►
Description
City Council, meeting 32, October 3, 2017 - Part 2 of 3 - Afternoon Session
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=11865
Part 1 - Morning Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGCZn0FdhMA#t=10m46s
Part 3 - Evening Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7znRTOudE
Meeting Navigation:
0:05:34 - Meeting resume
A
B
You,
madam
Speaker,
madam
Speaker
I,
want
to
thank
the
men
and
women
that
are
here
with
us.
Toronto
paramedics,
EMS
all
the
different
names
and
I
rise
for
us
to
remember.
Trista
Smith,
her
husband,
Blake's
me
is
here
he's
also
a
an
employee
of
the
city
works
in
the
parks.
They've
got
three
little
kids,
daughter,
Kennedy,
corn,
Kyle
Trista,
passed
away
last
summer
from
cancer
and
we're
holding
a
tribute
to
her
and
want
to
thank
everybody
for
for
the
moment
of
silence.
B
I
also
want
to
thank
the
chief
chief,
attacker
and
all
his
crew
that
are
here
today
really
appreciate
having
here
and
her
partner
louang
that
worked
with
her
over
the
summer
time.
Thank
you
and
if
any
of
the
members
of
council
want
to
pay
their
respects,
they'll
be
upstairs
in
the
members
lounge.
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Thank.
C
I
just
wanted
to
thank
councilor
care
Janice
for
making
the
arrangements
to
have
our
some
of
our
men
and
women
here
today
from
the
EMS,
including
the
chief
I,
think
this
is
no
surprise
to
us
who
have
the
degree
of
familiarity.
We
do
with
our
first
responders
that
when
they,
when
one
is
lost,
this
is
something
that
very
much
affects
all
of
the
others
and
I.
C
C
Councillor
Kerry
Janice
has
had,
and
probably
a
number
of
others
in
this
chamber
of
going
out
with
you,
as
I,
have
done
on
the
road
to
see
what
you
confront
and
the
things
you
see
and
the
help
that
you
give
and
the
comfort
that
you
bring
to
case
is
kind
of
big
and
small.
Every
day-
and
we
appreciate
that
as
we
appreciated
the
service
rendered
by
by
Trista.
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Thank.
A
A
C
Yes,
dress,
counts,
yes,
I
do
just
on
one
other,
very
important,
a
matter
a
madam
Speaker
and
that
is
and
I
don't
even
well.
I've
got
three
I,
don't
even
need
the
notes,
but
Winnie
Lee
has
retired
I.
Think,
as
we
all
know,
and
as
a
condition
of
her
retirement,
which
actually
took
effect
last
week,
it
was
required
that
she
should
come
back
to
help
attend
to
urgent
business
for
one
day
of
the
City
Council
meeting.
I
think
the
urgent
business
is
so
that
we
could
pay
tribute
to
her
there.
He
is
right.
There.
C
I
was
just
looking
around
to
see
because
I
hadn't
looked
to
see
that
she
was
actually
had
come
in
the
chamber.
I
am
one
of
those
people.
We
all
arrived
here
for
our
first
day
at
some
point
in
time.
I
arrived
here
prep
somewhat
unusually.
Although
people
like
counselor,
Shannon
and
and
well
I
was
gonna
say
he
counts
their
heart,
but
no
he'd
been
here
forever,
but
councillor
Chen
well,
not
forever,
but
for
a
long
time,
but
people
like
councillors,
Jan
and
myself.
C
Think
there
was
another
event
held
where
the
same
plaque
was
represented
again,
and
so
they
decided
all
of
the
senior
people
and
I
think
probably
wisely,
so
that
we
would
embarrass
you
by
presenting
the
plaque
for
a
third
time
same
plaque.
You
don't
even
get
three
of
them
and
there's
no
coupon
on
the
back
to
get
you
a
free
anything.
But
having
said
that,
I
think
you
will
know
any
that
that
all
of
us
have
a
huge
amount
of
respect
and
affection
for
you
that
your
work
was
extremely
valued.
I'm.
C
Sorry
to
have
my
back
to
you,
but
then
I,
but
your
work
was
valued
by
all
of
us.
Your
work
was
valued
by
the
public
service
here
and
by
the
people
of
the
City
of
Toronto
and
I.
Hope
that
you,
that
you
have
a
very
happy
and
and
healthy
and
long
retirement
and
we'll
look
forward
to
seeing
you
back
here
and
I
understand
that
there
are
any
sort
of
expense
account
rules
or
problems
that
come
up
of
any
kind,
that
we
have
your
phone
number.
C
B
A
D
A
D
E
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker
I'm
I'm
willing
to
release
the
items.
E.X
27.9
I've
talked
to
the
staff
it's
regularizing
Toronto
for
all
a
public
education.
Sorry,
it's
page
four
e.x
27.9
regularizing
Toronto
for
all
the
public
education
initiative
to
support
Civic
resiliency
I've,
talked
to
the
staff
and
got
my
questions
answered
so
I'm
willing
to
release
it
now.
Okay,.
F
F
Madam
Speaker,
on
page
7,
PG,
22.5,
inclusion
of
them,
the
city
of
Toronto's,
Heritage,
Register
Midtown
on
focus,
fain,
wha
phase,
1,
Main,
Street
properties,
I'm,
not
releasing
it
now.
I
would
like
to
be
able
to
release
it
later
on,
but
there
is
a
supplemental
report
which
we
were
waiting
for.
I
know
it's
here,
which
was
just
circulated
over
the
lunchtime
and
I.
F
Think
some
members
of
council
wanted
to
read
and
see
if
any
questions
of
the
acting
chief
planner
and
his
report
to
see
if
there's
any
items
I
do
want
to
discuss
in
the
council
floor
or
if
they're
satisfied
with
the
information
in
here
so
I'll
know
later
on
whether
I
have
to
just
can
just
release
it
or
if
you'd,
like
it
held
for
a
debate
and
discussion.
That'll,
be
only
too
glad
to
find
a
time
with
you
all
to
do
that
as
well.
Anyway.
H
D
I
A
H
J
K
J
M
I
A
A
Okay,
yeah
we
first
we
wave
referral,
have
we
wait
for
Pharrell
on
favor
carry
and
so
yes,
it's
going
to
be
held
councillor
Fletcher
mm
mm
32.4
notice.
If
this
motion
has
been
given
this
motion
subject
to
referral
to
the
executive
committee,
a
two-thirds
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral
a
recorded
vote
on
the
referral.
A
N
A
A
A
O
O
A
A
A
A
O
A
Okay,
32
15
notice
that
this
motion
has
been
given.
This
motion
is
subject
to
refer
to
the
Toronto
East
York
communal
council
2/3.
His
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
an
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
hearing
and
has
been
deemed
urgent.
All
in
favour
of
waiving
referral.
A
Mm
32:16
notice,
if
this
motion
has
been
given,
this
motion
is
subject
to
referral
to
the
Toronto
and
East
York
Community
Council.
A
two-thirds
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
an
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
hearing
and
has
been
deemed
urgent.
All
in
favor
of
waiving
referral
carried
on
the
item
on
favor
Kerry.
A
Mm
3217
third
I
notice.
If
this
motion
has
been
given
this
motion
subject
to
refer
to
the
Toronto
East
York
Community
Council,
the
two-thirds
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
an
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
of
Ontario
hearing
and
has
been
deemed
urgent
on
favor
of
waiving
referral
carried
on
the
item
on
favor,
who
is
the
only
not
each
other.
A
Mm
3219
notice
that
this
motion
has
been
given
this
motion
a
subject
to
referral
to
the
Toronto
and
East
York
Community
Council.
A
two-thirds
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
an
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
of
material
hearing
and
has
been
deemed
urgent
on
favourite.
Waiving
referral
carried
on
the
item
on
favor
Carrie.
A
A
I
A
Yeah
mm
30
to
25
notice
that
this
motion
has
been
given.
This
motion
is
subject
to
a
referral
to
the
executive
committee.
A
2/3
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral
on
favor
of
waiving
referral
carried
on
the
item
on
favor
carry
and
mam
32:26
notice
that
this
motion
has
been
given
this
motion
subject
to
referral
to
the
community
development
of
Recreation
Committee,
a
2/3
vote
is
required
to
a
referral.
Oh
just
a
sec,
yes,
counselor
Grimes
this.
P
A
B
I
A
A
A
And
meant
3231
notice
if
this
motion
has
been
given,
this
motion
is
subject
to
referral
to
the
tirana
kneestr
community
council.
A
2/3
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
a
Toronto
local
appeal
body
hearing
and
has
been
deemed
urchin
arm.
Favor
of
waiving
referral
carried
on
the
item
on
favor
pardon
recorded,
recorded
vote
on
the
item,
young.
I
A
And
mam
3232
notice
if
this
motion
has
not
been
given
that
2/3
vote
is
required
to
waive
notice
this
motion
subject
to
refer
to
the
Etobicoke,
your
community
council,
a
2/3
vote
is
required
to
waive
referral.
This
motion
relates
to
a
Toronto
local
Peabody
hearing
has
been
deemed
urgent,
counselor
Palacio.
Thank.
N
L
A
A
I
A
A
A
A
O
A
A
A
O
I
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
F
After
you,
madam
Speaker
I
guess
either
to
our
chair
or
to
the
president
CEO,
and
thank
you
for
coming
today.
The
question
I
had
asked
at
executive
committee
was
in
regards
to
the
salary
review
which
I
understand
the
board
gave
some
instructions
in
the
summer
of
last
year
and
it
was
supposed
to
come
to
the
board.
If
I
understand,
is
this
correct
to
the
end
of
this
year?
In
December.
N
N
Counselor
in
response
to
the
motion
from
last
year,
the
board
took
the
motion
referred
it
to
our
our
HR
and
Environment
Committee.
It
in
turn
retained
independent
counsel
from
Mercer
Company.
To
look
into
this
to
provide
comparative
information
that
would
be
useful
in
evaluating
this.
I
should
tell
you
that
the
committee
received
a
preliminary
report.
Its
last
meeting
we'll
be
getting
the
final
report
at
the
November
committee
meeting
and
then
it
will
go
to
our
board
in
November
and
then
be
brought
to
Council
and
to
the
city
administration,
so
we're
providing
that
report
in
November.
N
F
N
Frankly,
councilor
I've
not
seen
the
report
I'm
going
to
be
getting
a
briefing
in
two
weeks,
so
I'll
have
a
chance
to
review
it
then,
but
I
took
your
point.
It
will
not
be
a
comparable
to
say
Exxon
or
some
other
large
corporation
it
will.
It
will
relate
to
reasonable
comparables.
That
would
be
generally
recognized
to
be
comparable.
F
N
Frankly,
council
I
wasn't
aware
we
were
taking
overly
long
and
I
apologize.
If
that's
the
impression
being
left.
The
committee
has
been
dealing
with
it
throughout
this
year.
As
you
know,
we
have
pre-existing
employment
arrangements
with
a
number
of
our
executives
right
across
the
board,
and
so
in
reviewing
this
I
mean
there's
certain
things
we
have
to
follow
in
terms
of
employment
law,
so
we're
trying
to
respect
that,
but
obviously
we're
going
to
want
to
ensure
that
whatever
our
employees
are
get
is
fair
and
reasonable.
F
F
Now,
when
you
compare
that
which
a
question
has
been
great
and
I
understand,
the
issue
often
goes
back
to
the
fact
that
you're,
a
regulated
company
but
regulated
is
really
regulated
as
to
what
profit
you
can
return.
So,
in
other
words,
your
capital
program
and
your
operating
fees
have
to
go
in
for
review
to
Matt,
to
allow
or
to
put
a
cap
on
what
you
can
do.
Am
I
right
correct
we're
very.
F
I
want
to
here
because
people
say
regulated
enough
and
say
what
and
then
when
you're,
comparing
that,
because
the
questions
been
raised.
Well,
what
about
Toronto
water,
which
has
a
huge
capital
of
program
and
budget
which
is
similar?
What
about
TTC?
What
about
other
city-owned
agencies?
And
when
you
compare
the
salary
levels
of
those
compared
to
the
salary
levels
at
hydro?
N
Don't
actually
know
what
those
folks
make
it's
like
I
can't
actually
comment
on
what
they're
getting
paid.
I
would
say,
though,
that
there
is
some
significant
differences,
for
example,
between
different
types
of
agencies
and
different
types
responsibilities.
They
have
and
different
corporations
that
that's
what
our
study
is
going
to
deal
with
and
counsel.
Are
you
finished?
N
A
Q
A
H
H
N
H
H
H
I
H
H
H
N
H
N
H
N
H
N
Aware,
what's
involved
at
Toronto,
Hydro
and
I've?
Actually,
I
was
involved
some
years
ago
with
the
restructuring
pdh
see
and
that
involved
quite
a
bit
of
interaction
with
water
over
the
deep
lake
water,
cooling,
so
I
did
have
some
experience
with
the
water
system
as
well,
and
I
should
compliment
mr.
G
Geronimo
for
running
the
excellent
water
system.
As.
H
N
H
N
Well,
counselor!
Yes,
we
we
obviously
report
to
the
Securities
Commission,
because
we
are
a
reporting
issuer.
In
addition
to
that,
we
report
the
entire
Energy
Board
a
lot
of
voluminous
filings
with
them.
We
obviously
report
to
the
shareholder
here
and
then
we
have
miscellaneous
other
agencies
who
have
an
interest
in
what
we're
doing
from
the
Terios
Safety
Authority
on
out.
So
yes,
there's
a
lot
of
reports
so.
N
L
N
L
N
Would
counselor
would
increase
our
borrowing
costs
and
obviously
would
have
an
effect
on
our
dividend,
but
you
might
want
to
Shawn
might
be
the
best
one
or
Anthony
in
terms
of
when
we
looked
at
the
reduction
in
our
rating.
We
did
look
at
the
cost
of
it,
and
maybe
we
could
give
you
some
further
information
on
that.
I'm.
L
Okay
with
it
with
the
value
just
taking
comfort
that
it's
significant
and
where
I
want
to
clarify
with
this,
is
that
this
hydral
have
compensation
policies
and
are
those
policies,
whether
or
not
they're
published
or
not?
Are
they
considered
by
investors
and
credit
rating
agencies
when
looking
at
the
totality
of
the
company
and
considering
whether
it's
a
worthy
investment
or
not,
absolutely.
N
I
mean
if
you
spend
any
time
with
tbrs
standard
report
or
any
other
rating
agencies,
the
competence
of
the
of
our
executive
team
and
our
financial
management
is
absolutely
central,
along
with
proper
oversight
from
a
board.
But
yes,
I
mean
that's,
obviously,
a
very
significant
consideration
when
they're
rating
any
company
would.
L
It
be
fair
to
say
that
compensation
policies
are
designed
in
a
way
to
properly
attract
and
retain
talent
and
I'm,
going
to
add
emphasis
to
retain,
because
would
also
be
fair
to
say
that
in
the
elec
tricity
market
right
now,
there's
a
lot
of
changes
going
on
and
there's
companies
that
are
merging
together
and
acquiring
and
moving
people
around.
That's.
N
N
L
The
interest
of
regulators
and
investors
does
Toronto,
Hydro,
have
compensation
policies
and,
in
your
estimation,
from
what
you
observed
on
the
board,
would
you
say
that
they've
generally
been
adhered
to
over
a
long
period
of
time,
so
that
there
is
ration
to
where
the
compensation
levels
are
today?
Well,.
N
I've
only
been
on
two
years,
so
I
can't
speak
for
what
may
have
been
around
10
or
20
years
ago.
But
I
can
tell
you
from
my
experience
in
a
couple
of
years,
I've
been
on
the
board
that,
yes,
the
company
follows
state-of-the-art,
a
compensation
reviews
and
and
and
in
terms
of
evaluating
the
job
done
and
setting
metrics
up
in
advance.
As,
what's
expected
of
members
of
the
executive
team
having.
L
Competent
and
stable
talent
in
place
on
an
executive
management
team.
Would
you,
in
your
estimation,
consider
that
one
of
the
many
risk
factors
that
need
to
be
managed
in
a
corporation
of
this
type
and
in
addition
not
just
you
but
say
somebody
such
as
the
OEB
or
an
investor,
or
maybe
even
the
city
itself,
when
thinking
about
its
asset.
N
N
They
bring
in
abilities
to
train
and
so
on
when
they
leave
there's
gaps
left
that
costs
us
money.
That
certainly
is
something
that
bond
rating
services
do
look
at,
because
if
you've
got
a
slippery
slope
of
people
coming
and
going,
that
indicates
typically
a
real
problem
within
the
company
either
the
question
of
competence,
morale
something's,
going
wrong,
so
yeah
I
mean
as
stable,
executive
team
indicates
a
company
that's
doing
better
than
their,
not
that.
O
Q
N
C
I
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Mr.
mcfadden
I
know
you've
only
been
there
for
two
years,
but
I
know
I've
been
on
the
on
the
hiring
with
councillor.
Denzil
know
what
deputy
depends
on
wrong
and
councillor
Holland.
What
is
this
like?
The
city's
criteria
for
putting
people
on
this
board?
We
taken
people
from
the
sports
industry
here
like
do
you
want
the
criterias?
What.
L
I
F
N
D
Through
you,
madam
chair,
in
addition
to
the
general
eligibility
criteria
outlined
in
our
Public
Appointments
policy,
we
are
looking
for
a
collection
of
experiences
such
as
experience
on
a
public
utility
commission
or
board
of
a
major
corporation
or
other
commercial
enterprise,
corporate
finance,
corporate
governance,
market
development,
large
system
operation
and
management,
urban
energy
industries,
public
policy
issues
and
laws
relating
to
Toronto
Hydro
and
the
electricity
market,
environmental
matters,
labor
relations,
occupational
health
and
safety
issues,
commercial
sensitivity
and
acumen,
independence
of
judgment
and
personal
integrity
and
financial
management
expertise.
We.
I
N
I
would
not
expect
you
would
hire.
Somebody
is
trying
to
make
beliefs.
I
I
have
I
mean
they're
I'm,
not
taking
anything
away
from
people
to
play
hockey
or
involved
in
sports,
but
I'm
not
sure,
that's
a
that's
a
good
qualification
or
somebody
who
runs
something
an
essential
service
like
electricity
can.
M
M
Those
were
across
the
board
raked
through
our
entire
operations.
I
should
also
say
it's
not
just
a
question
of
reducing
the
heads,
the
headcount,
but
also
our
work.
The
amount
of
work
that
we
do
on
an
average
day
is
increased
by
about
ten
times
so
about
half
the
number
of
employees
are
delivering
about
time's
the
units
work
that
they
did
10
years
ago,
I'm.
I
M
D
I
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker,
given
that
we're
talking
about
audited
financial
statements,
I'm
gonna,
try
and
stay
on
topic
closer
to
councillor
Kelly's
comments,
because
I
think
we're
making
wrong
comparisons
here.
So
as
a
corporation,
can
you
tell
me
your
net
income
over
the
last
five
years?
Has
it
gone
up
or
down.
M
M
Certainly
something
that
we've
worked
hard
on
absenteeism
last
year
was
just
over
three
days
per
employee.
Two
thirds
of
our
employees
didn't
miss
a
single
day
and
that's
certainly
something
we're
deeply
proud
of
that.
That
is
both
inside
workers
outside
workers,
management,
team
and
unionized
employees.
For
me,
I
look
at
that
is
really
a
barometer
of
the
of
the
engagement
in
the
morale.
The
employees
at
Toronto
Hydro.
Not
only
are
they
are
they
well
and
coming
to
work,
but
they're
also
engaged,
and
they
understand
the
important
role
that
they
play
in
serving
our
customers.
M
I
M
Certainly
aren't
of
our
biggest
challenges
about
one-third
of
our
assets
are
past.
Their
life,
in
other
words,
could
fail
imminently.
That's
been
our
biggest
challenge:
it
takes
about
a
billion
dollars
to
change
1%,
so
in
other
words,
we
certainly
have
tens
of
billions
of
dollars
of
renewal
ahead
of
us.
I
am
happy
to
say,
though,
as
we've
been
investing
those
five
hundred
million
dollars,
or
so
this
year
our
reliability
continues
to
get
better
each
and
every
year.
M
In
fact,
this
year
we're
running
out
of
the
best
record
we've
ever
had
followed
by
last
year,
which
was
the
back.
That's
where
I
could
we
had
you
know
until
then,
so,
each
and
every
year
the
performance
of
the
asset
has
been
getting
better
and
the
other
statistic
that
I
look
at
is
when
there
is
a
problem.
How
fast
are
we
able
to
restore
power?
M
So
the
duration
of
the
outages
and
those
have
been
getting
shorter
and
shorter,
so
for
the
same
type
of
outage,
we've
in
fact
been
getting
more
efficient
at
sending
the
right
resources
to
the
right
place,
with
the
right
equipment
to
get
the
lights
on
faster.
So
those
are
the
two
primary
operational
statistics
that
we
look
at.
Okay,.
I
M
At
the
end
of
the
day,
ICS
is
being
a
customer
satisfaction,
organizer,
a
customer
service
organization
and,
while
not
wanting
to
boast,
I
am
terribly
proud
of
the
team.
In
that
just
last
week
we
were
in
warded
they
invited
by
one
of
the
associations
in
Ontario
the
best
customer
service
organization
of
all
electric
and
gas
companies
in
this
province,
and
so
that
certainly
is
a
testament
to
Chris
Farrell
and
his
team
in
the
way
that
we
engage
with
our
customers
and
try
to
modernize
the
services
that
we
offer
our
customers
and
so
customer
satisfaction.
I
M
Yeah,
the
process
of
being
regulated,
I
think
there's
often
confusion
about
it
doesn't
guarantee
us
a
return.
It
simply
allows
the
rates
to
be
set
such
that
a
return
as
possible.
You
then
have
to
go
out
there
and
operate
in
accordance
with
your
plans
and
achieve
the
productivity
gains
that
you
committed
to.
In
fact,
our
regulatory
regime
is
called
incentive
regulation.
So
what
happens?
M
Is
the
regulator
sets
out
what
you
will
achieve
in
terms
of
improvements
for
the
year
takes
it
out
of
you
on
day,
one,
in
other
words
January
first,
and
you
have
to
run
like
crazy
to
achieve
the
targeted
returns
on
equity
and
I
will
say,
though,
that
over
the
last
twelve
or
fifteen
years
I
think
we
missed
our
return
on
equity
once
so.
In
fact,
most
years
we
actually
perform
higher
than
our
allowed
returns
or
those
amounts
that
would
be
set
in
our
rates.
Okay,
good
enough
for
me.
Thank
you
that.
S
M
Perhaps,
at
the
simplest
way
we
could
look
at
it
is
when,
when
we
had
the
3,000
employees
we
were,
we
were
delivering
about
40
million
dollars
with
the
capital
in
that
year.
In
other
words,
if
you
took
the
relationship
between
the
number
of
people
and
the
amount
of
capital
we
were
able
to
perform
with
those
people,
you
get
a
you
get
an
if
you
looked
at
it
today
with
the
workforce
that
we
have
today
doing
the
capital
program
that
that
workforce
delivers.
You
will
see
this.
M
This
increase
in
the
amount
of
work
that's
been
achieved
by
a
crew
on
an
average
day.
Those
things
are
achieved
through
a
whole
myriad
of
productivity
improvements.
You
know,
GPS
is
in
trucks.
You
know
better
information
about
where
they're
going,
what
they're
gonna
be
doing
on
the
date
materials
that
get
delivered
to
job
site.
You
know
before
the
crew
does
those
sorts
of
things
have
allowed,
those
productivity
gains
to
happen,
and
that's.
M
S
Okay
and
then
I
guess
the
most
important
question
because
I
don't
know
where
you
started
so
it's
hard
to
make
a
comparison
to
where
you
are
I'd.
Look
at
an
industry
comparison
would
probably
be
a
little
more
valuable.
How
can
you
can
you
comment
on
that?
I'm,
sorry
in
which
statistic
on
productivity?
The
your
time,
though,
capital
projects.
M
Right,
yeah
I
mean
productivity,
comes
in
all
kinds
of
forms,
our
say
our
call
center
performance
is
in
the
top.
10
percent
of
our
industry
is
just
one
example:
our
productivity,
our
we
have
both
contracted
out
resources
on
the
capital
site
and
our
own
internal
resources,
and
so
we
do
comparators
against
those.
What
I
can
tell
you
is
the
Ontario
Energy
Board
looks
at
these
things
rigorously.
We
do
comparator
studies.
M
S
I
M
M
S
M
S
D
Or
through
you-
and
this
is
regarding
just
the
so-
the
Toronto,
Board
and
I
have
a
first
question
to
staff
if
they're
around.
So
we
as
chair
of
the
Corporations
nominating
panel,
we've
done
a
lot
of
work
on
skills
matrix
and
setting
the
table
so
that
we
meet
the
criteria
that
we
should
be
meeting
in
terms
of
skill
set
and
so
I'm
just
wondering
if
we
have
met
that
and
what
the
I
guess
we're
looking
at
2019.
So
we're
going
to
reappoint
that
board
and
looking
forward.
D
Three
men
and
chair
that
would
be
a
conversation,
I
think
we
would
have
at
the
city
manager's
office
to
take
a
look
at
what
skill
sets
we
currently
have
and
then
assess
what
might
be
necessary
as
we
move
into
the
next
phase
of
Toronto
Hydro
strategic
direction,
okay
and
so,
but
we
have
I
know
that
we
have
increased
the
the
number
of
women
and
diversity
on
that
panel
on
the
on
the
board.
Is
that
correct?
That's,
correct,
okay,
great
and
in
terms
of
Alaska?
Mr.
D
mcfadden,
in
terms
of
you
know,
I've
had
a
conversation
about
this,
so
in
terms
of
innovation
and
technology.
We
know
that
a
lot
of
boards
are
not
even
necessarily
looking
at
energy
per
se
or,
let's
say
within
their
specific
industry,
but
there
is
a
cross-sectional
when
it
comes
to
boards
and
who
would
you
say
on
your
board,
make
have
that
expertise.
N
Well,
oddly
enough,
it
may
be
me
in
part
because
I've,
the
former
chair
of
centers
of
excellence
involved
at
York,
University,
so
I
guess
I,
would
be
partly
I.
Think
a
couple
of
the
other
members
of
the
board
have
have
a
background
in
that
you
know.
I
the
issue
and
counselor
you've
raised
a
very
important
issue.
You
only
have
so
many
positions
to
fill
and
you
don't
necessary
single
criteria.
N
Maybe
one
thing
I
would
comment
on,
and
maybe
it's
relevant
to
this
point.
I
would
say
this
at
the
board,
as
a
group
works
very
hard,
they're,
very
diligent
and
what
they
do
I
mean
members
of
council
are
on.
The
board
can
probably
attest
to
that
directly
here
on
the
floor,
but
in
turn,
as
chairman
of
the
board
I'm
very
impressed,
yet
we've
had
virtually
a
hundred
percent
attendance
at
meetings.
They,
our
management,
will
confirm
this
they're,
not
shrinking
violets.
We
ask
very
tough
questions
during
the
course
of
the
meetings.
N
The
the
board
is
very
engaged
in
the
strategic
direction
of
the
company
they're,
not
waiting
for
management
to
come
other
than
I
didn't
just
sit
there
and
wait
they're.
Not
now
I'm
not
saying
it's
disruptive,
but
we've
got
a
you
know.
It
has
worked
I
think
quite
well,
but
of
course,
that
the
board
members
that
we
have
have
only
been
on
for
well.
Basically,
nobody
has
been
on
longer
than
ten
years,
but
one
person
of
the
citizen
members
so
I
think
you've
got
a
hard-working
board.
N
They
they
two
to
date
at
least,
seem
to
be
able
to
cover
all
of
the
concerns
that
are
we
have
to
address.
Your
question
is
valid
if
we
had
somebody
the
outstanding
technology,
I'd
love
to
have
them
to
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
saying
your
ideas
or
that
idea
is
wrong
in
any
way,
but
I
think
in
terms
of
performance.
I,
think
this
board
works
very
hard
on
all
aspects,
including
the
innovation
aspect,
which
I
think
it's
under
misunderstood
and
under
emphasized
in
terms
of
understanding.
D
I
Thank
you
not
a
speaker
question
for
mister
Rossini.
Last
year,
when
we
went
through
the
budget
process,
there
was
a
concern
about
a
cut
in
the
dividend
from
Toronto
Hydro.
Can
you
just
refresh
counsels
memory
as
to
what
that
was
all
about
and
what
the
outcome
was?
Yes,
so
through
you,
madam
chair,
the
Toronto
Hydro
was
facing
an
issue
where
their
debt
to
capital
ratio,
meaning
they
were.
I
There
were
too
much
debt,
not
enough
equity,
and
the
fear
is
if
they
stayed
at
that
level,
the
OEB
would
now
let
them
in
their
rates
factored
in
the
higher
level.
We
didn't
want
that
to
happen,
because
that
would
eventually
lower
our
net
income
lower
their
rate
of
return,
so
we
get
injected
some
capital
into
the
business
by
giving
them
two
hundred
and
fifty
million
dollars.
So
we
made
an
equity
investment
with
our
investment
funds
into
the
business.
I
So
in
terms
of
dollars,
the
dividend
last
year
was
how
much
we
had
67
million
in
the
budget
and
I
believe
the
actuals
were
63
million
and
the
forecast
for
2008
about
fifteen
million
dollars
higher.
Because
of
this
move
that
week
it's
been
about
fifteen
million
dollars.
Eighteen,
fifty
right,
okay!
So
next
question
is
for
the
the
hydro
team:
what
is
the
state?
What
is
the
state
of
your?
M
Of
good
repair
backlog
through
you,
madam
chair,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
we've
got
about
a
30%
of
our
assets,
our
past
life.
We
think
the
state
of
good
repair
is
about
to
have
about
15%
past
life.
In
other
words,
you
you
don't
have
to
fix
all
of
it,
so
we
have
a
backlog
of
about
fifteen
billion
dollars
give
or
take
so.
I
M
Making
very
slow
inroads,
very
slow,
inroads,
all
subject
to
regulatory
approval,
of
course,
and
so
the
real
balancing
act
is
to
find
the
right
pace
of
repair
against
the
right
rate
impact,
and
so
we
are,
of
course,
all
very
conscious
of
the
rate
impacts.
You
know
their
customers
have
been
feeling,
and
so
it's
really
finding
the
right
balance
so
well.
We
would
like
to
do
more
and
have
the
capacity
to
do
more.
M
I
What
would
state
of
good
repair?
What
would
the
extent
to
which
you
have
a
large
outstanding
state
of
good
repair
that
would
also
affect
that
would
also
affect
product.
Do
the
product
that
you
put
out
there
and
the
quality
of
the
product
that
you
put
out
there,
because
I
know
that
in
my
ward,
I
would
say
I
would
say,
customer
satisfaction
is,
is
its
average
I
wouldn't
say
it's
it's
good
and
I
wouldn't
say
it's
bad
I
would
say.
Customer
satisfaction
is
average.
I
M
Cussler
is
I
did
say.
Of
course,
the
state
of
good
repair
has
a
great
deal
of
tire
with
the
reliability
of
our
grid,
but
it
certainly
isn't
the
only
indication
of
something
you
know
why
the
power
went
out.
You
can
have
a
storm
event
and
other
things,
and
so
it
is
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
have
the
power
go
out
is
the
state
of
good
repair
and,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
in
fact
get
better
at
that
statistic.
M
Year
we
will
well
last
year
say
a
bit
better
number
because
we're
here
for
16
we
invested
about
550
million
our
regulatory.
We
asked
for
multi-year
application
approvals
in
front
of
the
Ontario
Energy
Board
five
years.
It
was
our
last
rate
setting
period
that
was
for
the
15
to
19
period,
where
we
got
about
2.3
billion
dollars
of
capital
approved.
M
A
A
F
Madam
Speaker,
first
of
all,
I
served
in
the
Toronto
Hydro
Board
and
have
the
utmost
respect
for
I
have
no
motions
for
the
members
of
the
board,
both
the
citizens
and
the
public
members
and
our
members
of
council
and
for
the
staff
at
Toronto
Hydro.
My
question
is
earlier
one
of
comparisons:
TTC
14
billion
dollars
worth
of
assets,
1.7
billion
operating
budget,
1.7
billion
capital
budget.
F
They
run
a
rail
service,
regular
regulated
service,
lots
of
lots
of
issues
that
they
have
to
deal
with
as
far
as
what
they
have
to
meet
in
their
standards:
Toronto,
water,
28
billion
dollars
in
assets
over
a
1
billion
dollar
capital
and
operating
current
budget.
Our
new
realty
agency
is
gonna,
have
27
billion
dollars
in
assets
and
2
point
1
billion
dollars
in
operating
expenses,
Toronto
Hydro,
1.19
billion
in
operating
capital
budgets
well
within
or
below
what
the
other
agencies
have
and
responsibilities.
Yet.
F
The
salaries
of
the
chief
general
manager,
CEO
of
the
TTC
350,000
Toronto
water,
the
mains
of
250,000,
the
current
Realty
agency,
a
little
over
350
and
I-
expect
the
new
one,
maybe
slightly
more
so
then
I
go
ahead
and
look
at
what's
really
happening
and
where
we're
at
and
the
salaries
which
used
to
be
when
I
served
on
the
board
of
the
neighbor
of
what
a
$400,000
a
year
for
a
decade
or
comparable
to
that.
Because
you
can
look
and
I
get
the
overhead
on.
F
So
I
did
a
salary
comparison
and
you
can
see
the
salaries
if
you
want
in
2005,
and
the
bonus
came
out
to
23%
bonus
and
a
reasonable
salary
level
for
the
job
that
was
done.
Well,
that
continued
until
we
started
to
hit
2010,
where
all
sudden
the
bonuses
were
going
up
to
91%
88%
2012
I'll
bring
your
attention
to
it,
95
percent
and
go
up
to
the
present
now.
97
percent
million-dollar-plus
salaries
average
bonus
62,
million-dollar
salaries.
F
That's
the
issue
that
was
raised
and
the
bonuses
by
Councillor
men
and
wong
when
he
thought
that
all
of
the
agency
should
have
no
more
than
a
25%
maximum
bonus.
The
salary
should
be
comparable
to
it,
which
is
why
I
asked
the
question
2012.
Why
do
I
cite
that?
Because
that's
the
year
in
the
OMB
blew
us
out
of
the
water,
wouldn't
give
us
the
rate
increase
that
we
wanted
to
and
said
we
weren't
acting
well
and
in
fact
2013
2014
2015.
F
We
have
efficiency
rating
of
5,
that's
the
lowest
where
it
says
actual
costs
are
25%
or
more
above
predicted
costs.
I
only
have
information,
that's
online
and
available.
So
what
we
used
to
have
a
comparable
salary
for
our
executives.
Now
the
bonuses
and
the
salaries
are
substantially
more
and
the
corporation
really
isn't
performing
that.
F
With
a
fixed
rate-
and
we
couldn't
get
that
so
I
want
to
see
an
efficient
company
and
I
think
they
should
be
fairness
for
the
salaries
for
everyone
that
works
there,
but
I
also
have
the
question
of
the
people
that
are
trying
to
pay
hydro
rates.
This
is
a
big
portion
of
it.
People
are
having
trouble
paying
their
hydro
bills
so
much
that
the
provincial
government
has
noticed
it
and
actually
deferred
their
debt
to
drop
down
the
rates.
F
We're
not
doing
that.
We're
not
meeting
our
objectives,
we're
not
meeting
our
efficiencies
and
yet
with
all
that,
we're
giving
bonuses
averaging
over
60%
and
up
to
90
97
%.
There's
something
seriously
wrong
here
that
the
board
has
to
address,
and
many
of
these
people
that
are
there
getting
those
salaries
are
the
ones
that
were
getting
the
much
lower
salaries
years
ago.
So
what
I'll
do
respect
it
wasn't
a
bad
salary
before
and
it
wouldn't
be
bad
to
keep
it
in
line
with
that.
F
There
and
I
know
that
councillor
men
and
Wang
when
it
was
a
committee,
he
was
the
one
that
was
pushing
the
25
percent.
I
was
actually
shocked
when
now
he
was
defending
a
higher
bonus
level
and
he
actually
pointed
a
finger
at
Toronto
parking
authority
and
built
Toronto's
saying
that
Toronto
Hydro
isn't
the
only
one
late
reporting
bill,
Toronto
and
parking
authority
is
yet
he
served
on
build
Toronto
and
ever
since
the
new
president
and
CEO
was
there
which
I
didn't
appoint
I
wasn't
on
the
board,
they've
always
been
on
time.
F
So
I
don't
think
you
should
disrespect
other
companies
that
way,
which
is
what
has
happened
so
I'm,
just
asking,
what's
fair
and
reasonable
that
people
should
have
and
should
expect
from
their
hydro
company
and
its
board
and
I'm.
Just
asking
that
you,
when
you
review
the
salaries
you
review
it
in
the
context
of
what
the
citizens
of
Toronto
would
like
to
see
what
it
costs
them
for
this
dear
service,
what
they
can
afford
to
come
back
with
something
that's
fair
and
reasonable
for
us
to
have,
and
I
really
would
appreciate
that.
Thank.
A
D
C
Might
I'm
sorry
I
was
waiting
for
the
piece
of
paper
and
I
didn't
realize
there
was
no
speaker's
list.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that,
in
response
to
the
comments
made
by
a
counsel
shiner
that
I,
what
I
was
getting
was
a
copy
of
our
resolution
that
really
led
to
the
chain
of
events
that
mr.
mcfadden
referred
to,
where
we
sent
a
message
and
I
think
it
was
we
in
the
last
year
or
so.
C
mcfadden
said
is
coming
back
and
one
could
argue
about
whether
it's
taken
too
long
for
it
to
come,
but
I
certainly
do
understand
when
you're
running
a
board
as
they
are
over
there
in
a
way
that
is
consistent
with
corporate
governance
practice
elsewhere
in
the
country
for
corporations
of
that
size,
you
would
go
out
and
hire
a
consultant
and
do
what
they've
done
to
get
the
comparables
and
I
heard.
Mr.
C
mcfadden
answering
and
I
thought
that
his
answer
is
suggested
in
response
to
questions
being
asked
to
over
here
somewhere
I
forget
who
was
asking
that
maybe
who's
you
counsel,
shiner,
that
the
comparables
were
other
municipal
electric
companies
and
not
Exxon,
and
not
that
sort
of
thing.
So
I
guess
I'm,
just
optimistic.
It
was
a
very
interesting
talk.
C
You
gave
but
I
guess
I'm
optimistic
that
what
we're
gonna
get
back
by
way
of
a
report
we're
expecting
you
receive
over
here
after
the
board
has
seen
it
is
something
that
is
responsive
to
what
we
said,
and
so,
while
that's
a
valid
concern
today,
I
hope
it
won't
be
as
valid
a
concern
tomorrow.
Although
mr.
mcfadden
did
point
out
that
there
are
matters
of
employment
law
and
sometimes
contracts
that
are
entered
into
that
you
know
have
to
be
taken
into
account
when
you're.
C
Inclusive
of
merit,
pay,
so
I,
just
I
think
the
citizens
watching
might
have
had
the
impression
we've
kind
of
been
sitting
around
here
or
they
have
over
there
at
hydro
kind
of
just
letting
the
good
times
roll.
When
in
fact,
the
Corp
the
cities
of
the
City
Council
itself
passed
the
resolution.
It
went
to
hydro
they're
doing
what
I
would
consider
to
be
proper
in
the
circumstances,
a
little
bit
long
in
the
period
of
time,
I'll
say,
but
they're
gonna
have
a
report
back
here
in
2017,
which
is
what
the
resolution
said.
C
That
speaks
to
the
matter
of
the
size
of
those
bonuses
that
you
talked
about,
that
the
counselor
talked
about
madam
Speaker
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
really
make
sure.
We
registered
that
that,
in
fact,
I
think
action
has
been
taken.
There
is
now
response
coming
back
and
that
I
hope
that
will
be
something
that
will
be
responsive
to
councilor
shiners
comments.
Thank.
I
A
I
L
P
Saw
you
don't
have
to
shout
the
questions
I
like
having
a
microphone?
Yes,
madam
Speaker,
going
back
to
the
item
from
this
morning,
I
understand
that
the
framework
was
described
to
the
questioners.
This
morning
we
get
the
framework
I
I'm,
struggling
with,
with
some
of
the
contexts
that
we've
had
in
the
past
when
we
didn't
have
a
framework
and
I
think
some
of
the
questioners
tried
to
get
at
it,
but
I'm
trying
to
decide
now.
How
would
I
deal
with
this
in
the
future?
P
So
the
question
is
this:
we're
we're
only
moving
motions
if,
if
something
has
already
been
federally
recognized,
has
a
parliamentary
recognition
of
some
sort.
But
what
would
we
do
in
the
future
in
situations
like
the
ones
in
the
past
describe
the
Armenian
Genocide
is.
That
is
the
best
example.
It
has
taken
many
many
years.
P
It,
in
fact,
still
has
not
been
recognized
in
Turkey,
but
many
governments
came
to
recognize
it
through
communities,
organizing
and
asking
other
bodies
to
acknowledge
until
finally,
nations
began
to
acknowledge
so
we're
in
that
same
situation
going
forward
under
this
framework,
communities
are
organizing
and
they're
coming
to
other
bodies
such
as
our
own.
What
steps
could
we
take
with
our
communities.
D
Through
the
speaker
councilor,
there
are
various
ways
that
we
can
be
commemorating
any
of
these
activities.
It
could
be
through
any
existing
programs.
It
could
be
through
the
monument
policy,
it
could
be
a
proclamation,
it
could
be
a
flag-raising,
it
could
be
an
event
on
the
square,
those
kinds
of
things
so
there's
various
activities
or
events
that
actually
or
programs
that
already
exist.
D
P
I
think
you
may
I
either
I
misunderstood
the
answer.
Madam
Speaker,
or
you
misunderstood,
my
question
you're
saying
we
I
can
do
all
those
things,
including
a
proclamation
of
something
that
has
been
recognized
by
the
federal
government.
What
I'm
asking
is
what,
if
the
situation
is
an
event
in
history
or
an
event
in
recent
times,
is
not
being
acknowledged
by
federal
governments
and
the
community's
response
to
that
is
to
organize
and
come
to
other
bodies
such
as
municipal
such
as
province,
the
Armenian
Genocide
being
the
example
in
the
past.
P
It
took
many
governments
of
many
orders
making
proclamation
recognizing
and
finally,
nations
began
to
acknowledge
and
recognize
if
we
find
ourselves
in
that
situation,
it's
with
other
atrocities
and
the
federal
federal
governments
are
refusing
to
acknowledge
what
is
our?
What
is
our
ability
in
working
with
our
communities?
What
are
we
allowed
to
do
if
we,
if
we,
if
we're
stuck
waiting
for
nations
to
recognize
waiting
for
Canada
or
any
other
nation
to
recognize?
But
our
community
is
coming
to
us
and
saying
we
need
to
raise
awareness.
P
B
D
P
To
be
clear,
I'd
only
have
one
minute
left
so
so
so
then,
going
forward
until
the
nation
recognizes
it,
I
can
oh
I
can
organize
as
an
individual,
councilor
and
and
30
of
us
could
decide
to
do
the
same.
But
as
a
council,
we
can't
make
the
proclamation
until
the
nation
does.
Is
that
am
I
getting
a
right?
Yes,.
L
You
speaker
I,
guess
in
my
three
years
here
at
Council,
I'm,
always
amazed
at
how
we
spend
the
people's
time
and
I'll
just
use
that
as
to
describe
counsel's
time,
which
comes
at
a
cost
to
debate
issues
that
are
part
of
another
government
or
are
a
matter
before
the
federal
government
or
the
provincial
government.
I
guess
my
question
to
the
clerk
is:
do
you
have
any
advice
for
us
on
how
to
remain
efficient?
L
L
Understood
and
I
would
slot
the
this
particular
item
on
genocides
and
massacres
is
an
example
of
maybe
a
broader
category
of
items
that
do
come
to
the
council
floor.
So
this
report
I
think
helps
us
on
that
particular
subject.
Is
there
anything
else
that
we
as
a
council
could
be
doing?
You
know
we
just
debated
a
minimum
wage
in
Ontario,
something
that
has
been
dealt
with
with
the
Ontario
legislature?
Do
you
have
any
advice
to
us
about
remaining
efficient
with
those
type
of
discussions
that
come
to
the
council
floor.
G
A
B
P
B
A
C
P
Is
my
understanding
that
a
speaker
in
this
house
of
government,
or
any
other
or
any
other
order
of
government,
it
is
also
your
job
to
maintain
decorum
and
respect
in
the
chamber
for
members
of
staff
for
members
of
council
and
for
all
of
us,
that
is
the
role
of
a
speaker
in
any
house
of
government.
That's
why
we
chose
to
have
a
speaker
for
one
of
the
few
council
chambers
in
in
north
america,
that
has
a
speaker,
and
it
is
your
job
to
do
what
you
have
just
done.
I.
Thank
you
for
doing
it.
Q
Have
a
couple
of
questions,
so
is
the
I
would
assume
that
the
clerk's
office
would
be
if
this
doesn't
pass?
We
would
be
asking
your
advice
in
terms
of
whether
to
recognize
events
like
massacres
and
genocide.
Yes,
that
would
be
falling
you're.
In
the
absence
of
this
policy,
it
would
fall
to
the
clerk's
office
to
give
us
advice.
Q
Q
Q
D
D
E
E
The
reason
is
that
we
all
know
that
Toronto
City,
we
pride
ourselves
saying
that
our
city
has
the
world
living
with
us.
That
is
not
true
for
any
other
cities
as
much
as
ours,
and
if
you
have
the
world
living
with
us,
anything
that
happens
across
the
world
is
going
to
impact
us.
Not
because
we
hear
through
news,
but
because
there
are
people
who
live
in
this
city
who
are
directly
impacted.
Their
relatives
are
directly
impacted
as
we
speak.
E
E
I,
don't
think
the
mayor
needed
permission
or
any
form
of
motion
to
come
here
in
the
starting
of
the
day,
to
do
a
moment
of
silence
for
the
people
who
died
in
us,
because
that's
taken
as
something
that
we
do
naturally,
but
when
we
won't
agree
when
we
want
to
talk
about
something
that
is
happening
in
in
another
part
of
the
world
where
the
relatives
are
here
but
they're
from
racialized
communities
from
immigrant
communities
always
like.
Do
we
need
to
discuss
this
in
this
City
Council?
E
Everybody
has
a
role
to
play,
especially
a
city
like
ternal
that
prides
itself
saying
that
we
have
the
world
living
here.
We
have
a
responsibility.
This
looks
like
we
are
just
washing
our
hands
of
a
responsibility
warning
to
stay
silent
when
things
happen
and
that's
what
happened
to
Thomas
when
Thomas
were
protesting
on
the
street.
We
couldn't
have
anything
happen
here
at
City
Council,
because
people
thought
it
was
not
their
issue
when
tens
of
thousands
of
Tamil
Canadians
were
grieving
right
here
within
those
five
days
we
had.
E
Tens
of
thousands
of
people
died
the
you
and
only
recognized
that
after
three
years,
but
Turner
should
have
recognized
it
because
people
in
Toronto
were
grieving.
It
right
here
right
here
right
there,
so
it's
important
for
us
to
be
responsive
to
people
who
live
in
this
Inn
in
our
city
and
it's
important
for
us
to
recognize.
The
motion
like
this
restricts
ourselves.
E
I
asked
the
question
asking:
if
staff
are
warning
too,
if
a
staff
in
a
library
want
to
commemorate
a
genocide
or
a
massacre
that
happened,
and
it's
not
federally
recognized,
then
can
they
do
it?
I
hear
it
was
not
permitted,
it
is
going
to
tie
our
public
service
to
be
responsive
to
communities
that
that
are
looking
for
support.
Our
role
is
not
just
about
making
policies
about
trees
and
cars
and
other
things
it's
about
people
as
well.
E
When
people
need
support
people
in
emotional
support,
it
is
a
city
that
is
that
prides
itself
as
compassionate
thing,
so
I
think
the
indigenous
communities
was
talked
about.
I,
don't
think
the
federal
government
has
formally
recognized
the
genocide,
the
cultural
genocide,
the
targeted
genocide
that
happened.
So
if
we
wait
for
the
federal
government
to
do
it,
it
is
going
to
be
a
bad
move
for
us,
because
we
do
everything
else.
We
do.
We
do
on
workers
rights.
We
do
on
on
other
issues
that
we
talked
about
advocating
at
the
other
levels.
E
We
pass
motion
after
motion,
saying:
let's
ask
the
federal
government
to
do
this.
Let's
ask
this
as
a
provincial
government
to
do
it.
Why
can't
we
have
a
motion
here
that
asks?
Let's
ask
the
federal
government
to
examine
if
a
genocide
was
happening.
Why
is
it
wrong
for
us
to
do
it
when
we
have
a
significant
population
of
that
particular
community
impact
and
living
here,
and
it's
very
important
for
us
to
take
into
consideration
this
has
to
do
with
people
of
color
being
feared.
E
People
of
color,
racialize,
commutes
being
feared
and
being
uncomfortable
about
talking
about
issues
that
impact
them,
and
it's
very,
very
important
for
us
to
take
this
into
consideration
as
we
move
forward
so
I'm
requesting
that
people
either.
You
know
there
would
be
a
motion
probably
later
about
deleting
entirely
the
first
part
of
it
if
the
first
part
of
it
needs
to
either
be
deleted
or
be
amended
in
a
way
that
that
allows
the
City
of
Toronto
to
have
its
own
fingerprint
on
this
issue,
because
it
is
not
about
getting
involved
in
foreign
policy
issue.
E
It's
about
supporting
the
people
who
live
in
our
in
our
city,
the
diverse
people
who
live
in
our
city.
If
you
want
to
meaningfully
support
them,
we
need
to
hear
them
out
it's
on
our
streets
in
our
city
of
strano
street,
that
citizens
of
Toronto
from
racialized
communities
for
different
backgrounds
are
protesting.
It's
on
our
streets
that
these
things
are
happening.
E
So
it's
important
for
us
to
make
sure
that
our
neighbors
are
taken
care
of
that
we
don't
just
give
a
cold
shoulder
and
a
sigh
as
the
treatment,
as
we
have
been
doing
in
in
many
many
situations,
I
asked
I
asked
everyone,
and
I
also
want
to
see,
tell
folks
who
rely
on
un
to
track
to
check
the
track
record
of
un
in
terms
of
how
they
respond
to
genocide
and
massacres.
It's
always
been
political,
it's
always
been
delayed
and
and
federally
as
well
its
political
as
well.
E
You
know
federally,
the
proclamations
are
not
all
scientifically
monitored
it's
by
political
will.
That
federal
government
passes
resolutions
on
genocide
in
massacres,
so
it
is
a
leadership
issue
that
we
as
the
City
Council,
have
to
stay
on
it.
If
this
passes,
this
will
have
a
phenomenal
amount
of
negative
impact
on
people
of
color,
racialized,
community
immigrants
and
I.
Tell
are
I,
asked
my
colleagues
to
take
this
seriously
and
not
take
this
lightly.
Thank
you.
Thank.
L
E
E
The
intent
is
basically
simple
when
I
asked
about
a
question.
I'll
give
you
an
example.
When
I
asked
about
a
question
about
whether
a
group
of
staff
at
a
public
library
commemorating
a
massacre-
that's
not
recognized,
would
that
be
permitted
or
not
I
was
told
it
would
may
not
be
permitted
and
I
understand.
E
This
motion
doesn't
say
those
things
explicitly,
but
this
motion
has
such
an
impact
on
Frontline.
That
is
not
fully
disclosed
in
here.
That's
why
I'm
asking
for
guidelines
if
you
want
to
do
something,
that's
gonna
impact
at
certain
levels
that
in
our
boards,
agencies
and
and
and
and
in
our
frontline
work,
we
need
to
be
clear
about
what
the
impact
is
and
have
guidelines
for
it.
L
E
If
you
read
the
first
part
of
the
motion,
it
says
direct
upon
receipt
of
a
request,
city
programs
and
services
provide.
So
it's
not
talking
about
council,
its
face
city
programs
and
services
provide
only
of
violent
world
instance.
So
it's
not
about
council.
It's
about
city
services
and
programs
only
support
those
that
are
act
that
are
recognized
so.
L
E
S
You
so
you
may
you,
may
that
you
present
an
analogy,
an
analogy
with
the
victims
in
Las
Vegas
and
how
the
mayor
and
council
recognized
those
victims
correct.
Okay
and
then
you
spoke
of
genocide
is
now
maybe
I,
miss
understanding
genocide,
but
I
want
to
understand
how
you
perceive
it
is.
It
is
when
someone
says
there's
a
genocide.
Is
that
also
not
a
commentary
on
a
situation?
S
E
So,
for
example,
as
we
had
the
agency,
the
mayor
as
a
mayor
of
the
biggest
city
in
in
Canada
is
able
to
get
up
and
say
you
know
we
are
going
to
make
have
a
moment
of
silence
and
the
council
agrees
with
it,
because
that's
the
culture
of
our
organization
to
do
that.
We
should
have
the
ability
for
bracers.
S
E
There's
really
a
difference,
but
what
I'm
saying
is
that
if
there
is
a
will
so
there's
a
couple
of
things
that
can
happen,
the
City
Council
is
a
councillor,
can
bring
a
motion
to
say.
City
of
Toronto
council
urged
the
federal
government
to
examine
if
a
genocide
is
happening
in
this
country.
Caliburn
section
is.
A
S
G
S
E
Absolutely
that's
why
I'm
asking
for
guidelines
I
mean
if
counselors
are
not
informed
of
a
particular
situation
that
is
impacting
tauren.
The
reason
something
would
come
to
turn
a
council
I'm
assuming
it's,
because
it
impacts
the
people
who
live
in
the
City
of
Toronto
right,
but
it
may
be
a
world
event,
but
it
is
also
impacting
people.
So
it's
important
for
the
city
counselors,
if
I'm
talking
about
say,
what's
happening
to
Rohingya,
Muslims
or
Thomas.
There
are
people
who
are
related
to
that
particular
community
who
live
in
the
city.
E
I,
don't
think
I
think
the
time
factor
is
again
your
choice.
You
know
whether
you
can
educate
yourself
in
24
hours.
You
can
educate
yourself
over
two
months
period
or
you
can
abstain
from
a
ward.
You
can
make
it.
You
can
not
work
for
or
a
situation
because
you
don't
know
much
about
it.
It's
up
to
the
counselors,
but
that
shouldn't
determine
a
counselor.
Who
knows
a
lot
about
the
issue
from
bringing
it
to
the
table.
A
council
astern
limit
accounts,
less
ability
to
present
a
situation
to
be
brought
to
the
table.
Thank.
B
E
It's
up
to
the
so
what
I
saw
just
now
on
the
motion
is
that
we
only
said
we
will
follow
the
events
that
are
recognized
by
the
federal
government.
We
didn't
save.
You
follow
the
federal
guidelines,
which
means
the
federal
government
might
change
the
policy
tomorrow
and
we
were.
We
will
be
tied
to
that.
B
You
be
willing
to
I
mean
with
this
also
includes
something
consulting
with
the
communities.
For
example,
what
happened
in
Sri
Lanka
from
1984
to
2009
was
nothing
less
than
a
genocide.
However,
that
day
has
not
been
recognized
by
the
federal
government,
but
we
can
certainly
recognize
that
here,
other
municipalities
have
done
with
that.
You
know,
can
we
reach
into
the
communities
and
and
also
can
consult
with
them
on
such
an
issue?
I
mean,
would
that
be
part
of
made
in
Toronto.
E
I
think
it's
up
to
the
staff
to
go
back
and
develop
the
guidelines.
I'm
hoping
as
a
City
of
Toronto
policies,
have
always
been
consultative
made.
Internal
guidelines
will
include
a
community
consultation
but
I'm
not
pre-empting
or
I'm,
not
deciding
what
the
guidelines
would
be,
but
I
think
they
have
to
be
a
guideline,
because
when
I
asked
the
question,
the
answer
was
that
we
don't
have
guidelines.
The
federal
government
has
guidelines,
but
we
know
the
federal
government
doesn't
have
clear
guidelines
too.
E
B
What
you're
looking
for
is
something
which
the
staff
I
mean
to
do
to
do.
This
will
reach
out
to
communities
that
were
affected
with
genocide
or
massacres,
and
very
unfortunate
that
some
of
our
cops
don't
recognize
what
the
word
genocide
is
it
would
this
be
something
that,
like
that
you're
looking
for
I'm.
E
Not
again,
I'm
not
prescribing
anything
here.
I
am
asking
for
details
I'm
asking
for
asking
the
staff
to
tell
me
more
than
just
to
say:
we'll
only
do
it
if
the
federal
government
names
it.
If
you
only
tell
me
it's
not
a
tour,
no
answer,
it's
not
a
tour,
no
answer
to
say:
we'll
only
do
it.
If
the
federal
government
names
it
I
am
not
satisfied,
I
want
to
be
able
to
say.
When
will
you
do
it?
What
are
the
guidelines?
E
B
O
You
councillor
sham
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
your
intention.
Here
is
your
intention
to
say
we
should
take
a
different
approach,
because
we
as
people
who
represent
a
diverse
community
and
have
local
responsibilities
to
them,
have
a
different
duty
than
the
federal
government,
which
has
international
diplomacy
and
international
law
as
their
guiding
principle.
Exactly.
E
I'm
saying
thank
you,
you
shouldn't
be
tied
to
the
federal
government
explicitly
and
all
the
times.
We
should
have
the
flexibility
as
a
municipal
government,
not
reflective
of
the
diversity
to
have
the
flexibility
and
the
agency
for
us
to
do
things
on
our
own
rather
than
to
be
tied
to
federal
government
and
not
just
tied
to
federal
government
right,
a
very
specific
function
of
naming
those
events
at
the
Toronto.
I
E
Made
internal
guidelines
basically
to
state
the
council
what
I
want?
Why
not
sorry?
Why
not
because
the
city
staff
can
bring
us
information
on
what
people
are
saying
at
the
door
like,
for
example,
if
you
have
a
certain
population
that
is
impacted
in
Scarborough
that
are
going
to
recreation
center
for
services
and
telling
our
recreational
workers
and
youth
workers
that
they
are
facing
this
at
home.
That's
information
that
needs
to
filter
into
our
council
in
ways,
but
it
is
a
federal,
it's
an
advocacy
to
federal
government
to
have
intervention.
E
But
it's
for
us
to
remember
allow
us
to
remember
so
it's
not
about
whether
somebody
should
tell
us
where
genocide
is
happening,
but
if
the
population
feels
that
they
have
a
genocide
happening
to
them,
they
should
be
permitted
to
have
the
agency
to
come
and
articulate
it
through
counsel
and
be
able
to
commemorate
themselves.
That's
the
difference
so.
I
I
E
I
E
B
K
K
Remembrance,
condemnation,
Prevention
Month
I
recognize
that
this
that
this
particular
topic
is
is
one
that's,
creating
a
lot
of
emotions
and
a
lot
of
conflicting
thought
amongst
amongst
the
members
of
council,
madam
Speaker,
but
I
think
it's
also
very
important
for
us
to
recognize
that
when
we
talk
about
the
language
of
genocide
and
and
massacres
under
the
UN
definition
and
by
way
of
international
law,
it
becomes
extremely
technical.
And
we
know
that
in
international
politics,
that
also
becomes
extremely
political.
K
So
whether
or
not
something
is
declared
a
genocide
by
the
goodbye
by
the
Government
of
Canada
is
also
going
to
be
made
in
a
very
technical
and
political
environment
in
on
the
floor
of
the
UN.
So
it
would
make
and
I'll
highlight
that
madam
Speaker,
because
there's
really
only
five
genocides,
that
the
that
the
federal
government
has
says
it's
a
genocide
and
I
listed
them
earlier.
K
It's
a
Holocaust,
that's
the
Ukrainian
genocide,
it's
Armenian,
genocide
in
the
Rwandan
genocide
and
Bosnian
genocide,
but
it
doesn't
speak
to
the
other
genocides
and
massacres
that
we
know
are
out
there
and
not
acknowledged,
including
the
including
the
Cambodian
genocide,
with
three
million
people
that
were
slaughtered
there
and
and
and
and
I
hope
people
intentionally
to
be
destroyed.
The
Bangladesh
XI
genocide,
where
we
had
up
to
three
million
people,
also
killed
there.
The
the
Greek
genocide
there,
seven
hundred
fifty
thousand
people
that
were
that
were
indiscriminantly
brutally
slaughtered.
K
They're
gonna
want
to
tread
very
carefully,
but
I
think
that
in
this
city,
where
we
speak
over
a
hundred
and
sixty
languages,
we
have
cultural
ambassadors
have
called
Toronto
home,
where
literally
every
part
of
the
of
the
world
has
some
type
of
representation.
Here,
I
think
we
can
hold
ourselves
to
a
different
standard
and
I
think
that
standard
actually
should
be
a
much
better
and
more
accessible
standard.
I
had
some
difficulty
getting
the
Nanjing
Massacre
recognized
Bryant
by
our
protocol
office.
They
were
following
their
rules.
K
They
they
checked
with
Ottawa,
to
see
if,
if
it
was
recognized
as
a
massacre
and
what
happened
in
Nanjing
well
in
1937,
the
japanese
imperial
army
marched
into
that
country
and
in
china,
and
in
six
weeks
they
they
slaughtered,
raped
civilians.
Three
hundred
thousand
people
died
today.
The
japanese
nationalists
will
continue
to
deny
it
ever
happened.
K
P
I
think
it's
on
I'm,
hoping
that
that
that
is
possible
to
see
madam
speaker
you're,
looking
at
a
map
of
the
world
in
which
you
will
find
that
that
some
of
the
images
here
are
in
dark,
green
and
some
are
in
light,
green.
The
difference
between
those
those
two
designations
is
in
the
dark.
Green
nation's
actual
federal
government's
nations
have
acknowledged
the
Armenian
Genocide
in
the
the
light
green
nations
over
time
over
a
century
municipalities,
provinces,
federal
parties,
state
parties
have
recognized
it
on
the
pathway
to
a
federal
designation,
because
that
is
the
journey.
P
That
is
the
journey
of
the
recognition
of
genocide.
In
most
cases,
there's
always
there's
always
a
group
that
don't
want
it
recognized
that
will
that
will
stand
against
that
recognition,
it's
painful
for
them
as
it
is
for
the
victims,
particularly
if
they
are
the
descendants.
It's
not
it's
not
there.
It's
not
there
wrong
and-
and
they
feel
pained
at
having
to
acknowledge
and
take
responsibility
for
wrongdoing,
and
so
it's
always
difficult
to
achieve
that
designation,
Plus.
P
What
councilor
wong-tam
was
getting
at
that
that
that,
in
the
case
of
The
Rape
of
Nanking,
it's
true
that
it's
true
that
a
growing
a
growing
need
to
acknowledge
it
and
move
on
is
developing
within
that
the
society
that
are
descendants
of
perpetrators,
but
not
enough,
so
that
their
nation
is
not
going
to
organize
against
that
recognition,
and
so
other
nations
recognize
that's
how
this
happens
again
and
again.
I'll
turn
that
off,
so
that
you
won't
end
up
eventually.
P
Looking
at
my
screen
saver,
madam
Speaker
I'm
supporting
I'm
supporting
the
motion
by
councillor
Shan,
because
it
is
in
essence
asking
staff
to
take
another
kick
at
the
can.
This
is
a
report
directly
to
us.
We
made
a
request
and
they're
reporting
directly
to
Council
I,
don't
know
if
you'll
be
having
clerks
designate
that
if
it's
going
to
come
back,
it
actually
ought
to
make
its
way
to
council
through
a
committee,
but
I
would
suggest
that
that
would
be
the
best
pathway
for
it
to
find
its
way
back
to
council.
P
P
Perhaps
it
has
to
be
made
clear
that
there
have
to
be
sponsors.
There
has
to
be
whatever
it
has
to
go
through
whatever
committee
path
before
it
finds
its
way
here
that
councils
general
have
to
be
contacted
whatever.
Whatever
is
the
made
in
Toronto
solution,
we
know
from
history
that
there
are
going
to
be
those
situations
where
you
only
get
to
the
acknowledgement
that
that
people
so
badly
need
federally
by
starting
in
in
grassroots
communities.
Then
municipalities,
then
political
parties,
and
so
on,
and
so
on.
Until
you
get
that
nation's
recognition,
those
are
my
comments.
H
Q
Yes,
thank
you,
man,
Madam's
chair,
so
I
I'm
actually
quite
happy
with
this
report.
It's
it's
something
that
I
wanted
to
see.
I've
seen.
A
number
of
things
happen
over
my
time
on
council,
where
recognitions
take
place
in
a
less
than
organized,
rational
and
reasoned
way,
and
so
I
think
that
we
have
to
put
some
sort
of
framework
around
this
and
I
believe
the
Public
Service
have
to
have
done
that
quite
nicely.
Q
Q
There
was
some
discussion
in
this
room
about
recognizing
grassroots
movements
where
people
come
down
to
City
Hall,
and
you
know
they
want
this
recognized
the
words
Massacre
and
genocide
are
extremely
serious
words
and
they
have
to
be
taken
very
seriously
and
just
because
there's
a
movement
to
recognize
something
that
happened
doesn't
necessarily.
We
pick
two
of
the
most
serious
words
we
could
find
to
put
a
black
mark
where
maybe
justify,
but
a
black
mark
on
a
particular
group
of
individuals.
Q
So
I
think
this
is
the
way
to
go
staff,
don't
have
the
resources
and
then
you
know,
I,
see
I,
see
notice
of
I
have
seen
notices
of
motion
coming
on
this
council.
For,
for
the
for
these
type
of
recognitions
and
I,
don't
believe
this
council
has
the
and,
with
the
counselors,
have
the
bandwidth
to
properly
deliberate
or
decide
this
and
do
the
proper
research
themselves.
This
makes
it
this
this.
This
makes
it
a
whole
lot
easier.
Q
Fundamentally,
this
counsel
should
it
be
dealing
with
international
issues.
I
know
that
many
of
people
would
like
to
consider
themselves.
You
know
MPs
and
and
international
international
relations
and
experts,
but
that's
not
what
we
were
brought
here
to
do.
We
were
brought
here
to
make
decisions,
local
decisions,
so
I
think
we
should
be
spending
our
time
doing
things
on
a
local
basis.
The
federal
government
is
the
proper
forum.
They
have
the
resources
to
do
this.
Q
There
is
some
what
and
there
will
be
some
level
of
level
of
uniformity,
and
it
will
stop
the
divisive
debates
that
we
can
have
that
we've
been
having
in
council
that
some
councillors
actually
invited
and
enjoy
and
promote.
We
can
have
a.
We
can
have
a
way
of
dealing
with
this.
That
will
solve
all
those
all
those
issues
and
all
that
unrest
and
unhappiness
and
division
this
and
we
can
adopt
an
approach
that
makes
sense
for
us
where
we
recognize
these
things
in
a
in
an
intelligent
way.
B
You,
madam
chair
II,
do
have
a
motion
if
the
staff
can
put
it
on
the
on
the
board,
and
the
motion
reads
that
council
should
apologize
to
their
wonted
community
for
not
permitting
the
Rwanda
flag
to
graze
that
City
Hall
in
2017
for
the
commemoration
of
the
Rwanda
genocide.
We
were
going
through
these
deliberations.
The
people
that
suffered
the
most
and
we're
the
recognized
has
been
done
at
the
United
Nations
we're
not
able
to
raise
the
flag.
Now
for
my
colleague
that
does
not
know
the
word
genocide.
Allow
me
to
read
it
and
I
hope.
B
Counselor.
You
understand
this
consul
Burnside,
so
office
of
the
UN
special
advisor
on
the
Prevention
of
genocide
reads
legal
definition
of
genocide.
Genocide
is
defined
in
article
2
of
the
convention
of
the
prevention
and
punishment
of
the
crime
of
genocide,
1948,
as
as
any
following
acts
committed
with
intent
to
destroy
in
whole
or
in
part
a
national,
ethnic
or
racial
or
religious
group.
As
such,
killing
members
of
the
group
causing
serious
bodily
or
mental
heart
to
members
of
a
group
deliberate
inflicting
on
the
group
conditions
of
life
calculated
to
bring
about
its
physical
destruction.
B
In
whole,
or
in
part,
imposing
measures
intended
to
prevent
birth
within
the
group
and
forcibly
transferring
children
of
the
group
to
another
group,
madam
Speaker,
we
have
had
many
genocides
and
a
lot
of
them
have
been
recognized
on
this
floor.
So
in
the
last
century,
I
will
go
down
the
list
and
maybe
I
missed
up.
There's
the
punching
Greek
genocide,
there's
the
Romanian
genocide
that
was
recognized
in
the
House
of
Commons
and
here
the
whole
amador,
the
Nanjing
Massacre,
the
Holocaust,
when
the
Holocaust
and
Hitler
was
deciding
in
the
last
solution.
B
He
quoted
in
a
August
of
1939,
who
remembers
there
manian
genocide
and
who
went
on
to
perpetrate
six
million
deaths.
Cambodia,
although
it
has
been
recognizing
them
that
I
could
be
wrong
here.
Millions
of
people
died,
Cyprus
the
invasion
of
Cyprus
1,700
people
are
still
missing
in
Kurdistan
when
Saddam
Hussein,
the
man
that
we
hated
the
most
in
1988
of
marched,
he
absolutely
destroyed
his
own
people
in
Halabja
and
he
killed
5000
by
gassing
them.
The
Anfal
genocide
in
the
same
place,
150,000
Kurds
were
killed
and
today
we're
asking
them
to
help
us
fight
Isis.
B
What
happened
in
Darfur
in
Sri
Lanka,
hundreds
of
thousands
of
Tamils,
your
people
were
ravaged,
your
people
were
killed
after
the
tsunami,
I
went
to
point
pedra
in
the
north,
and
the
army
was
too
busy
putting
their
sheds
back
together.
They
didn't
give
a
damn
about
the
Tamil
people
in
Syria
today,
what's
happening
today
in
Roy
hinga,
it
does
not
take
a
rocket
scientist.
B
The
only
thing
you
got
to
read
is
the
definition,
and
if
anybody
wants
the
definition,
I'll,
certainly
sir,
so
the
situation
is
that
we
that
represent
the
most
ethnically
diverse
city
in
the
world.
We
have
the
largest
diplomatic
core
that
any
after
any
capital,
and
only
after
New
York
City,
where
they
got
United
Nations,
the
largest
diplomatic
core
is
in
this
country.
These
people
come
to
us
and
say
we
want
something
yesterday,
the
Nigerians,
how
many
of
you
remember
what
happened
by
a
fray,
1969-1970
guess
what
folks
it's
happening
right
now.
B
The
Nigerians
came
and
protested
outside
for
their
government
to
send
a
message.
They
couldn't
go
to
Queens
Park.
They
started
from
Queens
Park
and
came
here.
Not
everybody
can
go
to
Ottawa
in
Ottawa.
Does
not
always
listen,
the
government
of
the
day
has
interests
in
trade
and
when
he
came
to
their
minion
genocide,
the
minister
of
the
day,
Bill
Graham,
my
colleague,
says:
don't
recognize
it.
Why?
B
Because
they
had
interest
in
selling
the
nuclear
reactors
to
Turkey
and
Turkey,
threatened
that
if
we
recognized
there
may
be
a
genocide
that
we're
not
going
to
buy
the
nuclear
reactors
and
AEC
I
was
going
to
go
out
of
business.
Well,
you
just
don't
put
your
head
as
an
ostrich
in
the
sand
and
say
this
didn't
happen.
Ask
James
ask
mr.
shiner
asked
me
and
the
rest
james,
faster
man
Nathan.
We
are
products
on
the
genocide.
Ask
my
good
friend
Joe,
my
havoc
you'll
tell
you
what
happened
in
this
country?
B
Inserting
a
pizza
and
separately
say.
You
know
it
is
all
around
us
and
it's
not
a
laughing
matter,
counselor,
absolutely
not
because
the
people
that
we
represent.
Those
are
the
people
that
come
to
us
and
say
we
want
our
voices
to
be
heard
and
what
happened
in
this
council,
but
I
recognize
the
panthéon
genocide
right
now.
It's
one
of
the
sentence.
Thank.
L
It
takes
enormous
resources
to
run
this
chamber
and
every
second
that
ticks
by
and
every
minute
that
ticks
by
comes
at
a
cost
and
there's
two
costs:
there's
a
financial
one,
but
there's
also
the
impact
on
the
business
of
the
city
and
so
in
respect
of
that
I'm
going
to
be
really
brief,
but
I
struggle
with
this
a
lot,
because
I
think
about
the
types
of
things
that
councillors
are
supposed
to
manage.
We're
supposed
to
resource
the
Machine
here
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
clean
flowing
water,
that
we've
got
waste.
L
That's
picked
up
that
we've
got
roads
that
work,
that
we've
got
city,
planning
and
development
that
it
occurs
and
I
don't
know
about
you,
but
I
feel
significantly
challenged
just
to
make
sure
that
that
happens.
But
what
we're
talking
about
in
the
chamber
today
is
is
actually
another
line
of
business.
It's
almost
like
discussing
setting
up
a
secretariat
to
support
us
to
discuss
world
issues.
L
I
don't
mean
to
belittle
or
or
take
away
from
the
importance
these
are
on
people
I
believe
that
I
believe,
even
with
my
own
family
experiences,
we've
got
our
own
take
on
world
politics,
but
I
really
struggle
when
that
type
of
politics
enters
this
chamber,
because
I
think
it
really
should
be
left
for
those
orders
of
government
where
it
belongs.
I
think
we
have
our
hands
full
just
dealing
with
the
bricks
and
mortar
of
keeping
this
place.
Operational
and
I
would
just
suggest
the
councillors.
L
When
you're
thinking
about
this
motion,
you
really
keep
your
focus
on.
What's
the
matter
at
hand,
what
the
constituents
ask
of
us,
the
really
simple
day-to-day
things
that
we
struggle
just
to
deliver
as
we
are
as
a
group
and
really
think
about
what
the
value
is
and
what
the
necessity
is
is
to
go
into
another
line
of
business
in
another
layer
of
debate
and
create
another
piece
of
government
and
another
piece
of
machinery
to
handle
world
issues
with
that
I
just
hope.
We
keep
focused
on
our
jobs
here.
R
From
my
perspective,
the
sort
of
the
conversation
that
we're
having
here
today
is
this:
the
provincial
government
sort
of
created.
We
are
creation
of
the
province
right.
Our
staff
will
tell
us
all
the
time,
we're
members
of
a
board
of
directors
right
with
very,
very
with
a
very,
very
specific
role
in
terms
of
what
this
government
is
legally
entitled
and
legislated
to
do
and
and
and
what
we
should
be
doing,
etcetera,
etcetera,
etcetera.
R
You
all
know
it
you've
all
heard
it
you're,
a
member
of
the
board
of
directors,
of
the
incorporated
of
the
corporation
of
the
City
of
Toronto,
incorporated
by
the
province
of
Ontario,
a
creation
of
the
province
of
Ontario
problem
with
that.
Is
this
that
your
public,
your
residents,
don't
see
you
as
a
member
of
a
board
of
directors.
R
They
don't
see
you
as
just
the
guy
or
woman
that
is
here
to
deal
with,
stop
signs
planning
application,
bylaw
infractions
or
whatever
else
it
is
that
is,
that
is
included
in
that
definition
of
the
board
of
directors
of
the
City
of
Toronto.
They
see
you
and
they
elect
you
to
be
their
voice,
their
representative,
and
they
see
the
City
of
Toronto
as
a
level
of
government,
whether
you
like
it
or
not,
they
don't
see
it
as
a
board
of
directors.
R
I
think
that,
if
tradition
and
we
have
an
element
of
embody
of
law
in
an
element
of
our
law
or
a
body
of
law
that
is
traditionally
a
basting
tradition,
tradition
would
suggest
that
your,
albeit
on
a
much
smaller
level
of
government,
than
both
the
federal
and
the
provincial
governments,
but
a
level
of
government.
Nonetheless,
so
your
public
comes
to
you
and
says
my
voice.
My
representative,
which
you
are
I,
want
to
chat
with
you
about
this
very,
very
important
issue.
It's
an
important
issue
to
me
in
my
community.
R
R
R
R
So
yes,
while
it's
sometimes
it
is
hard
hard
for
us
to
sit
here
for
some
hours
on
end
to
debate
a
subject
area
which
we
are
generally
speaking,
a
very
very
have
very
little
knowledge
of
we're
dependent
on
information
from
people
who
are
more
knowledgeable
than
we
are.
And
yes,
we
don't
have
it
as
a
department
like
the
parks
department
or
the
Works
Department,
or
we
don't
have
the
expertise
on
staff
to
be
able
to.
You
know,
say:
let's
get
on
a
plane
and
let's
go
to
that
country.
Let's
figure
out
what
happened
there.
R
Let's
go
visit.
Those
folks
like
they
do
in
in
Ottawa
or
or
like
they
may
be
able
to
do
at
Queen's
Park
because
they
have
some
capacity
to
do
that
at
Queen's
Park
as
well.
While
we
may
not
be
able
to
do
that,
we
are
the
holding
board,
the
early
sounding
board
and,
quite
frankly,
any
position
which
we
take
on.
R
It
is
a
City
position
and
sometimes
an
uninformed
position
in
many
cases,
but
a
position
nonetheless,
which
carries
some
weight
and
which
has
some
relevance
and
some
importance
and
we
shouldn't
be
afraid
to
have
those
conversations
here.
We
shouldn't
be
afraid
to
educate
ourselves
enough
and
we
shouldn't
be
afraid
to
spend
a
little
time
or
not
because
that's
what
our
public
expects
of
us,
that's
what
they
pay
us
for
to
be
their
advocates
to
be
their
voice
on
a
great
range
of
issues.
I
But
I
think
I
will
present
a
counterpoint
which
is
simply
to
say
that
we
are
indeed
a
city
of
many
people
and
a
city
of
many
people
with
different
backgrounds
and
in
representing
our
residents.
I
believe
we
have
a
duty
to
represent
their
history,
both
the
good
and
the
awful
and
the
tragic,
and
so
just
as
we
as
a
city
raise
national
flags
for
countries.
I
We
should
also
recognize
those
genocides
that
have
taken
place
so
that
we
collectively
never
forget,
but
also
so
that
we
remain
in
our
a
welcoming
city
to
people
from
around
the
world,
and
it's
for
that
reason
that
I'll
be
supporting
councillor,
Wong,
Tam's
motion
and
I
hope
you
will
be
too.
Thank
you.
P
I
A
J
There
was
a
rather
lively
debate
at
executive
committee
on
on
this
item
and
and
I'm
just
curious,
so
the
new
provincial
election
rules
allow
any
corporation
or
any
individual
to
erect
billboards
that
that
can
influence
the
outcome
of
the
election.
With
the
purpose
of
influencing
the
outcome
of
the
auction.
T
Through
the
speaker,
the
municipal
election
act,
in
addition
to
an
individual
and
a
corporation,
also
enables
trade
unions
to
advertise
on
a
billboard
or
another
form
of
advertising.
As
long
as
they
register
with
the
city
clerk
and
follow
the
rules
outlined
in
the
MEA
and
the
intent
would
be
to
oppose
or
support
a
candidate
in
the
election.
So.
J
T
This
or
perks
through
the
speaker,
the
intent
of
advertising,
isn't
really
issue
based
it's
more
around
supporting
or
opposing
an
actual
individual
candidate
and
in
your
example
of
the
developer,
they
would
be
considered
a
third
party
advertiser
as
long
as
they
registered
with
the
clerk
and
the
billboard
or
the
advertisement
included
the
minimal
information
the
MEA
requires,
which
is
who
they
are
for
transparency
purposes
and
a
few
other
pieces
of
information.
So.
J
But
that's
not
a
no!
So
if
a
developer
just
didn't
want
to
say
I,
don't
support,
this
counts
X
because
they
they're
not
approving
my
development
they're,
not
likely
to
say
that
they're,
more
than
likely
to
say
don't
support,
councilor
X,
because
they
don't
like
trees
and
parks.
I
didn't
use
your
name
there.
Counselor
sorry
I
is
that
they
don't
have
to
say
the
subject
of
why
they
have
an
interest
in
in
the
they
just
can
put
whatever
they
want.
That.
J
If
someone
someone
could,
is
there
anyone
fact-checking
the
signs,
you
dilaudid
a
lot
of
reporting
on
fake
news
these
days.
So
if
someone,
if
someone
was
to
put
up
a
sign
that
says,
councillor,
acts
voted
this
way
on
an
issue,
but
in
fact
councillor
acts
voted
the
opposite
way.
Is
there
anyone
checking
that
through.
T
T
J
J
T
So,
in
the
example
of
a
billboard
that
particular
third-party
advertisement
would
be
the
purview
of
the
musical
licensing
standards
division,
so
I'm
not
sure
what
their
service
levels
are.
If
it
was
a
different
kind
of
advertisement,
if
they
registered
with
the
clerk,
then
that
information
should
be
available
fairly
quickly.
T
T
I
I
T
I
P
Couser,
if
I
can
excuse
I'm
gonna
hold
your
time
I'm.
Having
a
really
hard
time
hearing
you
so
I'm,
guessing
staff
probably
are
as
well
I
gonna
have
quiet
in
the
council
amber
for
the
questioner
to
be
able
to
hear
the
staff,
and
vice
versa,
counselors
tells
her
perks,
Burnside
Davis.
Can
we
voices
down?
Thank
you
so.
I
T
I
I
T
T
T
I
None
of
this
counts
towards
someone's
limits.
So
again,
if
you
had
a
group
of
developers
or
land
speculators
who
each
wanted
to
put
it
put,
our
unions
put
a
group
together
that
would
act
as
a
third
party
ad
third
party
advertiser.
They
could
theoretically
do
five
of
those
at
whatever
the
limit
is
and
there's
no
restriction
on
that.
T
L
T
L
L
So
by
the
sounds
of
things
and
I'm
going
to
get
to
the
signs
in
a
second,
this
is
generally
an
enhancement
in
terms
of
clarity
for
the
public,
because
at
least
now,
with
the
changes
in
the
legislation,
one
may
identify
who
is
working
the
campaign
and
there's
some
traceability
because
of
the
requirement
to
register.
Is
that
correct?
That's.
L
L
L
J
J
L
Now,
let's,
let's
go
back
to
during
the
last
election
period,
if
a
group,
a
third
party
and
entity,
decided
to
create
a
sign
campaign
that
either
supported
or
did
not
support
a
particular
candidate
or
a
question
that
may
have
been
on
the
ballot
were
they
allowed
to
do
so?
Are
they
allowed
to
augment
what
was
going
on
in
the
area
with
their
own
sign
campaign?
Yes,.
L
J
That's
correct,
counselor
that
were
also
additional
amendments
to
chapter
693,
to
clarify
the
role
of
third
party
advertisers
in
the
regulations
for
election
signs.
That
I
think
strengthens
the
accountability
on
the
election
science
framework,
and
then
there
are
additional
requirements
now
under
the
Municipal
Elections
Act
as
well
are.
L
T
C
Thank
you.
A
madam
Deputy
Speaker
I'm,
just
gonna
react
a
couple
of
the
questions
that
I
asked
in
committee
because
they
want
my
other
colleagues
to
hear
the
answers.
But
when
it
came
to
the
banning
of
corporate
donations
for
municipal
elections,
Toronto
was
was
the
leader
in
that
area?
Was
one
of
the
leading
municipalities
to
forbid
corporate
donations
and
in,
in
essence,
opt
out
of
various
options
of
the
Municipal
Elections
Act.
T
C
C
C
T
So,
when
council
considered
a
report
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago
on
ville
68,
which
were
amendments
to
the
city
of
toronto
act
council
at
that
time,
did
ask
the
city
manager
to
request
the
province
of
Ontario
to
delete
the
third
party
advertising
framework
from
bill.
68.
The
city
manager
wrote
a
letter
to
that
effect
to
the
province
and
in
fact,
counselor
Deanna
was
councilors
representative
at
Standing
Committee
and
included
that
request
in
his
speaking
notes
when
he
de
pute
idatz,
Standing
Committee
and
the
Standing
Committee
chose
not
to
do
so.
C
T
T
J
You
know,
obviously,
it's
difficult
to
speculate
as
to
how
these
provisions
could
be
enforced,
but
I
will
say
that
the
Act
does
have
enforcement
provisions
that
entitle
any
elector
to
seek
penalties
imposed
through
a
prosecution.
There
are
also
opportunities
for
individuals
to
make
complaints
to
have
the
matters
reviewed,
the
advertisements
potentially
removed.
If
that's
part
of
the
issue.
S
T
T
Is
silent
on
group,
so
my
my
interpretation
of
that
is
that
groups
would
not
be
allowed
that
the
intent
of
the
regulatory
framework
is
transparency.
So
if
you've
got
an
advertisement,
it
is
required
now
that
they
need
to
say
who
the
third
party
advertiser
is
and
who's
funding
it.
And
if
it's
a
group,
it
might
get
very
difficult
to
put
all
that
information
on
one
side
or
advertisement.
So.
T
S
And
then
going
back
to
somebody
that
has
to
register
individuals,
corporations
unions
that
have
to
register
so
there's
a
$1,200
individual
limit,
and
they
can.
They
have
a
maximum
of
$5,000
that
they
can
donate
to
any
third
party
advertisers.
But
you
could
have
a
company
on
any
company
that
has
15
executives
and
they
can
all
individually
donate
$1,200
to
a
third
party
advertiser.
There's
no
cap.
T
S
T
T
Province
hasn't
given
us
anything
more
definitive
than
that
we're
waiting
for
regulations
on
a
number
of
items
and
the
MEA.
Our
hope
is
that
we
were
going
to
get
them
in
the
fall.
I
think
it
could
be
closer
to
the
spring
for
some
of
them,
which
makes
it
difficult
for
us
to
implement
some
of
them
in
time
for
2018,
okay,.
S
T
S
T
They
wouldn't
be
able
to
advertise
until
they
register
with
the
clerk
and
I'm,
not
quite
clear
why
they
made
April
1st
the
date
for
third
party
advertising,
because
May
1st
is
the
campaign
period
and
the
registration
date
I'm,
assuming
that
they
gave
them
one
month
potentially
to
get
themselves
organized
before
they
register
with
the
clerk
and
then
start
advertising.
Ok,.
S
And
then
so
what
commonly
happens
in
the
States
and
I'm
also
unclear
about
this
is
so
if
I
have,
if
there's
a
third
party
advertiser
in
my
ward,
how
how
far
back
does
it
get
tracked?
So
you
have
a
group
of
you
have
a
corporation,
a
bunch
of
individuals.
There
are
executives
all
give
money
to
a
third
party
advertising
and
a
given
Ward.
S
How
far
back
does
it
get
followed
in
terms
of
ownership,
because,
what's
hot,
what
happens
commonly
in
the
states,
as
you
have
a
large
corporation
that
donates
to
a
third
party
to
another
company
that
it
trickles
down?
How
far
back
do
we
follow
that?
Does
it
get
followed
any
further
than
who
registers.
T
G
O
O
O
O
So
so
those
two
rules
did
exist:
they
couldn't
just
throw
up
signs
anywhere
and
they
couldn't
coordinate
with
campaign
candidates.
Okay,
so
there
were
some
rules
around
this
before
now.
Moving
forward,
first
of
all,
there's
a
principle
in
Canadian
law
that
was
established
in
a
case
Hudson
V
spray
tech
which
allowed
municipalities.
O
O
O
O
Could
we
require
an
affidavit
that
says
you
know
I,
the
Friends
of
Georgio
mammal
IDI
have
not
received
any
direction
or
had
any
communication
about
the
contents
of
my
materials,
the
placement
of
my
of
these
materials,
which
is
a
requirement
in
the
provincial
Act.
We
could
require
an
affidavit
like
that.
Couldn't
wait.
J
D
We've
looked
pretty
yet
pretty
closely
at
the
options
here
and
it's
our
view
that
any
further
regulation
would
either
be
seen
as
a
frustration
of
the
purpose
of
the
provincial
regime
or
would
run
contrary
to
or
obviously
I'm
speaking
in
the
abstract.
But
we
would
have
some
freedom
of
expression
concerns
right.
O
But
if
we're
specifically
doing
something
to
attempt
to
add
to
the
regulatory
clarity
around
something
in
the
legislation,
which
is
that
the
candidate
cannot
direct
the
third
party
simply
requiring
some
to
sign
a
piece
of
paper.
Saying
they've
done
that
doesn't
frustrate
anything
in
the
legislation.
O
That
leads
me
to
my
next
question:
I
assume
that
some
city
staff
are
in
conversation
with
the
provincial
government,
probably
at
a
minimum
saying:
would
you
hurry
up,
but
also
trying
to
get
some
too
that
make
it
clear
and
easy?
Could
we
bring
things
like?
We
would
like
it
to
be
similar
to
our
requirement
that
there
not
be
corporate
or
Union
money
that
we
would
like
there
to
be
clearer
tools
about
the
relationship
between
these?
Can
these
these
people
and
candidates
we're
still
in
a
position
where
we
can
say
those
things
to
them?
A
I
I
T
I
T
I
T
I
I
T
I
D
J
Again,
the
Municipal
Elections
Act
does
enable
the
city
to
require
those
advertisements
to
be
removed,
so
non-compliant
advertisements
and
an
advertisement
put
up
by
an
unregistered
third-party
advertiser
would
be
non-compliant.
The
subject
of
the
report
is
to
seek
a
process
to
enable
some
enforcement
of
those
types
of
provisions
and,
of
course,
violations
of
the
Act
also
come
with
penalties
and
fines.
T
T
D
T
D
T
G
K
D
For
the
purpose
of
responding
to
your
question,
counselor
I
can
confirm
that
there
was
third
party
advertising
last
election.
That
was
the
first
time
in
my
recollection
that
we
did
get
some
complaints
about
third
party
advertising.
I
I
want
you
to
comment
on
how
effective
it
was
this,
this
enforcement
mechanism,
what
happened.
D
I,
actually,
don't
recall
how
everything
played
out,
but
I
think
I
can
say
that
it
was
not
particularly
effective,
not
particularly
effective,
right
yeah.
So
we
have
people
floating
floating
our
our
laws.
We
have
at
least
one
candidate
that
can
put
up
what
was
it
10
billboards
in
one
little
war?
That's
not
the
point.
The
point
is
our
enforcement
mechanisms.
It's
open
season,
but
I'm
asking
questions.
Okay,
so
the
promotion
of
a
candidate
can
be
totally
overshadowed
now
by
a
corporation
or
even
an
individual
that
can
purchase
with
purchase
power.
T
That
is
correct
councilor.
This
was
not
a
request
that
came
from
staff
or
City
Council
and,
in
fact
was
not
something
we
were
aware
of
until
they
included
in
the
mea.
The
province
does
have
a
similar
regime
in
place.
Oh
so
I'm,
assuming
they
kind
of
decided
that
it
was
time
for
Toronto
and
other
municipalities
to
have
the
same
thing
so.
D
H
H
H
I
understand,
except
for
the
can't
know
it
everybody
can
so
I
guess
what
I'm
gonna
ask
now
is:
should
there
be
signs
go
and
it's
got
to
do
with
this?
There
is
somebody
who
signs
up
that
have
nothing
on
them.
Your
response
will
be
to
take
them
down
immediately,
say:
there's
the
anybody
but
Burnside,
but
there's
no
identification
on
it.
That
sign
would
now
be
illegal,
correct.
H
I
work
some
MLS
stuff
because
I'm
assuming
and
I'm
gonna
ask
this
to
my
team
at
the
back.
I'm
assuming
you've
had
these
conversations
with
MLS
and
they
have
now
built
their
budget
for
2018.
With
this
in
mind,
extra
enforcement.
Am
I
correct
or
not
correct,
that
you've
had
these
conversations
so
through
you,
meadow
no
I'm
talking
here.
First
Oh
am
I
correct
or
not
correct
that
you've
had
these
conversations
with
MLS
you're.
H
T
H
Can
ask
for
that
back
we're
also
in
the
budget
discussions
right
now
so
I'm
interested
in
how
many
new
staff
will
be
hired
for
the
election
period
expressly
to
deal
with
the
plethora
of
third
party
signs,
removing
them
enforcing
the
issues?
How
many
have
you,
how
many
have
you
now
put
in
miss
cook
for
your
budgets
through.
P
H
25
days,
when
tell
me
the
date
that
the
third-party
advertisers
can
start
with
their
signs,
may
the
first
so
may.
The
first
is
when
they
can
put
up
the
anybody,
but
Burnside
sign
sorry
I'm
using
you
councillor
and
councillors
can
put
up
their
launch
signs
on
what
day?
What
day
the
councillors
now
I
put
up
their
signs
in
the
upcoming
election
signs
the
same
day
May
the
1st
May,
the
1st.
No.
H
H
Okay,
and
the
last
thing
that
I
want
to
know
is
if
someone
as
happens
regularly,
has
come
down,
they
filled
out
a
form,
they've
put
down
their
phone
number
and
then,
when
councillor
Burnside
phones
in
and
says
here's
who's
in
charge.
Now
we
have
somebody
who's,
actually
not
existent
or
someone
whose
phone
isn't
working
anymore
or
someone
who's
just
creating
some
trouble
for
that
candidate.
H
P
E
H
Think
people
don't
understand
somebody's
going
to
come
down.
They're
gonna
put
in
their
name
they're,
going
to
put
in
their
phone
number
they're
going
to
give
identification
they're
going
to
print
a
million
signs,
they're
going
to
put
them
all
up
and
that
person
isn't
going
to
exist
in
order
to
if
something
is
on
there.
That's
wrong.
If
there's
a
problem
with
that
that
there's
not
going
to
be
a
real
person
any
longer
to
deal
with
so
I'm
interested
in
how
you're
planning
to
deal
with
that
and
those
5,000
signs.
Okay,.
P
P
P
P
And
I
just
wanted
to
be
clear
on
that,
and
the
other
thing
I
wanted
to
be
clear
on
is
is
what
in
fact
we're
in
this
interim
period,
where
we're
the
really
the
province
hasn't
finished
the
steps,
because
they
haven't
yet
told
us
what
the
spending
limits
are
for
the
third-party
registrant
and
they
haven't.
They
haven't
shown
us
the
form
so
which
will
tell
us
a
lot
about
what
their
their
accountability
expectations
are
in
this
interim
period
have
had.
They
welcomed
municipalities
telling
them
what
they
hope
to
see
in
those
final
strokes.
P
T
Through
the
speaker,
we
have
had
some
conversations
with
the
province
and
we
have
communicated
some
information.
We
would
like
to
see
in
the
forms
that
we're
expecting
shortly
and
we've
certainly
been
advocating
for
a
sooner
timeline
than
the
spring
for
Toronto.
We
have
a
software
system
that
we
need
to
update,
and
that
takes
some
time
and
energy
to
do
so.
We
need
the
form
and
the
information
to
do
it.
P
P
P
And
and
lastly,
I
just
wanted
to
dress
and
funnily
enough
he's
now
sitting
beside
me,
pastor,
Dee
Tiano
was
asking
earlier
both
the
idea
of
just
closing
in
real
time
the
the
expenditures
of
the
third
party
once
they
register.
We
want
that.
We
want
to
know
who
they
are
in
real
time,
so
so
we
can.
We
can
set
up
a
web
page
where
that
that
information
will
be
the
closed.
Just
closed
pre
Election,
Day.
T
K
P
T
P
T
The
the
MEA
is
clear
that
it
is
individuals,
corporations
and
trade
unions
that
are
allowed
to
register
as
third
parties.
So
you
know
I,
don't
think
that
they
would
need
to
have
multiple
names
involved
in
that
registration
process.
If
it's
a
corporation
or
a
trade
union,
they
need
to
have
a
representative
of
those
organizations.
Okay,.
P
I
have
one
more
question
because
it
said
to
get
to
their
contributions.
We
have
to
get
to
that
point
where
we've
got
audited
statements,
and
the
same
is
true
of
disclosing
our
own
direct
donations
to
to
to
us
as
politicians
and
candidates,
we
don't
get,
we
don't
get
get
the
donors
disclose
until
after
the
election,
because
they're
not
really
confirmed
as
having
donated
until
you've
seen
an
audited
statement.
P
P
Thing
stopping
us
from
from
mirroring
what
happens
in
New,
York,
City
and
other
cities.
Disclosing
real
time
is
that
we
actually
don't
dedicate
the
resources.
We
have
never
made
the
decision
to
do
pre
election
day
audits
so
that
that
so
that
that
information
can
be
disclosed,
I,
see,
I,
see
I'm,
making
people
uncomfortable
I,
see
a
head
shaking,
but
so
I
think
you
might
like
the
tail
end
of
my
question
and
the
only
reason
we
don't
do
that
right
now
is
because
it's
not
really
contemplated
in
the
act
here
in
Ontario.
Is
that
the
case?
P
G
Correct:
that's
not
the
regime
that
the
Act
contains.
The
Act
sets
out
certain
dates
by
which
the
forms
the
contribution
forms
must
be
filed
and
we
have
no
ability
to
demand
that
they
be
filed
prior
to
that
time.
Okay,
thank
you,
councillor,
McMahon.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
just
basically
have
one
question
so.
G
So
candidates,
to
my
knowledge,
candidates
can,
if
they
run
a
business
advertise
their
business
with
their
big
mug,
shot
on
a
billboard
elsewhere
for
for
real
estate.
In
my
case,
in
my
ward
for
real
estate
on
a
billboard,
so
they're
able
to
do
that
as
a
candidate,
you
can
advertise
your
business
during
an
election
period
once
you
registered
or
before
you've
registered
or
cheering
after
there.
G
So
feasibly
as
a
candidate,
you
could
have
your
signs
up
now
for
the
election
for
your
business
advertising
yourself
and
your
business.
Then
you
can
have
signs
up
in
May,
beginning
of
May
from
a
third
party,
and
then
you
can
have
your
own
signs
up.
25
days,
sorry
counselor
Grimes,
and
then
you
can
have
your
own
signs
up
25
days
before
the
election.
So.
G
But
it's
as
you
would
agree
that
it's
advertising
yourself
getting
your
name
and
your
face
out
there.
So
then
say
they
didn't.
They
declare
me
first
and
they're,
a
third
party
someone's
advertising
themselves
and
they
still
have.
They
could
still
have
their
business
signs
up
right,
so
they
really
physically.
You
could
have
three
different
sets
of
signs
that
would
be
allowed
up
so
that
the
candidates
so.
T
Just
to
clarify
your
question:
counselor
candidates
can't
direct
third
party
advertising
signage
and
you
can't
really
contribute
or
direct
that.
So,
whether
or
not
someone
is
going
to
put
a
third
party
ad
up,
promoting
or
supporting
a
candidate,
the
candidate
really
has
no
control
over
that.
Theoretically,
under
the
MEA.
G
C
You
thank
you,
madam
Speaker
I,
have
a
motion
and
was
similar
to
what
was
moved
in
Executive
Committee,
but
it
didn't
carry
the
City
Council
requests
the
province
of
Ontario
to
provide
an
opt-out
provision
for
municipalities
from
third
party
advertising
provisions
in
the
admissible
Elections,
Act
and
I
mention
all
Mississippi.
Miss
apologies
here,
rather
than
specifically
the
City
of
Toronto,
because
they
didn't
want
the
province
to
think
that
this
is
over.
C
This
is
Toronto
again
looking
for
special
status,
I
mean
you've,
heard
the
questions,
and
you
heard
the
debate
in
Executive
Committee,
and
there
is
no
doubt
that
there's
deep
concern
about
the
provisions
of
the
legislation
for
third
party
advertising.
This
is
a
bad
idea.
This
is
a
terrible
idea
and
if
anyone's
watches
elections
to
our
republic
in
our
republic
to
the
south,
they
know
that
this
leads
to
super
PACs,
dark
money,
corruption
and
widespread
manipulation
of
the
electoral
process.
C
Moreover,
we
don't
have
the
resources
at
the
City
of
Toronto
to
enforce
the
various
provisions,
the
other
of
the
proposed
Municipal
Elections
Act.
We
would
have
dozens
of
staff
to
make
sure
that
these
third-party
advertisers
are
following
the
rules
that
they're
playing
fair
and
that
and
that
the
result
of
which
could
be
years
of
litigation
tying
up.
The
court
system
tying
up
the
compliance
audit
system
and,
of
course,
draining
could
be
potentially
draining
the
the
accounts
of
various
candidates
as
the
litigation
continues.
C
This
would
lead
to
a
financial,
Wild,
West
campaign
chaos
and
the
extensive
litigation
that
I've
already
described.
So
when
it
comes
to
bad
ideas,
this
is
a
bad
idea.
Our
electoral
system
is
not
perfect,
but
you
know
what
I've
bought
three
elections
under
the
municipal
elections
Act
with
the
first
of
the
school
board
and
then
two
times
this
councillor,
it's
it's
as
I
said
it's
not
perfect,
but
it's,
but
it's
pretty
clean
from
from
a
candidates.
C
Point
of
view
from
an
opponent's
point
of
view
and
to
add
this
into
it
would
just
make
a
complete
financial
mess
of
it.
It
would
corrupt
it,
it
would
it
would
darken
it
and
it
would
lead
us
down
a
road
which
we
would
all
regret.
So
I
think
it's
important.
That
council
support
a
motion
to
send
a
strong
message
to
the
province
that
these
provisions
should
be
optional,
that
municipal
councils
across
the
province
should
be
passing
motions
to
opt
out
if
they
so
wish.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.