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From YouTube: Licensing and Standards Committee - May 4, 2018
Description
Licensing and Standards Committee, meeting 25, May 4, 2018
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=13044
Meeting Navigation:
0:11:48 - Call to order
Agenda Items:
0:15:07 - LS25.1 - Mitigating the Negative Impacts of Extreme Heat in Apartment Buildings (Ward All)
1:00:46 - LS25.2 - Review of Fraternity and Sorority Houses Exemption to Chapter 285, Rooming Houses (Ward All)
2:35:54 - LS25.3 - Review of Municipal Code Chapter 447, Fences (Ward All)
0:50:10 - LS25.4 - Amendments to Chapter 740, Street Vending - Portrait Artists (Ward All)
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B
Good
morning
everyone
we
do
have
quorum.
I
would
like
to
call
this
meeting
to
order
I'd
like
to
welcome
everyone
to
the
25th
meeting
of
the
licensing
standards
committee.
As
chair
of
the
committee,
I
would
like
to
extend
a
warm
welcome
to
members
of
the
public
and
those
watching
the
proceedings
online
or
TV.
As
usual,
I'd
like
to
remind
everyone
that
we
can
that
you
can
find
the
agenda
for
today's
meeting
in
follow
the
meeting
in
real-time
at
www.renttoowncenter.com.
B
B
Item
one
LS,
25.1,
mitigating
the
negative
impacts
of
extreme
heat
and
apartment
buildings.
We
have
one
speaker
so
that
item
is
Kim
is
going
to
be
held,
a
less
25.2
review
of
attorneys
and
sorority
houses,
exemption
to
chapter
285,
rooming
houses.
We
have
a
number
of
speakers.
That
item
is
being
hailed
as
one
LS
25.3
review,
Municipal
Code,
Chapter,
447
fences.
B
B
C
B
We'll
get
to
the
speaker's
list
and
then
we
have
we'll
deal
with
the
first
one,
alias
25.1
met
here
in
the
negative
impacts
of
extreme
heat
in
apartment
buildings,
and
we
have
one
speaker
in
that
Darrell
chunk
from
the
Greater
Toronto
pronunciation.
My
friends
before
I
get
to
that
is
on
behalf
of
the
vice-chair
councillor
Jim
Carey
journeys.
He
regrets
for
not
being
able
to
be
here
today.
He
had
some
sort
of
allergic
reaction
he's
in
the
hospital
right
now.
D
You
very
much
members
of
the
committee
staff.
As
you
know,
the
GTA
represents
the
owners
and
managers
of
about
a
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
apartment
units.
These
buildings
vary
considerably
in
shape
and
size.
The
one
common
element
is
they're,
mostly
forty-five
to
sixty
years
old,
but
our
engineers
and
our
facilities
staff
know
these
buildings
well
and
I'm
here
to
offer
any
sort
of
technical
assistance
you
may
need
to
in
access
to
our
mechanical
systems
as
part
of
us
as
part
of
your
interdivisional
working
group.
D
Additionally,
the
GTA
is
here
to
help
educate
building
owners
regarding
the
heat
requirements.
I
know
you're,
proposing
some
changes
to
the
bylaw
and
I
know.
There
was
some
issues
this
past
September.
Unfortunately,
most
of
our
building
staff
are
kind
of
hardwired
after
years
and
years
of
setting
the
September
15th
date
in
their
minds
that
they
ramp
up
and
they
plan
and
schedule
maintenance
with
service
providers,
mechanical
systems
providers
and
so
on,
and
that's
done
months,
maybe
a
year
in
advance,
and
so
things
are
scheduled
and
they
don't
have.
D
They
should
have
more
flexibility
in
terms
of
when
things
go
on
and
off,
but
they're
kind
of
they
just
do
it
the
same
way
every
year
and
this
year
showed
that
a
little
more
education
is
required
and
and
here
to
offer
our
assistance
as
an
association
of
private
sector
owners
to
make
sure
the
right
messaging
gets
out.
Additionally,
we
will
continue
to
work
with
Toronto
Public
Health
on
their
education
campaigns.
We
did
so
last
year
and
we're
continuing
this
year,
and
we
are
just
basically
here
to
say
whatever
you
need.
Let
us
know.
Thank
you.
D
B
E
D
E
E
D
In
most
cases,
that's
exactly
what
Toronto
Public
Health
reported
out
in
May
of
last
year,
they
recommended
and
we're
working
with
them
to
try
to
ensure
that
most
buildings,
if
not
all
buildings,
have
such
a
facility
on
site,
if
not
part,
of
Toronto
Public
Health's
campaign.
Their
current
campaign
is
identifying
to
all
citizens
of
the
city
where
the
nearest
cooling
Relief
Center
is,
but
yes,
but
also
the
the
buildings
are
old.
D
F
F
First
help
me
understand
what
kind
of
discretion
does
that
give
the
landlord
I
understand
that
if
it's
war
mode,
you
know
you
shouldn't
have
to
turn
on
the
heat,
but
with
the
weather,
the
way
we
have
and
encounter
the
weather
is
warm
one
day
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
it's
cold
the
next
day.
So
how
are
you
as
a
landlord?
How
do
you
deal
with
that
provision?
That
says
you
have
to
have
the
heat
on
so.
D
Yeah,
it's
a
bit
more
complicated
than
just
turning
on
and
off
a
switch.
You
know
for
a
very
large
building,
that's
hydronic,
ly
heated
and
that's
pumped
water
through
coils.
It
takes
about
three
days
to
ramp
up
the
heat
in
that
water
system
to
fill
the
whole
building.
So
you
kind
of
lead
up
to
that.
So
you
can't
just
turn
it
on
today
and
expect
it
to
be
hot
tomorrow
or
later
today.
It
doesn't
work
like
that.
There
is
some
lead
time
and
that
varies
from
building
to
building.
D
D
F
B
Any
other
questions,
if
not
I,
think
that
I
have
one.
This
will
change
for
you.
The
report
recommends
that
a
star
develop
an
inter
divisional
working
group
to
identify
the
strategies
to
address
excessive
indoor
temperature,
especially
given
day,
of
course,
the
summer
months,
and
how
does
your
current
apartment
association
feel
about
that?
This
working
group
yeah.
D
B
B
G
Thank
you
so
last
Friday
I
counseled.
It
was
a
members
motion
that
was
presented
moved
by
councillor,
Matt,
Lowe
and
second
by
myself,
so
the
staff
know,
but
that
recommendation
and
I
guess
that
just
complements
your
report
correct
and
it's
authorizing
the
Medical
Officer
health,
in
consultation
with
executive
director
to
establish
heat
alert
days,
correct
so
you're.
Okay,
like
with
this
motion
being
passed
today
as
part
of
this
report
to
staff.
C
C
This
motion
does
add
an
additional
notion
of
a
heat
alert
day,
which
is
different
than
the
current
extreme
heat
I'll,
be
meeting
with
the
chief
medical
officer
of
Health
to
figure
out
what
that
looks
like,
but
it
is
intended
to
the
same
purpose
is
to
make
sure
landlords
know
that
they
have
that
flexibility.
When
the
temperatures
change
the
public
health.
G
This
year
correct,
so
maybe
we
can
have
Public
Health,
just
comment
sure
through
the
chair
and
support.
What
was
just
explained
that
it
does
compliment
the
work,
that's
been
done
and
it
allows
us
through
the
interdisciplinary
work
group,
as
well
as
the
the
two
leads,
the
general
matters
of
medical
officer
of
Health,
to
deal
with
the
challenges
that
happen
at
the
beginning
and
the
end
of
the
season
that
are
difficult
to
manage,
as
we
need
to
balance
the
need
for
obviously,
health
and
safety,
but
for
feasibility
and
clarity
of
communications.
G
We
need
to
have
to
do
some
work
with
the
folks
in
Darryl,
Chung's
Association,
to
make
sure
it's
clear,
and
we
appreciate
the
identification
of
this
from
Council
as
an
important
issue,
but
we
do
need
to
work
through
how
to
make
sure
all
those
messages
come
across
clearly
and
we'll
be
doing
that
over
the
course
of
this
next
few
weeks
and
over
the
summer.
Okay,
thank
you.
So
another
question
I
have
is
recommendation.
1B
require
that
on
you,
apartment
buildings
have
air
conditioning
at
add
measures,
measures
that
enable
positive,
a
passive
cooling.
G
Circulated
to
the
Planning
Department,
so
any
new
development
applications
that
come
in
that
they
ensure,
in
fact,
that
there
is
air
conditioning
included
in
their
development
application,
because
I
had
an
application
just
recently,
where
there's
no
air
conditioning
being
proposed-
and
this
is
a
new
building.
So
is
this
you're
gonna
be
passed
on
to
our
planning
staff
as
well
that
review
all
these
new
applications
through.
H
H
It's
to
look
at
the
feasibility
of
having
such
a
requirement
and
then
we
would
report
back
to
the
tenant
issues
committee
on
the
findings
of
the
working
group
and
recommendations
of
perhaps
changes
that
could
be
enacted
either
through
our
own
bylaws
or
perhaps
there
needs
to
be
changes
to
municipal
planning,
act
or
site
plan
approval
processes
for
new
construction.
So
it's
only
to
report
back
on
the
feasibility
of
having
these
types
of
measures
in
yeah.
G
H
H
Part
of
this
work
through
the
chair
of
the
councillor
is:
we
have
to
look
at
what
legislative
authority
the
misspelled
II
may
have
for
dealing
with
something
like
that.
So
the
building
code
act,
for
instance,
regulates
how
new
buildings
are
to
be
constructed
and
they
establish
the
minimum
standards.
So
we'd
have
to
review
with
legal.
If,
in
fact,
the
city
has
the
authority
to
mandate
air
conditioning
and
new
construction,
and
if
we
did
what
that
would
look
like.
Thank.
G
H
Through
the
chair
to
councilor
to
bear
maker,
yes,
it's
our
opinion
and
recommendation
that
mandating
air-conditioning
in
all
existing
apartment.
Buildings
is
not
feasible
for
several
reasons:
one
the
electrical
infrastructure,
both
on
the
private
side
and
on
the
missile
side.
We
don't
believe
especially
on
the
private
side,
doesn't
have
the
capacity
to
handle
that
additional
electrical
load.
Then
that
would
late
buries
substantial
upgrades
and
costs
required
for
that
work
alone.
H
The
ultimate
impact
on
the
overall
demands
for
the
electrical
network
in
January
in
capacity
and
greenhouse
gas
emissions,
how
that
would
be
counter
to
our
goals
and
the
city's
goals.
In
that
regard,
the
costs
of
doing
those
upgrades
would
be
passed
on
directly
to
tenants
as
the
current
legislation
exists
and
that
would
be
impacted
for
debility
issues,
which
we
understand
is
of
significant
concern
in
the
city.
H
E
H
E
Then,
at
one
level,
if
we
were
to
retrofit
the
existing
housing
apartment
stock,
that
might
take
us
fifty
to
a
hundred
years,
even
if
it
was
an
advisable
thing
to
do
because
they
have
to
retrofit
the
whole
building
envelope.
The
electrical
system
do
all
sorts
of
things
that
maybe
are
almost
physically
impossible,
but
maybe
over
the
next
hundred
years
we
could
see
a
retrofit
of
some
of
those
buildings.
H
Yes,
the
the
time
taken
to
do
the
retrofit
when
there's
thirty
five
hundred
approximately
thirty
five
hundred
buildings
in
the
city
that
this
would
impact
would
be
very
extensive.
We
do
know
from
our
apartment
building
registry
data
data
that
83
percent
of
those
buildings.
Approximately
thirty-five
hundred
buildings
have
hot
water
heating
systems,
so
to
air-condition
them
would
require
a
significant
number
of
those
buildings
to
have
to
install
ductwork.
H
E
And
three
three
mr.
chair,
you're,
creating
I,
believe
it's
an
inter
divisional
working
group.
Is
that
correct
or
had
a
working
group
where
you
could
have
perhaps
like
who
you
represent
Darryl
but
the
building
owners,
Apartment
Association
and
people
from
acorn
on
that
committee,
sitting
side
by
side
with
you
or
do
you
prefer
a
more
say,
exclusive
club
of
just
our
staff
and
then
you
would
bring
in
the
building
owners
and
acorn
and
tenant
reps
and
other
people
later
on?
Or
would
you
like
them
there
at
the
working
group
with
you
through.
H
The
chair
to
councillor
to
bear
maker
I
think
we're
proposing
when
we
would
use
the
word
inter
divisional
staff
working
group.
That
was
to
deal
perhaps
with
some
of
the
complexities
of
legal
authorities
and
permissions
we
have,
but
we
definitely
would
be
inclusive.
Engaging
with
our
partners,
be
the
GTA,
a
Federation
of
rental
properties,
of
Ontario,
F,
MTA,
ACORN
and
others
that
have
that
expertise
and
can
bring
to
us.
So
we
can
have
a
complete
understanding
of
the
issues
and
its
possible
solutions
and
engaging
with
everybody.
So.
E
H
E
I
can
clarify
the
to
me,
there's
a
difference
between
say,
inviting
people
into
a
public
meeting
once
to
say
what
are
your
thoughts
versus
a
working
group
that
says
we're
going
to
meet
once
a
month
for
the
next
six
months
and
get
into
technical
issues
and
exchange
ideas.
So
are
we
having
a
working
group
where
people
sit
there
for
six
months
together
or
a
year
together,
or
are
we
just
going
to
host
a
public
meeting
or
two
where
owners
and
tenants
and
everybody
else
can
just
show
up
and
tell
you
what
they
think?
Mr.
C
Chair
I
think
there's
twofold
here,
deputy
mayor
to
bear
maker.
What
we're
talking
about
in
rec
one
is
actually
to
deal
with
the
issue
of
heat
more
generally,
more
broadly,
that's
why
it
includes
the
chief
resilience
officer,
medic
loss,
medical
officer
of
health,
energy,
environment
division.
So
we
want
to
have
an
inter
divisional
group
solely
that
looks
at
eight
the
legal
authorities,
but
also
fully
what
the
city
might
be
able
to
do
to
address
the
issue
of
maximum
heats
and
indoor
temperatures.
C
Once
we've
gotten
through
that
process,
then
it'll
be
a
determination
of
what
would
be
the
next
steps,
whether
or
not
that
requires
a
full
working
group
or
with
external
parties,
or
whether
we
do
that
through
a
comprehensive
consultation
process.
So
this
is
step
one
first
for
us
to
understand
the
late,
the
full
landscape
of
what
we
were
asked
to
look
at,
bearing
in
mind
that
rec
1,
a
B
and
C,
were
inputs
directly
from
the
tenant
issues
committee.
So
we
do
have
those
other
venues
that
we
use
to
engage.
C
So
this
one
is
for
us
to
figure
this
out
with
all
those
pieces
that
are
internal
to
the
city
and
then
talk
about
what
a
consultation
plan
looks
like,
and
it
may
include
a
working
group
as
we
go
forward
and
marry
this
with
the
work
that
public
health
is
also
doing
on
on
maximum
heats,
so
there's
kind
of
a
two-step
ER
to
this.
This
is
a
complex
issue,
we'll
be
working
on
for
a
while
with
a
lot
of
people.
Thank.
H
B
Will
this
ever
happen
and
the
deputy
mayor
was
talking
about
perhaps
hundred
years,
and
can
we
do
it
a
little
bit
earlier
than
that
in
terms
of
retrofit
in
those
buildings,
because
that's
actually
where,
when
we
listen
carefully
from
our
corn
and
I'm
listening
from
my
constituents
all
the
time,
they
are
the
ones
who
are
real
suffering
out
there.
So
I
really
need
some
clarification
in
terms
of
moving
forward,
what
kind
of
allocation
of
funding
and
whatever
else
we
are
getting.
That
kind
of
conversation.
H
Through
to
the
chair,
I
think
the
before
we
can
anticipate
the
timeline
to
implement
that
we
have
to
understand
what
ultimately
would
be
the
recommendations
of
implementing
it,
because
you
know,
having
mandating
air-conditioning
retrofits
to
existing
buildings
may
not
be
the
only
solution.
There
can
be
other
solutions
that
we
may
recommend
that
maybe
are
more
feasible,
more
practical
and
can
be
implemented
in
a
shorter
time
frame,
cooling
rooms,
passive
shading,
other
measures,
so
we
have
to
evaluate,
as
executive
director
cook
identified,
it's
a
complex
issue.
H
That's
why
we're
not
it's
not
a
simple
silver
bullet,
we'll
fix
everything
here,
put
your
conditioning
in
and
everybody
will
be
work.
So
it's
difficult
to
give
that
definitive.
Answer
of
what
the
timeline
is.
So
that's
why
we're
saying
let
us
go
away.
Do
the
work
come
back
with
recommendations
on
the
feasibility
things,
including
what
would
be
the
timeline
to
implement
those
condemned.
B
One
as
a
formal
member
of
the
community
has
involved,
there
were
recommendations
to
prioritize
units
where
tenants
had
an
opportunity
to
put
air
conditioning
units
within
their
windows,
but
something
that
complies
with
a
with
the
existing
calls.
Do
you
know
where
that's
falling
things
falling
apart
or
falling
into
place
to
accommodate
that
with.
H
Respect
to
the
tenants
ability
to
install
their
own
air
conditioning
units
in
their
units,
whether
they're,
window-mounted
units
or
standalone
units,
that's
between
the
landlord
and
the
tenant
says
we
don't
get
involved
in
that.
We
do
know
that
quite
a
few
buildings
throughout
the
city
do
have
them
installed.
So
I
can't
really
address
fully
the
questionnaire
event,
but
wouldn't.
B
H
B
Have
my
another
question
in
that
I'm
going
to
direct
I
went
to
the
Toronto
Public
Health
and
it's
been
noted
in
the
past
that
the
maximum
indoor
temperature
standards
for
all
apartment
buildings
are
not
being
recommended
and
I
believe
that
comment
came
from
the
M
from
the
Toronto
Public
Health?
Why
is
it?
What
are
the
reasons
for
that?
Would
you
would
you
please
clarify
that
sure.
B
G
So
through
the
chair,
the
reason
that
we,
what
we
were
asked
to
do,
was
figure
out
what
is
the
maximum
temperature.
So
we
knew
what
to
aim
for.
But
the
feasibility
of
implementing
that
recommendation
is
one
that
we
came
to
a
conclusion
with
MLS
staff
and
along
with
landlords
and
all
the
other
stakeholders,
and
the
challenge
that
was
described
earlier
by
MLS
staff
is
the
same
to
reach
that
goal.
G
There
are
huge
feasibility
issues
for
landlords
that
have
an
effect
on
tenants
that
could
displace
tennis
that
have
potential
for
a
great
challenge
of
the
electrical
grid
and
that
really
caused
us
to
step
back
and
look
at
the
whole
picture.
That's
why
there's
a
recommendation
to
look
at
the
new,
builds
and
understand
the
feasibility
of
doing
that?
G
It
is
certainly
a
market
demand,
but
then
to
take
all
the
existing
stock
and
look
at
short-term
solutions,
as
we
mentioned,
such
as
a
cooling
room
using
the
new
heat
relief
network
that
we're
gonna
be
promoting
throughout
the
city,
where
we
have
all
public
space
available
searchable
on
a
website
this
year
for
the
first
time
and
also
to
work
with
the
landlord
Association,
see.
If
there's
any
other
solutions,
we
haven't
thought
of
as
clearly
straight
going
to
air-conditioning.
G
It
has
a
lot
of
unintended
consequences,
so
it
wasn't
that
we
didn't
recommend
a
temperature
and
then
we
didn't
recognize
his
risk.
But
it's
a
different
question
to
figure
out
how
to
make
that
feasible
in
the
existing
stock,
and
it
has
to
be
done
in
partnership,
and
we
know
this
interest
in
urgency
around
this
issue.
But
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we
have
not
created
any
unintended
consequences,
the
worst
of
which
we'd
be
displacing
residents.
B
B
B
G
I
understand
I
understand
that
the
older
buildings,
that's
gonna,
be
a
little
difficult.
You
know
some
of
the
older
older
buildings
which
I
have
in
my
ward
and
concert
a
bear
maker.
You
I
think
we
all
have
them
right,
but
in
the
newer
buildings,
when
applications
are
coming
forward,
I
don't
think
there
should
be
any
reason
at
all.
G
So
I
think
that
that's
important
that
we
do
a
request
to
provincial
government
to
amend
the
Building
Code
and
we
look
at
that
and
that
be
part
of
the
working
group,
but
I
think
that
I
don't
even
think
that
that
should
even
be
considered
by
the
working
group,
but
I
think
that
they
would
support
it.
I
think
we
should
be
doing
it
and
we
should
be
requesting
the
provincial
government
to
amend
the
Building
Code
I.
Think
that's
a
given
I,
don't
think
that
there's
any
argument
or
debate
from
anyone
on
that
issue.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
mister
chair,
no
I,
certainly
support
councillor
nunzio's
motion
and
the
staff
recommendations
here.
I
think
every
councillor
deals
with
this
issue
every
year
and
it's
a
reality
of
how
complicated
mother
nature
is
about
living
in
apartment
is,
we
think,
there's
a
simple
solution
or
we
can
wave
a
magic
wand
and
put
an
air
conditioner
in
every
unit.
E
Not,
and
then
there
won't
be
any
problem
anymore,
but
the
reality
is
it's
just
not
possible,
physically
and
from
the
electrical
supply
system,
and
even
if
we
could
do
that,
it
wouldn't
work,
because
the
building's
they
built
50
and
60
years
ago
aren't
that
insulated.
Aren't
that
energy-efficient.
So
you
can
be
blasting
your
air
conditioner
and
it
might
bring
the
temperature
down
by
one
degrees,
probably
not
even
noticeable
to
most
people.
So
I
think
this
will
be
a
challenge
I.
Think
of
this
spring
we
had
I'm
sure
every
office
was
inundated
by
very
angry
constituents.
E
When
we
had
the
last
ice
storm
in
April,
we
had
sidewalks
and
lawns,
and
everything
covered
with
two
inches
of
solid
ice
I
couldn't
shovel
my
driveway
or
sidewalk
that
in
the
day
of
the
ice
storm
we
had
people
very
angry,
saying
and
the
fact
the
mayor's
office
intervened
to
get
our
Works
Department
to
go
and
rehire
some
some
sidewalk
plows
too
in
April
come
and
shovel
snow,
seven
days
later
on,
April
22nd.
What
were
we
doing?
E
We
like
I,
was
out
at
a
recycling
day
on
on
Environment
Day
people
were
getting
sunburns
because
it
was
so
sunny
and
it
was
so
hot.
So
I
can
understand
why,
in
an
old
building,
if
on
one
Sunday
you're
turning
up
the
heat
to
make
sure
people
are
still
warm
and
comfortable
that
seven
days
later
or
the
next
three
days
later,
you've
got
people
calling
the
landlord
complaining
that
it's
too
hot
and
the
response
is
well.
We
turned
up
the
heat
three
days
ago
because
there
was
an
ice
storm.
E
Three
days
later,
there's
a
heat
wave
from
the
temperatures
up
to
20
degrees
and
now
you're
complaining
that
it's
too
hot.
So
that's
an
unfortunate
reality.
That's
always
going
to
be
with
us
as
they
call
them
on
those
shoulder
seasons,
both
sometimes
the
spring
sometimes
gets
too
hot
too
fast,
sometimes
in
the
fall,
it
stays
too
cold
too
warm
too
long.
And
of
course
we
tell
people
not
to
open
their
windows.
E
In
fact,
it's
a
provincial
law
that
says
we
don't
want
people
opening
windows
on
the
16th
floor,
the
20th
floor
of
a
building
because,
unfortunately,
children
fall
out
of
them
sometimes
so
we
actually
have
safeguards
in
place
that
stop
you
from
opening
your
window.
So
a
lot
of
people
will
say:
well
can't
you
just
let
me
open
the
window
at
least
I
can
get
a
breeze
and
it's
actually
cooler
outside
my
sixteenth
floor
window
than
it
is
in
my
my
unit
and
our
response
is
no.
E
You
can't,
because,
even
if
you
don't
have
children,
we
can't
go
into
every
unit
and
inspect
every
unit
to
figure
out
who's
allowed
to
open
a
window
and
who's.
Not
so
the
provincial
government
and
all
of
us
collectively
have
decided
windows
should
not
be
opened,
or
only
open,
a
very
small
amount
to
make
sure
that
children
don't
fall
out
of
them
or
p-n
and
people
don't
fall
out
of
them
and
and
hurt
themselves
so
I
certainly
support
the
report.
I'll
look
forward
to
how
we
deal
with
the
public.
E
This
and
I
have
to
see
I
tip
my
hat
to
our
staff
and
to
our
executive
director,
certainly
that
this
is
now
my
14th
year
in
office.
My
eighth
year
on
this
committee,
the
I'll
run
again.
The
evolution
of
public
consultation,
I
think
has
improved
dramatically
I,
my
preference
and
I'll
just
say
it
to
staff
now
is
as
they're
thinking
through
their
their
process.
I
think
a
working
group,
the
working
group
model
is
usually
more
successful
than
the
public
consultation
model.
E
When
you
get
stakeholders
from
all
parts
of
the
spectrum
from
the
tenants
associations
from
the
landlord
associations
from
the
building
owners
associations
from
the
condo
people,
you
get
them
all
together.
You
let
them
work
together
for
six
months
or
even
a
year.
They
come
out
with
pretty
good
advice.
E
E
F
I
will
make
some
just
very
brief
comments.
First
of
all,
I
I
will
support
counselor
in
Indiana's
motion.
I
do
have
some
some
reservations
simply
because
I
mean
we
can
come
up
with
a
multitude
of
initiatives
that
are
luxury
items
that
increase
the
cost
of
housing.
The
moment
the
provincial
government
approves
something
like
this
automatically
increases
the
cost
of
affordable
housing,
and
so
there
is
a
conflict
between
trying
to
provide
affordable
housing.
Keeping
caused
all
right,
I
would
be.
F
B
B
B
Can
circle
Janice
and
good
to
have
you
back
in
and
actually
I'm
going
to
be
needing
your
assistance
because
they
live
in
sorry
I'll
be
I'll,
be
asking
you
to
take
the
chair
and
hopefully
we'll
be
able
to
speak
by
then
thank
you
and
the
other
requests
that
I
have
a
request
and
a
special
request
from
and
I'm
going
to
ask
for
the
indulgence
of
the
committee.
We
can
move
item
number
four
at
this
point
at
this.
B
At
this
point
is
there
is
only
one
speaker
and-
and
there
is
some
health
issues
there
so
I'm
going
to
move,
we
can
chance
with
indulgence
or
the
public.
If
we
can
just
move
this
item
and
to
deal
with
it
now,
it's
only
one
speaker,
I,
don't
know
it
just
there
is
one
speaker
to
allow
the
speaker
to
speak
and
then
with
great
all
those
in
favor
against.
Thank
you,
mr.
Patrick
James.
We
are
dealing
with
item
number
four
amendments
to
chapter
7
for
a
street
vending
portrayed
artists.
B
J
My
agenda
relates
to
the
artist
permits
for
downtown
Toronto
and
what
I'm
trying
to
do
is
get
the
agenda
fixed
so
that
through
ls
25.4,
the
current
permit
system
under
Chapter,
seven,
four
zero
gets
amended
into
a
format.
That's
similar
to
a
busker
permit
right
now
it's
a
vendor
permit,
but
the
situation
with
that
is
it's
unworkable.
So
what
happened
was
basically
it's
four
phases
back
in
the
1990s.
J
You
probably
remember
all
the
artists
that
work
downtown
by
the
Eaton
Center
and
they're
around
thirty
artists
or
so-
and
this
was
a
system
that
didn't
have
permits
at
the
time.
But
each
year
the
artists
would
operate
in
the
public
areas
downtown
drawing
people's
portraits
and
caricatures
and
in
the
mid-1990s
City
Hall
intervened
to
apply
the
first
permit
system
for
the
artists
so
that
there
would
be
an
official
recognition
of
their
presence
downtown.
J
So
this
had
some
problems
because
there
was
large
renovation
works,
going
on
downtown
by
the
in-center,
so
the
first
permit
system
was
basically
nullified
because
it
was
situated
by
locations
the
permits.
So
it
wasn't
like
a
free
system
where
artists
could
set
up
anywhere.
They
had
to
set
up
downtown
by
the
Eaton
Center
so
with
the
construction
activities
I
dunno,
if
everybody's
listening
to
this,
because
it's
kind
of
important,
if
I,
could
have
the
attention.
J
So
what
happened
with
the
renovations
at
the
Eaton,
Center
and
Yonge
and
Dundas,
the
artists
were
scattered
to
other
areas
of
Toronto
downtown
Toronto.
So
a
new
permit
system
came
up
and
basically
that
didn't
work
as
well,
because
the
locations
were
all
the
other
artists
were
working
were
not
conducive
to
being
profitable.
J
So
at
this
time,
I
started
to
reach
out
to
city
staff
and
the
LLC
to
try
and
redeem
the
situation
and
bring
bring
forth
a
new
system
so
that
the
artist
would
come
back
and
everybody
would
benefit
again.
So
for
the
past
three
years,
I've
been
struggling
to
try
and
get
this
new
permit
system
adopted,
so
that
artists
would
start
coming
back
and
everybody
would
be
happy
so
with
this
now,
our
last
25.4.
J
It's
like
a
temporary
fix
and
it's
part
of
my
overall
idea
that
two
stage
strategies
so
that
we
can
go
onto
a
bigger
system
where
potentially
artists
would
bring
in
around
ten
thousand
dollars
a
year
in
generative
permit
revenue.
If
my
idea
is
successfully
put
through
so
this,
this
temporary
fix.
It's
simply
making
the
current
artists
vendor
permit
into
a
Bhaskar
permit.
So
it
would
have
the
advantage
of
being
as
Angie.
Please
wrap
up.
G
J
So
what
that
will
do
is
right
now,
there's
no
artist
left
because
it
was
an
expensive
permit
and
the
current
locations
are
signed
for
artists
they're
unworkable.
So
what
this
will
do
is
it's
gonna
remedy
that
situation.
Artists,
have
the
flexibility
to
work
anywhere,
they
want
and
they
can
afford
the
permits.
So
they'll
start
coming
back,
and
this
will
go
towards
the
bigger
the
bigger
next
stage,
which
will
be
me
trying
to
elevate
a
system
like
they
have
in
Montreal.
J
B
Thank
you
any
other
questions,
if
not
I
think
you're
mr.
James
for
coming
down,
and
thank
you
for
your
tremendous
input
in
that
speak
to
it.
Thanks
questions
to
stop
it
speakers,
if
not,
is
I'm
going
to
move
the
recommendations
that
are
before
us.
First
and
foremost,
I
want
to
thank
mr.
Patrick
James
for
bringing
something
that's
very
close
to
his
card
to
to
this
committee,
as
well
as
through
him.
I
was
able
to
bring
this
to
City
Council.
B
We
have
done
wonders
something
to
be
extremely
proud
and,
as
chair
of
this
community
I
take
Nara
pride
and
and
thanks
to
city
staff
and
for
helping
out
and
to
bring
something
new
to
to
our
art
community.
So
the
recommendations
I
think
speaks
to
to
add,
and
for
that
reason
good
luck,
my
friend
just
going
and
joy
and
and
do
what's
also
close
to
her
thanks.
So
much
and
I'm
moving
the
recommendations
of
the
report.
Thank
you.
B
K
B
K
K
I
did
write
a
letter
to
Mara
Torre
in
June
of
last
year,
when
this
item
was
first
put
forward
and
I
understand
it's
not
before
you,
I
have
copies
available
for
people
and
also
one
of
my
neighbors,
who
is
a
medical
doctor
who
also
wrote
a
very
excellent
letter.
I
have
copies
of
that
as
well.
I
just
like
to
take
you
through
a
few
of
the
points.
K
K
The
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
does
nothing
and
has
no
authority
over
them,
even
though
they
host
parties
where
people
pay
money
to
come
in
and
drink
unlimited
amounts
of
alcohol.
Those
parties
really
are
something
to
see
if
you've,
never
if
you've,
never
thinking,
Artie's
really
are
quite
something
to
behold.
They
they're
advertised
to
the
public,
first
of
all,
through
social
media,
there's
no
security
whatsoever.
K
As
you
know,
at
the
drinking
age
in
this
province
is
19,
but
the
age
of
admission
to
university
is
basically
18.
So
that's
really
the
crux
of
the
problem.
You
have
we.
We
live
up
the
street
from
the
Madison
pub,
which
is
one
of
the
largest
pubs
in
the
city,
and
we
really
have
no
complaints
about
the
Madison.
They
have
security,
they
do
what
you
would
expect
to
keep
their
license.
They
serve
somebody
underage
they
they
go
to
business.
K
You
just
have
to
go
to
two
doors
off
or
three
doors
up
to
go
into
a
completely
anything-goes
environment,
and
in
my
experience
and
through
my
observations
and
through
my
discussions,
it's
clear
to
me
that
that
is
an
environment
that
is
not
safe,
starting
primarily
and
ironically,
with
the
people
who
live
in
those
buildings
and
then
from
there.
It's
not
safe
for
the
people
who
come
in
on
mass
at
a
moment's
notice
through
overs
that
line
up
all
up
and
down
the
street,
and
then
it's
not
safe
for
the
community
members
I
have
gone
out.
K
K
One
of
the
very,
very
incremental
recommendations
in
this
proposal
is
that
they
be
provided
they
be
required
to
provide
contact,
information
well
and
and
they're
opposed
to
that.
And
yet,
when
we
were
having
consultations,
they
said
well,
of
course,
we'd
be
happy
to
provide
your
contact
information,
but
when
it
comes
to
this
proposal,
my
understanding
is
they're
against
that.
That's
that's
really
the
that
will.
That
will
be
interesting
to
see
when
somebody
puts
her
name
down
as
the
contact
person
as
a
responsible
person
in
these
houses.
K
As
I
said,
I've
gone
to
these
houses
when
the
parties
are
going
on
it's
a
very
scary
environment.
It's
very
threatening,
some
of
them
are
very
nice,
and
some
of
them
are
very
kind.
One
on
one
they'll
all
admit,
there's
problems,
but
there's
a
there's,
a
mentality
that
takes
hold
at
two
o'clock
in
the
morning
when
you
can't
sleep
and
people
are
up
and
down
the
street
blocking
traffic,
and
my
letter
gives
a
litany
of
the
kind
of
things
you
might
expect.
You
would
see
with
this
sort
of
environment.
K
I
won't
go
through
all
them
and
you
can
imagine
the
one.
The
one
easy
thing
about
living
near
fraternity
houses
is
nobody
really
doubts
that
what
goes
on
goes
on
so
I
won't.
Take
you
through
the
whole
list.
It
is
in
my
letter
again
I'm
here
to
support
the
proposal.
That's
before
you,
it
is
the
most
benign
innocuous
minimalist
recommendation.
I
think
that
could
be
made
short
of
the
exhibiting.
The
status
quo
remain.
Thank.
B
L
Just
a
couple
questions
of
clarification,
so,
first
of
all,
because
anytime,
a
discussion
of
fraternities
comes
up,
there's
a
question
of
of
intent.
Your
position
in
this
is
you're
not
seeking
in
any
way
to
shut
down
fraternities,
but
rather
to
address
the
regulatory
void
and
to
ensure
safety
and
accountability.
Is
that
right?
That's
right!
Okay!
K
Things
got
worse,
in
fact,
as
soon
as
there
was
the
discussion
about
regulations,
things
got
worse.
There
were
promises
that
were
made,
that
everything
would
be
fine.
You
just
need
to
speak
to
us
we're
more
than
willing
to
help
that
that
stopped.
The
second
there
was
the
talk
of
regulation
ended
I've
tried
to
speak
to
the
Interfraternity
Council.
It
is
a
secret
society.
You
cannot
speak
to
them.
I've
tried
to
ask
who
is
in
charge
who's
the
grown-up
in
the
house.
K
They
look
at
each
other
and
they
just
don't
know
it's
just
whoever
happens
to
be
the
most
so
girl
on
that
particular
evening.
I
had
to
say
so:
no
it
was,
it
actually
got
worse
and
if
they
say
things
have
gotten
better,
they
have
probably
gotten
better
since
this
committee
once
again
started
looking
at
that,
I
can't
point
to
an
immediate
cause
and
effect.
If
they
come
before
you
and
say
things
have
gotten
mildly
better,
it
is
mildly
better,
but
it
is
exactly
coinciding
with
what's
going
on
here.
K
F
Stearns,
yes,
you
know
my
recollection
was
that
we
looked
at
this
issue
through
from
a
planning
point
of
view,
planning
perspective
back
a
number
of
years
ago
through
manager
of
planning
and
growth
committee,
and
it
is
a
difficult
issue
to
deal
with.
So
if
we
go
to
the
this
committee
and
we
try
to
regulate
which
I'm,
you
know,
supportive
of
I'd
like
to
get
an
idea
of
how
close
some
of
the
residential
homes
are
to
these
sorority
houses
or
fraternities.
Well,.
F
G
G
K
M
K
Well,
I
I'm,
not
I,
was
supportive
of
removing
the
exemption.
The
exemption,
they
are
I,
say,
perversely,
exempted
from
the
minimum
standards,
which
are
the
rooming
house
standards,
and
that
was
what
I
was
hoping
I
would
see,
because
no
one
quite
knows
why
that
exemption
exists.
There
may
have
been
a
time
a
long
time
ago,
when
you
know
behavior
was
milder,
and
these
were
in
some
way
gentlemen's
clubs
and
it
was
they
were
actually
perhaps
the
idea,
the
ideal
of
the
civil.
You
know
neighbor,
but
things
have
changed
dramatically
and
yet
that
exemption
exists.
You.
B
N
Thank
you,
I
think
I've
spent
a
whole
week
here
good
morning,
everybody
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
I'm
here
on
behalf
of
the
Grange
Community
Association.
We
have
three
or
four
frets
in
our
Boren
boundaries
and
our
boundaries
of
Spadina
to
university
Queen
to
college,
but
the
annex
residents,
association
David,
is
a
resident
in
the
Annex,
but
the
annex
resident
Association
they
have
filed
a
letter
with
you
and
they've
asked
me
to
if
I
would
also
speak
on
their
behalf.
N
The
five
residence
groups
which
surround
the
University
of
Toronto
are
part
of
a
community
liaison
committee
with
the
University.
It's
been
meetings
informally
since
the
1970s,
but
that
structure
got
formalized
in
1996
through
a
bylaw
of
City
Council.
We
meet
regularly
three
or
four
times
a
year
and
I
could
tell
you
that
in
the
last
20
years
this
comes
up
frequently.
N
We've
raised
the
issue
at
the
university.
The
university
has
written
to
some
of
the
frat
houses
and
I
agree
that
there
is
a
need
for
this
kind
of
student
housing,
but
it
needs
to
be
safe
and
it
cannot
interfere
with
the
lives
of
the
people
who
live.
I
know
that
some
of
the
frats
have
said
well.
This
should
be
treated
like
any
other
residents,
but
they're
not
like
any
other
residents.
We
have
people
who
have
minimal
attachment
to
the
neighborhood.
N
There
are
not
long
term
residents,
and
really
it's
sort
of
a
little
bit
reminds
me
of
what
the
entertainment
district
used
to
be
like
now.
I
welcome
the
staff
report
and
we
welcome
and
support
the
recommendations
that
are
in
in
the
report
and
I
know
that
some
members
of
the
associate
those
associations
feel
that
it
should
go
further.
But
I
think
that
this
is
a
start.
I
was
the
bulk
of
the
frets
are
actually
in
the
Annex
Harvard
Village
and
the
other
residents
group,
and
here
in
Sussex,
have
minimal
numbers.
N
If
not,
but
when
I
looked
at
the
statistics
in
the
staff
report,
what
I
see
is
that
there's
an
average
of
32
complaints
every
year?
But
you
know
the
bulk
of
it
relates
to
waste
noise,
property
standards
and
the
twelve
of
the
lead
two
orders.
But
what
troubles
me
the
most
is
when
I
look
at
the
police
statistics
in
the
report
and
I
see
that
from
January
to
March
of
this
year.
In
three
months
alone,
there
have
been
15
complaints
filed
with
the
cops.
L
L
N
Isn't
there's
a
letter
dated
May
2nd,
which
is
in
your
package,
and
he
says
he
wants
to
express
the
University
of
Toronto
support
for
creating
reporting
requirements
or
fraternity
and
sorority
houses
as
a
pre
as
a
requisite
for
qualifying
for
the
exemption.
So
they
don't
register.
Why
would
they
qualify?
Because
you
know
we
got
lots
of
other
problems
as
rooming
houses,
so
at
a
minimum
registration.
Thank.
F
What
the
Georgia
and
Thank
You
mr.
chairman
CEDA
can
I
assume
that
in
fact,
any
efforts
made
to
deal
with
these
houses
as
a
nuisance
or
as
safety
issues
that
municipal
licensing
was
not
very
effective
in
coming
in
and
dealing
with
the
noise
factor.
Public
health
was
not
in
or
maybe
not
very
effective
in
coming
in
and
dealing
with
the
safety
issues
that
a
reasonable
assumption
that.
N
A
B
A
A
He'll
be
he'll,
be
carrying
the
brunt
of
our
argument.
I
am
a
representative
of
the
corporation
that
owns
180,
st.
George,
the
corner
of
st.
George
and
Prince
Arthur,
and
have
been
a
member
there
since
1976
I
think
the
main
issue
for
residents,
certainly
that
we
hear
is
noise
and
property
standards
and
we
certainly
agree.
These
are
issues
that
we
continually
struggle
to
address.
A
The
issue
of
building
or
tenant
safety,
which
fraternities
are
compelled
to
address
in
great
detail
and
comprehensiveness
by
our
insurers
and
central
offices,
is
I
believe
a
red
herring.
The
safety
at
the
large
parties,
which
we
certainly
an
art
fraternity,
we
have
attempted
to
restrict
considerably,
is
again
a
struggle
that
we
continue
to
work
with.
I.
Think
the
exemption
of
fraternities
from
designation
as
rooming
houses
was
confirmed
by
staff
in
2011
in
joint
consultation
with
Zoning
planning,
Toronto
police
and
the
fire
department.
It
was
confirmed.
A
A
Mr.
Carson,
we'll
talk
later
a
bit
about
this
I
suppose
at
the
very
least,
I
would
hope
this
matter
be
referred
back
to
staff
for
a
more
confer
the
more
detailed
review,
because
I
think
some
issues
have
been
glossed
over
in
in
the
rush
to
bring
in
what
I
think
is
a
kind
of
a
heavy-handed
approach
to
regulating
how
our
buildings
are
to
be
are
to
be
operated.
A
Most
of
us
have
been
there
for
50
years
and
in
some
cases
you
know
on
campus
or
near
campus,
for
over
a
hundred
at
best.
I
would
hope
this
suggestion
be
dismissed
altogether
as
a
misguided
attempt
to
deal
with
noise
and
behavior
issues
which
we
do
acknowledge,
need
our
constant
attention
and
of
bylaw
enforcement
officers
and
of
Toronto
Toronto
police,
as
I
say.
Mr.
Carson
will
take
his
full
five
minutes
out.
I
will
confirm
to
you
and
he
is
put
forward
a
letter
which
is
which
addresses
these
matters
in
in
detail.
L
L
A
L
A
L
With
all
due
respect,
sir,
you
just
came
and
said
that
this
is
a
heavy-handed
approach
in
your
and
that
this
matter
should
not
be
dealt
with
here
today.
The
room
you
also
only
the
rooming
house
issue
counselor,
but
you
just
told
me
you're
supportive
of
the
actual
staff
recommendations
which
were
discussing
yes,
I
supposed.
Okay.
Thank
you,
sir
I'm.
Sorry,
it's
not
your
turn
to
speak.
Thank
you
very
much.
That's
all
my
question.
Okay,.
A
M
M
So
do
you
understand
our
sort
of
dilemma
and
you
know
I
went
to
university
love,
frat
houses,
love
the
parties.
Don't
get
me
wrong!
All
that
said
when
when
somebody
comes
and
says,
hey
yeah,
we
need
you
know,
we
acknowledge
things,
need
attention
and
then
seemingly
done
nothing
about
it
or
doing
the
hey.
Look
over
there.
A
M
M
We
and
I
don't
know
if
they're,
ten,
twenty
thirty
I
don't
know
how
many
people
live
in,
because
every
house
is
different
right,
but
would
you
given
the
the
age
of
these
buildings
and
rundown
condition,
certainly
on
the
interior?
We
do
not
acknowledge
that.
Maybe
there
are
like
fire
hazards
and
all
these
things
I.
A
G
A
O
I
The
reasoning
for
that
is
that
it's
my
belief
that,
during
the
harmonization
of
the
zoning
bylaw
for
the
City
of
Toronto,
that
extensive
research
by
both
planning,
licensing
and
legal
was
conducted
to
ascertain
the
status
and
the
designation
for
our
properties.
At
that
time,
the
determination
was
made
that
our
properties
were
neither
businesses
nor
rooming
houses,
subject
to
licensing
under
section
or
chapter
285
of
the
Missal
code.
I
It's
my
understanding
from
information
brought
to
me
by
staff
that
this
report
was
brought
forward
without
consulting
with
the
planning
department
or
with
any
considerable
investigation
with
the
Toronto
Police
Service
I'd
like
to
address
the
original
motion
that
was
brought
forward.
That
called
for
this
report
and
point
out
the
fact
that
the
majority
of
the
content
of
the
recommendations
don't
fall
under
what
was
requested.
The
first
part
of
the
original
motion
requested
licensing
that
licensing
question
has
been
asked
and
answered
by
not
only
this
committee,
but
by
council
and
planning
and
licensing
staff
in
2011.
I
Nothing
material
has
changed
with
the
nature
of
our
organisations
or
the
manner
in
which
these
properties
are
organized
and
operate.
It
was
also
found
that
these
properties
operate
as
single
housekeeping
units
within
a
dual,
also
not
subject
to
licensing
under
Chapter
285.
The
recommendation
part
1,
a
and
B
is
10
amount
to
licensing
the
registration
of
the
organization
and
the
registration
of
the
of
individual
members
with
the
city
is
no
different
than
subjecting
someone
to
licensing
it's.
I
My
understanding
that
the
city
does
not
is
not
afforded
the
authority
by
the
Planning
Act
or
the
Building
Code
to
license
individuals
or
organizations
dependent
on
their
association
with
the
questioned
regard
to
where
this
exemption
was
brought
forward
from
and
the
nature
by
which
the
city
intended
it
to
be
used.
We
have
to
go
back
to
1983
in
1983
7
4,
4,
8
3
was
brought
forward
as
an
amendment
to
502
the
rooming
house
bylaw.
I
This
amendment
was
brought
forward
for
the
sole
purpose
of
defining
what
co-operative
student,
housing,
fraternity
and
sorority
houses
were
because
it
couldn't
be
defined
in
the
Zoning
Act,
because
they
are
undefined
terms
only
recognizable
by
the
individuals
or
the
Association.
The
reason
that
this
this
bylaw
was
brought
forward
was
so
that
the
city
could
define
exactly
what
not-for-profit
student
housing
was.
I
They
went
so
far
as
to
add
a
part
C
and
that's
included
in
the
detailed
documentation
that
I
provided
to
you
by
email
that
they
included
a
notwithstanding
Clause
that
clearly
stipulated
that
fraternity,
sorority
houses
and
cooperative
student
housing
are
not
rooming
houses.
Now,
when
502
was
consolidated
and
brought
forward
as
chapter
285
in
the
admissible
code,
the
notwithstanding
Clause
as
it
was
with
almost
every
bylaw
in
the
City
of
Toronto
at
the
time,
was
converted
to
the
form
of
an
exemption
because
of
the
legal
issues
around
surrounding.
I
Notwithstanding
Clause,
the
city's
intent
and
belief
from
the
very
beginning
always
stipulated
that
our
properties
were
not
rooming
houses
and
should
not
be
subject
to
licensing
licensing.
The
only
reason
that
this
exemption
and
the
reference
to
fraternity,
houses
and
sorority
houses
in
cooperative
student
housing
exists
in
the
rooming
house
act
was
so
to
define
what
we
are,
so
that
the
city
had
the
capability
to
weed
out
nefarious
for-profit
entities
wishing
to
masquerade
as
not-for-profit
student
housing.
I
I
I
would
like
it
to
be
known
that
we
carry
on
a
regular
and
extensive
communicate
line
of
communication
with
time
seconds
for
my
law
enforcement
and
Toronto
Toronto
Police
Service,
we
speak
with
them
quite
regularly.
I
wanted
to
speak
to
the
the
nature
of
the
data
provided
and
that
it
should
be
taken.
It
should
not
be
taken
as
being
a
full
representation
of
the
reality
police
service.
Let
me.
L
I
L
Me,
mr.
chair
I'm,
sorry
they
so
you
could
I.
Just
repeat
you
said
that
you
speak
for
a
majority
are
here
speaking
today
on
behalf
of
them:
I
don't
have
an
itemized
and
I.
Don't
have
my
ID
and
finish
my
question.
Please
you
mentioned
that
you
are
here
speaking
for
a
majority
of
fraternity,
houses
and
sororities.
Could
you
please
identify
who
you
are
speaking
on
behalf
of
I.
I
I
L
Me
could
you
please
you'll.
Forgive
me
I'm
not
trying
to
be
competitive.
You
just
meant,
but
you
mentioned
that
you're
speaking
here
today,
representing
a
majority
of
fraternities
I'm,
simply
asking
you
to
tell
me
which
fraternities
you're
speaking
on
behalf
of
I'm,
not
asking
for
an
address.
I'm
just
ask:
are
you
here
speaking
for
the.
I
L
B
L
I
L
L
Many
people
work
in
those
19
houses.
Nobody
works
in
those
houses.
Okay
is
our
contact
information
available
for
each
house
so
that
if
a
member
of
the
community
or
as
a
local
councillor
or
the
city
wishes
to
have
a
conversation,
is
their
contact
information
publicly
available
for
each
of
those
19
houses?
Councillor.
I
B
L
I
Contact
information,
as
requested
in
the
staff
report,
is
no
different
than
licensing
which
is
specifically
exempted
so
now,
if
I
could
just
service
that
information
is
already
available
to
the
to
the
parties
that
require
it,
but
just
private
organizations
and
private
citizens
we're
not
required
to
publish
Lee.
So
thank
you
publicly
publish
that
information.
If.
L
B
M
I
Issue
that
we
have
here
is
that
the
requirements
put
forward
in
the
report
to
modify
the
zoning
ba
are
the
the
room.
A
host
by
law
is
no
different
than
licensing;
licensing
requires
registration
of
individuals
and,
and
what
have
you
that
is
specifically
what
this
is
asking
for.
The
exemption
specifically
excludes
us
from
that
because,
as
I
had
explained
earlier,
the
city
has
already
long
since
determined
that
these
properties
are
not
rooming
houses
and
should
not
be
subject
to
licensing.
I
I
M
As
you
say,
I
don't
have
I,
don't
have
any
I,
don't
live
anywhere
near
there.
I
don't
represent
anyone
near
you,
so
no
skin,
but
all
that
being
said
quite
often
at
least
for
my
short
experience
here.
A
lot
of
organizations
voluntarily
enter
into
things
right
and
kind
of
a
cooperative
effort.
I
know
the
the
previous
gentleman
said
that
actions
have
been
taken
and
he
said
maybe
you
could
supply
some
of
the
actions
by
I
did
not
sort
of
be
in
your
interest
to
work
with.
I
I
M
So
so,
in
terms
of
my
issue,
is
the
fire
and
all
the
safe?
Now
I
can
speak
to
that.
Not
the
parties
I
mean
we've
probably
all
been
to
those,
but
I
can
speak
to
how
many
issues
right.
Okay,
yeah,
that's
cool,
but
might
I
know
that
you
said
that
you
have
meetings
with
MLS
and
everything
else,
but
are
all
19
because
I
know
I'm
like
I'm
a
little
bit
confused
to
the
back
and.
M
I
F
I
M
M
I
Opposite
the
opposition
is
that
there's
there's
always
a
threat
associated
with
it.
If
you,
if
you
read
to
the
the
finality
of
the
report,
basically
what
they're
saying
is
and
without
defining
the
rationale
for
it.
If
this
registration
is
for
one
reason
or
another
rejected
by
MLS,
then
we
would
be
subject
to
the
full
brunt
of
the
the
licensing
of
rooming
houses,
which
the
city
has
already
clearly
stipulated
on
a
number
of
occasions
through
bylaws
and
the
findings
of
both
planning
and
licensing
that
were
clearly
not
yeah.
I
So
we
have
absolutely
no
no
problem
at
all
setting
up
a
framework
by
which
the
the
city
get
engaged
with
the
various
property
owners
as
it
stands
right
now.
The
Toronto
Police
Service
contacts
me
with
any
issue.
They
have
and
I
immediately
relay
that
information
to
the
appropriate
property
owner.
The
same
occurs
with
by
law
enforcement
and
the
same
can
also
occur
with
with
city
with
their
local
councillor.
This
is
what
occurred
with
councillor
Vaughn
after
the
the
report
was
brought
back
in
2011.
I
F
I
F
That
that
automatically
gave
you
an
implicit
license
to
no
I
know
I
didn't
stipulate
that
no,
you
didn't
say
that.
But
what
I'm
saying
is
when
you
have
the
zoning
in
place?
Typically,
one
qualifies
for
a
license
to
do
whatever
they
do
within
their
homes.
I
mean
we
don't
we
don't
need
a
license
to
have
a
party
in
our
homes.
You
know,
of
course,
not
a
single-family
home.
In
the
same
way,
you
won't
need
a
license
to
have
a
party
in
a
in
a
fraternity.
F
No,
but
implicit
in
that
is
that
the
right
to
have
a
party
is
a
privilege
yeah
and
it's
a
privilege
that
we
would.
You
agree
with
me
that
it's
a
privilege,
because
you're,
basically
abiding
by
certain
standards,
certain
related
to
noise,
related
to
what
I
would
call
property
standards.
Absolutely
I
would
agree
that,
okay,
you
would
agree
with
that.
Would
you
also
agree
that?
Well,
it's
a
privilege,
not
a
right
I.
I
F
G
F
I
That's
not
exactly
what
what
I
said.
What
I
believe
is
that
when
you
start
legislating
the
licensing
of
individuals
or
groups
based
on
their
chosen
Association
it
enters
into
a
very
dangerous
area.
We
have
no
issue
with
providing
contact
information
to
parties
that
require
it
as
the
bylaw
enforcement
police
service.
Fire
can
have
it.
The
counselor
can
even
have
the
in
social
recommendations.
F
I
In
in
actuality,
when
looking
at
the
evolution
of
the
exemption
itself,
the
exemption
wasn't
a
privilege
that
was
bestowed
upon
cooperative
student,
housing,
fraternities
and
sororities.
It
was
a
tool
utilized
by
the
city
in
order
to
differentiate
between
for-profit
housing
operations
and
not-for-profit
student
student
groups.
So.
I
I
Consultation,
the
issue
with
three
is
that,
in
our
opinion,
three
husband
asked
and
answered
with
the
June
14
2011
report
that
was
compiled
by
Planning
licensing
and
legal
during
the
harmonization
of
the
zoning
bylaw.
All
questions
related
to
licensing
as
businesses
or
chapter
285
were
fully
answered
and.
F
I
I
Much
so
we
feel
that
we're
fully
obligated
to
the
current
bylaw
and
we
do
everything
that
we
can
to
substantiate
it.
If
you
take
a
look
at
the
data
that
was
provided
in
the
report
and
then
speak
with
by
law
enforcement
or
refer
to
the
report
from
11
the
the
data
that's
provided,
giving
these
humongous
numbers
aren't
substantiated,
but.
I
It
stipulates
without
without
any
reasoning
that,
if
the
city
so
chooses
to
reject
that
registration,
that
the
property
will
be
immediately
classified
as
a
rooming
house
and
subject
to
penalties
for
running
as
such,
without
a
license
which
directly
contravenes
the
the
exemption
that
we're
talking
about
here.
In
the
first
place.
P
P
Thank
you
to
the
committee
chair
and
the
committee
for
hearing
me
today.
My
name
is
Kevin
Tuttle
and
I'm
a
volunteer
alumni
board
member
of
the
housing
corporation
that
owns
163,
st.
George
Street
I
live
there
as
an
undergraduate
fraternity
member
in
the
mid
to
late
1980s
and
I've
been
a
member
for
almost
34
years.
P
My
colleagues
from
the
other
alumni
boards
are
speaking
about
the
issue
of
property
standards
and
noise.
So
I'd
like
to
focus
attention
briefly
on
the
comments
from
from
Ellis
25.2
section
dated
26
April
2018
about
Toronto
Police
Service
data
from
January
2014
to
March
2018.
The
section
raises
more
questions
than
it
answers,
but
let
me
state
unequivocally
from
the
start
that
all
of
the
men's
and
women's
fraternities
and
sororities
have
a
zero
tolerance
policy
for
criminal
activity
of
any
kind
and
especially
assault
or
sexual
assault.
P
Our
national
offices
have
training
on
these
issues,
and
our
codes
of
conduct
require
our
student
members
not
only
to
refrain
from
criminal
activity,
which
is
patently
obvious,
but
also
to
do
the
honorable
thing
and
cooperate
with
police
as
witnesses
in
the
defense
of
victims.
The
number
of
incidents
reported
in
Ellis
25.2
states
that
police
were
responding
to
incidents
which
were
quote
at
or
near
14
of
the
19
fraternity
and
sorority
houses,
and
quote
it
does
not
state
if
any
of
the
suspects
were
members
of
members
or
their
guests.
P
The
remaining
18%
relate
to
various
types
of
assault.
The
Toronto,
Police
Service,
say
themselves
in
the
report.
That
quote,
it
should
be
noted
that
occurrences
could
be
in
response
to
a
request
by
a
resident
at
the
fraternity
or
sorority
house,
and
that
occurrences
are
marked
with
the
nearest
address,
but
do
not
necessarily
confirm
an
incident
at
that
specific
address
and
quote.
P
We
feel
we're
being
unfairly
singled
out
for
acts
which
trouble
all
of
society
at
large
and
our
particular
concern
on
university
campuses
across
Canada
and
the
United
States
acts,
which
we
are
vigilant
against
inside
our
own
organizations.
In
order
to
be
the
very
best
contributors
to
our
community
that
we
can
be,
we
would
be
more
interested
in
data
that
distinguishes
between
four
things:
one
incidents
or
calls
for
service
when
people
call
9-1-1
and
the
police
show
up
to
the
curb
two
arrests,
three
actual
charges
and
four
convictions,
and
also
be
interested
in
data.
P
We
simply
feel
that
adequate
criminal
laws
exists
that
currently
apply
to
all
residents
of
the
City
of
Toronto
and
we
firmly
believe
in
having
these
laws
applied
equally.
This
brings
me
to
my
final
point.
While
we
cooperate
with
each
other
to
address
those
classic,
bylaw
informs
enforcement
issues
around
garbage
and
noise
and
the
like.
Let
us
not
casually
toss
in
disparaging
uncorroborated
remarks
about
the
very
serious
issue
of
sexual
assault.
P
We
find
it
aerosol
and
defamatory
when
sweeping
general
statements
are
made
about
our
organization's
on
this
topic,
which
are
then
repeated
by
the
media
and
even
by
our
own
city
councilor
and
ends
up
in
the
meetings
of
city
records.
We
recommit
ourselves
to
preventing
sexual
assault
in
our
student
community
and
pledge
to
be
easy
to
work
with
on
this
issue,
we
ask
that
our
city
councilor,
our
colleagues
at
the
residents
associations
and
our
individual
neighbors
work
with
us
cooperatively
on
this
serious
matter.
Thank
you.
J
B
Just
want
to
remind
deputies
that
please
refrain
from
using
any
offensive
disrespectful
on
parliamentary
language,
as
is
reversed
members
of
council
or
city
officials
or
members
of
the
public
as
well.
That's
my
job
as
as
chair
of
the
committee
to
maintain
that
sense
for
the
chrome
in
civility.
Thank
you
questions
today,
DEP
tent
and
speaker
museum.
G
Just
a
question,
so
you
you
made
a
comment
about
doubling
the
neighbor
on
his
comments,
but
in
the
report
Toronto
Police
Services
has
has
commented
on
the
number
of
motor
vehicle
thefts,
sexual
assault
and
other
incidents
that
happened.
So
are
you
doubting
the
police
services
report
as
well
that
you
don't
believe
they're
telling
the
truth?
No.
P
P
Saying
that
we
don't
understand
what
the
the
details
of
the
incidents
are,
as
it
says
in
the
report
respectfully
mr.
chair,
that
the
addresses
don't
necessarily
match
to
where
the
incident
actually
took
place,
and
it
doesn't
distinguish
between
whether
our
members,
our
guests,
were
the
victims
and
and
called
the
police
to
the
scene.
For
some
incident,
so
I
mean.
L
P
F
P
A
very
good
question:
counselor
Thank
You
mr.
chair
through
the
chair
I,
can
speak
specifically
to
our
property,
for
example
to
the
south
of
us.
We
have
a
large
apartment
building
about
8
stories
and
we
have
a
direct
line
of
communication
with
the
property
manager
and
every
September.
We
invite
them
to
our
corporation
board
meeting
to
speak
to
our
student
members
about
the
importance
of
being
good
neighbors
directly
behind
us.
P
We
have
two
single-family
homes:
one's
occupied
by
former
to
Governor,
General,
Adrienne
Clarkson
and
her
husband,
John
Ralston
Saul,
with
whom
we
have
an
open
dialogue.
They
have
my
cell
number
personally,
as
does
the
other
neighbor
private
neighbor
to
the
side,
I'm
sure
the
RCMP
has
my
cell
number
now
as
well.
In
fact,
we.
F
F
P
O
F
P
P
Q
Hello
committee
members
and
thank
you
for
giving
me
a
few
minutes
to
chat.
My
name
is
Jim
a
creep
I'm,
a
50-year
member
of
set
aside
for
eternity
at
180,
st.
George,
Street
I,
don't
speak
for
anyone
other
than
myself,
and
perhaps
my
fraternity
and
my
experiences.
50
years
of
I
lived
Animal
House
I
was
there
I
started
in
the
fall
of
1967.
That
was
me,
I
saw
it
all
I.
Did
it
all
I'd
like
to
think
that
things
have
changed
a
little
bit
I
think
they
have.
Q
I
mr.
stern-
and
I
have
exchanged
business
cards,
but
I
already
see
here
have
is
happening
is
perhaps
we
need
a
little
better
communication
between
the
fraternities
and
the
community.
A
lot
of
the
things
you're
requesting
I,
don't
see
why
there
would
be
a
problem.
I
I
can't
speak
for
the
international
fraternity
Council,
but
I
I
would
like
to
think
that
they
would
be
very
open
to
you
folks
and
give
you
exactly
what
you
want.
I
mean
a
lot
of
what
you're
asking
for
is
just
common
sense.
Q
Okay-
and
this
is
what
I
feel
that
we
should
work
with
you
and
mr.
stern,
and
carry
this
through
I'm,
not
here,
to
talk
about
licensing
I,
guess,
that's
that's
what
it
all
comes
down
to,
but
I
just
think
a
common-sense
dialogue
a
little
further
that
that
we
could
meet
together
and
and
find
out
what
exactly
is
best
for.
All
of
us
am,
I
concerned
with
the
university
community,
and
what
I'm
very
involved
is
that
the
mental
health
of
students,
okay,
I,
when
I
joined
in
67,
my
wife
died.
Q
Never
my
mother
died
at
the
end
of
first
year.
It
was
my
brother's
that
got
me
through
it
later
on.
My
wife
took
her
own
life
through
anxiety,
depression,
I've
worked
with
the
Bell.
Let's
talk
as
a
facilitator
to
talk
to
people
about
mental
health,
suicide
at
universities,
anxiety,
depression,
it's
an
epidemic.
Q
What
we
are
what
fraternities
are
is
an
oasis,
a
sanctuary
for
for
a
small
group
of
people
to
get
together
and
have
a
peer
group
that
might
save
their
lives.
Okay,
that
it's
it's
it's
almost
a
unique
thing
in
a
University
of
Toronto
overwhelming
our
chancellor
at
the
University
of
Toronto,
the
Honorable
Michael
Wilson,
is
also
the
chairman
of
the
Canadian
Mental
Health
Committee.
His
son
took
his
own
life
in
university.
Q
Q
You
need
what
I'm
saying
is
basically
there's
room
for
further
discussion:
okay,
I
think
by
and
large
we're
willing
to
work
with
you
folks,
I,
don't
know
why
we
wouldn't
it
makes
common
sense.
We
all
want
the
right
thing.
I
mean
you
know:
I
have
three
daughters,
two
granddaughters
I
sexual
assault
is
very
high
on
my
list
and
alcohol
abuse,
and
none
of
us
wants
any
trouble.
Okay,
we
want
to
work
together
with
you
and
and
and
come
to
a
sensible
conclusion
that
will
we've
been
there
for
hundred
years,
I,
don't
think
we're
going
away.
Q
Don't
personally,
okay,
I,
just
cry:
why
not
I
mean
and
and
and
for
the
communities
I
mean
I.
We
have
to
work
with
people,
I
mean
what
the
last
thing
I'm
gonna
say:
I
live
about
a
mile
away
from
from
where
that
tragic
accident
had
that
the
the
van
on
Yonge,
Street,
okay
and
I
saw
Mara
Tory
talking
his
first
press
conference,
and
this
is
what
he
said
about
the
people
of
Toronto.
Q
We
were
admired
around
the
world
for
being
inclusive,
accepting
understanding
and
considerate,
and
that's
what
I
would
like
to
see
in
this
room
and
and
that's
what
you
know
we
are
trying
to
on
Tony
answer
like
that
and
I
think
we
can
be
like
that.
I
think
we
can
work
together
to
get
everybody
what
they
want
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
onerous.
It's
just
communication
is
the
key
to
understanding.
So
if
we
can
do
that
and
I
will
contact
mr.
stern
and
whoever
wants
it
to
okay.
Q
Suggestion
is
that,
if
someone
calls
the
police
to
say
that
there
is
a
noise
complaint,
that
the
police
officer
can
issue
a
ticket
immediately
if
they
agree
that
there
has
been
an
offense
committed,
a
twenty
dollar
fine
and
that
every
time
that
the
offensive
party
has
committed
another
offense,
a
police
officer
can
double
that
fine.
This
is
much
better
than
having
residents
having
to
keep
records
for
months
on
end
or
maybe
even
years
on
end
of
offending
parties.
Q
As
far
as
noise
infractions
I
think
it
the
police
when,
as
far
as
a
speeding
ticket,
they
automatically
issue
a
ticket
and
they
should
be
allowed
to
do
the
same
thing
as
far
as
noise
and
fractions
I
think
a
$20
ticket
at
the
first
infraction
double
it.
Every
time
the
police
have
records
of
some
offending
party,
they
can
look
on
their
computers
to
see
how
many
times
has
this
person
this
residence
come
this
offense
and
every
time
the
offense
is
committed
double
the
ticket.
Q
R
Mr.
chair
members
of
the
committee,
my
name
is
christian
chen.
I
am
a
resident
of
the
annex
also.
I
am
a
former
director
of
the
edx
residents
association.
I
am
also
a
former
chair
and
member
of
the
committee
of
adjustment,
toronto,
nice
york
and
also
a
practicing
land
use
planner.
My
submissions
to
you
today
is
more
of
a
technical
nature
related
to
the
recommendations
I
believe
in
their
current
form.
I
wouldn't
be
supportive
of
them.
However,
I
do
have
some
suggestions.
R
R
Secondly,
omit
the
requirement
of
a
certification
of
existing
fraternity
storey
houses
as
they've
existed
for
a
very
long
time
in
their
current
locations
and
I.
Believe
it's
wasteful
of
resources
and
time
as
these
organizations
and
houses
already
publicly
identify
as
such,
with
the
letters
on
their
houses.
R
B
I
believe
that
it
is
overreaching
to
require
that
the
contact
information
for
the
national
and
international
be
provided,
especially
with
respect
to
the
larger,
fraternal
organizations
that
are
based
out
of
the
United
States.
As
I
understand.
They
are
quite
large
and
administrative
organizations
that
probably
have
staffing
that
is
comparable
to
the
city
of
Toronto
itself,
and
it
would
be
a
long
time
before
you
would
get
an
answer
from
them
and
therefore
I
recommend
that
the
recommendation
be
amended,
that
the
contact
versus
shall
be
the
owners
of
the
property,
their
agents
and
their
staff.
R
And
I
would
like
to
know
also
that
fraternity
and
sorority
houses
are
materially
different
from
rooming
houses,
I've
outlined
in
the
first
section
of
my
report.
Our
buildings:
are
they
permit
students
to
live
affordably
in
one
of
the
most
expensive,
downtown
resonation
residential
neighborhoods
in
Canada?
If
not
the
world,
they
form
part
of
the
significant
part
of
the
annexes,
affordable
housing
stocks
to
talk
to
in
between
all
those
luxury
homes
and
their
owners
of
those
homes.
R
R
The
tenants
of
these
houses
are
post-secondary.
Students
attending
nearby
university
at
colleges.
I
do
know
that
many
of
these
houses,
besides
the
negative
connotations
with
regards
the
social
events
that
they
run,
also
provide
significant
philanthropic
contributions
to
the
community
in
the
city.
Blood
drives
donations
being
forming
executives
on
student
councils
and
engaged
members
of
public
other
than
what
we
continually
see
in
the
media
and
what
we
are
prejudiced
to
be
in
a
prejudice
to
having
certain
social
activities
that
we
partake
in
on
our
streets
and
by
our
nearby
neighbors.
And
those
are
my
submissions.
R
F
Is
George?
Oh,
very
good,
question
Christian
interested
in
your
recommendation
about
three
members
of
the
sorority,
not
from
sorry,
sir,
as
well,
sorority
or
fraternity
not
being
able
to
live
in
a
single
building.
You
are
aware
that
the
provincial
government
has
a
regulation
in
place
that
three
unreliable,
a
minimum
of
three
elmerita
people,
can
live
in
a
single,
a
single
family
home
in
accordance
with
the
Planning
Act.
Yes,
so
why
do
you
think
that
three
people,
just
because
they
happen
to
be
members
of
a
fraternity,
should
be
excluded
from
that
requirement?
My.
F
R
So
my
interpretation
of
that
is
that
there's
a
requirement
from
licensing
if
this
recommendation
is
passed,
that
there
has
to
be
proof
that
these
individuals
are
members
of
a
group
or
Association
and
I,
don't
believe
that
is
in
the
purview
of
any
regulatory
to
regime
to
require
somebody
to
be
part
of
an
interest
group
to
be
resident
of
a
particular
property
anywhere
in
this
country.
Alright,
thanks.
L
C
L
L
L
C
L
L
C
L
C
Through
your
mr.
chair,
we
we
have
provided
in
the
report.
The
number
of
complaints
that
we've
received
in
each
of
the
last
five
years,
we've
seen
a
slight
decline
in
2017.
As
far
as
reported
complaints
from
a
policing
perspective,
it
does
appear.
Those
numbers
are
static,
just
noting
that
those
are
occurrences
where
the
addresses
were
identified
as
it
may
be
at
or
near
so
they
are
not
directly
all
attributed
to
the
address
specifically
but
have
been
identified
as
the
location.
So
but
the
numbers
are
generally
consistent.
Okay,.
L
F
Unfortunate
I
don't
have
the
specific
incident
reports
for
each
type,
but
they
are
codified
in
our
standard
incident
reports
as
emergency
medical
calls,
so
they
would
have
to
meet
the
tiered
response
agreement.
So
generally,
when
Toronto
Fire
is
tiered,
with
our
colleagues
at
Toronto
paramedic
services,
it's
a
higher
threshold
call.
Okay,
then
a
scrape.
L
F
The
chair,
notwithstanding
the
bylaw
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
yes
again,
rooming
house
enforcement
is
is
difficult
on
the
best
of
days,
but
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
depending
on
the
situation
in
the
particular
building,
the
Ontario
fire
code
may
be
applied,
and
then
we
would
just
have
to
look
at
the
essential
elements
that
we
would
have
to
prove.
Okay,.
L
L
G
M
M
L
M
Bylaws
in
place
that
govern
the
most
of
the
complaints
mentioned
in
the
report.
Okay,
let
me
rephrase
that
what
I'm
saying
is,
if,
if,
if,
if
they
were
following
any
sort
of
code
or
standard
of
I'll,
say
neighborly
decency,
would
that
not
address
a
lot
of
their
waste
issues
or
the
waste
issues
like?
Are
they
something
about
mixing
recycling?
For
instance,.
C
So
three
of
mr.
chair,
every
person
is
entitled
to
regulate
their
conduct
and
visa
vie
the
law
that's
in
place
in
this
case.
It's
the
waste
bylaws
I,
don't
know
that
I
have
specifics
about
the
nature
of
the
waste.
That
was
an
issue,
but
we
do
have
both
our
waste
bylaw
and
our
property
standards
by
laws
that
govern
this.
Okay.
M
S
F
M
M
And
then
my
I
think
my
last
question
is:
if
we
were
to
adopt
these
recommendations,
what
would
the
actual
impact
on
the
frats
and
sororities
be
other
than
obviously
the
for
mentioned
questions
that
I
just
had
in
terms
of
fire
code
building
could
I
get
all
that
stuff?
What
what
other
impact
would
you
be
and
that
the
main
impact
to
the
fraternities
and
sororities
would
be
them
to
validate
their
exemption.
M
C
You,
mr.
chair,
no,
that
is
not
the
case.
The
recommendations
in
front
of
you
today
simply
require
proof
for
the
exception
that
currently
exists
and
and
providing
information
for
registration
purposes
that
so
we
have
somebody
to
contact
the
other
recommendations.
One
make
some
clarity
on
a
definition.
The
third
talks
about
future
work
to
be
done
just
to
be
clear
that
the
licensing
or
any
licensing
or
any
registration
does
not
preclude
or
exempt
people
from
all
the
rest
of
the
bylaws
right,
they're
required
to
comply
with
or
other
laws
and
statutes
fairly
and
provincially.
O
L
You
and
I
won't
take
the
full
five
minutes
here.
First
of
all,
I
just
want
to
thank
our
lights
and
our
MLS
staff
for
all
their
hard
work
on
this
over
the
last
year.
Carlton
and
Tracey
and
Co
I
want
to
thank
the
the
many
local
stakeholders,
residents
and
businesses
we've
heard
from
the
University
of
Toronto,
who
is
who
are
supportive
of
this
measure.
L
I
want
to
quote
from
the
president
of
the
University
of
Toronto
America,
there's
letter
to
reiterate
a
point
that
was
made
when
this
matter
was
first
considered.
The
University
of
Toronto
does
not
recognize
or
have
any
relationship
with
fraternities
and
sororities.
That
said,
we
shared
the
local
community's
desire
for
safe
livable
neighborhoods
and
are
particularly
cognizant
of
the
safety
of
UT,
still
students
and
willing
to
support
any
measure
to
help
their
safety.
Listen.
The
local
community
supports
these
measures.
L
Local,
the
University
of
Toronto
supports
these
measures.
The
University
of
Toronto
student
associations
support
these
measures
and
I
support
these
measures,
and
so
this
is
simply
about
safety
and
accountability.
Don't
let
it
become
about
anything
else.
It's
about
safety
of
the
residents
of
these
sites,
of
the
visitors
to
these
sites
and
of
the
local
community
and
accountability
to
the
city
and
the
community.
I'll
just
say
very
quickly,
and
we've
heard
it
extensively
here
that
currently
sororities
and
fraternities
exist
in
a
gray
area.
There
is
a
regulatory
void
that
exists.
They
provide
housing.
L
We
don't
know
to
how
many
people
we
don't
know
the
contact
information
for
the
19
sites
that
provide
housing,
but
they
provide
this
housing
without
any
city
regulatory
framework,
around
property
standards,
fire
and
others,
and
so
this
is
a
minute.
This
is
a
long
overdue
initiative
to
address
ongoing
issues
relating
to
noise
and
garbage
and
property
standards
and
safety.
It's
supported
by
everybody.
It
seems,
except
some
fraternities
I
have
not
heard
from
a
single
person
other
than
a
representative
for
fraternities,
who
can't
name
which
fraternities
he
represents,
and
so
I
would
just
close
by
saying.
L
L
It's
about
safety
and
accountability
and
I
will
tell
you
two
members
of
council
here
that
when
I
got
elected-
and
this
goes
back
decades,
but
when
that
when
I
got
elected,
I
reached
out
to
a
representative
somebody
who
claimed
to
be
a
representative
for
the
19
sites
and
I
said
I
would
be
with
to
engage
in
a
meeting
with
a
representative
of
each
of
the
19
sites
to
talk
about
protocols
and
standards
and
how
we
work
together
and
the
answer
was
I
will
I.
You
only
speak
to
me.
L
You
heard
from
that
deputy
today,
I
can't
find
out
who
the
sites
are.
I
can't
find
a
contact
information
for
the
site.
I
can't
do
my
job
and
the
residents
continue
to
struggle
and
I'm
worried
about
the
safety
like
look
at
these
numbers
from
the
police,
I
just
I,
and
so
you
know,
let's
just
get
on
with
it.
This
is
it's
long
overdue,
Thank
You.
M
Thank
you.
I
am
very
aware
that
the
frats
and
sororities
have
probably
being
or
located
where
they
are
for
longer
than
any
residents.
So
to
an
extent
when
residents
move
into
the
area
they
they
kind
of
know
what
they're
getting
all
that
said,
these
recommendations
are
pretty
it's
pretty
basic,
it's
basic
stuff
and
unfortunately,
the
representatives
against
these
recommendations
were
unable
to
tell
certainly
it
to
my
satisfaction,
to
tell
us
why.
There's
such
a
bad
idea
and
I
don't
think
I
have
to
urge
everyone
to
support
it.
Cuz
I
think
that's
the.
T
G
You
know
they.
They
did
have
an
opportunity
a
few
years
ago
to
clean
up
their
act
and
to
actually
work
with
the
community
and
try
to
address
some
of
the
concerns
that
the
community
had,
but
obviously
they
haven't-
and
it's
actually
it's
worse
now
than
it
was
a
few
years
ago.
And
so
we,
you
know
it's
an
I,
think
we
have
a
responsibility
to
protect
the
residents
that
live
in
that
area,
that
loop,
that
are
constantly
having
to
have
complaints
about
noise,
garbage
and
calling
the
police
over
and
over
again.
G
I
know
that
if
it
was
in
my
ward,
I'm
dealing
with
other
issues
similar
to
that
and
were
in
counselor
to
George's,
where
we
would
want
to
have
some
sort
of
a
licensing
and
and
and
and
brought
under
control
rather
than
it
escalate
so
I'm.
Moving
that
that
amendment
and
I'm
hoping
that
members
have
thought
the
committee
will
support
me.
G
O
G
H
O
F
F
Think
for
us
to
to
take
this
action
would
would
bring
forward
some
challenges
that
would
be
successful
and
I
just
I'm,
just
very
leery
that
we
should
proceed
in
this
map,
even
though,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
some
there
might
be
some
way
of
doing
it.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
staff
get
some
legal
opinions
on
whether
we
can
proceed
the
way
this
motion
is
recommending,
so
my
preference
is
to
prefer
it.
If
that
fails,
I
will
support
it.
O
O
O
S
The
pool
of
hottub
counts
of
Canada
supports
the
use
of
four-sided
isolation,
fencing
especially
for
families
with
young
children.
As
an
industry,
we
install
them
regularly
across
the
country,
isolation,
fencing
can
be
an
effective
barrier
and
is
proven.
So.
However,
there
are
other
modern,
modern
alternatives
that
are
every
bit
as
an
effective.
S
S
Let's
look
at
some
of
the
statistics
in
2003
Australia
enacted
legislation
making
isolation,
fencing
around
swimming
pools
mandatory.
Yes,
it
did
provide
some
initial
success
in
reducing
the
number
of
infant
drownings
and
it
should
have
to
Australian
states
had
no
fencing
regulations
in
place
15
years
ago,
not
even
three-sided.
Fencing,
however
mandated
for
sighted
fencing
has
proven
to
be
far
from
a
panacea,
as
you
can
see
by
the
results
things
have
plateaued.
This
is
why
Australia
is
presently
rethinking
its
policy.
S
S
S
If
we
provide
citizens
with
choices,
they
are
more
likely
to
embrace
one
or
more
of
them.
It
is
only
then
we
will
see
further
progress
in
terms
of
crowning,
drowning
prevention.
I
would
like
to
note
that
proponents
of
mandated
foresight
defensing
have
traditionally
quoted
the
1982
works
of
dr.
VIN
pani
and
the
1990
research
findings
of
dr.
Wintermute.
Their
studies
were
made
years
in
advance
of
the
development
of
many
of
the
modern
digital
safeguards.
That
available
today,
in
2009
I
tracked
down
dr.
Madeira
interviewed
over
the
telephone,
and
we
discussed
the
Toronto
bylaw.
S
He
voiced
surprised
that
more
up-to-date
technologies
were
not
being
encouraged.
Naturally,
his
recommendations
for
fencing
on
all
four
sides
were
taken
literally
at
the
time
of
publication.
What
he
was
suggesting
was
that
a
barrier
be
put
into
place
as
a
turn
to
access
pools
at
the
time
he
stipulated
a
fence,
because
that
was
what
was
available
then,
as
someone
educated
in
science
I
admit
that
this
observation
is
purely
anecdotal.
Nevertheless,
it
should
prompt
us
to
pause
and
think
Society
turns
to
industry
to
find
solutions
to
problems.
S
S
Few
years
ago
we
met
with
a
deputy
coroner
of
Ontario
dr.
Lauer's
and
spoke
about
his
recommendation
of
four-sided
fencing.
He
agreed
that
four-sided
fencing
is
not
all
the
be-all
and
end-all.
He
himself
had
a
near
drowning
experience
with
his
own
family,
and
his
child
was
only
inches
away
from
him.
We
agreed
that
adults,
supervision
and
education,
along
with
supplementary
layers
of
safety,
would
be
a
good
approach
to
drowning
drowning
prevention
for
young
children.
We're
looking
forward
to
being
part
of
the
next
draft
of
recommendations,
the
chief
coroner's
office
prepares.
S
The
original
report
studied
several
drownings
that
took
place
eight
years
ago.
Sadly,
three
of
the
seven
toddlers
that
were
addressed
in
that
report
and
drowned
where
four-sided
fencing
was
indeed
in
place
to
other
children,
drowned
accessing
five-foot
walls
of
above-ground
pools.
Details
on
the
other
two
journaling
victims
were
unavailable.
Certainly
a
lot
more
is
now
known
about
this
issue
and
the
factors
of
effectiveness
of
available
safeguards.
The
pool
of
hot
tub
Council
of
Canada
takes
drowning
prevention
extremely
seriously.
S
We
spent
well
over
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
just
in
the
province
of
Ontario,
the
past
five
years
on
drowning
prevention
campaigns.
I
think
we
all
agree
that
our
target
age
for
drowning
prevention
is
children
under
the
age
of
five,
for
the
families
that
fall
into
this
category.
There's
a
list
of
several
options
to
choose
from
that
provide
effective
physical
barriers
and
also
supplementary
safeguards
that
provide
additional
protection.
However,
when
it
comes
to
protecting
young
children,
there's
absolutely
no
substitute
for
adults
supervision,
the
current
by
law
clearly
misses
the
mark.
S
A
couple
of
seniors
with
no
small
children
who
decides
to
install
a
backyard
pool
is
required
to
erect
isolation
fencing.
This
is
like
telling
them.
They
must
deploy
a
child
car
safety
seat
in
their
vehicle.
On
the
other
hand,
a
family
with
young
children
that
moves
to
an
established
home
in
Toronto
that
just
happens
to
have
a
pool
on
the
property
that
was
built
in
October
2007,
no
isolation
fence
is
required.
Does
this
make
any
sense
whatsoever?
Thank.
S
Our
largest
Exec
exception,
or
our
concern
the
biggest
concern
that
we
have
against
the
existing
bylaw
in
terms
of
missing
the
mark.
It's
not
really
protecting
young
children
in
some
instances
and
we
need
we're
not
arguing
against
the
fact.
We
need
barriers.
What
we
like
to
do
is
give
their
residents
a
choice
of
the
barrier,
that's
best
for
them.
If
they
don't
like
it
and
a
lot
of
people,
you
can
there's
some
people
in
this
room.
I've
talked
to
Lowe's
the
four-sided
fence,
they
don't
like
it.
They
have
children
they're,
eight
years
old
or
older.
M
S
M
So,
just
on
that
that,
like
that
kind
of
makes
sense,
but
with
a
fence
you
don't
have
to
I
mean
I,
guess
you
have
to
close
the
gate.
Apart
from
that,
getting
tape
like
automatically
closes,
but
with
the
other
thing
with
the
automatic
pool
cover,
is
there
not
a
concern
that
people
may
not
remember
to
cover
anyone.
S
Who
invested
in
one
it?
The
name
of
it
is
automated
safety
pool
cover,
they
obviously
believe
heavily
in
safety
they've
spent
over
eighty
five
hundred
dollars.
I
could
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
with
a
price
but
they're
very
expensive,
twenty
thousand.
Anyone
who
spends
that
type
of
money
on
it.
It's
worth
just
a
push
of
a
button
to
close
it.
It.
O
G
T
T
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Tessa
Clemons
I
have
a
PhD
in
injury,
epidemiology
from
York
University
and
I'm.
Currently,
a
research
fellow
at
sick
kids
hospital
as
I
wanted
to
share
some
of
my
research
with
you,
which
relates
to
this
topic.
My
PhD
research
focused
on
drowning
prevention
and
one
of
the
projects
I
undertook
was
specifically
on
child
drowning
in
private
backyard
pools
so
for
this
study,
I
reviewed
all
drowning
deaths
in
Ontario
that
occurred
in
private
backyard,
pools
among
children
over
a
15
year
period.
So
I
was
from
1999
to
2013.
T
During
the
study
period,
54
children
under
the
age
of
5
drowned
in
a
private
backyard
pool
in
Ontario
and
when
fence
information
was
available
from
the
files
which
was
in
80%
of
the
cases,
the
majority
occurred
in
3,
sided
or
perimeter.
Fenced
pools,
approximately
60%
of
the
children
in
the
study
access
the
pool
directly
from
the
residents
totally
unobstructed,
and
these
are
the
type
of
drowning
deaths
that
could
have
been
prevented
by
four-sided.
T
Isolation,
fencing
with
a
self-closing,
self-latching
gate
1/4
of
the
children
in
the
study,
drown
in
the
private
backyard
pool
of
a
relative
or
friend's
home,
suggesting
the
need
for
all
backyard
pools
to
have
isolation
mandated
isolation,
fencing
not
just
those
with
a
toddler
who
actually
lives
in
the
home.
The
majority
of
children
were
alone
at
the
time
of
the
incident,
but
in
over
half
of
these
cases
it
because
supervision
was
present
but
distracted
at
the
immediate
moment
of
the
incident.
T
So
this
demonstrates
that
relying
solely
on
alternative
approaches
such
as
adult
supervision
may
not
be
effective.
I'd
also
like
to
mention
that
the
data
for
this
study
was
fatality
data
only
and
it
doesn't
consider
any
of
the
non-fatal
drowning
incidents
that
occur
among
children
under
five.
We
know
that
there's
actually
children
under
five
are
at
an
increased
risk
of
non-fatal
drowning,
and
the
majority
of
these
cases
also
happen
in
private
Garet
pools.
The
World
Health
Organization
recommends
that
four-sided
isolation,
pool
fencing
with
self
closing
and
self
latching
gates
be
both
legislated
and
enforced.
T
Evidence
does
exist
for
four-sided
isolation,
fencing
a
Cochrane,
systematic
review
on
backyard
pool,
fencing
that
was
published
in
2000
was
was
published
in
2000,
so
Cochrane
reviews
are
the
leading
source
of
systematic
reviews
in
healthcare
and
they
synthesize
the
highest
level
of
scientific
evidence
on
a
topic
through
a
rigorous
process.
This
review
indicated
that
four-sided
isolation,
fencing
significantly
reduced
the
risk
of
child
drowning
compared
to
three
sided
perimeter,
fencing
so
evidence
on
other
methods
of
preventing
private
backyard
pool.
T
Drownings
that
have
been
brought
to
my
attention
since
this
review
was
conducted,
have
been
anecdotal
in
nature.
Since
the
Cochrane
review,
no
rigorous
scientific
studies
have
been
conducted
to
evaluate
the
effectiveness
of
other
approaches
in
reducing
the
risk
of
child
drowning
in
backyard
pools.
We
can
also
draw
upon
knowledge
from
other
areas
of
injury
prevention
that
I've
indicated
that,
in
general,
passive
prevention
strategies
that
do
not
require
behavior
change
on
the
part
of
the
individual,
such
as
physical
barriers
and
legislation
and
enforcement,
are
more
effective
than
active
prevention
strategies
such
as
supervision
and
public
education.
T
I
believe
that
a
very
important
one
of
these
approaches
are
four-sided
isolation,
fencing
and
that
maintaining
this
requirement
in
the
City
of
Toronto
bylaws
is
important
to
ensure
the
safety
of
children
in
Toronto
I'm
pleased
to
see
that
staff
did
not
recommend
removing
this
requirement
and
based
on
the
existing
scientific
evidence
from
other
countries
and
my
own
review
of
all
child
backyard
pool
drowning
deaths
in
Ontario
I
urge
the
committee
to
maintain
the
requirement
for
for
site
of
isolation,
fencing
with
self
closing
and
self-latching
gates.
Thank
you.
M
T
T
Mr.
vice
chair
members
of
the
committee
and
municipal
licensing
staff,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
of
speaking
on
the
matter
of
changes
to
the
fence.
Bylaw
I
will
be
speaking
specifically
in
regard
to
the
proposed
elimination
of
the
height
of
hedges,
from
the
fence
by
law.
To
my
knowledge,
hence,
hedge
Heights
are
not
covered
in
any
other
bylaw
I'm
here
to
say
that
hedge
Heights
should
absolutely
remain
in
the
fence
by
law
and
even
be
made
lower
in
rear
yards.
One
of
the
basic
reasons
is
that
hedges
are
difficult
to
maintain.
T
Beyond
this
height
overgrown
hedges
need
specialist
equipment
or
professional
help
to
reduce
their
height.
The
work
is
beyond
the
skills
and
the
resources
available
to
the
ordinary
property
owner,
and
it's
often
the
neighbor
that
is
doing
the
maintaining
to
trim
the
hedge
shown
here
on
the
screen.
I
have
to
climb
up
on
the
roof
of
my
garage.
The
top
of
the
hedge
is
now
too
high
to
reach
with
a
pole.
T
T
The
row
tou
urban
agriculture
action
plan
was
unanimously
approved
by
City
Council
in
2012,
and
cultivating
food
connections
published
by
the
Toronto
Public
Health
into
2010
outlines
strategies
to
encourage
the
growth
of
urban
agriculture,
including
in
rear
yards,
both
call
for
policies
that
support
and
facilitate
the
growing
of
food.
The
draft
of
the
trolley
Toronto
pollinator
protection
plan
into
2017
outlines
and
encourages
the
enhancement
of
habitat
for
pollinators
such
as
bees
and
butterflies.
A
limiting
hedge
Heights
from
the
fence
bylaw
would
be
totally
contrary
to
these
initiatives.
T
T
There
are
other
adverse
effects
of
hedges.
This
hedge
has
caused
an
addition,
neighbor
to
fill
their
rear,
fill
in
their
rear
pool,
because
the
hedge
was
blocking
sunlight
required
for
solar
heating.
The
hedge
harbors
raccoons
and
raccoon
feces
and
urine
are
associated
with
diseases
such
as
roundworm,
Giardia
and
leptospirosis,
and
also
hedges.
T
If
the
city
wants
to
modernize
their
bylaws
and
be
consistent
with
their
initiatives
to
promote
urban
agriculture,
they
should
be
lowering
the
heights
of
limb,
height
limits
of
fences
and
hedges
to
allow
yards
to
receive
as
much
sunlight
as
possible.
Any
fence
should
either
be
open,
lattice
or
chain-link
to
allow
Sun
precipitation.
I
also
think
that
hedges
should
be
planted
a
meter
from
the
property
line
and
be
required
to
be
maintained
by
their
owner.
T
The
meter
would
set
back
would
allow
the
hedge
owner
to
trim
along
the
property
line
or
from
away
from
adjacent
building,
so
that
neighbors
are
not
burdened
with
having
to
trim
hedges
that
are
not
their
own.
So
I'm
asking
you
not
to
improve
to
approve
to
not
approve
the
removal
of
hedge
Heights
from
the
bylaw
and.
T
G
H
Through
the
chairs
of
councilmen
zyada,
so
we
were
proposing
to
remove
the
hedge,
that's
acting
as
a
fence.
So
if
the
hedge,
for
instance,
is
in
your
backyard
and
you
have
a
fence-
we
currently
don't
regulate
the
height
of
that
hedge,
so
we're
bringing
equality
to
that
issue.
So
if
it's
not
acting
as
a
fence,
there's
no
restrictions
on
the
height
of
a
hedge.
F
Two
quick
questions:
Gregor
we're
not
recommending
any
exemptions
or
any
additional
permissiveness
to
the
let's
say:
rear
yard
fences
that
are
currently
at
a
maximum
of
two
meters
through
for
side
counts
for
that
exclusion
or
side
yards.
No.
No.
No.
We
are
not
one
of
the
issues
that
I've
that
I've
had
with
respectives
hedges.
F
You
know
being
allowed
to
grow
over
and
over
and
if
it's
on
very
close
to
the
property
line.
Typically,
there
are
some
overhanging
branches
and
there
are
problems
cause
for
adjoining
neighbors
and
that
what
really
creates
the
problems
not
so
much
the
cosmetics
of
what
a
hedge
looks
like,
but
sometimes
there
are
problems
with
the
buddy
neighbors,
and
so
how
do
we
propose
to
deal
with
that?
Do
we
invariably
asks?
Let's
say
if
I
have
a
hedge
on
my
property
and
overhanging
branches
on
my
neighbor's
property?
H
O
H
The
to
the
chair,
so
currently,
if
we
treated
that
hedge
as
a
fence,
that
would
be
restricted
to
a
maximum
two
meter
height
under
the
current
provisions
of
our
fence
by
law,
we
are
proposing
to
remove
that
restriction,
because
if
you
have
a
fence
say
you
have
a
chain-link
fence
along
your
backyard
and
on
your
side
of
that
chain-link
fence,
you
have
a
row
of
cedar
hedges.
Those
are
not
would
not
be
restricted
in
how
high
they
could
grow.
H
O
H
E
Richard
share
I
think
the
clerk's
have
a
motion
I'm
going
to
just
move
the
staff
recommendations
and
ask
that
for
a
staff
report
back
on
the
feasibility
of
delegating
fence
exemption
requests
to
the
executive
director
MLS
the
reason
that
I
I
think
our
staff
should
have
a
look
at
this
is
because,
as
members
of
community
council
we
all
know-
and
when
you
you
read
through
the
staff
report,
we
get
a
lot
of
fence
exemption
requests.
They're,
usually
two
neighbors
fighting
over
one
foot,
sometimes
two
inches
six
inches,
sometimes
ten
feet.
E
I
had
one
neighbor
who,
famously
in
my
ward,
went
around
with
a
clipboard
and
putting
complaints
against
a
hundred
different
property
owners
against
hedges
that
had
been
there
for
thirty
years.
Fifty
years
people
bought
the
house
25
years
ago
and
said
without
the
hedge
hasn't
changed
in
25
years,
but
because
of
certain
bylaws,
the
way
they
were
written
they
were,
they
were
non-compliance
and
our
inspectors
would
say.
Well
sorry,
this
is
a
violation.
E
E
We
and
I
would
say,
with
all
the
staff
around
the
chamber
as
well.
That's
a
lot
of
resources
listening
to
tune
in
to
neighbors
who
sometimes
it's
not
even
the
the
hedge
or
the
fence.
It's
that
well,
that
neighbor
plays
loud,
music
and
I,
don't
like
him
or
or
this
neighbor
hasn't
liked
me
because
I
come
from
a
different
country
than
he
comes
from
and
and
you're
sit
there
as
a
counselor,
with
surrounded
by
staff
fighting
over
a
one-foot
variance
of
a
hedge-
and
you
think,
is
this
really
about
the
hedge.
E
F
E
E
My
emotions,
intent
is
to
allow
I'll
call
it
these
some
of
these
minor
issues
to
be
dealt
with
in
an
administrative
matter
and
not
take
up
councillors
time
I'd.
Rather,
we
just
passed
the
motion
on
a
550
unit,
seniors
building
or
our
development
proposal
in
my
ward
a
couple
days
ago
at
community
council.
That's
where
I
think
you
and
I
should
be
spending
our
time
with
development
proposals
and
all
the
things
that
we
should
be
doing,
not
whether
your
fence
is
six
inches
too
high
and
and
your
neighbor,
mrs.
O
O
E
Of
clarification,
I
guess
it's
not
said
so,
I
consider
it
a
friendly
amendment.
If
we
put
an
appeal
process
when
I
talk
to
mr.
D
Geronimo,
there
is
an
appeal
process
for
the
adrene
grant
program.
So
if
somebody
doesn't
like
a
staff
answer-
and
they
do
think
something
is
they've
been
treated
unfairly
or
improperly
or
there's
been
a
mistake,
there
is
an
appeal
process,
so
I
think
I'll
include
that
language
I
made
the
assumption
that
staff
when
they
write
the
report
would
include
an
appeal
process.
So
we're.
E
Would
leave
that
for
the
staff
investigation
to
come
back
and
say
what
they
think
is
the
best
and
most
appropriate
course
of
action,
but
I
always
I
agree
with
you.
There
should
be
an
appeal
process.
I
made
an
assumption,
there'd
be
an
appeal
process,
so
I'm
happy
to
add
that
defense
exemption
requests
and
appeals.
O
F
To
be
honest,
I
cannot
see
the
difference
of
the
policy.
We
have
a
place
right
now
where
staff
makes
decisions
on
offense
exemptions,
and
if
people
aren't
happy,
they
bring
it
forward
to
the
Community
Council.
So
the
appeal
process
is
in
place:
I'm,
not
sure
whether
how
they're
gonna
alter
that
appeal
process,
so
I
really
I'm
a
little
bit.
Befuddled.
F
O
O
These
monstrosities
to
grow
I've
seen
things
in
my
my
hedges,
my
area,
they're
about
thirty
thirty
feet
high
forty
feet.
High
people
cannot
see
through
them.
The
person
says:
well,
that's
my
friends
and
if
I
put
on
a
wooden
fence
or
a
chain-link
fence,
I
can
only
do
it
for
six
feet.
Six
inches.
Why
didn't
you
do
that
wants
to
put
a
hedge
up?
Have
it
go
up
to
20
feet?
Where's
the
you
know,
words
the
reality
of
this
and
then,
if
it's
a
corner
houses
I
have
two
of
them.
O
O
I
thank
the
staff
for
bringing
you
know
that
you
mean
for
the
work
that
they're
doing,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
am
NOT
ready
as
an
elected
official,
to
give
up
the
the
tools
that
people
that
elected
me
have
given
me
I'm
there
to
mitigate
between
folks
and
I'm
there
to
listen
to
both
and
people
come
to
us
and
say:
okay,
we
want
some
solutions.
If
this
is
a
means
of
us
like
sort
of
walking
away
and
I'm
answering
them,
I
think
that
we
have
to
come
back.
O
You
know
to
think
to
think
seriously
that
we
need
to
answer
what
constituents
are
bringing
us.
This
is
what's
happening
right
now,
if,
if
a
tree
has
to
be
cut,
if
your
answers
to
be
done,
stop
trying
to
do
it
and
if
people
disagree
with
staff-
and
they
want
to
make
it
me
appeal
mechanism-
and
they
come
to
us
so
that
that
already
exists
so
I
I'm,
not
sure.
Although
I
did
some
friendly
I
mean
them
said
it
will
be
supporting
it.
G
Wasn't
gonna
speak,
but
just
a
few
words
that
I
I
will
be
supporting
encountered
to
bear
makers
motion
because
really
all
he's
asking
for
is
a
report
to
come
back
in
second
quarter
of
2019.
So
at
that
point
we'll
see
what
the
report
is
and
if
there's
any
amendments
whatever
that
need
to
be
added.
That's
fine,
but
I
want
the
clothing
boxes
to
come
back
first.
Thank
you.
O
O
Council
definitely
all
right.
We
have
staff
recommendations.
All
in
favor
recorded
vote
councillor,
Frances
Nunziata
councillor
to
Georgia
transfer
the
beer
maker
against
Jim,
clear
jeans
motion
as
amended
roll
roll,
all
right,
Thank,
You,
ppreciate,
Thank,
You,
counselors,
Thank,
You
staff
have
a
great
weekend.
Everybody.