Toronto City Council Executive Committee, 26 Sep 2017

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From YouTube: Executive Committee - September 26, 2017 - Part 1 of 3

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Executive Committee, meeting 27, September 26, 2017 - Part 1 of 3
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=11829
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQYZkCjcfZk#t=9m31s
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW9ZNqQnb20

Meeting Navigation:
0:08:01 - Call to order

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With the members of the executive committee, please come to committee room, one for quorum.

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C

Good morning, colleagues and ladies and gentlemen, I want to welcome everybody to the 27th meeting of the executive committee and begin by acknowledging that we're meeting today on the traditional territories of the Mississauga's of the new credit first nation, the HOD nashoni the here on when debt and home to many diverse indigenous peoples.

C

I will remind people who are not in this room or even those who are that we can be watched outside of being in this room on YouTube at Toronto, City, Council, live or follow the meeting on your computer tablet or smartphone at wwr CA, slash council. Are there any declarations of interest under the municipal conflict, conflict of interest act? And if so, please indicate the item number and the nature of the interest.

C

Counselor pastor. Thank.

D

You mr. Barron and bunting some caution I'd like to declare an interest on item 12 item 10 within item 12. We could pull that out on a separate vote: Toronto Public Library as although on medical leave, my wife is still technically an employee of the Toronto Public Library, so I think with the clerk's consent. I think. If we pull out a number item, 12:10 on item 12, I, think that will do it and item 27 capital plan Toronto, Public Library as well. Thanks.

C

Councillor Pasternak any other decorations out of the municipal conflict ministry. Okay, may I have a motion please to confirm the minutes of the executive committee meeting of June 19th 2017 moved by councillor Thompson councillor McMahon, all those in favor opposed carry. So let's proceed with a review of the agenda and if you want to hold an item, please state your name. As you know, in the usual manner and I will go from there.

C

Toronto Hydro Corporation annual general meeting and audited financial statements, number 27, X 27 point 1 I would like to hold it hold by councillor shiner.

C

But a seven point: two donation of smart thermostats for Tron community housing motion to approve the item: motion moved by Councillor Thompson councillor McMahon. All those in favor opposed carry 27.3. We are holding for deputations 27.4 holding for deputations 27.5 holding for deputations 27.6. I would like to hold that if I could that's the adjustment to to affordable housing loans to the W YWCA of Greater Toronto 27.7, a National Exhibition Association CNE, a permit for West channel water shows alt held by councillor.

C

Thompson 27.8 is a ravine strategy of being held for deputations, 27.9 regularize regularizing toronto for all public education initiative to support Civic resiliency being held for deputations 27 point 10 update on smart cities being held for a presentation, 27 point: 11 commuter parking options, Toronto York Spadina, subway extension held by councillor Pasternak 27 point 12, a citywide real estate, delegated authorities, framework and transition plan.

E

Meritorious a hold up recently.

C

Being held by councillor Shriner 27 point 13, confirmation of sustainable energy plan financing, interest rate policy may I, have a motion from councilor Aames Lee seconded by councillor McMahon. All those in favor opposed carried 2714 and 14:8, creating 298, affordable rental homes in Toronto results of the 2017 open door call for applications. You want to move it or hold it move it moved by councillor Barlow second to the councillor to Georgia.

C

All those in favor opposed carried 20 point: 15 is being held for deputations, creating 600, affordable rental homes at West, Don lands and 27 Grosvenor 26 Granville sites, 27:16 open-door, affordable housing program, 2016 annual activity report recommendation the report be received, moved by Councillor viola, counselor shiner, all those in favor compose carried 20 7.17 authority to take part in the provinces home for good program. 90 million dollars allocated to Toronto motion to to see authorize the staff to move with that counselor shiner moves it councillor, Barlow.

C

All those in favor opposed carry 27:18 capital variance report for the six month period ended June, 30th, 2017, moved by councillor. Crawford second is counselor to George. Oh all, those in favor opposed Carrie 27:19 operating variance report for six month period, ended June, 30th, 2017, moved by Councillor Crawford councillor to George OH, all those in favor opposed to Carrie, 27:20 capital budget, reallocation, request, Toronto, Fire, Services data architecture and data integration, modernization strategy. This is coming from the Budget Committee.

C

It's like to hold that please, okay, held by councillor Ainsley 2721 tree protection enforcement again coming from the budget committee to move the adoption of the recommendation. Second of councillor McMahon. All those in favor opposed carried 27:22 adjustments and deferrals accelerations to the park, forestry and recreation 2017 capital budget in 28:26 capital plan, and this is coming from the Budget Committee as their motion from Council to Crawford, to accept the recommendations from the budget committee.

C

Second, counselor McMahon again, all those in favor opposed carried 2017 27:23 toronto, water 2017 capital budget in 2018, 2026 capital plan adjustments again coming from the Budget Committee moved by councillor Crawford hold councillor Ainsley 27:23, 27:24 I will hold that if I may, that's the adjustment to the 2017 2026 capital budget and plan for King Liberty, pedestrian bridge 27:25 transportation services, 2017 capital budget of Justin's, coming from the Budget Committee moved by councillor Crawford, the second counselor to Georgia. All those in favor opposed Carrie.

C

27:26 facilities, capital, 20, 18, 26 capital plan adjustments and accelerations and deferrals September coming from the budget committee, moved by Councillor Crawford councilman Giorgio, all those in favor opposed carried Thank You counselor that this is a matter in which we have none of the ones up to date, we're one of the ones you mentioned counselor this so we're just the first one now correct it counts, they're, passionate, so he'll step out, and it's 27 point two: seven Toronto Public Library 2017 capital budget adjustments.

C

Second quarter coming from the Budget Committee moved by councillor Crawford to Kasserine, see all those in favor opposed carried 27 point 28 official plan amendment status of City subcommittee actions: this is recommendation coming forward from the Board of Governors of Exhibition. Place can I hold it up. Please ought to hold that constant, okay held by councillor Ainsley on 27 point 29. Unless there's anybody wants to hold it.

C

I do have a motion which is simply housekeeping in that you'll see the recommendation, requests the city manager to prepare, prepare a preliminary report for the September 5th 2017 meeting, and in fact, that meeting has already been held. So we would simply change and I think the motion can be up there to change it to the November 10th 2017 budget committee, showing the immediate budgetary impacts and so on of the provincial minimum wage.

C

So it'll just has that report presented to the next meeting is if people are content, we can then move the item forward on that basis with the amendment. So the motion as amended counselor pastor, not councillor Shriner, all those in favor opposed Carrie, 20 7.30 is being held for deputations.

C

That's the motion to do with the Toronto Police Service, the the next one is 27.3 one for the direction of the city manager on the study of the commuter parking crisis in Toronto, and that do you want the one to do with the Wilson with the Spadina subway yeah. We talked about that in the east, half run off a little deal with those in some way together and then. Finally, we have the the Sherman campus request for relief on development charges and moved by Councillor Pasternak seconded by Councillor to George you all.

C

Those in favor opposed carry so.

C

That brings us to back to item one and it was being held by councilor. Shiner I believe. Is that correct? Yes, so did you have? Were there any members of name? Oh I see okay, I hadn't anticipated necessarily. Did you want a presentation, counsel, China or the members of the committee? No no they're I think they're from hydro correct to present the report. No.

B

That's that's not correct we're just here Dan, to respond to anything.

C

Oh I, okay, fine, that's great super, so I was just gonna move then to questions of staff, but see if there any members of the, not members of the executive committee, members of council who wanted to start asking any questions of staff on this report all right. Seeing none I'll move then to members of the committee and I had up first councillor shiner and who else is lining up on this? We'll start with you. Then councillor shiner, Oh.

E

Mayor for you, Mara Tory I think it was councillor Matt and Wang and moved a motion at Council that put a maximum of 25 percent on performance bonuses. That's that any of our agencies or corporations should earn. So. My question is: why is that not happening at hydro.

B

Thank You councillor, it is actually a report that the board was instructed last AGM and we're taking that very seriously and working hard to respond by the end of the year as directed and I'm not pretty to the boards.

B

The outcome of that study, but in that I understand they're following the requirements of the motion and that they will be responding for the executive in November.

E

When was the HTM I'm, sorry, when was the AGM last year's AGM and the motion in strangeness was it: when was he last year's AGM? When was it held the day to his help July of what year 2016, okay, so we're into September of 2017?

E

Why does it take a year-and-a-half to get that answer in front of the board? The.

B

Study actually has fairly detailed and requires comparators and other details that are not necessarily disclosed in a public domain. So, ultimately, you have to get analysis and research that supports that evidence, and that takes time or it was a lag of trying to get the updated information. So by this year we will have very accurate information to show the comparators.

E

And the information that you need to know: what's the study, are you conducting I'm kind of lost here this.

B

The study has directed by the motion that you raised last year at.

E

The AGM so I didn't raise any motion. Then, can you tell me the study, that's ongoing and what the parameters of the study are and can we actually get a copy of what the parameters of the study are well.

B

The motion actually outlined what we required as information to come back through a report which is will be channeled through the city manager's office in November. So I'm, not I, can't recall all of the details, but I understand very clearly by the board that they are satisfying all of this information that you request and that will be delivered.

E

As a report to Council I'm not trying to go in circles, Chris and I, we've worked together for a long time. Is a study being done where I hired someone to do that correct? Can we get a copy of what the requirements are of the study? The.

B

Requirements of.

E

The study are the motion, then, that you gave instructions to someone and hired them to do something. Can we get a copy of what they were hired to I'd.

B

Have to take that back to the board, because that's a board issue! You actually instructed the board to to do this study. So, ultimately, the board's responsibility in scope that they put in for the study is ultimately their.

E

Decisions so through you meritorious city manager, we have an agency, that's doing a study, there's nothing confidential about the names of those that might be in the study. It's simply getting information which the board will consider. Sorry. Can I tonight talk over here without yelling, but I'm not prepared to do that today. I simply want to know, what's being studied, that was asked for a year and a half before we get it so I know the information that is being looked at. So if there's any questions, I could deal with that in advance.

E

Can you get that for me? I can? Can you get it for me when it comes to Council? Yes,.

F

And and what I will do is I will take from this a sense of the concern that you've raised counselor that there is a significant time lag between the AGM between the council request, the AGM of 2016, the current report, and then the final report and I will indicate to to management at the at Toronto Hydro Corporation that it would be appropriate in given the long lag and other factors to allow counselors who are interested to understand the terms of reference. With respect to the work under being taken for the consultant study and.

E

When did we, the Toronto Hydro dealt with it after 2016 8 GM? That.

F

Was the answer provided? Yes,.

E

When did counsel ask for that in that work to be done, my.

F

Understanding is that was a July 2016 motion from councilor min and Wang I'm doing that from memory, though.

E

C

Thank You councillor shiner. Are there any other questions of staff, counselor Thompson, so.

G

Just so that I'm clear through to you, the city manager, through you, mr.mayor emotion, was passed by the deputy mayor. Is that correct motion.

F

Was I believe motion was brought forward by the deputy mayor passed by Council? Yes, right.

G

So the direction would come from the motion is that correct? That is correct. There are no other directions, not.

F

As far as I am aware, based on the motion, that's.

G

Correct so if one wants to understand what the request is per the motion, one needs to have a copy of the motion to review. Would that be correct? That would be correct right, and so the motion is sent from Council to the board of Hydro, who then directs that the study be done. That.

F

Is correct they may they may request additional information as they undertake that study. That was my next.

G

Point because that then, could then lead to more time required in order to complete the totality of what has been asked, both in conjunction with respect to that of council. By way of motion and the board itself. That.

F

Could take more time, there has already been considerable time passed right.

G

And that's to be determined based on the discussion that you will have through your office with I. Guess the board chair and not directly to the staff I.

F

Will link with both the board chair and the staff? Okay.

G

So your authority, though, is that directly to staff, since this is a entity realize that the sole shareholder is the City of Toronto, but your communications is that direct to staff or the board? What is your authority? My.

F

Authority will be to frankly to intervene on what I believe to be a common-sense basis. I believe that councillor shiner has indicated some concern that he does not have adequate information in advance of a long-standing issue. It has been concerned to him and to others on this.

F

This committee, I believe he's made, from my perspective, a relatively straightforward request: to get adequate information in advance to allow him to ask questions so he's not again puttin us in a situation of not being able to appropriate questions, appropriate view and and questions to staff and others in advance of the meeting right.

G

What I wanted to drive at mr. city manager through you, mr. mayor, is that we were not actually asking an improper ask through you to the board, and just now is that correct that.

F

Is correct, I believe I believe that that, as the shareholder Council should be able to request and receive information, and this is is with respect and care. A long-standing issue and I am not troubled by any requests. I, don't think it's an authority issue with any request that that we provide counselor councilors with the opportunity and information to undertake their duties. So.

G

Mr. Tyrell today is not able to answer all the question. There is nothing that would be improper in terms of him not having all the information, given the fact that perhaps his the structure in the organization is such we wouldn't necessarily having him come in here that he would know all the answers. Would you expect that I would.

F

Not expect him to have all of those answers. That's correct. Okay,.

G

Thank you thank.

C

You councillor, Thompson I, have councillor Pasternak with questions of staff. Yes,.

D

Thank you. Mr. mayor on on page seven of the report before us. It states that on December, 31st 2016 trying to hydros debentures were rated a by Standard & Poor's with a negative outlook, and that apparently was restored only when the city put in 250 million dollars in an equity contribution. Would you consider that move a bailout.

B

No, it's just correcting the balance sheet to be within the deemed ratio of the Ontario Energy Board. It was a necessary one-time equity injection to do so and to restore our credit rating and.

D

You feel Toronto Hydro can meet all of its obligations to its various debenture and bond holders and absolutely their debtors. Will you be coming back to the city for more? No, not in.

B

Not foreseeable future, thank you thanks.

C

Counselor Pasternak any other questions of staff. All right, then we can move to speakers if there are any that want to speak on this I see none. You know.

E

You're welcome to mayor, if you have some better.

C

Kua I was only gonna say that I think it's kind of been alluded to in a very polite manner by the city manager, and your questions were designed to elicit the same thing that you know I hope we can do better with respect to the responsiveness of any agency or corporation in which we are either the only or significant shareholder.

C

With respect to this kind of information, but I do understand, there was an external study that was conducted to help provide complete information, but now that we'll have it on a timely basis going forward from now exactly as the city manager said, so that all of us can formulate our opinions and questions.

C

We have a boat that study, yes, so that we're not receiving it at the last minute and I think the fact that it's being discussed today I, don't really think we need any motions or anything because it's coming forward as a separate report responsive to the city motion, you know is a good thing so that you're on notice, if I, could put it that way, I don't want it to sound, unduly provocative but you're on notice that we want it.

C

We want it on a timely basis so that we have time to take a look at it and hopefully it will be complete in the context of the direction that came from the City Council, representing the sole shareholder. Thank you. That's all I have to say: I will support the receipt of the report. Councillor shiner so.

E

I I will comment on it and maybe it's.

E

You know I, don't like it when things aren't said and I think it's appropriate to say what you're thinking. So the first thing is: Chris I'm.

E

Sorry, you had to be here today because I've always seen our agencies, boards and commissions, sensing, chair and or sand the president CEO and you're, not that your I respect you very much and all the work that you've done on hydro and the work we've done here, but I don't think it's appropriate that you're here I think that the president CEO should have been here himself to answer the question that council has been asking for a long time and the question is: why are the bonuses for the senior executive?

E

Almost a hundred percent and some of the others? 60 percent release a 25 percent, and where does that come from, in particular in a year where you had to get a cash injection? And you had to get the council to sharp your credit rating and most of all is that the right way that our agencies and boards should be running because I, don't think members of council feel that way and I.

E

Don't think the public feels that way, but if it's justified, if it's justified now that information should be in front of us, so we can see it and accept it, and the fact that the review hasn't been done, that the information hasn't here that's a year and a half before your board even gets it.

E

You know, what's up, you wanted that it's not a cooperative with us and we're not able to do our job right and that's really what I want to see and and not put any and not make it look as if it's wrong. But if you don't answer me, it certainly doesn't appear as if it's right and that's been my attitude and Tamara seen it ever since he's joined Azir.

E

My colleagues counsel, there's a question answer the question: if it's right, you think it's right stand behind it, but not answering not coming forth with information that we can look at in determining.

E

Doesn't let us, as a council, follow through on our due diligence to the taxpayers of the City of Toronto, so I'm extremely disappointed in the way this has gone forward for a year and a half and I really want and hope that the city manager can help bring this information to us, and we can conclude this, so it doesn't keep going on and on and on and most of all that the board and the staff at hydro respect the wish of counsel through councillor men of long's motion.

E

As far as what the maximum performance bonus you should be and we can get on with our lives, because this has been here for far too long and going around and far too many circles. And it's just not right. In my opinion,.

C

Thank You councillor Turner deputy mayor Bennett, Wong.

H

Yeah, thank you very much. So I just want to create some context to this report in front of us. This is related to the Toronto Hydro Corporation audited financials. So this is just you know, multi-billion dollar company very, very small, little thing that counts or Shriners identified.

H

We have been dealing with this at the board and just you know the idea that you know that hydro has been somewhat slow or they've been like laggards and providing this information. There's also some context here, because I remember, moving the motion and I do understand. I sit on the board of Hydra, but I also said a number of other boards they're, not the only ones.

H

I, don't believe that Toronto parking authority was on time with theirs I, don't believe I, don't believe Bill Toronto submitted I did I, don't know if they submitted theirs on time or not. So so you know just to go after one agency here today for being slow. Is you know, I I think there has to be a certain level of context to it. I've seen the report because I'm on the board there's been a vigorous debate. There are certain consequences to what council is asking for: I'm, not sure that we actually said. Let's do this.

H

It was like we'd like to see if you could put some framework a framework around executive compensation that was born keeping what we do here at the city, but there are consequences, I suspect when, when when the report does come forward, my understanding is coming for in November we actually might even have to go on camera, because when you actually put when you're putting some salary constraints, there are certain labor relations issues that flow from that and certain consequences that are going to resolve.

H

That council is going to have to know about so so look it I mean hydro. Salaries are very generous. Some of the salaries are well, they they are the highest in any organization here at the city or any other agency border Commission. You know the you know. We have our first employee that makes over a million dollars and that's certainly it's going to attract attention. So, let's wait and see when we get this report come forward and, let's and I quite frankly, I would look.

H

I have made my Pete my views, known inside the board on the board of Toronto Hydro. Let's have a vigorous discussion when when it comes forward and not jump to any conclusions before we see the information.

C

Thanks councilman, among any other speakers, all right, then I, don't think in the context of the discussion, because there's another report coming forward, there's any nobody moved in emotions, so I think we can just.

C

Proceed with looking here there, it is the recommendations adopts the recommendations of the Toronto Hydro report, received the Toronto and we're forward and various things, as you can see, directs that certain attachments be kept confidential. Really that's the gist of it. So can I I did may have somebody move that councillor Pasternak councillor Crawford, all those in favor opposed carry. That's one one. A the next item we have is 27.3 and on that we were holding that for deputations. We have one deput in John Holland's. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

C

Item 27.3 I did a name, it's the municipal election related matters and it speaks particularly as you know, to the contribution rebate program.

C

Good day mr. Rawlins I.

I

Get that right, yes, good day. Mr. chairman, thank.

C

You for coming and you, as you know, you have five minutes. Yes,.

I

I

My name is John Holland's I last appeared before this committee in 2015, at which time we were discussing the retrofitting of existing technology for the electoral system in Sea of Toronto, which is, in particular the tabulators and the numerous options that I believe were available to the city at that time, and within those discussions, I felt that there were some direction, the direction being. Let's go, have a look at what the marketplace has and I.

I

Think instruction was also to continue dialogue with my both myself and a chief electoral officer of Ontario I'm here today, also to ensure that the city has all of the facts as they move forward. I see that and I should confess the book myself out of speaking I was actually made aware of the report by the chief electoral officer on Friday and in our discussions. We both were surprised that we hadn't been kept in the loop over the last 12 to 18 months.

I

That's again, a reason for me to come this morning to lay out some of the facts that exist.

I

Retrofitting your 17 year old technology will come at a cost.

I

One point: five: five: zero million, as opposed to renting technology and I'll, give you two examples: in 2014, the city of Sudbury, rented tabulators at six hundred and twenty-five dollars per tabulator, which comes in under your price considerably, and the chief election officer in talking to him on Friday confirmed that he will be renting and making all of his new technology, which has just being purchased this year available to municipalities at $200 per tabulator, which brings him in at about 370 thousand, which is an approximate savings of 1.2 million dollars.

I

The City of Toronto today I urge you to defer this decision and instruct the city clerk to request a quote from interested vendors and the chief electoral officer of Ontario for the rental lease of 1850 tabulators for the City of Toronto 2018 municipal elections, the price to include the supply of the necessary hardware, software goods and services, including system integration and training, I believe that a competitive bidding process will benefit benefit the City of Toronto taxpayers and provide them with better technology at a better price.

I

Thank you. Thanks.

C

Mr. Rawlins, do we have questions of the deputy starting with members from council visiting the executive medina councillor, family.

J

What's the cost to this.

I

If I'm, following your reports, correctly you're retrofitting technology for one point, five, five, zero million, which is 17 years old and I, am suggesting that the alternative is to rent it from the province of Ontario. For three hundred and seventy thousand.

J

What's wrong with the system we have now, you.

I

Need to retrofit it, you have to go in and change your technology. You have to add modems, so you can do your results and.

J

What's the cost just to retrofit one.

I

Five: five: zero: if I read your reports correctly so.

J

So what are we leasing from the province.

I

Brand new technology that they'll be using in for their June election.

J

So it's cheaper to do that than to retrofit Oh.

I

Much cheaper, yes,.

J

And what what's the difference between the provinces? Technology in this one, that we have.

I

It's just it's certified to the latest standards. It's widely used, it's the leading edge technology.

J

And do you think the province is this game to just? Let us use it for nothing or do no.

I

They're gonna use they're going to charge you $200 per tabulator, which I believe are their costs to get it to you and get it back.

C

Good thanks thanks counselor m'lady other questions of the deputy. If there are no others, I might go sorry, counselor Frank did you have a question yeah go ahead. Yes,.

D

Just very quickly, are you aware that council has rejected the option of going to rank ballot.

I

Yes, I do yes, I am but I think all the latest technologies actually embrace that so.

D

Why would we be going to a new generation of technology for a policy we have not endorsed.

I

Does he have a million dollars we're.

D

Not we're not going ahead with rank balloting. Why would we need the the software integration for rank balloting where we're not going ahead with it? Okay,.

I

As I understand it, your technology is being retrofitted not for rank ballot, it's being retrofitted to put modems in the machines at a cost of one point: five: five: zero, so you're taking 17 year old technology, retrofitting it with a modem so that you can complete the selection in 2018 I'm, suggesting there's technology out there available to you. That already does that a much lower price.

C

Thanks counselor Pasternak I just had a couple of questions to follow on. If anyone else has any I'll start the clock there. Mr. Rollins, can you help us with any of the following, because I will follow up with our own staff on this? Obviously, first of all, there are adequate numbers of machines to meet our need on the dates in question.

C

Under this arrangement you're here, promoting the lease arrangement.

I

I understand that the province of Ontario bought 6000, tabulators, okay,.

C

Secondly, I think you made allusion to the fact they have been used, I presume in by-elections or otherwise already and so they've. This.

I

Technology is being used, yes and their first use. I, don't know if they have any by-elections, but their first use will be June with.

C

All machines- that's very interesting, so so.

I

C

Hasn't been in Ontario and I heard you say that it's been used elsewhere outside of Ontario, but it has been used in Ontario or in Canada to your knowledge. Just.

I

The technology itself has I think they might have a couple of more add-ons inside their machine for them going forward.

C

But so the answer is no, though it has been asked here in or in Canada I.

I

Believe it's been used in Canada, okay,.

C

That sort of means- you probably won't, have an answer. Maybe to this question- is there quite a bit of training that would be involved because again, I'm gonna ask our own staff. This question in the context of our election, that happens in 13 months and so you'd have to the machines will be in use in a provincial election. You said in June, yes, then we'd have to somehow between now and then train our staff.

C

Would there be training involved in the use of these by the the clerks and people who are hired on the day to run the polling stations on how to use this new machinery, because.

I

It would be new to you. There would be some training impact on the voter. You'd have exactly the same ballot, it's just if you went to this technology or even if you did a quote and got a similar technology to what you have no I think they're similar. There would be minimal training, yes and.

C

And and I presume, there's a cost to that training, as has been born. Are you aware of whether the province has put people through training and how much that might have cost, because that has to be factored in? Obviously, to your comparison, I think.

I

When you do a quote to the vendors I'm, not suggesting you take the province, I'm saying that's out there, that's a fact so that stuff's out there I'm, suggesting you design what your election is. Ask two companies to quote on it and take which one you want and I'm just suggesting your pricing will be a lot lower than what you're facing right now. So.

C

Just say: leasing these machines themselves, the province from the van door know.

I

They're buying them, we bought them and.

C

We released them from them so that if we were doing that because that's the number you brought here- 370 thousand 300 parmi 370, yes 270 thousand- that then we would have to look to them. I'm assuming for the training or to somebody I mean no.

I

I I would imagine that they would do a third-party vendor and bring them into the contract. Doing should fulfill anything that you need. Whatever your requirements are. Okay,.

C

Final question: you are you here, just in your capacity as a past chief I'm, aware of obviously the chief past chief lad, no I just concerned citizen actually just a concern, so yeah, okay. Thank you very much. Okay, thank.

I

C

We then would move to questions of staff and we have counselor ma'am aleady and counsel Cara Janice from visiting with us, so counselor ma'am. Please go ahead.

J

Wouldn't it just make sense for the city to get their own equipment and perhaps even lease it out to other municipalities if we have to make some money back, is that possible to do mr.

K

Mayor, that's exactly what we have and that's exactly what we've done with it. We had the decisions of Council in November, I believe of last year, at which time council decided that one last election we would use this equipment. It is coming to the end of its life, but I have to tell you that there are 16 applications that this system needs to fit into.

K

So there's an extensive amount of rework that would need to be done and I think it's important also to remember that the election in the province is in June of this year, which would give us exactly three months to do this work. We're.

J

Cutting it close if we, if we choose to do something with the province right far,.

K

Too close the elections need to be about integrity, not about equipment and.

J

And we have we've leased our equipment out to other municipalities in the past. Yes,.

K

We have and how.

J

Much money: how much money have we made by doing that? I.

K

Don't have that figure at hand.

K

But we've we've certainly more than recovered our cost of the equipment.

J

All right, so so it's not a ridiculous amount of money. Really, if we're going to be recovering it and we've shown that we're recovering money regularly with our own system. It's not a it's, not a ridiculous price to pay at one point: one and a half million dollars to to to boot up the system again properly and fix it up and then start making money on it again probably make our money back again. Wouldn't we well.

K

I'm, not I'm, not certain about that. I can never tell you that for certain until I get a request, but what I can tell you is that this is a is for the maintenance of the equipment, and it is not for the entire amount for this election. There is a amount of about half a million dollars which would only be paid in the event of a book election at some point or.

J

K

By elections so.

J

We really haven't had many many problems with our system that we've had over the years right I mean there's been so few glitches, but nothing, nothing crazy right. Nothing.

K

Whatsoever, that's been major. No we've had the odd issue you know with the tabulator, but nothing that is of significance.

J

And you wouldn't anticipate that that would change if we did the work we needed to do on the existing system. Absolutely.

K

J

Thank you, Thank.

C

You councilmember lady councillor care, Janice.

L

Thank You mr. mayor, through you to staff.

L

Thank you very much for providing some clarification. Do you foresee us using these machines for one last time any difficulties that might arise or are these machines with any retrofit that you're gonna have will pull us through this election I'm.

K

Not anticipating any difficulty whatsoever with this equipment worked very, very well for many elections now and it's been, you know shipped all over the place and it's still incredibly robust. We used it six times in the last year and a half and it worked flawlessly so.

L

Then you reassure us that we don't need to go to an expenditure right now in order to get new machines and the next election will be without a hundred percent, but we are going to be as just as close as we can in order to make sure that we have a robust and fair and fair election. Mr.

K

Mayor I have absolutely no difficulty with using this equipment again and I would insist in any event that it is too late. It is simply too late to change the equipment. At this point. Thank.

L

C

Thank You councillor Janice, there are visiting members of council, otherwise we can move to the committee I just had. If I could a couple of questions of the clerk just a flip side of councillor Jana's. This question, which is that is it? Is it in your sort of thinking that also this is equipment week that hasn't been used by us and I?

C

Guess for that matter, according to the definite hasn't been used in Ontario that there's a possibility, we could have some problems, whereas councillor Karajan has extracted that we haven't had problems with our own equipment. That is it possible. I mean do you? Have you seen this technology or heard about it or talk to anybody about it? I.

K

Have no idea whether this system would work as well as the one we have or not mr. mayor, but what I can tell you is that this is not the time to start changing it. We would need to rewrite 16 massive applications, which I think would give Rob Michael and his staff a heart attack. Well,.

C

We certainly wouldn't want that, and maybe that just disposes of it right away, but can I just ask you to confirm that you don't think that there is the time available, even if we thought this was a good idea for financial or other that there's not the time available for reasons related to the 16 applications and other things. No.

K

That's why we brought the report forward for council to make a decision last year in November right.

C

And then just on the train, I assumed there would be a training cost, and maybe you could just speak to that, because I guess a lot of the people that end up operating these machines. Are there not volunteers, but they're people who come in on short-term employment for the election and you'd have to identify who those people were and train them and I presume there's a cost to that as well. If you were to go this 300 training.

K

Mr. mayor is not additional, it is rolled into the cost which you can see on the chart on page 3. It's part of the municipal election cost I've.

C

Talked about training on the new, the new machines.

K

Training on the new machines would be extensive yeah. It would you know, because in any event, it would be training on entire new systems. Yeah.

C

Okay, thank you. Those are my questions. Anybody else that has a counselor to Georgio, so.

I

We own the machines correct. That's.

K

I

What has been our history with respect to our leasing, it out to other municipalities to use our equipment in the past I? Don't.

K

Have that information with me, but the equipment has been to BC many times for municipal elections. It has been to Quebec, it has been to New Brunswick. It has been to the Philippines, it has been to Alberta. It has been used in u.s. elections many times. Okay,.

I

So we have generated some revenue out of the ownership of those machines, correct.

K

I

Help me understand that one number that I'm having difficulty with the the cost related to buy elections up up in neighborhood of five hundred and twenty thousand for just by election, just in small Wars relative to an election across the city. Why is that number so high relative to the cost of an election? It.

K

Is in fact a number that is based on the cost of conducting what would be the cost of conducting a mayoral C election, which would be about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars and up to four counselor or school board by-elections. So it's a it's a contingency for many things.

I

Okay, but the way I see it written here, it's a contingency for up to two potential Ward by-elections, oh and one citywide. Why election? Okay, mister citywide? Thank you also.

K

C

Counselor with question: are you.

E

Lee, which US election.

K

E

Thank you, I was afraid we may have had part in the last US election and didn't want to doubt any of the results there. Thanks.

C

Counselors, your honor are there any other questions of staff, all right, I'm happy to move in two speakers. Anybody counselor family from outside of the executive committee go ahead. Yeah.

J

I I'm not sure, what's going on here, but but there's no reason for us not to be proceeding with our own machines, at whatever cost is associated to that I. Think that is there something going on on the other side of this. That tells me that someone might have a different agenda for how the City of Toronto votes and and and and tries to do something contrary to councils, recommendations and I.

J

Think councillor Pasternak hit hit the nail on the head there, so I think that that's what's going on here and and I would say to you that we probably can make the money back or, if not make even more money. If we continue leasing out to other municipalities and our machines, mr. mayor, they seem to be stable, they work they don't they don't tend to lean. Well, they sometimes they try to lean to the left, our machines, but but for the most part, it's they're they're, pretty stable.

J

The ones from the province tend to tend to lean to the left. I think this time around they're getting older and they might they might go to the right a bit. Might even break them. Who knows what might happen in the up? Come four inch election, but I'm, not I I! Think it's gonna bring us bad luck. If we, if we lease any mail from the province, I'd rather stay with the system, we have fix it up.

J

I think the clerk is comfortable with with that and there's just no logic for us to have even heard about a different model of this particular time that I hope you you've taken those comments as a recommendation from at least me.

C

J

C

Thank you. Thank you. Oh God family, any other visiting councilors members of the committee wishing to speak. That's a Shriner! Well.

E

Having being in the long-serving member of council and having those machines work for all those times, I think they're great and the results have just been perfect.

B

E

Never seen them make a mistake yet at particular in the wards which I represent so I'm more than happy to move the recommendations that staff need here to keep those machines going thanks.

C

Said counsel shiner any other speakers I have a motion to make in a brief remarks: a company- that's really just to make a choice of these options here. So I'll do that then, if nor, if no one else wants to speak. One of the other matters that we had to deal with in this item was the choice that was given to us in the report as to whether to proceed with a rebate program with respect to contributions or some other decision and I will be moving.

C

I am moving now that we authorize the rebate program, which is exactly the same as it has been in the past number of elections. There could be people who could debate it as to whether it's to this or to that, but the fact is I think it is work to attract people to support candidates of all kinds running in the process, and it is a and I think a reasonable cost and so I'm.

C

Moving that the recommendation shown on the screen here, which is to fund it from the election reserve fund and to have the rebate program, have the same parameters that it's had in past elections and also it carries with it. The recommendation you can see numbers see here that election campaign surplus funds become the property of the city, which has again been the practice followed in the last election. So III believe this is the right way to go and again it's back to sort of seeing if it works. Why would we start tampering with it?

C

It has worked fairly well, both the equipment and the rebate program, and that we should stick with what's tried-and-true so I'll be obviously supporting that. Are there any other speakers all right? We're ready for the question then, and first on the amendment to the to the recommendation number one to make the choice in favor the rebate program. All those in favor of the amendment opposed carried all those on the item. Then all those in favor opposed carry okay.

C

That then, takes us to 27.4 third party election advertising enforcement under the municipal elections, act 1996 and we have a deputy Emir slab glavish mr. gravity you're withdrawing from this one. Thank you very much that would bring us with no other deputies to questions of staff by visiting members of the committee. Councillor, rama, leading.

J

I'm just wondering what what does this actually mean in terms of a sitting councillor or the mayor in terms of third party advertising?

J

What changes have been made in the act.

M

J

Or not, but it's the enforcement of it I get it, but you got to enforce something so I'd like to understand a little bit more. But what's what changes of it they made so.

M

Through the mirror, the Municipal Elections Act for the first time integrates a framework for third party advertising. The impact on candidates is essentially they can't.

M

They cannot contribute to a third-party advertiser and the third-party advertiser has rules they now have to follow. They need to identify the source of their funding for the sign and give information on on the sign or the advertisement and and they have to register with the city clerk. So a lot of the rules for third party advertisers are actually quite similar to the rules for candidates, including the financial financial compliance rules. So.

J

If a third party wanted to advertise something on Billboard, they would need the city's permission to advertise it before they did it. They.

M

Would need to register with the city clerk and they would need to follow particular information. The Act lays out that they have to include on that billboard.

J

So, for instance, if if black lives mattered, wanted to take out a third party advertisement, that says: don't vote for councilor mammal Edie. What what would be their responsibility as a third party advertiser.

M

So after May, the first, which is the new nomination day in the act, black lives matter, we need to register with the city clerk and follow all the rules that the Act has laid out for third party advertisers right.

J

If someone wanted to do the reverse and say please vote for this person, would the candidate have to the candidate that the third party's advertising for would they have to somehow put that expense in their own election expense reports.

M

Through the mayor, no councilor, the the third party advertisers are quite separate from the candidate, so candidate can't direct. A third party advertiser has no obligation on financial disclosure, so.

J

Like a third party could say, don't vote against somebody, they can actually say please vote for somebody and they would have to go the same through the same process as as, as any other third party advertiser. That's.

M

Correct councilor they can oppose or support a candidate and.

J

They they do this without without somebody saying no to them, the clerk can't say: no, we don't, like you third advertiser, so we're not we're not going to endorse your third party advertising.

M

The clerk has no enforcement role with third party advertisers. As long as they follow the requirements of the Act, then they can essentially advertise what they deem appropriate.

M

The city does have the authority if they're breaching the MEA, by not requiring or including the required information on their sign or not registering with the clerk. The city could actually remove that advertisement, but that would be the extent of our enforcement ability under this scenario, that you've discussed.

J

Third party advertising isn't just billboards, though right this witness could amount to someone sending out flyers to every single household, suggesting to vote for somebody or not to vote for somebody. Yes,.

M

That's correct, councilor third party advertising could take any kind of form. It could be a billboard, it could be a house holder, it could be a radio ad, a TV ad, be.

J

A commercial could.

M

Be a commercial, it's quite broad, is.

J

There a limit to the amount of money that a third party person could spend on any one candidate.

M

So the province hasn't released all the regulations or forms related to third party advertisement and there will be a spending cap, but they haven't released that yet it's usually based on population.

J

Population of city or population and award we're.

M

Not quite sure how they're gonna do the spending cap for third party advertisers we're still waiting for that information from them? Okay, thank you very.

C

Much thanks ants the remedy: counselor Kari Janice Thank.

L

You, mr. mayor for you to staff in the case of somebody third party advertiser moving along and making slanderous remarks towards a candidate, something that's not founded, something which is inappropriate. What action can you take if anything.

N

So the regulations in the Municipal Elections Act are focused on the way the method in which and a third party advertiser can advertise what they must provide when doing so and a precondition that they must register in order to do so and who they can be to be a third party advertiser during a municipal election. It doesn't speak to content, although I understand some complaints may still come into the city about the content of some of these advertisements.

N

It isn't focused on that type of content through.

L

You to staff if the content is isn't appropriate and the candidate takes legal action. Is this still going to be deemed as part of the candidates expense for the elections.

K

Mr. mayor, the regime for spending and contributing to third-party advertisers is very different and separate from that of a candidate, so the two regimes are entirely separate. I'm.

L

Going to go back to my question and maybe I didn't phrase it right, I'm running somebody brings a slanderous remark and astray and distributes it in my ward, I go to my lawyer and I say this is slanderous. I want you to take action. The lawyer says: okay, the clock starts ticking about the time you walked in the door that gots me $5,000 for the lawyer to pick up right later on everything else. My limit is 40,000 I spent five.

L

Does that mean that the $5,000 spread to the lawyer in order to fight this off counts towards my election expense?.

L

You don't have an answer, do you maybe counselor.

M

I'm not I'm, not sure it's clear-cut, whether or not that would be considered an election expense. I think we need to look at that scenario a little bit more deeply, but the one thing I did want to comment on is the city sign. Bylaw does have some rules around.

M

What kind of content can be in a sign, so it can't be anti hate. You know it has to be somewhat appropriate. We do have to balance that with the the freedom of expression under the Canadian Charter, so it can be a tricky. The marrying.

L

Of staff city bylaw, sorry for science is one thing, but what about written formats? What action would you take if somebody says that so-and-so is doing so and so and that's totally inappropriate I mean you can't defend the candidate, but the candidate has to defend himself or herself. So in that case they have to go to the lawyer and mottley.

L

The bills start mounting up if the bills start mounting up, there's less money that the candidate can have in order to advertise to put up signs to to make phone calls to event space and I mean if anybody wants to do that. A third party advertising can start by doing this in order to instigate the candidate to go to a lawyer and the bills start winding up. I think those that has to be taken into consideration and those bills should be separate from fighting an election. If you're fighting a legal battle.

M

Through the mayor, Councillor I think you know the way that you've described that scenario and in conferring with our legal counsel. We believe that that would be considered a legitimate election expense, but.

L

Do you see what I mean I mean I hope that everybody realizes what we're getting into. If you want to drain a candidate, the only thing you got to do if you're a third party- and you don't like this candidate- is move in the direction put a flier out the cost. You 2,000 bucks and then the candidate has to run to a lawyer and it's depleting the expenses.

M

So councilor I I think that third party advertisement has has happened historically in elections. The difference now is that the municipal election act includes it and it's now a regulated activity is.

L

There somehow that you can go back to the province and have the legal bills in court in order the. If the candidate has to fight the slanderous remarks we removed from the candidates, expenses.

N

So counsel, if I understand your question, is it that council can request the province to make further amendments? The MEA, certainly that's within councils ability to make that request, but I would caution that, given the timing and how close you are to an election, it is unlikely the province will make any further substantive amendments is.

L

This something that you can watch during this election as a trial basis and probably we can revisit after the election and see what changes we might ask the province to me through.

M

The mirror so councillor we're going to be monitoring the third party advertising very closely, it's very difficult for us to know what kind of cases we're going to get we're going to be analyzing. What that looks like and bringing a report forward to Council after the election, making some recommendations on a go-forward basis, which may include recommended amendments to the MEA all.

C

Right, thank you. Thank You, councillor, Janice, councillor, perks,.

O

Thank you very much and thanks to my colleagues for their questions, I've been very concerned about this council.

C

Bricks, just uh there's still a little bit that buzz in this room. That happens when people are just people.

O

C

O

C

Ask questions now you know I thought those thinking is anything myself.

O

Please I've been concerned about this introduction of dark money into our elections since the province first considered this. Have they given us a date for when we can expect their regulations yet.

M

Through the mayor, they have not given us a date, but we are continuing to put pressure on them because we need to have the regulation and the forms in order for us to move forward with our planning and upgrading our updating our software system. Okay,.

O

Are we is it going to be like there I understand? There will be some kind of financial rules that you know how you can make donations to these third-party advertisers, whose responsibility is it to monitor that, or would it be to monitor that.

M

Through the mayor, so the clerk does not have a role to enforce the third party advertising in the Municipal Elections Act and the statue actually contemplates the municipality, doing that and that's the language they use. So what we're suggesting in this report is that council authorized the solicitor to retain a third party legal firm? That would essentially be the monitoring body for the third party advertising, ensuring compliance with the act and taking action for breaches and.

O

Given that we don't know what those regulations will be or how complex they'll be, how are we deciding how much to allocate to retaining this third part, this legal firm through.

M

The mayor, so we built in $200,000 in our 18 and in our 19 budget for third party advertising.

M

We are contemplating that, if there's any prosecutions that would require funding most of those would happen in 19, it's very difficult to know. If it's going to be an adequate amount of money and if it isn't, then the clerk would go forward to council- and you know, have a conversation with the city manager to identify a source and ask for an increase as appropriate. How.

O

Much money does the City of Toronto spend on compliance just for candid reviewing documents getting the the forms out. So people know what the rules are doing audits having the audit panel. How much does all of that cost ballpark numbers.

M

Through the mirror, in 2010, we spent approximately about five hundred thousand dollars on the compliance audit process for candidates and I think it was slightly less than twenty fourteen.

O

So I'm just I'm curious. If I'm just imagining a scenario, let us suppose that the provincial regulations are fairly loose and it's possible for someone to set up a third-party advertiser called the Friends of Mammal Edie and then his brother to set up a third party advertiser called the really good friends of Mammal Edie and then their cousin to set up the exceptional family and you can donate all of them in the program.

O

We wind up with very large amounts of money being spent on this election, give me possibly even more than what candidates spend given that we spend half a million just managing the compliance costs for candidates. Do you think 20,000 is going to be adequate? Sorry 200 is going to be adequate through.

M

The mirror we think that 400 may be adequate. You have to remember that the election is end of October in 2018, where we have 200,000 dollars already allocated, so we're surmising that most of the activity related to the third party advertising enforcement is going to occur in 19, which we would carry forward that 200 and it would give us $400,000 really to cover that cost. We did have some conversation with the province related to their third party advertising enforcement.

M

They've had a regime in place for a number of years and their volume actually is quite low. Again, it's difficult to know exactly what's gonna happen in Toronto, but we feel that $400,000 should be adequate and if it isn't we'll go for it and request additional funding as required. Thank.

C

You thanks counselor perks, members of the committee wishing to ask questions of staff. Councillor Robinson try.

M

Not to be redundant but I'm just trying to picture this so basically I'll give you an example. Unions can now play a role in this third party advertising.

M

If they, for instance, don't want us outsourcing garbage east of young unions could take an active role in trying to oust candidates. That are. Proponents of that is that correct through the mayor unions, can participate in third party advertising as long as they follow the rules laid out and the municipal elections Act, that's correct, so a union that would could put out flyers billboards any type of marketing material collateral material against a candidate that was not potentially supportive of outsourcing or some other related matter issue. That is correct. Councilor.

M

Is there any way to I'm getting a strong vibe around the table that people aren't really proponents of this concept? Is there any way to opt out, or is there any options before us to to try to address this through the mayor? No councilor, the the province of Ontario, has put a regime in place in their legislation that the city is required to follow. This was not a scheme that the City of Toronto requested and in fact we had very little consultation or input on it.

M

The other comment, I would say on your last question around the unions. The unions could have done that before the difference is it's now regulated, so I guess to some extent, they're increasing the transparency of third-party advertising. That could have happened in previous elections without any regulatory framework in place. So if a union went around and picked up van loads of people and gave them a granola bars and took them to the election, that will now be transparent, cuz that happens right. We've heard that many times takes them to the polling stations.

M

I, don't know if that would meet the definition of third-party advertising in the act. Oh particular scenario can I. Ask you then about the financial and some of my colleagues are already done.

M

Not but well, they're not be a bit of a ripple effect above and beyond the $200,000 when you're looking at enforcement of these of this material- and that seems very costly to me when you're dealing with hundreds of candidates across the city through the mayor again, we we feel that we've got really four hundred thousand dollars allocated for the third party advertising enforcement, because we've built in two hundred thousand and eighteen and another two hundred and nineteen.

M

We believe that most of the enforcement activity and any prosecution activity would occur in nineteen because the election is so late in eighteen and based on the volume that the province gets. We are hopeful that the four hundred thousand dollars is going to be adequate and, if it isn't, then we would address that at that time as needed. So I'm, just thinking of currentl.

M

Current campaigns and there'll be signs that are in medians on streets, where they're not supposed to be placed or there'll, be signs being pulled down by other candidates, and you ask stuff to act on these things and it seems to take forever because it's happening all across the city. How are you going to manage all of this above and beyond? What's already happening and not being addressed so if there, let's give an example, a billboards up there, it's completely inappropriate. How long will it take?

M

What are the timelines till that's going to be taken down so.

N

I'll speak to the signs enforcement just to clarify that the cost of enforcing against election signs will be through the MLS staff. They will enforce not only the election signs of candidates, but also third-party advertisers. Third-Party advertisers using election signs must comply with the rules contained in this. In the chapter that regulates candidates, election signs that enforcement cost is separate is.

M

That Ben is up in address. That's my question has up and address because currently it takes forever if they never get there to address these things because they're completely overwhelmed it's a big city, yeah.

N

So I can't speak to timelines for what the enforcement protocols will be for the election signs enforcement, which would now include third party advertising signs. Perhaps if you have through.

M

The mayor, Councillor I, think you know we can bring this to the attention of Alma MLS, but they're not here to really speak to that. So I don't know what their service level is related to addressing illegal signs under their bylaw. Well, that's fine. Thank you.

C

Thank You councillor Robinson other members of committee wishing to ask questions: I've got councillor DiGiorgio councillor Ainsley, councillor Pasternak,.

I

Thank You mr. mayor, so if someone contributes to a third party, it does that person also qualify for the rebate.

M

Through the mayor, third-party advertisers do not qualify for the contribution rebate program, but someone contributing to a third.

I

M

I

M

Not eligible for the contribution rebate program, all.

I

Right, thank you. Thanks.

C

Councillor to George Rowe, councillor Ainsley.

F

Thank you three meritorious expected to be issued by the province through.

M

The mirror the province hasn't given us a firm date, they're suggesting likely spring we're hopeful that we may get them earlier than that. As the clerk said on the last report, we have 16 different applications that automate a lot of our business processes, including the financial contributions of candidates and we're building in fields related to third party. So we're hopeful that we'll get the regulation and any forms they're going to issue before the end of this year, but they have indicated to us it's likely going to be the spring. So.

F

When we in a previous item, we talked about election machines and the tabulators and needing them now, if we don't don't do that now, that could be tight for the provincial election, but we're looking at finance regulations we're not going to see until next spring correct.

F

M

Correct so we are building enhancements to our financial reporting system, assuming what we believe may be in there, and we won't need to finalize that when the province releases the regulations when they do that and.

F

One of the things that really stood out to me is that as a municipal candidate, were you can't take corporate donations, but in the report it says third-party advertisers, a corporation which does business in Ontario can donate up to $1,200.

F

M

Correct councillor, okay,.

F

And so then, my next question, because there's example there's an example: that's very relevant to this, which took place in California where they had a small mom-and-pop third party organization that sounded like your neighbor next door, but it was actually backed by a billion-dollar multinational company which effectively overturned three-quarters of their City Council within these regulations. How how do you follow back so, if I have a mom-and-pop for lack of a better word third-party organization? How do you determine who they're actually owned by you can? Can you counts.

M

Where I think that would be very difficult to identify, I mean as long as the mom-and-pop shop followed, the municipal election act and the requirements that are set out. I think it would be difficult for the municipality to know if there's someone behind that, bankrolling them yeah and can.

F

You refresh my memory, so the spending limit our talked about that you're expecting and the regulations is that going to be a spending limit by ward or city wide for a third party advertising company through.

M

The mayor we're not sure what how they're going to calculate the spending limits, whether on a water or citywide basis. We don't have that information from them at this time. Okay,.

F

And then the other thing that stood out to me in the report, so a third party is going to register with the city clerk, but the enforcement is going to be done by the city solicitor. The.

M

Report recommends that the city solicitor retain a third party law firm to do the investigation and enforcement. The clerk administers the election and can't enforce certain aspects at the same time, because it would be considered a conflict. Okay,.

F

And and then, when it comes to enforcement, I didn't see any reference in the report at all and I. Think councillor Robinson raised this about MLS. We, you know we have a lot of trouble just with where our election signs go, or you know whether its private, our public property and now you're talking about third party enforcement, which could be putting you know, hypothetically billions of dollars into a city, election and I, didn't see any reference to referencing ml last about enforcement staff increases.

M

Through the mayor, so the report on page four and top of page five does set out the MLS role related to the city's signed by law. So it is included and it I agree with you. It is a large component.

M

We have not had a conversation with MLS yet around service levels, but given has been raised here today, I'm happy to do so. Okay,.

F

And you don't need direction a motion to do that. No.

M

I, don't believe I do okay,.

F

C

Thank you meritorious thanks cows Paisley councillor pasture.

D

Thank you, Thank You, mr. mayor, just following up on councillor Robinson's questions about adopt provision. Looking over a couple of the policies that the City of Toronto has adopted over the years regarding elections, corporate donations we do not accept is that a province-wide policy or is that a made in Toronto policy through.

M

The mayor, so the by law, to restrict corporate donations to candidates was actually a Toronto policy and the province believed it was such a great practice. They've now included it in the municipal elections act as a province-wide policy. All.

D

Right but Toronto clearly opted out of the corporate donations aspect of the municipal elections act as a leader. In that way, the donation rebate program. Is that province wide, or is that once again, a made in Toronto initiative? The.

M

Contribution rebate program is province wide.

O

M

If the municipality and the council.

D

M

To do it, it's not mandatory, as you saw earlier, you had a choice.

D

The point is that it's an opt-in or an opt-out program. That's.

M

Correct, but the third, so third party advertisement is not an opt-in opt-out.

D

M

Program in the arced well,.

D

Many many people are feeling very uncomfortable about this before Stafford party advertising and since their precedence for opting interrupting out on provisions of the Municipal Elections Act. Why would it not apply in this case as well.

O

N

Answer that one, it is a mandatory provision the MEA does set out the regime. It is compulsory. Individuals who are third-party advertisers are going to be captured by this regime. I do want to note that, prior to this, these amendments coming into forest, third-party advertisers could participate in municipal elections without any restrictions. So this is actually something that we view is a new restrictions on a charter protected right for third parties to express their democratic views in elections.

D

Wouldn't you wouldn't you agree that we're more legitimizing and and encouraging it rather than really hyper regulating it.

N

I'm not sure that I can ask that question of them than to say yes, there are now formal rules around the advertisement, so it provides official recognition that it's going to occur in in the regime. That said, oh.

D

Okay, thank you.

C

After pasternak I didn't have any other people on my speakers or my questioners list at this moment, Oh to speak okay, so we will move two speakers then, and we'll first have any of our visiting colleagues who speak and I have councillor perks and we'll go from there. Councillor.

O

Thank you very much. Mr. mayor, you know I'm deeply concerned about this and to councillor Pasternak's point. Yes, it's true that there weren't regulations before but because there were, there was a gray area and no one really knew what the rules were.

O

Members of council were all extraordinarily cautious, and if some group of people came forward and said, we really love what you're doing we'd love to put up signs saying vote for you, we would discourage it because we were concerned it would that would get added on to our total and that we would go over our spending limit. So there was a sort of informal regulatory thing happen because there it was gray and we everyone running for council was very concerned that they not have.

O

Someone else spend money that would be counted under their limit and that was sort of a self policing mechanism. With these new rules, however, the door is wide open and I'm very concerned that we don't have the regulations in place and I'm further concerned that it opens the door again to corporate and union donations.

O

It's a matter of some pride for us here at the City of Toronto that we were among the first to bring those restrictions in, and it's now being replicated province-wide and in many their jurisdictions, as well as one of the very very many instances of the City of Toronto being a leader on ethical, open and transparent elections, and I think that I'm this new regime the province is bringing in, could be a giant step backwards for us. We find ourselves, however, in a position where we're wrestling with jell-o.

O

We don't even know what the rules will be. So mr. mayor I, don't you know, know if there's a motion in this or anything, but I would encourage you to very strongly signal to staff that when we do get the regulations we all need to as a government sit down and say how do we make sure that voters have maximum transparency, to figure out where the money's coming from the candidates have very clear rules and that the Torontonians are able to vote in another transparent, open and honest election?

O

Like the last several that we've had and I encourage you to turn your mind to that, mr. mayor I, I don't have a deadline because the province hasn't offered one, but I think this is a very deep importance to the City of Toronto. Thank you.

C

Thanks accounts of perks, others did you ever have that customer leave yeah. Basically.

J

So this is I think this is gonna, be very interesting in terms of how this unfolds I mean here, you got you've got a system already in place that allows for third parties to to advertise their regulating it. So now we know who they're going to be, and that's a positive side to this equation. I think and- and you know, we've had- we've had hundreds- if not thousands of examples of this happening in the past, I can recall care councillor, Karen stints getting elected, because the local rate payer Association decided to go after her right.

J

That's third party I would imagine that repair see. Associations have been doing this forever.

J

What is wrong with that I mean there's nothing wrong with that and, and it's been happening forever so I could see some negative sides to this. Mr. mayor and I could see some positives to this council. Perc mentions friends of mammal Edie I I'd be willing to bet. You know that. That's not something anybody has to worry about.

J

Even though I know, I know a few people around the city, but I would be more inclined to say, there's going to be a hell of a lot more socialist pop parties in basements, going on trying to figure out who's, gonna pay for the next signer next rousting of some some right right, leaning, counselor, I, think that's gonna happen more than friends of mammal Edie, getting together, I think I. Think if anything, councillor perks its comments are, are you know typical about how he doesn't like it?

J

But I can assure you that you know there's going to be a lot of people like councillor perks, who are gonna, actually encourage the union's to to get their billboards up and try and and and and house the people that have voted in favor of certain things, and you know there's nothing wrong with that, because it's democracy, it's it's! What it's about I will be encouraging developers, for instance, and and and real estate agents and all the people that seem to be calling our office about about the taxes that it seemed to be going on.

J

The land transfer taxes, the the the the the the the fact that kids can't buy homes anymore I would encourage them to do that this election and bring out bring out how that how people have voted on taxes in the City of Toronto, I. Think I think everybody should have an opportunity talking about who should be elected and who shouldn't and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as it's done in it, you know tactfully I, I, don't necessarily disagree with this I see I see a lot happening.

J

This election council, perks and I think we both know that it might be a little fun actually to see to see whether or not a whole new industry can finally find enough courage to go after certain people on council, so they don't get reelected again and to stop spending people's money like it's like it grows on trees. Right I would hope that that that would happen, but I don't know, but it's happening already to a small degree. It's going to be large this time, because it's legitimized this is what is doing, is legitimizing.

J

What's been, what's been secret all these years, so let's, let's bring out all our friends council perks and and see where the billboards go with that and let's see where you know where those were those socialist communist parties end up in the middle of basement somewhere, didn't decided who's, gonna pay for what.

C

Did you leave out the pot part? Didn't you say, socialist pot parties earlier on, never mind? Don't you don't have to answer that question? Okay, that was okay, other we have I, don't think we have. You know other visiting members of council. So there are members of the committee I wishing to speak councillor Robinson, okay,.

M

Thank you very much. Mr. mayor I have a joint motion. A councillor, Pasternak and I worked on this together and it may end up in the in the shredding been at at the province, but we thought we'd give it a shot, and you can hear from the from the comments around the room and the speeches are most of them that people are uncomfortable with this I think that, generally we have fairly clean elections.

M

Municipal elections, that's in Toronto for the most part, but there are some campaigns that are a bit more challenging, but I think this just ups, the dick ups, the dirt and I, can't really find the word to explain it except to say that I, don't think this is a good way forward. I think this is a step back and I. Think all of us around this table know that things aren't regulated. That's our our insiders. Knowledge is, unfortunately, you can say what you want on paper, but the reality is on the street.

M

During the campaign during elections, things are not regulated because there just isn't the resources to regulate them. So I think this opens the doors to unions, developers, corporations influencing the the vision of the city by influencing councillor votes and I'll. Give you an example. A number of real estate agents who are very powerful in the city or or you know very you know- have deep pockets could easily work together to to tackle a counselor. That was maybe pro heritage, that's kind of a micro example, but it could be much bigger than that.

M

So I understand what staffers saying they're saying well, actually this is good news, they're regulating it, but I think councilor Pasternak's comments were on the money as we're formalizing it and I. Don't think councillors sitting around this horseshoe or in the chamber should be beholden to any organization. We should all be here for the City of Toronto in the future of the city, not for unions, not for developers not for corporations. So I think this is a big step, backward and and I don't think we should.

M

We should find any way possible to opt out of this, and we should send that message on behalf of executive as well as City Council, and send that message and make sure it's loud and clear to to the province that we we don't. We don't want to go down this road.

C

Thanks councillor Robinson councillor Pasternak Thank.

D

You mr. mayor I just wanted to speak for a minute to support the motion before us for the City of Toronto to opt out of the third-party advertisement clauses of the Mizpah Elections Act. When the province receives the letter, they'll probably say well. If we give it to Toronto, then we have to give the opto option to all municipalities and I think that's just fine. This is probably the second or third time the staff report has come before either Council or this committee on third party advertisement and I.

D

Think it's a big mistake to go down this road. We do not have the resources to regulate it. It will start bringing some big money into campaigns we've seen in the Republic to the south. What happens when PACs and big money gets involved in campaigns? The cynicism sets in the corruption sets in people are being swayed by deceptive advertising approaches.

D

This is just going to be a mess, and it's gonna. We're gonna regret going down this road. We're gonna, regret supporting it and I think. At the end of the day, we have to keep the status quo. Let let candidates go out into their various awards to speak on the issues, to take the stands, to use the very strict budgets that they have to run their campaigns and not let third parties start hijacking the democratic process. I would say: I might I might benefit from this.

D

This kind of policy, but I still think it's wrong and I think I think we should do what we can in the months ahead to make sure that the City of Toronto once again as in corporate donations and the donation rebate program, shows the leadership with an opt-out provision in an admissible elections, act and- and we should make clear by supporting councillor Robinson's motion. Thank you.

C

Others wishing to speak I want to say a word on this. If there's have no others, I've been sort of thinking about and I'll just.

C

Let me start the clock whether you're better off to vote before or against this, but I want to just explain why I'm probably gonna vote against the motion made by councillor Robinson and that is and I share a lot of the concerns expressed around the table by councillor, perks and others about this, and my main concern about it is the fact that, as usual, with these things that happen with the province, we're sort of getting this at the last minute, we didn't ask for it. We weren't really consulted on it and I.

C

Just as recently as this morning was talking about the cannabis, the new cannabis regime and the fact I said to all the assembled mayors and the premier was there who's going to get all the calls about cannabis to do with people smoking in places they shouldn't be or stores where they're not supposed to be we're, gonna get them all, and I was really speaking there to the question of money and, like so many other things, we are affected directly, of course, by this law. That was changed without really any consultation with us.

C

But what I want to say is simply this, and somebody acknowledged it earlier on I think it was councillor Robinson herself, with respect to ratepayers I, look at it actually as a small step forward, albeit that I have real concerns, but the fact there wasn't consultation.

C

We don't even know some of the the parameters of this, because I believe today, I'd be correct and saying there is nothing stopping much bigger money than this from getting involved in the campaigns, because at least with this, you have, as you see in the report here, the rules that are out say that no contributor and the contributors do include corporations and and unions.

C

So in that sense it's inconsistent with what applies to candidates, and correctly, and, and rightly so- I mean I'm happy with the fact that we don't have corporations and unions contributing here, but they can contribute twelve hundred dollars to one-third party and not more than five thousand to multiple third parties and I believe I. Believe I've been right in saying.

C

If somebody wanted to form up one of these groups tomorrow and get one contribution of a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars from somebody, they could do that, and so in this sense at least this represents a step forward and saying there are going to be restrictions. Placed I have all the same questions about how we're now gonna suddenly be trying to enforce that, as well as all of our own rules that have to do with candidates and the other thing that is going to come forward and again.

C

I just think it is I think it is unacceptable that it would be coming forward as late as I think I heard the answer the spring, but there's going to be a spending limit, so right now, I believe it would be possible for some group to form up and to not only take huge donations from wealthy individuals, corporations or unions, big donations, but also to spend millions of dollars rather than anybody regulating them and and so I. Think.

C

In that sense, when there is a limit, I, don't know what its gonna be, because it's coming from the province and again I find that passing strange that they just set that limit, and we have nothing to say about it. But I think that whatever the limit is it'll be an improvement on no limit and so I'm inclined to believe that, while I'm not happy to it with the way. This has been handled.

C

I actually believe that this represents a step forward against exactly what councillor Robinson and councillor Pasternak spoke about, which is the sort of Wild West, where anybody can go out and sort of try and buy and sell elections. I don't mean, buy and sell candidates buy and sell elections by spending huge amounts of money, I believe the United States system.

C

You know sort of the heartland of democracy has been tragically distorted by money and that our rules up here generally in Canada I, tell Americans about what we're faced with in terms of spending limits and donation limits, and they they they serve. How can you possibly run an election I said? Well, it's worked for many years now very successfully and down.

C

There I think that while they still have elections, they're grossly distorted by money in these PACs and all these other things I don't understand how they all work frankly, but but yeah I just know what distorts the process so I will vote against the amendment. For that reason, only that I think actually this as much as I. Don't like the methodology and the way it's come about the process, I think actually does represent some improvement on what today could be a huge hole in these rules related to the participation of third parties.

C

You know whether they're bona fide E or not, so that those are my comments and I. Think if there are no other speakers, we'll call the question on the first on the motion by councillor Robinson, which we'll put up here for you on the on this motion. All those in favor opposed motion, I, think, is lost and I think there were three in favor and it's lost then, on the on the item 27.4, all those in favor opposed carry okay.

C

Thank you all very much that would bring us then to 27.5 commemorating world events report on recognizing genocides and massacres. There are two deputies on that and the first is Cal EMA Bono President Rwandan community abroad.

C

Good morning, sir morning and welcome to the executive committee- and you have five minutes, thank you.

P

Thank you for having me here today for the record, my name, my name is Caleb Mabon. Oh I am.

P

Yes, yeah, my name is Caleb.

P

We are here this morning specifically to seek Crowley and also to share insights, because this motion strictly impacted how we commemorate the genocide against water. So, first of all, there's two issues that are being looked at, one is recognizing the genocide and also the commemorative events from a global perspective.

P

Whenever council and the mayor, the United Nations designated specifically Epis Evans as a reflection and honor of the victims of the genocide. Now that has been the President and every other member nations have been encouraged to follow the suit.

P

Now, on Canada's level, we really commend the steps that has been taken by the federal government, the Canadian government since 2004 recognized Epis evan to commemorate the genocide against Tutsi and in 1999 the Canadian extradition Act and as a registration we adopted in 2000, Canada, enacted crimes against humanity and war crimes, Act, which authorizes the initiation of proceedings in Canada for these offenses, if even if they were committed abroad.

P

In 2015, the Canadian Parliament unanimously adopted motion 5 m5 to 587, and this is basically discourse for subsequent governments to honor the victims of all genocides by recognizing the more the month of April as a genocide, Remembrance contamination and Prevention Month. So what we have today obviously was confusing for us, because you know the the runnin community has, for the last almost 10 years, had the privilege to commemorate by raising the one frog here at the city hall on April 7th. It was not until this year that you know when this motion came into place.

P

We were absolutely told without notice that we couldn't commemorate and raise the flag at the city hall. So we came here today specifically to share the importance what this means to us as a community and also to share the insights on what the report says for us.

P

Commemorating genocide on April 7th goes to the heart of the survivors, who make a big a big number of the community here in Toronto. It is a moment for us to grieve. It is. It is a time that we come together to commemorate the draft ones, but it's also a moment where we have other communities within Toronto that join us, and you know, support the the healing process we commemorate publicly and we breathe when we do so. We are reaffirming the never gain slogan that was adopted the years ago.

P

We are also doing this to ensure that we are educating the Canadian society that we are sharing and also making sure that genocide is something that we take seriously. I have no doubt that the City of Toronto the same way.

P

However, when we read the motion that we have on the table today, we were concerned because the motion specifically combines genocide, massacres and as a violent acts in one box, vulnerable council I would like to highlight that this is very concerning, because genocide is intentional, it's brand and it's executed as a violent acts or massacres may be spontaneous and can also be random. So we do at the City Council to consider the magnitude of genocide and how we standardize not put this together, because they don't mean the same.

C

Just to have to ask you to wrap up just a couple: more sentences, we're just at five minutes now. What.

P

We are asking today when I will cancel and mayor. We are asking that you are ours to continue to be able to commemorate on April 7th here at the city hall. We also ask that you consider designating a public place where we could display. We could talk, we could, you know, share this day with the community. Here, it's very important to us and we.

C

Also have to stop you there, sir, has just 5:40 now so I. Thank you very have to be fair to everybody here in terms. Thank you the time. Thank you very much and there'll be some questions. I know so that'll give you a chance to taste a s'more. We have. The first questioner is counselor care. Janice.

L

Good morning and thank you to to enlighten us on this tragedy that happened in your country through the mayor to you, you were able to raise the flag for how many years you were. You were not able to it this year. He was five years in a row. So for five years in a row, we were alone you to raise your flag to commemorate what happened in Rwanda. That's what allowing you to commemorate the fact that Canada had an important role to play. There was a senator senator der leer.

L

There was the UN and he suffered from PTSD is a very recognized individual, and then this year we told you you couldn't raise the flag.

P

L

P

A reason why you couldn't raise the flag- it was this motion that brought to me here today. He was not this.

L

Motion that we got in front of us did not allow their abundant community to raise the flag to commemorate and remember the genocide in Rwanda. That is correct. Let me ask one more time for the people to hear this. This motion that, although United Nations, although the Government of Canada and nobody in the world, doubted what happened in Rwanda did not allow you to commemorate what happened in Rwanda, the City of Toronto stepped up and says you couldn't raise your flag, you couldn't commemorate and we disregarded what happened would I be correct.

L

That is very correct. On Io cancer I will not ask any more questions. Mr. mayor, this is a real shame. I.

C

Needed some questions of staff, but you've finished with the deputy and thank you do we have other people wishing to ask questions of the deputy visitors or members of the committee? Okay? Well, thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Then we would move to questions of staff, counsel, care, Janice, I'm. Sorry, oh I, apologize, counsel, Karadeniz, there's one more definate, so we'll hear that at the end of questions. Thank you. We have a Miroslav lavage.

C

Good morning, sir, you know the rules. Five minutes welcome.

D

Ken Azhar, it's all my my.

B

One concern is here this.

L

Recognition of only violent, violent world events, who's.

B

Going to decide what what violent is, how many people have a have to die at an event.

L

Through counselor Kerry James, but he was an MP, the Armenian Genocide was recognized and they think the one in in.

B

Sri Lanka yeah.

D

B

There's some people there's there's no definition of only ten thousand people that a lot of people dying a lot in a lot other pay world, including my.

P

Country in Croatia Bosnia surveyed during the night, isn't that.

L

Has ever been being recognized, how many people dying, Afghanistan, Pakistan and in India you know the ally.

B

Official life is life. If any of you grew up in a war zone like I did when I was five, even though this.

L

Will only certain genocides get reckon recognized.

B

By the city, it could easily be interpreted to say things: the people like a bond get recognized in fear, and we.

L

Don't matter this.

B

I

If you can recognize the.

B

I

Violent events, kind of like Rohan.

L

Jia in ink nian me Amer going right now.

I

You should recognize all of them with all the respect. Thank.

C

You thank you, mr. garvik, any questions of the deputy. Thank you very much. Now we could move to questions of staff and I head counselor, Cara Janice. Thank.

L

You through you to staff, we were allowing the rwandan community to raise their flag on command of the genocide for how many years.

K

Mr. mayor, if I might clarify the request that we got last year, the flag-raising was held until we could bring this report and a policy forward to Council. That is the only reason under the policy that is before you, it would actually be authorized and it would be covered under this policy.

K

L

Let me let me ask my question again to the mayor of staff: how many years did we allow them to raise their flags before he had this policy.

L

The DEP UNICEF is that correct through.

K

The mayor, we believe it's five years, I.

B

Don't have the exact figures here, but we do. We believe it is correct. The the deficit was.

K

Correct five years so.

L

By us asking you to write this report, an author, but whoever authored it, we tied your hands and you were not able to allow them to raise their flag. Would that be correct? Mr.

K

Mayor, we were in the process of doing our research at that point and we were looking across the country and we're trying to determine exactly how this should work. What we learned was that genocide is actually an international there's, an international court definition and we needed to make sure that it could be brought under a policy and in fact, what we learned was that this this approach to the policy would cover this.

L

Sorry I'm going to ask my question one more time, because we asked you to look at the report and you diligently went after this. The community was not allowed to raise their flag. Would I be correct in that pending.

K

The preparation of the report- yes, so.

L

We, as a body here, ask you to do this and we did not allow this community to raise their flag and.

L

You know I'm not gonna, go any further. The author that did this is just atrocious. Thank you. There.

C

Are other questions of staff? Could I just follow on that, because I'd like to ask it a different way, I think the point that counselor Cara Janice was getting out as we had allowed it for a number of years based on no policy, but I think did I understand you correctly, madam clerk, to be saying that under the policy that this would have been allowed, because there has been official, parliamentary or Government of Canada recognition of the Rwandan genocide. Is that correct? Yes,.

K

This is recognized by the government of Canada as a genocide and would be commemorated. That's.

C

The other approach we could have taken is to say well in light of that we could have allowed it one more year until this policy was passed and then governed it under this policy, but we could have done that was. That was an option that was open to us. I presume.

B

C

A decision was taken by public servants and it is what it is, but I guess the I just want to clarify. That was an approach we could have taken, which I think is what you were getting at and it would have allowed this year's ceremony to take place. Okay, are there other questions, but I have staff ine.

D

Thank You mr. mayor I'm, going through the report here and I'm, just wondering how this affects motions to council declaring certain historical, violent events as as Jennifer genocide or crimes against humanity. They.

K

Would be covered by the policy and would follow the Parliament and government of Canada's policies and recognitions, and they would also be recognized during the month of April. So.

D

If a motion, if a member brought a motion to Council to declare a certain historical event, genocide, it would be out of order unless the Parliament of Canada had already recognized that historical event as as genocide or crimes against humanity. Here.

K

Subject to councils making an exception? Yes, that's correct.

D

Okay, so council could override what would the two-thirds vote it could override? What's in this report or.

K

Yes, council makes exceptions to many of its policies from time to time when it's appropriate and.

D

Is this an inference that whatever the Parliament of Canada passes, we agree with or deviate from it can we have our own say or what is I, don't I'm trying to think what the connection is between one legislative body and another on on a declaration of this nature, the.

K

Connection councillor is actually the reason that the particular individual who moved this motion had concerns about, and that is that the federal government and Parliament are recognized as the government and the level of government in our Constitution that is responsible for international and global affairs.

K

Hence we have relationships with with console consulates and others that are based on that relationship.

D

Okay, thank you. Thanks.

C

Councillor Pasternak, if there are no other questions of staff, we could move to speakers. Councillor Cara Janice.

L

Thank You mr. mayor, and certainly your asking staff of the explanation, was one way of looking at it. The other way to look at it is that we denied a community that was butchered. We denied a community for five years that were raising their flag, because this, the this was being authored by staff and no fault of the average staff. However, I would say there was the fault of the people, that of the person that actually brought the motion forward. They should be ashamed themselves.

L

We denied the community to raise Flagg time and time again in this chamber.

L

We remind other levels of government that what they were doing is wrong time and time again in this chamber. We right. We ask the the city manager, and/or the city clerk, to write to other governments and say look what you're thinking and what you're doing is wrong, and yet, in this one we are going in Reverse and we're saying we're. Gonna follow the federal government, which is a good thing, but that shouldn't stop us from listening to our communities that shouldn't stop us. Where were on the ground level.

L

Here all right, this council is on the ground level. I had the pleasure of serving federally for 26 years and then this ground level, you listen more to constituents you're more engaged. This will deny constituents that come forward to us and say we want to have a commemoration. We want to have a remembrance. We want the City Council to engage and I. Don't think this is appropriate. I, don't think this is appropriate, that we say that we're gonna follow the federal government on this one.

L

Well, on other issues, we take it in reverse role and we write to them. This is a legislative body on its own. We should be able to make our own decisions. We shouldn't be influenced by other levels of government. Is we're not? We should take guidance but to stay strictly, because our level of government is doing this that we have to follow.

L

It I urge members around the stable to receive this for information, and let us continue the work that we're doing with our communities just because one person that they're shorts tied in a knot, because somebody else second emotion that shouldn't constitute that we forget, we dismayed and we automatically just say to the communities. Sorry, we can't deal with your request. We can't entertain you to come and speak to us. That is not right.

L

This council passed a motion which a community was working on for decades and affected me personally and I want to thank them for doing this, but moving forward that community couldn't come here and do it was because of the motion that was passed here, that the Senate at this very moment is having the conversation to recognize the Ponte and wreak genocide.

L

It was because the initiative that we took in this body that they have now the fortitude in the back one in order to do it, what happens if the Jewish community, at the time that we were studying this, was to step forward and say we want to raise a flag in order to commemorate what would have told them. I'm sure would not have been the same thing that we told everyone there, one the community, and yet there are wonderful community that was small community in Toronto or sucker-punched.

L

Because of this motion, if it was the Jewish community or any other community with large numbers would have been different, and yet we did it to them. I think, mr. mayor, we need to apologize and respect them for what happened to them. This decision of ours to move forward with this report tied the hands of staff in order for them to allow to raise their flag, and here we have one of the latest Jenna sites that are cured in this world.

L

With this council and the decision that we took tying the hands of staff and ignoring their requests. To remember how shameful is that? How shameful is this to the work that our soldiers, our peacekeeping soldiers, the Canadian soldiers, that we had there the work that they did and what does that say to the memory of the people that passed away? We ignored you with a City of Toronto failed you. We just don't think that we recognize that the Rwandan genocide, that's what it speaks to mr. mayor I want to stop there and I.

L

Would ask you, sir, to consider from your office to certainly apologize to the community because of what we did to staff by tying their hands and the people could not commemorate. Thank you. Thank.

C

You councillor Kerr Janice, so we're now on speakers from visiting members I, don't think there any others in the room that wish to speak. So we'll go to the members of the committee wishing to speak. Councillor McMahon, oh I'm, sorry I did have the deputy mayor down first, so I you're, quite right and I have counselor Burnside too, and I have consul McMahon after that. So please so.

H

Thank you, Thank You, mr. mayor I'm, I'm gonna speak in favor. The report I think. One of the reasons is because I'm on the guy that asked for it from what's been going on here, so so there needs a little bit. There needs to be some sort of context put in to this report. The idea the words, genocide and Massacre come with significant implications, they're big words, and they mean they have big meanings to them and we shouldn't be recognizing these things lightly or easily it here at the City of Toronto.

H

We don't really have a framework for for making those decisions. Nor do we have the capacity to completely understand all all the impacts and whether we should be doing this or not. In fact, one of I remember that reference that councillor Kerry Janice made it was just made on a notice of motion. There was no debate, no discussion.

H

It was just hands up, hands down and I'm, really not sure that we actually really understood what all those all members of council understood what that meant. So so the other thing is is as this as this continues as we're: gonna have more information come in front of us staff. Don't have the capacity to to to decide these things, and if valuating these things, they don't have people in other countries. They don't have historians, they don't have. You know they're, not international law experts. They don't have. That is not what our staff do they?

H

Don't it's not what they do so we're asking them to write reports that that that they're not skilled or equipped to write. So here we have in front of us a report that creates some framework around doing this and I'm. Also mindful of the fact as well that whenever we without a framework for decisions, these things come before committee and they're very, very long debates with many many deputies and also forever. Also there is a lot of conflict, that's created between different groups who are impacted by this.

H

So this particular report creates a framework around this. Where we ask the federal go that we take advice from the federal government, anything that they recognize that we automatically recognize. So it makes sense for that. From that perspective, not only do not only does it do that, but if you look at the report it it actually enhances how we recognize these events by declaring each April genocide, remembrance, condemnation and Prevention Month, so there's actually a framework where these things can be properly recognized.

H

So I actually I think this is a great report and I think that we should we should go ahead and and adopt it.

C

Thank you. Do deputy Mary Ann I'm wrong, Council Burnside Thank.

F

You, mr. mayor, through you, I agree that may be an apology would be in order for the flux of that staff went through in trying to figure out this policy, but I think to say that it was a somehow that we disgraced our military is a little bit over the top I'd. Actually ask you not to interrupt me. That's the first thing. I do because I had to listen to you, so you have to listen to me. That's how it works.

F

Thank you, sir, but counsel in my short time here. I find is constantly asked to wade into issues outside of our jurisdiction and not so much. My biggest concern with that is that we don't have the research or the resources to actually make informed decisions. Quite often we're asked to decide on issues or we have been asked to decide on an issue that a lead that occurred a hundred years ago and so quite often we're making ill informed decisions. That's why I think this is excellent report.

F

It gives us some frame work and it should streamline the process and and put us in a position where we're recognizing tragic world events, but where we're actually making in I'll say somewhat informed decisions because we're following the lead of the federal government who has actually done the research. Thank you.

C

Thank You Council Burnside, council McMahon thank.

B

You very much I just wanted to say that I think this is a good, a good thing. It makes sense to align with federal government and I want to thank deputy mayor minam Wong for bringing it forward and I would urge councilor Carrie Janice just stop continually bringing such divisive issues to council to grant.

L

Award a chairman, I, know, I'm sure I, don't have a point of order, but you can't tell me what to do and what to bring to council sign I guess.

B

I'm urging I'm not telling that's.

C

Right, thank you very much accounts with my band continue. Please. It's.

B

C

Done all right, counselor Georgia, Thank.

I

You, mr. mayor very very quickly, the benefit.

B

Of do you stop speaking out, please can.

C

We please just maintain the degree of civility in this room, both councilor carry-ons, please you had your turn and so. Okay, now counselor as a Georgia, was being thank.

I

You again, mr. mayor, first of all, I support this report. It's a good report, and the main benefit of the report for me was that we, at least in my recollection.

I

Sometimes we had motions coming before us to commemorate the situations around the world were in fact, other levels of government did not agree and we were put in the position we're under pressure that we should commemorate a certain event where, in fact, we would be going against other levels of government and I think this report basically eliminates those situations for us and basically leaves the decision-making of major events around the world in hands of the federal government where it belongs, and we would warn gladly follow in the footsteps of the federal government once they've made a decision on certain issues of this nature.

I

C

Any other people wishing to speak all right, then, if not we're ready to call the question all those in favor of the recommendation opposed carried unanimously. Thank you.

C

Item 27.7, let me just find that here, where do I, then with my agenda there, it is I, seven point: seven, which is the CNE Association permit for West channel water shows, and we have a deputy, a Judy Sutcliffe here with us this morning. Sutcliffe.

C

C

You are you participating the deputation as well.

M

C

Just if you could identify yourself, that's also a.

B

C

You Miss Mitchell, okay, so you have five minutes and we thank you for coming. Thank.

A

You mr. mayor I'm, a volunteer from the West End beaches, stakeholders, Association and Nona's website, which represents four clubs and about 5,000 recreational flat water users on the western beaches. Web site has been in operation since 2005, but three of the four clubs that are make that up are Argonaut rowing club, boulevard, club toronto sailing and canoe club and the sunny side.

A

Paddling Club of being there for over a century website was established twelve years ago to promote and protect the west end beaches area in Toronto for multiple flat water users of for sport and recreational use.

A

In 2005, collectively, governments spent 23 million dollars on a 600 meter break wall for the 2000 six World Dragon Boat Championships and in 2009 Council approved the Western beaches master plan, where use of the 4.4 million water, 4.4 kilometer waterway, from Ontario Place to the Humber River, be primarily flat water, an area that provides protected water for the quiet enjoyment of thousands of recreational users annually in advance of the 2015 Pan Am and Parapan Am Games that we welcomed.

A

We learned that water, ski wakeboard and other events were to be held in the West Channel from Ontario place. We offered our advice on the design of the van venue based on our knowledge of the site. We were advised after the fact that there was an intention to establish a legacy for water-ski on that site.

A

Now, I'm sure I, don't need to tell you, members of council and the executive committee that there is an incompatibility between high speed motor boats, traveling at 40 kilometers, an hour towing, a water skier and someone in a canoe or a rowing shell.

A

Nevertheless, once we understood from city staff that there needed to be some legacy, we accepted this and we worked with the representatives of the city in and the water ski Association, in good faith, to arrive at an agreed maximum number of days for motorized competition on that site and in July of 2014 council voted 38 to 0 for a motion that there be no more than 10 days of motorized competition annually. Commencing 2016 the summer of 2016 was a bit of disaster for flat water users.

A

As an 80 meter, dock was installed just east of the Ontario Place gap, obstructing free flow of flat water traffic to Ontario place and not removed for 39 days. Despite repeated requests, motorized events took place for the 8 days of the CNE, and details are provided in attachments to the notes that I have submitted.

A

We got agreement in the fall of 2016 that there would be consultation with web server for the next summer and web sim met with the CNE in November of 2016 and clearly described the ten-day maximum of the council resolution in January. 2017 CNE began negotiating an agreement with the city that would bypass the 10-day resolution restriction unbeknownst to website in June late July of 2017.

A

When the CNE was formally advised of the council resolution, they made protestations to the city and, ultimately, the acting city manager overruled in 2014 Council resolution and granted the CNE an exception on a one-time basis.

A

So councillors over 5,000 users are on this course over the course of a week. In addition to club members, countless others launched, stand-up paddleboards, kayaks, outrigger, canoes and other flat water vessels daily summer camps are run there, where youngsters learn how to row to sail and to paddle.

A

People with disabilities are freed from the strictures of their disability by being able to get safely onto the water in a sailboat, rowing boat, canoe or dragon boat, a 2006 government expenditures of twenty three million dollars for flat water sports venues, the 2009 western beaches, water, from course, master plan and the 2014 council resolution all support flat water use of the whole course, including the West Channel. But here we are again facing yet another challenge from the CNE to exempt their operations. From this ten maxximum I'll.

C

Have to I'll have to stop you there just ask you to wrap up. We just got a.

A

Couple more sentences: okay,.

C

It's good, no problem. Thank you.

A

See any has been supportive of us while they continued to press for their 22 days of motorized use. Our only argument is that's twice more than what we agreed to in good faith, and it is inconsistent with the long term planning for this site. We seek executive committee support in enforcing the 2014 council resolution. Thank you. Thank.

C

You myself so questions of the decadent from members outside of the committee of councillor perks. Thank you. Judy.

O

So just to go through the history a little bit when the breakwater was being rebuilt for Pan Am Games staff from the City of Toronto consulted with you about the long-term uses. Well,.

A

Not initially, it took quite some time until actually the submission was made in July of 2013 to City Council through the executive committee, that there was going to be a legacy use and that's when we learned about it. When the staff report came forward, so we had had been meeting with them through April, May and June of that year and nothing was said about a legacy and it wasn't until we saw it in the staff report that we then wrote a letter to Council and that's on the record as well from web.

A

So saying that we could not support the legacy use because it's incompatible with flat water use and.

O

Then, after that, you were invited into a process and.

A

So we then met with City Council, with city staff and with members of the water ski Association and negotiated that there should be an Altima, a 10-day maximum of motorized water sports taking place on that site. And so that's what we took forward to council. That's what went to the parks and Environment Committee! That's what councillors shine! Ask that that there be a that that be moved to discussion, and then it went forward to executive committee and council and then.

O

The very first year after the Pan Am Games that was violated the.

A

Very first year after the Pan Am Games, the the 80 meter dock was put in place. It covered the end, almost the entire worid. Of course, the flat water users were did not have access to that site and after even though we repeatedly request that it be moved moved to the side, it seemed like it went on for 39 days, and we have that all documented in the submission and then.

O

After that, there were further conversations with your organization to make sure it didn't happen. Again and again, you came to the conclusion of the 10-day use and city staff said they would support that. That's.

A

O

Then, the very next year again you found out that that wasn't being adhered to. That's.

A

O

Your organization has met again and including you know, and your membership includes the motorised user and again negotiate the sat down and came to the recommendation that it should be a 10-day use. Yes,.

A

O

And you said that there are a variety of de Kamp's seniors people with disabilities right there, 5,000 water users a week.

A

5,000, if there are members of our clubs and now yesterday at our web summiting, we were joined by Toronto with ventures who have 10,000 users and that's not taking into account all the casual users who actually arrive on the beach with their kitnik, their canoe or their stand-up paddleboard or their kayak, and decide to go for a paddle. Are.

O

There other flat water courses available to these users.

A

Not readily not that you can drive to the the only other flat water courses is actually on the island and that's usually programmed it's.

O

Already programmed and permitted yes.

A

O

And you had standing permits that you had correctly applied for for this summer, that you weren't able to get use of the water for that period. We.

A

Had a permit for the 4 August twenty-seventh for our annual regatta, that we've been holding for 30 years and then forgot a normally lasts from 8 a.m. to the permit. It was from 8 a.m. till 5 p.m. we were requested by the CNE to truncate that, because they had negotiated with the city without taking into account the permits that there would be a world wakeboard, Association championships held at the same time.

A

So ultimately we asked them for could we could we stop at 2 o'clock and and then you can carry on with your wakeboard championships and they said well they're angry about this. Can so we said: okay, how about 1:30 and so like. We, we kept giving up more and more time for our regatta so that they can hold their motorized and the.

O

Memberships of your organization, there they're citywide, they.

A

Are citywide and.

O

They represent a number of different groups, there's one organization of Boulevard Club, which is you know, admittedly more high-end, but some of the other clubs are just ordinary folks who can't afford a cottage and.

A

So here is from the Toronto salient canoe club and they're kind of like the Argonaut Club they're, not exactly well-off, and so during this summer, where we faced flooding in our clubs, we're going to have to face a substantial financial burden of trying to to put them back in order. It's gonna be a challenge.

O

In many of the club's, many of the events for kids, who can't afford to go to college or.

A

O

C

You thanks very much. Are there other questions from visiting councillors? I, don't see any in the room, so we'll move to questions of the decadents by members of the executive committee. Are there any questions? Okay?

C

Well, thank you both very much for your deputation and for answering the questions, and that would bring us then to questions of staff that would you Ocala SuperX. You have questions of staff yeah.

O

I'm not sure if this goes to parks are legal or city manager or who it goes to we, the CNE was in negotiations as they are routinely about their master land use agreement is that.

B

Through the mirror, that's correct.

O

That's correct, and in that agreement they were given certain rights about what they could do on the dry land at Maryland, Bell and coronation Park through.

B

The mirror that's correct, there's a number of different items of the Master Agreement we're one of many divisions, that's included in those negotiations, and it includes use of Maryland Bell Park coordination Park in a number of other areas and.

O

Nothing in the master agreement gave them additional time or gave them time on the water. That's not part of the master agreement. The.

B

Water use the waterway use, was not part of the master agreement in 2016. My understanding was, it was through a permit that was issued for its use and.

O

The C and E had asked for water used to be included in that matter. Master agreement and the City of Toronto them know.

B

Through the mirror, that's correct: it was at that time when we were renegotiating the master agreement of the 10-day requirement that was approved by council in 2014, came to bear okay.

O

And the it's park staff that support the Webster group that was just described there. You have staff who routinely attend that and and support that group and work out so that every all the different users can come to an accommodation, so that group a can run their event on a certain day and Group B and so on. That's a that's.

B

That's correct would be part staff, as well as a permitting staff who would be involved in that kind of negotiation right.

O

And the problem this year is that someone in parks and advertently agreed to give a permit to the acts. Chris bite council direction, correct.

B

That's and that's the reason for the report before executive committee today, okay,.

O

And I don't know if it's you or planning staff, we have an overall western waterfront master plan that, including is based on the principle of giving more access to the general public to the waterfront. We have a plan in there of building a public docks, a doweling. The the basis of it is to try to get more recreation rather than people simply observing. That's that's the the central premise of that plan: isn't it through the charity? Yes, that is correct. Thank you very much.

C

Thanks that councillor perks, other questions of staff for members of the executive committee at councillor, Thompson.

G

Just through you, mr. mayor to mr. Romanov, can you give us a little bit of overview on the history of this area? There was a time that recall where they were not many activities taking place there is that correct.

B

Through the merit there had, there certainly hasn't been the type of water show that CNE has been doing for the last few years. As noted in previous discussions, the improvements to the West channel, we're done as part of the Pan Am Games, which then provided you know a different type of opportunity for different types of events and.

G

So obviously we recognize there's been some impact to the community and what what has changed? It's the level of activities, the need for the CNE to have more events there and what's the impact been in the overall community through.

B

The through the mirror and certainly there's been ongoing use by rowing clubs and other recreational users of the West Channel right on through you know, even before the improvements were done for Pan Am. What's changed is the Sienese interest in or the CNAs interest in staging motorized water shows as part of the CNE a so that hasn't been included in our negotiations in the master agreement for some time and that's now come come forward because of the improvements that have been done to the West Channel.

G

Okay, thank you. Thank you for sparing thanks.

C

Cobster Thompson other questions of staff from oh, yes, some companies. Of course. Thank you thank.

F

You Mary um so I'm I'm just trying to understand it. This past January council gave authority to the city manager, Parks and Rec the Exhibition Place in the CNE a to negotiate the Master Agreement.

B

Through the Mara, I can only speak to the PNR pieces of it, but that's correct it's a it's. A agreement, that's negotiated through legal services on behalf of the city and many divisions that are involved. Okay,.

F

And then my understanding there's an appendix to the licensing agreement that looks after Marilyn, Bell Park and also the the water channel.

B

Through the Mara Marilyn Bell Park, yes, correct, not the water channel, not.

F

The water channel, okay and then so when it comes to the water channel, there's always been. Has it been an informal agreement that the CNE can use it for 10 days for events, or is that no.

B

The the water channel has always been permitted through the regular permitting office in NP F NAR. So if someone wanted to use the water channel, whether it was a non-motorized users such as a rowing club for regatta, those types of agreements would have to come in through our office to allow that use. Okay,.

F

And if the CNE a wants to use it, it's they need a permit, basically to shut down the channel for that's what their own use. Anyone.

B

That is using the channel would need the agreement through some means, either a permit or through Master Agreement or through a license agreement or some form that would give them that authority to use the channel. Okay.

F

All right, thank you. Thank you. Mary Tori, thanks.

C

Council Ainsley any more questions of staff. Okay. Well then, we can move to speakers and we'll start with councillor Burke's. Thank.

O

You very much mr. mayor and I want to begin by apologizing to the club's the community clubs, who not once not twice but three times, have negotiated with all the water users down there and work with city staff to come to agreements about how we're doing in good faith and had that good faith trampled on my apology. So the City of Toronto owes you better than that. A mistake was made. Someone who was unaware of the policy issued a permit and the city made a mistake.

O

However, some some voices in this conversation have been acting as if it wasn't a mistake that actually somebody had said you can go ahead and use it. No, we heard very clearly that the master agreement with the sea does not grant water access use. It's only for the the land uses. We I myself. I got a phone call in July from the acting deputy, acting city manager, saying counselor. We know that you do a lot of work supporting those local those clubs which are citywide in nature.

O

We have to tell you a city, employee, made a mistake and we're gonna have to actually overturn existing permits and existing uses to support the CNE. The distressing thing about this is the CNE because of the previous years, experience already knew already knew that they were limited to ten days. I am distressed, the CNE a and their partners at the exhibition place, went ahead and booked that event an incurred liability of the city.

O

Should we cancel it when they already knew what the limit was and that members of our community who put on camps for kids? You know my own daughter's years ago, when they were in high school, joined a dragonboat competition down there. We have very few opportunities for people who, like my family and many don't have a cottage or some other way of getting onto the water, have to rely on being able to permit these uses and do it through these clubs.

O

Thousands of people in the city of Toronto who we are trying to encourage to get out onto the water, thousands of them being inconvenienced by organizations affiliated with the City of Toronto, who knew better. It's not good enough now. I understand that the board of governors of Exhibition Place staff have been working with some members of this Executive Committee to bring a motion to just grant the CNE CNE. The access in the future forget about good-faith negotiations with other stakeholders.

O

Forget about the council's policy, forget about our long-term goals for the western waterfront forget about the kids and the seniors and the people with disability or trying to find somewhere to use the water just forget about it all and give it to them. I understand that motion is circulating. I want to ask you this member.

O

Isn't it worthwhile? Isn't it worthwhile to put this off for a month and have a chance to finally sit down and have a truly good faith negotiation where people who you know don't happen to put on a multi-million dollar event, but provide camps for kids, have an equal voice?

O

Finally, that this council will take seriously in determining how this very rare and precious resource there are not a lot of places where you can go and teach a kid how to paddle a canoe or get on it beyond a dragon boat team or where a senior can can safely learn how to sail. There are not many places where that can happen. This is one of them, and it's one of them that we as a City of Toronto are very carefully controlled and permitted through our Park staff for years and years and years.

O

The fact that the CNE suddenly wants to after I think it's 25 years of not running any motorized. Events wants to expand their footprint. Okay, we should have that conversation. Well, we shouldn't just slap down a motion which, frankly, the members of these clubs heard about this morning and override that long process we've had of trying to make sure that everybody has access to flat water in the City of Toronto, not just for profit events run at the CNE. Thank you very much. Thank.

C

You a councillor perks, councillor Layton, thank.

Q

You very much mr. mayor and through you to the committee I, have the the great honor of serving, as vice president of the CNE, a and I have for the last several years. I also have visited the sea it worked at. The CNE visited the CNA. My entire life I think that a return of the CNE to have a connection to the waterfront on which the the ground, the Exhibition Place grounds lie, is a good thing.

Q

I think it's a good thing say that, but with some reservations about the directions that we've heard, the executive committee are going with for two reasons, and this is the motion that that we expect to that is coming for two reasons. One is that we have not had an appropriate dialogue with the other watercourse users. There was no notice given that that, because of this report, we would be opening up the the agreement that was entered into in good faith and that we would be changing the conditions heaven.

Q

There was nothing in this report that suggested that that is something new. That is something that the watercourse users haven't, had the benefit of any notice for I. Think that that is a mistake in the process. I also have, and- and- and my second reason is- I- have complete faith- that I think we can find an alternative that will actually benefit all water users.

Q

In this case, I think everyone's gonna have to give a little bit of something up, but I think people will be able to walk away from the table with something more than they had when they arrived for the case of this of the Canadian National Exhibition I think they might. They may walk away with some agreement that they could have more time in the water course, but for the other water users.

Q

I think that they will have some certainty that, despite the 18-day Fair and the ten days of additional time, which is about half the paddling season, I'll point out, they will be able to ensure that their programming can remain the problem with moving a motion here that says, let's just lift the bend is it doesn't have two things one. It doesn't have any conditions associated with use for the other users. That means those 18 days are gone and there's no there's there's nothing. There's nothing compelling the CNE to negotiate any and any accommodation.

Q

There's those 18 days are gone and the additional 10 days of motorized water, sport and whatever load in and load out days that they have so we're really looking at narrowing the amount of time that any other water user has, and these are people that that have footprints down there as well and as the CNE does, and some history as well as, of course the CNE. Does. The other thing, though I fear from this motion coming today is it creates a lot of a bad will.

Q

If that's a word, it creates a lot of animosity between the parties and them to go and I think rather than come in and say, let's lift the lift, the restriction and yeah we'll we'll talk. As we say, let's talk and let's see if we can come to a compromise, because I think like deep down I, actually think we may be able to come up with some unique set of circumstances that everyone can have an opportunity to use the space and I see an employee now shaking their head about that. That might not be possible.

Q

I'm, not sure if that was directed in my comments, but I actually have faith that that can happen and I certainly hope that the executive committee would allow that processed it. Even if it's just for the next twenty, whatever days until your next meeting to to give an opportunity for the parties to get together and find some common ground Thank.

C

You councillor calculatin, so I think we've had the visiting councillors speak and we turn to members of the committee. Councillor Thompson.

G

Thank you very much. Mr. mayor Councillor Grimes has asked me to move a motion for him and I'm going to do that now. Perhaps our last staff, to put it on the screen, I've, listened and I've, had a chance to talk and certainly want to. Thank the residents are being here and I realized that there are challenges both with respect to their concerns as well as those of the CNE.

G

We have made some investment in the area with respect to the changes that have come from the South, the breakwall and a variety of other things that have been done there. There is now an opportunity for additional events to take place and the CNE has come forward and clearly through the process that was engaged in, they had there's a contravention with respect to our own policies.

G

A matter was introduced to resolve it as such in a timely way to permit activities at the CNE, and so there is a desire to consult but there's also a desire to in or that there are specific time frames incorporated in the policy directive as it now stands. One of the things that we are tasked with as part of our responsibility is to make changes and I realize that it's not always something that we're happy with.

G

But with this motion, there's an opportunity for the general manager of Parks Recreation forestry to consult with as part of the the Master Agreement process that will take place, there's an opportunity as well that the general manager, or will review the annual undertaking of the activities at the CNE and again to consult with the the affected users and in the residents as a whole. So I think and I try to ask the question before both of the staff and and others who are quite familiar with this issue.

G

In terms of how did we arrive at the number of days in terms of the total maximum number of days, I can't seem to get a straight answer with respect to that, and so, while the this particular facility was not utilized in a very active way prior to the investments, that's been made in making the necessary changes in the area.

G

The changes has now created an opportunity for the newly constituted CNE and so on, and some of the activities and I understand that the activities are well attended and so on, and so I think that there's an opportunity for us to continue to engage with respect to the different groups that are impacted by the the desire of the CNE to to have more events or motorboat type of events and competitions.

G

I think this is a good thing for the city I realize it has impact to the residents and users there, but I think that's something that can be worked out and that's an opportunity that has availed the the parties through this particular motion. I had hoped that we could have deferred this for some time, but apparently the appetite of that wasn't there and so I'm moving this motion on behalf of councilor Grimes.

C

Thank You councillor Thompson. Are there other members of the committee wishing to speak? I I do but I just was actually preparing a little motion here. I can give to do what I've done. There are no other people wishing to speak. Okay, I, just I. First of all, I want to begin by by saying that I do think.

C

In the circumstances this matter was not well handled, I, think and I just want to extend the same apology, because I think when we make a mistake, we should just say we're sorry that it happened the way it did because I think it. You know it's some kind of a Keystone Cops episode where we didn't do things so that we should have in the context of both an existing policy. Whether people know about it or not, I guess they should have, and that's fine I mean people make mistakes.

C

I want to go on to say that I I'm going to support the motion, but I'm gonna, move and I didn't quite finish. It there that there be a direction from this committee before the council meeting on October. The second that there be a meeting involving officials of the CNE, Exhibition Place, the city and other stakeholders as appropriate and I, can't name all of those we've had some in front of us today and I'm happy.

C

That should include other people, as as people wish, with a view to trying to see if there can be some something that goes because I'm concerned about the fact. This is a blanket exemption and that, if you take it as being then 18 days of the CNE plus 10 days, where there could be other people, that is quite a few days. I'd originally thought that what was happening here was. We were just saying to the CNE.

C

During your 18 days, you can put on shows which I wouldn't have been troubled by as much because the CNE and they don't- and we proved we've proven by what we've heard even this morning, that when they had events, the clock stopped, but I'm not gonna. Take that much longer.

C

When they had events they did, they were willing to negotiate even a partial use of the day, so they had the motor I show as it's called in the afternoon, and the Argonaut rowing club or whoever used it in the morning and so I think there could be something here that could be better than what is in this motion. But III can, as I will say, this I hope by originally there was just I understood. There was going to be this meeting, I think by putting it right into the resolution of the executive committee.

C

We require it to happen by directing that it should happen and I hope that it will be a meeting that happens in good faith and I will say this in the event that they can't reach some resolution. That is different than what is here. I will change my vote of the City Council I'm, saying that right now you know because I do think.

C

The blanket exemption is too much in the context of a shared resource that we have and it's precious and there's only kind of one of them in the place that it is I saw people out there just the other night when I was out at an event in the West, and so I will make that motion and Clark is probably very helpfully able to conclude it. I think more or less or I can help her, and then we can. We can deal with this. Just yeah. I can have your indulgence for one moment.

B

C

Okay, so I'm just gonna finalize the wordings I was just about finished. It.

C

O

C

What we've come up with there I think that probably accounts to Thompson. Is this? If you just have a look there at what's up there and see if that, since you're gonna treat it as a okay, all right so we'll add that then, as a friendly amendment- and we can vote then on the whole thing. Well, we have to still vote on the amendment or not.

E

Merit or either some question of clarification, I'm. Sorry, sir general manager.

G

C

Can put that into if you wish just to be perfectly fair, which general manager.

C

Any other questions of clarification and was there another amendment to this? Oh, yes, there's the amendment of councillor Thompson, so we'll incorporate these deal with these two with your indulgence and members together. So it's all one and then.

C

That this one is incorporated into councillor Thompson's motion, so it all just reads at one: if you're to screen okay, two screens so we're gonna call one question on the amendments and then on the item on the amendments taken together. All those in favor opposed carried and then on the item as amended all those in favor, Oh, scary, okay,.

C

So that brings us that order passed I guess we can get started. The next item is the Toronto ravine, Strategy 27.8, and it has a number of deficits. It has felt 14 deputies me I just asked of the deputies I apologize, because we will break for lunch at 12:30, and so we will will break up getting started on this. We might as well get started. I was just asked. I just do see a number of people and, of course, you're quite entitled to be heard. If you want but I see, sir.

C

For example, three people from trrs I see a couple from ven, a the blur east, a neighborhood association. If you can come up together, I am usually willing, with the concurrence of my colleagues, to allow sort of more than five minutes, but less than ten, just in the interest of keeping us moving along. If you have the same thing to say, but I'll leave it to you here listed here separately, so you're entitled to speak separately.

C

If you wish, and on that note we'll hear from the first two or three before lunch and the first deputy is Susan Aaron Susan Aaron here, okay, we'll move to number two, then Jason, Ramsay Brown, Toronto field, naturalist,.

C

Hello, mr. Ramsey Brown welcome. You have five minutes and please go ahead so.

R

Thank you for the opportunity to address you all today, the Toronto field naturalists have spent 94 years connecting people with nature in Toronto, helping them to understand, enjoy and protect our green spaces and the species that inhabit them from our opening. The first urban nature trail in Canada in 1931 to our ravine studies in the 70s to our work on the city's ravine strategy advisory group last. We've always believed that our ravines are the heart of Toronto's identity and inspire the souls of its citizens.

R

Tfn is very enthusiastic about the ravine strategy. Its principles represent a much needed vision for these remarkable natural areas, a vision that, in unambiguous language, identifies the preservation and restoration of nature as being of paramount importance, TFN implores, the executive committee to immediately empower the meaning and intent of the ravine strategy by amending motions or introducing committee recommendations that would strengthen Toronto's commitment to the preservation and restoration of nature in our ravines.

R

To this end, we propose three recommendations for your consideration: number one expedite and expand the development of management plans for environmentally significant areas in the face of the city's predicted population growth and the increased use of our ravines encouraged by the strategy. Three plans in the first five years with the remainder over a decade away, is wholly inadequate in ensuring the protection of these vital natural areas.

R

Recommendation to call for the immediate expansion of the city's community stewardship program and the integration of friends of groups in the city's stewardship plan. Stewardship is one of the few actions that supports all five guiding principles of the strategy, concurrently by applying investment directly to protection through activities that both celebrate and connect, people and partners to our natural heritage.

R

Recommendation three request: a plan to secure a per capita expenditure for ecological preservation and restoration through a stable and dedicated source of funding. The funding could be based on a model similar to the third party signed tax used to fund art and culture in the city.

R

Toronto has earned the title world-class City, but has done so based on criteria where vibrant nightlife and a major league sports franchise were enough to earn you that moniker, the very definition of world-class City, is changing in the future. We will be judged as such, not only by the height of our skyscrapers but the height of our trees, not just by the diversity of our festivals, but the diversity of our native species, not just by our built environment but by our natural environment, to retain our standing as a world-class City.

R

We must strive to be more than just a city within a park. We must become a city at one with our natural heritage. Thank you.

C

Thank you very much mr. Ramsey, Brown and I think. If you're willing there were some questions coming from councillor, Davis I.

B

Thank you very much for coming. I didn't hear you very clearly about your first recommendation, but I think it was about implementing the ESA plan. Could you expand on that yeah.

R

This the strategy says that management plan should be done for all the essays, the at the back of the strategy. It talks about projected timing and it basically says three done in the first five years, with the remainder done up to a decade later, with the amount of pressure that's going to be building on the ravines due to population increase, but also due to the strategy itself, encouraging the celebration of the ravines encouraging our connection with the ravines. That timetable is too slow for something so precious, okay,.

B

So what you're saying is the ravine strategy encourages greater use and celebration of the ravines, and yet the protection of those environmentally sensitive areas will not be complete. In other words, it's a bit out of sync yeah.

R

Our concern is certainly that, with the increased pressure, these areas become were threatened and at present, the amount of protection that they're afforded may be insignificant or may be in not reasonable for the amount of pressure that they may find themselves under. Okay,.

B

And you talked about a unique some unique revenue sources and you use the sign tax as.

R

Well, my understanding and I'm not well versed in all the ins and outs, but my understanding is that art and culture in the city has a dedicated as dedicated funding and the problem with a lot of the ecological protection and restoration work. That's been done. Is it's done very project-by-project? It's it's not necessarily given the same level of support that we give for things like art and culture.

R

A great example I've heard over time is it's much easier to sell through on some sort of novelty and feature that comes with restoration work, as opposed to selling through the restoration work itself, whether that's with philanthropic donation, or whether that's through funding from other organizations?

R

If we're going to protect these spaces, we really need to make sure that restoration and protection is considered something worth funding in and of itself. Okay,.

B

And what I found striking in this report were the recommendations that were attached to it that have to do with setting up. You know a philanthropic way to finance in, in particular, these nodes or special areas, gateways.

B

You're saying that kind of financing is not the kind of financing that we need for ongoing maintenance and preservation of the environmental to protect the environmentally sensitive areas. In.

R

Any kind of voluntary funding through philanthropic means, for example, it's really up to the motivations of the person giving the money what they're willing to invest than not. Yes, you on the experience that I've had and people have spoken to getting something to invest in a piece of art is easy. Getting them to invest in the planting of a whole bunch of wildflowers has butterfly habitat less easy. Our concern is that, if we're you know, philanthropic money would be wonderful if it helps to increase the overall quality of habitat.

R

The ravines and itting improves citizens interactions with these spaces, but unless there is actually a dedicated source of funding to protecting and restoring this philanthropic donations are not going to achieve that. Okay and.

B

I wondered if you had any comments on the the priority ranking matrix and whether or not tying our budgets through that methodology. Here, if you had any comments about that, I.

R

Think it's I think I have an overarching comment on that which is just I was a part of the ravine strategy advisory group and in the original draft. One of the first comments that we made was that the language about ecological protection and restoration we've used a lot of the right words and saying that you know it is the the reason for doing this. It is our primary for our primary reason, but throughout the document there were all these other interests that have the potential to influence it and to potentially damage the same things.

R

We're trying to protect if the protection of habitat and the protection of ecology in our ravines is the priority of the ravine strategy. Then it needs to be ranked as such. It needs to be given the funding and such it needs to be prioritized as such. That is not to say that there should not be other avenues explored. That is not to say a citizen should not be able to come down. There. We've been like that.

R

Gfn has been doing goddddd walks in toronto, ravines for 94 years or 90 years right, so we believe bringing people down and connecting people with nature helps them love these places and the people protect what they love, but that is only part of the equation in it actually has the teeth to protect nature with money there with actual resources with actual staff. It's gonna fall it's going to fall to other pressures and not be protected in the way the strategy says it should be protected. All.

C

Right that was the final question with Thank You councillor Davis, and thank you very much. It was grounds Brown I, just have one very quick item. I think we can deal with before the lunch break, and that is item 20 with your concurrence item 27 21 enslie, and he has a fairly straightforward motion that if he moves- and you accept it- we can then dispense with that item. Just have that off our list before we get back for lunch, not seriously I'm.

F

Sorry this is so. This is the motion before it. I've talked with the staff at Toronto, Fire, Services and also the chief information officer. This is just enhance the project they're doing on data data, use, I, think.

C

The motion is fairly straightforward: there any questions of the mover, okay, so moved I moved by Councillor any second, all those in favor opposed carried, and that would amend the item and then the item as amended all those in favor opposed carried. We will stand adjourned and we'll resume. Ladies and gentlemen, the deputations on the the ravine strategy at 1:30 this afternoon. Thank you very much.

C

Did you need that I just.

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