City of Englewood, Colorado Organized Trash Collection - Citizens Committee Meetings, 30 Nov 2020

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From YouTube: Organized Residential Waste & Recycling Collection Citizen's Committee Meeting-December 14, 2020

Description

Agenda HTML: https://englewoodgov.civicweb.net/filepro/documents/102603?handle=AFB204ACACD04F7B9E5575792BFAA120
Agenda PDF: https://englewoodgov.civicweb.net/filepro/documents/102602?handle=16E7EFDE637C43E0A32B99EFF943262A

1. Chair Ward Approved the Agenda

2. Call to Order and Roll Call

3. Approval of Minutes

November 30, 2020

4. Recognition of Public Comment

5. Old Business

Recap of December 7, 2020 City Council Meeting

6. New Business

RFP Elements – Services Pay-as-you-Throw and Uniform Container (Continue Discussion) Alley Service and Street Service (Discussed at 11/30/2020 meeting) Recycling (Discussed at 11/30/2020 meeting) Comp...

RFP Elements – Contractual Items Length of Contract Annual Rate Increases Program Opt Out Provision Annual Increases to Contract Pricing Customer Service Protocol Tipping Fees & Waste Transfer Sur...

RFP Elements – Policy Items Administrative Fee Use of Collected Penalties Senior Citizens/Low Income Program

7. Chairperson's Choice

Schedule

8. Committee Member's Choice

9. Adjourn

Agenda HTML: https://englewoodgov.civicweb.net/filepro/documents/102603?handle=AFB204ACACD04F7B9E5575792BFAA120
Agenda PDF: https://englewoodgov.civicweb.net/filepro/documents/102602?handle=16E7EFDE637C43E0A32B99EFF943262A

A

Is that a quorum? Are we able to proceed.

B

A

All right, uh you can begin recording and I'll call this meeting to order.

A

Good evening this is a meeting of the organized residential waste and recycling collection citizens committee. It is monday december 14th at 6 pm. uh I'm stephen ward, chair of this committee, calling this meeting to order with the clerk. Please call the roll.

B

A

B

Vice chair green, we knew he wasn't going to be attending. Remember adams also indicated he would not be attending member brown indicated he would be arriving a little bit later after seven.

C

I'm remembering I'm sorry I'm on here did you say brown.

B

I did not, I said member borman.

C

Oh, I apologize.

B

It's okay, member brown, remember brinker! Here, remember brown.

C

B

Member frasier here member hubka here member kawanabe, your member laid here and director d'andrea.

B

A

Thank you, lorraine. uh Our first order of business is approval of minutes. I'll now take a motion on approval of the previous meetings minutes.

D

I move, we approve the minutes.

E

A

Moved and seconded uh all in favor, lorraine. Please call the roll.

B

Chair ward, yes, remember: gorman, member brinker, yes, member.

B

Brown remember brown.

B

Yes, member frasier.

F

B

Member hubka, yes, remember, kawanabee, yes, member leg.

B

B

B

Terre ward, did you hear member lee.

A

I think I heard her say yes, okay, thank.

B

A

All right, so the minutes will stand approved uh unanimously. That brings us to our next item on the agenda, which is recognition of public comment. uh Is there anyone here tonight to give public comment.

B

There is no one online to your award.

A

And did we receive any written public comment that should be shared with the community? The committee.

B

A

All right uh so then we will uh begin with old business. uh Maria has a recap of the december 7th council meeting to share with us maria you have the floor.

G

Thank you, yeah, just to briefly go over um council did act to reject the proposals that we have already received, the two that we received and authorized um the committee to continue to develop a new rfp that would be issued, probably here in the first um month or so in 2021.

G

So that's all good news, um member fraser did speak during the public session after the study session so um also spoke to the work of the committee and all the council. Members did recognize the work that the committee's been doing the time that you've put in to work on this and respect your opinion.

G

To think that we can do better. So with that, um I think that was basically the gist of it. They did ask for that. We bring back the draft rfp for their review to get their input on the process and the various elements as well before we issue it. So I will work that into the the schedule overall.

G

Okay, thank you.

A

All right, uh thanks maria for the update uh and that's gonna, bring us uh back to where we left off at our last meeting. I do have a proposal since vice chair green couldn't be with us tonight, and he did have uh some substantive contributions to add on green waste and specifically the subject of yard waste.

A

I would like to skip that item on the agenda this week and uh move down uh to discussion of large item pickup uh if uh at the will of the committee. uh If folks would like to blaze through that item uh this week, we can, but I think we might be able to have a more constructive conversation if we can table that until the next session.

E

I think that makes sense um steve if it's okay, I can speak freely. I I think it'd be also important to capture the primary points that each of the members kind of wants to address, and I think green waste is obviously his his hot button issue and so price would be another one recycling um in in those environmental concerns. So if we just keep those top of mind, I think it would help drive these conversations.

A

I concur, uh thank you uh so maria can we begin on the large item. Pickup section tonight.

G

Yes, certainly I'll start there. um Let me just, I think I pulled up the wrong presentation.

G

Do you guys see the one from november 30th 2020, okay, good, all right, then I'll move ahead to um yeah? We talked a little bit about composting and green waste, and so we'll move on to large item pickup and start from there. So the original rfp, um the way that I had written it required.

G

Nope required large item pickup two times per year, city wide and the intent was that the service was to be provided either in the alley or at the curb, and that there was no additional cost to each homeowner but included in that overall cost, so you're paying for it, but just not as a separate line item, and so we also made the provision that if you had a you know something else outside of those two times per year.

G

You could still work through the company to pick those up at your home, but it would be an additional direct cost to the household, but the benefit would be that there would be pre-established prices. So you would know how much it would be to get rid of a mattress or a stove, or something like that- um and this really was this whole large item. Pickup thing was really important for keb keep bengal wood beautiful and for the city as well.

G

So, as we've talked about before, trying to reduce the number of dumped items, especially in alleys or just kind of open space areas, um ultimately falls to the city to pick those items up because there's no distinguishing identification. That ties it back to a particular person or a particular address, and so code enforcement really has their hands tied as to what they can do at that point, and so public works then, is the one who goes out and picks up those items.

G

We put them in a dumpster at the service center and then periodically haul that off. So there is a cost to us both in terms of resources as well as monetary, but for keb, especially and for everyone. You know it's having the those dumped items either in the alley really just reduces the aesthetics of the entire community, as well as becoming potentially just kind of junky looking and being potentially a place like mattresses or bagged items that can become a refuse for pests and vermin.

G

I, interestingly, neither of the haulers kind of followed that protocol, so instead what they did was they each proposed a system, a collection that would use like either the service center or protect, perhaps like a park parking lot where you could bring your items and dump them off at a particular day or a series of days, but neither of them proposed collection in the alley or curve. So I think that's an important consideration for us to discuss in this new rfp.

G

Do they like? If, if that's the way, we decided to keep it kind of similar to what the way I had originally written it, then would we reject that proposal if they did not give us what we asked for essentially so with that uh those that's one key um question. So should we continue in that same way to do these large item? Pickups is two times per year. Enough. Do we want to go, maybe price it per event, um so we could pick one two, three four something like that.

G

um Should the large project item pick up, events be specified at the gallery or curb, or do you like the idea of doing it in a parking lot where people bring their stuff as opposed to having it picked up at their home? um Should we consider costs for pick up and disposal? Those large items outside of you know just the two times per year or whatever we settle on, should green waste collection events.

G

We can forego this question if need be uh until the carson green is back, um but should greenways collection events also be considered in addition to large item events, so this would be similar where they'd set up in a facility parking lot or a park parking lot and you could come and drop off your branches, your leaves and bags whatever you might want to do, but it's solved solely for green waste, so I'll leave it I'll turn it back to you, chair ward, for discussion.

A

So uh this is one of the items that I'm kind of curious about.

A

um As far as large item goes, it's been traditionally kind of a hassle for my household to handle large items with our current model, because when I have, I had a couple mattresses, for instance- and it was just easier and, to a certain extent cheaper for me to rent a dumpster and have it dropped off at my house and keep it for a week and get rid of a bunch of stuff all at once than it would have been to pay the trash company to pick up individual items.

A

uh I see a couple hands, uh so let me uh check those.

A

It's like marcy is the first to go mercy.

C

Yeah I mean I'm just kind of curious uh maria. Did you say that we would be charged, and I mean an extra charge for this to happen where the the trash hauler picks up twice a year?

C

Is that what you just said.

G

Only no so the two times per year would be included in the base service that you'd pay for on your monthly bill. Essentially. But if you happen to have something outside of those two times, events, let's say, as chair ward, just mentioned a mattress that you wanted to get rid of you know in january, and we weren't picking up then, and you didn't want to wait till the next event. Then you would be charged a predetermined fee by.

C

G

By the way's taller.

C

So if you took it to say the site that you're talking about, I mean I'm just thinking of you know people like myself. It would be pretty hard for me to drag a mattress or a stove over to another site.

G

Exactly yep and I think.

C

G

The real, why I put it the way that I did is: maybe your neighbors would come over and help you get it at least to the curb or out to the alley, but not everybody has a pickup truck or something that can handle that large of items. Nor has the manpower to get it somewhere.

C

Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

A

That was also the part that wasn't responsive to the rfp, because if I heard you correctly, maria, the original rfp spec large item pickup at households, curbs or alleys uh twice a year and the responses that came back said at a central location to be determined by the city. Yeah.

G

So neither of them proposed what we intended.

D

B

D

For of curiosity member brown, what would you do if you had a mattress uh as things currently stand now,.

C

Well, I couldn't tell you what I would do at this point actually, because I it would be too heavy. I guess I would have to ask a neighbor, so I I can't tell you what I would do.

D

Yeah that makes sense.

A

All right, uh brenda's, the next, with their hand, raised.

H

Hi thanks yeah, I just got to thinking about the original rfc and how they didn't even offer to pick up large items and when I'm thinking about that, I'm thinking that it's probably because it's such an ill defined situation for them and it kind of gets back to pay. As you throw you know, the company is going to these companies are going to give us a bid based on at most 96 gallons at the curb or the alley.

H

So when we start talking about throwing everything else in there, I can see why they really want something more defined. Now I would hire somebody I would. I can call the trash company to say come get my mattress. What is your fee, or I can just call some junk dealer? What have you? um None of us are going to get uh it picked up unless we do otherwise. What I don't want to see happen um is that people from neighboring jurisdictions decide that well those people just pay for large item pickup, so.

B

Let's just start.

H

Dumping more in their alley, um you know, so I think we're gonna have to pick the model with which um these companies are going to respond to and ask citizens that if they don't want to wait for the collection centers twice a year, that they can call the company and pay an extra charge.

A

Thank you, brenda uh kanji you're next.

E

Yeah, I just had a question for the directors: do we have any metrics as far as the amount of money and or time that publix works is picking up large items that are unidentifiable? I think that'll drive the conversation as far as the number of times that we would need to do this.

G

Certainly um so I think the last I haven't measured for 2020, but in 2019 we had 163 requests for pickup and alleys for various items.

G

um Of course that's scattered, you know throughout the year and it could be anything, but um I actually also the code enforcement manager dave lewis reached out to me this week and he would actually like to be placed on the agenda, if possible, for our next meeting to talk about just the amount of debris that they're seeing in the alleys that's increasing, so he may have some more quantitative or and or qualitative data to give us feedback on that for more like 2020, because he's seen a significant increase, he says.

E

Okay, that's interesting. Thank you.

A

Thanks kanji uh jeff you're next.

F

Yeah I I just think this is a tricky one and I'd be really curious. What issues? Probably some of the issues brenda touched on, um but this seems like one of those real service level, things that I know carson has touched on where I'd love to see an increase in service, if possible, um to be able to pick up large items from people's household now, if that had to be on the street versus street or alley, I think that's a reasonable approach, because some alleys might be crowded.

F

It might be harder to deal with large items in the alleys. It also might lead to hopefully uh less items ending up in the alleys sitting there, um but this one um you know, I I think it's it would be a huge benefit to folks if we could at least have once a year an opportunity for them to have large item pickup at their house without bringing it to a centralized location.

F

um I'm certainly open to hearing more facts about this and what's kind of driving it from the trash haulers perspective, because I think there may be some things. We don't understand there that we could potentially craft around in an rfp. But I do think this is an area that there's some real upside for citizens here.

A

Thank you jeff. I agree. I think, there's a significant opportunity to to address this in open discussion with the haulers. I wonder if the reason why they didn't respond the way we asked them to is because of cost or if this large item issue is actually one of the cost driving factors that we're dealing with that we haven't really considered uh christine uh you're next.

D

Thanks, um I definitely see the importance of this and I see uh keeping angela beautiful's perspective on this as well as code enforcement. So I'm weighing the pros and the cons- and I have a few disparate unrelated comments on it. One is that uh some people still won't want to keep their large items for up to half a year and will either pay for it to go sooner like they do now or will dump it like. They do now.

D

So um we'll probably see some improvement in the amount of stuff dumped in the alley, but it won't be a hundred percent, um and then I wanted to mention, I think either one or both vendors did give a per item price for times when you need a large item picked up other than the large item events. I don't know if it was forty dollars an item or something I couldn't look it up on the fly.

D

So regardless there will- or there should be still the option for people that want to to have it picked up sooner, rather than wait for an event whether that's in a parking lot, whether that's a curbside and alley side or whether it doesn't happen at all, um they will and should still have that ability. So in that case it won't be a reduction in service if it goes away, um but we will, we are looking at the possibility of an increase in service. um So to conclude, then those thoughts on time up together.

D

I don't think it hurts to include it in the rfp. Probably I would say, as is two times a year and again specify that we would like it curbside or alley side.

D

um I would also like to make clear in the rfp here as well as everywhere, that we'd like to see essentially a menu of options that we can choose from, um rather than having to accept a bid all or nothing, um because I think that this could be something that we weigh once we see the price of it uh or again see if they're still refusing to off to offer curbside or alley side, and it may be something that we end up: cutting for cost savings, because we've heard feedback that every single dollar counts and our goal in reissuing.

D

The rfp is certainly to get the cost as low as possible, but we do want to take the full slate of options and then go to the cutting board. After that.

A

Thank you christine.

A

A

Brenda, if you're talking, we can't hear you.

H

Oh sorry, I forgot wrong wrong device. I totally agree with christine. We ought to make a motion to have asked just ask for both types of pricing: ask for large eye to pick up at the at the home and or, uh of course, uh the gathering of trash centers, so in the fashion that she says kind of a menu of options, try everything and because we're going to do 10 years now, so we should expect some costs to go down.

H

So does somebody want to does anybody else agree? Should we just go with that with what we had.

A

Maria, I see you you're waving there did you have something to add yeah.

G

Thank you yeah. Just to before you take a vote. um I think member hubka made a good point earlier as well about you know like so it's about reducing their risk, so I don't think maybe the original rfp you know defined like you can have 80 things out there or one thing out there and so to minimize their risk, or at least put a boundary around how many items they might pick up or the volume.

G

I think it would be helpful, maybe to add that in too so maybe it's limited to x, number of items and or um or we pay based on like a dumpster load like they take it and put it in a in a container or a dumpster, and then we pay per load as opposed to just this service that's per year or one two times per year. That might help them um define that better. So thank you just make that comment.

A

Yeah that would keep somebody uh from you know getting a smart idea about taking their friend from littleton's, mattresses and collecting stuff in their yard for the year.

H

20 bucks until we talk to um officer lewis, if you want to table this one too.

B

A

Yeah, I I think this one might uh hold well until after we have a discussion with hollers, um and also mr lewis might have some things to share with us as well. That would be relevant for for improving this discussion.

A

I see a couple hands still uh kanji.

E

Yeah, just wondering uh maria did you or director do we have any benchmarking as far as what denver is doing as best practice with regard.

G

E

G

One um I can certainly reach out to them. I believe they do. I thought they did one time per year, but I'd I'd have to verify that.

E

Okay, thank you.

A

D

I'm wondering if we might be open to uh a motion about how we would like to see a menu of options that we would ultimately pick so that's kind of a broader option than this. We could table this one for now, but I could make a motion if that sounds: okay.

A

Now be an appropriate time.

D

Okay, may I make a motion that our ultimate selection of a vendor and specific services based on rfp responses, be from a menu of options and pricing.

A

H

A second, oh I'll, second, that.

A

It's been moved and seconded uh lorraine when you're ready. Please call the roll.

B

Jared ward.

A

B

Remember brinker, yes, remember brown.

C

B

Remember: frazier yes, member hapka, yeah, remember kawanabe! Yes, remember lake.

B

A

Christine did you have something to add.

D

A

All right, uh so, unless anybody else has any other contributions, I think that'll conclude the large item, pickup discussion, at least for now, and we can move on to equipment.

A

Maria you have the floor.

G

Thank you so um oops yeah, we had talked a little bit about this, or one member had brought this up is. Would there be, you know, I think, there's pretty minimal requirements in the rfp about vehicles and one proposal did come back with compressed natural gas vehicles as an added benefit to the city, but do we want to require that or somehow incentivize haulers who provide electric or compressed natural gas vehicles so I'll, throw that out on the table and anything else to do with equipment as well?

G

Specifying you know what we want to see in terms of.

G

D

Sorry, at a minimum, I think it should be included in the rubric of how we select the vendor.

A

So if I'm hearing you correctly like bonus points for vendors that choose to use more environmentally friendly equipment,.

D

Yeah at a minimum.

A

H

uh Yeah I agree: we've got to figure out a way to intensify them, and that incentive is that we'll give them the contract and um about the uh oh yeah. You have electric and compressed natural gas vehicles yeah. Those are the only kind I know, but I don't think we should require it. But um I just don't know how you ask.

H

We could just make a statement, I suppose, and investing in a a preference will be given to the vendor who um who will purchase the fleet of electric or compressed natural gas vehicles, and you guys leave it at that.

H

I hope we can. Maybe you maybe everybody won't agree when we go toward the bed, but we should have the very least ask them if they're willing to invest in a fleet of um vehicles- and we don't know how many trash trucks they need to do a stewie.

H

Did they ever say that.

G

I don't know if we ever got the number no.

H

Yeah man was it two three ten: it can't be that much so we'll. I just have a lot of hope in that this is a ten-year bid and that they'll get the return on their money and and we'll talk and we'll see it as a good publicity for everybody.

H

That is all right.

A

Thank you, brenda marcy you're next.

C

I'm just wondering if that would drive up the price if we ask them to provide electric or compressed natural gas vehicles, and if I understood brenda correctly, we just kind of see what they say or see if they can do that without raising costs.

C

I guess that would be my question I mean: would would we have to pay extra if we put in there? Yes, we want electric or compressed natural gas vehicles, because I don't know what the single trash haulers but their vehicles or how much it would cost them to convert, or maybe they already have them.

A

Well, I think that's one of the questions that we would need to ask have answered as a committee is you know if hauler a offers us a package and hauler b offers us a package and hauler b is using natural gas vehicles, but it's charging us 50 more for the service. How does the committee favor hauler b for using natural gas vehicles, which do we value more? In other words, price or equipment.

A

uh Christine you're next.

D

uh Thanks they have cng vehicles already both of the respondents from the previous rfp uh made clear that they um do use and are proud of their cng vehicles. Already it's just a question of if they will use them for our jurisdictions and the other part of that is if they are or can be fueled by renewable natural gas, uh as opposed to just out of the pipeline from the ground, natural gas.

D

So there's those different levels of environmental attribute and then, if we do request at least information from them and put it into our rubric, I would request information on both purchase and replacement of vehicles, because we know that electric vehicles, the large large trucks they cost more now, but the prices is plummeting and incentives are, are coming and going, but they're more coming.

D

So we know that the price picture is going to change over the course of this contract and they are surely replacing vehicles all the time as they as they reach the end of their useful life.

D

And I think that, ultimately, we will want to move towards electric vehicles, there's a spectrum of environmental attributes. I think starting with uh cng and then renewable natural gas and then electric being the gold star.

A

Thank you christine uh jeff you're. Next.

F

Yeah, I think uh member brown and chair ward both bring up uh very reasonable and valid points here. I, my preference, would probably be to ask in the rfp for a description of what types of vehicles they intended to use. um We can, you know, certainly say the more sustainable the option, the more we'll like it, but I wouldn't make that a deciding factor, necessarily because there's so many variables at play here um that it's hard to choose just one. That's the most important I mean at the end of the day.

F

A single trash hauler we have to take a step back, would remove a whole bunch of trash trucks off of our streets that are burning gas diesel, whatever they're using now.

F

I would love to see electric and I think it's worth asking as member brinker mentioned, for their plans for replacement, um especially if we were talking a longer-term 7-10 year contract. Potentially here I think, that's a very important data point, um as the costs are plummeting on more sustainable options. So, to me, I'd just ask for the information rather than making a you know, a specific deciding point.

A

A

Thank you, jeff. uh Does anyone have any other comments to offer on this subject or a motion to offer.

F

I would uh if no one else is ahead of me: chair award, I'd make a motion.

A

F

I'd make a motion for any rfp to include details on the types of vehicles used by the trash. Haulers are proposed to be used by the trash haulers and their plans for vehicle replacement or upgrades for those details to be included in their bid.

A

I'll offer the second on that lorraine. If you would go ahead and call the roll.

B

A

B

Remember brinker, yes, remember brown, yes, member frazier, yes, member help cut.

B

Member healthcare.

B

Remember kawanabee.

E

B

Remember lathe, yes, remember.

B

G

B

Just stepped away for, oh sorry,.

H

Yes, I didn't realize I was mean again. Thank you.

A

Sounded like a unanimous vote to me all right, uh so I think we can move on to the next. uh Do you see? I'm sorry christine? You have your hand raised.

D

Thanks, I would like to see if I can make a follow-up motion that as a committee, our ultimate rubric for awarding the contract include, among many other things, the environmental attributes and the emission profiles of the trucks.

F

I'll, second, that.

A

All right, it's been moved and seconded uh lorraine.

B

Scarborough, yes, member brinker, yes, remember brown, no member fraser, yes, member hubka, yes, remember kawanami,.

E

B

C

B

Six yays and one.

A

Maybe all right are there any other motions.

A

Seeing none we'll move on to the next item, which is roll offs, dumpsters and other services.

G

Yeah, so this was another idea that the committee had brought up, that we really didn't address at all in the rfp, um so getting prices. If somebody would want a dumpster or a roll off, which is one of those larger dumpsters.

G

I use them kind of interchangeably those two terms, but I think there's different the different sizes specify what those are. So that might be an idea um and is there anything else, maybe that we're not that we're missing that we could include in the rfp that we should include for pricing um that this is one that comes to mind. I can't think of anything else, but just want to open up the table on that and get some feedback.

A

E

Yeah this is another product. I think I've seen those canvas bags as a pickup pop possibility, as well. So just probably another option to add.

A

In so I alluded to this a little bit earlier um in that we have from time to time used to roll off at our house, um and I I did call the hauler that services our house to find out what their rate was and it wasn't competitive with uh the private company. uh Nor was the service level. You know they told me.

A

Oh, we can get you one in two weeks, for you know I don't know 25 less than what the company I actually hired was gonna charge me to deliver one same day, so um I I think I see a little bit of a push pull between large item and this uh roll-off service. Here um I I don't have any problem with, including both of them in the bid, but I wonder if they might not be redundant to a certain extent.

E

Steve, how much was.

A

It it varies, um the number that comes to mind the first time I ordered one. I was about 280 something like that for a like an eight yard, something like that, it's in the 300 range, but you can fit a lot of stuff in one of those things. A lot of.

A

Stuff uh christine.

D

um We just got one of those big green canvas like bags too, to dump a bunch of stuff, and I think it was about 35 to buy the bag from a home depot or other store like that, and then something like 120 give or take for them to come pick it up.

A

Yeah, that's actually why I went with the roll off, because I I had priced those and the roll-off was much better value. I got like eight times the size, for you know a little more than twice as much money so.

A

uh Does anyone have anything to add on this? I support um you know, including pricing citywide, for these services in an rfp. I think that's a good idea and I think it might also help with the menu option uh as an a la carte type thing you know. Do we want this? Do we want this?

A

How many people are going to benefit from this or that.

G

Okay, yeah, it certainly takes the I I totally understand, chair ward, I've priced those two and found the individual providers actually have probably better service and probably more competitive pricing. The benefit of this might be. Is you know it's it's kind of one-stop shopping for people who don't do that very often, and here's a place to call you don't have to call around and get prices.

G

You know what the price is going to be. I think that would be the benefit.

A

And also, I think, a little bit of cooperation with your neighbors. This might be an opportunity to meet your neighbors. You got a you know: 12 yard, for the price of an eight. Maybe your next door. Neighbor has some stuff to go in there too.

A

All right uh are there any motions on this area.

D

A

uh I moved to include uh these a la carte services, including uh roll-offs, in an rfp, so that there's a fixed price from our hauler uh for those services in englewood.

F

I ask one clarifying question: I may have missed this: if that's okay, chairwood.

B

F

Would we be defining a temporary length of time for these roll-off dumpsters etcetera? Are we talking? You know permanent dumpsters? I may have missed.

G

That I I think the intent would be is that they'd still be subject to the city's permitting process, which I think allows you a maximum amount of time, which I don't know off the top of my head, but to place them in the street. They can only be there for a certain amount of time and you need a permit and then, similarly, even if you place them on private property, like your driveway, there's a time limitation to that without a permit.

F

Okay, thank you very much because I just know the one that's been across the way from my house at a construction site becomes everybody's mattress dumping ground.

B

A

uh So is there a second for my motion.

A

Who wants to take that.

I

It's all kanji thanks.

A

All right, it's been moved and seconded lorraine. Would you please call the roll.

B

B

Remember brinker, yes, remember brown.

C

B

Remember frasier.

F

B

Remember hubka, yes, remember kawanami! Yes, member laid. Yes, it's anonymous.

A

Thank you, uh jeff. I see your hand raised. Did you have something to add to this section.

F

A

Lowering all right uh so that brings us to uh new business part b, rfp elements and contractual items.

G

I've got a new powerpoint, so I'll just pull that up.

G

um Just a request, chair ward, if you could say who made the motion, if you could repeat for lorraine's benefit, who made the motion and who made the second, that would be helpful, since sometimes we can't hear the voice all the time of who's saying it. That would be helpful. Thank you.

A

I will do that.

G

Okay, so this is our second part of our ongoing agenda here, so we're going to talk about these are now more. So what we talked about is how the service is provided and what language will go into the rfp, and we can certainly come back to some of those items in the future, but now we're going to move into the second part, which is contractual items.

G

So how do we want to to word the contract if you will of things that we want them to not not so much service, but how we would go about carrying out the contract and having the hauler carry this out, so those items include length of the contract, annual increases to contract pricing program, opt-out provision, our customer service protocol, tipping fees and the waste transfer surcharge and then finally alternatives.

G

So again, we're we're just kind of ongoing with the agenda see what we can get through tonight and then we do have a third part of the agenda 2 which we'll ultimately get to so similarly to the way we've done it up to now, we'll take each one of these items and talk about them and get input so length of contract. So we are limited by state statute from entering into long-term service contracts, meaning anything over a year, there's a risk to the provider or to any vendor that it's um subject to.

G

We always put this language in there subject to annual appropriations through the budget approval process, because for whatever reason, let's say a new member of the city council comes on board. They can't be beholden to the previous city council, and so every year they have to approve the budget every year. They they establish those new service contracts, and so we have gotten around this in the past, where we've set up multi-year service contracts, but again with this language that says: hey, there's a risk here.

G

If city council, for some reason, wouldn't approve it, wouldn't set aside the money, then basically that contract is, is.

G

Can be closed out or ended, so we started with the five-year period because really weighing that risk to the contractor, because obviously they've got a lot of costs up front for the equipment for their vehicles for the trash containers themselves, um so that they could amortize those costs over a certain period of time and five years gives us, then both the city and and citizens enough time to really evaluate the service and give them enough time to perform without then being locked in for a longer period of time.

G

So that's really the thought process behind that five years trying to weigh that balance.

G

You know if we go less, then that those costs, those capital costs for a contractor, really get quite high, and if we go higher you know, then we're locked, we're just locked in with that provider for a longer period of time.

G

I don't know whether longer time periods may or may not reduce the costs, and ultimately it's probably how the rate increases are structured as well. So if we, you know in the original contract, this will be our next item.

G

But if it's three percent per year and that's for 10 years, is that going to be adequate coverage for them to say yeah, that's going to cover my costs or are they going to front load the base costs at year, one so, knowing that they're only going to get a three percent increase max per year going forward, so some things to think about.

G

Cost around a seven or a 10-year contract and weighing that with the overall goals. Do we want to be locked in for that short that length of time, or we could consider a shorter time period, possibly as a trial, knowing that the cost might go up because of those higher upfront capital costs for the haulers, so with that I'll turn it back to chairward again. Thank you.

A

I see two hands raised. The first is brenda.

H

Right, okay! Well, first of all, if we know that the cost will probably increase in a three-year contract, then we know that the cost will go down due to capital costs in a 10-year project or seven years.

H

But if you've ever been in a service contract- and I mean any contract like comcast or verizon or any of those companies, do they offer you the same rate of monthly. If you don't agree to one or two years, no, they don't. They incentivize you so that they can plan on having your business for n number of time, and they give you, let's say a modem. They give it to you.

H

You have an option to rent, but most of the time they give it to you, because in a two-year contract, because they know they'll get their money back after so many months and you run away with the motive, let's say so. Let me just say at all times, contracts are cheaper when you do the mayday longer term. That's what now two about this budget thing.

H

I kind of had the impression that this was all funded by city fees. So what comes out of the city budget is that the personnel management of this uh the service.

G

Any of whether it's fees coming from households for the personnel or for this contract they're all subject, it doesn't my. In other words, it doesn't matter where the funds are coming from we're subject to these contractual terms per state. I the but the.

H

Budget, you just said that you know that um a city council could come along and they would remove things from the budget, and then we wouldn't have a budget for this trash service and would that trash service would take. That risk.

H

Is that what you see? Am I saying this right then? What part of the budget.

B

H

B

Mean what are you, what.

H

Is the city paying for that? The customers are not was that personnel again.

G

It doesn't know it all, be it all go back to the household, so this would be cost neutral to the city. The idea would be is.

B

That household, if.

H

It started to go ahead: it's not in the budget right, no.

G

It's still money that's being taken in by the city and that we're expending, and so it's still subject to those contractual terms. Well, yes,.

H

It's the contractual terms, but not no city councilman is going to come along in in in five years and say uh henceforth stop the cat. Stop the trash service. I mean it's a 10-year contract. It's a 10-year contract, there's not a chance that we're going to break the contract after five years right.

A

So can I jump in here for real, quick um and share some of my expertise on on this subject. uh The term that's used is actually a term. That's in taber, which is multi-year fiscal obligation, um and, and so a contract uh with a service provider would be a multi-year fiscal obligation, and a council can't enter into a multi-year fiscal obligation without a vote of the people, unless there is an annual clause in it that allows it to be canceled by subsequent councils.

A

That's my understanding of that process, so either way, whether it's a budget issue or a table issue it it plays in it's a multi-year fiscal obligation that the city would be committing to, and they can't do that unless there's a vote.

H

Okay, well just let me close with that. We have an rfp for five years and the pricing was awful and only two carriers offered pricing, so we have to think what makes it more attractive to bring a more competition and lower the price.

H

So that's why I'm telling you that a 7 to 10 year contract would be beneficial to the overall to those overall goals.

A

That's all we're learning got you. Thank you. Brenda jeff you're next.

F

Yeah my thinking on this was um that again, like we moved before that we have a menu of options as far as the length of the contract, um I think five, seven and ten would be good to be able to see a breakdown there.

F

I don't want to get too lost in the weeds on the appropriations aspect. You know in some remote unforeseen circumstance could counsel not appropriate. Maybe I think it's highly unlikely um to me.

F

If you're going down a you know, any of those lengths deals the really important part of the contract itself, not the rfp, but the contract is termination language to me. If they're not performing the city needs an avenue to terminate or place the hauler in default and apply financial penalties or terminate the contract to me. um I I think that is absolutely key.

F

If we do get to the point of signing a contract here that that be negotiated aggressively with these haulers, because they're going to get the benefit of having an entire municipality to their advantage and sometimes termination, I've had a number of contractual disputes in my work and having the opportunity to default and terminate can keep you honest.

F

So it's rarely executed, but it can be very valuable in negotiating or keeping a contractor. Honest.

A

A

A

Else, brenda, I see your hand raised again.

H

Yeah, I have a question and this is for maria.

H

uh Can we have I I thought the rfp was per number of years. We can't can we have an option of seven five, seven or ten years in our contract or are those separate rsps.

G

I think we can um again, I think it's it's how we write it out.

G

I have talked to the city attorney a little bit about this, and um it's certainly your your purview to you know, go for a longer time period. It's not that we can't do that. um I think it's just then the wording if our intent is to basically get a lower price for a seven or a ten year contract that we'd be clear about that um and then ask them um what the offsetting costs or or consequences are about that. So it might take some more text for them to write in about that, but it's.

G

This is certainly something. I believe that we can do.

H

Right, I imagine, then, if we can do this, we would have they would have like three columns or two columns. You know, please provide all the pricing and the rate structure for a seven year contract and, of course, another column for ten years. That's kind of how I see that being that going.

H

A

Thank you, brenda christine.

D

um I'd like to make a motion, but I would like to see if anyone else has a comment on this. First.

A

I don't see any other hands raised, so go ahead with your motion.

D

Okay, I would like to make a motion that we ask for five, seven and ten year contract lengths in rfb.

F

I'll, second, that.

A

Moved by christine seconded by jeff lorraine, if you would please colorado.

B

Care warren. Yes, remember! Brinker! Yes, remember brown! Yes, remember frasier! Yes, member hubcub!

B

Yes, remember kawanabee! Yes, member late! Yes, it's unanimous.

A

Thank you all right, uh so the next item is annual rate.

G

Increases all right, so we had some discussion about this, so the original rfp, which is pretty standard for the public works um again and for multiple year contracts. I had never heard that term uh chairward um multi-year fiscal obligation. I got it. I had to write that one down so for other contracts where we've entered into multi-year fiscal obligations.

G

We often put in this provision where it's either an x percent annual increase or the consumer price index cpi for the denver, aurora lakewood area. Sorry about that, there's a typo! um This is this consumer price index. If you type this into google for the denver, aurora lakewood area um specifically, then it will come up with a specific number for that cpi.

G

Other metro areas- let's say new york, los angeles houston, have their own cpi, and the idea is that within that geographical area, that this is the way that prices are increasing over the board and therefore represents for that localized area. How much cost of goods and services is going up?

G

So then it defaults to whichever is less so we could default to. Whichever is more. If that's. uh If this truly, the cpi is a more accurate representation of what that their increase is so the the idea is, is that they're paying for labor and resources and materials and therefore they should at least receive that amount of increase per year to cover their costs.

G

um One of the proposers did prefer that the cpi be tied to the waste industry as a whole. So I tried to look that up. That was a little bit more nebulous because there's several cpis uh related to garbage services, garbage hauling um waste hauling. You know you name it, and so it was a little bit if we went that way.

G

I'd want to very be very specific about which one it was and then how we or what website we would look at to determine what that cpi actually was, um so that there was no, you know, negotiation or dispute about. Well, I'm looking at this website you're looking at this website and there's two different numbers there. um One of the proposers also stated that four percent was more appropriate, but they were open to negotiating that point. um So again, you know: how did how do we want to um structure this within the within the rfp?

G

uh Should we make changes to the rates, as I mentioned? Should it be the higher of that one? Should a higher lower percentage be considered?

G

um Should we change the cpi to be a one, not so much location based as an industry based one and I'll turn it back to you to chair ward, I I would just mention as well in relation to the seven and ten year contract again they're going to hedge their bets. um So I don't know if this is the area where they would do that. You know again with a higher base price, knowing that they're going to be limited in terms of what those annual increases are and with that I'll turn it back to trip.

A

So I don't see any answers so I'll. Take this moment to myself. One thing that popped into my.

H

H

Right when he was about to.

G

Say we'll hang out for a minute while he reconnects.

H

So I got this brilliant idea and here it is.

B

D

um After he sets this point, if he comes back on soon um director andrea, I'm going to want to ask if you have a recommendation yourself or preference or one way, you're.

D

B

um Are you back your back? I.

G

Think we lost you, there.

A

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. uh I'm not sure exactly what occurred there. uh So my question was um relative to something like a fuel surcharge which we saw a lot when economic times were problematic and commodities prices were increasing. Would that be included as something or could that be end up being a random charge? That shows up outside of the allowed increase.

G

I I think that would be very helpful to include that the city of golden did that, um so they had some language in there and with the volatility of oil prices. Well, I guess if we have alternate fuels, but I think it wouldn't hurt to put that in there as well, if, if we don't have electrical um or cng vehicles that we make some provision again to reduce their risk, so they don't build up the higher base costs by including that fuel surcharge language.

A

Right, there's kind of a push pull there. I think between having an expected amount of money that your rate can increase, but also having the trash company's ability to ensure continued service when economic conditions.

A

A

D

So maybe the industry specific cpi.

G

I'm sorry remember brinker. I missed that we were there's barking on my hand.

D

Sorry, um let me ask you to enter what, if you had a recommendation, what you would do, or what your preference, or, if you're, leaning a certain way. I.

G

Know I I'm having a hard time answering that um usually we've never gotten any negative feedback, or you know alternate language on this type of language. um So just the fact that they've they've specified this um makes me hesitate a little bit. So I think I would. I think it might be more appropriate to make it the higher of the two as opposed to the lower of the two.

G

So if, if the cpi for the local area is truly, you know five percent, then maybe that's a more accurate reflection than just going with the flat three percent and they could come back and argue and it's like well, you know why. Why did you even give us the option if the cpi truly reflects what is going on in the area, then why are you it's a false option? Basically, so I think I would make that change.

A

Any other comments on this section.

A

C

Yeah, I'm sorry um director d'andrea, I'm not quite sure what you just said. Are you saying that we need to change it to five percent from three percent.

G

No, I think we'd still keep it at three percent or this consumer price index for the local area. But what I would change is that right now, let's say so: actually um we did this just on another contract, the cpi, for the first part of 2020, was 3.7 percent, so we actually um and and that one was written as the higher. So in that case we had three percent or 3.7 percent, which was the cpi, and so we actually allowed them to increase the contract by the 3.7 percent.

G

So that's the change I would make is that, whichever is higher of those two either three percent or the cpi, that's the one that they would be allowed to increase their rates. Fine, so you.

C

G

More accurate, I guess.

C

Okay, so you don't think we can get by with just putting out a flat three percent.

G

I think we we certainly could, um I think, then they'll just hedge their bets on their their initial base prices and make those high enough to account, for you know, any volatility in those in those um future service costs, labor costs material costs. All of that.

C

But would they be able to change the contract like that? I mean if we had a set price.

G

No so they'd and that's what I mean so they'd, let's say and started instead of charging us 15 per month. They mark might charge us at for year, one 18 per month, because they've got to have that three extra dollars to cover their future rate increases because they know they're only going to get three percent on top of that 18 year over year.

C

Okay, thank you for.

G

C

A

You thank you marcia. I see christine again.

D

I think it's I think it's fair to have the cpi in there um I'm just not sure I have a preference yet on location-based cpi versus the industry-based cpi. So I'd be really interested to hear director andre your thoughts on that and the other committee members and.

G

I can certainly do some more research on that too member brinker and and bring that back to you guys. So you have a more accurate picture of like what I saw when I researched that a little bit and maybe what some of those cpis were in relation to the current cpi for the denver lakewood area.

G

So are we talking about a huge difference or a little difference? You know I can do that.

A

All right, jeff.

F

Yeah, I think it might be worthwhile to table this discussion for a future meeting if we have a little bit more information- and you know the only other thing I'm thinking here is it kind of depends on the length of the contract too.

F

What rate increase we're talking about? I'd argue for a lower one for a longer term contract.

F

I've read a lot of you know: private trash hauler contracts and three percent is pretty typical um for, like a one-year term with an auto renewal or even longer than that, from what I've seen at least. But if we were assigned in a 10-year agreement, I'd want to try to knock that down um or tie it to cpi as we've been discussing. So I I guess, I'd move to.

F

I don't I don't think it needs a motion actually, but my preference would be to wait, see figure out as much information as we can get on this and then make an informed decision in the new year.

A

C

Yeah, I just want to say I agree with member fraser. Thank you christine.

D

Same here, and perhaps we could get a sense of what other communities do.

B

H

I agree: we need more information. I've never had this in on the service contracts that I've signed, um and I I think it's like jeff says if it's a 10-year contract and they know they're, going to get that an annual will be a fluctuation in our population at best.

H

But then, if, let's say, if we became more dense well, then they would get more money right or if there was a recession, then they wouldn't and uh suddenly the town emptied out, then they wouldn't have to go to as many homes and thereby they wouldn't have as much labor, I'm not really yet sold on that. We need to um have a such a high cpi, especially if um we're we're going to ask them to not use. um You know uh gas, energy or oil energy.

H

So I don't know.

A

So I think we have enough members in agreement to table this particular item. The annual rate increase to.

A

We'll bring it back next session and make a decision if there's enough information at that point to draw a conclusion, um I am not going to take a vote on that um because I think we have a majority unless anyone wants to object. If you object to that idea, you can go ahead and raise your hand now.

A

No objection so if a vote is required, we'll mark that vote is unanimous. uh The next item is program, opt out provision.

G

All right again just a brief overview of where we were um again. This was a lot of the feedback that we got at. The three open houses was in favor of some sort of opt-out program.

G

You know how we, how we structure that I think was left open, but that they from just a principal standpoint that government should not require people to basically have a monopoly, um so it was included in there as an opt-out that basically allowed households to not participate in the program if they could provide written documentation that they have alternate service from another provider, so that might be an invoice or a service agreement, or something like that, and so obviously that would add to the staff effort to manage that um one of the issues that came out that we knew about going into this is how do we estimate how many people might actually go for that?

G

um I tried to be. I don't know if it was conservative or not that about two and a half percent or 240 out of those 9 600 homes would say: no I'm not going to participate. I don't know if that's high or low, um you know what 240 people go through.

G

The hassle of you know getting a different service provider bringing their or somehow submitting their um bill to the city so that they can prove that they're not in the system, and would it really, as we've talked about before, would that really provide a lower cost at all, and does it ultimately undermine the overall program of how we're trying to reduce vehicles on the street, reduce the number of vehicles, increase safety and reduce emissions?

G

We would have no really no control over whether those people wanted to do recycling or not, um and so that's those are some of the considerations that I think went into this, and so again I think the proposers one of them said um you know no way are we gonna, you know take that burden on that risk.

G

If 500 people decide not to participate in the program, then they're stuck with a lower number of households that they've based their cost estimate on in order to spread out those capital costs, so that one said you, the city has to pay the base fee for all 964 households and then it's up to us how to determine how to allocate those costs back out through the program.

G

So those are some considerations to think about and then, as far as discussion you know, could we should there be an initial one-year period where all households have to participate so that we get basically don't even talk about the opt-out program until year? Two, then we we implement something like that.

G

um That way, each proposal is based on the full 9604 number of households. um So or you know, should we even opt out provision? I guess maybe that's the first question and then, if so, how do we structure that? What kind of again? How can we, by providing some more boundaries around how that program, looks like how do they ensure that their costs are met and are covered so with that I'll turn? It back to ensure that they're.

A

Caught so I seem to be having some connection issues this evening, so if I do drop off again, please accept my apologies ahead of time. uh Jeff. uh You are the first, with your hand, raised.

F

Yeah, I think I think, there's a reasonable middle ground here. Actually um steve was on the prior committee when we were going through the rfp, and we discussed this at some length and we arrived at the idea of an opt-out being available after one year of participation in the program, and I think that is a very reasonable approach here, because it's basically saying you know give us a chance.

F

If you don't like it after one year, you can opt out and choose a private hauler um or a separate hauler. I mean if the goals are to limit the amount of traffic, the amount of emissions, uh the amount of wear and tear on alleys, an opt-out right off the bat to me seems counterproductive.

F

So that would be my preference and it also allows the haulers some.

F

You know certainty to at least know that they have a year of x, number of people and my guess is providing their providing solid service, which I hope they would be because we'd have these new penalties available that weren't available previously, if they weren't doing their job, that people would be satisfied, um if not after a year. I think it's fair for them to opt out, um and but if they do opt out, the one additional item I'd add. Is it's illegal to not have trash service in the city of englewood?

F

I think uh chair ward cited the specific code provision in one of our first or second meetings. um So I do think if someone's going to opt out, they need to provide proof that they do have trash service and aren't just throwing it in their backyard or in their neighbor's trash bin or something.

A

All right, uh marcy, you're next.

C

Yeah, I'm not I'm sorry. I have to disagree with member frazier. um I believe we should let people opt out from the beginning or I think you're going to get a backlash from people. um Some people are not going to be able to afford this they're. Just not, and you have to think about those people and why?

C

Why should I pay more when I only pay 16 a month- and I know everyone has said about less- you know trucks going down the alleys and the roads, but this is a monopoly and people are talking like that and that the city should not have control of our pocketbooks or our finances. We all have different financial status here and, if you're living on a limited income, those people are going to be upset.

C

So I think- and I don't know how to frame this- but no I I believe you should have an opt-out program right away, it's a monopoly and then again, once again, I'm sorry to repeat myself but you're messing around with people's finances. People who cannot afford this. I can't stress that enough to all committee members here, so I cannot go along with one year and then you're allowed to opt out, because I don't think it's fair to people. I just.

A

Don't thank you. Marcy uh dane you're next.

I

Yeah, I just wanted to say that I actually agree with member frasier. I think we need to have an opt-out, but I think we need to need to have everybody have a trial period.

I

I think it's important that people give it a chance, and one of the things that we're trying to do is actually make this affordable to our city residents and one of the things that will give us a good price to be able to keep this affordable is actually keeping a number of participants up and actually showing to the public and also to whoever the providers might be that we are willing to um give them a chance to make this right to also make it affordable and useful, and um and if they don't prove themselves then then they deserve to be opted out from.

I

But I think especially if we have good enforcement of penalties for um poor pickup or for other infractions that they might have in terms of customer service. I think we're more likely to have more people stay than not.

I

um I definitely understand marcy's point about making things affordable for people and I think that that's what we're trying to do by doing this right by looking at these longer options and one of the great things about it is- we can hopefully bring the price down enough that you know, hopefully we can beat her 16 a month.

I

I think that that's reasonable, so I guess that's all for me.

A

Thank you, uh kanji.

E

Yeah I agree with jeff as well, um but marcy does bring up an important point. I think it's uh a one good one to remind ourselves that we also want to build in a support system for those folks that can't afford it, and so um it just would be a point to keep in mind of the the um assisted services that we'll be creating for that one.

E

The other thing that I wanted to bring up is the evidence of an additional hauler should be on a cadence one year as well, just so that we don't get somebody that just does it for a year and then decides to dump their trash in their neighbors trash.

A

Thank you, uh jeff.

F

All right um yeah, just I was going to mention that kanji kind of took the words out of my mouth on the affordability piece. I think it's really important here that we um build in some mechanism for low-income individuals, which I think can would include seniors, who can document their income in one way or another for assistance via the penalties of this program, um and the intention here is absolutely to get the best price available.

F

That's uh the benefit we have of negotiating these agreements as a entire municipality, so I I kind of reject the premise that this is obviously going to cost more. As member brown was mentioned um previously, you know you, I mean you pay your water bill.

F

It's you're required to have trash service under the englewood code, so you'd pay a trash bill um on the monopoly point. I just don't think that's accurate. This is a competitive bid process that is the opposite of a monopoly.

A

Thanks jeff mercy.

C

Well, I see it differently. Sorry, but I do um you can control your water bill by not using much water. You will not be able to control this bill and where do we draw the line I mean on who gets what here? As far as I mean what what would be the amount of money a person could earn a month where you get a break, I mean, is it twelve hundred dollars a month? Is it fifteen hundred and then you take into consideration single people with children?

C

I mean I just am against this whole thing about you not being able to opt out for the first year.

C

I mean I I I don't know what else to say. I mean I don't. I do think it is a monopoly. How can it not be yes, we're getting competitive bids but you're telling people what they have to pay and people don't like that anymore. They've seen the great the high rates of water that the council continues to push on us and then they're going to see. Oh now, you know it's going to go up, 3 plus or whatever we decide, plus an administrative fee, plus we're hiring two people full-time plus, a part-time person.

C

I mean it makes no sense to me, and I think that maybe I mean is there any way we can take a I don't. I don't know exactly which, how you would do this, but maybe take ask all citizens if they wish to opt in or opt out, then you would have a base for how many people want to opt out and again like. Where do you draw the line on low income? What what is your definition of low income?

C

You know where we could get assistance? What is your definition? How much do they have to make or how much do they not have to make.

F

That's a line item on the agenda to be discussed shortly.

C

A

Thank you, marcy. Does anyone have anything to add to this section.

F

I'd like to make a motion, if, if possible,.

A

uh Yeah go ahead, jeff.

F

I would make a motion to make an opt-out available after one year of participation in the single hauler program, provided that annual documentation of active trash hauling service is provided by those opting out.

A

E

I'll, second, that.

A

Was that you kanji, it was.

E

A

So jeff has the motion seconded by kanji, uh lorraine. Would you please call the roll.

B

A

B

B

B

Remember borman!

B

Yes, member brinker! Yes, remember brown! No, remember frasier! Yes, number hapka! Yes, number kawanabi! Yes, remember laid! Yes,.

B

Seven yeses and one no.

A

All right that passes- and that brings us to our next item- uh I see annual increases to contract pricing, but I believe we already tabled that. So uh if we could go with customer service protocol.

D

Can I can I bring up a related issue before we move on.

A

Yes, absolutely.

D

Thanks, um I feel like uh one reason, and probably the top reason that people will opt out is because they found a lower price elsewhere, and perhaps it's a company that has more operational efficiencies or perhaps a loss leader or predatory pricing, or perhaps they have a reduction in service, and I do not think that that reduction in service should include eliminating recycling.

D

I strongly believe it's our responsibility to recycle, just like we all teach our kids that they can't just leave their mess around for others to clean up. We can't just leave our waist for our kids grandkids great grandkids to clean up, uh because at the moment we have a trash crisis. We have items that have been around for tens of thousands of years and every day we're adding more.

D

So. um The the reason I bring this up is because I would like to make a motion that, in order to opt out, you provide proof of both trash and recycling from another licensed hauler. I know there's going to be strong feelings about that, but I feel strongly about that as well.

H

Well, how are we going to pro, how are they who's going to enforce that? How are we going to enforce that.

B

I guess you opt out here.

B

A

To that, but right now there's a motion on the table uh for uh if I heard correctly a requirement that any opt out uh prove that they have trash as well as recycling. How are you going.

C

To prove that, I don't even understand that.

A

Yeah that question was already asked we're going to handle the motion on the table. First, uh the. How is not relevant here. What we are dealing with is the what.

E

I second that this is kanji.

A

So the motion's been introduced by christine and seconded by kanji lorraine. Would you please call the vote.

B

A

B

I

B

Member brinker, yes, remember brown, no, remember frasier.

F

Struggling on this one abstain.

B

Remember: hapka no remember kawanabe.

E

B

B

Yes, four yeses three no's and one abstain.

A

A

A

uh Is there anything remaining to be contributed on the opt out before we move on.

A

All right, we'll move on into customer service protocol, maria.

G

There are two hands up: chairward.

A

I'm sorry I I did not see any hands at the time that I called that. I see one hand marcy.

C

Again, I'm just going to ask maybe director d'andrea: where do you draw the line at low income, maria.

B

C

How do we, you know kind of form that or I'm losing my words tonight, but I'm trying to figure out? Where does that income lie? I mean.

A

Yeah so before you answer that maria marcy, uh as member fraser pointed out earlier, that is actually an agenda item that we will be discussing later.

C

Oh, I apologize.

G

Yeah, it's not on tonight uh member brown, but in a future agenda we'll be talking about that.

C

Okay, because I didn't see it on the agenda tonight- that's why I keep asking so I'm sorry.

G

No you're fine.

A

6C under rfp elements. The third item is senior citizen, slash low income program.

A

Alright does anyone else have anything to add.

A

Marcy, I see your hand is still up. Oh.

C

I'll bring it down lowering.

A

All right we'll try this one more time. Customer service protocol.

G

All right, I apologize in advance the dog's kind of going nuts, um so we talked quite a bit if you recall a few meetings ago. We went through all those customer service items and the penalties, and it sounded like there was general consensus from the committee that those were pretty good and that the dollar amounts seemed reasonable or in line with what they should be. um You know some of those items I just wanted to double check on this.

G

You know: are we on the right track in terms of how they provide customer service, and I think the specific will be. You know how we, how they respond to customer calls. um I know I believe it might have been member brinker brought up. You know not having necessarily always with uh just a phone call, but is there an online chat option? Do we want to include that?

G

um What is at the way I wrote it in the rfp with that there was, they had to respond to customer calls during normal office hours, but there was no specific time period of how long if they left a voicemail, how long they had to get back to them, um how they needed to document and track customer issues. But I don't believe there was a timeline. I know there wasn't a timeline for how quickly they had to resolve that. So is that maybe 48 hours or two or three business days, something like that.

G

So we could get into um maybe putting some parameters again around some of these terms just to make sure that we're getting the service that we want. So that was led to some of these questions. Should there be specific time periods for them to? You know, pick up within a certain number of rings or responding to emails.

G

That sort of thing. How do we monitor that? So in my previous position we had to rely on them because unless there was a word of mouth feedback from a citizen, there was no way for us to monitor that. You know they. So the citizen could call up to the city and say I spent you know.

G

I was on the line for five minutes before somebody picked up my call, or it took three business days to do this, so we're really relying on the company to monitor that to tell us when those calls are coming in and how quickly they're getting back to people. So we have to kind of trust them and then um how do we respond to after our calls?

G

What is the protocol around that and what does really resolution mean so not only calling them back, but does the issue get resolved to the satisfaction of the citizen, and is that a survey um you know I don't know so those are some of the things to consider. You know what other options are out there in terms of technology that we could potentially utilize to get a better handle on this. So again, I'll turn this back over to you chairward for discussion.

A

This is a big one, I'm not sure we're going to get through this uh by the end of this meeting, but brenda has your hand raised uh brenda, go ahead.

H

Yeah just a question: first, I just want to clarify that um we all we will have city personnel. uh You know hired for this, so is. Is this for uh our vendor and the city, or are we directing all our uh customer inquiries only to the vendor?

H

What what are we? What is the and then? The second point I would make is: what do other cities do for a service level agreement? um Do they require emails are? Are we are these companies even set up for chat?

H

You know, most muslim are just a phone, so you're right, it's a very horny subject, but I I'd like to see what other cities do for a service level agreement as part of their rfc and I'm also yeah a bit confused. Maybe maria you can clear this up. um If, if uh the city offices will be doing any, what, if you're doing any customer handling and if they're you, if or are you trying to reach out to the vendors and you and your in the city uh wants these guarantees, you clarify.

G

H

G

Yeah I'll start with that, one brenda um to answer that so in the previous cities that I've worked with or worked for, um the garbage, the the hauler is responsible for taking those calls and resolving them, and our goal is to try and eliminate the middleman so that they don't have to call the city first because we're just turning around and then basically conveying that same information to the hauler.

G

So a lot of the the documentation and the the information that's sent out has their either website or their phone number direct to their customer service center. Very prominent on all of those materials. However, we know that we will get calls because people either just again don't read that or they don't. They just assume that it's a city program, so they're going to call the city first or they want us to intervene on their behalf and not have to deal with the hauler.

G

So we do get a number of phone calls, and so what we've done in the past is use tracking lists to resolve issues and pass those on and basically but what's happening. Is that the administrator or somebody who's? Taking those phone calls at the city just turns around calls that same phone number at the waste hauler and conveys that same information, and then they enter it into their system as far as other.

G

What what I read in other proposals from other cities- theirs was much less robust, so the penalty stuff that I wrote was was much more stringent, much more detailed than anybody else had and I can I'll go back and check. But I don't think anybody had any. You know like you have to respond within two business days or anything like that, but I'll I'll double check that it does not ring a bell.

A

uh Brenda did you have anything to add your hand is still raised.

H

Oh well and lauren, maybe we need to review I and so that we can um what you put up there again maria. So then we can, um you know, agree with it or you know change it, but um I don't remember having any problems with um what you put out I'll just leave it at that.

G

And if you read their, if you read their proposals, you know they all pride themselves on customer service um and getting back to people quickly.

G

I think the the again those in in or what do you call them the comments that we got through the both the survey process and the meetings was that, oh, I wait forever or I get transferred to a a call center in arizona and they don't know anything about what's going on in englewood colorado and they can't service my account or they're doing it wrong, and, and so it's, how do we overcome that and make that a best, better experience for our customers? If we were to move forward, I know um in a previous job.

G

I had also tried to specify that they have a local calling center here, at least in colorado, and that they will not provide that so they've got their their network established, whether that be in arizona or wherever, and so it's we're really at their mercy to try and then have a better script about when somebody calls from englewood. How does that customer service representative look up the specifics of our program? Our contract and respond effectively to that that citizen's.

G

A

Hearing you, if you're.

D

Talking, who did you call, and I didn't hear.

A

uh Remember brown marcy.

C

I was just if I'm understanding you director, d'andrea you're, saying that say we have a problem with our trash you're saying it goes through the city and then from these employees we're hiring and then they call up the trash hauler.

C

I'm sorry is that what you said it.

G

Could go either way. We'd probably have you just in terms of time. It would be better for you to call the hauler directly. So then you're telling them in your own words what the issue is, um but we know for a fact that people don't always want to do that. So we would also be set up to take those calls at the city and then just simply turn around and pass them on to the waste hauler.

C

I guess that just kind of sounds repetitive a little bit to me and then what maybe this isn't on topic. But what are the duties of the people? We're hiring.

G

Yeah, so that's more will have to do with billing issues: okay, because we're gonna we're gonna, take that piece as well as overall management of the contract. So let's say you know, negotiating these points well, they'll be negotiated, but talking with them on a regular basis, resolving issues at that high level as opposed to individual homeowners that hopefully, if, but if things get elevated, where you don't get resolution, let's say.

G

Okay, that there's somebody.

E

E

Did we lose the director.

C

It looks like it.

G

Oh I'm still here, but I can tell I'm having uh connection issues so I apologize if I drop off. I can hear you guys, though,.

A

I blame zoom, it's zoom's fault.

A

All right, uh christine you're next.

D

um So if the customer service requested complaints first go to the provider, I would probably like to see email and chat support on both their app and website. I don't think a phone number these days will cut it and I think, if vice chair green, were here tonight, he would also bring up his previous request for a very simple form that someone could fill out to say, for instance, missed pickup. Here's my address and I think that that's reasonable as well.

A

Thank you, uh jeff you're. Next.

F

Totally agree with that, um and just one touch on kind of what I would view as the benefits of the um the city line. You know in the event, you need to escalate a customer service issue. I kind of would view the city's role here as a consumer advocate. Basically, because the city would be the party that is contracting with the waste hauler and in that contract we could build in certain obligations in the event of a consumer complaint.

F

For instance, the trash hauler has to produce call logs or has to produce chat records documenting their due diligence efforts to respond to a consumer complaint, and if they fail to do so, the penalty is x.

F

um So I think that's an extra layer of consumer protection that simply doesn't exist now and that's one of the huge benefits of potentially going with a single trash hauler. Here. I do think that would have to be thought through um pretty extensively in the contract itself, but um simple document production could could go a long way by having a mechanism in order to okay. You say you responded to them in 48 hours. Show me the call logs um things like that, which a individual consumer contracting with one of these large companies can't do now.

A

Thanks, jeff and I'll just uh weigh in here I I definitely support the city having a role of some sort in the customer service process, whether it's dealing with escalated complaints or even taking the first line uh phone calls.

A

Just by way of example, I had an issue with one of the services that is provided by my employer and I paid the company for this service and it the rate that I pay is set by my employer. So it's a relationship very similar to the one that we're talking about now and I called the company over and over and over again I wrote them a letter.

A

I escalated to management and I was not getting any movement until I got a hold of the person who maintains the contract for my employer and less than 48 hours. I had the service that I was demanding so there's often a large difference between a company dealing with an individual consumer and a company dealing with the person who decides whether or not they get to keep the.

A

Contract uh jeff, your hand is uh raised. Did you have something to add.

F

Negative, I'm my brain just stops working at this point.

A

Yeah we're about 10 minutes away from the end of our meeting, and I I think this might be a good place to pick back up uh next week. um If anybody has anything to add uh currently to this. One item uh feel free to raise your hand.

A

E

Yeah sorry, real quick. I just wanted to be explicit about what christine was saying. We should add in specifics about the mediums of which somebody can call in for this customer support. Apps on the phone, I think, are definitely the way of the future and then not to solution too far director, but we could build in a form of did you contact the servicer right and then in line that put those in line items to mitigate against those extraneous calls and dealings with that but steve. I love your stories about that.

E

I think it's super helpful to know that that advocate is is helpful. That's it thanks.

A

All right! uh Well, unless there's an objection from the committee, I think uh we went over last week, our last session. We might in this one uh just about 10 minutes early. I think we're at a good stopping point.

A

A

G

Okay, do you want to confirm our next meeting steve? I don't know if everybody's going to be available on the 28th.

F

I would opt that we do not meet over the next two weeks and and wait until january to meet if others agree given the holidays, and I think we've been doing some really good work over the last month and a half or two meeting every two weeks here.

E

I'd agree with that.

A

I agree, I agree.

A

If we skip the meeting that would have been scheduled for the 28th, then we have the option of uh going to a schedule that starts on the 4th of january or just having a month between meetings on january 11th. The latter would be the option that I would support, which would be to make our next meeting on the 11th just because that would be well after the holidays, and I think everybody would have a nice chance to rest for the next month.

E

That puts us on the right, cadence right! Isn't there another meeting, that's that we were trying to offset.

A

Yes, it would put us on study session nights unless I'm correct on that.

E

I'd agree with you, then.

A

C

I'm sorry did you say there was a study session or council. Are you saying, study session on the 11th steve? I'm sorry.

A

Yeah, that's my understanding. When we first started meeting bi-weekly, we made a point to meet on study session nights rather than regular council meeting nights right.

C

I I would agree with the 11th, then.

A

All right, maria.

G

um I do have an item that night on study session agenda, so I will have to be off for about probably half an hour or so.

A

I think we could get along uh okay on that.

A

Does anyone else have anything else to bring? We will set our next meeting for january 11th, monday january 11th, and we will continue the agenda at that point, uh we'll back up on the agenda and cover composting and green waste uh when vice chair green is able to be with us and then we will move right into the customer service protocol. So if everybody comes ready to discuss those items and uh the remainder of what was on the agenda here, we will do well.

D

I would like to make a motion that we all have happy holidays.

F

Second- and it won't be 2020 anymore, the next time we meet, which is amazing,.

A

Thank you, everybody I'm going to go ahead and declare this meeting adjourned have a good night.

F

Merry christmas happy holidays.

A

E

F

I

Merry christmas, everybody happy holidays.

H