that
I
take
it
I
take
exception
to
the
proposals
that
are
set
out
and
in
recommendation
one
and
that
underpin
the
entire
report
that
flows
from
it
practically
all
of
it,
but
I
do
or
those
elements
that
flow
from
it.
But
I
do
agree
that
there
are
some
administrative
improvements
that
should
be
made.
I
think
the
AQI
AQI
could
be
looked
at
again
and
I
know
it
serves.
It
has
caused
some
dissatisfaction
amongst
childcare
providers
and
I
understand.
D
Why
and,
however,
if
you
look
at
the
general
satisfaction
results
in
your
report,
it
shows
they're
very
high
amongst
the
childcare
operators,
so
people
are
fairly
satisfied
in
the
sector
very
satisfied
with
Children's
Services
overall,
but
I
think
the
report
before
us
makes
the
basic
assumption
that
we
should
transfer
the
directly
operated
childcare
centers
to
the
nonprofit
sector,
because
it's
more
economical
is
the
wording
you
use,
and
that
means
you
can
get
a
lower
cost
which
is
driven.
We
all
know
by
lower
salaries.
D
It
is
moving
us
in
exactly
the
opposite
direction
that
we're
trying
to
move
in
this
sector.
It
is
well
known
that
salaries
in
this
sector
are
low
and
in
fact
the
provincial
policy
is
moving
in
this
direction.
Moving
towards
a
standard
pay
scale,
we
are
moving
towards
investing
funding
in
that
direct
operation
of
childcare,
centers
to
break
the
relationship
between
fees
and
salaries.
That
is
why
fees
have
been.
That
is
why
salaries
have
been
constrained
in
the
not-for-profit
sector,
because
parents
cannot
afford
it.
D
So
we
must
begin
to
fund
to
childcare
differently
to
raise
salaries
while
keeping
fees
low,
and
that
is
the
direction
we're
going
and
other
levels
of
government
are
going
I,
don't
believe
it
is
right
at
all
to
say:
let's,
let's
use
the
salary,
the
higher
salaries
of
the
directly
operated
workers
to
redistribute
them.
That's
just
basically
wrong.
D
Secondly,
I
don't
feel
confidence
in
the
costings
that
were
here,
I'm.
Sorry,
I.
Don't
think
that
deficit
that
the
city
manager
spoke
about
is
really
thirteen
and
fourteen
point
seven
million.
The
city
can
only
charge
to
its
parents,
the
actual
cost
of
delivering
that
childcare,
and
it
cannot
charge
the
entire
costs
of
that
division.
I
know
the
administration
is
separated,
but
there
are
other
costs
that
we
take
on
as
a
division
that
can't
be
charged
to
parents,
though,
and
those
fees
should
be
lowered
and
we
should
be
subsidizing.
D
Those
fees
just
like
we're
going
to
be
subsidizing,
other
fees
across
the
broader
public
sector.
The
other
thing
that
I
take
some
umbrage
with
is
the
question
of
value
for
money.
I
mean
this
is
basically
a
value
for
money
exercise
and
it
basically
says
the
basic
value
for
money
proposition
here
is
that
when
we're
paying
a
lot
using
public
funds
and
really
not
getting
our
value
for
it,
because
there's
a
marginal
difference
in
quality
and
we
can
get
it
cheaper
elsewhere
and
I'm.
D
Sorry
I
think
that
the
reason
we
have
only
3%
3%
of
the
sector
being
delivered
publicly
is
because
they
provide
the
benchmark.
Ninety
seven
percent
is
contracted
out.
Let's
remember
that,
so
we
keep
that
three
percent,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
understand
what
makes
good
quality
that
we
demonstrate
good
quality,
that
we
demonstrate
good
wages,
benefits
and
working
conditions.
We
know
absolutely
that
quality
is
related
to
job
satisfaction,
job
retention
and
paying
people
well
makes
them
satisfied.
D
Workers
who
will
stay
in
their
jobs
develop
good
relationships
with
children,
which
is
their
job
and
will
be
better
at
what
they
do.
So
the
research
is
very
clear
on
that.
There's
no
question
so
the
quality
of
care,
question
I
know
it
comes
up.
Yes,
publicly
delivered
child
care
has
consistently
been
found
in
the
research
to
be
higher
quality,
nonprofit
next
and
commercial.
Third,
that
is
well
established
in
all
of
our
research,
not
just
in
this
human
service
sector,
but
in
others
not
saying
the
nonprofit
sector
has
poor
quality
childcare.
No.
L
D
And
someone
said
if
they
could
pay
as
much
as
the
as
the
municipal
workers
and
could
attract
and
keep
workers
in
that
sector,
then
their
quality
will
rise
too.
So
we
need
to
be
paying
people
well
to
ensure
high
quality
care,
and
that
is
the
value
number
one
value
we
want
for
our
money,
its
value
to
children,
not
value
to
taxpayers.
As
the
bottom
line,
we
are
providing
Human
Services.
D
D
D
The
word
overpayments
is
used
a
lot
in
the
section.
That's
talking
about
families
who
got
more
child
care
than
maybe
they
were
eligible
for
and
I
was
going
to
ask
you,
madam
AG,
what
overpayments
meant
I
think
what
overpayments
meant
here
was
that
some
families
got
more
child
care
than
they
were
entitled
to
and
if
that's
the
worst
of
what's
in
this
report.
Thank
you
then
I'm.
Okay
with
that,
and
we
need
to
ensure
that
more
children,
more
families
get
more
good
quality
child
care
in
the
City
of
Toronto
Kosar
health.
J
J
You,
chair
I'll,
come
in
under
five
minutes:
tough
to
balance
off
councillor
yeah
I'll
give
her
a
MOT
two
of
mine
since
she's
our
childcare
guru.
There's
no
question
about
that.
I
have
a
motion
to
move
if
the
clerk
could
put
it
up.
Initially,
I
was
going
to
move
to
delete
recommendation
one
altogether,
but
I
have
it.
J
I
have
a
different
motion
that
I've
put
up
there
because
we've
talked
to
city
staff
and
I've
talked
to
city
staff
online,
and
there
are
things
in
this
report
that
are
that
are
valuable
to
the
organization
that
I
think
they
want
to
follow
up
on
many
things.
So
I'm
moving
a
little
bit
of
a
different
motion,
but
my
focus
will
still
be
on
the
original
recommendation.
That
was
whether
it
was
there.
J
You
know
I've
explored
ASD
options
numerous
times
over
over
many
years,
and
one
of
the
propositions
you
always
have
to
look
at
is
value
for
money.
There's
no
question
there's
a
money
argument
in
this
report,
but
we
haven't
really
heard
a
value
argument
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
there's
no
real
evidence
that
outcomes
for
children
would
be
better.
So
without
that
I
think
we
have
to
think
very
carefully
I'm
going
to
speak
a
lot
broader
than
done
daycare.
We
think
very
carefully.
Before
we
go
down
the
ASD
rodent
any
of
our
city
services.
J
J
I
think
we
have
to
be
really
careful
about
that
kind
of
a
message,
and
you
know
I
looked
at
the
city
website
and
we
have
the
City
of
Toronto
talent,
blueprint
and
focus
area
number
one
is
employee
engagement,
I'm,
actually
going
to
just
read
from
what
it
says
on
the
website
says:
employee
engagement
is
a
strong
feeling
of
connection
that
connects
employees
that
employees
have
for
their
jobs,
their
organization,
managers
or
co-workers.
That,
in
turn
leads
them
to
strive
to
do
their
best
work.
J
To
ensure
the
organization
succeeds,
an
organization
must
work
to
improve
engagement,
which
requires
a
two-way
relationship
between
the
employer
and
the
employee.
Research
shows
increasing
employee
engagement
least
leads
to
improved
public
service
and
increased
citizens,
trust
and
confidence
in
government
highly
engaged
employees
not
only
provide
better
service
to
customers,
but
their
general
performance
was
better
than
others.
They
had
better
attendance
and
were
less
likely
to
making
investments
in
our
workforce,
such
as
employee
development,
career
growth,
opportunities
leadership
and
employee
recognition.
J
Programs
have
an
impact
on
employment,
unemployed
engagement
and
will
have
a
positive
impact
on
service
delivery.
So
I
just
want
to
leave
that
with
with
all
of
you,
because
I'm
sure
similar
reports
will
come
in
the
future
when
I
when
I'm,
not
here
and
I,
think
that's
that's
an
important
message
and
I
find
that
engaged
employees
are
much
more
productive
and
I
think
it's
a
challenge
to
engage
employees
when
you
give
them
the
notion
that
they
could
potentially
be
replaced
by
less
expensive
workers.
That's
all
I
have
I
moved
that
motion.
Thank.
A
J
A
A
P
C
Given
that
she's,
not
a
member
of
the
committee
but
I'm,
happy
to
carry
it
for
her,
which
will
appear
before
us
momentarily,
which
I
wholeheartedly
endorse
and
I
just
want
to
begin
by
saying,
I
I
strongly
believe
that
we
get
what
we
pay
for
in
almost
any
context
in
life.
Now,
I
want
to
give
you
a
couple
of
examples
that
that
I
experienced
as
a
local
councillor
in
war
22.
This
is,
on
the
other
end
of
the
life
spectrum,
with
respect
to
impact
on
seniors.
C
So
you
may
remember
a
few
years
ago
when
mayor
Ford
was
in
power
and
Kerr
instance
was
our
TTC
chair,
several
hours
in
the
evenings
and
weekends
were
cut
from
a
number
of
bus
routes
throughout
our
city,
including
the
number
74
on
Mount
Pleasant,
and
you
know,
the
argument
was
that
there
was
relatively
low
ridership
during
those
hours.
So
therefore
those
hours
should
be
cut
from
service.
So,
if
you're,
just
looking
at
it
from
a
line
item
perspective,
you
could
make
that
argument.
C
So
then,
if
you
look
at
what
we
are
providing
we're
actually
providing
really
the
only
way
for
the
vast
preponderance
of
people
who
live
along
that
section
about
Pleasant
to
escape
isolation
and
lowliness,
which
impacts
quality
of
life,
health
and
longevity
and
help
them
be
part
of
community.
Go
to
church,
see
friends
gain
employment.
What
have
you
same
on
that
same
stretch
of
Mount
Pleasant?
There
are
a
few
years
ago.
C
You
remember,
you
may
have
heard
of
a
guy
named
Doug
Ford,
he
used
to
be
councillor
and
he
he
suggested
that
we
should
be
closing
down
libraries
throughout
the
city
and
one
of
the
libraries
that
that
there
was
an
argument
made
for
a
closure
was
a
little
library,
Mount,
Pleasant,
tiny
little
library
which
has
a
relatively
low
circulation
of
books.
So
if
you
just
look
at
that
on
face
value
was
sure,
let's
just
shut
down
that
library,
we
don't
have
a
Tim
Horton's
along
that
stretch,
so
maybe
that
could
be
a
location.
C
That
being
said,
though,
given
the
number
of
seniors
who
live
in
that
area,
that
library
isn't
just
a
place
to
circulate
books,
it's
a
place
where
seniors
come
together
and
form
communities,
sometimes
is
the
only
place
to
go.
It
is
an
incredibly
important
community
center
and
contributes
to
their
health
and
their
quality
of
life.
C
Now,
a
couple
years
later,
I've
got
a
little
daughter
named
Molly,
and
my
wife
and
I
are
desperately
trying
to
find
a
place
for
her
for
child
care,
and
it
took
actually
six
months
after
my
wife
went
back
to
work
to
finally
get
her
a
placement
and
thank
God.
My
mom
came
to
our
rescue,
as
many
families
have
experienced,
where
she
basically
just
sacrificed,
like
everything
to
be
there
for
Molly
and
for
us
all
the
time
and
Molly
Molly
loved.
C
Her
e
sees
just
love
she's
in
JK
now,
but
she
loved
her
Reese's
and
it
was
a
this.
In
this
context,
it
was
a
private
to
child
care.
It
was
the
one
that
we
could
get
into
roughly
2000
a
little
less,
but
around
two
thousand
bucks
a
month
which
is
incredible
and
incredibly
difficult
to
pay
for
bleeding,
even
on
the
good
salaries
that
we
received
as
counselors,
and
we
found
that
there
was
a
really
high
turnover
rate
she
loved
her.
He
sees,
but
there
was
an
incredibly
high
turnover
range.
C
There's
a
woman
named
Christina
who
is
like
such
an
incredible.
You
see
and
remember
these
they're,
not
babysitters,
like
a
lot
of
people,
think
that
child
care,
no
EC's,
are
just
kind
of
there
to
take
care
of
your
kids.
So
you
can
go
to
work
yeah,
that's
true,
but
they
also
are
involved
in
programming
and
educating,
and
my
daughter
would
come
home
learning
about
things
that
I
just
could
I
did.
I
did
I
mean
I,
didn't
teach
her,
that
I
didn't
even
know
half
the
think
she
was
talking
about.
It
was
incredibly
impressive.
C
Her
EC's
were
helping
us
raise
her
in
a
really
wonderful
way,
filling
supplementing
things
that
we
didn't
understand,
including
just
the
getting
her
to
eat
foods
that
she
won't
listen
to
us
to,
but
Christina
one
of
her
favorite
DC's
left
to
work
as
a
receptionist
at
a
laser
eye
surgery
place
because
she
can
make
a
better
living
can't
blame
her.
So,
to
conclude,
you
get
what
you
pay
for,
and
yes,
we
should
always
be
efficient
to
me.
C
You
should
always
look
at
the
bottom
line
and
make
sure
that
every
tax
dollar
is
used
wisely,
but
we
also
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
investing
in
the
best
possible
service
that
we
can
provide
to
families
and
residents
across
their
city.
Those
two
should
never
be
separated
from
our
holistic
way
of
thinking
and
our
way
of
governing.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
You,
counselor
and
I
will
just
take
a
moment
to
briefly
thank
the
Auditor
General,
the
deputy
auditor,
the
entire
team
that
worked
on
this
I
think
all
of
us
know
the
amount
of
effort
that
put
into
this
was
put
into
this
report,
and
you
know
things
like
a
survey
to
the
industry
must
have
taken
an
enormous
amount
of
effort
and
I
think
everyone
appreciates
the
work
that
you've
done.
I
think
everyone
knows
based
on
the
public
debate.
A
You
know
somehow
related
to
employment
or
school
or
in
some
way,
that
is,
is
convenient
for
the
parent
to
get
the
child.
There
are
the
multiple
children
there
and
I
really
commend
the
Auditor
General
for
this
work
and
that
team
for
for
finding
these
things
for
looking
at
the
industry
and
I
also,
of
course,
commend
management
who
have
already
taken
steps
to
begin
to
implement
this
more
so
than
all
of
the
discussion
we
had
about
money
today
in
different
concepts.
This
really
changes
people's
lives.
A
It
allows
people
to
enter
the
workforce,
it
creates
a
bright
future.
It
changes
things
for
children
who
really
begin
their
school
life
at
this
age
and
I
know
I've
been
through
it
myself
and
I.
Understand
it
quite
well.
So
thank
you
to
everyone
that
has
put
their
effort
and
their
fingerprints
on
this
file
and
I
look
forward
to
it
going
forward.
Thank
you.